[Mailman-Users] Gmail now flagging list emails as suspicious
Hi everyone, We have a mailman list running version 2.1.38. https://homesteadfarm.org/mailman/listinfo/neighbors_homesteadfarm.org The list has been in service for more than 20 years and we have 400+ people on the list who live in our neighborhood. Recently, Gmail is flagging list emails with this message (in a bright orange-yellow box): Be careful with this message Gmail could not verify that it actually came from homesteadfarm.org. Avoid clicking links, downloading attachments, or replying with personal information. I read through the archives and thought there was a similar thread. In particular, this response seemed relevant: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg73812.html In particular: 4) Add your own outgoing DKIM signature. My apologies in advance if I am asking a stupid question, but how does one go about adding their own outgoing DKIM signature? Thanks, Matt -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Gmail and DKIM problems
A subscriber to one of my lists who posts from gmail has been made aware that some list subscribers do not get his postings because of DKIM setup at gmail. See attached error message. I understand that he can't do anything about the DKIM setup at gmail. Can I as list admin do something in the list setup (Mailman 2.29)? Also, how many subscribers are likely affected by his (or any gmail user's) DKIM setup? That is, are most list subscribers receiving his messages anyway, or is this problem preventing e-mail from him going to most list subscribers? Thomas Gramstad Message was blocked due to DKIM (). From:Anders Ericson *friland...@gmail.com* To: Biblioteknorge *bibliotekno...@kunnskapsallmenning.no* Subject: Biblioteket som statussymbol. Lat ungdomen lese, for _born._Vegar,_vatn,_straum_–_og_bibliotek Date:2021-06-24 09:47PM Message ID:1624564030-205058-5323-17319-1 IP:158.36.191.155 (hotell.nuug.no) Envelope From:biblioteknorge-boun...@mailman.kunnskapsallmenning.no Recipients: Recipients Action Reason Delivery Status *kristin.johanne.havs...@arendal.kommune.no* Blocked DKIM Not Delivered Dette kan muligens skyldes at SPF record ikke er helt riktig: v=spf1 redirect=_spf.google.com SPF Alignment Domain not found in SPF Med vennlig hilsen *Odd Arvid Knudsen* *Teknologiarkitekt* M: +47 488 92 398 *ıkt**.**agder* *Enklere hverdag* -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
Joseph Brennan writes: > I don't have a Mailman recommendation, but the situation is worth some > comment: > > Notice Gmail "blocks" with a 4xx temp fail, for a message they will never > accept. That's a protocol violation. It's abusive. This is unclear, and I lean to saying Google's interpretation is not a protocol violation. RFC 5321 gives a specific rule of thumb for this: It is difficult to assign a meaning to "transient" when two different sites (receiver- and sender-SMTP agents) must agree on the interpretation. Each reply in this category might have a different time value, but the SMTP client SHOULD try again. A rule of thumb to determine whether a reply fits into the 4yz or the 5yz category (see below) is that replies are 4yz if they can be successful if repeated without any change in command form or in properties of the sender or receiver (that is, the command is repeated identically and the receiver does not put up a new implementation). I interpret that to mean that if fixing a broken sender-side DNS (an SPF or DKIM record) would allow the message to pass a 4yz code is justified. I can't speak to other 4xx fails without knowing what they are. It might be more useful to block with 5xx, but I don't think Google is technically wrong on this, and they may have experience that says that this is better. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 09/12/2018 09:33 PM, John Levine wrote: > In article <5b99c857.19328.61f1d...@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> you write: >> Well, something changed between Thursday and Friday, because posts to the >> list >> were fine and this one generated a bounce for every gmail member. Has Gmail been bouncing all list posts or just this one. > Any chance that the message in question had a From: address in a > domain that publishes a restrictive DMARC policy? That can cause > bounces all over the place. If just this one post, it could be a DMARC issue, although I think Gmail gives a different reason for DMARC failures. Does your list apply any DMARC mitigations? I.e. Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> dmarc_moderation_action other than Accept. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
In article <5b99c857.19328.61f1d...@bernie.fantasyfarm.com> you write: >Well, something changed between Thursday and Friday, because posts to the list >were fine and this one generated a bounce for every gmail member. Any chance that the message in question had a From: address in a domain that publishes a restrictive DMARC policy? That can cause bounces all over the place. The usual suspects here are aol.com and yahoo.com, but a lot of companies that believe (usually wrongly) that they have a problem that DMARC can solve set DMARC policies, too. R's, John -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 13 Sep 2018 at 10:35, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Bernie Cosell writes:
>
> > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new
> > policy [that was, apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The
> > bounces say:
>
> Can you provide more information about this, or are you deducing a new
> policy from the sudden spate of bounces? I ask because
>
> > Please visit 421-4.7.0
> > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for
> more
> > 421- 4.7.0 information.
> >
> > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful.
>
> That's at least partly because it's bog-standard best-practice advice,
> and I see no evidence that anything in that document has changed
> recently.
Well, something changed between Thursday and Friday, because posts to the list
were fine and this one generated a bounce for every gmail member.
> 1. One (usually more for Google) of your list posts actually was spam
> or otherwise abusive.
I don't think that would get me an "authentication" complaint, would it?But
that hypothesis would make sense if through some oddity of google spam
detection they decided a perfectly legitimate list message was spam and so
bounced it. It certainly wasn't abusive [although it was a [civil] complaint].
Also, I realized after Joseph enlightened me/us why it took until Monday for
the
Friday-post to bounce: google, in their wisdom, has issued a "temporary try
again" error instead of a fatal [500] one. My service provider kept trying
for
three days and I got the bounces when their queue runner timed out the message.
I understood that the error message was mostly normal SPF/DKIM bafflegab,
but it appeared that none of the things it complained about were things under
my control and I face the question: did google change their policy on all
incoming email [easy for them to do!] or did my service provider break the DNS
stuff for just our domain [out of the thousands of domains they host]. I asked
here because i guessed the former was more likely [but I also submitted a
trouble
ticket to my service provider..:o)]
> 2. A group of your subscribers at Gmail took serious offense to
> something posted and reported to Gmail simultaneously.
Unlikely... I'm the "postmaster" for the list and they'd have complained to
me [as
they have in the past].
> 3. One or more users on another list served by your host did
> something remarkably abusive and the whole domain was marked as a
> bad/incompetent actor.
That is a possibility!! I left my last service provide [just a month ago!]
when it
had managed to get banned by aol, comcast, oneand1, mindspring.com,
netscape.net, optonline.net, roadrunner.com, verizon.net and a bunch of
others.
I would *hate* to have to be the tech at one of these
mega-domain-service-hosts.
They may have thousands of domains and who knows how many people passing
mail through them, and all it takes is a few bad actors to get their IP block
banned, and I know [having had to do this job at an ISP I worked at] it is
annoying and often difficult to get it fixed. [a credit where it is due: some
of the
RBL/blocking places allow you just to say "I'm the sysop at and I've fixed
the problem, please let me go" and they do. Others make it feel like they're
doing
you a huge favor to not blacklist you.
> 4. A DNS-related snafu made it look like your whole IP block was
> transferred to a group full of abusers, even though nothing bad
> has happened in your own IP.
That's a possiblity -- I've contacted the ISP {as i mentioned} and although
I've
heard nothing, the problem *seems* to have been a one-shot [subsequent posts to
the mialing list have not [yet] bounced from gmail] -- I'll know for sure in
another
two days...:o)].
> 1, 2, and 3 you can sometimes do something about, including getting in
> touch with Google, reporting that "this happened", and explaining why
> "it won't happen again" (in case 3, "not my list's fault"). Google is
> awfully big and may not care about you, but miracles do happen and 10
> minutes writing an email to them might work one. YMMV, of course.
