Re: [mailop] [E] Re: BIMI boycott?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I did, not sure there was some major outcry from those who receive email
about not seeing logos. Authentication was argued as a reason for this from
the start. That reason has been diminished, so please try again to justify
why this is needed

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 6:22 PM Marcel Becker via mailop 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:38 PM Brett Schenker 
> wrote:
>
>> I've read that, multiple times.
>>
>
> Then I am sure you read everything on that page and not just the first
> sentence.
>
>
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Re: [mailop] [E] Re: BIMI boycott?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I've read that, multiple times.

"BIMI promotes authentication, which is instrumental in protecting against
some forms of  abuse."

Cool, Google and Yahoo just made it a necessity for bulk sending which
downthread it has been said this is who this is primarily for.

So, I ask again, with Google and Yahoo now demanding authentication for
bulk email, what is the point of BIMI?

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:10 PM Marcel Becker via mailop 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 1:12 PM Brett Schenker via mailop <
> mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
>
>> Since DMARC is now required by Google and Yahoo for bulk sending, it kind
>> of makes BIMI not as needed. I'm still not sure what BIMI solves that
>> enforcing authentication doesn't.
>>
>
> https://bimigroup.org/mailbox-providers/
>
>
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Re: [mailop] BIMI boycott?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Since DMARC is now required by Google and Yahoo for bulk sending, it kind
of makes BIMI not as needed. I'm still not sure what BIMI solves that
enforcing authentication doesn't.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 3:44 PM Gellner, Oliver via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

>
> > On 10.01.2024 at 17:21 Olga Fischer via mailop wrote:
> >
> > Many bigger mailers are blogging about BIMI.
> > As far as I see its exclusively for brands.
> > It has 2 big barriers for entry:
> > - Expensive bespoke cert oids
> > - Registered trademark logos
> >
> > As from my perspective of independent mailing between humans: I fear
> this might be not just a carrot for doing DMARC, but also making
> independent mailers less credible in the UX of mainstream mailer users.
>
> Carrot or not, BIMI can actually be a good incentive to increase the
> adoption of DMARC.
> For ESPs a widespread usage of DMARC is a welcome addition to their
> filtering process, as it makes the impersonation of foreign domains more
> difficult. At the same time setting up DMARC on the sender side can be a
> lot of work, especially for large enterprises, which have hundreds of
> sources where emails are being generated or sent. Finding and adding proper
> authentication to all of them before being able to enable a DMARC reject
> policy requires a non-negligible amount of resources. If you can present a
> direct and clear benefit in return („our logo is going to be displayed next
> to our messages“), the management might be more willing to grant approval
> for it.
>
> I don’t see the fact that BIMI is currently not available to single users
> as a real problem, as their identity is usually not used in phishing
> campaigns anyway. Nobody sends phishing messages that try to impersonate
> Bob the builder.
> Neither SPF, nor DKIM nor DMARC are suitable to identify single users, so
> BIMI which builds upon them cannot magically add this feature. If you want
> to authenticate single users there’s S/MIME.
>
> > Do you have input on how non-marketing mailers deal with this?
> > Because obviously its for brand-logos, as in marketing mails. Not for
> user 2 user.
>
> Not at all. BIMI is about DMARC authenticated emails. Their content
> doesn’t matter. If I‘d send you a personal email off-list and you use a MUA
> that supports BIMI a logo will be displayed next to it.
>
> > Its also may be yet another reader-engagement tracker. Why do those
> things always have to be out of band.
>
> Well, there’s no automated way to connect a logo to a domain. The BIMI
> group has decided to build upon the work of trademark offices to connect
> logos to companies and then set up a manual verification process to connect
> the company to a domain. There might be other ways to do this, but you
> cannot just use DNS or a message header to link a logo to a domain as this
> would be trivial to exploit.
>
> Either way, BIMI is not suitable for reader tracking as you cannot provide
> different logo URIs for each recipient.
>
> —
> BR Oliver
>
> 
>
> dmTECH GmbH
> Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe
> Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777
> dmt...@dm.de * www.dmTECH.de
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> 
> Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen
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[mailop] Proofpoint contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Anyone from Proofpoint on here? Have a question/need some help off list.
Thanks!

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[mailop] Constant Contact help?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Anyone from Constant Contact on here? Need some urgent help with something.

Brett

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Re: [mailop] HR 8160 and SB 4409: The "You're not allowed to run political campaign email through your spam filter" act

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

"They can say whatever they want, but .. I'm +1 with John. They have a
*lot* to learn about email and how it works"

