Re: [Maria-developers] Galera-10.0 still does not work with rollbacks
Jan Lindström jplin...@mariadb.org writes: Full unedited log using --valgrind and --mysqld=--debug=+d at location: https:/ /www.dropbox.com/s/dcufp7l1cch8dfs/mysql.err.gz Ok, thanks. Hm, this log looks different from what I am used to seeing when I use mysql-test-run.pl --debug. From looking at the mysql-test-run.pl code it seems I should have asked for --debug=d,*:t:i which will show function nesting and thread IDs, missing from the current log. If you can make a new log using the above command then it would be useful. But meanwhile, I will see if I can figure something out from the log you sent. I am looking at the tree lp:~maria-captains/maria/maria-10.0-galera/ , is that still the current tree? - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [Spatial] On current implementation approach
On 24 September 2013 02:49, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote:
2013/9/23 Mateusz Loskot mate...@loskot.net
I'm going to ask question about how the current Spatial Extensions are
implemented.
I have spent some time reading the source code in the current trunk
(spatial.h|cc, gcal*.h|cc, related Field and Item definitions, etc.),
so I have a rough understanding of the overall structure, how the
geometry data types are implemented and exposed to SQL, how the
spatial functions are defined and registered. I did not looked into
details of implementation of geospatial algorithms, but that's too low
level for the question I'm going to ask.
Initially, I was going to ask very detailed question, listing all the
relevant code definitions and asking separately about each of them,
but that's not necessary at this stage, I think.
Instead, I'm going to simplify and ask about the bigger picture, more
about MariaDB extensions API:
1. Is it possible to implement MariaDB extensions like Spatial (custom
type + set of functions) without such a tight coupling with the
internal implementation of the type system (without messing Field
class with geometry types directly, etc.)?
i think this is something interesting, check this idea:
https://mariadb.atlassian.net/browse/MDEV-4912
well this MDEV is too far from today (it's an idea to mariadb 10.1 we are at
10.0.5 today...)
forget this MDEV... you can extend mariadb with your hands too :)
This something interesting indeed.
2. Is it possible to implement Spatial using User-Defined Functions
(UDF) defined in shared binary?
yes, the field type probably will be a WKB value and a STRING/BLOB (char)
type, must check i never used a UDF for spatial data
That answers my question. So, it also means serialising/deserialising
is unavoidable.
3. What is the reason behind using Well-Known-Binary (WKB) stream of
bytes to transport geometry values into/from functions? Is it due to
limitations of MariaDB type system where String is the only universal
carrier for complex data? This concern is related to necessity of
encoding/decoding WKB when chaining spatial function calls, and
possibilities to avoid it.
internally (at memory / disk) you have a string (for spatial type it's a WKB
format string), and at run/compile/design time you have a class (many
functions) that handle this type (string in this case)
[...]
I do understand those principles.
My question however along this lines: is there a type system in MariaDB/MySQL
which allows to avoid going through WKB stream as the only
input/output data into/from functions?
IOW, instead of slinging WKB around the spatial functions, optimally if it was
possible to pass ready to use structured objects.
See this PostGIS wiki page about LWGEOM which is a working structure
for all spatial functions:
http://trac.osgeo.org/postgis/wiki/DevWikiPostGISCoding
So, instead of (pseudo-code):
foo(String s1, String s2) {
g1 = decode_geometry_from_wkb(s1)
g2 = decode_geometry_from_wkb(s2);
g3 = call_fancy_algorithm(g1, g2);
return encode_geometry_to_wkb(g3)
}
optimal protocol is this:
foo(MyGeometry g1, MyGeometry g2) {
g3 = call_fancy_algorithm(g1, g2);
return g3;
}
Is his feasible in MariaDB extensions?
Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
Participation in this whole process is a form of torture ~~ Szalony
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Re: [Maria-developers] [Spatial] On current implementation approach
On 24 September 2013 04:17, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote: 2013/9/23 Mateusz Loskot mate...@loskot.net On 23 September 2013 22:10, Alexey Botchkov holyf...@askmonty.org wrote: 1. Is it possible to implement MariaDB extensions like Spatial (custom type + set of functions) without such a tight coupling with the internal implementation of the type system (without messing Field class with geometry types directly, etc.)? Yes, it is possible. The core algorithms are separated from the Field structure and any other database internals. They are placed in sql/gcalc_slicescan.cc and sql/gcalc_tools.cc files. Yes, but my question is not really about location of computational geometry bits, but about the data management: SQL data type for geometry objects, input/output routines. Due to my lack of experience with MariaDB/MySQL UDF, I simply assumed that if: 1. Field is the only place that defines GEOMETRY type (and there is no CREATE TYPE support) create type probably will be a 10.1 feature: https://mariadb.atlassian.net/browse/MDEV-4912 and maybe you will not have a spatial key optimization in the first version of this feature This sounds very promising. in my opnion if you start a new udf today with gis, you should use the WKB + a second lib (geos is very good) to handle spatial data geos can use the WKB with a fast unserialize: GEOSGeomFromWKB_buf No, I don't want to go through WKB (Fast? Perhaps, not fast enough, for me :-)), that is the whole point. This is waste of time and will never perform as good as going through structured type straight away. (FYI, I've been part of PostGIS dev team, I've been also member of GEOS dev team, so it's fair to say I'm a bit experienced with spatial database extensions, WKB, coding, encoding). 2. UDF prototypes will use of GEOMETRY in their prototypes to declare input/output parameters then I couldn't understand how it is possible to remove geometry definitions from Field and other internal definitions. But, I've just found this project [1] with extra spatial UDFs, so I think I understand the UDF protocol regarding I/O arguments would not require explicit GEOMETRY type yes, you don't have a GEOMTRY_TYPE for arg_type[] at udf check your example at your mysql-spatial-udf git project: [...] Yes, as I mentioned, I have read through the code of that project, so now it's clear to me what it currently takes to pass geometry into/form spatial functions in MariaDB/MySQL. making it possible to move Spatial Extensions completely out of built-ins (trunk/sql/ files). [1] https://github.com/krandalf75/MySQL-Spatial-UDF mariadb 10.0 have plans about OPENGIS: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/plans-for-10x/#opengis-compliance Thanks for this pointer, I'll be watching it. but i didn't found JIRA report about it, or another worklog or something similar (must check if it's in lauchpad bug track or another lauchpad branch) I tried to find something on that topic myself too. and i don't know if mariadb will use GEOS... but from what i know, geos is the best opengis lib today, why not use it at mariadb?! =) There are alternatives. 2. Is it possible to implement Spatial using User-Defined Functions (UDF) defined in shared binary? The spatial functions/operations can be implemented with UDF, but that makes query optimization and using Spatial keys problemmatic. So, for real use case, the idea I brainstormed above would not make sense. Unless, there is workaround for those problems you mean. well i don't know what problemmatic means at high/low level, but i think it's something like this at sql layer: WHERE udf_function(x) in theory this udf_function() could be optimized with rtree index Y... but it will do a table scan... Yes, of course, that's the sensible approach. optimizer don't know how to use index with udf functions yet :( Ok, I think I understand it now. a workaround about index should be done at application side, could be something like: WHERE udf_function(x) and other_builtin_function_that_use_index() with this other_builtin_function_that_use_index function (envelop funciont for example) , you could use the spatial index and optimize the query... but it's not the best solution at server side, but the only i can think as a udf developer :) [...] Right. 3. What is the reason behind using Well-Known-Binary (WKB) stream of bytes to transport geometry values into/from functions? Is it due to limitations of MariaDB type system where String is the only universal carrier for complex data? This concern is related to necessity of encoding/decoding WKB when chaining spatial function calls, and possibilities to avoid it. The reason was mostly historical. It was sufficient for the first implementations of the Geometry field types and somewhat convenient as we don't need to perform conversions when we need to import/export features in their WKB
Re: [Maria-developers] Galera-10.0 still does not work with rollbacks