Is there any way to do this? I have absolutely nothing to do with google [no
accounts, no mailbox there, no google-apps, no hangouts, etc] but even from the
google fanboys I correspond with I'm told that tech support is essentially
nonexistent. When I had a problem once, years ago, it took finding a friend
of a
friend who worked at google to email my question to..:o)
But enough on this, since it isn't a mailman problem [the only thing I kinda
wondered is if there were some setting, akin to the DMARC settings, that might
ameliorate this]. Thanks for all the info and with luck my service host has
fixed
up our DNS
/Bernie\
Bernie Cosell
ber...@fantasyfarm.com
-- Too many people; too few sheep --
--
[Mailman-Users] gmail
Bernie Cosell writes: > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new > policy [that was, apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The > bounces say: Can you provide more information about this, or are you deducing a new policy from the sudden spate of bounces? I ask because > Please visit 421-4.7.0 > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more > 421- 4.7.0 information. > > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. That's at least partly because it's bog-standard best-practice advice, and I see no evidence that anything in that document has changed recently. While it certainly could be a Google policy issue, this kind of thing is known to be caused sometimes by several other factors (eliminate any that just don't apply to you, of course): 1. One (usually more for Google) of your list posts actually was spam or otherwise abusive. 2. A group of your subscribers at Gmail took serious offense to something posted and reported to Gmail simultaneously. 3. One or more users on another list served by your host did something remarkably abusive and the whole domain was marked as a bad/incompetent actor. 4. A DNS-related snafu made it look like your whole IP block was transferred to a group full of abusers, even though nothing bad has happened in your own IP. 5. 4chan mischief. 6. Having mentioned 4chan, let's go right off the deep and mention "Cozy Bear" and the ilk. (That's a joke unless you're #natsec relevant, 4chan, unfortunately, while *very* unlikely is a possibility.) 1, 2, and 3 you can sometimes do something about, including getting in touch with Google, reporting that "this happened", and explaining why "it won't happen again" (in case 3, "not my list's fault"). Google is awfully big and may not care about you, but miracles do happen and 10 minutes writing an email to them might work one. YMMV, of course. > I certainly can't get any server anywhere to change their their > system configuration, Of course you can, for values of "you" == "all you users of the system." Remember, if you are having a problem due to a change in Google policy, most likely many others are as well. If you are a first reporter and do so in a measured tone, your credibility gets a boost. I don't deny that there are BOFHs and incompetent services out there, and all I can advise about them is "move" (which may not be a reasonable choice, YMMV). Obviously this route is unlikely to get fast action; I'm recommending it as an investment in the future. As usual, YMMV. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
I don't have a Mailman recommendation, but the situation is worth some comment: Notice Gmail "blocks" with a 4xx temp fail, for a message they will never accept. That's a protocol violation. It's abusive. I've been seeing the same temp fail abuse for some messages received from Mailchimp and forwarded by our users to external addresses, and also a message from princeton.edu forwarded through us to gmail. The fake temp fails clutter up the mail queue and slow down queue runs. To cope, I've started a separate queue runner to bounce on a short timeout for recipients @gmail. The 800 pound gorilla makes up its own rules. On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 10:10 PM Bernie Cosell wrote: > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy > [that was, > apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say: > > <@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] > said: > 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or > fails to > pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from > spam, > the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0 > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more > 421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of > DATA command) > > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i > certainly can't get > any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I > mess > with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume > that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I > can do > [just as a list owner] to deal with this mess? > > /Bernie\_ > > > Bernie Cosell > ber...@fantasyfarm.com > -- Too many people; too few sheep -- > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brennan%40columbia.edu > -- Joseph Brennan Lead, Email and Systems Applications -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
At Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:04:58 -0400 "Bernie Cosell" wrote: > > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy [that > was, > apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say: > > <@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] said: > 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails > to > pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from spam, > the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0 > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more > 421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of > DATA command) > > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i certainly > can't get > any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I > mess > with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume > that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I > can do > [just as a list owner] to deal with this mess? There is nothing you can do as a "list owner". You will have to talk to your server's admin. "He/She/They" *have* to implement *at least* SPF and DKIM. ALL legit outbound mail servers *have* to implement *at least* SPF and DKIM. If your server's admin can't / won't do this, your only other option is to move your list to a different server. > > /Bernie\_ > > > Bernie Cosell > ber...@fantasyfarm.com > -- Too many people; too few sheep -- > > -- > Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/heller%40deepsoft.com > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services hel...@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 09/11/2018 07:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > > The one big downside of adding SPF, is that this cause problems if > anyone sets up a forward for list messages to another domain, as these > now will get rejected by any domain that checks SPF. This can be at least partially mitigated by appending ~all (SOFTFAIL) or even ?all (NEUTRAL) to your SPF record. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 09/11/2018 07:04 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy [that > was, > apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say: > > <@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] said: > 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails > to > pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from spam, > the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0 > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more > 421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of > DATA command) > > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i certainly > can't get > any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I > mess > with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume > that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I > can do > [just as a list owner] to deal with this mess? No. You need to convince your hosting service to publish SPF records for your domain indicating that the outgoing server is permitted and to DKIM sign outgoing messages from your domain. In todays environment these are normal requirements for sending mail and the Mailman host should do them. However, if your list domain is fantasyfarm.com, it appears that dreamhost does publish an appropriate SPF and at least DKIM signed the post to which I'm replying. Also, FWIW, I'm not seeing an abnormal number of gmail users bouncing on my lists or on python.org lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail
On 9/11/18 10:04 AM, Bernie Cosell wrote: > I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy [that > was, > apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say: > > <@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] said: > 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails > to > pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from spam, > the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0 > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more > 421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of > DATA command) > > I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i certainly > can't get > any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I > mess > with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume > that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I > can do > [just as a list owner] to deal with this mess? > > /Bernie\_ > > > Bernie Cosell One option they list is to establish SPF for your domain (assuming that the list comes from a domain that you control). I found that a couple of years ago I need to add SPF for my list to avoid getting lots of these from GMail. The one big downside of adding SPF, is that this cause problems if anyone sets up a forward for list messages to another domain, as these now will get rejected by any domain that checks SPF. -- Richard Damon -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] gmail
I've gotten buried by 80 bounce messages, thanks to gmail's new policy [that was, apparently, put into effect yesterday]. The bounces say: <@gmail.com>: host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.129.26] said: 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or fails to pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users from spam, the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more 421- 4.7.0 information. 128-v6si11952705iti.109 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command) I looked at their 'answer' and mostly found it to be unhelpful. i certainly can't get any server anywhere to change their their system configuration, nor can I mess with mailman [all suggestions about python-esque tweaks to mailman presume that you have access to the server, which I don't]. Is there something I can do [just as a list owner] to deal with this mess? /Bernie\_ Bernie Cosell ber...@fantasyfarm.com -- Too many people; too few sheep -- -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] gmail Multiple destination domains error
I have a mailman list running on Linux CentOS 5 with sendmail 8.13.8. Generally, everything works (I believe/hope). Today I got a bounce action notification. When I looked at it, there's a regular DSN e.g. - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - x...@utvinternet.com (reason: 550 5.1.1 x...@utvinternet.com: Recipient address rejected: User unknown) OK so far. Then in the same message I see - Transcript of session follows - ... while talking to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.: DATA 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please etc. When I grep the mail logs, all the deferred messages to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (74.125.192.27) are x...@gmail.com, i.e. all to gmail.com However, I've also got several users on googlemail.com, also using 74.125.192.27. Those messages went through OK, and seem to be associated with the ID r2si3773706igh.8 Has anyone else seen this ? Does Google not like sendmail anymore ? A bit later, I see things like to=user...@hotmail.com dsn=4.3.1, stat=Deferred: 452 Too many recipients to=user...@hotmail.com dsn=4.3.1, stat=Deferred: 452 Too many recipients Again, does Hotmail not like sendmail ? Is there something I should tune, or is this just normal mail behaviour and it will be dlayed till the next queue run ? -- Andrew Daviel, TRIUMF, Canada -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail Multiple destination domains error