Unless the language has changed since I read it, it says you need to report
on how much goes to spam. If you send it to quarantine instead, you can
still report it as 0 going to spam, completely comply with it, and none can
get to the inbox.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 8:21 PM Michael Rathbun via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:11:24 -0700, Justin Scott via mailop
>  wrote:
>
> >Interestingly any email "operator" with fewer than 500 employees or less
> >than $5 billion in annual revenue is exempt, so clearly targeted at the
> >major providers and not self-hosted operators or small hosting companies,
> >thankfully.
>
> If this misbegotten bit of sludge ever makes it to law status, I shall be
> applying for an exclusion.  I have less than US$1.00 revenue, and exactly
> one
> employee, but I DEMAND to be one of those operations included in its scope.
>
> Of the over 9,000 political emails that have arrived here from the RNC, the
> Trump Organization, the saveamerica45 pac, conservativeintel.com   ad
> nauseam, not a single one has reached what might be construed as its
> intended
> recipient.
>
> And that ain't changing.  (There is a small trickle of Democrat spam, but
> that
> gets suppressed as well.)
>
> The problem:  not a single one of the addresses the injured party or
> parties
> intended to send to actually delivers to a human being who could have
> agreed
> to receive any large or small amount of used food.  Every single one of
> them
> was scraped, purchased, traded for, stolen or made up out of various
> elemental
> gases.
>
> mdr
> --
>  "There are no laws here, only agreements."
> -- Masahiko
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Google's Request to the FEC about Allowing Political Email to Bypass Spam Filtering

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

It's only about 33% that use tabs last I saw. Is that still the case? Not
opposed to the tab as long as I can just hide and ignore everything in that
tab. Right now, I have things trained really well to send everything
political to spam, which is saying something since that's the space I work
in.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 1:08 PM Anne Mitchell via mailop 
wrote:

>
>
> > On Jul 9, 2022, at 8:15 PM, Brett Schenker via mailop 
> wrote:
> >
> > Just put it all in quarantine. It only requires reporting on how much is
> going to spam. Reporting 0 would technically be correct since quarantine is
> different.
>
> Or a 'Political' tab, just like the 'Promotions' tab.
>
> Anne
>
> ---
> Outsource your email deliverability headaches to us, and get to the inbox,
> guaranteed!
> www.GetToTheInbox.com
>
> Anne P. Mitchell,  Esq.
> CEO Get to the Inbox by SuretyMail
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal email marketing
> law)
> Author: The Email Deliverability Handbook
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Dean Emeritus, Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
> Prof. Emeritus, Lincoln Law School
> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Counsel Emeritus, eMail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
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Re: [mailop] Google's Request to the FEC about Allowing Political Email to Bypass Spam Filtering

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Just put it all in quarantine. It only requires reporting on how much is
going to spam. Reporting 0 would technically be correct since quarantine is
different.

On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 10:05 PM Carl Byington via mailop 
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On Sat, 2022-07-09 at 17:22 -0600, Anne Mitchell via mailop wrote:
> > "It shall be unlawful for an operator of an email service to use a
> > filtering algorithm to apply a label to an email sent to an email
> > account from a political campaign unless the owner or user of the
> > account took action to apply such a label."
>
> Do you have an opinion on the meaning of "apply a label"? We don't apply
> labels - we either accept or reject incoming mail. Does the smtp
> response "550 5.7.1 ESAD" count as applying a label?
>
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>
> iHMEAREKADMWIQSuFMepaSkjWnTxQ5QvqPuaKVMWwQUCYsoo5BUcY2FybEBmaXZl
> LXRlbi1zZy5jb20ACgkQL6j7milTFsHjKgCbBBY3SlBpSSvE4UZ3N4FmcjMmHtYA
> n1EuGPvSH7CFOMcM6O/ALU8e4j96
> =gSvj
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Spectrum/Charter.net Contact Available?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I too am looking for a contact for issues I'm seeing with a client, so
would appreciate being pinged offline as well.

Brett

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 10:04 AM Chris Truitt via mailop 
wrote:

> We're seeing intermittent AUP#In-1310 bounces from rr.com and other
> Spectrum/Charter owned domains.
> Not getting a reply through normal channels.
>
> Can a Spectrum contact reach me offline?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris Truitt
>
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Re: [mailop] gmail changes today?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I also received some email that was very clearly spam straight into my
priority box. I know others have said the same. Something broke today for
at least a little while.

Brett

On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 9:30 PM Zube via mailop  wrote:

> Looks like something changed at gmail today, at least for us.
>
> Huge swathes of email are being rejected with:
>
> Our system has detected that this message is likely unsolicited mail.
>
> It has nothing to do with the content of the message.  It can be long,
> medium or short.  Stuff that I've been sending for years to addresses
> I've been sending for years is now marked in this way.
>
> It's also inconsistent.  I have a crontab output that gets sent to a
> gmail user 3x a day.  It contains the exact same content each time.
> Twice today, no problem.  Third time, bounced as unsolicited mail.
> For a while, even messages with just the word "test" were being marked
> as such.
>
> Is anyone else seeing similiar behavior today?
>
> Cheers.
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Re: [mailop] WTaF? I just got spammed BY Active Campaign

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

They've been emailing me for a while now for an address that has nothing to
do with the email work I do. I've been trying to figure out how they got
the address.

