Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, I have good contacts to Linux NewMedia (LinuxMagazin, LinuxUser, Easy Linux, Linux Magazine International). So, if there's anything I can help you with, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, Christian -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, OK, I think we're agreeing on the 'user' front it's just a question of tone. I completely agree with your core message: "Elegant, easy to learn, easy to use" To expand a litttle the desktop assisting the user rather than standing in the way, that 'freedom' in GNOME is free from proprietary but also freeing the user from boundaries - the desktop doesn't prevent creativity. However, I do think that there is an impression amongst power users that usable means dumbed down. The word 'simple' has other connetations and sometimes people think that there is a trade-off between functionality and useability. To counteract this you still have to show how the environment is very capable. There has to be a sub-message so that users feel they are receiving an environment that will support them no matter how complex their needs. The new Mac users are a great example. Mac has traditionally sold to customers who 'just want it to work' so they've messaged on usability, simplicity and transparency. But, with OS X they've started getting traction in a more deeply technical user group. Because it's got powerful underpinnings that interested developers/users can use. You constantly hear mac developers talking about the innovation and power of the framework. These are still 'power' users it's just that they are not tweakers - they value things working right. This is important for Mac because these users are key influencers for less technical groups. We can apply this to GNOME. As you say this is not tweakers; it's people who don't have time to mess with minutae but have real work to do - whether that's wordprocessing or developing. You're statement of why you like GNOME hits the mark for this group - an example is probably old Unix heads who used to be engineers and are now technical managers. They want to feel technical and use cool technology but are time poor; their desktop environment should work for them automatically - they know how to edit X resources files but don't want to. Cheers, Steve On 5/10/05, Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > Steve George a écrit : > > Conventional wisdom says you should pick a single segment and > > concentrate on that one only. > > Well, let's say at most 2 :) > > > Users > > = > > As these are early adoptors the 'power' mantra is a significant > > factor. GNOME pushes simplicity. So the value should be about being > > 'powerful enough to do what you want, simple enough to be usable' > > similar to the 'simple things are easy, hard things are possible'. > > I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of where GNOME has its > biggest market opportunity. GNOME is not for tuners. GNOME is the > desktop that doesn't get in the way when you want to get some work done. > And more and more, power users I know are looking for that from a > desktop. These are the über-geeks who are buying macs en-masse. We want > them dual booting Ubuntu. Or keeping their PCs with GNOME on them. > > I know that I like using GNOME, because I don't have to think about it. > I don't need to spend a weekend after I install it getting everything > just the way I like it. > > > As we specifically want users who are active then you can push the > > freedom, community and involvement aspects of the project. > > Sure, some of these aspects can figure in a campaign, but I don't think > they should be the central element. > > > It would be interesting to see what particular qualities of GNOME > > actual normal users like! > > I really think it's "Elegant, easy to learn, easy to use". > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > David Neary > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, Steve George a écrit : Conventional wisdom says you should pick a single segment and concentrate on that one only. Well, let's say at most 2 :) Users = As these are early adoptors the 'power' mantra is a significant factor. GNOME pushes simplicity. So the value should be about being 'powerful enough to do what you want, simple enough to be usable' similar to the 'simple things are easy, hard things are possible'. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of where GNOME has its biggest market opportunity. GNOME is not for tuners. GNOME is the desktop that doesn't get in the way when you want to get some work done. And more and more, power users I know are looking for that from a desktop. These are the über-geeks who are buying macs en-masse. We want them dual booting Ubuntu. Or keeping their PCs with GNOME on them. I know that I like using GNOME, because I don't have to think about it. I don't need to spend a weekend after I install it getting everything just the way I like it. As we specifically want users who are active then you can push the freedom, community and involvement aspects of the project. Sure, some of these aspects can figure in a campaign, but I don't think they should be the central element. It would be interesting to see what particular qualities of GNOME actual normal users like! I really think it's "Elegant, easy to learn, easy to use". Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi Dave, I can see where the target market page is going. Conventional wisdom says you should pick a single segment and concentrate on that one only. One way to cut down the list is to consider whether other elements of our community are already marketing to them. So for example enterprise customers and public sector are covered by the distributions - and neither of these markets would use GNOME directly anyway, they would use a distribution for support etc. Potential contributors is essentially an enduser early adoptor segment. Understand why you see them as potential contributors, which is important. I would define them more tightly and look at what they get from using GNOME - so segment by behaviour/values. Users = As these are early adoptors the 'power' mantra is a significant factor. GNOME pushes simplicity. So the value should be about being 'powerful enough to do what you want, simple enough to be usable' similar to the 'simple things are easy, hard things are possible'. As we specifically want users who are active then you can push the freedom, community and involvement aspects of the project. It would be interesting to see what particular qualities of GNOME actual normal users like! Developers = There is definitely space for pushing into developers and ISV's. Again I think distributions are best placed to go after the commercial entities. Consequently, GNOME the project should go after individuals. Mono shows the way to build mindshare here with documentation, tools and buzz. Again would be interesting to see what real users in this group value On 5/3/05, Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > Steve George a écrit : > > This is such a key question, and the answer I think GNOME is giving > > doesn't make sense to me. > > I have concentrated my thoughts on this issue in the Wiki: > http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/TargetMarkets > > Here's my summary: > "Our core target groups, each requiring a different strategy, are > potential contributors, linux distributions and the public sector - we > should concentrate on these, and when we are well developed in these > areas extend to independent software vendors and enterprise customers - > concentrating on end users as a target market is a low return on > investment proposition right now." > > If we can agree on this, then we can start building a strategy for those > groups. Potential contributors => early adopters and geeks, but also > students, computer literate windows users, and Apple people if Apple > keeps pissing them off. > > > It seems to me that strong influences over GNOME want to develop the > > desktop towards the user group of tomorrow rather than the existing > > users of today. That is to say the focus is on the normal/ordinary > > 'call-centre' users. The issue with this is that it's completely > > ignoring the actual users of today - which are hackers, early adoptors > > and technical geeks. > > Sure - there are forces that want to invest in the platform, and make it > the obvious choice for writing software on Linux, there are others who > want to focus on end users, there are others who just want it to be > cool. Others want it to be rock solid stable. And so on. Everyone > involved in GNOME has their own idea of what is most important. > > I think that we can come to a concensus on our core markets, and > proclaim those to the world as "The Marketing Team". The developers will > follow, if we start communicating a coherent message. > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > David Neary > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Then for those who volunteer here is my contact: Paul Hudson Linux Format Magazine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remove the x's for the real email address. Don't want the scanners to pick up his email (although I'm sure he's getting plenty of spam) If people want the address and what not I can do that. It would be a good idea to password protect these contacts or find away to ensure privacy for those in this contact list. (and probably adhere to any privacy laws that we're subject to) I believe Jorge Castro has some contacts for an Argentian magazine. He's frequently had his articles re-published and since he's also a writer for ArsLinux Magazine and a huge GNOME fan he's probably a good person to approach. He did a lot of evangalizing at Penguincon in Detroit. (a future conference to send CD's too as a side note since there are many GNOME people there) sri On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 08:10:41PM -0400, Luis Villa wrote: > If you've got stuff on your plate sri, at least collecting a magazine > list and contact information and picking out some of the best articles > as samples might be something someone else on the list could do in the > meantime? Anyone? :) > > Luis > > On 5/2/05, Sriram Ramkrishna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:20:11PM +0200, David Neary wrote: > > > >I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic > > > >magazines where we can reach our target audience. > > > > > > Which is...? > > > > Which generic magazines? Well, things like Computer Shopper or > > a ZDnet magazine etc. The ZDNet stuff might have restrictions, > > I don't know. > > > > > For the GNU magazine, RMS is a decent contact. He has tried to > > > encourage article (and of course philosophy) sharing with the magazine > > > staff before. > > > > OK. Sounds good. > > > > > >>I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in > > > >>syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to > > > >>check up with him and get back to you. > > > >I think having these articles translated to magazines like these > > > >is great. > > > > > > I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. > > > > Cool. > > > > > > > > >>Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for > > > >>things > > > >>like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? > > > > > > > >Putting together a team would be kind of nice from each country > > > >might be one way to do it. Inviting magazines to attend GUADEC is > > > >also another way to get them to come to you. :-) > > > > > > A good start would be to get a list of magazine people and regularly > > > mail them when gnome journals come out. The list might not be > > > comprehensive, and it may well grow beyond what one person can handle, > > > but we can see who bites, and figure out if it's worth the effort. > > > > > > So - do you want to take it on? ;) > > > > Not sure as of yet. I'm trying to only commit to stuff I know > > I will be able to get done. At the moment, my personal life is > > somewhat chaotic. I'll try to take a stab at it after I've finished > > the personal stuff on my plate. :-) > > > > sri > > -- > > marketing-list