On 02/17/2015 05:59 PM, Andrew Daviel wrote: I have a mailman list running on Linux CentOS 5 with sendmail 8.13.8. Generally, everything works (I believe/hope). Today I got a bounce action notification. When I looked at it, there's a regular DSN e.g. - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - x...@utvinternet.com (reason: 550 5.1.1 x...@utvinternet.com: Recipient address rejected: User unknown) OK so far. Then in the same message I see - Transcript of session follows - ... while talking to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.: DATA 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please 451 4.3.0 try again. r2si3773706igh.8 - gsmtp use...@gmail.com... Deferred: 451-4.3.0 Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported. Please etc. So your MTA is sending to many gmail.com and other addresses using the same SMTP MX in one transaction. When I grep the mail logs, all the deferred messages to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (74.125.192.27) are x...@gmail.com, i.e. all to gmail.com However, I've also got several users on googlemail.com, also using 74.125.192.27. Those messages went through OK, and seem to be associated with the ID r2si3773706igh.8 This is what the Multiple destination domains per transaction is unsupported complaint from google is about. Presumably, all those 451s were ultimately retried by sendmail and succeeded. Mailman is delivering a whole bunch of recipients per SMTP transaction (up to Mailman's SMTP_MAX_RCPTS, default 500). Sendmail is taking that one message transaction and delivering and many RCPTs as it can in one of it's transactions. It appears the the first RCPT TO seen by google was a googlemail.com address so it then gave the 451 response to all the succeeding gmail.com addresses. The only puzzle is why this particular transaction transcript was included with a bounce of the x...@utvinternet.com address which shouldn't have been involved in a google SMTP transaction AFAICT. Was the 550 for x...@utvinternet.com included in the transcript? Has anyone else seen this ? Does Google not like sendmail anymore ? You might be able to configure sendmail to send fewer (one) RCPT TO per transaction, but see below. A bit later, I see things like to=user...@hotmail.com dsn=4.3.1, stat=Deferred: 452 Too many recipients to=user...@hotmail.com dsn=4.3.1, stat=Deferred: 452 Too many recipients Again, does Hotmail not like sendmail ? Is there something I should tune, or is this just normal mail behaviour and it will be dlayed till the next queue run ? These should all be deferred and retried, but will add delay. I suggest verifying that Mailman's VERPing will work, i.e., that messages sent to listname-bounces+user=example.com@your.mailman.server will be delivered in the same way as messages addressed to listname-bounces@your.mailman.server If you'd rather use a '-' delimiter rather than '+' as above, see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/8683535. Then I suggest setting VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py to enable VERP on outgoing messages. The first two are essentially no cost as long as VERP like addresses work. The third has some performance impact, but it isn't severe. These will result in more reliable, automated bounce processing and will result in messages being delivered from Mailman to the MTA (sendmail) with one RCPT TO per transaction and then sendmail doing the same. The major cost is the DATA (i.e. message body) has to be included for each RCPT, but this isn't huge. If you don't want to VERP for some reason, you can set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to a small number, e.g. 10 or less, in mm_cfg.py. This will eliminate the hotmail issue and make the gmail/googlemail issue much less likely to occur, but note that in all of this, I'm sure all the 45x responses were queued and retried, eventually successfully, with additional delay being the only real issue. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
Jim Popovitch writes: TBH, I'm not sure what else there is to look for. :-) GMail, every so often, is telling my Mailman that it needs to Auth in order to reflect From:gmail to other gmail customers. It's like DMARC without following the DMARC standard (GMail has a p=none policy). Is it possible that those users are using their GMail address from a non-Google host? That would explain the intermittent nature of the challenge -- it doesn't have the GMail DKIM signature that identifies GMail-from-GMail messages. And it would also explain why it looks like DMARC, since DKIM is one of the underlying protocols used to implement DMARC. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 2:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Jim Popovitch writes: TBH, I'm not sure what else there is to look for. :-) GMail, every so often, is telling my Mailman that it needs to Auth in order to reflect From:gmail to other gmail customers. It's like DMARC without following the DMARC standard (GMail has a p=none policy). Is it possible that those users are using their GMail address from a non-Google host? That would explain the intermittent nature of the challenge -- it doesn't have the GMail DKIM signature that identifies GMail-from-GMail messages. And it would also explain why it looks like DMARC, since DKIM is one of the underlying protocols used to implement DMARC. I strip any existing inbound sigs. The GMail senders were using GMail web interface. This looks more and more like a lazy DNS issue, as the MX for GMail has flip-flopped over the past ~24 hours. I honestly think that GMail rotated in a wrong server...the only other possibility is that powerdns cached a record beyond it's TTL. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Jim Popovitch jim...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 04/24/2014 12:35 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: I don't know if this was the case before, but Gmail is publishing a DMARC record with p=none. I seem to recall that last week the weren't publishing a DMARC record at all, although I might be mistaken. These results are from over a week ago. They are in a draft of a report of research and testing I was doing that was last updated on April 15. _dmarc.gmail.com.: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.googlegroups.com: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.google.com: v=DMARC1\; p=quarantine\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com GMail's had a p=none for a while now... months. GMail also had an odd hiccup today. I received a ton of bounces because: Apr 24 18:20:59 svr6 postfix/smtp[26753]: 2838F36B12: to= xxx...@gmail.com, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.201.109]:25, delay=0.69, delays=0.26/0/0.38/0.05, dsn=5.5.1, status=bounced (host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.201.109] said: 530-5.5.1 Authentication Required. Learn more at 530 5.5.1 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257 b6sm884241igm.2 - gsmtp (in reply to MAIL FROM command)) So for some period of time, they wanted Mailman to auth as who? :-) OK, that wasn't an odd hiccup, that was/is intentional action by google. Gmail now seems to be bouncing email where From: is another gmail account. Check your bounce logs. -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On Fri, 2014-04-25 at 11:54 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257 b6sm884241igm.2 - gsmtp (in reply to MAIL FROM command)) So for some period of time, they wanted Mailman to auth as who? :-) OK, that wasn't an odd hiccup, that was/is intentional action by google. Gmail now seems to be bouncing email where From: is another gmail account. I'm not seeing this in my mail logs here. The URL cited in the log entry gives no reason for such a policy. The mail log here shows a number of 5.1.1 bounces of list mail to gmail.com addresses for a number of reasons, but this isn't one of them. # grep gmail mail.log|grep [listname]|grep 5\.1\.1 Should I be looking for something else? About 25% of the subscribers on our biggest discussion list are gmail.com subscribers. -- Lindsay Haisley | Everything works if you let it FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Lindsay Haisley fmo...@fmp.com wrote: On Fri, 2014-04-25 at 11:54 -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote: http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257 b6sm884241igm.2 - gsmtp (in reply to MAIL FROM command)) So for some period of time, they wanted Mailman to auth as who? :-) OK, that wasn't an odd hiccup, that was/is intentional action by google. Gmail now seems to be bouncing email where From: is another gmail account. I'm not seeing this in my mail logs here. The URL cited in the log entry gives no reason for such a policy. The mail log here shows a number of 5.1.1 bounces of list mail to gmail.com addresses for a number of reasons, but this isn't one of them. # grep gmail mail.log|grep [listname]|grep 5\.1\.1 Should I be looking for something else? About 25% of the subscribers on our biggest discussion list are gmail.com subscribers. TBH, I'm not sure what else there is to look for. :-) GMail, every so often, is telling my Mailman that it needs to Auth in order to reflect From:gmail to other gmail customers. It's like DMARC without following the DMARC standard (GMail has a p=none policy). -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
I don't know if this was the case before, but Gmail is publishing a DMARC record with p=none. I seem to recall that last week the weren't publishing a DMARC record at all, although I might be mistaken. -- Lindsay Haisley | Everything works if you let it FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On 04/24/2014 12:35 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: I don't know if this was the case before, but Gmail is publishing a DMARC record with p=none. I seem to recall that last week the weren't publishing a DMARC record at all, although I might be mistaken. These results are from over a week ago. They are in a draft of a report of research and testing I was doing that was last updated on April 15. _dmarc.gmail.com.: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.googlegroups.com: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.google.com: v=DMARC1\; p=quarantine\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail and DMARC
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.net wrote: On 04/24/2014 12:35 PM, Lindsay Haisley wrote: I don't know if this was the case before, but Gmail is publishing a DMARC record with p=none. I seem to recall that last week the weren't publishing a DMARC record at all, although I might be mistaken. These results are from over a week ago. They are in a draft of a report of research and testing I was doing that was last updated on April 15. _dmarc.gmail.com.: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.googlegroups.com: v=DMARC1\; p=none\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com _dmarc.google.com: v=DMARC1\; p=quarantine\; rua=mailto:mailauth-repo...@google.com GMail's had a p=none for a while now... months. GMail also had an odd hiccup today. I received a ton of bounces because: Apr 24 18:20:59 svr6 postfix/smtp[26753]: 2838F36B12: to= xxx...@gmail.com, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.201.109]:25, delay=0.69, delays=0.26/0/0.38/0.05, dsn=5.5.1, status=bounced (host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.201.109] said: 530-5.5.1 Authentication Required. Learn more at 530 5.5.1 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257 b6sm884241igm.2 - gsmtp (in reply to MAIL FROM command)) So for some period of time, they wanted Mailman to auth as who? :-) -Jim P. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