Brett

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 5:38 PM Anne Mitchell via mailop 
wrote:

> WTaF?? (Excuse the unladylike acronym.) I just got spammed BY Active
> Campaign. Not _through_ Active Campaign, *by* Active Campaign.  For their
> services.
>
> Anyone else?
>
> So far as I'm concerned, when an ESP transits spam, well, it doesn't
> necessarily mean "block on sight" because it depends on how they deal with
> hit.
>
> But when an ESP *themselves* is spamming, that's a whole other kettle of
> hurt.
>
> Here's the spam:
>
> --
>
> Hi Anne,
>
> Your products and Shopify store look great. But great products and a nice
> looking website aren’t all that’s required to drive customer loyalty; you
> need to deliver a great customer experience.
>
> ActiveCampaign’s industry leading customer experience automation (CXA)
> platform is used by over 130,000 businesses around the globe to:
> • Ensure customers that visit your website get the same consistent
> experience across all channels including; email, social media, SMS and live
> chat.
> • Automatically turn Shopify data into personalized communications
> that drive impactful results in a few clicks.
> If you’d like to learn more about how companies like The Skin Research
> Institute have integrated ActiveCampaign with Shopify to achieve a 330%
> increase in sales in just five months, I’d love to chat further.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Alex Esquivel
> ActiveCampaign / Business Development Representative
> Schedule Your Call Here
> (773) 657-9214
> aesqui...@activecampaign.com
> 1 North Dearborn St, 5th Floor, Chicago IL, 60602, USA
>
>
>
> If you'd like me to stop sending you emails, please click here
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Re: [mailop] So uh... Zoom/Sendgrid... How's that webinar spam investigation coming?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Coming from the political/non-profit side of things, when the revenue drops
is when they pay attention. If open rates are 0 or blocks are through the
roof, they take notice and will change their habits. The people that click
spend don't want to explain to their bosses why things have tanked.

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 7:24 PM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

>
> Brielle wrote:
>
> > Litigation is WAY overused to resolve issues.
>
> I generally agree.  However, on the other hand it's a pretty good way to
> get the attention of people who *know* they are doing wrong, and continue
> to do it unrepentingly all the way to the bank.
>
> Anne "Cartoony at Large" Mitchell
>
> --
> Anne P. Mitchell,  Esq.
> Dean of Cyberlaw and Cyber Security, Lincoln Law School
> Author: Section 6* of the Federal Email Marketing Law (CAN-SPAM)
>  *Why yes, I *did* have a certain unrepentant coffee entity in mind
>when I wrote the vendor liability section of CAN-SPAM
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Former Counsel: MAPS Anti-Spam Blacklist
> Location: Boulder, Colorado
>
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Re: [mailop] GMail 550 5.1.1?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I had it for one on one email to addresses I know are good.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 7:19 PM Tara Natanson via mailop 
wrote:

> Sorry that sent before I finished typing.
>
> We are seeing huge spikes in those codes as well.  Some testing shows that
> valid addresses are getting that response intermittently as well.
>
> Tara Natanson
> Constant Contact
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 7:00 PM Tara Natanson 
> wrote:
>
>> Heh, I  just sent the same thing.   We starte seeing it at 15:30 Eastern
>> US time.
>>
>> Tara
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 6:58 PM Bez Thomas via mailop 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone else seeing repeated, but intermittent, 550-5.1.1s from Gmail for
>>> valid addresses?
>>>
>>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to
>>> reach does not exist. Please try
>>> 550-5.1.1 double-checking the recipient's email address for typos or
>>> 550-5.1.1 unnecessary spaces. Learn more at
>>> 550 5.1.1  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=NoSuchUser
>>> --
>>> Bez Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [mailop] 0Spam down

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Is this still on the fritz? My email notifications just lit up with dozens
of listings from IPs but when I click to find out more, the system just
errors out.

Brett

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 1:02 PM Al Iverson via mailop 
wrote:

> Looks like 0spam is down again.
>
> Cheers,
> Al
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 8:04 AM lukn via mailop  wrote:
> >
> > Valli sez it's down too:
> >
> > > 0spam URLBL Listings
> > > DNS request failed: The name server was unable to process this query
> > due to a problem with the name server.
> >
> > I also only get SERVFAIL from my resolver.
> >
> >
> > On 09.10.20 10:33, Graeme Fowler via mailop wrote:
> > > On 9 Oct 2020, at 09:22, Hetzner Blacklist via mailop <
> mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
> > >> It's just surprising the website is down (as 0spam.fusionzero.com
> > >> forwards to 0spam.org).
> > >
> > > It's working for me (on AS786).
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > > ___
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> > >
> > ___
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> > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>
>
>
> --
> Al Iverson // Wombatmail // Chicago
> Song a day! https://www.wombatmail.com
> Deliverability! https://spamresource.com
> And DNS Tools too! https://xnnd.com
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Re: [mailop] Comcast contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I should add, so that folks don't just think "grey listing," that some
emails are being delivered twice so something is up either at our mailer or
on Comcast, so trying to narrow it down and need some help.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Brett Schenker 
wrote:

> I was hoping there's someone on here that might be with Comcast I can chat
> with. We're seeing some issues with them where the email sends but then
> isn't delivered for multiple days later and get the 250ok response. It
> could be grey listing, it could be something else but hoping to see if
> there was someone that might help diagnose where the issue is. Thanks!
>
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett Schenker
> Man of Many Things, Including
> 5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
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>
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>


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[mailop] Comcast contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I was hoping there's someone on here that might be with Comcast I can chat
with. We're seeing some issues with them where the email sends but then
isn't delivered for multiple days later and get the 250ok response. It
could be grey listing, it could be something else but hoping to see if
there was someone that might help diagnose where the issue is. Thanks!