mailing list > > marketing-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list -- -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 04:07:00PM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > > Hi, > > >>I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. > > So Denis got back to me. He'd be happy to include a GNOME article a > month in Linux Pratique. We haven't discussed money yet, or who'd do the > translation, or any other details like that. But I think that's a yay. > > About money, what's our policy? Linux Pratique (Linux end-user magazine) > pays for articles usually. Sri, would the money go to the author & > translator, or are we going to suggest that it go to the foundation? Thats really a question for Jim than me I think. My opinion is that writers should be rewarded for their work. They could have the option to put that money to the Foundation if they wished. But anything to boost the ego of the writer is a good thing. :-) Since the articles are all in creative commons payment is probably optional but strongly encouraged. sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 16:07 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > >>I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. > > So Denis got back to me. He'd be happy to include a GNOME article a > month in Linux Pratique. We haven't discussed money yet, or who'd do the > translation, or any other details like that. But I think that's a yay. Christian Meyer is also doing some articles for Linux Magazine in Germany (they are also sponsoring GUADEC). Apparently they were eager to cover GNOME more. -- Murray Cumming [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. So Denis got back to me. He'd be happy to include a GNOME article a month in Linux Pratique. We haven't discussed money yet, or who'd do the translation, or any other details like that. But I think that's a yay. About money, what's our policy? Linux Pratique (Linux end-user magazine) pays for articles usually. Sri, would the money go to the author & translator, or are we going to suggest that it go to the foundation? Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi Steve, Steve George a écrit : This is such a key question, and the answer I think GNOME is giving doesn't make sense to me. I have concentrated my thoughts on this issue in the Wiki: http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam/TargetMarkets Here's my summary: "Our core target groups, each requiring a different strategy, are potential contributors, linux distributions and the public sector - we should concentrate on these, and when we are well developed in these areas extend to independent software vendors and enterprise customers - concentrating on end users as a target market is a low return on investment proposition right now." If we can agree on this, then we can start building a strategy for those groups. Potential contributors => early adopters and geeks, but also students, computer literate windows users, and Apple people if Apple keeps pissing them off. It seems to me that strong influences over GNOME want to develop the desktop towards the user group of tomorrow rather than the existing users of today. That is to say the focus is on the normal/ordinary 'call-centre' users. The issue with this is that it's completely ignoring the actual users of today - which are hackers, early adoptors and technical geeks. Sure - there are forces that want to invest in the platform, and make it the obvious choice for writing software on Linux, there are others who want to focus on end users, there are others who just want it to be cool. Others want it to be rock solid stable. And so on. Everyone involved in GNOME has their own idea of what is most important. I think that we can come to a concensus on our core markets, and proclaim those to the world as "The Marketing Team". The developers will follow, if we start communicating a coherent message. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, This is such a key question, and the answer I think GNOME is giving doesn't make sense to me. The lack of consensus on this issue is what leads to the questions of why GNOME is no fun to hack on anymore and what language people want to use. The mistake of targeting the user group I think GNOME is going for is why the majority of magazines/user-sites believe that KDE is best. It seems to me that strong influences over GNOME want to develop the desktop towards the user group of tomorrow rather than the existing users of today. That is to say the focus is on the normal/ordinary 'call-centre' users. The issue with this is that it's completely ignoring the actual users of today - which are hackers, early adoptors and technical geeks. You ignore your existing users (your base) at great risk. It's makes you irrelevant in the current market place and since the early adoptors are the key influencers for the later users it removes the likelihood of you being relevant tomorrow. And, the fact of the matter is that most 'normal' users live with non-optimal solutions in computing so if they land up using a different solution they won't know/care there's anything better or bother to try it out. Is everyone in GNOME clear about who the target market segment is and how it impacts the project? Steve On 5/3/05, Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : > > On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:20:11PM +0200, David Neary wrote: > > > >>>I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic > >>>magazines where we can reach our target audience. > >> > >>Which is...? > > > > Which generic magazines? > > No, I meant "which target audience" :) > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > David Neary > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:20:11PM +0200, David Neary wrote: I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic magazines where we can reach our target audience. Which is...? Which generic magazines? No, I meant "which target audience" :) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
