[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
With apologies to Eve, please consider the following: Regarding the second part of her email; If your budget allows you to use a good commercial printer who has printed art publications before, you will have exceptional results from an entirely digital workflow. True, we rarely see press-proofs any more, but that is due to the fact that color seps and printers have been able to produce very accurate guide proofs from newer generation studio printers. All I can say is that this puts the success of the color printing entirely in the hands of a pressman who may or may not be paying attention. It removes all hope of the editor and designer (the people with real expertise and who really care about the color accuracy) having any opportunity to intervene and improve color. We cannot require a printer to improve color if we cannot point to anything to show that the color is less than accurate. If museums are comfortable with this, then they should by all means remove the color bar and grayscale. But the publishers will then be in an excellent position to say, Sorry, we printed what we were given. In my experience, museums expect more attention to color quality on the part of publishers. Absent a grayscale and color bar, our hands are tied. Also, of course, not all publishers work with the top printers, nor should museums expect that optimum printing conditions will be the norm. For example, most printers who know color printing well are working for the ad industry, where color standards are very different (e.g., maximum color saturation is desirable). There are almost no printers left who specialize in art printing-and they are mostly in Italy and Japan, which are beyond the budgets of most art publishers today. Lastly, newer generation studio printers are great-I hope they get installed soon. But in the meantime we are in a crucial transition period in which many (most) publishers and printers are not working with the latest equipment. I daresay smaller publishers will be in that position for a long time to come. Capture software as well as CMYK printing is moving forward very quickly and at this point has surpassed film, allowing us to control color and ink densities like never before. Image quality control is far more ?in front of the curtain? now as we all see the images immediately at every point of the workflow. In some cases your printer may provide on-line services, allowing you to soft proof images and make edits on the fly (all before you go on press for quality control.) I don't dispute this, and I welcome it. Indeed, color printing has become less costly as a result. What I worry about is the blithe assumption that the tech can ensure quality, and that experienced editors and designers are not needed to take part in the process. In the past 5 years I have seen a sharp decline in much color reproduction of artworks because we are working with digital scans that have no visual guideposts. Every art publisher I know is distressed at this trend. Regards, Eve Sinaiko CAA
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Ah. the bygone days of the 4x5 transparency. For those publishers who lament the passing of transparencies I can only say this: be happy they are gone. We have been fooling ourselves for a long time but did not realize it until really good direct digital capture came to the fore. It turns out that transparency film is actually a dreadful medium for reproducing artwork. It has a very limited dynamic range, and a color gamut that often missed the colors of the original artwork. How can this have been allowed to happen, you may ask? In those days the workflow reality was that by the time the film came back from the lab, the painting was often out of the studio, so conducting a direct comparison was impossible. Even when it was possible to compare a transparency with an original, the 4x5 chrome was a glowing jewel on a light box, and the painting was illuminated by room light. The reality is that publishers never had to print an accurate rendition of the original artwork-- they just had to match the transparency. The transparency became the original-- and it could easily travel to the separator and the printing plant, and be directly compared to a proof or even a press sheet. We achieve much more accurate reproductions with direct digital captures; however it comes at a price. Things are much more complicated. ICC color management works really well-- but only if implemented correctly. However, it is very complex-- (review Ken's post-- dense stuff, and I'm sure he was dumbing it down for us!) A single misapplied color profile can throw things WAY off. As Ken accurately pointed out, in such a situation the grayscale might well look perfect! Not all is hopeless, though. Direct digital capture is fast, and it is possible to perform good color adjustments in a controlled environment very quickly-- enabling direct comparisons with artwork while it is still in the studio. However it requires a very different approach than shooting transparencies. Calibration is important. Viewing environments must be controlled. In other words, this subject goes way beyond grayscales and color bars, but rather highlights the need to establish clear guidelines and procedures. Thankfully there are lots of initiatives to do this, some of which are highlighted at the upcoming MCN conference. Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Hi Eve, Most of us care about color accuracy but we may define it differently. Color bars used at the point of capture are a false sense of security because they react differently to light than pigments. Color bars used in late stages for process control are a different story and can have value. Art printing? The master of masters is at MOMA now. Richard Benson's great show and extraordinarily beautiful catalogue, The Printed Picture, forcefully articulates a dilemma facing us all in art publishing. Virtually all printing is tied to color science and calibration and digital controls. Good or bad? Richard worries how we can retain our sensitivity if we are forced to abandon the instinctive response, our human-ness, our aesthetic, the seat of the pants controls we had in photography in the last century, if we are mired in calibration and measurements? He feels that the danger in this technical complexity is we'll abandon the unexpected and unpredictable which is the most fertile ground in art. Perhaps I'm more optimistic and aligned with Jeff Evans. The learning curve is much steeper now. For better or worse we've stopped rubbing chemicals on paper. I made platinum