[Marxism] New on Redline

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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The torture and slaying of two-year-old Moko Rangitoheriri by people who
were supposed to be looking after him is another stark reminder of the rate
of child murder in New Zealand.  Don Franks looks at what is happening in
'Against Torture':  https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/06/29/against-torture-2/

We farewell Marg Jones, a colourful communist and member of a very
colourful New Zealand family, at age 96 (the family includes veteran
communists, NZ's most famous forger and its leading libertarian):
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/06/28/farewell-marg-jones/

An Irish revolutionary perspective on the Brexit vote:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/the-brexit-vote-an-irish-revolutionary-perspective/

A note from the best of all possible worlds:
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/a-note-from-the-best-of-all-possible-worlds/

Legislation that allows bosses to fire workers without a reason in the
first 90 days hasn't created more jobs:
https://wordpress.com/stats/insights/rdln.wordpress.com

Phil
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[Marxism] Fwd: With Free State of Jones, Hollywood’s Civil War Comes Closer to History’s - Who We Were - Zócalo Public Square

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2016/06/23/free-state-jones-hollywoods-civil-war-comes-closer-historys/chronicles/who-we-were/
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Re: [Marxism] Reminder!!!!!!!

[Sheldon Ranz via Marxism]

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"...or else I will be forced to send you to a labor camp in New Jersey to
be reeducated."

How's that for an extraneous text clip?

Avoiding Chris Christie as a *kommandant *is a powerful motivating tool.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> Comrades have become lax once again on the clipping question. Please humor
> me. I beseech you to clip extraneous text in your reply or else I will be
> forced to send you to a labor camp in New Jersey to be reeducated.
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Re: [Marxism] Reminder!!!!!!!

[Thomas via Marxism]

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Our moderator is not joking.

http://www.disclose.tv/news/Huge_FEMA_Camps_Being_Setup_In_Linden_New_Jersey/86344

He, or she, who has not understood this, has understood nothing.

T

-Original Message-
>From: Louis Proyect via Marxism 
>Sent: Jun 29, 2016 4:50 PM
>To: Thomas F Barton 
>Subject: [Marxism] Reminder!!!
>
>*
>
>Comrades have become lax once again on the clipping question. Please 
>humor me. I beseech you to clip extraneous text in your reply or else I 
>will be forced to send you to a labor camp in New Jersey to be reeducated.
>_
>
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[Marxism] Brexit and climate change

[MM via Marxism]

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This came up in a meeting with some union folks today, concerned that the 
Brexit fallout risks pushing climate change off UK radar for the foreseeable 
future. There’s been a fair amount written on this; here’s a sample:

WSJ: U.K. to Continue With Climate-Change Policy Following Brexit Result
http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-to-continue-with-climate-change-policy-following-brexit-result-1467209085
 

"“While I think the U.K.’s role in dealing with a warming planet may have been 
made harder by the decision last Thursday, our commitment to dealing with it 
has not gone away,” [Britain’s Energy and Climate Change Secretary] Amber Rudd 
told a conference in London.”

Economist: Where Brexit and climate-change scepticism converge
http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/03/economics-and-politics 

"Similarly, when Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, warned of the 
financial risks surrounding a Brexit vote, Douglas Carswell took to Twitter to 
declare that the governor's view was hardly surprising, given that he was 
appointed by the British government. Those who worry about the economic 
consequences of Brexit are told they have no evidence; when they produce that 
evidence in the form of economic forecasts, or fund-manager polls, or a falling 
pound, they are accused of scaremongering. Occasionally, sceptics will have a 
go at the "mainstream media" for distorting the facts, though in the case of 
the EU, the Times, Telegraph, Sun, Mail and Express are all broadly in the 
Brexit camp."

Politico: 5 ways Brexit will transform energy and climate
http://www.politico.eu/article/5-ways-brexit-will-transform-energy-and-climate/ 

"Early consensus suggests that environmental protections in the United Kingdom 
may be weakened in the aftermath of Brexit, as pro-Brexit campaigners try to 
make good on promises to make British businesses more globally competitive by 
rolling back pollution restrictions.

"The plan also could have repercussions on the international fight to assemble 
a global policy response to climate change. While the United Kingdom has long 
been a leader on climate policy—passing influential domestic legislation in 
2008 that aimed to reduce carbon emissions 80 percent by 2050—its negotiations 
for the Paris Agreement climate pact were done as part of the European Union 
delegation.