If you've got stuff on your plate sri, at least collecting a magazine list and contact information and picking out some of the best articles as samples might be something someone else on the list could do in the meantime? Anyone? :) Luis On 5/2/05, Sriram Ramkrishna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:20:11PM +0200, David Neary wrote: > > >I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic > > >magazines where we can reach our target audience. > > > > Which is...? > > Which generic magazines? Well, things like Computer Shopper or > a ZDnet magazine etc. The ZDNet stuff might have restrictions, > I don't know. > > > For the GNU magazine, RMS is a decent contact. He has tried to > > encourage article (and of course philosophy) sharing with the magazine > > staff before. > > OK. Sounds good. > > > >>I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in > > >>syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to > > >>check up with him and get back to you. > > >I think having these articles translated to magazines like these > > >is great. > > > > I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. > > Cool. > > > > > >>Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for > > >>things > > >>like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? > > > > > >Putting together a team would be kind of nice from each country > > >might be one way to do it. Inviting magazines to attend GUADEC is > > >also another way to get them to come to you. :-) > > > > A good start would be to get a list of magazine people and regularly > > mail them when gnome journals come out. The list might not be > > comprehensive, and it may well grow beyond what one person can handle, > > but we can see who bites, and figure out if it's worth the effort. > > > > So - do you want to take it on? ;) > > Not sure as of yet. I'm trying to only commit to stuff I know > I will be able to get done. At the moment, my personal life is > somewhat chaotic. I'll try to take a stab at it after I've finished > the personal stuff on my plate. :-) > > sri > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 10:20:11PM +0200, David Neary wrote: > >I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic > >magazines where we can reach our target audience. > > Which is...? Which generic magazines? Well, things like Computer Shopper or a ZDnet magazine etc. The ZDNet stuff might have restrictions, I don't know. > For the GNU magazine, RMS is a decent contact. He has tried to > encourage article (and of course philosophy) sharing with the magazine > staff before. OK. Sounds good. > >>I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in > >>syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to > >>check up with him and get back to you. > >I think having these articles translated to magazines like these > >is great. > > I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. Cool. > > >>Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for > >>things > >>like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? > > > >Putting together a team would be kind of nice from each country > >might be one way to do it. Inviting magazines to attend GUADEC is > >also another way to get them to come to you. :-) > > A good start would be to get a list of magazine people and regularly > mail them when gnome journals come out. The list might not be > comprehensive, and it may well grow beyond what one person can handle, > but we can see who bites, and figure out if it's worth the effort. > > So - do you want to take it on? ;) Not sure as of yet. I'm trying to only commit to stuff I know I will be able to get done. At the moment, my personal life is somewhat chaotic. I'll try to take a stab at it after I've finished the personal stuff on my plate. :-) sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, On May 2, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 07:12:52PM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: Do we have someone (nudge, nudge Sri) getting contacts in magazines around the world for magazine syndication? Well I have a contact of one person. When I was at OSCON last year, I was able to talk to a guy who was from a UK linux magazine. He said he wouldn't mind doing re-publishing articles, and he wouldn't mind even paying people who write articles for GNOME Journal to write good articles. Great stuff. I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic magazines where we can reach our target audience. Which is...? I have also made some attempts to reach the GNU magazine folks and the RedHat magazine folks. But I have not been getting much responses from them. For the GNU magazine, RMS is a decent contact. He has tried to encourage article (and of course philosophy) sharing with the magazine staff before. I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to check up with him and get back to you. I think having these articles translated to magazines like these is great. I'll get onto Denis then. I'll keep in touch with status. Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for things like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? Putting together a team would be kind of nice from each country might be one way to do it. Inviting magazines to attend GUADEC is also another way to get them to come to you. :-) A good start would be to get a list of magazine people and regularly mail them when gnome journals come out. The list might not be comprehensive, and it may well grow beyond what one person can handle, but we can see who bites, and figure out if it's worth the effort. So - do you want to take it on? ;) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary Lyon, France [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 07:12:52PM +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > > Hi, > > Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : > >Dunno, but we do have our own magazine that we do have control > >of the content for the most part. I would be more interested in > >getting these magazines to use our GNOME articles instead especially > >if they are widely read. (people should step up to write articles