[Mailman-Users] Re: protecting the web interface against subscription spam

2021-03-08 Thread AJ 
Just confirmed, the mailman server can reach the Google reCaptcha URL.
I also tried different browsers.  I do see the ReCaptcha on here:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/

Do I need any other python modules for this?


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:38 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 3/5/21 3:35 PM, Al Brussey wrote:
> > Yes they are v2 keys.
> >
> >> On Mar 5, 2021, at 5:28 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/5/21 2:10 PM, AJ wrote:
> >>>
> >>> View source of page, i see this, with the correct site key:
> >>>
> >>>  This form requires
> >>> JavaScript. >>> src="https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api.js?hl=en";>
> >>>  >>> data-sitekey="xxx">
> >>
> >>
> >> Are your keys for recaptcha v2 - v3 doesn't work with Mailman
>
>
> Well, the relevant code is in the form. This is exactly the same except
> for the data-sitekey value as for example the various lists at
>  and it works there.
>
> Have you tried different browsers? Do you see anything on the page
> between "Would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest?"
> and the Subscribe button? What happens if you submit the form?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Vako Nicolian 
I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and 
similar systems.
They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random 
ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.


See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system, 
did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.

Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?

Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.

Thanks,
Vako


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:RE:
Date:   Mon, 8 Mar 2021 10:15:48 -0500
From:   ...@rogers.com



I received Berj’s emails for moderation. I moderated them, then I did 
not receive his messages and they are not on Rogers Spam or anywhere else.


Shahe has a post in Soccer Group where he says “I haven’t watched the 
game yet!”.  I did not receive it and he did not receive a copy of his 
own message.  They are not in the spam either.


Armen has a message in Soccer.  I did not receive it and Shahe did not 
receive it.  We saw it as a reply to one of Natalino’s messages.


If you need to know anything else, let me know.

Arthur

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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Richard Damon 
On 3/8/21 10:56 AM, Vako Nicolian wrote:
> I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and
> similar systems.
> They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random
> ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.
>
> See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system,
> did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.
> Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?
>
> Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.
>
> Thanks,
> Vako
Likely a DMARC issue. You need to enable the DMARC mitigations. AOL,
Yahoo and the like will not accept messages with a From that says AOL or
YAHOO that passes through your list unless it doesn't modify the message
body or subject in any way.

-- 
Richard Damon

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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Brian Carpenter 

On 3/8/21 11:21 AM, Robert Heller wrote:

Yahoo is owned by Verizon and Verizon is driving Yahoo into the ground -- they
have already driven all YahooGroups over to groups.io. Their (so called) spam
handling is screwy. There is not really very much the OP can do about it. The
(hapless) people with AOL, Netscape, Yahoo, or Verizon E-mail addresses are
probably going to continue to have mail delivery problems from Mailman lists
-- delayed delivery, delivery to spam folders, etc. As a list admin, there is
not much you can do about it. You*could*  suggest that these people move off
Yahoo -- eg move to GMail, Outlook (bad as M$ is, Outlook seems to be less
screwy than Yahoo), or Zoho, or some other E-Mail service.


This is not correct at all. We host around a 1000 Mailman lists and list 
traffic goes to thousands of Yahoo users with no delivery problems. I 
think Verizon has improved Yahoo's response to reported problems. Using 
SPF/DKIM, DMARC mitigation (as another list member mentioned), and 
handling bounce rates are very important in keeping Yahoo happy.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: protecting the web interface against subscription spam

2021-03-08 Thread AJ 
Sure will do.  Thanks so much.