Ok, so I analysed things and found something. The direct cause of the assert is that reinit_io_cache() fails, as seen in the logs: reinit_io_cache: enter: cache: 0x3cee63b0 type: 2 seek_offset: 0 clear_cache: 0 my_b_flush_io_cache: enter: cache: 0x3cee63b0 my_seek: my: fd: 58 Pos: 11936128518282651045 Whence: 0 MyFlags: 16 my_error: my: nr: 33 MyFlags: 0 errno: 22 my_message_sql: error: error: 33 message: 'Can't seek in file '/home/jan/mysql/galera-test/node0/tmp/ML7E3rnl' (Errcode: 22 Invalid argument)' Flag: 0 my_seek: error: lseek: 18446744073709551615 errno: 22 Error handling is missing when the binlog code calls reinit_io_cache(), so the error is ignored, and it proceeds to trigger the assertion in reset() as the reinit_io_cache() did not complete. The invalid seek offset is 0xa5a5a5a5a5a5a5a5, uninitialised memory. The root cause of this seems to occur much earlier. The bad offset appears a number of times previous in the log, until a ROLLBACK statement happens to trigger the assertion. It appears first at the execution of a ROLLBACK TO SAVEPOINT A: dispatch_command: query: ROLLBACK TO SAVEPOINT A reset_current_stmt_binlog_format_row: debug: temporary_tables: no, in_sub_stmt: no, system_thread: NON_SYSTEM_THREAD mysql_reset_thd_for_next_command: debug: is_current_stmt_binlog_format_row(): 1 alloc_root: enter: root: 0x3d064100 alloc_root: exit: ptr: 0x3d2870d8 binlog_trans_log_truncate: enter: pos: 11936128518282651045 binlog_trans_log_truncate: info: truncating to position 11936128518282651045 reinit_io_cache: enter: cache: 0x3cee63b0 type: 2 seek_offset: 11936128518282651045 clear_cache: 0 The wrong offset comes into the binlog code from the upper layer in this handlerton method: static int binlog_savepoint_rollback(handlerton *hton, THD *thd, void *sv) ... binlog_trans_log_truncate(thd, *(my_off_t*)sv); The parameter void *sv is supposed to have been initialised in a prior call to binlog_savepoint_set(), when executing the SAVEPOINT A method. However, as far as I could determine, there is no such matching call, which would explain why *sv is uninitialised. This would be easier to see in the log with --debug=d,*:t:i where all the lines are prefixed with thread ID, but it seems clear enough, there is no prior logged binlog_savepoint_set() using the same io_cache 0x3cee63b0. So it appears the problem is that the test does a ROLLBACK TO SAVEPOINT A without a prior SAVEPOINT A statement. This should have given an error (right?), but instead it seems to end up calling into the binlog with uninitialised data, which corrupts the internal binlog state and eventually leads to the assertion. Does this help you proceed? Maybe you can verify this scenario from the general log. You may also be able to produce a stand-alone test case (by taking stuff from the general log, or writing your own). One transaction does a ROLLBACK TO SAVEPOINT without a matching prior SAVEPOINT. And then later a ROLLBACK (I think in a different transaction, but you can try same transaction also) triggers the actual assertion. Or if not, send the full log with --debug=d,*:t:i, and I can look again. Or maybe you can do so yourself, find the occurence of the invalid seek position and single out the stuff for that thread id only. Hope this helps, - Kristian. Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org writes: Jan Lindström jplin...@mariadb.org writes: Full unedited log using --valgrind and --mysqld=--debug=+d at location: https:/ /www.dropbox.com/s/dcufp7l1cch8dfs/mysql.err.gz Ok, thanks. Hm, this log looks different from what I am used to seeing when I use mysql-test-run.pl --debug. From looking at the mysql-test-run.pl code it seems I should have asked for --debug=d,*:t:i which will show function nesting and thread IDs, missing from the current log. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] Questions re MDEV-4736 and MDEV-4739 (was Re: Spider's installation sql file)
Hi Kentoku,
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:47:33PM +0900, kentoku wrote:
Hi Sergey,
I'm afraid fixing rnd_end() callers in the server may stall for a long
time.
O.K. No need to fix it if it is not easy. This request is not high priority
request.
Is it accaptable for spider to use bulk updates and deletes API instead
(see handler.h: start_bulk_update/start_bulk_delete).
Spider use it already. This API is not used if target table has after
trigger. I understand why this API is not used in this case, but it
sometimes causes performance problem. So, I thought it is better to prepare
other choice for something wrong. Anyway, I will disable bulk
updating/deleting feature without using API.
I see. Hope it is acceptable.
Nope, it looks like a bug in thread pool. MDEV-4739 has different trace,
how
did you get this one? Just executed given test?
I got this trace when I try to reproduce MDEV-4739. I did as the followings.
1. start mysqld
2. log in mysqld
3. mysql CREATE TABLE t1 (a INT) ENGINE=InnoDB;
4. mysql XA START 'xa1';
5. mysql INSERT INTO t1 (a) VALUES (1),(2);
6. mysql XA END 'xa1';
7. mysql XA PREPARE 'xa1';
8. kill -9 mysqld_safe and mysqld from another terminal
9. start mysqld on gdb
At that time, InnoDB and Spider were enabled and log-bin was disabled. So
probably total_ha_2pc 1 was true, opt_bin_log was false.
Does it help you?
We couldn't reproduce it yet. :(
Looking through the code I noticed that call to thd_wait_begin() looks as
following:
static void scheduler_wait_sync_begin(void) {
thd_wait_begin(NULL, THD_WAIT_SYNC);
}
Note that thd is always NULL. And it must be NULL at this point, because we're
booting. But according to your trace thd is not NULL.
#0 0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (
thd=0x29da060, wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
#1 0x0072a114 in scheduler_wait_sync_begin ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/scheduler.cc:59
...
The above should have been fixed back in the beginning of 2012. Which MariaDB
revision are you testing with?
Thanks,
Sergey
Thanks,
Kentoku
2013/9/19 Sergey Vojtovich s...@mariadb.org
Hi Kentoku,
I'm adding MariaDB developers to CC.
