Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Parting of the Ways
If marxism contains a significant philosophical dimension then it should have attempted to establish the nature of knowledge and how certain that knowledge. Questions such as how we have knowledge of the world have not been adequately answered by marxism. Not even a serious attempt to answer these questions. This is just what Bertrand Russell sought the answers to. Paddy Hackett -- - Original Message - From: CeJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Parting of the Ways WL writes:All the various Marxists writers, with few exceptions - like you, are partly to blame by defining Marxism as a philosophy. Nowhere can one find an ounce of philosophy in Marx most famous statements like the passages from the Preface to A Contribution to A Critique . . . where he speaks of the mode of ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
[Marxism-Thaxis] Moritz Schlick
Hi Have been reading Schlick. Heavish going. Do you know of any online sources that provide a summary of his philosophy. Paddy Hackett ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc.
Hi Jim Given what I have studied of BT and given his failure to participate more actively in the Vienna Circle I have been of the opinion that he was not a verificationist. The admiration, and apparent benign relationship between Popper and BT, I would have thought, might even indicate that he was closer to Popper than A.J. Ayer. Paddy Hackett - Original Message - From: Jim Farmelant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc. On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:47:50 +0100 rasherrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Given that Bertrand Russell rejected verificationism as the criterion as to what is science, can you tell me what was his criterion or criteria for identifying science as against non-science was? What makes you think that Russell wasn't a verificationist? It seems to me that his logical atomism was at least by implication, verificationist. Paddy Hackett ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Symbolic Logic
Interesting intro Charles. Much appreciated Paddy - Original Message - From: Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Symbolic Logic Theory of descriptions Jump to: navigation, search The theory of descriptions is one of the philosopher Bertrand Russell's most significant contributions to the philosophy of language. It is also termed Russell's Theory of Descriptions (often abbreviated as RTD). In short, Russell argued that the superficial syntactic form of descriptions (phrases usually of the form The X and An X) is misleading, as it does not match their logical or semantic structure. While descriptions may seem fairly insignificant phrases, Russell and others have argued that providing a satisfactory analysis of their linguistic and logical properties is vital to clarity in important philosophical debates, particularly in semantics, ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc.
Hi Given that Bertrand Russell rejected verificationism as the criterion as to what is science, can you tell me what was his criterion or criteria for identifying science as against non-science was? Paddy Hackett ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
[Marxism-Thaxis] Symbolic Logic
Hi Jim and others Perhaps you can help me here. How does the development of symbolic logic by BR and others apply to logical atomism. How does this logic relate to propositions and their relationship with each other Paddy Hackett ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc.
Hi Jim Interesting! You seem very familiar with the Vienna Circle. What was it that attracted your interest in it? Paddy Hackett - Original Message - From: Jim Farmelant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Cc: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc. On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 09:53:37 +0100 rasherrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you for the help in relation to the Vienna Circle. It is a circle that has been much misunderstood in radical left circles. When I was in my late teens I was led to the view that it was a crassly reactionary group. The Frankfurters in particular pushed that view of the Circle, as did many Soviet or pro-Soviet writers, who emphasized Leninist opposition to Machism. Why did Wittgenstein not view himself as a logical positivist? The Circle admired Wittgenstein, but he was not inclined to reciprocate. He thought that they misunderstood what he was attempting to do. He was willing to meet with individual members of the Circle, with people like Schlick, Carnap, Feigl etc. but he refused to meet with the Circle as a whole. What, if any, the principal difference(s) between their philosophies in these early days. I can see why there is a difference between Popper and Logical Positivism --the question of verfiability over falsifiablity. There were differences with in the Circle over such issues as physicalist realism versus phenonomenalism, coherence theories of truth versus correspondence theories of truth. Later on there were somewhat different understandings of what was entailed by the unity of science. Did that mean that a straight forward reductionist program was possible with everything being ultimately reduced to the laws of chemistry and physics, or did it simply mean that all meaningul propositions about the world, whether those propositions be from the natural sciences, or the behavioral and social sciences, were expressible in terms of physicalist language? Neurath tended to champion holistic conceptions of truth and knowledge and he shied away from extreme reductionism. His positions were thus akin to those that many Marxists have held over the years. Jim F. Paddy Hackett - Original Message - From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Cc: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc. Interesting. I wonder if I should put this or similar items into my bibliography. This is a Marxist advocating the Popperian approach as a way of circumventing doctrinal rigidification. Can you think of other Marxists who have taken this road? ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc.