On 5/15/2013 10:45 AM, Dave Jones wrote, in part: I am not sure the best place to solve this problem but I will start with this list since the problem is impacting a heavy traffic mailman listserv. Since Mark did not respond to this, I will. Mailman is not listserv. Listserv is a registered trademark of L-soft, and is one of a number of Mailing List Management software packages available. Mailman is another MLM software package. (I first met the founder of L-soft when he was still a student in Paris.) --Barry Finkel -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
I am not sure the best place to solve this problem but I will start with this list since the problem is impacting a heavy traffic mailman listserv. Google recently started enforcing only a single From: header in RFC2822 causing bounces to members of a very heavy traffic list. A single person with bad mail client configuration is getting all of the Google Apps recipients removed from a list frequently. Postfix log entry: May 15 8:49:57 list01 postfix/smtp[27955]: 35C865058D2: to= jsm...@example.com, relay=aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.137.27]:25, delay=3.1, delays=0.07/2.3/0.03/0.61, dsn=5.7.1, status=bounced (host aspmx.l.google.com[74.125.137.27] said: 550-5.7.1 [126.24.19.8 11] Our system has detected that this message is not 550-5.7.1 RFC 2822 compliant. To reduce the amount of spam sent to Gmail, this 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked. Please review 550 5.7.1 RFC 2822 specifications for more information. f47si18577759yhf.187 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command)) http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/42771/emails-sent-to-gmail-domain-suddenly-not-rfc-2822-compliant-possible-to-bypass My question is can Mailman strip out the duplicate From: headers leaving the first one? I have searched for a Postfix solution with no luck. I guess I could work up a procmail solution for all inbound mail but really didn't want to add that layer of complexity if it could be handled by Postfix or Mailman. Thanks, Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail RFC 2822
On 05/15/2013 08:45 AM, Dave Jones wrote: My question is can Mailman strip out the duplicate From: headers leaving the first one? I have searched for a Postfix solution with no luck. I guess I could work up a procmail solution for all inbound mail but really didn't want to add that layer of complexity if it could be handled by Postfix or Mailman. Mailman can do this, but it requires a custom handler http://wiki.list.org/x/l4A9. Alternatively, you could use header_filter_rules with a regexp like ^From:(.|\n)*^From: to detect multiple From: headers and reject the post. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Lucio Crusca writes: Actually I already suspected that no RFC said what a MUA should do with messages. However Gmail is accessible via POP/IMAP also. AFAICT the same messages are lost also when accessing gmail via POP/IMAP, and in that case GMail is not only a MUA and it does break standards. I don't think so. Perhaps MUA is the wrong term for a message store in the cloud, but the fact is that Gmail is the final recipient as far as the RFCs are concerned. Eg, IMAP servers often implement SIEVE recipes and spam filtering, so some messages will be lost. In any case, no messages are lost; only copies with different meta-data. I don't really disagree with you that Gmail's behavior is horrible. My point is that if you think its behavior is non-conforming, you may be in for other, even less pleasant surprises in the future. About the fact that you can always use a different MUA, unfortunately in many cases that's only theory. I can't say I have a lot of sympathy. You get Gmail for free, you shouldn't think it comes with no strings attached. No, I'm willing to do it only for gmail users that activate the relevant option in their mailman preferences. I think that's best, but I can't help you with implementing that kind of thing (in principle I know what to do, but I don't have time to nail down the details for a while). For Mark or Barry it's probably quite straightforward, but of course their time is very valuable. If you do it only for the Gmail-using subscriber, you'll probably screw up his threading because his copy of the message will have a different Message-ID from what everybody else refers to. I find that to be pretty intrusive. You are absolutely right. Probably changing Message-Id is not the best way to workaround that feature when applied only to the copy for the original poster. Well, unfortunately Gmail is closed-source and I don't know what the full algorithm is. Surely Message-Id is part of it, but evidently there are other aspects to it, or the behavior you and Brad R. describe wouldn't happen. I wonder if there are any other headers that can be changed, only in the message copy for the original poster, that do the job. I presume that there are. Probably Brad's discussion gives a hint. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Stephen J. Turnbull writes: I don't think so. Perhaps MUA is the wrong term for a message store in the cloud, but the fact is that Gmail is the final recipient as far as the RFCs are concerned. Eg, IMAP servers often implement SIEVE recipes and spam filtering, so some messages will be lost. Again, that's not the point and we basically agree gmail is bad, but... a standard is some set of commonly accepted rules. Be it written down into a RFC or not. The standard (expected by most people) behavior of a email final recipient software, if not MUA, is to receive emails, not to throw them away based on ill advised algorithms. Sieve recipes and spam filtering is something that users can disable and modify at will (at least that's the standard for MUAs). If a recipe or spam filter accidentally trashes a message, the user can always disable that recipe or filter. Gmail does break the standard (expected behavior) in that does not let users choose if they want to receive some messages that are not spam by any stretch of imagination. Imho. In any case, no messages are lost; only copies with different meta-data. However some information is actually lost (threading in the user's inbox and the acknowledgment that your message has actually reached the mailing list). I don't really disagree with you that Gmail's behavior is horrible. My point is that if you think its behavior is non-conforming, you may be in for other, even less pleasant surprises in the future. You see, there must be a reason why I decided to roll my own mail server after all... I'm prepared to surprises. I'm not a gmail user, though I do have a sleeping gmail account. I'd only like to slap gmail in the face if I could, by working around their wonderful feature, just for the taste of feeling smarter than they pretend to be. All in all, what is hacking about if not that? I can't say I have a lot of sympathy. You get Gmail for free, you shouldn't think it comes with no strings attached. Quite obvious, though I can't see what Gmail earns from that feature, but I suspect it's me not foreseeing very far away. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
On Thursday 09 August 2012, Lucio Crusca wrote: I'd only like to slap gmail in the face if I could, by working around their wonderful feature, just for the taste of feeling smarter than they pretend to be. All in all, what is hacking about if not that? Please do! Gmail user only because my ISP outsourced mail to them three years ago. Was helping a small discusion list move from an LSoft ListServe to Mailman at the time so suddenly missing my own posts back made testing impossible. Was infuriated when I discovered there was no way to turn this stupid feature off. My work around is to post through my web hosts mail server. Most people do not have this option so a setting in Mailman for other would be great. -- William -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Lucio Crusca writes: Again, that's not the point and we basically agree gmail is bad, but... a standard is some set of commonly accepted rules. Be it written down into a RFC or not. It doesn't need to be in an RFC, but it must be written. What is commonly accepted is simply not a standard because it's impossible to know if you're conforming, or what you need to conform to. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
On Aug 8, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Well, unfortunately Gmail is closed-source and I don't know what the full algorithm is. Surely Message-Id is part of it, but evidently there are other aspects to it, or the behavior you and Brad R. describe wouldn't happen. In the large-scale mail system design that I've done in the past, the tuple of (sender,recipient,message-id) was considered to be a pretty good index key for the mail database, albeit not a guaranteed unique key. Most greylisting implementations use a tuple of (sender,recipient,sending-IP) to determine if this particular message should be delayed or not. I even did a single-instance-store message database design that did an SHA-1 hash of the message body content to see if the message contents really were unique, and if not then you could store the headers separate from the body and for the body you could just include a pointer to the existing message body that you already have. I believe that some implementations of Microsoft Exchange implement a similar algorithm. If you wanted to go to the extreme, you could de-compose each message to the individual MIME bodyparts, and then do an SHA-1 hash on each of those. So, no matter how many copies of the latest Dilbert cartoon get mailed out, and no matter what text or other material might surround that, you'd still be able to reduce that to storing just one copy of the cartoon with multiple inbound links. On the other hand, Nick Christensen (author of Sendmail Performance Tuning, ISBN-13: 978-0321115706) and I discovered that you would be trading more disk I/O operations in order to try to save a relatively trivial amount of disk space, and that's the exact opposite of the trade-off you want to make given the way disk storage capacities have rapidly grown while I/O capacities have been relatively stagnant. We discussed all these issues in the invited talk Design and Implementation of Highly Scalable E-mail Systems, see http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/papers/dihses/. I happen to know the former SRE for gmail, but I don't think he'd be able to tell me anything useful on this subject. I really don't think that this is a disk storage issue, I think this is much more likely to be a wrong-headed idea that this kind of thing will be beneficial to the users -- after all, they know that they sent the message and that copy is sitting in the outbox, so they don't need to have another copy sitting in the inbox. And maybe for the majority of users, that decision might actually be helpful. But they need to give people a way to turn that option off, so that they don't break the ability to do debugging when testing the sending of messages to remote systems. Of course, if people are on Google Groups, then this probably isn't an issue for them. And maybe that's the other part of the problem -- maybe Google sees this feature as being a competitive advantage for them with combining Google Groups and gmail working better together, and they don't see the benefit of making gmail be able to play better with the rest of the world. If you think it's worthwhile, you could always try turning on personalization for the list, and then add a footer with unique information per recipient. That would cause the message-id to be unique as well as the message body, and wouldn't require any new code to be developed. -- Brad Knowles b...