"The sudden departure could force some adjustments to the Paris Agreement, as 
Politico’s Sara Stefanini reported Friday….”

NatGeo: Why Brexit Freaks Out So Many Scientists
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/06/brexit-science-climate-change-environment-policy/
 

"“It’s depressing, but the uncertainty doesn’t help,” says Philip Jones, 
research director of the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit in 
Norwich, England. “I just hope that science doesn’t get forgotten in all of 
this.”


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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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First a note to Jamie.

Jeezuss, if I am more optimistic than you, then we are in trouble,  Jamie.
The 55% was a reference to a poll in the Times which gave Corbyn 54%
support for staying on as leader.  That was from a tweet on Lenin' s Tomb.
Another tweet said that his support int he public was70%. Your comment on
Chilcott was interesting - very.  I had forgotten about that entirely

Now I am channeling Lenin's Tomb here when I argue that Corbyn tried to
nuance his support for Remain.  He sought presumably to avoid the fate of
the Scottish Labour Party. They defeated the Independence referendum and
were subsequently slaughtered.

But nuanced support does no mean that Corbyn is a centrist.  Quite clearly
he is not and most of his troubles spring from that.  The right of the
Labour Party seeks to eliminate the Left - *tout court.* the left under
Corbyn did not seek to do that and now we have the Left fighting for its
life.

I believe that Corbyn can recapture the enthusiasm of his campaign for
leadership. Eagle has everything going for her but the people. I think so
because I believe we are in a  period where the hegemony of the elites, the
ruling class is under stress. They cannot simply be told what to do any
more.

But of course I could be wrong and the common sense of the Right of Labour
and of the Media could prevail and we could see the defeat of Corbyn. If
that happens, thousands will flock out of the Labour Party and something
else will emerge.

Richard's prediction is we are heading for a split. We shall see.

comradely

Gary



Gary

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Thomas via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Corbyn's half-hearted support for Remain pleased neither supporters nor
> opponents on that question. What support he has left among the membership
> in a membership vote, if there is one, remains to be seen.  This is a time
> of polarization, not a time favorable to centrist politicians who are
> neither here nor there.
>
> T
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: Anthony Hartin via Marxism 
> >Sent: Jun 29, 2016 3:16 PM
> >To: Thomas F Barton 
> >Subject: Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate
> >
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> >
> >Hi Gary,
> >
> >Looks like our side are standing strong. The big four unions are all in
> >support of Corbyn. The Blairites are struggling to find a candidate to
> >run against Corbyn - Watson wont run & Eagle's own constituency has come
> >out in support of Corbyn. There is more and more talk of the Blairites
> >splitting. My take is that they (the Blairites) have been chafing at the
> >bit & cant stand listening to progressive politics anymore. They tried
> >it on with the "anti-semitisim" furphy a few weeks ago & now they've
> >jumped the gun, waving their swords around and leaving only their own
> >blood on the floor and walls.
> >
> >I am hoping now for a repeat in the conservatives. I can't believe the
> >old wounds wont open up over Brexit. By the time of the next election,
> >which I dont think is that far away, it could be anyone's game. If the
> >Blairites go, then the space opens up for Corbyn and co to really push
> >progressive politics.
> >
> >cheers,
> >
> >Tony
> >
> >
> >
> >On 06/29/2016 11:49 AM, Gary MacLennan wrote:
> >> Hi Anthony
> >>
> >> good to hear from you. I am currently living on a diet of Richard
> >> Seymour's tweets! (& what Lou forwards to the list). So it is hard for
> >> me to guess at the mood.  The Guardian is infuriating in its stupid
> >> comment about the Corbyn "experiment".  I feel like resorting to
> >> obscenities to describe them.
> >>
> >> Richard in one of his tweets said there were cracks coming in the
> >> union front, but he appears to think their support for Corbyn will
> >> stay solid. If they do, then the goose of the Blairites is cooked.
> >>
> >> I wonder if listers agree with me that the Blairites overplayed their
> >> hand, such is their born to rule arrogance.
> >>
> >> I am convinced (hoping?) 

[Marxism] Reminder!!!!!!!