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 01:19:13AM +0900, kentoku wrote:
Hi Sergey,
But what kind of errors are possible in your case? Other storage
engines
doesn't
seem to suffer from this API violation.
Spider support bulk updating and deleting for avoiding network roundtrip
between data node. Some times, last bulk updating is executed in
rnd_end()
function. So rnd_end() has possibility getting errors from data node.
I'm afraid fixing rnd_end() callers in the server may stall for a long
time.
Is it accaptable for spider to use bulk updates and deletes API instead
(see handler.h: start_bulk_update/start_bulk_delete).
By the way, about MDEV-4739. I get the following stack trace.
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (thd=0x29da060,
wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
4277 MYSQL_CALLBACK(thd-scheduler, thd_wait_begin, (thd,
wait_type));
(gdb) print thd
$1 = (THD *) 0x29da060
(gdb) bt
#0 0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (
thd=0x29da060, wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
#1 0x0072a114 in scheduler_wait_sync_begin ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/scheduler.cc:59
#2 0x00d6dc20 in my_sync (fd=23, my_flags=0)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/mysys/my_sync.c:76
#3 0x00d6b54f in my_msync (fd=23,
addr=0x77ff4000, len=4096, flags=4)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/mysys/my_mmap.c:27
#4 0x008bea03 in TC_LOG_MMAP::open (
this=0x16e6a00, opt_name=0xe19c87 tc.log)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/log.cc:7735
#5 0x005751cb in init_server_components ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/mysqld.cc:4797
#6 0x00575a07 in mysqld_main (argc=30,
argv=0x1f204d0)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/mysqld.cc:5208
#7 0x0056d884 in main (argc=11,
argv=0x7fffe3a8)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/main.cc:25
(gdb) print thd-scheduler
$2 = (scheduler_functions *) 0x8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f
(gdb) print thd_wait_begin
$3 = {void (THD *,
int)} 0x5eaba4 thd_wait_begin(THD*, int)
(gdb) print wait_type
$4 = 10
It is looks that thd-scheduler is not initialized. What do you think?
Must storage engine set it?
Nope, it looks like a bug in thread pool. MDEV-4739 has different trace,
how
did you get this one? Just executed given test?
Regards,
Sergey
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Re: [Maria-developers] Review of base64.diff and german2.diff
Hi! Alexander == Alexander Barkov b...@mariadb.org writes: cut Alexander http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base64 Alexander I believe the modern base64 is associated with: Alexander - Char for index 62 = + Alexander - Char for index 63 = - Alexander - Pad character = mandatory Alexander Look at the table. All variants that have + and - Alexander for Char for index 62 and Char for index 63 Alexander have also Pad character = mandatory. Sorry, don't understand the above. (But it was resolved on IRC that you meant + and /) Alexander The only exception is: Alexander Modified Base64 encoding for UTF-7 (RFC 1642, obsoleted). Alexander But it's obsoleted long time ago! Alexander For those who wants the ancient modified Base64 for UTF-7, Alexander there is a simple workaround: mysql set @a:='aa'; mysql select from_base64(rpad(@a,cast(length(@a)/4 as signed)*4,'=')); Alexander +--+ Alexander | from_base64(rpad(@a,cast(length(@a)/4 as signed)*4,'=')) | Alexander +--+ Alexander | i| Alexander +--+ Alexander 1 row in set (0.00 sec) That's ok workaround, but we should at least document this in the manual. Regards, Monty ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] Questions re MDEV-4736 and MDEV-4739 (was Re: Spider's installation sql file)
Hi Sergey,
The above should have been fixed back in the beginning of 2012. Which
MariaDB
revision are you testing with?
It's same as lp:~kentokushiba/maria/10.0.4-spider-3.0.
By the way, I found a problem point in Spider. Currently it is fixed and
pushed. And I can't reproduce assertion failure. Can you reproduce this
failure yet?
Thanks,
Kentoku
2013/9/24 Sergey Vojtovich s...@mariadb.org
Hi Kentoku,
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:47:33PM +0900, kentoku wrote:
Hi Sergey,
I'm afraid fixing rnd_end() callers in the server may stall for a long
time.
O.K. No need to fix it if it is not easy. This request is not high
priority
request.
Is it accaptable for spider to use bulk updates and deletes API instead
(see handler.h: start_bulk_update/start_bulk_delete).
Spider use it already. This API is not used if target table has after
trigger. I understand why this API is not used in this case, but it
sometimes causes performance problem. So, I thought it is better to
prepare
other choice for something wrong. Anyway, I will disable bulk
updating/deleting feature without using API.
I see. Hope it is acceptable.
Nope, it looks like a bug in thread pool. MDEV-4739 has different
trace,
how
did you get this one? Just executed given test?