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:37 AM Brian Carpenter 
wrote:

> On 3/8/21 11:27 AM, AJ wrote:
> > Just confirmed, the mailman server can reach the Google reCaptcha URL.
> > I also tried different browsers.  I do see the ReCaptcha on here:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/
> >
> > Do I need any other python modules for this?
>
> I am leaning very heavy towards something wrong with the HTML code for
> your listinfo page. The error (if I remember correctly) is saying that
> the verification is failing which I assume is because the recaptcha UI
> element is missing. Can you send me your entire listinfo html code in a
> text file off-list so I can compare it with one of my hosted Mailman 2
> lists where I know recaptcha UI element is showing?
>
> --
> Brian Carpenter
> Harmonylists.com
> Emwd.com
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Robert Heller 
At Mon, 8 Mar 2021 11:19:12 -0500 Richard Damon  
wrote:

> 
> On 3/8/21 10:56 AM, Vako Nicolian wrote:
> > I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and
> > similar systems.
> > They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random
> > ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.
> >
> > See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system,
> > did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.
> > Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?
> >
> > Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vako
> Likely a DMARC issue. You need to enable the DMARC mitigations. AOL,
> Yahoo and the like will not accept messages with a From that says AOL or
> YAHOO that passes through your list unless it doesn't modify the message
> body or subject in any way.

Even with proper DMARC mitigations, Yahoo will likely defer messages and/or 
deliver messages from Mailman lists to peoples' spam folders.

> 

-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Change moderator or admin password (random) different for each list they were an admin or moderator for - Mailman 2.1

2021-03-08 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 3/8/21 9:20 AM, Daniel Botting wrote:
> 
>>
>> I have updated the function as below:
>>
>> I run -
>>
>> withlist --all --run list_mod.change_moderator_password2
>> first.lastn...@domain.co.uk
>>
>> Function:
>>
>> def change_moderator_password2(mlist, moderator):
>>     mlist.Lock()
>>     try:
>>     if mlist.moderator[mlist.moderator.index(moderator)]: '
>>
>>     newpassword = subprocess.check_output(
>>     ["pwgen", "-sB", "15", "1"]).strip()
>>
>>     except:
>>   print("password not changed for", (mlist.real_name, moderator))
>>     mlist.Save()

You need to unlock the list, and you should probably only save it if you
succeed. You are also missing a ')' (my fault) and a lot of other stuff.

You want something like this for the script
--
import subprocess
from Mailman.Utils import sha_new

def change_moderator_password2(mlist, moderator):
if not mlist.Locked():
mlist.Lock()
try:
if moderator in mlist.moderator:
newpassword = subprocess.check_output(
["pwgen", "-sB", "15", "1"]).strip())
mlist.mod_password = sha_new(newpassword).hexdigest()
print('%s moderator password changed to %s' %
  (mlist.real_name, newpassword))
mlist.Save()
else:
print('%s not found in %s moderator' %
  (moderator, mlist.real_name))

except subprocess.CalledProcessError as e:
print("password not changed for %s: %s\n%s" %
  (mlist.real_name, moderator, e.output))
finally:
mlist.Unlock()
--

> Apologies, you'll have to bear with me, I'm slowly learning Python. 

And the appropriate list for that is tu...@python.org


-- 
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Brian Carpenter 

On 3/8/21 10:56 AM, Vako Nicolian wrote:
I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and 
similar systems.
They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random 
ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.


See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system, 
did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.

Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?

Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.

Thanks,
Vako


This is not a Mailman 2 issue at all. It is a mail delivery issue that 
your Email provider should assist you with. Note that AOL is part of 
Yahoo. The server's mail log should show if the messages are being 
bounced or deferred. Deferred mail from Yahoo is a very common problem 
and defer messages should show up in the mail queue of the Mailman 2 server.