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Comrades have become lax once again on the clipping question. Please 
humor me. I beseech you to clip extraneous text in your reply or else I 
will be forced to send you to a labor camp in New Jersey to be reeducated.

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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Thomas via Marxism]

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Corbyn's half-hearted support for Remain pleased neither supporters nor 
opponents on that question. What support he has left among the membership in a 
membership vote, if there is one, remains to be seen.  This is a time of 
polarization, not a time favorable to centrist politicians who are neither here 
nor there. 

T



-Original Message-
>From: Anthony Hartin via Marxism 
>Sent: Jun 29, 2016 3:16 PM
>To: Thomas F Barton 
>Subject: Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate
>
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>
>Hi Gary,
>
>Looks like our side are standing strong. The big four unions are all in 
>support of Corbyn. The Blairites are struggling to find a candidate to 
>run against Corbyn - Watson wont run & Eagle's own constituency has come 
>out in support of Corbyn. There is more and more talk of the Blairites 
>splitting. My take is that they (the Blairites) have been chafing at the 
>bit & cant stand listening to progressive politics anymore. They tried 
>it on with the "anti-semitisim" furphy a few weeks ago & now they've 
>jumped the gun, waving their swords around and leaving only their own 
>blood on the floor and walls.
>
>I am hoping now for a repeat in the conservatives. I can't believe the 
>old wounds wont open up over Brexit. By the time of the next election, 
>which I dont think is that far away, it could be anyone's game. If the 
>Blairites go, then the space opens up for Corbyn and co to really push 
>progressive politics.
>
>cheers,
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>On 06/29/2016 11:49 AM, Gary MacLennan wrote:
>> Hi Anthony
>>
>> good to hear from you. I am currently living on a diet of Richard 
>> Seymour's tweets! (& what Lou forwards to the list). So it is hard for 
>> me to guess at the mood.  The Guardian is infuriating in its stupid 
>> comment about the Corbyn "experiment".  I feel like resorting to 
>> obscenities to describe them.
>>
>> Richard in one of his tweets said there were cracks coming in the 
>> union front, but he appears to think their support for Corbyn will 
>> stay solid. If they do, then the goose of the Blairites is cooked.
>>
>> I wonder if listers agree with me that the Blairites overplayed their 
>> hand, such is their born to rule arrogance.
>>
>> I am convinced (hoping?) that the election for the Labour leader will 
>> turn out to be a "fête dans les rues." Certainly it is a chance for 
>> Momentum to drive home their hegemony on the Left.  BTW I cannot see 
>> this campaign being as friendly as the last one.
>>
>> Having said all that a small part of me thinks that another effort 
>> will be made to reach a deal and so prevent an election for leader.
>>
>> comradely
>>
>> Gary
>
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[Marxism] In ‘Brexit’ and Trump, a Populist Farewell to Laissez-Faire Capitalism

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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NY Times, June 29 2016
In ‘Brexit’ and Trump, a Populist Farewell to Laissez-Faire Capitalism
by Eduardo Porter

Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and President Ronald Reagan in 1984. 
Their belief in unfettered markets, which guided policy for a 
generation, is under fire. Credit Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Donald J. Trump and Boris Johnson: Is this how the era ushered in by 
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher finally ends?


It once looked as though the financial crisis of 2008 might even bring 
about the end of laissez-faire economics. “The idea of an all-powerful 
market which is always right is finished,” declared Nicolas Sarkozy, 
then the president of France. And Peer Steinbrück, Germany’s finance 
minister at the time, predicted that “the U.S. will lose its status as 
the superpower of the world financial system.”


Even Alan Greenspan, the former Fed chairman, once known as the 
“maestro” of capitalism, declared himself “in a state of shocked 
disbelief” at the collapse wrought by the unfettered markets he had 
championed throughout his life. “I’ve found a flaw,” he said. “I’ve been 
very distressed by that fact.”


But I suspect few would have guessed that the economic order built on 
Reagan’s and Thatcher’s common faith in unfettered global markets (and 
largely accepted by their more liberal successors Bill Clinton and Tony 
Blair) would be brought down by right-wing populists riding the anger of 
a working class that has been cast aside in the globalized economy that 
the two leaders trumpeted 40 years ago.