prints for years and the head to toes excitement doing that I will never find in Photoshop. If we work our way through this, either ourselves, or partnering with those that understand it, we can have our cake and eat it. The latest enhancements to printing technology like Indigo, GRACoL and colorimetrically controlled presses actually takes the color decisions away from the press operator and places it in the eyes and brain of whoever is designated to vouch for the reproduction. Sometimes this is a publisher, a photographer, a color editor, a curator or at best it can be agreement among all. ImageMuse came together to tackle this problem: Color reproduction cannot be trusted using digital files received from unfamiliar sources without embedded color profiles and/or guide prints. Anyone that opens the image file at any stage from capture through file preparation, design and printing must understand all the roles in correct color handling. Best, Alan On 10/30/08 12:29 PM, Eve Sinaiko esinaiko at collegeart.org wrote: With apologies to Eve, please consider the following: Regarding the second part of her email; If your budget allows you to use a good commercial printer who has printed art publications before, you will have exceptional results from an entirely digital workflow. True, we rarely see press-proofs any more, but that is due to the fact that color seps and printers have been able to produce very accurate guide proofs from newer generation studio printers. Jeff Evans. All I can say is that this puts the success of the color printing entirely in the hands of a pressman who may or may not be paying attention. It removes all hope of the editor and designer (the people with real expertise and who really care about the color accuracy) having any opportunity to intervene and improve color. We cannot require a printer to improve color if we cannot point to anything to show that the color is less than accurate. If museums are comfortable with this, then they should by all means remove the color bar and grayscale. But the publishers will then be in an excellent position to say, Sorry, we printed what we were given. In my experience, museums expect more attention to color quality on the part of publishers. Absent a grayscale and color bar, our hands are tied. Also, of course, not all publishers work with the top printers, nor should museums expect that optimum printing conditions will be the norm. For example, most printers who know color printing well are working for the ad industry, where color standards are very different (e.g., maximum color saturation is desirable). There are almost no printers left who specialize in art printing-and they are mostly in Italy and Japan, which are beyond the budgets of most art publishers today. Lastly, newer generation studio printers are great-I hope they get installed soon. But in the meantime we are in a crucial transition period in which many (most) publishers and printers are not working with the latest equipment. I daresay smaller publishers will be in that position for a long time to come. Capture software as well as CMYK printing is moving forward very quickly and at this point has surpassed film, allowing us to control color and ink densities like never before. Image quality control is far more ?in front of the curtain? now as we all see the images immediately at every point of the workflow. In some cases your printer may provide on-line services, allowing you to soft proof images and make edits on the fly (all before you go on press for quality control.) I don't dispute this, and I welcome it. Indeed, color printing has become less costly as a result. What I worry about is the blithe assumption that the tech can ensure quality, and that
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
With apologies to Eve, please consider the following: Regarding the second part of her email; If your budget allows you to use a good commercial printer who has printed art publications before, you will have exceptional results from an entirely digital workflow. True, we rarely see press-proofs any more, but that is due to the fact that color seps and printers have been able to produce very accurate guide proofs from newer generation studio printers. Capture software as well as CMYK printing is moving forward very quickly and at this point has surpassed film, allowing us to control color and ink densities like never before. Image quality control is far more ?in front of the curtain? now as we all see the images immediately at every point of the workflow. In some cases your printer may provide on-line services, allowing you to soft proof images and make edits on the fly (all before you go on press for quality control.) JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/28/08 6:30 PM, Eve Sinaiko esinaiko at collegeart.org wrote: Imperfect as a color bar or grayscale may be, I would put in an ardent plea for their inclusion in all digital scans, whether of old rescanned transparencies or new scans of artworks. I speak on behalf of the publishers and printers who have been left with no visual cues to guide color correction on press. The quality of color printing from digital scans fluctuates wildly because the skilled eyes of editors and book designers have no guide. However good the embedded digital information may be, there is no substitute for looking at a color bar and grayscale to see if the press proof is running too warm or cold, too contrasty, or too saturated. Not to mention that digital presses are calibrated as variably as computer monitors, and most printers use standard settings. Every art publisher I know is deeply unhappy with the shift from transparencies to digital scans for this reason. We may love the financial savings in using digital files of art images at the design and layout stage, but we have completely lost control of the color process, and are dependent on the guesswork of printers. To be clear: The grayscale and color bar are normally not guides for the printer but for the editor and/or designer who checks the proofs. The color correction is made by them, and the printer follows those directions. Printers typically do not consult the color bar or grayscale, as they use their own standard settings at the proof stage. Comparison of a color proof with the original artwork is a vanished concept. Today's production budgets, schedules, and methods have done away with that step, except perhaps within a museum's own publication program. The digital scans made of artworks by museums are used not only internally, but also by myriad outside publishers. I will dodge the interesting but unresolvable question of what publishers mean by accurate color printing. To quote Justice Potter Stewart in another context, we know it when we see it. Regards, Eve Sinaiko Director of Publications College Art Association ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
