Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Hi :) Most projects use terms such as stable, development, testing to signify whether a release is stable enough for systems that don't want to be upgraded or updated often as opposed to systems that can afford to be bleeding edge to get additional functionality early. SliTaz uses Cooking to signify it's development/testing release but i think it's better to stick with the terms used by most other projects. SliTaz's Cooking is cute but they also use Stable so people know what they are getting. There are some concepts in the leaflet that might be new to some people but are well explained elsewhere. These do not need to be re-explained in any great detail in the pamphlet. If people have questions then they can ask us or search out answers elsewhere, such as their local library or on-line search engines. For example the Cathedral and Bazaar methods of software development. To quote Wikipedia's page about the essay ... The essay's central thesis is Raymond's proposition that given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow (which he terms Linus' Law): the more widely available the source code is for public testing, scrutiny, and experimentation, the more rapidly all forms of bugs will be discovered. In contrast, Raymond claims that an inordinate amount of time and energy must be spent hunting for bugs in the Cathedral model, since the working version of the code is available only to a few developers. Perhaps the short given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow might be enough of a hint. Even though it is a bit cryptic a google search on that gives good results. Regards from Tom :) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Marc, I wish I had someone like you helping out with my college papers. After I married, my wife helped some, but with her affected by Alzheimer's I do not have any to help me with writing [i.e. grammar, etc.] my documents. Between Dyslexia and the strokes, I lost much of the abilities I had. So thanks Marc for finding the grammar, and other writing, issues with the paperwork Drew and other are working on for LibreOffice Marketing. On 05/26/2011 11:02 PM, Marc Paré wrote: Hi Drew Le 2011-05-26 10:36, drew a écrit : Hi Marc, et al Pushed new copies to the wiki just now http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.pdf or for the ODF file... http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.odt Nice work! Comments, quite a few: p.2 panel 1 The free power-packed, Open Source personal oductivity suite for: -- missing productivity p.2 panel 1 Designed to address your ... page. -- a run on sentence that is too long. The word whether needs an or somewhere to complete it. This paragraph should be reworked. p.2 panel 1 LibreOffice uses Open Document Format (ODF), recognized by many governments worldwide as the default format for office documents. -- we should promote the abbreviated form of ODF as much as possible to break the .doc view that this is a document abbreviated format. Also removed the , in from of as and also removed the S at the end of documents. p.2 panel 1 Should we put the (NGO) next to Non Governmental Organizations? There seems to be space for this and it is quite the recognizable abbreviation in many countries. p.2 panel 2 LibreOffice is easy to use thanks to its clearly structured intuitive menu. -- no need for a comma between structured and intuitive. p.2 panel 2 This is different from most, closed source, commercial product development models where the development happens inside a closed group, and time based releases frequently slip. -- This doesn't actually show any difference with the opensource group. We should find a factually relevant reason of an advantage of a time based release schedule that is measurable. Why is it better? I don't think we need to bother comparing to closed group development. p.2 panel 2 LibreOffice is free software, and is based on free tools. -- LibreOffice is free software that is based on free tools. or LibreOffice is free software that makes use of free tools. -- There are too many sentences with the same and ... p.2 panel 2 Our aim, over time ... -- Over time, our aim is -- no need to split the subject with the verb here. I think it read better this way. ... is to make it easy to build releases of LibreOffice ... -- substitute for LibreOffice with of. p.2 panel 2-3 For the most conservative users, we recommend a commercially supported version, which enables you to indirectly support the project’s development. Such stable versions will typically be based on a point release, such as LibreOffice 3.3.2 today; For those interested in the bleeding edge, who want to enjoy new features and fixes, we recommend LibreOffice 3.4.0, release candidates, betas or even nightly builds, which enable a participation in the development, evaluation and quality control process; Of course, as the 3.4 series matures, we will reach a point where we will recommend a 3.4.x release as being suitable even for the most conservative users. -- this is very informative. If there were a way to explain this without referring to a LibreOffice version (3.3.2 and 3.4), we would not have to update the pamphlet at the next version update. Maybe we should push to formalize the name of the point release and the bleeding edge releases. If not these two paragraphs are great. Maybe we could change it to: For the most conservative users, we recommend a commercially supported version, which enables you to indirectly support the project’s development. Such stable versions will typically be based on a point release, such as LibreOffice found on our download page.; For those interested in the bleeding edge, who want to enjoy new features and fixes, we recommend LibreOffice the release candidates, betas or even nightly builds, which enable a participation in the development, evaluation and quality control process; Of course, as the development series matures, we will reach a point where we will recommend this release as being suitable even for the most conservative users. p2 panel 3 The Document Founation -- missing the d p.2 panel 3 Free from our large, dedicated community of developers, contributors and supporters the make up the Document Foundation -- Sound a little choppy and could be read as meaning something else, maybe use: Free to download from our large, dedicated community of developers, contributors and supporters the make up the Document Foundation. -- you will also need a period here. We should also add: Visit our support pages at:
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Le 2011-05-27 06:50, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : Marc, I wish I had someone like you helping out with my college papers. After I married, my wife helped some, but with her affected by Alzheimer's I do not have any to help me with writing [i.e. grammar, etc.] my documents. Between Dyslexia and the strokes, I lost much of the abilities I had. So thanks Marc for finding the grammar, and other writing, issues with the paperwork Drew and other are working on for LibreOffice Marketing. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but most of my comments are just that and Drew and others are free to comment differently as well. We all get to offer our opinions on the text. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
On 05/27/2011 09:27 AM, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-05-27 06:50, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : Marc, I wish I had someone like you helping out with my college papers. After I married, my wife helped some, but with her affected by Alzheimer's I do not have any to help me with writing [i.e. grammar, etc.] my documents. Between Dyslexia and the strokes, I lost much of the abilities I had. So thanks Marc for finding the grammar, and other writing, issues with the paperwork Drew and other are working on for LibreOffice Marketing. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but most of my comments are just that and Drew and others are free to comment differently as well. We all get to offer our opinions on the text. Cheers Marc For me, it got to the point that I had to use text-to-speech systems to read my papers back to me to figure out if the words sounded correct. Dyslexia blocked my ability to see the words problems, and cause issues getting the proper words out or causes grief over spelling the needed words to the point I have to choose other words instead. I leave words out, put them in the wrong order, spell the words wrong but they are correctly spelled words so the checkers pass the by. I was over 30 before my reading skills was in the high school level, even though I graduated with good marks from high school and my first college degree with honors. I learned to compensate, with memory and in class discussions, for the lack of reading skills for the course text work. I was the first student at that college to be asked to join PTK [honor society that require 3.5 GPA or better] who had a learning disability. So with all those troubles that increased after the 2nd and 3rd strokes, it can be very hard for me to get down in print, or word of mouth, the things I want to say in the way I want/need to say it. It is easier to type, most times, than speak. That is why I did not want to talk to drew over the phone when he wanted me to a few months back. It is too hard for me to talk over the phone. Typing I can type and edit as much as I want before I press send. One of my doctors told me that my brain and mouth were working a different speeds so it was hard for them to keep in sync. --- Actually - LibreOffice spell checking issue Have you seen on the DEB 64-bit LibreOffice that the spelling pop-up used the OOo seagull image instead of the LO image [if there is one]? I was wondering when I say that; when to that happen since I do not remember that image in the earlier version of LibreOffice. I do not use LO's spell checking much, since most of my text work is in Thunderbird. So when I saw that image of the OOo seagulls it seems strange that LO would use OOo's images internally. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions webmas...@krackedpress.com To: marketing@libreoffice.org Sent: Fri, 27 May, 2011 15:59:38 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet On 05/27/2011 10:00 AM, drew wrote: On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 09:27 -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2011-05-27 06:50, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : Marc, I wish I had someone like you helping out with my college papers. After I married, my wife helped some, but with her affected by Alzheimer's I do not have any to help me with writing [i.e. grammar, etc.] my documents. Between Dyslexia and the strokes, I lost much of the abilities I had. So thanks Marc for finding the grammar, and other writing, issues with the paperwork Drew and other are working on for LibreOffice Marketing. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but most of my comments are just that and Drew and others are free to comment differently as well. We all get to offer our opinions on the text. Howdy all, First let me agree with Tim on this - thanks a lot for all the time you put in on this and other work here. Now - it turns out we also got a great submittal from Tom on this - he sent it via direct emial, so as to have files attached. So - I've pushed Tom's update to the wiki http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.pdf and of course the odt also. Now, will apply Marc's latest comments to that, which works really well as Marc concentrated on page 2 and Tom on page 1...excellent.. Back when that is done and uploaded Thanks much //drew Drew, do you know on your Wiki User page[s] that list what has been completed for the DVD, your links for the pamphlet and the insert are either wrong or just way out of date. I miss the module icons on the above PDF [BSD pamphlet] for Writer, Calc, etc., etc.. On page 1 bottom of middle column Why did you make LibreOffice -- Libre in green and Office in black? Is the link below that shadowed in black? Whatever it has look nice there. Stands out more than flat green. Column 1 You have Linux with RPM and DEB under it, but how about Mac OSX having Intel [or x86] and PPC under it? top of the column you do not have the . list indented, but the second page you have them indented. Should it be indented like the other lists? For Mac OS X, I know that form might be more correct, but for some reason, Mac OSX looks better to me. Should Gnu/Linux be GNU/Linux? Someone might wonder what GNU means. I keep forgetting with it stands for, except it is not Unix but Linux. an ongoing migration to GNU Make as a first step to more reliable cross-compilations from Linux to Windows . This statement brings up the issue that people may want to know what the GNU Make means and why this is true. I do not know off hand myself. Could Linux to Windows include Linux to Windows and Mac OSX? LibreOffice does support Mac OSX and that statement could be taken as there are no reliable compilations for Mac's OS. For the source code being available so people can compile it to BSD platforms, could it be BSD and other platforms? I just wish there was some way that that statement would not make some people thing that LO did not want to bother with any other platforms since they were beneath our social class if it was talking about people and not platforms. I use to be the devil's advocate in a lot of discussions in college and work since someone had to think that way so that the other side of the issues and problems would be brought up and worked on before the public thought of these questions. I am glad you stated LibreOffice Applications instead of modules but some people would wonder if you could install Writer alone like MSO Word could in installed without the rest of the suite. But, that would make the software package much larger in size. Hi :) Thanks Drew :) I didn't know how to upload and anyway i wasn't sure about my suggestions especially as it missed some other suggested changes. I can't see the odt on the page at the moment so i guess it's on the way. I thought listing individual OSes could get a bit long! There's about half a dozen Windows that LibreOffice seems to be being used on. There are about 600 (or so) GnuLinux distros that were picking it up quite fast. Ok, not all those 600 are desktop OSes and some are just for embedded device, routers and stuff, but it's still a long list! There is probably about a dozen Gnulinux's that currently have LO as the default Office Suite but more have it in their repos afaik. Pardus and Mageia were about the first to ship with LO. So, cutting out the list of OSes and reducing it down to the platforms keeps it much clearer. With Bsd i think LO has to be compiled from source and i haven't heard of the source code being compiled in any platform that isn't already listed, ie
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Le 2011-05-27 10:25, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : Actually - LibreOffice spell checking issue Have you seen on the DEB 64-bit LibreOffice that the spelling pop-up used the OOo seagull image instead of the LO image [if there is one]? I was wondering when I say that; when to that happen since I do not remember that image in the earlier version of LibreOffice. I do not use LO's spell checking much, since most of my text work is in Thunderbird. So when I saw that image of the OOo seagulls it seems strange that LO would use OOo's images internally. Hi Tim This is something you should perhaps post on the user list to see if anyone else has the same happening on their installation. I know that there is/was an issue with the Quickstarter showing the old OOo icon if the previous version installed was OOo before LibreOffice was installed. I'm not sure if the bug has been fixed. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Hi Drew Le 2011-05-26 10:36, drew a écrit : Hi Marc, et al Pushed new copies to the wiki just now http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.pdf or for the ODF file... http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.odt Nice work! Comments, quite a few: p.2 panel 1 The free power-packed, Open Source personal oductivity suite for: -- missing productivity p.2 panel 1 Designed to address your ... page. -- a run on sentence that is too long. The word whether needs an or somewhere to complete it. This paragraph should be reworked. p.2 panel 1 LibreOffice uses Open Document Format (ODF), recognized by many governments worldwide as the default format for office documents. -- we should promote the abbreviated form of ODF as much as possible to break the .doc view that this is a document abbreviated format. Also removed the , in from of as and also removed the S at the end of documents. p.2 panel 1 Should we put the (NGO) next to Non Governmental Organizations? There seems to be space for this and it is quite the recognizable abbreviation in many countries. p.2 panel 2 LibreOffice is easy to use thanks to its clearly structured intuitive menu. -- no need for a comma between structured and intuitive. p.2 panel 2 This is different from most, closed source, commercial product development models where the development happens inside a closed group, and time based releases frequently slip. -- This doesn't actually show any difference with the opensource group. We should find a factually relevant reason of an advantage of a time based release