Brett

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[mailop] Optonline contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

We've been having some issues delivering to optonline, is there anyone from
there on here or anyone have suggestions on how to reach them?

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[mailop] Yahoo/AOL/ATT Block due to COVID content

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Reaching out to see if there's someone with OATH (or someone else) who can
help with a content block from a nonprofit that's trying to get an email
out regarding COVID. Those domains are returning a blocked response due to
content so we're guessing that's the reason.

Thanks!

Brett

-- 
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Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
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[mailop] Oath/Yahoo/AOL

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Anyone with Yahoo/AOL I can chat with off-list? We're seeing lots of
delays/timeouts for one segment. I know why but trying to figure out a
solution and was hoping to chat with someone.

-- 
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Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

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[mailop] Authentication at Office365

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I read this and was wondering if anyone has more info.
https://wordtothewise.com/2020/03/authentication-at-office365/

Particularly I'm wondering if the "from" address mentioned is the visible
from address or does it mean the from address in the header? Anyone know?

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[mailop] Anyone from Cloudmark?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

If so, can you ping me off list? Thanks!

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Man of Many Things, Including
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[mailop] Need info on a sender

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I'm trying to stop sales from bringing on a new client who doesn't pass the
smell test to me. The data I got out of ReturnPath says they're a
troublemaker and will cause us issues, for all of our clients likely.
Sadly, that data point alone probably isn't enough to kill the sale.

I was hoping if anyone had info on the below domains it could help end this
before it's my headache.

info.rebuildusa@mailservices7.com
rebuildusa.org

Thanks for any help or info anyone can provide.

Brett

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[mailop] Cloudmark contact

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Is there a contact for Cloudmark on here? We're filling out the form but
having an issue with an IP range warm up so was hoping there was someone to
chat with and make it go a bit quicker/easier. Thanks!

Brett

-- 
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Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

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[mailop] AT Contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

We're warming up some new IPs and ran into an issue with AT Though we
followed their procedure we still haven't heard from them. Is there anyone
on here that I can chat with? Thanks!

Brett

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Man of Many Things, Including
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Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

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Re: [mailop] Best Re-engagement Email

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I agree with everything All said and regularly seeing "winback" campaigns
employed and work to varying degrees.

Depending on the type of sender, I find questionnaires work well in this
scenario as part of the chain of emails. Those emails for me have always
gotten high engagement and you get data you can act upon after.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 11:42 AM Al Iverson via mailop 
wrote:

> We save various examples internally and share them with some clients
> upon request, but really, I can't share it externally. I can
> summarize, though.
>
> My suggestion is avoid most of the advice here from non-deliverability
> consultants. This is one area where everybody has their own idea of
> best practices but few have implemented or tested at scale.
>
> A few things that I recommend, based on experience:
> - It should be HTML and branded as you, fully authenticate properly,
> etc. (Yes, some people here hate HTML. They're not the target demo.)
> - Nothings beats a big ole clickable "stay on the list" button.
> - We actually found in some tests that you get more responses if you
> have both a big YES and a big NO button. The "no" button is just your
> normal unsub link. But of course, this feels silly because you're
> going to drop non-responders anyway. But it seems to work.
> - If you can offer up something in exchange for opting in, like a site
> wide discount if a retailer, that will help improve response rates.
>
> Keep in mind that you truly have to stop mailing non-responders, or
> else you're not actually doing re-engagement filtering / reconfirming
> properly.
>
> Thus there are three categories of subscriber responses:
> - Clicked on unsub link or "no" button. Stop mailing.
> - Clicked on opt-in link or "yes" button. Continue mailing.
> - Did nothing. Send one reminder mail asking them again to opt-in in
> 7-10 days. After that, let them go. Stop mailing them.
>
> The deeper you dig into your historical subscriber database, the worse
> deliverability is going to be. This is one of multiple reasons why you
> can't just take all your 10 year old addresses and try to run them
> through this process every year. This is something you do once for
> subscribers who have stopped engaging with your emails. (What that
> cutoff point is depends on your industry and how dire your
> deliverability issues may be.)
>
> Cheers,
> Al Iverson
>
>
> --
> al iverson // wombatmail // chicago
> http://www.aliverson.com
> http://www.spamresource.com
>
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[mailop] Spamhaus contact

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

We got our entire range listed due to an action of a new client that wasn't
vetted by sales. I pinged the normal Spamhaus channel but wondering if
there's anyone I can reach out to speed up the process.

-- 
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Man of Many Things, Including
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[mailop] Comcast contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

We're warming up some IPs and one we're getting the response below but
there's no Zen listing (which is what the error code indicates). So was
hoping to chat with someone to figure out what may be the cause of this and
get it resolved.