How does A.J. Ayer fit into this matter of the peculiarities of the reception of logical empiricism into the anglophone world. I obtained my initial more direct experience of it throug Ayer's titles? Paddy Hackett -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc. I am interested in them because of my general interest in the philosophy of science and the broader implications: culturally, socially and politically of differing ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc.
Thank you for the help in relation to the Vienna Circle. It is a circle that has been much misunderstood in radical left circles. When I was in my late teens I was led to the view that it was a crassly reactionary group. Why did Wittgenstein not view himself as a logical positivist? What, if any, the principal difference(s) between their philosophies in these early days. I can see why there is a difference between Popper and Logical Positivism --the question of verfiability over falsifiablity. Paddy Hackett - Original Message - From: Ralph Dumain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Cc: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle etc. Interesting. I wonder if I should put this or similar items into my bibliography. This is a Marxist advocating the Popperian approach as a way of circumventing doctrinal rigidification. Can you think of other Marxists who have taken this road? ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
[Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle ettc.
The argument between the Vienna Circle and Karl Popper on the matter of the verification principle. Popper susbtituted the falsficaion principle for the verification principle. I believe that this and related issues have been at best neglected by marxism. Yet is a matter of signifcance. The problem of the entire relationship between the physical sciences, the human sciences and what is known as everyday common sense is one that needs badly to be solved. Without a solution to it communism stands on weak and unconvincing ground. Perhaps it should be recalled that the Vienna Circle contained socialists and was not a right wing intellectual circle. Even Popper had been associated with marxism in his youth. He was later to become a liberal. These people as marxism often suggests were not extreme right wing ideologues. Bertrand Russell exercised an enormous influence on the Vienna Circle and on Popper. Yet it cannot be said that he was politically reactionary. Paddy Hackett ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle ettc.
Interesting! Are there available any English copies of The Scientific Conception of the World? - Original Message - From: Jim Farmelant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Cc: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Vienna Circle ettc. On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:22:21 -0400 Charles Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: rasherrs rasherrs - --- The argument between the Vienna Circle and Karl Popper on the matter of the verification principle. Popper susbtituted the falsficaion principle for the verification principle. I believe that this and related issues have been at best neglected by marxism. Yet is a matter of signifcance. The problem of the entire relationship between the physical sciences, the human sciences and what is known as everyday common sense is one that needs badly to be solved. Without a solution to it communism stands on weak and unconvincing ground. Perhaps it should be recalled that the Vienna Circle contained socialists and was not a right wing intellectual circle. Even Popper had been associated with marxism in his youth. He was later to become a liberal. These people as marxism often suggests were not extreme right wing ideologues. Bertrand Russell exercised an enormous influence on the Vienna Circle and on Popper. Yet it cannot be said that he was politically reactionary. ^ CB: Yea, Russell was a liberal. Jim F. can tell you who was a Marxist and who not in the Vienna Circle , and among the logical positivists. The name of the Marxist among them will come to me in a minute. ___ Among the Vienna Circle, Otto Neurath was an avowed Marxist. He was by training a mathematician, an economist and a sociologist. At the time of the 1919 revolution in Germany, he was appointed by the Social Democratic government in Bavaria to run a commission for overseeing the socialization of the economy. Not long after that, the Social Democrats were displaced by a radical left government comprised of Communists, left Social Democrats and anarchists. They kept Neurath in his post. Later after the 1919 revolution was suppressed, Neurath was arrested and put on trial for treason. The treason charges against him were eventually dropped after protests from the Austrian government and the intercession of prominent academics in Germany, including his old teacher Max Weber. After that, he returned to his native Austria, where he remained active in the Austrian SPD and became very much involved in worker education. As an admirer of Ernst Mach, Neurath fell in with a loosely knit group of scientifically minded philosophers and philosophically minded scientists who were concerned with updating Mach's philosophy in light of then recent developments in science and mathematical logic. This group became known as the Vienna Circle and although Moritz Schlick was its titular head. Otto Neurath and Rudolf Carnap were its dominant figures. It was Neurath and Carnap who drew up the group's manifesto, The Scientific Conception of the World; The Vienna Circle. In that document, Neurath and Carnap emphasized the broader concerns of the circle which extended beyond logic and the philosophy of science to encompass issues in culture, education and politics. They made clear their orientation to socialism and they included Karl Marx in their list of thinkers who considered to be progenitors of the scientific conception of the world. Politically, most of the Vienna Circle were left social democrats. However, there were a few members like Schlick, and Richard von Mises (the brother of economist Ludwig von Mises) who were not all socialists or social democrats but were liberals in the continental European senses (that is they were they were free marketeers). ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
