Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: There should be an option(s?) for the membership list to be entirely list-admin controlled, (the Hotel California option[1][2]), in which case the irrelevant headers should be suppressed. Definitely. Although I don't have tests for it yet, it will be possible to say, run Mailman 3 lists off of hardcoded CSV files, or plain text files, or other roster sources that aren't writable through the Mailman interface. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
Mark Sapiro wrote: If I understand correctly the requirement 'ordained', Mailman is already doing exactly that. The only way to keep the HTML part 'intact' while adding the footer is to add the footer as a separate MIME part which is what Mailman does. If this then results in a message which doesn't display as desired in a particular MUA, the recourse is to the MUA because Mailman has no other option. Of course, you could always add the unsubscribe info as msg_header instead of msg_footer. Then Outlook would display it inline because Outlook would take it as the message body. The downside is that the message itself would now be the 'attachment'. I actually tried putting it as a header, with the expected results. I know it's an issue purely with Outlook (no other MUA in the office has had such a reaction with messages sent through Mailman). I may just have to write a pre- or post-process filter that adds the footer into the message manually. Thanks for the help. -- Christopher -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
Oh I know WHY it was done. However, being a [CENSORED] I would have said Get a real client or report the bug to the mothership and hope [HAHAHA CACKLE CACKLE SNORT] they get around to fixing it. You can't give those bastards an inch. -- Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11, 2009, at 15:48, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 11, 2009, at 3:16 PM, LuKreme wrote: On 11-Sep-2009, at 11:41, Mark Sapiro wrote: Yes, that's the way it works, but maybe it shouldn't. What do people think about changing this? Well, I'd be in favor of forcing the rfc2369 headers to always be there, myself. I hate it when lists don't have them. Historically, the option to remove them was added because people complained that their MUA (that shall remain nameless) could not hide them. -Barry -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
Christopher C. Wright wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9. It is clear that options 3 and 4 don't work for you. If neither option 1 or 2 works either, you can see the note at the bottom which will lead you to a patch which we don't recommend for the reasons discussed in the FAQ, but which you may find useful. Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. Unfortunately the powers that be have ordained that we must keep both HTML/MIME messages intact as well as include the header/footer. I'll see what options they can live with. If I understand correctly the requirement 'ordained', Mailman is already doing exactly that. The only way to keep the HTML part 'intact' while adding the footer is to add the footer as a separate MIME part which is what Mailman does. If this then results in a message which doesn't display as desired in a particular MUA, the recourse is to the MUA because Mailman has no other option. Of course, you could always add the unsubscribe info as msg_header instead of msg_footer. Then Outlook would display it inline because Outlook would take it as the message body. The downside is that the message itself would now be the 'attachment'. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
I am fighting a variation of this right now. We have several automated lists from which members can not remove themselves. Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. Unfortunately that also removed the List ID header. I had complaints that the purpose of the list, such as Official college announcements, was not prominent in the message - even though it appears in the message footer. So I faked it by using a message body header. This led us into the Outlook displaying the body of the message as an attachment morass. I have not figured out how to resolve these conflicting desires just yet. At 07:49 AM 9/11/2009, you wrote: Christopher C. Wright wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/84A9. It is clear that options 3 and 4 don't work for you. If neither option 1 or 2 works either, you can see the note at the bottom which will lead you to a patch which we don't recommend for the reasons discussed in the FAQ, but which you may find useful. Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. Unfortunately the powers that be have ordained that we must keep both HTML/MIME messages intact as well as include the header/footer. I'll see what options they can live with. If I understand correctly the requirement 'ordained', Mailman is already doing exactly that. The only way to keep the HTML part 'intact' while adding the footer is to add the footer as a separate MIME part which is what Mailman does. If this then results in a message which doesn't display as desired in a particular MUA, the recourse is to the MUA because Mailman has no other option. Of course, you could always add the unsubscribe info as msg_header instead of msg_footer. Then Outlook would display it inline because Outlook would take it as the message body. The downside is that the message itself would now be the 'attachment'. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kjohnson%40pcc.edu Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohn...@pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:44, Kirke Johnson kjohn...@pcc.edu wrote: Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. I would think the proper solution is to fix them, not remove them. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
The headers would work, but the subscription would automatically be restored the next night. Folks find that frustrating and would rather not be reminded about it. There will always be a percentage who do not want to receive information that is considered critical to the organization providing the email system. At 10:21 AM 9/11/2009, LuKreme krem...@kreme.com wrote: On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:44, Kirke Johnson kjohn...@pcc.edu wrote: Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. I would think the proper solution is to fix them, not remove them. -- Kirke Johnson Internet: kjohn...@pcc.edu Email Administrator, TSS , Sylvania Campus http://www.pcc.edu/ Portland Community College, Portland, OR, USA (503) 977-4368 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
LuKreme writes: On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:44, Kirke Johnson kjohn...@pcc.edu wrote: Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. I would think the proper solution is to fix them, not remove them. I think Kirke meant that they would work but the PHBs have decreed that they shall not, and I'm tired of people complaining that the unsubscribe header doesn't work when it's policy that it doesn't work. That said, I would think that if the list policy is you can't unsubscribe until I say it's OK, the unsubscribe header would be omitted by Mailman. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
Kirke Johnson wrote: I am fighting a variation of this right now. We have several automated lists from which members can not remove themselves. Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. Unfortunately that also removed the List ID header. Yes, that's the way it works, but maybe it shouldn't. What do people think about changing this? -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
On 11-Sep-2009, at 11:41, Mark Sapiro wrote: Yes, that's the way it works, but maybe it shouldn't. What do people think about changing this? Well, I'd be in favor of forcing the rfc2369 headers to always be there, myself. I hate it when lists don't have them. I think the solution to the OP's problem is to have a way to create a 'Roach Motel' list, that is, one where the subscribers cannot unsub. However, that setting should be 1) hard to find and 2) have BLINK tag warnings on it. -- Let's get back to syntax of procmail and forget the syntax of fools. Don -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
On Sep 11, 2009, at 3:16 PM, LuKreme wrote: On 11-Sep-2009, at 11:41, Mark Sapiro wrote: Yes, that's the way it works, but maybe it shouldn't. What do people think about changing this? Well, I'd be in favor of forcing the rfc2369 headers to always be there, myself. I hate it when lists don't have them. Historically, the option to remove them was added because people complained that their MUA (that shall remain nameless) could not hide them. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
On Sep 11, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Kirke Johnson wrote: I am fighting a variation of this right now. We have several automated lists from which members can not remove themselves. Due to complaints about subscription headers that would not work, I removed them. The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. Unfortunately that also removed the List ID header. I had complaints that the purpose of the list, such as Official college announcements, was not prominent in the message - even though it appears in the message footer. So I faked it by using a message body header. Maybe we just need a new option to control the List-Subscribe and List- Unsubscribe headers? I think that if include_rfc2369_headers is true, you should always get the List-ID and List-Help headers. -Barry PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlook and footer/signatureattachments
Barry Warsaw writes: On Sep 11, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Kirke Johnson wrote: The only way I found to do that was by turning off include_rfc2369_headers. Maybe we just need a new option to control the List-Subscribe and List- Unsubscribe headers? I think that if include_rfc2369_headers is true, you should always get the List-ID and List-Help headers. There should be an option(s?) for the membership list to be entirely list-admin controlled, (the Hotel California option[1][2]), in which case the irrelevant headers should be suppressed. Footnotes: [1] Apologies to LuKreme for changing the nickname, but my subscribers aren't ugly insects. [2] From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4qEzSz1JSc. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