Britons’ vote last week to exit the European Union was not simply about 
their idiosyncratic distaste for all things European — an aversion 
shared by Thatcher, who saw Brussels as the kind of meddlesome big 
government she loathed. Brussels was merely a stand-in for something 
deeper: the very globalization that Thatcher as Britain’s prime minister 
so enthusiastically promoted.


The so-called Brexit vote was driven by an inchoate sense among older 
white workers with modest education that they have been passed over, 
condemned by forces beyond their control to an uncertain job for little 
pay in a world where their livelihoods are challenged not just by cheap 
Asian workers halfway around the world, but closer to home by waves of 
immigrants of different faiths and skin tones.


It is the same frustration that has buoyed proto-fascist political 
parties across Europe. It is the same anger fueling the candidacy of Mr. 
Trump in the United States.


Across Europe — in struggling Spain and affluent Sweden, even in 
Europe’s champion competitor, Germany — more citizens would like to see 
powers returned from Brussels to their national governments than would 
like to see more powers go the other way, according to a poll conducted 
last spring by the Pew Research Center.


Older people throughout the European Union express nearly as much 
dissatisfaction as those in Britain’s aging industrial heartland who 
defied the will of the young and voted to leave by a wide margin. Even 
at the very center of the European project, only 31 percent of the 
French 50 years old and up have a favorable view of the European Union.


Their frustration is turning traditional ideological labels on their 
heads. Mr. Trump, a bombastic businessman who’s never held office, and 
Mr. Johnson, the former journalist turned mayor of London, might not put 
it this way, since they continue to cling to a conservative mantle. But 
they are riding a revolt of the working class against a 40-year-long 
project of the political right and its corporate backers that has 
dominated policy making in the English-speaking world for a generation.


As the conservative magazine National Review gleefully noted, the big 
“Leave” victories came “deep in the Labour heartland.”


So where does capitalism go now? What can replace a consensus built by a 
charismatic American president and a bull-in-a-china-shop British prime 
minister in favor of small governments and unrestrained markets around 
the world?


The British political scientist Andrew Gamble at the University of 
Cambridge has argued that Western capitalism has experienced two 
transformational crises since the end of the 19th century. The first, 
brought about by the Depression of the 1930s, ended an era in which 
governments bowed to the gospel of the gold standard and were expected 
to butt out of the battles between labor and capital, letting markets 
function on their own, whatever the consequences.


In his 2010 book, “Capitalism 4.0,” the London-based economic 
commentator Anatole Kaletsky refers to a document in the archive of the 
British 

[Marxism] Fwd: 'Red Mars' and the fictional artist | The Source | Washington University in St. Louis

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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The work of a Marxmail lurker (not sure if he still here...)

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/06/red-mars-fictional-artist/
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[Marxism] Fwd: Full transcript: Donald Trump's jobs plan speech - POLITICO

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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Donald Trump cites the EPI:

"As reported by the Economic Policy Institute in May, this deal doubled 
our trade deficit with South Korea and destroyed nearly 100,000 American 
jobs."



Read more: 
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/full-transcript-trump-job-plan-speech-224891

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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[jamie pitman via Marxism]

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So the resignations keep on coming. Its now up to 65, plus all the MEPs joining 
the chorus for Corbyn to go. Im wondering if there's another mechanism within 
the ultra bureaucratic party rules that corbyns opposition are looking at; some 
sort of party equivalent of ‘constructive dismissal’? I also read they're going 
to try and coronate an alternative leader within parliament, even before a 
leadership election, leaving Jeremy as nominal national leader only.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Gary MacLennan
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[Marxism] Fwd: Diana Johnstone’s poisonous nativism | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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It should probably come as no big surprise that the preponderance of 
articles appearing on CounterPunch favored Brexit. It goes hand in hand 
with the tilt toward Vladimir Putin whose hostility to the European 
Union is generally considered in these ranks as practically on the same 
level as Che Guevara’s call for “two, three, many Vietnams”.


full: 
https://louisproyect.org/2016/06/29/diana-johnstones-poisonous-nativism/

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[Marxism] Fwd: To My Less-Evilism Haters: A Rejoinder to Halle and Chomsky

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/29/to-my-haters-a-rejoinder-to-halle-and-chomsky/
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[Marxism] Foreign Policy: It is time for the elite to rise up against the ignorant masses

[Stuart Munckton via Marxism]

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https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/28/its-time-for-the-elites-to-rise-up-against-ignorant-masses-trump-2016-brexit/

(behind a pay wall: text below -- the .. well *elitist* response to
right-wing populism.)