1565711881@BD/30-27744-70ED25D5@BD/30-27744-70ED25D5@66/AA-27744-25D5@P
@comcast.net@0@mailoutgroup009@mailout933@12@0@1.00@68.87.20.5@554
resimta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net resimta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net
192.133.16.43 found on one or more DNSBLs, see
http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#BL01

[root@ASV11MTAM001 ~]# date -d@1565711881

Tue Aug 13 11:58:01 EDT 2019

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Re: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Correct however that same system gives the average if the entire user
network and in this case Gabbard is well above the rest of ReturnPath's
network. That pretty much dismisses the complaint that they're somehow
being burdened or targeted.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 4:01 PM Daniele Nicolodi  wrote:

> On 26-07-2019 14:38, Brett Schenker via mailop wrote:
> > They've always been a bit cagey when I asked but from what I've been
> > told it's opted-in individuals and data comes directly from email
> > providers they have agreements with. While it's not perfect, it does
> > seem to do a decent job of telling trends.
>
> Investigating one opaque system with data from another equivalently
> opaque system does not give much confidence on the obtained results.
> Your statement above seems to suggest that some statistical sampling may
> be involved. If the details of the sampling are not known, bias could
> affect the "measurement". This may be good enough to optimize
> deliverability for some source, but I would not use it to derive
> conclusions about the system under investigation.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
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Re: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

They've always been a bit cagey when I asked but from what I've been told
it's opted-in individuals and data comes directly from email providers they
have agreements with. While it's not perfect, it does seem to do a decent
job of telling trends. In this case, I'd read it as "they don't have a
problem."

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:21 PM Daniele Nicolodi  wrote:

> On 26-07-2019 13:21, Brett Schenker via mailop wrote:
> > It's been 98.4% inbox placement according to ReturnPath PartnerApp since
> > March... so... yeah...
>
> How does ReturnPath obtain those numbers? At a quick glance I didn't
> find a technical explanation on their website.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>


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Man of Many Things, Including
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Re: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

It's been 98.4% inbox placement according to ReturnPath PartnerApp since
March... so... yeah...

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 3:12 PM Mike Hammett via mailop 
wrote:

> IANAL, but I would also assume that it would have to be a remarkably
> higher rate of SPAM classification to show as intentful. 5% more than
> anyone else doesn't really mean anything.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Brett Schenker via mailop" 
> *To: *"Michael Wise" 
> *Cc: *"mailop" 
> *Sent: *Friday, July 26, 2019 1:53:30 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google
>
> I first have to say Gabbard is a client so what I can say is limited but...
>
> Using pretty available info from ReturnPath (that anyone that pays can
> get), I have no idea where they're getting the idea they're having
> deliverability issues.
>
> Knowing the bigger space,and the stats to go with it, to say there's bias
> or anything close is pretty laughable.
>
> Google just needs to respond with how much is going to spam for her vs.
> other candidates and other senders and the email aspect ends pretty quickly.
>
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:43 PM Michael Wise via mailop 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> And since, as I gather, her political speech emails are not coming from a
>> .GOV address, this could get complicated.
>>
>> I do wonder whom else will be made a party to such a lawsuit in short
>> order.
>>
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Michael.
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Michael J Wise*
>> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>>
>> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>>
>> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool
>> <http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mailop  On Behalf Of Anne P. Mitchell,
>> Esq. via mailop
>> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 11:17 AM
>> To: Mail Op 
>> Subject: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google
>>
>>
>>
>> While at first blush the big news about this lawsuit is that Google is
>> being sued for suppressing presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard's
>> campaign's ads, there is also a piece of the lawsuit where they are suing
>> Google because (they claim) a disproportionate number of her campaign's
>> email was being put in the Gmail spam folder.  They talk about the opacity
>> of how the spam filter works, etc...
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, of course, years ago, when I was at MAPS, we dealt with several
>> lawsuits from spammers about how unfair it was that they were being
>> filtered because of the RBL, etc., etc., and they fairly roundly lost.
>>
>>
>>
>> This however is different, because we have a political candidate claiming
>> that Google is suppressing *political* speech, the free pass for which is
>> baked right into CAN-SPAM, as we all know only too well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is our plain English write up of it, which I doubt anyone here needs
>> (the plain English part), but we also are hosting a full copy of the
>> lawsuit, which is linked here as well:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinternetpatrol.com%2Fpresidential-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-sues-google-over-disabling-ads-and-going-to-the-spam-folder-full-text-of-lawsuit-included%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C90d815686616428d913e08d711f5f397%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636997620363320612sdata=CzxgFQPrwO0o%2BtUWzouFkmwRrpP0Zpd3SHX6NQN2KBQ%3Dreserved=0
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinternetpatrol.com%2Fpresidential-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-sues-google-over-disabling-ads-and-going-to-the-spam-folder-full-text-of-lawsuit-included%2F=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C90d815686616428d913e08d711f5f397%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7

Re: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I first have to say Gabbard is a client so what I can say is limited but...

Using pretty available info from ReturnPath (that anyone that pays can
get), I have no idea where they're getting the idea they're having
deliverability issues.

Knowing the bigger space,and the stats to go with it, to say there's bias
or anything close is pretty laughable.