--
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Harmonylists.com
Emwd.com
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Change moderator or admin password (random) different for each list they were an admin or moderator for - Mailman 2.1

2021-03-08 Thread Daniel Botting 


On 08/03/2021 17:17, Daniel Botting wrote:

Hi,

First of all thank you to both on this thread, appreciated and the 
applause :)


I have updated the function as below:

I run -

withlist --all --run list_mod.change_moderator_password2 
first.lastn...@domain.co.uk


Function:

def change_moderator_password2(mlist, moderator):
    mlist.Lock()
    try:
    if mlist.moderator[mlist.moderator.index(moderator)]: '

    newpassword = subprocess.check_output(
    ["pwgen", "-sB", "15", "1"]).strip()

    except:
  print("password not changed for", (mlist.real_name, moderator))
    mlist.Save()


From what I can see this is not working as expected, the moderator 
address I'm trying to change the password is on the list named 
'Test4-list1'.


root@lists-test4:~/scripts# withlist --all --run 
list_mod.change_moderator_password2 firstname.lastn...@domain.co.uk

Importing list_mod...
Running list_mod.change_moderator_password2()...
Loading list test4-list1 (unlocked)
('password not changed for', ('Test4-list1', 
'first.lastn...@domain.co.uk'))

Loading list test4-list3 (unlocked)
('password not changed for', ('Test4-list3', 
'first.lastn...@domain.co.uk'))

Loading list mailman (unlocked)
('password not changed for', ('Mailman', 'first.lastn...@domain.co.uk'))
Loading list test4-list2 (unlocked)
('password not changed for', ('Test4-list2', 
'first.lastn...@domain.co.uk'))

Unlocking (but not saving) list: test4-list2
Finalizing

Apologies, you'll have to bear with me, I'm slowly learning Python.

Many thanks

Daniel

On 05/03/2021 17:14, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 3/4/21 10:35 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Hi, Daniel

Mark Sapiro writes:
  >
  > You need to
  > generate a password within the script.

I think

 newpassword = subprocess.run(["pwgen", "-sB", "15", "1"],
  capture_output=True,
  text=True).stdout

will do the trick (be careful about text=True, though; you may want
the default text=False so that stdout will be bytes instead of str).

Except that's Python 3 and this is Mailman 2.1 withlist so the script
needs to be Python 2. For that we would want

 newpassword = subprocess.check_output(
   ["pwgen", "-sB", "15", "1"]).strip()


The .strip() is to remove a trailing newline.

https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.check_output 




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[Mailman-Users] Re: protecting the web interface against subscription spam

2021-03-08 Thread Brian Carpenter 

On 3/8/21 11:27 AM, AJ wrote:

Just confirmed, the mailman server can reach the Google reCaptcha URL.
I also tried different browsers.  I do see the ReCaptcha on here:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/

Do I need any other python modules for this?


I am leaning very heavy towards something wrong with the HTML code for 
your listinfo page. The error (if I remember correctly) is saying that 
the verification is failing which I assume is because the recaptcha UI 
element is missing. Can you send me your entire listinfo html code in a 
text file off-list so I can compare it with one of my hosted Mailman 2 
lists where I know recaptcha UI element is showing?


--
Brian Carpenter
Harmonylists.com
Emwd.com
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Robert Heller 
At Mon, 8 Mar 2021 11:06:19 -0500 Brian Carpenter  
wrote:

> 
> On 3/8/21 10:56 AM, Vako Nicolian wrote:
> > I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and 
> > similar systems.
> > They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random 
> > ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.
> >
> > See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system, 
> > did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.
> > Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?
> >
> > Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vako
> 
> This is not a Mailman 2 issue at all. It is a mail delivery issue that 
> your Email provider should assist you with. Note that AOL is part of 
> Yahoo. The server's mail log should show if the messages are being 
> bounced or deferred. Deferred mail from Yahoo is a very common problem 
> and defer messages should show up in the mail queue of the Mailman 2 server.

Yahoo is owned by Verizon and Verizon is driving Yahoo into the ground -- they
have already driven all YahooGroups over to groups.io. Their (so called) spam
handling is screwy. There is not really very much the OP can do about it. The
(hapless) people with AOL, Netscape, Yahoo, or Verizon E-mail addresses are
probably going to continue to have mail delivery problems from Mailman lists
-- delayed delivery, delivery to spam folders, etc. As a list admin, there is
not much you can do about it. You *could* suggest that these people move off
Yahoo -- eg move to GMail, Outlook (bad as M$ is, Outlook seems to be less
screwy than Yahoo), or Zoho, or some other E-Mail service.