@shub-internet.org LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Brad Knowles writes: I really don't think that this is a disk storage issue, I think this is much more likely to be a wrong-headed idea that this kind of thing will be beneficial to the users -- after all, they know that they sent the message and that copy is sitting in the outbox, so they don't need to have another copy sitting in the inbox. I agree it's not about disk storage, I think it's just de-duplication of the messages that users see. Back when Canter and Siegel first got started, we hated spam not because there was so much of it, but because it was so bloody annoying to see it in every newsgroup we subscribed to. I don't see why ordinary users wouldn't feel the same way (of course one dupe is far less annoying than Green Card lawyers in every group you read, but if you get a lot of them, the annoyance level would build up). I disagree that it's wrongheaded, if Gmail is going to always do de-duplication with one algorithm. Gmail always stores the mail you sent, as you sent it. It is not necessarily the case that it will come back to you in one piece. After all, our favorite list distribution software is just bristling with settings determining what's going to be left of your post once it arrives at the subscriber's mailbox. Everybody can understand if they send out a PNG, it comes back from the list stripped or the mail gets dropped, and for some reason they don't have a copy of their original. OTOH, only a very few would know, let alone care, about missing RFC 2369 headers in a few copies they have locally! I just think that users ought to have a choice of how de-duping is done. Or if it gets done at all. If you think it's worthwhile, you could always try turning on personalization for the list, and then add a footer with unique information per recipient. That would cause the message-id to be unique as well as the message body, and wouldn't require any new code to be developed. Small correction: the Message-Id will be the same for all copies. Mailman cannot go changing those, or it would play hell with all threading MUAs. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Brad Rogers writes: Gmail has *always* been that way. There is a workaround. Maybe it is employed (if only by accident) on the lists you mention. It is required that the list be set up with the following; Receive: list.foo.bar Ok, I think the example fits my case (3rd level domain is lists in my case). Send: smtp.foo.bar Does that mean that I must have an external (from my mailman server point of view) smtp server? That would explain everything, but that would also leave me without a dime, because I can't reasonably identify another meaningful SMTP server to act as smart relay for my smtp server. And no, purposely setting one up is not an option, at least for me. and then add the header; Reply to: list.foo.bar Already done since when I created my lists (I almost always set reply_goes_to_list option to the list itself, unrespectful of big fat warnings mailman shows about reply-to munging considered harmful). I got this from another list I'm subbed to, have never done it myself so can't say for sure it's correct, but have no reason to doubt the source. See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html and a few surrounding messages for some context. I've read the whole thread, thanks. Unfortunately it does not reply to my questions above, but maybe you have undestood the exact meaning of those words. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 09:09:22 +0200 Lucio Crusca lu...@sulweb.org wrote: Hello Lucio, Brad Rogers writes: Send: smtp.foo.bar Does that mean that I must have an external (from my mailman server point of view) smtp server? That would explain everything, but that I believe so, yes. I only run one list, and don't have sufficient access rights to play with this to find out. Like you, I have limited funds, so can't buy my list out of this situation. Reply to: list.foo.bar Already done since when I created my lists (I almost always set reply_goes_to_list option to the list itself, unrespectful of big warnings mailman shows about reply-to munging considered harmful). I don't set it, but there are arguments both for and against. It's up to each of us to make up our own minds. See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html and a few surrounding messages for some context. I've read the whole thread, thanks. Unfortunately it does not reply to my questions above, but maybe you have undestood the exact meaning of those words. Yes, we were diverging from the real subject of the thread, and I never pursued the matter any further. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Black man got a lot of problems, but he don't mind throwing a brick White Riot - The Clash signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Stephen J. Turnbull writes: Your fact is presumably due to some error in observation, since Gmail acknowledges this behavior as a feature of Gmail. It is simply not possible to receive your own posts on Gmail; you can only keep the Sent folder copy. I can confirm my observation is correct. I have at least three gmail users which I personally know that suffer from that feature on one of my lists and don't experience the same problem on another list which is mailman powered but hosted at a friend's server. Other users started to experience the feature only when I migrated a mailing list from a server to another and they notified me just after the migration. I currently have a few examples of existing and running mailing lists powered by mailman where gmail subscribers do receive their own posts, this is one: http://mailman.pinerolo.linux.it/mailman/listinfo/soci Feel free to try subscribing to the above list and try posting from gmail. It's an italian language list dedicated to our local linux users group, but as far as you put an [OT] in the subject there are no problems. Are you sure you don't mean a different issue such as FAQ 3.42? http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030690 Absolutely sure. Messages from the list are correctly delivered to gmail subscribers, except the ones themselves sent. Please recheck; if there's a reasonable way to get around this, there are probably thousands of Gmail users who would love to do so. But I suspect you'll discover that Gmail users simply won't receive their own posts from the list. Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time in the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do. I would imagine that you could change the Message-ID at the list, and that might do the trick. But that is strictly against the relevant standards for mail. What's more against standards than throwing messages away like gmail does? I wouldn't care too much if the patch concerned only gmail subscribers. It should be possible to do it for the particular message sent to the poster only, but that would be delicate. Please elaborate. That would be the solution. I imagine something fairly simple and not very intrusive, like adding something like this somewhere in the mailman code: msg = create_message_copy(message) if msg.recipient == msg.sender is_option_active(workaround_gmail_feature) domain(msg.recipient) == gmail # do whatever delicate and nasty on msg # in order to have it delivered. # At worst, it won't be delivered anyway... endif send_message(msg) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:19:41 - Lucio Crusca lu...@sulweb.org wrote: Hello Lucio, Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time in the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do. Gmail has *always* been that way. There is a workaround. Maybe it is employed (if only by accident) on the lists you mention. It is required that the list be set up with the following; Receive: list.foo.bar Send: smtp.foo.bar and then add the header; Reply to: list.foo.bar I got this from another list I'm subbed to, have never done it myself so can't say for sure it's correct, but have no reason to doubt the source. See http://lists.claws-mail.org/pipermail/users/2012-July/002752.html and a few surrounding messages for some context. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Kill joy, bad guy, big talking, small fry Death On Two Legs - Queen signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail features
Lucio Crusca writes: Feel free to try subscribing to the above list and try posting from gmail. OK, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. I need to sleep after that last goal by Mexico. :-( Like I said, I suspect it depends on the list. My current best guess is that older lists (i.e. the ones that had been created before some time in the past) don't hit the infamous feature, while newer ones do. That's definitely wrong. I've been a gmail user for at least 5 years, occasionally posting to various mailing lists of which some have been in existence for more than 20 years, with the oldest Mailman installation being 13 years old (but Mailman has been upgraded regularly, of course). What's more against standards than throwing messages away like gmail does? I wouldn't care too much if the patch concerned only gmail subscribers. Sorry, but you're wrong. Gmail is an MUA, there are no RFCs for what it should do with messages it receives, only for the wire format to use when sending and interpret when receiving. If users don't like what it does, there are plenty of other MUAs. To the extent that the RFCs apply, Gmail is perfectly within the standards. Two messages that have the same Message-ID are presumed to be the same message by the RFCs. Gmail also provides MTA services. If someone uses a different MUA to send via Gmail's SMTP server, I believe they would receive that message via the list as the Gmail MUA wouldn't have a copy. Is that a possible explanation? Please elaborate. That would be the solution. I imagine something fairly simple and not very intrusive, like adding something like this somewhere in the mailman code: If you're willing to do it for all recipients but only for posts from Gmail users, you can do it in a Handler, pretty much anywhere in the pipeline. I consider that non-intrusive and relatively benign because everybody's copy will have the same Message-ID for threading, Gmane searching, and the like. If you do it only for the Gmail-using subscriber, you'll probably screw up his threading because his copy of the message will have a different Message-ID from what everybody else refers to. I find that to be pretty intrusive. Also, as far as I know, doing that would require doing surgery on the personalization code, after the handoff to the outgoing queue runner. I'm not willing to advise you on that, I don't know that part of the code at all. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Gmail Admin/Owner Notifications
Having a weird issue with my mailman list. I am using my gmail account as the list owner and moderator. When an email is sent to the list from someone else I get the email from the list just fine, the problem is when someone joins the list I am not getting any of the email notifications at all, not even in spam. I switched to a non-gmail email address and I then get the notifications just fine. Very weird. Any help/suggestion? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail Admin/Owner Notifications
On 4/25/2011 8:29 AM, L. James Prevo wrote: Having a weird issue with my mailman list. I am using my gmail account as the list owner and moderator. When an email is sent to the list from someone else I get the email from the list just fine, the problem is when someone joins the list I am not getting any of the email notifications at all, not even in spam. I switched to a non-gmail email address and I then get the notifications just fine. Very weird. Any help/suggestion? This is reminiscent of the problem of the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9, but it is not that problem. However, it would seem to be a gmail issue of some sort. If you have access to the MTA logs on the server directly or indirectly, verify that the messages are sent to and accepted by gmail. If so, gmail is discarding them for some reason. The FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9 may have useful information. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam...
