Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >> "Ben" == Ben Discoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >Ben> Wow. I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache >Ben> _inside_ Cygwin. The Apache website directs Windows people >Ben> to just install and run, so the alternate route is not well >Ben> known. > >You might want to just take a look at the list of stuff that Cygwin's >setup.exe supports. I imagine Apache (some version) is on the list. Absolutely. I run Cygwin Apache 1.3.29, and 1.3.33 and 2.0.54 are also available. As I said earlier, this is only for testing and only accessible locally. I don't think I'd want to run any MS-Windows server exposed to the world, Cygwin or native. >>> Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a >>> mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a >>> different port. > >Ben> Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is >Ben> the right direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from >Ben> Cygwin itself. > >No, the trouble stems from mixing different models of security and >other OS services. While Cygwin is a big PIMA, too, there's no doubt >in my mind that people who are using Cygwin for one app are better off >using it for apps that cooperate with the first, too. I do know of a >few exceptions, but they are all out-and-out bugs in the helper >applications. I totally agree with Stephen here. I'm surprised that Windows Apache can even execute the Cygwin compiled cgi-bin wrappers and Python at all. If I try to run a Cygwin compiled and linked program of any sort from a Windows command shell or even directly from Start->run, I get a fatal error dialog "The procedure entry point __getreent could not be located in the dynamic link library cygwin1.dll." Anyway, that part seems to work in your case, surprising or not. As Stephen says, mixing different security/protection models in one system is asking for trouble. Mailman is designed to run in a POSIX compliant or similar environment. Cygwin has its problems, but it is the closest thing to that environment that exists on Windows. Further, the only successful (albeit, perhaps limited) installations of Mailman on windows that we know of are under Cygwin. It may be possible to get Mailman to run in a Windows environment without Cygwin, and it may be valuable to you (Ben) and to others, but you're on your own in uncharted waters. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
> "Ben" == Ben Discoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ben> Wow. I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache Ben> _inside_ Cygwin. The Apache website directs Windows people Ben> to just install and run, so the alternate route is not well Ben> known. You might want to just take a look at the list of stuff that Cygwin's setup.exe supports. I imagine Apache (some version) is on the list. >> Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a >> mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a >> different port. Ben> Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is Ben> the right direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from Ben> Cygwin itself. No, the trouble stems from mixing different models of security and other OS services. While Cygwin is a big PIMA, too, there's no doubt in my mind that people who are using Cygwin for one app are better off using it for apps that cooperate with the first, too. I do know of a few exceptions, but they are all out-and-out bugs in the helper applications. -- School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of TsukubaTennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Hi Mark, > >Right. Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of > >Cygwin (or more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs > >inside it :) > > This is the first time you mentioned Apache doesn't run under > Cygwin. I'm sure this adds a serious complication. Wow. I had no idea at all that it was possible to run Apache _inside_ Cygwin. The Apache website directs Windows people to just install and run, so the alternate route is not well known. > If you can make the mailman files all > belong to the group that Cygwin sees Apache as (we > think that's Administrators) it should work. Alas, experience seems to indicate that I cannot make them belong that way. Sometimes it's Adminstrators, but generally it's None. > think you can get around this by either > not using command line tools or possibly creating a user who > is a member of ONLY the Administrators group to run them or > by changing the group on files after the fact. I've tried several users (e.g. Ben) which is a member of ONLY the Administrators group (both in Windows and /etc/passwd), and yet it produces files with 660 permissions and e.g. Ben.None ownership. C'est la Cygwin. > Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a > mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a > different port. Arrgh, it's hard to imagine that moving _closer_ to Cygwin is the right direction, when all the trouble seems to stem from Cygwin itself. In any case, I have found a solution of sorts! It requires giving up the web interface, which is unfortunate but I can live with it. It turns out that Exim itself is perfectly capable of processing simple mailing lists (http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.10/doc/html/spec_41.html) including open, closed, and announcement-only lists. I basically pasted a few lines from that Exim documentation into my exim.conf, did some tweaking, and I've got several mailing lists functional! Someday, somebody will write a portable, open-source MLM that doesn't fundamentally require Unixy permissions, and ideally doesn't require command-line fiddling or hacks like Cygwin either. As much as I am drawn to the challenge, I fear it won't be me. I wish best of luck to y'all in the Mailman community, and thanks for helping out on my trip down this particular rabbit hole. -Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: >Right. Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of Cygwin (or >more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs inside it :) although >Apache is simply executing a binary which is built and runs inside >Cygwin, so that must not be it. This is the first time you mentioned Apache doesn't run under Cygwin. I'm sure this adds a serious complication. Apache is executing Python under Cygwin and Cygwin is enforcing permissions on files based on user/group/other permissions. Mailman is designed to be run under a specific group and all access is based on that group. If you can make the mailman files all belong to the group that Cygwin sees Apache as (we think that's Administrators) it should work. So far, the problems I think you've had when you tried this are that when you use command line tools, files wind up in other groups, but I think you can get around this by either not using command line tools or possibly creating a user who is a member of ONLY the Administrators group to run them or by changing the group on files after the fact. >Perhaps the only real solution here is to port (fork) Mailman from >Cygwin to native Win32. I can't even imagine what kind of work that >would entail. I'm have to become far more python-savvy before the end, >no doubt. This would be difficult. Not the Python so much as the C wrappers which expect a Unix like environment, and you'd still have the security issues to deal with. Maybe the solution is to run Apache under Cygwin or run a mailman only version of Apache under Cygwin that listens on a different port. >I'm beginning to wonder how on earth Cygwin fakes the group id for >files. Apparently there's nowhere to store it in Windows, so if Cygwin >encounteres a file it didn't create, it must just guess. I think that's right, but I don't know enough to be sure. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: > >You mentioned that you _have_ seen it work with user 'Mark' and group >'None'. Do you have any record of what you passed to ./configure in >this case? Yes, but it won't help you because I run Apache under Cygwin, also as user Mark and group None. This comes out of a shell script that sets $prefix earlier ./configure --prefix=$prefix --with-username=Mark --with-groupname=None --with-cgi-gid=None --with-mail-gid=None --with-mailhost=localhost --with-urlhost=localhost make install > make.log -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Mark, > Well, apparantly Apache runs as group Administrators, so I'm > guessing that when Apache creates files, they will be created > with group Administrators. Right. Perhaps the trouble is that Apache runs outside of Cygwin (or more precisely, the trouble is that Mailman runs inside it :) although Apache is simply executing a binary which is built and runs inside Cygwin, so that must not be it. Perhaps the only real solution here is to port (fork) Mailman from Cygwin to native Win32. I can't even imagine what kind of work that would entail. I'm have to become far more python-savvy before the end, no doubt. > >> Apache is running as a service presumably in > >> the Administrators group so everything has to be in the > >> Administrators group for things to work. > > >Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is > >running in the Administrators group. > > Oh but I think it does, that's why it can't access the group > None files. I'm beginning to wonder how on earth Cygwin fakes the group id for files. Apparently there's nowhere to store it in Windows, so if Cygwin encounteres a file it didn't create, it must just guess. -Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Mark, > Aha! Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround! I > will try re-configure and re-install with > "--with-mail-gid=None --with-cgi-gid=None > --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further. To continue the story. I tried this, and web access produced the error that Apache is running it from group "Administrators", not "None". So next, I tried: ./configure --with-mail-gid=None --with-cgi-gid=Administrators --with-groupname=None Not much better results. Using "addlist" does seem to succeed. Attempting the web interface now gives the classic: "We're sorry, we hit a bug! [...] the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs." However, this time there is no error log; /usr/local/mailman/logs is empty. I don't know if we've exhausted all possible combinations of mail-gid, cgi-gid, and groupname, but it sure feels elusive. You mentioned that you _have_ seen it work with user 'Mark' and group 'None'. Do you have any record of what you passed to ./configure in this case? Thanks, Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: >> Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None >> so everything is in the None group, and it works. > >Aha! Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround! I will try >re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None >--with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further. >I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions, >which will cause other parts of the code to fail.. That's just going to put you back where you started with the wrapper being invoked as group Administrators and expecting group None. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: >> >> But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from >> group Ben >> and >> group mailman > >I get "bash: group: command not found" Sorry, that should have been groups, not group >Now i tried setting mmsitepass, and giving the same value in the web >create inteface. That got past the authorization message, and now says >"Error: Unknown virtual host: localhost". So you either need to visit the web page using whatever your DEFAULT_URL_HOST is or set VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py. >Since Cygwin regularly sets group to 'None', I think this isn't going to >work. AFAICT there is no real "None" group, it is a pseudo-group >created my Cygwin's "mkgroup" and "mkpasswd" commands. I had been >getting around it by manually fixing the group IDs in the /etc/passwd >file, to force user 'mailman' into the 'Administrators' group to match >the reality in Windows, but apparently that is not sufficient to really >convince Cygwin. Well, apparantly Apache runs as group Administrators, so I'm guessing that when Apache creates files, they will be created with group Administrators. >> Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None >> so everything is in the None group, and it works. > >Aha! Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround! I will try >re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None >--with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further. >I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions, >which will cause other parts of the code to fail.. > >> Apache is running as a service presumably in >> the Administrators group so everything has to be in the >> Administrators group for things to work. > >Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is running >in the Administrators group. Oh but I think it does, that's why it can't access the group None files. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
> >So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, > >mailman _is_ in the Administrators group. > > But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from > group Ben > and > group mailman I get "bash: group: command not found" > If they are in more than one group, I think files they create > will be assigned to the first group they belong to. Files they create are apparently assigned to group "None" in most cases. (I find that if I use "touch" to create a dummy file, it gets the right Group owner, but almost all other cases result in "None".) > >> or create the list via the web create interface. > > > >Tried that too. I get an web page stating "Error: You are not > >authorized to create new mailing lists." > > And what did you use for the password? It must be the site > password or the list creator password set by bin/mmsitepass. I tried everything I could think of: the passwords for 'Ben' account, for the 'mailman' account, for the 'Administrator' account, empty password, list password. No matter what I tried, it says "Error: You are not authorized." Now i tried setting mmsitepass, and giving the same value in the web create inteface. That got past the authorization message, and now says "Error: Unknown virtual host: localhost". > >But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from > >Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right? > > Well, actually it expects to be run in the mailman group > which in your case is the Administrators group. Any files it > creates have to be group owned by Administrators. Since Cygwin regularly sets group to 'None', I think this isn't going to work. AFAICT there is no real "None" group, it is a pseudo-group created my Cygwin's "mkgroup" and "mkpasswd" commands. I had been getting around it by manually fixing the group IDs in the /etc/passwd file, to force user 'mailman' into the 'Administrators' group to match the reality in Windows, but apparently that is not sufficient to really convince Cygwin. > Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None > so everything is in the None group, and it works. Aha! Well, maybe that's the only functional workaround! I will try re-configure and re-install with "--with-mail-gid=None --with-cgi-gid=None --with-groupname=None" and see if it gets further. I suspect, though, that it will still create files with 660 permissions, which will cause other parts of the code to fail.. > Apache is running as a service presumably in > the Administrators group so everything has to be in the > Administrators group for things to work. Right, although Cygwin doesn't fully realize that the service is running in the Administrators group. > BTW, did you run bin/check_perms after reconfiguring with > --with-groupname=Administrators? I did, with -f so that it would fix everything up. Unfortunately it doesn't avoid the 660 and 'None' problems. If we finally get through this, I promise to make up a FAQ entry that really works, unlike the really wrong/outdated one in FAQ entry 5.2. -Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: >>The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for >>setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds >>of things that Mailman assumes about its environment. >> >> > >Yes, that's clear :) The question remaining is, is there any hope of >getting around it :( > > Yes, edit the file src/common.c and comment out the fatal returns in check_caller() However, you're on your own, defeating security checks, especially on windows, is an invitation to be a very unhappy camper someday. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: >> You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the >> Administrators group, not as Ben in group None. > >User 'Ben' and 'mailman' are both in the Administrators group. It is >cygwin that decides to display "None" as the file's group owner. I >assume this is just a limitation of Cygwin. Maybe it is. The point is that in order for this to work, everything must be in the same group that Apache is running as. >On the Windows side (Manage: Users), I have users like this: > Ben, member of Administrators > mailman, member of Administrators > >In /etc/group, I have: > Administrators:S-1-5-32-544:544: > >In /etc/passwd: > Ben:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1004:544:... > mailman:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1010:544:... > >So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, mailman _is_ >in the Administrators group. > But that clearly isn't what's happening. What do you get from group Ben and group mailman If they are in more than one group, I think files they create will be assigned to the first group they belong to. >Next, I tried running bin/netlist as mailman, as you suggest. This >gives the error: > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 40, in _makedir >os.makedirs(path, 02775) > File "/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py", line 159, in makedirs >mkdir(name, mode) >OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends' > >Next I tried 'chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists' >then tried again to add the list as 'mailman', which gives a different >error: > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write >fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/mailman/locks/_site_.lock.Lit >tleGuy.4260.0' So the locks/ directory doesn't have permission for user mailman and whatever group it runs as. See below >> or create the list via the web create interface. > >Tried that too. I get an web page stating "Error: You are not >authorized to create new mailing lists." And what did you use for the password? It must be the site password or the list creator password set by bin/mmsitepass. If you used one of these, and it didn't work then it's probably permissions on data/adm.pw or data/creator.pw. >> > As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the >> > owner/group, which is causing Mailman to choke. >> > I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' >> > uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman >> > will subsequently refuse to read. >> >> Because it expects to be run as the mailman user. > >But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from >Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right? Well, actually it expects to be run in the mailman group which in your case is the Administrators group. Any files it creates have to be group owned by Administrators. >> The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for >> setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds >> of things that Mailman assumes about its environment. > >Yes, that's clear :) The question remaining is, is there any hope of >getting around it :( Well, in my case, everything runs as user Mark and group None so everything is in the None group, and it works. In your case at least Apache is running as a service presumably in the Administrators group so everything has to be in the Administrators group for things to work. Try cd to the 'prefix' directory, and chgrp -R Administrators . or maybe better chown -R mailman:Administrators . Then the web stuff should work. BTW, did you run bin/check_perms after reconfiguring with --with-groupname=Administrators? -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
> You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the > Administrators group, not as Ben in group None. User 'Ben' and 'mailman' are both in the Administrators group. It is cygwin that decides to display "None" as the file's group owner. I assume this is just a limitation of Cygwin. On the Windows side (Manage: Users), I have users like this: Ben, member of Administrators mailman, member of Administrators In /etc/group, I have: Administrators:S-1-5-32-544:544: In /etc/passwd: Ben:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1004:544:... mailman:unused_by_nt/2000/xp:1010:544:... So, as far as both Windows and Cygwin should be concerned, mailman _is_ in the Administrators group. Next, I tried running bin/netlist as mailman, as you suggest. This gives the error: File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Site.py", line 40, in _makedir os.makedirs(path, 02775) File "/usr/lib/python2.4/os.py", line 159, in makedirs mkdir(name, mode) OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends' Next I tried 'chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists' then tried again to add the list as 'mailman', which gives a different error: File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/locks/_site_.lock.Lit tleGuy.4260.0' > or create the list via the web create interface. Tried that too. I get an web page stating "Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists." > > As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the > > owner/group, which is causing Mailman to choke. > > I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' > > uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman > > will subsequently refuse to read. > > Because it expects to be run as the mailman user. But, it won't be run as the 'mailman' user when it's invoked from Apache, so that assumption will surely fail, right? > The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for > setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds > of things that Mailman assumes about its environment. Yes, that's clear :) The question remaining is, is there any hope of getting around it :( Thanks, Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: > >I have tried this. However, I get the exact same error as before: > >admin(704): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591, >in __load >admin(704): fp = open(dbfile) >admin(704): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck' > >I have attached the whole error log in case it helps. I don't need it. >The "config.pck" file exists, and it has 660 permissions: > -rw-rw 1 Ben None 3607 Dec 22 12:10 config.pck You need to run bin/newlist as mailman or some user in the Administrators group, not as Ben in group None. Either that or do chown -R mailman:Administrators /usr/local/mailman/lists/friends after creating the list, or creat the list via the web create interface. >As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the owner/group, which is >causing Mailman to choke. I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' >uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman will >subsequently refuse to read. Because it expects to be run as the mailman user. And because Mailman's security scheme is based on group permission and exclusion of other. The underlying problem here is Windows lack of support for setting effective user and group ids. This breaks all kinds of things that Mailman assumes about its environment. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Mark, Thanks very much for continuing to try to help.. > >I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 > >config.pck', and that made the Admin page work. So, the > >"660" permissions are the problem, not the owner/group. > >This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin - > >permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily. > Here's how you can make it work. > From your previous posts, I think your web server runs in the > Administrators group. What are you running as a mail server? > I use Exim under Cygwin and that works well and integrates > well with Mailman. I run exim too, and it works fine. Getting mailman to talk to exim is a step I haven't even gotten to yet, so far I am just trying to get Mailman to create a list. > you need to make your > mailman user a member of the Administrators group, not mm, > and reconfigure Mailman with --with-groupname, --with-cgi-gid > and --with-mail-gid all equal to Administrators. Then > reinstall with 'make install' and run 'bin/check_perms -f' to > make sure things are OK. I have tried this. However, I get the exact same error as before: admin(704): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591, in __load admin(704): fp = open(dbfile) admin(704): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck' I have attached the whole error log in case it helps. The "config.pck" file exists, and it has 660 permissions: -rw-rw 1 Ben None 3607 Dec 22 12:10 config.pck As before, it is the 660 permission bits, not the owner/group, which is causing Mailman to choke. I can't understand why Mailman's 'newlist' uses this permission mask to create files which Mailman will subsequently refuse to read. Any other ideas? Thanks, Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: > >I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 config.pck', and >that made the Admin page work. So, the "660" permissions are the >problem, not the owner/group. However, when I tried the Admin page for >the list, I got "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" again: > >admin(4088): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512, >in __save >admin(4088): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') >admin(4088): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: >'/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck.tmp.LittleGuy.4088' > >This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin - >permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily. I >don't blame Mailman, I'm sure it's reasonable for it to expect >permissions to behave they way they should. > >However, at this point I'm wondering whether the Mailman + Cygwin >combination is workable. The Mailman website, Manual and FAQ reasonably >state that Mailman "does not currently work on Windows" and "some >source-code level changes are currently necessary to get Mailman working >under Cygwin" and "It probably does not work on Windows, although it's >possible you could get it running on a Cygwin system." I think the above is a fair summary of the issue. I do have *test* mailman installs under Cygwin that work, but they are not accessable to the outside world. I don't know if it is possible to actually run Mailman in a secure way on a public server, because Mailman's security is based on SETGID wrappers, and I don't think SETGID actually works under Cygwin. >This makes me sad, as I had high hopes, as I cannot find any real >alternative to Mailman in the Windows world, neither free nor >commercial. All I wanted to do was to create a small mailing list on a >plain XP box, but it's become a week-long ordeal ending in frustration. > >I'm wide open to advice, although I suspect "Get a Linux machine" is the >likely response :( (I do have a Linux box, but this XP box is the >quiet, low-power always-on server machine in our office which runs our >website with Apache wonderfully, hence that's where I must install a >mailing list.) Here's how you can make it work. CAVEAT!! This will not be secure! (more below) >From your previous posts, I think your web server runs in the Administrators group. What are you running as a mail server? I use Exim under Cygwin and that works well and integrates well with Mailman. Anyway, your mail server needs to run in the Administrators group too. Then you need to make your mailman user a member of the Administrators group, not mm, and reconfigure Mailman with --with-groupname, --with-cgi-gid and --with-mail-gid all equal to Administrators. Then reinstall with 'make install' and run 'bin/check_perms -f' to make sure things are OK. You may need to change the group of your $prefix directory to Administrators before configure will run. Now everything will run in the Administrators group which will have permissions. The SETGID wrappers won't actually set group, but they will be run in the Administrators group anyway, so things will work. The problem is that Apache will now be able to access any Mailman files without going through the cgi-bin wrappers, so potentially, outside users can retrieve things like config.pck files that contain member lists and their passwords. You may be able to arrange the Apache config so that it is not possible to craft a URL that would retrieve files from Mailman directly. If so, you would be fairly safe, but I don't know much about this, so I don't know how easy or difficult this might be. Let us know how it works out. And if you have 'improvements' for FAQ 5.2, please give us those too. -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Thanks Mark, the source code change you gave me made it work: I was able to use newlist, and it completed successfully! However, when I attempt to connect to the Admin page (http://localhost/mailman/admin.exe) it says: "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6 We're sorry, we hit a bug! ... the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs." The error log says: admin(428): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 591, in __load admin(428): fp = open(dbfile) admin(428): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck' I looked, and found that the file exists, although the permissions look questionable: $ ls -l /usr/local/mailman/lists/friends total 4 -rw-rw 1 Ben None 3607 Dec 21 23:22 config.pck I tried running the 'newlist' command as user 'mailman' instead, which produced the same "bug!" error, even though the user/group was now set as mailman.mm: -rw-rw 1 mailman mm 3605 Dec 21 23:29 config.pck I tried explicitly forcing permissions with 'chmod 777 config.pck', and that made the Admin page work. So, the "660" permissions are the problem, not the owner/group. However, when I tried the Admin page for the list, I got "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" again: admin(4088): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 512, in __save admin(4088): fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w') admin(4088): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/friends/config.pck.tmp.LittleGuy.4088' This seems to be a widespread issue with Mailman under Cygwin - permission don't behave as under Unix, so Mailman chokes easily. I don't blame Mailman, I'm sure it's reasonable for it to expect permissions to behave they way they should. However, at this point I'm wondering whether the Mailman + Cygwin combination is workable. The Mailman website, Manual and FAQ reasonably state that Mailman "does not currently work on Windows" and "some source-code level changes are currently necessary to get Mailman working under Cygwin" and "It probably does not work on Windows, although it's possible you could get it running on a Cygwin system." This makes me sad, as I had high hopes, as I cannot find any real alternative to Mailman in the Windows world, neither free nor commercial. All I wanted to do was to create a small mailing list on a plain XP box, but it's become a week-long ordeal ending in frustration. I'm wide open to advice, although I suspect "Get a Linux machine" is the likely response :( (I do have a Linux box, but this XP box is the quiet, low-power always-on server machine in our office which runs our website with Apache wonderfully, hence that's where I must install a mailing list.) Thanks, Ben > -Original Message- > From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Ben wrote: > >Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error! > >IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: > >'/usr/local/mailman/locks/.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0' > > The MailList.Create() method needs to obtain a lock for the > create process. Unfortunately, the name of the 'site' lock is > not a valid Windows name. Thus on Cygwin, you need to patch > MailList.py similarly to > > --- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/MailList.py 2005-02-15 16:21:41 > +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/MailList.py 2005-10-15 14:29:56 > -os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '') '.lock', > +os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '_site_') '.lock', -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Ben wrote: > >Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error! > >$ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Initial friends password: >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ? >main() > File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main >mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create >self.