Google just needs to respond with how much is going to spam for her vs.
other candidates and other senders and the email aspect ends pretty quickly.

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 2:43 PM Michael Wise via mailop 
wrote:

>
>
> And since, as I gather, her political speech emails are not coming from a
> .GOV address, this could get complicated.
>
> I do wonder whom else will be made a party to such a lawsuit in short
> order.
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> Michael.
>
> --
>
> *Michael J Wise*
> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>
> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>
> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool
>  ?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mailop  On Behalf Of Anne P. Mitchell,
> Esq. via mailop
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 11:17 AM
> To: Mail Op 
> Subject: [mailop] Lawsuit to watch: Tulsi v. Google
>
>
>
> While at first blush the big news about this lawsuit is that Google is
> being sued for suppressing presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard's
> campaign's ads, there is also a piece of the lawsuit where they are suing
> Google because (they claim) a disproportionate number of her campaign's
> email was being put in the Gmail spam folder.  They talk about the opacity
> of how the spam filter works, etc...
>
>
>
> Now, of course, years ago, when I was at MAPS, we dealt with several
> lawsuits from spammers about how unfair it was that they were being
> filtered because of the RBL, etc., etc., and they fairly roundly lost.
>
>
>
> This however is different, because we have a political candidate claiming
> that Google is suppressing *political* speech, the free pass for which is
> baked right into CAN-SPAM, as we all know only too well.
>
>
>
> Here is our plain English write up of it, which I doubt anyone here needs
> (the plain English part), but we also are hosting a full copy of the
> lawsuit, which is linked here as well:
>
>
>
>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinternetpatrol.com%2Fpresidential-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-sues-google-over-disabling-ads-and-going-to-the-spam-folder-full-text-of-lawsuit-included%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C90d815686616428d913e08d711f5f397%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636997620363320612sdata=CzxgFQPrwO0o%2BtUWzouFkmwRrpP0Zpd3SHX6NQN2KBQ%3Dreserved=0
>
>
>
> Anne
>
>
>
> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>
> Dean of Cybersecurity & Cyberlaw, Lincoln Law School of San Jose
> CEO/President, Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
>
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Legislative Consultant GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Board of Directors, Asilomar
> Microcomputer Workshop Legal Counsel: The CyberGreen Institute Former
> Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
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>
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Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

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Re: [mailop] Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I've noticed a shift since mid-June but our IPs improved overall and have
done so even more during that time frame. More are green now than before.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 9:38 AM Michael Ellis via mailop 
wrote:

> One of my clients is also seeing this for some of his custoers (ESP)
>
>
> >  Seeing the same symptom, but as of 7/3.  Quick spot check so far isn't
> > showing performance problems... hopefully an isolated reporting issue.
> > Allen K
> >
> >
> > On Friday, July 5, 2019, 07:58:53 AM CDT, Tracey Crawford via mailop
> >  wrote:
> >
> >  I am also seeing a drop from green to red for some of my customers on
> > July 2nd.
> > Tracey CrawfordLead Deliverability Analyst, SparkPost
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 7:02 AM  wrote:
> >
> > Send mailop mailing list submissions to
> > Â  Â  Â  Â  mailop@mailop.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > Â  Â  Â  Â  https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > Â  Â  Â  Â  mailop-requ...@mailop.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > Â  Â  Â  Â  mailop-ow...@mailop.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of mailop digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > Â  Â 1. Re: Can't sign up for MSFT SNDS? (Hetzner Blacklist)
> > Â  Â 2. Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd (Mathieu
> Bourdin)
> > Â  Â 3. Re: Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd
> > Â  Â  Â  (Richelo Killian)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 14:25:03 +0200
> > From: Hetzner Blacklist 
> > To: mailop@mailop.org
> > Subject: Re: [mailop] Can't sign up for MSFT SNDS?
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Hi Al,
> >
> > I just tried adding a /16 that we bought a while ago but aren't using
> > yet. There were no issues adding it to the SNDS.
> >
> > Having said that, I've often had issues in the past adding ranges. Most
> > of the time simply waiting and trying again a few hours or days later
> > worked.
> >
> > Make sure the WHOIS data is correct, since Microsoft relies heavily on
> > that.
> >
> > Also, if you're able to, maybe you can signup using the AS number, I've
> > never had issues with that.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Bastiaan van den Berg
> >
> >
> > Am 04.07.2019 um 13:00 schrieb Al Iverson :
> >> Anybody else having trouble signing new ranges up for Microsoft SNDS?
> >> When submitting the access request, I get a generic "We're sorry! An
> >> error has occurred.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 08:12:17 +
> > From: Mathieu Bourdin 
> > To: "mailop@mailop.org" 
> > Subject: [mailop] Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd
> > Message-ID:
> > Â  Â  Â  Â
> > <
> am0pr09mb371519dd559a8edf3bcb3ec996...@am0pr09mb3715.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > We just saw that Gmail Postmaster's Tools shows a very unusual amount of
> > our IP's as < bad > in the graphs.
> > Domain reputation seems unaffected, but basically we see around 50% of
> our
> > IPs for July 2nd and 75% for July 3 going from green to red.
> > I saw no changes in sending habits from the various customers I checked
> > (as they all have dedicated IPs it's fairly straightforward).
> >
> > Some other French ESP representatives I chatted with see similar cases,
> > IÂ  wanted to check with others if they saw the same things and, if luck
> > will have it a Gmail Postmaster team member happens to be online and they
> > have some time to look it up, that would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mathieu Bourdin
> > Dolist Deliverability team.
> >
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <
> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/mailop/attachments/20190705/8b994a03/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 01:53:25 -0700
> > From: Richelo Killian 
> > To: "mailop@mailop.org" 
> > Subject: Re: [mailop] Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd
> > Message-ID:
> > Â  Â  Â  Â
> > 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I actually had several go from medium to high. No down movement at all
> for
> > the IP’s I monitor.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Richelo Killian
> >
> > From: Mathieu Bourdin via mailop  
> > Reply: Mathieu Bourdin  
> > Date: July 5, 2019 at 10:15:42
> > To: mailop@mailop.org  
> > Subject:Â  [mailop] Gmail Postmaster IP reputation shift on July 2nd
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > We just saw that Gmail Postmaster’s Tools shows a very unusual amount
> of
> > our IP’s as « bad » in the graphs.
> > Domain reputation seems unaffected, but basically we see around 50% of
> our
> 