too :P) > > Most excellent idea! > > Do we have someone (nudge, nudge Sri) getting contacts in magazines > around the world for magazine syndication? Well I have a contact of one person. When I was at OSCON last year, I was able to talk to a guy who was from a UK linux magazine. He said he wouldn't mind doing re-publishing articles, and he wouldn't mind even paying people who write articles for GNOME Journal to write good articles. I'm really interested in pushing some of these articles to generic magazines where we can reach our target audience. I have also made some attempts to reach the GNU magazine folks and the RedHat magazine folks. But I have not been getting much responses from them. My idea was to have them republish our articles. (we'd have to manage who gets what though) Eventually it would be kind of cool to do a "newswire" ala AP that magazines could pick and choose articles that come down. > I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in > syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to > check up with him and get back to you. And I know Michael J. Hammel who > is the GIMP author for tuxmag. We also have some contacts with O'Reilly, > if it would be an idea to start a GNOME secton on the O'Reilly news site. I think having these articles translated to magazines like these is great. I know that some artcles we have written have been republished in Argentina. We haven't been making a lot of noise about stuff like this as perhaps we should. People have been appreciative of the articles that we have written. > Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for things > like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? Putting together a team would be kind of nice from each country might be one way to do it. Inviting magazines to attend GUADEC is also another way to get them to come to you. :-) > >really hate C++(1) :-) Most of Europe is using it aren' they not? > > Well, most of Gemany at least. But just look at the map of GNOME > developers - we're very Euro-centric. Yep.. Although the full time gnome folks are mostly in the U.S. sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit : Dunno, but we do have our own magazine that we do have control of the content for the most part. I would be more interested in getting these magazines to use our GNOME articles instead especially if they are widely read. (people should step up to write articles too :P) Most excellent idea! Do we have someone (nudge, nudge Sri) getting contacts in magazines around the world for magazine syndication? I have a contact in Linux Magazine France, who might be interested in syndicating a translation of a GNOME article a month - I would need to check up with him and get back to you. And I know Michael J. Hammel who is the GIMP author for tuxmag. We also have some contacts with O'Reilly, if it would be an idea to start a GNOME secton on the O'Reilly news site. Is there anyone willing to start building a list of contacts for things like this, and spend some time knocking on magazine editors' inboxes? really hate C++(1) :-) Most of Europe is using it aren' they not? Well, most of Gemany at least. But just look at the map of GNOME developers - we're very Euro-centric. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 09:58:10PM -1200, Glynn Foster wrote: > Don't get too worked up about the quote that I had above - that was > really just to incite people, and get a discussion started. I'm not so > much worried about the polls that they get their data from. I'm more > worried about the content and quality of the GNOME articles - is this > something that we can have some sort of influence over? Dunno, but we do have our own magazine that we do have control of the content for the most part. I would be more interested in getting these magazines to use our GNOME articles instead especially if they are widely read. (people should step up to write articles too :P) If we could get our advisory team to also export some our articles to internal IBM or something that would rock. There's probably ways to do it. > Why is that? Why are 99% of the Linux magazines out there KDE based? > Seems like there are important questions to answer for the marketing > group. I think because KDE is perceived to be the dominant desktop (despite the fact that I think a lot of apps are GTK+ based, some people really hate C++(1) :-) Most of Europe is using it aren' they not? I think most of the linux magazines are European based (at least the "fan" ones) sri -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
On 5/2/05, Claus Schwarm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 02 May 2005 10:00:12 +0200 > Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in > > telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and > > certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether > > you're using GNOME or KDE. > > > > True. > > On the other hand, are there really that many 'uninformed' GNOME desktop > users compared to the worldwide amount of geeks who also don't vote in > online polls? Well, the world's most popular linux distro defaults to GNOME, and the largest deployments in the world (spain and brazil) use GNOME as well. So, yes, there is a strong suggestion that we are actually the choice of the silent majority. But yes, we have to learn to turn that into a non-silent majority, since the only hard data (besides those ones I just mentioned) are these damnable online polls. Luis > Does GNOME come preinstalled on usual PC's? Are companies using Linux on > a lot of office desktops or isn't it used really for development, system > administration, and servers? > > And what will companies install? Will they really test different > desktops to see what's better for their users, or will they trust the > recommendation of their system administrator who is likely to be a geek? > Or will they just use what comes installed by default? > > Additionally, numbers such as these have a tendency to create their own > truth: People may start using what they percive as the most used > platform, and thus the platform will get the