Kārlis Repsons wrote: On Friday 12 June 2009 19:45:25 you wrote: The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes I set in that way, but still its in spam folder... Strange, how could your message get into the inbox, do we have different configs, you've forgot about some not spam marking or what else? There are various things that could be different. My server publishes SPF records. That may make a difference. My server may have a better reputation with Google/gmail than yours. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9. This is something you'll have to pursue with Google/gmail. And there is one more thing bothering me: look there: http://www.trikata.com/pipermail/test/2009-June/thread.html same word nogādāt was posted in all of the cases, where those terrible characters appear! Maybe you know whats wrong? The string =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?= is an RFC2047 encoding of the string nogādāt The actual raw header in your archive (at least for one of these) contains three RFC 2047 encoded pieces. The first is =?utf-8?q?skatamies=2C_cik_ilgi_google_m=C4=93=C4=A3ina_=3D?= and decodes to skatamies, cik ilgi google mēģina =. The second is =?utf-8?b?P3V0Zi04P3E/X25vZz1DND04MWQ9QzQ9ODF0Pz0sIGthZCBuZXZhci4u?= and decodes to ?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?=, kad nevar... The last is =?utf-8?q?=2E?= and decodes to . If I had to guess, I'd say that the original subject got mis-folded by something and the initial = of =?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?= got separated from the rest by a line continuation, and then the remaining ?utf-8?q?_nog=C4=81d=C4=81t?= was treated as text rather than an endoded string The problem may be with the MUA that composed the mail or it may be with Mailman's adding the subject_prefix. I think I'd need to see the raw message as sent to the list to know for sure. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam...
On Friday 12 June 2009 19:45:25 you wrote: Kālis Repsons wrote: Hi, maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as non-spam? It just throws mail confirm e8492f19d7c336341050... Confirmations are sent with Precedence: bulk which may be part of the problem, but I just tested a confirmation to a gmail.com address and it went to the inbox. As far as I know, I have no special spam whitelisting in effect on this gmail account. The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes I set in that way, but still its in spam folder... Strange, how could your message get into the inbox, do we have different configs, you've forgot about some not spam marking or what else? And there is one more thing bothering me: look there: http://www.trikata.com/pipermail/test/2009-June/thread.html same word nogādāt was posted in all of the cases, where those terrible characters appear! Maybe you know whats wrong? -- Kārlis Repsons signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam...
Hi, maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as non-spam? It just throws mail confirm e8492f19d7c336341050... -- Kārlis Repsons signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail marks mailman confirmation mail as spam...
Kālis Repsons wrote: Hi, maybe you have some recipe for making gmail treat confirmation mails as non-spam? It just throws mail confirm e8492f19d7c336341050... Confirmations are sent with Precedence: bulk which may be part of the problem, but I just tested a confirmation to a gmail.com address and it went to the inbox. As far as I know, I have no special spam whitelisting in effect on this gmail account. The one thing that might be different is the server I sent this from has VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes in mm_cfg.py which changes the subject from confirm 6e4cfe0ab337729574b1a643a231569ef0ef59ab to Your confirmation is required to join the LISTNAME mailing list and the From: from listname-requ...@example.com to listname-confirm+6e4cfe0ab337729574b1a643a231569ef0ef5...@example.com So you might try setting VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes if your MTA can properly deliver to an address such as above. That may help. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Gmail issue...
Hi all,this is not the common question about gmail feature that doesn't accept message back. I have problems with all gmail accounts (i tried with 2 different but i get the same result). I can subscribe to the list with a gmail account but i can't send emails to that. I can receive others email, but others (and the mailing list too as the archives are empty) can't receive mine. Suggestions? Thanks a lot, Dario -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail issue...
Dario Ghilardi wrote: Hi all,this is not the common question about gmail feature that doesn't accept message back. I'm glad to see that you've already gone through the FAQ and identified what your problem is not. Knowing what the problem isn't is at least as important as knowing what it is. I have problems with all gmail accounts (i tried with 2 different but i get the same result). I can subscribe to the list with a gmail account but i can't send emails to that. I can receive others email, but others (and the mailing list too as the archives are empty) can't receive mine. Hmm. In questions like this, my first response is to ask what is in the MTA logs on the target side? Is gmail even contacting the machine in question? If it is, are those messages being dropped or quarantined by spam filters? Are they being delivered to Mailman but then held for moderation? Before we can help, we need to know what is in the MTA and Mailman logs that are relevant to these messages that aren't showing up. -- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail issue...