I got this trace when I try to reproduce MDEV-4739. I did as the
followings.
1. start mysqld
2. log in mysqld
3. mysql CREATE TABLE t1 (a INT) ENGINE=InnoDB;
4. mysql XA START 'xa1';
5. mysql INSERT INTO t1 (a) VALUES (1),(2);
6. mysql XA END 'xa1';
7. mysql XA PREPARE 'xa1';
8. kill -9 mysqld_safe and mysqld from another terminal
9. start mysqld on gdb
At that time, InnoDB and Spider were enabled and log-bin was disabled. So
probably total_ha_2pc 1 was true, opt_bin_log was false.
Does it help you?
We couldn't reproduce it yet. :(
Looking through the code I noticed that call to thd_wait_begin() looks as
following:
static void scheduler_wait_sync_begin(void) {
thd_wait_begin(NULL, THD_WAIT_SYNC);
}
Note that thd is always NULL. And it must be NULL at this point, because
we're
booting. But according to your trace thd is not NULL.
#0 0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (
thd=0x29da060, wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
#1 0x0072a114 in scheduler_wait_sync_begin ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/scheduler.cc:59
...
The above should have been fixed back in the beginning of 2012. Which
MariaDB
revision are you testing with?
Thanks,
Sergey
Thanks,
Kentoku
2013/9/19 Sergey Vojtovich s...@mariadb.org
Hi Kentoku,
I'm adding MariaDB developers to CC.
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 01:19:13AM +0900, kentoku wrote:
Hi Sergey,
But what kind of errors are possible in your case? Other storage
engines
doesn't
seem to suffer from this API violation.
Spider support bulk updating and deleting for avoiding network
roundtrip
between data node. Some times, last bulk updating is executed in
rnd_end()
function. So rnd_end() has possibility getting errors from data node.
I'm afraid fixing rnd_end() callers in the server may stall for a long
time.
Is it accaptable for spider to use bulk updates and deletes API instead
(see handler.h: start_bulk_update/start_bulk_delete).
By the way, about MDEV-4739. I get the following stack trace.
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (thd=0x29da060,
wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
4277 MYSQL_CALLBACK(thd-scheduler, thd_wait_begin, (thd,
wait_type));
(gdb) print thd
$1 = (THD *) 0x29da060
(gdb) bt
#0 0x005eabf6 in thd_wait_begin (
thd=0x29da060, wait_type=10)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/sql_class.cc:4277
#1 0x0072a114 in scheduler_wait_sync_begin ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/scheduler.cc:59
#2 0x00d6dc20 in my_sync (fd=23, my_flags=0)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/mysys/my_sync.c:76
#3 0x00d6b54f in my_msync (fd=23,
addr=0x77ff4000, len=4096, flags=4)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/mysys/my_mmap.c:27
#4 0x008bea03 in TC_LOG_MMAP::open (
this=0x16e6a00, opt_name=0xe19c87 tc.log)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/log.cc:7735
#5 0x005751cb in init_server_components ()
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/mysqld.cc:4797
#6 0x00575a07 in mysqld_main (argc=30,
argv=0x1f204d0)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/mysqld.cc:5208
#7 0x0056d884 in main (argc=11,
argv=0x7fffe3a8)
at /ssd1/mariadb-10.0.4/sql/main.cc:25
(gdb) print thd-scheduler
$2 = (scheduler_functions *) 0x8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f
(gdb) print thd_wait_begin
$3 = {void (THD *,
int)} 0x5eaba4 thd_wait_begin(THD*, int)
(gdb) print wait_type
$4 = 10
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Hi Kristian, On 18 Sep 2013, at 01:26, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. I am the Chief Evangelist for MariaDB, and clearly a community advocate and always fight for the community when discussing things internally. You are also absolutely right, that MariaDB is a community project. It is governed by the MariaDB Foundation. We have always had a strong ethic with being open. However, despite our strong ethic of being open, we have never published our download statistics. And maybe we should, but that is a discussion that needs to happen with all the stakeholders involved, from the company that pays your salary to the community of developers and users. There is an utopian view of the MariaDB world and a realistic view of the MariaDB world. Let’s try to achieve a balance without being anyones playground. There are many changes happening in a rapid fashion, and the cowboy-style that we used to run at Monty Program is clearly changing. So while we might want to celebrate the community’s usage numbers, they were set to be internal, like they have always been. Its like a Facebook keynote: they have a lot of MySQL servers, but they will never tell you the exact number of servers or instances that exist (swap Facebook with any large web property, Google, Twitter, etc.). There are competitive reasons to keep numbers private sometime. We have analysts paying attention to MariaDB. We have the press paying attention to MariaDB. We have investors paying attention to SkySQL, a large backer of MariaDB. MariaDB has been very open with some numbers (see What’s happening now - https://mariadb.com/kb/en/), but we have never in the history of the project shared download numbers. Maybe it is time to start a discussion on what numbers do become public. Maybe its time to publish a press release at the start of next month. Maybe numbers should be shared amongst all members of the MariaDB Foundation. Maybe once the MariaDB Foundation is running at full speed, there is a Community Council, ala what Ubuntu does. I don’t know the right answers to this, but one thing I can assure you is that I do my level best to keep things in the open. I would appreciate that when something is posted in private it remains that way. You might think its crap, but its unethical to share private emails in public. Kristian, I have very high honours for you. Thank you for your occasional outbursts to remind us to keep it real. cheers, -colin -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Hi Mark, On 18 Sep 2013, at 03:57, MARK CALLAGHAN mdcal...