It is time for the elite to rise up against the ignorant masses

James Traub

I was born in 1954, and until now I would have said that the late 1960s was
the greatest period of political convulsion I have lived through. Yet for
all that the Vietnam War and the civil rights struggle changed American
culture and reshaped political parties, in retrospect those wild storms
look like the normal oscillations of a relatively stable political system.
The present moment is different.

Today’s citizen revolt — in the United States, Britain, and Europe — may
upend politics as nothing else has in my lifetime.In the late 1960s, elites
were in disarray, as they are now — but back then they were fleeing from
kids rebelling against their parents’ world; now the elites are fleeing
from the parents.

Extremism has gone mainstream. One of the most brazen features of the
Brexit vote was the utter repudiation of the bankers and economists and
Western heads of state who warned voters against the dangers of a split
with the European Union. British Prime Minister David Cameron thought that
voters would defer to the near-universal opinion of experts; that only
shows how utterly he misjudged his own people.Both the Conservative and the
Labour parties in Britain are now in crisis. The British have had their day
of reckoning; the American one looms.

If Donald Trump loses, and loses badly (forgive me my reckless optimism,
but I believe he will) the Republican Party may endure a historic split
between its know-nothing base and its K Street/Chamber of Commerce
leadership class.

The Socialist government of France may face a similar fiasco in national
elections next spring: Polls indicate that President François Hollande
would not even make it to the final round of voting. Right-wing parties all
over Europe are clamoring for an exit vote of their own.

Yes, it’s possible that all the political pieces will fly up into the air
and settle down more or less where they were before, but the Brexit vote
shows that shocking change isn’t very shocking anymore. Where, then, could
those pieces end up? Europe is already pointing in one direction. In much
of Europe, far-right nativist parties lead in the polls. So far, none has
mustered a majority, though last month Norbert Hofer, the leader of
Austria’s far-right Freedom Party, which traffics in Nazi symbolism, came
within a hair of winning election as president.

Mainstream parties of the left and right may increasingly combine forces to
keep out the nationalists. This has already happened in Sweden, where a
right-of-center party serves as the minority partner to the left-of-center
government. If the Socialists in France do in fact lose the first round,
they will almost certainly support the conservative Republicans against the
far-right National Front.Perhaps these informal coalitions can survive
until the fever breaks.

But the imperative of cohabitation could also lead to genuine realignment.
That is, chunks of parties from the left and right of center could break
away to form a different kind of center, defending pragmatism, meliorism,
technical knowledge, and effective governance against the ideological
forces gathering on both sides.

It’s not hard to imagine the Republican Party in the United States — and
perhaps the British Conservatives should Brexit go terribly wrong — losing
control of the angry, nationalist rank and file and reconstituting
themselves as the kind of Main Street, pro-business parties they were a
generation ago, before their ideological zeal led them into a blind alley.
That may be their only alternative to irrelevance.

The issue, at bottom, is globalization. Brexit, Trump, the National Front,
and so on show that political elites have misjudged the depth of the anger
at global forces and thus the demand that someone, somehow, restore the
status quo ante. It may seem strange that the reaction has come today
rather than immediately after the economic crisis of 2008, but the ebbing
of the crisis has led to a new sense of stagnation. With prospects of flat
growth in Europe and minimal income growth in the United States, voters are
rebelling against their dismal long-term prospects.

And globalization means culture as well as economics: Older people whose
familiar world is vanishing beneath a welter of foreign tongues and
multicultural celebrations are waving their fists at cosmopolitan elites. I
was recently in Poland, where a far-right party appealing to 

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Bernie's Next Big Task: Build a Large-Scale, National Progressive Movement | Alternet

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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This article is particularly sad considering that its author, Les Leopold,
was central to Tony Mazzocchi's Labor Party. Les helped craft the process
by which they sounded out, and got agreement from, trade unions to support
founding such a party. Les also developed the educational materials for the
effort.

Still, I hope his projected mass march on Washington will be taken up.