most used. > > > > I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, > > or redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls > > to get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. > > > > It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring > > GNOME... > > > > There are lots of things, depending on what you mean by 'we' and 'do'. > > However, the facts are: > > 1.) We can't influence what kind of people start testing Linux and > GNOME. The market of computer newbies is (nearly) unreachable right now. > > 2.) We can't change the way potential switchers judge GNOME: They will > first note what beloved features are not there anymore. That is, they > will first note what's wrong, in their opinion. On the other hand, it > took me about a year to find out what's cool about Linux. > > 3.) There no way to reach a decision, and delegate tasks, unless > prominent GNOME developers lead and organize these efforts. > > With this in mind, the following stuff seems possible: > > Web page: > - > > - update the 'user' section of the GNOME homepage with an inviting text. > > - a screenshot walk-through on the webpage with proper explanations. > > - make the webpage multi-language > > - make bugzilla easier to use (Elijah is working on this, AFAIK) > > - integrate Davyd Madeley's GetFootware page into the offical pages. > > - start posting inviting (encouraging) opinions/ success stories on > planet.gnome.org and/or GNOME journal instead of worrying stuff - Miguel > de Icaza is a master concerning this, IMHO. > > - in general, move potentially worrying discussions away from > planet.gnome > > - what about a 'news collection' team for Footnotes: Things I missed > there in the last weeks, for example: GNOME is preinstalled on medium > super computers via RedHat, and GUADEC got a one page advertising in > some Linux journals. > > - present GTKmm more prominately as a viable C++ alternative (there > seems to be a grown interest in GTKmm in the last year, did you know > that?) > > - present other bindings more prominately as an alternative to 'old' > toolkits, for example Perl-TK, TK, etc... > > Development: > > > - make GNOME (the project) more attractive to power users (geeks) - the > Power toys package idea might help > > - help third-party developers to migrate to GNOME technologies > inofficially. > > - concentrate less on unreachable markets such as people that buy OS's > preinstalled (that is: less emphasize on advanced usability) and > more on reachable markets (system adminstration, web page designers, > semi-professional musicians, or scientists, for example.) > > - make it easier to distribute and test GTK/GNOME apps by using > autopackage > > Social: > --- > > - Instead of doing-yourself, find ways to delegate work (split larger > tasks into small pieces that can be done by less experienced developers) > > - given the number of user made distros with GNOMe as default on Davyd's > GetFootware, where are their users? Do they read GNOME web pages? Are > there any ways to improve contact, and collaborate? > > Cheers, > Claus > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: Tuxmagazine
On Mon, 02 May 2005 10:00:12 +0200 Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in > telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and > certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether > you're using GNOME or KDE. > True. On the other hand, are there really that many 'uninformed' GNOME desktop users compared to the worldwide amount of geeks who also don't vote in online polls? Does GNOME come preinstalled on usual PC's? Are companies using Linux on a lot of office desktops or isn't it used really for development, system administration, and servers? And what will companies install? Will they really test different desktops to see what's better for their users, or will they trust the recommendation of their system administrator who is likely to be a geek? Or will they just use what comes installed by default? Additionally, numbers such as these have a tendency to create their own truth: People may start using what they percive as the most used platform, and thus the platform will get the most used. > I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, > or redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls > to get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. > > It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring > GNOME... > There are lots of things, depending on what you mean by 'we' and 'do'. However, the facts are: 1.) We can't influence what kind of people start testing Linux and GNOME. The market of computer newbies is (nearly) unreachable right now. 2.) We can't change the way potential switchers judge GNOME: They will first note what beloved features are not there anymore. That is, they will first note what's wrong, in their opinion. On the other hand, it took me about a year to find out what's cool about Linux. 3.) There no way to reach a decision, and delegate tasks, unless prominent GNOME developers lead and organize these efforts. With this in mind, the following stuff seems possible: Web page: - - update the 'user' section of the GNOME homepage with an inviting text. - a screenshot walk-through on the webpage with proper explanations. - make the webpage multi-language - make bugzilla easier to use (Elijah is working on this, AFAIK) - integrate Davyd Madeley's GetFootware page into the offical pages. - start posting inviting (encouraging) opinions/ success stories on planet.gnome.org and/or GNOME journal instead of worrying stuff - Miguel de Icaza is a master concerning this, IMHO. - in general, move potentially worrying discussions away from planet.gnome - what about a 'news collection' team for Footnotes: Things I missed there in the last weeks, for example: GNOME is preinstalled on medium super computers via RedHat, and GUADEC got a one page advertising in some Linux journals. - present GTKmm more prominately as a viable C++ alternative (there seems to be a grown interest in GTKmm in the last year, did you know that?) - present other