Re: [Marxism] Are riots revolutionary? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 5/31/20 10:01 AM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism wrote: May I make a comment from a distance? If I was given a choice between the previous period of relative inactivity and the current upsurge of struggle, I would take the current upsurge, with whatever shortcomings it has. I think some of the shortcomings may be inevitable until a leadership gels. And this leadership is struggling to emerge from the smothering influence of the Democratic Party. Within the current upsurge I would support those who are trying to promote self-organization and a perspective of ongoing struggle. ken h To anybody who might have gotten the wrong impression, my post was a polemic against a poetry professor who argues that riots are the form of the coming insurrection. That's from the Verso blurb, as if Tariq Ali doesn't know the difference between an insurrection and a revolution. I also included FB posts by Rick Sklader who embraced the protests, including the burning of Target. He warned, however, about alt-right penetration of the protests that led to the burning of a library and a black-owned barbershop. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Are riots revolutionary? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * May I make a comment from a distance? If I was given a choice between the previous period of relative inactivity and the current upsurge of struggle, I would take the current upsurge, with whatever shortcomings it has. I think some of the shortcomings may be inevitable until a leadership gels. And this leadership is struggling to emerge from the smothering influence of the Democratic Party. Within the current upsurge I would support those who are trying to promote self-organization and a perspective of ongoing struggle. ken h _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] on riots
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * From Facebook: Johan Permakult Repost- troubling if true. //I’m not usually on FB during Shabbat but I’ve been immersed in the news today. This post is from a friend’s timeline. He lives in Minneapolis and he reposted this eye witness description from his neighbor of what is actually happening there. My City is under seige. Mt neighbor Jeff Forester sums up the situtation below: So for those of you who are interested - I have no idea how national media is covering this - here is what is happening on the ground from my perspective. It is a long post. All day yesterday people were out on the street helping businesses - EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS IN UPTOWN has boarded up windows and locked down their stores. The 3rd Precinct, which burned on down Thursday night, is on the east end of Lake Street. Uptown, where we live and the 5th Precinct police station is located, is three miles west on lake street. All of Lake Street was looted on Thursday night. On Friday EVERY BUSINESS on Lake Street and adjoining commercial districts, was boarded up. Many spray painted murals on the plywood - let folks know they were a local or minority owned business. Essential businesses. Last night was by far the worst night. Protests during the day were peaceful. There was an 8:00pm curfew. Everything changed when the sun went down. There are roving and highly organized bands of anti-government neo-nazi white men cruising the city, breaking off plywood, looting stores, and then setting them fire to the buildings. On the Northside, which is predominately African American, the situation was much the same. Local civic groups were trying to protect local businesses and homes. there were many fires. The violence and destruction is NOT being driven by local people. The cars on the streets have either removed their license plates, or have out of state plates. Here is a post from a neighbor, "Everybody! We need to get our heads around what’s happening, Mpls and St Paul are being attacked by fascist “accelerationist” white crazies. Trying to divide & destroy us. Accelerationism: the idea inspiring white supremacist killers around the world -Vox" Expect these same types to infiltrate all of the legitimate protests happening in other cities in America. We are fighting an enemy within. These "accelerationists" burned down the 5th Police Precinct, our post office, every pharmacy. The Wallgreens and CVS within a few blocks of our house are still burning this morning. The grocery stores were all hit. Every bank has been hit. Every liquor store, every gas station. They have guns and accelerants. When National Guard show up, they disappear into the neighborhoods and have been setting fires. It is a violent game of arsonist wake-a-mole. There is no longer any fire fighting service available - overwhelmed. So neighbors are using garden hoses to put out the fires and save homes. Pictures neighbors are sharing - these are young white men, heavily armed. According to authorities there are over 10,000 of these "accelerationists" in the city. St. Paul arrested over 50 people last night. ALL OF THEM were from out of state. The authorities are checking phones of the people they have arrested, doing contact tracing of sorts on these people. These people are connected to right wing militia style groups with a civil/race war fantasy. They are opportunistically using the legitimate, peaceful George Floyd protests as a cover to actualize their neo-nazi fever dream. Gov. Walz just said, "If you know where these people are sleeping today, let us know and we will execute warrants. Allie and I were helping the owner of a commercial building up the street - a friend, and two of these guys came up to us. Wanted to know where the free food was being distributed. He gave them an address that was three blocks away. Had no idea what we were talking about - not from here. Allie, the girls and I are fine and safe. Exhausted. Angry. We have not really slept in three days. Everyone in Minneapolis/St. Paul is the same. So, what to do? Our neighborhood group is meeting at the park this afternoon. I think that they will organize our neighborhood watch to patrol, try to spot fires and get them out ASAP. Major protests are planned for today. They want the other three police officers involved in George Floyd's murder arrested, they want the MN Attorney General, not the Hennepin County Attorney to manage the case. They want the MPD disbanded and reformed with many alternative public safety and law enforcement strategies used. But the legitimate protests will end at 8:00 pm. The Gov.
[Marxism] on riots
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Lou and I had a spat about this so long ago. I am less sympathetic now to riots than I once was. Burning down a building is never near as radical as occupying it. Riots don't really challenge private property rights and it is still private property that is at the heart of capitalism. Having said that my sympathies, of course, are totally with the people of the USA in their struggle now against state brutality. Comradely Gary _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Are riots revolutionary? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * My gut reaction is that if riots were revolutionary the police wouldn't put so much energy into using agents provocateurs to start them. They may allow an expression of anger but only in a way that is unsustainable, doesn't go anywhere or build anything, and which excludes most people from participating. They (most people) instead hide in their homes in fear and emerge to burnt neighbourhoods. On Sun, 31 May 2020, 06:47 Louis Proyect via Marxism, < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > About a week ago, someone posted a link to a Verso book by Joshua Clover > titled “Riot. Strike. Riot: The New Era of Uprisings” that I took a > quick gander at on the Verso website. It stated that “Political theorist > Joshua Clover theorizes the riot as the form of the coming > insurrection.” I didn’t pay that much attention to it except to note > that insurrection is a problematic term if you are a Marxist, at least > if it is understood as anything like October 1917. There wasn’t much > that was insurrectionary about it or for that matter neither was there > much rioting going on in Russia. Mostly, there were mass protests > demanding peace, bread and land. > > full: https://louisproyect.org/2020/05/30/are-riots-revolutionary/ > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/johnedmundson4%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Are riots revolutionary? | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * About a week ago, someone posted a link to a Verso book by Joshua Clover titled “Riot. Strike. Riot: The New Era of Uprisings” that I took a quick gander at on the Verso website. It stated that “Political theorist Joshua Clover theorizes the riot as the form of the coming insurrection.” I didn’t pay that much attention to it except to note that insurrection is a problematic term if you are a Marxist, at least if it is understood as anything like October 1917. There wasn’t much that was insurrectionary about it or for that matter neither was there much rioting going on in Russia. Mostly, there were mass protests demanding peace, bread and land. full: https://louisproyect.org/2020/05/30/are-riots-revolutionary/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Riots work: Wolf Blitzer and the Washington Post completely missed the real lesson from Baltimore - Salon.com
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.salon.com/2015/05/04/riots_work_wolf_blitzer_and_the_washington_post_completely_missed_the_real_lesson_from_baltimore/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