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Kristian. If you want non-company people to contribute then you need to make clear the boundaries between .com and .org. We all want the .com efforts to succeed but source code, docs, KB and download counts all seem like things that would be on the .org side. We definitely want non-company people to contribute as MariaDB is an opensource project. This is a time of transition, so changes are happening albeit slowly. I myself am not quite sure where the .com / .org separation heads, but there is plenty of discussion and you can trust that I am on the side of the community and the .org world. The bonus is that askmonty.org has been removed! Stay tuned for more Mark. cheers, -colin On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
please, if mariadb got enterprise version, don't call it mariadb enterprise like mysql did, create another name... some users could tell mariadb enterprise version is good, but mariadb community version isn't., that happens to mysql here in Brazil at least about numbers, i don't think it's a problem for community, who care about download numbers? this don't make a good software :) and mariadb is very nice, better than mysql in many cases :) that's the point :) 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Mark, On 18 Sep 2013, at 03:57, MARK CALLAGHAN mdcal...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Kristian. If you want non-company people to contribute then you need to make clear the boundaries between .com and .org. We all want the .com efforts to succeed but source code, docs, KB and download counts all seem like things that would be on the .org side. We definitely want non-company people to contribute as MariaDB is an opensource project. This is a time of transition, so changes are happening albeit slowly. I myself am not quite sure where the .com / .org separation heads, but there is plenty of discussion and you can trust that I am on the side of the community and the .org world. The bonus is that askmonty.org has been removed! Stay tuned for more Mark. cheers, -colin On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Roberto Spadim SPAEmpresarial ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Hi Roberto, On 25 Sep 2013, at 04:51, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote: please, if mariadb got enterprise version, don't call it mariadb enterprise like mysql did, create another name... some users could tell mariadb enterprise version is good, but mariadb community version isn't., that happens to mysql here in Brazil at least about numbers, i don't think it's a problem for community, who care about download numbers? this don't make a good software :) and mariadb is very nice, better than mysql in many cases :) that's the point :) The MariaDB Server is and always will be opensource. I notice that mariadb.com talks about an Enterprise offering (The new gold standard for database high availability -- ?!?), which from my understanding has nothing to do with the MariaDB Server. Your feedback is important, and I tend to agree with you - it sure does sound confusing. I will pass this feedback on to the person responsible for this. And with regards to your topic on download numbers -- note that they're hugely not a representation of our userbase. We cannot count users in distributions, large scale installs, etc. We also naturally see a huge discrepancy when it comes to opt-in statistics: http://mariadb.org/feedback_plugin/stats/server_count_by_month/ Anyway, thank you for your valuable feedback and lets all focus on making MariaDB better! cheers, -colin 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Mark, On 18 Sep 2013, at 03:57, MARK CALLAGHAN mdcal...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Kristian. If you want non-company people to contribute then you need to make clear the boundaries between .com and .org. We all want the .com efforts to succeed but source code, docs, KB and download counts all seem like things that would be on the .org side. We definitely want non-company people to contribute as MariaDB is an opensource project. This is a time of transition, so changes are happening albeit slowly. I myself am not quite sure where the .com / .org separation heads, but there is plenty of discussion and you can trust that I am on the side of the community and the .org world. The bonus is that askmonty.org has been removed! Stay tuned for more Mark. cheers, -colin On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Roberto Spadim SPAEmpresarial -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Hi Colin! =) No problems :) thanks for the free space Yes I read that Enterprise and didn't understood yet, maybe it's something about galera cluster? well don't need to answer, i will wait :) Well i really like MariaDB and yes i will talk everything that i consider important even bad things :) There's some guys talking in mariadb lists and outside the list about opengis, and mysql/mariadb isn't a rich database with gis, but it do some work (many times a good work), maybe could be interesting and it's a plan for mariadb 10.0 implement more about opengis, but let's wait what happens, developers what a big list of taks :) I see a good line to mariadb plans, that's important. Different from mysql, mariadb have features oriented to mariadb users, not to developers, users report what they need and can discuss at mail lists instead of a mysql pool about what community want and what devel team want to develop without a good discuss, I think mariadb have a good team and a nice community :) that's all we need :) cheers, Roberto Spadim 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Roberto, On 25 Sep 2013, at 04:51, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote: please, if mariadb got enterprise version, don't