Re: [mailop] Barracuda IP listings

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I had the same issue yesterday and a smaller amount over the weekend. We
don't normally have any listings but suddenly 70ish?

The ones from the weekend, I went through the normal process to remove them
and nothing has happened yet when they're normally removed the next day.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 8:07 AM Kieran Cooper via mailop 
wrote:

> A couple of our customers at SparkPost have started seeing widespread
> listings of multiple IP addresses on Barracuda’s blacklist and someone
> suggested that something might have gone wrong there overnight.
>
> Does anyone have any info on what might be happening and, more
> importantly, whether they are already working to fix it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kieran
>
> Technical Account Manager, SparkPost
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Re: [mailop] About to blacklist Marketo - has anyone received non-spam from them?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Yup, believe that happens in California a lot. Signing up to vote too it
happens.

On Tue, May 28, 2019, 6:31 PM Michael Wise via mailop 
wrote:

>
>
> Or … someone using a known spamtrap address on a DMV email contact
> address, and then that list being handed over to their apparent Member of
> Congress, who proceeded to send constituent emails to it … on the grounds
> that of course it was Opt-In (but not verified by a round-trip
> confirmation).
>
>
>
> Based on a True Story.
>
>
>
> Aloha,
>
> Michael.
>
> --
>
> *Michael J Wise*
> Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
>
> "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
>
> Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool
> <http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?
>
>
>
> *From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Rob McEwen via
> mailop
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 28, 2019 3:05 PM
> *To:* mailop@mailop.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] About to blacklist Marketo - has anyone received
> non-spam from them?
>
>
>
> On 5/28/2019 4:21 PM, Brett Schenker via mailop wrote:
>
> Two real world examples would be elected officials to be contacted and
> some corporations to be contacted. The former absolutely has reasons to be
> bulk emailed, the latter possibly too. Both would be "published" email
> addresses. For your average person, probably not but it's not a hard 100%
> rule as stated.
>
>
> This would apply to someone hand-typing an email sent via regular email
> hosting (not an ESP) to their elected representative, which absolutely
> wouldn't be spam. However, it would *still* be spam for a sender to
> subscribe such an email address to mailing list sent via an ESP if there
> wasn't either COI or some kind of direct and explicit business relationship
> between that specific email address' past usage - and the sender.
>
> (I worded it this way because - suppose an elected Representative became a
> member of an organization and started receiving non-spam emails from them -
> this permission is then still limited to the particular email used for that
> signup or login (etc) - and therefore some kind of OTHER "role account"
> email for that Representative's office, that is displayed online, shouldn't
> also be added to such a distribution list by the sender.)
>
> --
>
> Rob McEwen
>
> https://www.invaluement.com 
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.invaluement.com=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C603530bdcb9b4965935208d6e3b9eb53%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636946785001784920=wiu%2FZTG%2BpK6ZnvArdNPodUHKWh1nXbQshIJ6gMld6hk%3D=0>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [mailop] About to blacklist Marketo - has anyone received non-spam from them?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Yes, I'm not talking random person just adding those addresses in this case.

A prime real world example is an org updating state leaders on an issue.
There's sort of a relationship, relationship, it is constituent feedback,
it is bulk email. I'm sure some would call it spam but it is an example of
why they would publish their address and based in feedback, they want
though haven't opted in.