> 

-- 
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Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
  
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[Mailman-Users] Re: protecting the web interface against subscription spam

2021-03-08 Thread AJ 
Just to close this out.  It wound up being a Content Security Policy on the
apache server.
Thanks to all for their help.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:32 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 3/5/21 6:14 PM, Al Brussey wrote:
> > There is nothing between the digest question and the submit button.
> >
> > When I submit the form, I get this:
> >
> > reCAPTCHA validation failed: missing-input-response
>
> That's the expected response in this case.
>
> Have you tried different browsers? Is there a firewall or something that
> could be interfering with getting the recaptcha from
> https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api.js?hl=en ?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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>
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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Vako Nicolian 
I got several replies but no solutions, other than having them migrated 
to other systems, which is not possible.
In the General options, I set DMARC to both NO and MUNGE with the same 
results.
I have more than 200 subscribers and only the Yahoo and AOL users are 
having this issue, so there must be a setting that we can change to make 
it work with them also.
I am surprised that it hasn't popped up yet with you guys, or maybe your 
users haven't reported these issues since they are not getting the 
emails in the 1st place!


Note that I realized the issue when they noticed some replies to emails 
that they haven't seen...

All of them without exception are not getting back their own posts.

Hope a suggestion would finally make it work.

Vako
PS: when I reply to this list, it goes only to the poster, shouldn't it 
go to the list? I don't have the habit of doing reply all.



Robert Heller wrote on 3/8/2021 11:28 AM:

At Mon, 8 Mar 2021 11:19:12 -0500 Richard Damon  
wrote:


On 3/8/21 10:56 AM, Vako Nicolian wrote:

I am having issues with group emails sent to AOL, Yahoo email and
similar systems.
They are either not receiving their own posts or not receiving random
ones even in their junk folder and by logging to the web version.

See the email below as an example and I also logged in to his system,
did search and troubleshooting without finding those lost emails.
Have you encountered similar issues? any suggestions?

Note the below Rogers account is actually a Yahoo based email.

Thanks,
Vako

Likely a DMARC issue. You need to enable the DMARC mitigations. AOL,
Yahoo and the like will not accept messages with a From that says AOL or
YAHOO that passes through your list unless it doesn't modify the message
body or subject in any way.

Even with proper DMARC mitigations, Yahoo will likely defer messages and/or
deliver messages from Mailman lists to peoples' spam folders.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: AOL and other email systems

2021-03-08 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 3/8/21 6:16 PM, Vako Nicolian wrote:
> In the General options, I set DMARC to both NO and MUNGE with the same
> results.

General Options -> from_is_list = Munge From will change the From to the
list address for all posts while Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
dmarc_moderation_action = Munge From wiull do it more selectively.


> I have more than 200 subscribers and only the Yahoo and AOL users are
> having this issue, so there must be a setting that we can change to make
> it work with them also.

If it is due to DMARC, General Options -> from_is_list = Munge From
should help.

If you have access to the outgoing MTA logs, what do you see there for
these. Also, you should have Bounce processing -> bounce_processing =
Yes and bounce_notify_owner_on_disable = Yes. With thes settings do you
get user's delivery disabled by bounce and if so, what are the reasons
in the notices.


> I am surprised that it hasn't popped up yet with you guys, or maybe your
> users haven't reported these issues since they are not getting the
> emails in the 1st place!
> 
> Note that I realized the issue when they noticed some replies to emails
> that they haven't seen...
> All of them without exception are not getting back their own posts.


Sounds like DMARC to me.


> PS: when I reply to this list, it goes only to the poster, shouldn't it
> go to the list? I don't have the habit of doing reply all.


No it should not. Reply should go to the poster and Reply All to the
poster and the list and Reply List to the list only. This list does not
munge Reply-To: because we think that is not a good thing. See
 for some of the
reasons why.


-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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