P.S. Les's biography of Tony Mazzocchi is essential, inspiring reading:
https://www.chelseagreen.com/the-man-who-hated-work-and-loved-labor
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[Marxism] Fwd: Bernie's Next Big Task: Build a Large-Scale, National Progressive Movement | Alternet

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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(The gyrations of Bernie Sanders supporters in making the case for a 
Hillary Clinton vote would make Rudolf Nureyev look positively 
lead-footed. Have they secretly been reading the speeches of Gus Hall? I 
only ask because the acrobatics are strictly from the CPUSA playbook.)


The first task of this new movement would be to dump Trump. Instead of 
making a “lesser-of-two-evils” argument, we should make a positive claim 
that the “political revolution” Bernie has ignited would flourish more 
if Trump were not president.


http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-next-big-task-build-large-scale-national-progressive-movement
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[Marxism] Thousands of protesters, unions defend Corbyn as right-wing MPs attack

[Stuart Munckton via Marxism]

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https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/62034
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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[jamie pitman via Marxism]

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Hi Gary, 
I thought you mentioned 55% somewhere and wasn't sure what that reflected. 
Anyway, we're not in disagreement apart from I think its pretty obvious you're 
far more optimistic in outlook than I am generally. 

I would say Im unconvinced any deal can be made. All the PLP want is for Corbyn 
to go – hardly a basis for negotiation or compromise. Second, I think you 
underestimate how willing the PLP are to split the party. In the local 
elections, they genuinely seemed happy when Labour lost seats so that they 
could blame Corbyn.

Two other important points upcoming: the loss of support from the likes of owen 
smith and andy slaughter is a really bad bellwether for Corbyn – these are not 
in any way Blairites. But, if his team are savvy, they could use the upcoming 
Chilcott report to bash the Blairites with. 

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Gary MacLennan
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[Marxism] Fwd: Racism is spreading like arsenic in the water supply | Randeep Ramesh | Opinion | The Guardian

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/racism-neo-nazis-britain
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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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Hi Jamie thank you for commenting on my post.

I don't think I have said any thing about Corbyn's electability or his
popularity in terms of the general elrctorate in any of my posts, so I dont
feel I have to supply a source.

I have said though that he will defeat the candidate of the Blairites in a
contest for leadership. I am not sure if you disagree with this. In any
case we are in strong agreement about the unstable nature of the
conjuncture.

I know it is foolish, but I can't stop myself trying to predict and that is
why I still expect a deal, tbat is a pull back from the abyss.

comradely
Gary
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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[jamie pitman via Marxism]

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I disagree about the balance of forces. *As long as he’s on the ballot* the 
best thing Corbyn can do is have the leadership election and reinforce his 
mandate.

Second, Corbyn has managed to make the Labour party specifically, and electoral 
politics in general, seem worth bothering with to disenchanted people like me, 
and even the present generation of young anarchists. So his support on the 
wider far left is uniquely strong.

But his support nationally is awful, so ill say again he has worse approval 
ratings than Miliband's, which is unprecedented. If you've read something that 
contradicts that, you should provide a link (this is the make-or-break question 
if we have a snap general election (which isn't guaranteed))

Obviously the UK is living through the most turbulent political period in 
anybody's living memory, so even accurate opinion polls can be contradicted 
within days in times when history seems to have accelerated.

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Gary MacLennan via Marxism
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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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Hi Anthony

good to hear from you. I am currently living on a diet of Richard Seymour's
tweets! (& what Lou forwards to the list). So it is hard for me to guess at
the mood.  The Guardian is infuriating in its stupid comment about the
Corbyn "experiment".  I feel like resorting to obscenities to describe
them.

Richard in one of his tweets said there were cracks coming in the union
front, but he appears to think their support for Corbyn will stay solid. If
they do, then the goose of the Blairites is cooked.

I wonder if listers agree with me that the Blairites overplayed their hand,
such is their born to rule arrogance.

I am convinced (hoping?) that the election for the Labour leader will turn
out to be a "fête dans les rues." Certainly it is a chance for Momentum to
drive home their hegemony on the Left.  BTW I cannot see this campaign
being as friendly as the last one.

