Re: promoting good gnome apps via news.gnome.org
Not to promote, but Linux Plumbers Conference is exactly about solving this kind of stuff. If someone was willing to write a paper about PackageKit or something like that would be really good so that we can highlight this problem. Then we can work on it together to move Linux forward. Does that make sense? (papers are due by Monday! So we can still ge ta paper in!) sri On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Stormy Peters wrote: > I think this is a problem that will have to be solved with all the distros > in a room. Unless we come up with a solution that is so elegant end-users > just use it. > > Saying we shouldn't do an installer because each distro is different, is > ignoring a user problem. apt-get and yum are beyond the average user that I > think we are trying to target ... (If we ever want more than 10% market > share, we can't count apt-get and yum as solutions. We also can't live in a > world where you have to use multiple installers. Last time I installed > something on Ubuntu, I used their installer and then got sent to synaptic.) > > Stormy > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Brian Cameron wrote: > >> >> Dave: >> >> I am against any Linux ISD (including ourselves) trying to provide a >>> one-size-fits-all installer, until a packaging system that allows that comes >>> along. I have high hopes for PackageKit, but in the meantime, your goal >>> should not be to give people installers, but to document installing it on >>> the most popular distributions (Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, Fedora, SuSe) with >>> generic "apt-get" or "yum" instructions. Each distribution has a >>> distribution specific installer, that is what we should be targeting. >>> >> >> I have to say that I agree with you. I know, for example, that Sun >> Microsystems patches the upstream code in numerous ways to make the code >> work on Solaris/OpenSolaris. We work hard to get our patches upstream, >> but there is usually a lag time and some modules are not well maintained >> (we have patches in bugzilla for modules like libgnome and gnome-vfs >> that have sat idle for years). >> >> Providing an installer that provides builds that are not provided by >> distro are bound to not have such needed patches and modifications, be >> hard to support, and will likely not work well or as users expect. >> >> Perhaps, instead of providing an installer, we could just point users >> towards the correct resources to get the latest code from their distro >> directly? Or perhaps we could write a wrapper script that provides a >> common interface for the various distro update systems? >> >> Brian >> >> > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: promoting good gnome apps via news.gnome.org
2009/6/19 Stormy Peters : > I think this is a problem that will have to be solved with all the distros > in a room. Unless we come up with a solution that is so elegant end-users > just use it. > > Saying we shouldn't do an installer because each distro is different, is > ignoring a user problem. apt-get and yum are beyond the average user that I > think we are trying to target ... (If we ever want more than 10% market > share, we can't count apt-get and yum as solutions. We also can't live in a > world where you have to use multiple installers. Last time I installed > something on Ubuntu, I used their installer and then got sent to synaptic.) I totally agree with Stormy here, to what is worth, NetBeans has an installer/unstaller and people seem really happy with this approach, it gets installed on your home directory so it doesn't clashes with anything else. What we really need in the linux landscape is an .app like approach for users for bundle applications. Developers have to waste loads of time on learning the mechanics of every packaging system to deliver their apps efficiently, and users can't get a decent app installation experience. I think package managers are really nice for the system software/services, core components, the desktop, but for standalone desktop apps is just a fail approach that doesn't benefit anyone (except for the distros that avoid to make the effort/pain that it gets to agree on a common format and a roadmap for migration mid/long term). Given that GNOME pretends to be a platform to create apps for our desktop, I think this is a sensitive point and that it'll be for the benefit of our developers and users to try to approach this issue. > Stormy > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Brian Cameron > wrote: >> >> Dave: >> >>> I am against any Linux ISD (including ourselves) trying to provide a >>> one-size-fits-all installer, until a packaging system that allows that comes >>> along. I have high hopes for PackageKit, but in the meantime, your goal >>> should not be to give people installers, but to document installing it on >>> the most popular distributions (Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, Fedora, SuSe) with >>> generic "apt-get" or "yum" instructions. Each distribution has a >>> distribution specific installer, that is what we should be targeting. >> >> I have to say that I agree with you. I know, for example, that Sun >> Microsystems patches the upstream code in numerous ways to make the code >> work on Solaris/OpenSolaris. We work hard to get our patches upstream, >> but there is usually a lag time and some modules are not well maintained >> (we have patches in bugzilla for modules like libgnome and gnome-vfs >> that have sat idle for years). >> >> Providing an installer that provides builds that are not provided by >> distro are bound to not have such needed patches and modifications, be >> hard to support, and will likely not work well or as users expect. >> >> Perhaps, instead of providing an installer, we could just point users >> towards the correct resources to get the latest code from their distro >> directly? Or perhaps we could write a wrapper script that provides a >> common interface for the various distro update systems? >> >> Brian >> > > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > > -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: promoting good gnome apps via news.gnome.org
I think this is a problem that will have to be solved with all the distros in a room. Unless we come up with a solution that is so elegant end-users just use it. Saying we shouldn't do an installer because each distro is different, is ignoring a user problem. apt-get and yum are beyond the average user that I think we are trying to target ... (If we ever want more than 10% market share, we can't count apt-get and yum as solutions. We also can't live in a world where you have to use multiple installers. Last time I installed something on Ubuntu, I used their installer and then got sent to synaptic.) Stormy On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Dave: > > I am against any Linux ISD (including ourselves) trying to provide a >> one-size-fits-all installer, until a packaging system that allows that comes >> along. I have high hopes for PackageKit, but in the meantime, your goal >> should not be to give people installers, but to document installing it on >> the most popular distributions (Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, Fedora, SuSe) with >> generic "apt-get" or "yum" instructions. Each distribution has a >> distribution specific installer, that is what we should be targeting. >> > > I have to say that I agree with you. I know, for example, that Sun > Microsystems patches the upstream code in numerous ways to make the code > work on Solaris/OpenSolaris. We work hard to get our patches upstream, > but there is usually a lag time and some modules are not well maintained > (we have patches in bugzilla for modules like libgnome and gnome-vfs > that have sat idle for years). > > Providing an installer that provides builds that are not provided by > distro are bound to not have such needed patches and modifications, be > hard to support, and will likely not work well or as users expect. > > Perhaps, instead of providing an installer, we could just point users > towards the correct resources to get the latest code from their distro > directly? Or perhaps we could write a wrapper script that provides a > common interface for the various distro update systems? > > Brian > > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Proposals for Open World Forum
Hi all, There is a call for content currently open for the Open World Forum, which will be held in Paris in October: http://www.2020flossroadmap.org/non-menu-pages/open-world-forum/ http://www.2020flossroadmap.org/2009/06/16/open-world-forum-2009-call-for-conferences-submissions/ They're looking for vision, talks about NGOs and community presentations. I think GNOME should be present & represented, but I'm not sure exactly what, if anything, we should be presenting. The call for content is open for another 2 weeks, any suggestions for topics which would both (a) help increase awareness of GNOME and (b) perhaps crystalise thinking on free software moving forward? Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list