bindings more prominately as an alternative to 'old' toolkits, for example Perl-TK, TK, etc... Development: - make GNOME (the project) more attractive to power users (geeks) - the Power toys package idea might help - help third-party developers to migrate to GNOME technologies inofficially. - concentrate less on unreachable markets such as people that buy OS's preinstalled (that is: less emphasize on advanced usability) and more on reachable markets (system adminstration, web page designers, semi-professional musicians, or scientists, for example.) - make it easier to distribute and test GTK/GNOME apps by using autopackage Social: --- - Instead of doing-yourself, find ways to delegate work (split larger tasks into small pieces that can be done by less experienced developers) - given the number of user made distros with GNOMe as default on Davyd's GetFootware, where are their users? Do they read GNOME web pages? Are there any ways to improve contact, and collaborate? Cheers, Claus -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Heya, > > "The fact is, however, that KDE has the largest market share, and that > > means the majority of our readers probably use KDE most, or use only > > KDE." > > Is this true, though? > > Online polls consistently give KDE a 2:1 advantage over GNOME, but that > is over the relatively small customer base of early-adopter alpha geeks > (or whatever they're called) - the people who read free software news > sites and things like that. > > But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in > telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and > certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether > you're using GNOME or KDE. > > I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, or > redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls to > get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. Don't get too worked up about the quote that I had above - that was really just to incite people, and get a discussion started. I'm not so much worried about the polls that they get their data from. I'm more worried about the content and quality of the GNOME articles - is this something that we can have some sort of influence over? > It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring GNOME... > > > Still, we didn't do too badly with GIMP, Rhythmbox, Gaim and Totem > > articles in there. > > Well, rhythmbox, gaim and totem got 1 page each... It's better than it > could have been, but still. It really does seem like they're a KDE magazine. Why is that? Why are 99% of the Linux magazines out there KDE based? Seems like there are important questions to answer for the marketing group. Glynn -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
I'd love to see how they measured market share. :) Someone should write and challenge them for the numbers. Luis On 5/2/05, Dave Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > Glynn Foster a écrit : > > "The fact is, however, that KDE has the largest market share, and that > > means the majority of our readers probably use KDE most, or use only > > KDE." > > Is this true, though? > > Online polls consistently give KDE a 2:1 advantage over GNOME, but that > is over the relatively small customer base of early-adopter alpha geeks > (or whatever they're called) - the people who read free software news > sites and things like that. > > But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in > telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and > certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether > you're using GNOME or KDE. > > I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, or > redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls to > get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. > > It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring GNOME... > > > Still, we didn't do too badly with GIMP, Rhythmbox, Gaim and Totem > > articles in there. > > Well, rhythmbox, gaim and totem got 1 page each... It's better than it > could have been, but still. It really does seem like they're a KDE magazine. > > Dave. > > -- > David Neary > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > marketing-list mailing list > marketing-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list > -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Tuxmagazine
Hi, Glynn Foster a écrit : "The fact is, however, that KDE has the largest market share, and that means the majority of our readers probably use KDE most, or use only KDE." Is this true, though? Online polls consistently give KDE a 2:1 advantage over GNOME, but that is over the relatively small customer base of early-adopter alpha geeks (or whatever they're called) - the people who read free software news sites and things like that. But it doesn't measure people using a free desktop at work, or in telecenters, or atr school, who may not know they're using linux, and certainly don't browse those sites that run online surveys on whether you're using GNOME or KDE. I don't know if there's anything that we can do to change that image, or redress the bar, or even start changing that trend in online polls to get it closer to 60/40 or even 50/50. It is a little worrying that an online magazine is almost ignoring GNOME... Still, we didn't do too badly with GIMP, Rhythmbox, Gaim and Totem articles in there. Well, rhythmbox, gaim and totem got 1 page each... It's better than it could have been, but still. It really does seem like they're a KDE magazine. Dave. -- David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Tuxmagazine
Hey, I'm probably behind the times and this has been discussed already, but there's a new free magazine out, which is probably worth a look - http://www.tuxmagazine.com/ with some interesting little bits to take from it - "The fact is, however, that KDE has the largest market share, and that means the majority of our readers probably use KDE most, or use only KDE." Still, we didn't do too badly with GIMP, Rhythmbox, Gaim and Totem articles in there. Glynn -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