Having said all that a small part of me thinks that another effort will be
made to reach a deal and so prevent an election for leader.

comradely

Gary

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Anthony Hartin via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Hi Gary,
>
> When I lived in the UK, I didnt go to every demo, but just about every
> demo I did go to, Corbyn was speaking at. What astonished me was that the
> Labour Party could still house someone like him. While the likes of Corbyn,
> Diane Abbott etc. are still in there, I can't completely hate the Labour
> Party.
>
> I think the Blairites (and the "softies" in between) are unable to
> psychologically process that Corbyn is not acting out of ego but out of
> principle - and so wont fold under 10 times the pressure that any of them
> could tolerate.
>
> Corbyn knows he is a left pole of attraction at the moment, no matter how
> long or short-lived it will be. I'm sure he didnt expect it, but there it
> is. He wont budge until the members vote him out. I expect that the members
> admiration will have grown. If Corbyn survives until the next election, we
> can only hope that Momentum and other Left currents grow and the blairites
> are deselected.
>
>
> --
> Anthony Hartin
>
> DESY, CFEL, room 99/03.114
> Notkestrasse 85, Hamburg 22607
> Tel: +49(0)40 8998 6265
> Fax: +49(0)40 8998
> Mob: +49(0)151 51167720
> anthony.har...@desy.de
> http://www.desy.de/~hartin
>
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Re: [Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Anthony Hartin via Marxism]

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Hi Gary,

When I lived in the UK, I didnt go to every demo, but just about every 
demo I did go to, Corbyn was speaking at. What astonished me was that 
the Labour Party could still house someone like him. While the likes of 
Corbyn, Diane Abbott etc. are still in there, I can't completely hate 
the Labour Party.


I think the Blairites (and the "softies" in between) are unable to 
psychologically process that Corbyn is not acting out of ego but out of 
principle - and so wont fold under 10 times the pressure that any of 
them could tolerate.


Corbyn knows he is a left pole of attraction at the moment, no matter 
how long or short-lived it will be. I'm sure he didnt expect it, but 
there it is. He wont budge until the members vote him out. I expect that 
the members admiration will have grown. If Corbyn survives until the 
next election, we can only hope that Momentum and other Left currents 
grow and the blairites are deselected.



--
Anthony Hartin

DESY, CFEL, room 99/03.114
Notkestrasse 85, Hamburg 22607
Tel: +49(0)40 8998 6265
Fax: +49(0)40 8998
Mob: +49(0)151 51167720
anthony.har...@desy.de
http://www.desy.de/~hartin

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[Marxism] Corbyn's fate

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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The events in the UK have moved at a break neck pace since the referendum.
Etienne Balibar's blog on the Verso site contains an interesting argument
that most referenda are ignored and as a consequence what appears to be
happening may not eventuate. Some sort of compromise will be cobbled
together.  He does have the interesting comment "we are witnessing a
*destituent
*process that for the moment has no *constituent* counterpart".
That would certainly appear to be an apt description of what is going on
the the British Labour Party. The rush towards the destituent end of the
spectrum would seem to be unstoppable.

I will be frank and admit I am astonished that Corbyn has not yielded to
the pressure and made some deal.  The coup plotters have over played their
hand totally. They can only destroy the Party from here, if things proceed
to an election.  A victory for Corbyn means that the Blairites will have
been exposed as a over represented minority.  They cannot afford that.
I, as you all know, suspect that Burnham will make a move but he will not
cut it without explicit endorsement from Corbyn. The compromise of putting
McDonnell forward as an alternative has been mooted, but seemingly
absolutely rejected.

The polls suggest that if Corbyn stands he will win massively his standing
among members is around 70%, it would seem.  Among the wider public it is
over 55%.

So my reading of the situation is that, contrary to all the media hype and
the noise from the commentariat, Corbyn is in a strong position. He can
break and remake the Labour Party, while the Blairites etc can only break.

I may be hopelessly wrong here. That is one of the dangers of commentary
from afar. But I will also run up my flag.  I hope that Corbyn stands firm
and does no deal.  And I hope the people have the strength to take the
opportunity and settle accounts with the politics of Blairism by backing
Corbyn massively.  But the scale of the change all this would bring about
is almost beyond comprehension.

For the Capitalist class, the crisis in the tried and trusted second eleven
must be a source of some anxiety. When the First Eleven, the Tory Party,
gets into a muddle, it is always handy to put the second eleven, the Labour
Party, in for a while.  But that may not be possible ever again. There may
be no Labour Party!

comradely

Gary
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