schedule that is measurable. Why is it better? I don't think we need to bother comparing to closed group development. p.2 panel 2 LibreOffice is free software, and is based on free tools. -- LibreOffice is free software that is based on free tools. or LibreOffice is free software that makes use of free tools. -- There are too many sentences with the same and ... p.2 panel 2 Our aim, over time ... -- Over time, our aim is -- no need to split the subject with the verb here. I think it read better this way. ... is to make it easy to build releases of LibreOffice ... -- substitute for LibreOffice with of. p.2 panel 2-3 For the most conservative users, we recommend a commercially supported version, which enables you to indirectly support the project’s development. Such stable versions will typically be based on a point release, such as LibreOffice 3.3.2 today; For those interested in the bleeding edge, who want to enjoy new features and fixes, we recommend LibreOffice 3.4.0, release candidates, betas or even nightly builds, which enable a participation in the development, evaluation and quality control process; Of course, as the 3.4 series matures, we will reach a point where we will recommend a 3.4.x release as being suitable even for the most conservative users. -- this is very informative. If there were a way to explain this without referring to a LibreOffice version (3.3.2 and 3.4), we would not have to update the pamphlet at the next version update. Maybe we should push to formalize the name of the point release and the bleeding edge releases. If not these two paragraphs are great. Maybe we could change it to: For the most conservative users, we recommend a commercially supported version, which enables you to indirectly support the project’s development. Such stable versions will typically be based on a point release, such as LibreOffice found on our download page.; For those interested in the bleeding edge, who want to enjoy new features and fixes, we recommend LibreOffice the release candidates, betas or even nightly builds, which enable a participation in the development, evaluation and quality control process; Of course, as the development series matures, we will reach a point where we will recommend this release as being suitable even for the most conservative users. p2 panel 3 The Document Founation -- missing the d p.2 panel 3 Free from our large, dedicated community of developers, contributors and supporters the make up the Document Foundation -- Sound a little choppy and could be read as meaning something else, maybe use: Free to download from our large, dedicated community of developers, contributors and supporters the make up the Document Foundation. -- you will also need a period here. We should also add: Visit our support pages at: -- otherwise the previous sentence would seem to call for the download page. You may support our work on LibreOffice and The Document Foundation with donations, details available -- maybe use: You may support our work on LibreOffice and The Document Foundation with your donations. Details available at: It is just me, or should we start thinking of standardizing our sub-site nomenclature? For example we have: http://www.libreoffice.org/support http://donate.documentfoundation.org
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: Additional Platforms - 3rd Party Support Pamphlet
Hi Drew Le 2011-05-24 11:26, drew a écrit : Hi, Alright, I really thought this was a subject worth a flyer (brochure) so took another pass and this time pushed it to the wiki, not close to done - NEED lots of feedback form everyone..I think it should make sense as to what the subject is.. I've added the text, mostly unchanged, from Italo's blog post on the timed release model - BTW. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.pdf or for the ODF file... http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO-Pamphlet-platforms-support.odt Thanks Drew Nice! Here are my comments: Maybe in p.1 panel 1 Operating System Distributions - User Supported-To name but a few we could add something like Check your distribution packager for native availability of LibreOffice or something like this. Or some statement that LibreOffice may be already available through user's distro packager. BTW ... I would probably move p.1 panel 2 to p.2 panel 2. Reason: p.2 panel 1 lists the modules, so, it would seem to make sense to then have the modules' description on the very next panel. p.1 panel 1 ... bottom. Is there anyway to fade the motif a little more? I find reading the text a little difficult to read. p.1 panel 1 ... the titles are off-set on the left-hand from the regular text but not the same on all of the pamphlet. I prefer the left-flush look rather than off-setting the titles. I think it looks more professional. Just my take. BTW ... I am not sure if I like the dark black outline around the letters in the titles. It looks like a try at 3-D but the effect is not working. I like the look of a softer line such as the LibreOffice tm on p.1 panel 3. p. 2 panel 2 ... small correction: LibreOffice is thez -- remove the z. Also the Libre in LibreOffice is larger than office p. 2 panel 2 ... I like the LibreOffice uses a time based release schedule ... maybe shorten up the title to LibreOffice Time Based Release Schedule. I would also steer away from mentioning OOo. There is no need to do this anymore. OOo is no longer a consideration and most people will have had no idea that OOo was not on a time base release schedule. Better, if we could provide a windows software example being developed on a time based release schedule (I don't know if Firefox or Chrome fit this ... I think Firefox does) -- KDE and Gnome really don't mean anything to our Windows users which are the majority of our users. Thanks for doing this. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