On Tue, May 28, 2019, 6:15 PM Rob McEwen via mailop 
wrote:

> On 5/28/2019 4:21 PM, Brett Schenker via mailop wrote:
>
> Two real world examples would be elected officials to be contacted and
> some corporations to be contacted. The former absolutely has reasons to be
> bulk emailed, the latter possibly too. Both would be "published" email
> addresses. For your average person, probably not but it's not a hard 100%
> rule as stated.
>
>
> This would apply to someone hand-typing an email sent via regular email
> hosting (not an ESP) to their elected representative, which absolutely
> wouldn't be spam. However, it would *still* be spam for a sender to
> subscribe such an email address to mailing list sent via an ESP if there
> wasn't either COI or some kind of direct and explicit business relationship
> between that specific email address' past usage - and the sender.
>
> (I worded it this way because - suppose an elected Representative became a
> member of an organization and started receiving non-spam emails from them -
> this permission is then still limited to the particular email used for that
> signup or login (etc) - and therefore some kind of OTHER "role account"
> email for that Representative's office, that is displayed online, shouldn't
> also be added to such a distribution list by the sender.)
>
> --
> Rob McEwenhttps://www.invaluement.com
>
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Re: [mailop] About to blacklist Marketo - has anyone received non-spam from them?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

Two real world examples would be elected officials to be contacted and some
corporations to be contacted. The former absolutely has reasons to be bulk
emailed, the latter possibly too. Both would be "published" email
addresses. For your average person, probably not but it's not a hard 100%
rule as stated.

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 4:16 PM Jay Hennigan via mailop 
wrote:

> On 5/28/19 12:37 PM, Steve Atkins via mailop wrote:
> >> On May 28, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Jay Hennigan via mailop 
> wrote:
> >> Note that their stated policy is that it's OK to spam anyone whose
> email address has been "published".
> >
> > That is not what it says.
>
> Technically correct, but the only "publishers" of email address lists of
> which I'm aware universally claim that the lists they are selling
> consist 100% of people who are eagerly expecting all sorts of marketing
> material. Rule Number One, spammers lie.
>
> I wouldn't have the slightest clue of how to "publish" my address as
> being legitimately interested in receiving information about left-handed
> monkey wrenches if I wanted to.
>
> >> "Unsolicited Email is defined as email sent to persons other than (i)
> persons with whom Customer has an existing business relationship, OR (ii)
> persons who have consented to the receipt of such email, including
> publishing or providing their email address in a manner from which consent
> to receive email of the type transmitted may be reasonably implied."
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
> 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
>
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-- 
Brett Schenker
Man of Many Things, Including
5B Consulting - http://www.5bconsulting.com
Graphic Policy - http://www.graphicpolicy.com

Twitter - http://twitter.com/bhschenker
LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/brettschenker
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Re: [mailop] Gmail Contact?

[Brett Schenker via mailop]

I've had similar issues with a few of our clients and have had them focus
on sending to openers and clickers for Gmail. The clickers/openers universe
gets 30-46% open rates. For the rest when we test "inactive" for Gmail
after about two weeks the open rate has increased from 2% to 8%.

I think this is generally the right strategy, it just takes a while. For
volume total we're looking at about 1500 individuals between
openers/clickers so far.

On Thu, May 2, 2019, 7:10 AM Mark | Uniform Benefits via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> Rather than open up a new thread I hope I can pop this in here:
>
>
>
> We’ve been working very hard to bring our email up to scratch using all
> available best practice and some very good advice form this group.
>
> Microsoft – green now, Yahoo delivering well. Most other ISP seems in good
> shape, It looks like we may still in business and we get to keep the roof
> over our heads.
>
>
>
> Now moving back to Gmail (26% of our base c. 161k). Sending an identical
> campaign to a Microsoft campaign sent at the same time to the same level of
> engaged users (those that had completed the transactional welcome program
> and clicked through it) give these results - Microsoft OPR 42% so far,
> Gmail 0%
>
>
>
> We sent it to 10 users then crept it up to 29 TTL now figuring numbers are
> not high enough to generate any opens potentially.
>
>
>
> I’m not asking for direct help in any secret button pushing but if anyone
> can provide insight into the best way to move this forward to start mail
> delivering so we can incrementally work to a full campaign (removing
> non-engaged users as we go) I’d take any feedback positive or negative with
> gratitude. I’ve submitted the form below with the headers etc though unsure
> if that goes the same way as the Microsoft Mitigation process.
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Brandon Long
> via mailop
> *Sent:* 16 April 2019 17:03
> *To:* Brian Kantor 
> *Cc:* mailop 
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] Gmail Contact?
>
>
>
> Filling out the form multiple times is unlikely to help.
>
>
>
> Policies don't change very often, but rules and ML models do.  The policy
> is still "if receivers mark your mail as spam, you're going to have a bad
> time".  The addenda would be "if we don't know who you are, we aren't going
> to accept a lot of it" followed by "don't be too similar to the bad guys"
>
>
>
> Without info to investigate, not much we can do
>
>
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 7:39 AM Brian Kantor  wrote:
>
> I do not *know*, but mail that some months ago stopped going into
> spam mail folders has recently resumed being 100% shunted as spam,
> resulting in my inability to communicate directly with many clients.
> - Brian
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 10:12:26AM -0400, Rob Heilman via mailop wrote:
> > Thanks, we started those last night.  Might make it into an hourly
> routine.  Would be nice if their form had an incident ID to help correlate
> the reports.
> >
> > Does anyone know if they recently made changes to their inbound policies
> for DMARC/SPF/DKIM?
> >
> > -Rob Heilman
>
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>
>
> 
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> 
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