__lock.lock() > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock >self.__write() > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write >fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') >IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: >'/usr/local/mailman/locks/.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0' > >I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it >would be unable to do so. The permissions are all normal: The MailList.Create() method needs to obtain a lock for the create process. Unfortunately, the name of the 'site' lock is not a valid Windows name. Thus on Cygwin, you need to patch MailList.py similarly to --- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/MailList.py 2005-02-15 16:21:41 +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/MailList.py 2005-10-15 14:29:56 @@ -267,7 +267,7 @@ # need to reload, otherwise... we do. self.__timestamp = 0 self.__lock = LockFile.LockFile( -os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '') + '.lock', +os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOCK_DIR, name or '_site_') + '.lock', # TBD: is this a good choice of lifetime? lifetime = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_LIFETIME, withlogging = mm_cfg.LIST_LOCK_DEBUGGING) -- Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Hi folks, Some more information. I tried to banish all knowledge of the local hostname by providing the --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost arguments at the time of configure: $ ./configure --with-mail-gid=mm --with-cgi-gid=Administrators --with-groupname=mm --with-cgi-ext=.exe --with-mailhost=ahualoa.net --with-urlhost=ahualoa.net Then I did the 'make' and 'make install' and 'check_perms'. Now, when I try to add a list, I get a python error! $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net friends [EMAIL PROTECTED] Initial friends password: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 254, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 196, in main mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 488, in Create self.__lock.lock() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock self.__write() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w') IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/locks/.lock.LittleGuy.2992.0' I have no idea why it is trying to create this lock file, nor why it would be unable to do so. The permissions are all normal: $ ls -al /usr/local/mailman total 0 (...) drwxrwsrwx+ 2 mailman mm0 Dec 20 20:55 icons drwxrwsrwx+ 3 mailman mm0 Dec 20 22:32 lists drwxrwsrwx+ 2 mailman mm0 Dec 20 12:00 locks The locks folder is empty. I tried running the 'newlist' command as user 'mailman', and as a user with Adminstrator priveleges. In both cases it gives that same IOError. Can anyone help? All I am trying to do is create a simple mailing list. Thanks, Ben > -Original Message- > From: Ben > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:26 PM > To: mailman-users@python.org > > Aside from the Apache problem, I can't seem to get Mailman to > create a list. This is on Cygwin. > > I give the command: > > $ newlist friends > Enter the email of the person running the list: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Initial friends password: Create a new, > unpopulated mailing list. > Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist [options] [listname > [listadmin-addr [admin- password]]] > Options: (...a whole bunch of explanation...) > Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Now, "LittleGuy" is just the name of my local host; it's not > the fully-qualified domain. I don't know why Mailman is > trying to use it, but I figured that I could force it otherwise: > > $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enter the email of the person running > the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Initial friends password: > () > Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This doesn't make any sense at all. I'm telling Mailman very > explicitly which domain to create the list on. Why is > Mailman still trying to use my local hostname? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Mailman under Cygwin - won't add list
Hi folks, Aside from the Apache problem, I can't seem to get Mailman to create a list. This is on Cygwin. I give the command: $ newlist friends Enter the email of the person running the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Initial friends password: Create a new, unpopulated mailing list. Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin- password]]] Options: (...a whole bunch of explanation...) Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, "LittleGuy" is just the name of my local host; it's not the fully-qualified domain. I don't know why Mailman is trying to use it, but I figured that I could force it otherwise: $ newlist --urlhost=ahualoa.net --emailhost=ahualoa.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enter the email of the person running the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Initial friends password: () Illegal list name: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This doesn't make any sense at all. I'm telling Mailman very explicitly which domain to create the list on. Why is Mailman still trying to use my local hostname? Thanks, Ben -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