Brad Knowles wrote: Dario Ghilardi wrote: I have problems with all gmail accounts (i tried with 2 different but i get the same result). I can subscribe to the list with a gmail account but i can't send emails to that. I can receive others email, but others (and the mailing list too as the archives are empty) can't receive mine. Hmm. In questions like this, my first response is to ask what is in the MTA logs on the target side? Is gmail even contacting the machine in question? If it is, are those messages being dropped or quarantined by spam filters? Are they being delivered to Mailman but then held for moderation? Before we can help, we need to know what is in the MTA and Mailman logs that are relevant to these messages that aren't showing up. Well, clearly you can send to this (mailman-users) list from your gmail account... In addition to what Brad indicates, what else can you tell us. Is this just one specific list with which you have this problem. Is it your list or someone else's? Do you get anything back when you attempt to post? If you are not the list owner, have you contacted the list owner? Perhaps there is some moderation issue or similar. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem
Thank you for the info, Stefan! I can realy see what i can do about the problem myself. So i guess i just have to wait using the mailing list until every body have stopped using hotmail ;-) Johnny - Original Message - From: Stefan Förster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailman-users@python.org Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem * Johnny Kosela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems to work fine. [...] Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything to do about it? hotmail.com is notoriously known for silently discarding mails. Try a search on the mailing lists for your favourite MTA (Postfix, Exim, whatever). Have a look at: http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx#SenderSolutions Ciao Stefan -- Stefan Förster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/johnny%40kosela.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem
Using mailman version 2.1.9.cp2 i have a problem with hotmail user not receiveing emails sent from a gmail account. I am just testing the list right now and have only 5 members in the list. One gmail, one hotmail and 3 others And the list seems to work fine! Except When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems to work fine. And i have also tryed sending email directly from the gmail account to the hotmail account, and that works fine! Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything to do about it? And it is NOT because the message ends up in the hotmail Junk folder (that would be an easy problem)! Johnny -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail to hotmail problem
* Johnny Kosela [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When i send a message from the gmail account to the list. Not every time but a lot of the times the message does not show up at the hotmail account. Sending mail from and to the other accounts seems to work fine. [...] Anyone have seen this problem before? Or know if there is anything to do about it? hotmail.com is notoriously known for silently discarding mails. Try a search on the mailing lists for your favourite MTA (Postfix, Exim, whatever). Have a look at: http://postmaster.msn.com/Services.aspx#SenderSolutions Ciao Stefan -- Stefan Förster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] GMail and self
Alan McConnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce below. Of course I heard nothing. But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . . ? Or not. They's known about it for a while, and several have complained. There's this thread on the subject in their support forum, in which I participated: http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-POP-and-Forwarding/browse_thread/thread/74c06b57fa724c1b/51227f15c0ab360e?lnk=gstq=mailing+listsrnum=8#51227f15c0ab360e AKA http://tinyurl.com/st2ru The last entry suggests another forum to submit a Gmail user request for making this feature configurable: https://services.google.com/inquiry/gmail_suggest/ -- Carl Paukstis [EMAIL PROTECTED] WetLeather.com / Micapeak.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spokane, Washington, USA http://www.paukstis.com/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
I have what appears to be a case of GMail eating message posts... allow me to explain. I have a user, [EMAIL PROTECTED], who posts to a Mailman list hosted on one of my servers. According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent back out to all the recipients, including [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, the email never shows up in [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s inbox, spam folder, or any other folder. I went back to check the Exim log for failed or delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyways :-) Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came from [EMAIL PROTECTED] (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since one of the recipients is [EMAIL PROTECTED], that Google drops it at the gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged? Has anybody else experienced this issue? Thanks in advance! Best Regards, Ryan Steele -- Ryan Steele Systems Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] AgoraNet, Inc. (302) 224-2475 314 E. Main Street, Suite 1 (302) 224-2552 (fax) Newark, DE 19711http://www.agora-net.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
Quoting Ryan Steele ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I have a user, [EMAIL PROTECTED], who posts to a Mailman list hosted on one of my servers. According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent back out to all the recipients, including [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, the email never shows up in [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s inbox, spam folder, or any other folder. I went back to check the Exim log for failed or delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyways :-) One of the features of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc). It's annoying as hell if you ask me, but that's gmail for you. -- Paul Tomblin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.xcski.com/ Don't you just hate them? Don't you just wanna break their ribs, cut their backs open and pull their lungs out from behind? -- Ina Faye-Lund, on script kiddies -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
Paul Tomblin wrote: Quoting Ryan Steele ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I have a user, [EMAIL PROTECTED], who posts to a Mailman list hosted on one of my servers. According to my Exim and Mailman logs, it is received by the MTA, passed on to Mailman, posted successfully, and sent back out to all the recipients, including [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, the email never shows up in [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s inbox, spam folder, or any other folder. I went back to check the Exim log for failed or delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyways :-) One of the features of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc). It's annoying as hell if you ask me, but that's gmail for you. End original message. - There is a FAQ entry on this. http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.042.htp And yeah, Gmail does some stinky things. (I am not a fan of web mail in general, or even IMAP for that matter, give me a good MUA and POP3 and I am happy). Dragon ~~~ Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus) ~~~ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
Alan McConnell wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 12:56:41PM -0400, Ryan Steele wrote: Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came from [EMAIL PROTECTED] (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since one of the recipients is [EMAIL PROTECTED], that Google drops it at the gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged? Has anybody else experienced this issue? Google/gmail is smarter than we are. It knows that since foobar sent the message, foobar knows what is in the message, and therefore doesn't want it cluttering up his(foobar's) Inbox. I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce below. Of course I heard nothing. But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . . ? Count me in for doing my part - I've written a similar letter: To the folks at GMail: It has been widely discussed and reported that mailing lists and GMail to not play nicely together. For example, if I want to implement Mailman, one of the most (if not /the/ most) popular mailing list managers, I can expect NOT to receive a response to a list posting using my GMail account, if I happen to be a member of that list. Obviously, it's because you all either A) consider the email forged when a message that claims to be from a GMail user seems to originate from another server's MTA (e.g., the mail server running Mailman), or B) decide they shouldn't know that their posting was actually received by the mailing list by conveniently dropping any message which seems to have an identical copy in the Sent folder. Now, I'm sure that you all consider it a feature that you drop it at the gate instead of sending it to the Inbox, or Spam folder, or anwhere else the user can identify as having received it, but those of us who use, administer, and run mailing list software do not find this to be either cute or a feature, as many of us (and the general public) prefer not to follow threads both in the Inbox and the Sent folders. It's not as big of an issue if you've got a previous instance of the thread in your Inbox (e.g., you aren't the creator of the post thread), but this is an annoyance if you are. I know that, up until this point, we've (the community, that is) received deafening silence on this issue, so I only find it fair to take the standard David vs. Goliath approach, and use my slingshot (blogging, and column in the local tech gazette) to toss stones. Of course, if we could simply have the option of toggling off the feature that mandates we don't receive copies that are similar to those in our Sent boxes, that would be preferable for both parties, I'm sure. Thanks for your time! Ryan Steele Systems Administrator Alan, who enjoys p*ss*ng up waterfalls :-D My co-workers and I got a kick out of that signature! (start) I would like to have mail that I send to an E-list (aka list-serve, E-mail list) from my gmail account, accepted when it is sent back to me; it should appear in my Inbox. (I get postings from other list members, so the list SW is OK). It must have taken effort for Gmail to send these messages to /dev/null. I would like that effort to be undone. Many thanks in advance, Alan McConnell --(finish) -- Ryan Steele Systems Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] AgoraNet, Inc. (302) 224-2475 314 E. Main Street, Suite 1 (302) 224-2552 (fax) Newark, DE 19711http://www.agora-net.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 12:56:41PM -0400, Ryan Steele wrote: Is it the case that since Mailman makes the posting look like it came from [EMAIL PROTECTED] (i.e., it's claiming to be that user), and since one of the recipients is [EMAIL PROTECTED], that Google drops it at the gate and refuses to even handle it because it looks forged? Has anybody else experienced this issue? Google/gmail is smarter than we are. It knows that since foobar sent the message, foobar knows what is in the message, and therefore doesn't want it cluttering up his(foobar's) Inbox. I wrote a letter to the gmail honchos about this, which I reproduce below. Of course I heard nothing. But maybe if 5 or 50 or 500 of us wrote similar messages, something might happen . . . ? Alan, who enjoys p*ss*ng up waterfalls (start) I would like to have mail that I send to an E-list (aka list-serve, E-mail list) from my gmail account, accepted when it is sent back to me; it should appear in my Inbox. (I get postings from other list members, so the list SW is OK). It must have taken effort for Gmail to send these messages to /dev/null. I would like that effort to be undone. Many thanks in advance, Alan McConnell --(finish) -- Alan McConnell : http://patriot.net/users/alan He lies. He spies. He wants us to ignore His war . . . Impeach him! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
Quoting Dragon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Paul Tomblin wrote: Quoting Ryan Steele ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): any other folder. I went back to check the Exim log for failed or delayed deliveries, only to find nothing (well, for [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyways :-) One of the features of gmail is that it doesn't show you the return of mail that you sent to mailing list, only the one you sent (so without the mailing list subject line prefix, headers, etc). It's annoying as hell if you ask me, but that's gmail for you. End original message. - There is a FAQ entry on this. http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.042.htp That FAQ entry says absolutely nothing about the issue in question. GMail isn't rejecting the message thinking it's spam, they're discarding your copy of it. Other gmail users will recieve it, it's only the sender who won't see it. -- Paul Tomblin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.xcski.com/ He who demands everything that his aircraft can give him is a pilot; he that demands one iota more is a fool. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] Gmail eats MM messages