call it mariadb enterprise like mysql did, create another name... some users could tell mariadb enterprise version is good, but mariadb community version isn't., that happens to mysql here in Brazil at least about numbers, i don't think it's a problem for community, who care about download numbers? this don't make a good software :) and mariadb is very nice, better than mysql in many cases :) that's the point :) The MariaDB Server is and always will be opensource. I notice that mariadb.com talks about an Enterprise offering (The new gold standard for database high availability -- ?!?), which from my understanding has nothing to do with the MariaDB Server. Your feedback is important, and I tend to agree with you - it sure does sound confusing. I will pass this feedback on to the person responsible for this. And with regards to your topic on download numbers -- note that they're hugely not a representation of our userbase. We cannot count users in distributions, large scale installs, etc. We also naturally see a huge discrepancy when it comes to opt-in statistics: http://mariadb.org/feedback_plugin/stats/server_count_by_month/ Anyway, thank you for your valuable feedback and lets all focus on making MariaDB better! cheers, -colin 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Mark, On 18 Sep 2013, at 03:57, MARK CALLAGHAN mdcal...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Kristian. If you want non-company people to contribute then you need to make clear the boundaries between .com and .org. We all want the .com efforts to succeed but source code, docs, KB and download counts all seem like things that would be on the .org side. We definitely want non-company people to contribute as MariaDB is an opensource project. This is a time of transition, so changes are happening albeit slowly. I myself am not quite sure where the .com / .org separation heads, but there is plenty of discussion and you can trust that I am on the side of the community and the .org world. The bonus is that askmonty.org has been removed! Stay tuned for more Mark. cheers, -colin On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Roberto Spadim SPAEmpresarial -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list:
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Congratulations on a notable milestone in any case! On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.brwrote: Hi Colin! =) No problems :) thanks for the free space Yes I read that Enterprise and didn't understood yet, maybe it's something about galera cluster? well don't need to answer, i will wait :) Well i really like MariaDB and yes i will talk everything that i consider important even bad things :) There's some guys talking in mariadb lists and outside the list about opengis, and mysql/mariadb isn't a rich database with gis, but it do some work (many times a good work), maybe could be interesting and it's a plan for mariadb 10.0 implement more about opengis, but let's wait what happens, developers what a big list of taks :) I see a good line to mariadb plans, that's important. Different from mysql, mariadb have features oriented to mariadb users, not to developers, users report what they need and can discuss at mail lists instead of a mysql pool about what community want and what devel team want to develop without a good discuss, I think mariadb have a good team and a nice community :) that's all we need :) cheers, Roberto Spadim 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Roberto, On 25 Sep 2013, at 04:51, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote: please, if mariadb got enterprise version, don't call it mariadb enterprise like mysql did, create another name... some users could tell mariadb enterprise version is good, but mariadb community version isn't., that happens to mysql here in Brazil at least about numbers, i don't think it's a problem for community, who care about download numbers? this don't make a good software :) and mariadb is very nice, better than mysql in many cases :) that's the point :) The MariaDB Server is and always will be opensource. I notice that mariadb.com talks about an Enterprise offering (The new gold standard for database high availability -- ?!?), which from my understanding has nothing to do with the MariaDB Server. Your feedback is important, and I tend to agree with you - it sure does sound confusing. I will pass this feedback on to the person responsible for this. And with regards to your topic on download numbers -- note that they're hugely not a representation of our userbase. We cannot count users in distributions, large scale installs, etc. We also naturally see a huge discrepancy when it comes to opt-in statistics: http://mariadb.org/feedback_plugin/stats/server_count_by_month/ Anyway, thank you for your valuable feedback and lets all focus on making MariaDB better! cheers, -colin 2013/9/24 Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com: Hi Mark, On 18 Sep 2013, at 03:57, MARK CALLAGHAN mdcal...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Kristian. If you want non-company people to contribute then you need to make clear the boundaries between .com and .org. We all want the .com efforts to succeed but source code, docs, KB and download counts all seem like things that would be on the .org side. We definitely want non-company people to contribute as MariaDB is an opensource project. This is a time of transition, so changes are happening albeit slowly. I myself am not quite sure where the .com / .org separation heads, but there is plenty of discussion and you can trust that I am on the side of the community and the .org world. The bonus is that askmonty.org has been removed! Stay tuned for more Mark. cheers, -colin On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. - Kristian. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help :
Re: [Maria-developers] [Spatial] On current implementation approach