At 2:49 PM -0400 3/14/07, Paul Tomblin wrote: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq03.042.htp That FAQ entry says absolutely nothing about the issue in question. GMail isn't rejecting the message thinking it's spam, they're discarding your copy of it. Other gmail users will recieve it, it's only the sender who won't see it. Well, you can always update the FAQ entry in question, or create a new FAQ entry for this subject. It is a community-supported effort, and the instructions for updating the FAQ entries can be found within the editing interface of the FAQ Wizard itself. -- Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED], Consultant Author LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu Slides from Invited Talks: http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
Too many thanks to Mark and Brad. This is very interesting problem according to me. I have done as follows: First, I went to auto-responder and reduced to autoresponse_graceperiod from 90 to 0. Then, I received a digest message both my gmail and my yahoo address in question in [mylist [EMAIL PROTECTED] format. Second, I went to digest options, loooked at Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in digests? and chossed No. Third, I went to membership list and cancelled to digest check box both my gmail and my yahoo address (however, these check boxes was absent before). There was only three digest (two, my gmail and yahoo addresses) all of the list and I cancelled all. Each one looked at member options and choose digest option to Closed Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose digest checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo addresses). I hate digest for mailman! Please help me. Sincerely, Levent Elpen -- http://www.iks-yayin.com http://www.cizgifilmciler.org On 10/2/06, Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Knowles wrote: At 10:22 PM +0300 10/2/06, Levent Elpen wrote: I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman lists on my server and cpanel. Please see FAQ 6.11. One runs properly and send mail to all server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses. Please see FAQ 3.42. This may or may not be a problem with Yahoo and/or Gmail blocking, but since you have two lists on the same server and both Yahoo and Gmail receive and deliver mail from one list and not the other, that rules out a lot of the things such as originating domain or IP address that are often the basis for blocking. I would compare the two list configurations side by side to see what's different. Possibly something like an explicit Reply-To: on one list but not the other or something in the subject_prefix of the blocked list is causing this. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
At 5:04 PM +0300 10/3/06, Levent Elpen wrote: Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose digest checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo addresses). Weird. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but have you checked FAQs 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, to see if any of those apply to you? I know that your description of your problem doesn't sound a whole lot like some of the problem descriptions in these FAQ entries, but I wonder if a similar issue might be occurring behind the scenes. Please understand, I would not have expected you to look at these FAQ entries before, based on your description of the problem so far. I'm just grasping at straws, trying to see if your problem is anything like some problems we have seen before. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
Thanks... I made too self-efforts about this problem before I registered this group and asked my questions to you. These FAQs never answer my questions exactly. However, it is not possible to search so long and variable questions at Python's Mailman FAQ Wizard web pages. I cancelled my group's all digest options and automatically digestable problem have not seen so far. Basically, I'm curious about why owner and moderator (addresses) did not receive his own messages to his mailboxes though he received automatic sending information individually. I did not solve it. And, why some owner and moderator messages did not deliver to some mailboxes? I think, I should reduce my maliman lists on my server. There should be ONE mailman list on my server. Otherwise, I'll go mad (!) Sincerely, L.E. -- http://www.iks-yayin.com http://www.cizgifilmciler.org On 10/3/06, Brad Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5:04 PM +0300 10/3/06, Levent Elpen wrote: Fourth, Re-check membership list and I shocked: All digest options that I cancelled re-placed! The system automatically choose digest checkbox for only these three members (two, my gmail and yahoo addresses). Weird. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but have you checked FAQs 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, to see if any of those apply to you? I know that your description of your problem doesn't sound a whole lot like some of the problem descriptions in these FAQ entries, but I wonder if a similar issue might be occurring behind the scenes. Please understand, I would not have expected you to look at these FAQ entries before, based on your description of the problem so far. I'm just grasping at straws, trying to see if your problem is anything like some problems we have seen before. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
Hi, I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman lists on my server and cpanel. One runs properly and send mail to all server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses. This list's admin address is my gmail address. This gmail address never receive from my two list mails, only yahoo receive. Now, my yahoo address does not any mail from my problem list in question in one way or another. This yahoo address receive from other list. How I can solve this problem? I did everything (configuration) but did not work. Sincerely, Levent Elpen from Turkey. -- http://www.iks-yayin.com http://www.cizgifilmciler.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail and yahoo blocked?
At 10:22 PM +0300 10/2/06, Levent Elpen wrote: I have a problem recently (I have not, before). I have two mailman lists on my server and cpanel. Please see FAQ 6.11. One runs properly and send mail to all server types include gmail and yahoo. Other, runs properly, too, but does not send specially my yahoo and gmail adresses. Please see FAQ 3.42. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA. See http://www.lopsa.org/. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] GMAIL
Sorry if this is a repeat I havent been able to find a definitive answer on this through Google so I just joined this list. Does Mailman have issues with GMAIL? I am hosting two lists and when I send an email to the list from GMAIL it makes it to the archives on the list's web interface but never mails out to everyone. Emails from hotmail or other accounts seem to work fine. SC -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] GMAIL
At 10:26 AM -0700 2005-09-09, scot condry wrote: Sorry if this is a repeat I havent been able to find a definitive answer on this through Google so I just joined this list. Does Mailman have issues with GMAIL? Not per se, no. But Gmail is large enough that when they have problems, they will frequently cause problems for everyone else who tries to send them mail. Other than that, try going to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py and search for gmail. Also, please see FAQ 1.22. I am hosting two lists and when I send an email to the list from GMAIL it makes it to the archives on the list's web interface but never mails out to everyone. Emails from hotmail or other accounts seem to work fine. Ahh, this is a different type of problem. No, I haven't heard anything like this being reported. Can you give us more details? In addition, please see FAQ 1.23. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
Brad Knowles wrote: I wonder if maybe Topica changes the content of the Message-ID: header. Most mailing list software goes to great lengths to try to avoid changing this header, because this is supposed to be the globally unique id by which this particular message is known. According to the way the standards are written, if the message id changes, then it's a different message, even if everything else about the message is identical. Yes. Topica definitely puts it's own Message-Id: header in outgoing posts. This is obviously necessary when the post originates from the Topica web interface, but they do it to posts received by e-mail too. -- Mark Sapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
I should re-emphasize that the magically blessed mailman list that gets through my/gmail's duplicate detector is THIS LIST (mailman-users@python.org). Or at least it did until I switched to digest mode. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
[Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
On my gmail account I have three subscriptions to mailman lists, all on different servers, and on two of them I don't recieve copies of my own posts, even though I've set the relevant option to yes: ] Receive your own posts to the list? ] Ordinarily, you will get a copy of every message you post to the list. ] If you don't want to receive this copy, set this option to No. ==Yes The outstanding list that does send me my own posts is this list. Does anyone know why? At least one of the bad lists is using mailman from debian sid 2.1.5-6. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
gmail is and has been having serious delivery delay issues off and on since it went open/public beta. the problems continue although they are less and farther in betweenlast few days have been bad again. --On Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:16 -0500 David Morse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On my gmail account I have three subscriptions to mailman lists, all on different servers, and on two of them I don't recieve copies of my own posts, even though I've set the relevant option to yes: ] Receive your own posts to the list? ] Ordinarily, you will get a copy of every message you post to the list. ] If you don't want to receive this copy, set this option to No. ==Yes The outstanding list that does send me my own posts is this list. Does anyone know why? At least one of the bad lists is using mailman from debian sid 2.1.5-6. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mloftis%40wgops.com Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp -- Undocumented Features quote of the moment... It's not the one bullet with your name on it that you have to worry about; it's the twenty thousand-odd rounds labeled `occupant.' --Murphy's Laws of Combat -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:16:17 -0500, David Morse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On my gmail account I have three subscriptions to mailman lists, all on different servers, and on two of them I don't recieve copies of my own posts, even though I've set the relevant option to yes: It's likely nothing to do with your Mailman settings, GMail automatically discards the incoming message from the list as a duplicate and retains only your original sent message. This applies to just about all mailing lists, Yahoogroups, LSoft ListServ, Mailman, Google Groups. The only lists where I get my messages back from the list are Topica lists, they must do something that keeps GMail from seeing it as a duplicate of my sent message. And now that I think of it, there's one other private list running on Majordomo that I also get back my own messages. Maybe that third list where you do get copies back does something like Topica, something that keeps GMail from seeing it as a duplicate. -- hth, Stephanie Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/ Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
Re: [Mailman-Users] gmail not getting own posts
At 11:46 AM -0600 2005-02-17, Stephanie wrote: Maybe that third list where you do get copies back does something like Topica, something that keeps GMail from seeing it as a duplicate. I wonder if maybe Topica changes the content of the Message-ID: header. Most mailing list software goes to great lengths to try to avoid changing this header, because this is supposed to be the globally unique id by which this particular message is known. According to the way the standards are written, if the message id changes, then it's a different message, even if everything else about the message is identical. Mailman only changes the contents of the Message-ID: header on posts that are coming across the news-to-mail gateway, and then only because it is necessary in order to avoid various problems that have been encountered in the past. -- Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showamp;file=faq01.027.htp