On 24 September 2013 19:28, Roberto Spadim robe...@spadim.com.br wrote: Here (mariadb lists) ideas are wellcome (at least some ideas that i posted was accepted or discussed) and patchs are *very* wellcome Roberto, Good to know. I will use JIRA if I ever have anything relevant. [...] I like how mariadb team works, it's better than mysql team (sorry oracle, but mariadb is better here) I have no idea about differences between the two development models and frankly, as long as the source code is open, I don't really care who drives the upstream wheel. With your knowledge you could help at opengis plans :) I don't know what you can do, but if you can, please help mariadb =) For now, I'm just learning, thus I appreciate your comments. Well I will talk like an mariadb user now and report my experience here... Today I'm using JIRA to report feature requests when i think it's relevant, and with a small discuss at maria-discuss mail list After a report a mariadb guy could mark it as won't fix, if anyone read it you can send ONE email to maria-developers list or maybe at IRC channel, asking about your idea and someone will look it and talk hum nice, relevant feature, let's do it at version xxx, or let's solve it now i think it's more interesting than a public pool like mysql since the problem start from mariadb users and not from mariadb developers, and developers do the best implementing this features with a good discussion with users, well just my opnion it's the best model to solve software bugs/features I understand. After initial confusion, which mailing list to choose, I deliberately decided to target MariaDB list with my questions. I may repeat the same discussion roll on MySQL one, but I wouldn't relate it MariaDB plans. Certainly, as both projects share the same (initial) codebase, it's nothing wrong to ask both camps about their plans regarding features of interest :-) Thanks =) i will leave space to mariadb team, sorry many emails, this topic is interesting to me I appreciate your comments Roberto, thanks. Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Participation in this whole process is a form of torture ~~ Szalony ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Maria-developers] [All] MariaDB's best (download) month ever
Define we, or even define MariaDB? I am confused. At this point mariadb.org looks like a collection of links to #2 and #3 below: 1) mariadb.org / foundation 2) mariadb.com / skysql 3) askmonty.org On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com wrote: Hi Kristian, On 18 Sep 2013, at 01:26, Kristian Nielsen kniel...@knielsen-hq.org wrote: Colin Charles b...@mariadb.com writes: It's 17.09 today, and we've hit 50,160 total downloads (this number is considered company-internal, we don't share this number externally). company-internal? What have you been smoking? Colin, you are supposed to be the community guy for crying out lout :-( This is *completely*, utterly unacceptable. MariaDB is a community project. We are about openness. We are about working together, all of us, to create a better world. We are *not* some individuals or companys playground. So no, the community's usage numbers of its own project is not internal, thank you very much. So please cut out the crap already. I am the Chief Evangelist for MariaDB, and clearly a community advocate and always fight for the community when discussing things internally. You are also absolutely right, that MariaDB is a community project. It is governed by the MariaDB Foundation. We have always had a strong ethic with being open. However, despite our strong ethic of being open, we have never published our download statistics. And maybe we should, but that is a discussion that needs to happen with all the stakeholders involved, from the company that pays your salary to the community of developers and users. There is an utopian view of the MariaDB world and a realistic view of the MariaDB world. Let’s try to achieve a balance without being anyones playground. There are many changes happening in a rapid fashion, and the cowboy-style that we used to run at Monty Program is clearly changing. So while we might want to celebrate the community’s usage numbers, they were set to be internal, like they have always been. Its like a Facebook keynote: they have a lot of MySQL servers, but they will never tell you the exact number of servers or instances that exist (swap Facebook with any large web property, Google, Twitter, etc.). There are competitive reasons to keep numbers private sometime. We have analysts paying attention to MariaDB. We have the press paying attention to MariaDB. We have investors paying attention to SkySQL, a large backer of MariaDB. MariaDB has been very open with some numbers (see What’s happening now - https://mariadb.com/kb/en/), but we have never in the history of the project shared download numbers. Maybe it is time to start a discussion on what numbers do become public. Maybe its time to publish a press release at the start of next month. Maybe numbers should be shared amongst all members of the MariaDB Foundation. Maybe once the MariaDB Foundation is running at full speed, there is a Community Council, ala what Ubuntu does. I don’t know the right answers to this, but one thing I can assure you is that I do my level best to keep things in the open. I would appreciate that when something is posted in private it remains that way. You might think its crap, but its unethical to share private emails in public. Kristian, I have very high honours for you. Thank you for your occasional outbursts to remind us to keep it real. cheers, -colin -- Colin Charles, Chief Evangelist MariaDB | t: +6-012-204-3201 | Skype: colincharles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mark Callaghan mdcal...@gmail.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers Post to : maria-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~maria-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