There was a question raised about whether to include color bars while digitizing aged photo albums and Stanley Smith posted a reply. I asked Ken Fleisher of my staff at the National Gallery (who does not belong to this list) to prepare a comment to Stanley to post. This is a core topic of an upcoming Mellon benchmark grant to the RIT School of Printing and Dr. Franziska Frey who will work with some of the museums in ImageMuse. Please come to the ImageMuse panel at MCN for more discussion. Thanks, Alan Newman. Stanley?s comments are preceded by and Ken?s replies follow each of the comments. Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. I think it's important to begin introducing the distinction into common usage between scene-referred encoding and output-referred encoding (see definitions at the end of this message). The idea of accurately reproducing any target that was captured with the artwork on a printed output, even if there were not issues associated with metamerism (which there are), is in my opinion an incorrect goal to begin with. To accurately capture a target in the digital image implies a scene-referred encoding and is a valid goal in artwork reproduction. By recording the scene information, you have the opportunity to know more about the object itself and to properly transform it as necessary for various types of output. On the other hand, to accurately reproduce that same target on a printed output implies that the goal is to transfer the scene colorimetry to the printed page. This is an incorrect goal because to make the best possible reproduction, it will be necessary to alter the tone reproduction curve (TRC), if nothing else, to reflect the differences in viewing condition associated with a printed image on a white page. For example, there is often a more limited gamut on the printed image so a TRC adjustment will be needed to compensate for the difference in appearance, the white page surrounding the image makes further TRC adjustment necessary, the level of illumination for viewing the printed image is likely different from how the artwork was illuminated during photography which, once again, means additional TRC adjustment is needed. With that out of the way, I have one more comment which I hope to bring into public discussion and awareness. That is the idea of creating an accurate reproduction . I understand why everyone says this, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, but the fact is that there is no single accurate reproduction. There are many renderings of the artwork which can be considered accurate for a given viewing condition. The appearance will be different if you view the artwork in gallery lighting versus 5000K lighting. Which is more accurate? They both are equally accurate. The same holds true even if you keep the same lighting and place the artwork in a white matte and hang it on a white wall versus using a beige matte on a dark gray wall. The artwork will have a different appearance, but both are accurate. So which one do you reproduce? It is my hope that we will all start using the term appearance preserving reproduction rather than accurate reproduction and that we will have a defined viewing condition associated with the appearance that we are trying to reproduce. This may seem like a subtle point to some, but I feel it is an important distinction in helping remove ambiguities from our discussions. Further, and more related to the question at hand, it makes it more clear that an appearance preserving reproduction of a target is more important, and more appropriate, than a colorimetrically accurate one. Back to the comment above. It is correct to state that due to differences in pigments, the use of a color target to capture scene-referred colorimetry is a bad idea and will only have limited success. Therefore it is not recommended to use a color target for any capture (Note we are talking about standard targets like the ColorChecker--a case could be made for specialized targets that are known to be spectrally relevant to the object being photographed). On the other hand, an idea I adapted from the conservation guidelines is to include a single color patch simply to indicate that the capture is in color rather than grayscale. With regard to a grayscale target, something like the Kodak Q-13 is not appropriate for capture because it is not made from spectrally neutral materials (it is printed on photographic paper). However a set of step wedges that are spectrally neutral, such as the gray patches of the GretagMacbeth ColorChecker, are very useful to include when capturing
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
I read these fast, so I might have missed it, but no one is mentioning CMYK printing. That is what all this is about. If you're working with a good printer, especially one who reproduces fine art images on a regular basis, your color workflow will be guided by them. Color scales in the film will help you with selecting the best exposure as well as creating a balanced scan. Color targets in direct capture images will assist the software in creating a balanced image. Both targets matter to the color separator who is converting your file to CMYK. And, if your workflow allows it, you are hard proofing the CMYK print against the actual work under controlled lighting conditions. JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/20/08 10:15 PM, Thiel, Sarah Goodwin sgthiel at ku.edu wrote: nicely put. -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. - There is some interest in the production of virtual grayscales and color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and color bars. - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then it is really not good practice to only do it once for a batch. It is too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- especially years hence. Put them in every image. Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 mcn-l-request at mcn.edu 10/15/2008 12:00 PM Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of mcn-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Frank E. Thomson) 3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Tim Atherton) 4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Nilsen, Dianne) 5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany (akeshet at imj.org.il) 6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use (akeshet at imj.org.il) 7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Genevieve De mahy) 8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. Zorich) 9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) 14. Re: free ftp software? (Melissa Johnson) 15. The Museum System on Mac via VMWare Fusion (Jeff Evans) 16. Re: free ftp software? (Perian Sully) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:04:21 -0400 From: Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) remko.jansonius at vizcayamuseum.org Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Message-ID: 9C2785C9A3152441B3AAC2E03346BC4C039C0AD3 at s0141136.miamidade.gov Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Interesting thread. Our current solution to the issues below is to capture a Macbeth Color Checker within every shot and save that file as DNG. We then convert to TIFF, crop away the captured color checker, do our visual editing tweaks, and insert an electronically generated ?perfect? Macbeth chart into the tiff which becomes our distribution copy. In this way we have documentation of our captured color in the DNG, but avoid losing our color corrections down the reproduction chain by anyone who might be tempted to neutralize on the gray patches. Erik Erik Landsberg Head of Collections Imaging The Museum of Modern Art 11 West 53 Street, New York, NY 10019 212-708-9489 erik_landsberg at moma.org www.moma.org From: Jeff Evans jfev...@princeton.edu Reply-To: Museum Computer Network Listserv mcn-l at mcn.edu Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:05:59 -0400 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv mcn-l at mcn.edu Conversation: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? I read these fast, so I might have missed it, but no one is mentioning CMYK printing. That is what all this is about. If you're working with a good printer, especially one who reproduces fine art images on a regular basis, your color workflow will be guided by them. Color scales in the film will help you with selecting the best exposure as well as creating a balanced scan. Color targets in direct capture images will assist the software in creating a balanced image. Both targets matter to the color separator who is converting your file to CMYK. And, if your workflow allows it, you are hard proofing the CMYK print against the actual work under controlled lighting conditions. JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/20/08 10:15 PM, Thiel, Sarah Goodwin sgthiel at ku.edu wrote: nicely put. -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. - There is some interest in the production of virtual grayscales and color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and color bars. - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then it is really not good practice to only do it once for a batch. It is too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- especially years hence. Put them in every image. Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 mcn-l-request at mcn.edu 10/15/2008 12:00 PM Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of mcn-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Frank E. Thomson) 3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Tim Atherton) 4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Nilsen, Dianne) 5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany (akeshet at imj.org.il) 6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use (akeshet at imj.org.il) 7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Genevieve De mahy) 8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. Zorich) 9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) 14. Re: free ftp
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: ? due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. ? If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. ? There is some interest in the production of virtual grayscales and color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and color bars. ? If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then it is really not good practice to only do it once for a batch. It is too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- especially years hence. Put them in every image. Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 mcn-l-request at mcn.edu 10/15/2008 12:00 PM Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of mcn-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Frank E. Thomson) 3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Tim Atherton) 4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Nilsen, Dianne) 5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany (akeshet at imj.org.il) 6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use (akeshet at imj.org.il) 7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Genevieve De mahy) 8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. Zorich) 9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) 14. Re: free ftp software? (Melissa Johnson) 15. The Museum System on Mac via VMWare Fusion (Jeff Evans) 16. Re: free ftp software? (Perian Sully) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:04:21 -0400 From: Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) remko.janson...@vizcayamuseum.org Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Message-ID: 9C2785C9A3152441B3AAC2E03346BC4C039C0AD3 at s0141136.miamidade.gov Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:06:12 -0400 From: Frank E. Thomson fthom...@ashevilleart.org Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? To: Museum Computer Network Listserv mcn-l at mcn.edu Message-ID: 6905D9194DC5B6489FA18E7E0763D9740701097682 at server4.ashart.local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would suggest shooting an image of the color bar at the start of each session, maybe not in every image. But it would be helpful later trying to match color and value. Frank Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
nicely put. -Original Message- From: mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. - There is some interest in the production of virtual grayscales and color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and color bars. - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then it is really not good practice to only do it once for a batch. It is too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- especially years hence. Put them in every image. Stanley Smith Manager, Imaging Services J. Paul Getty Museum 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 (310) 440-7286 mcn-l-request at mcn.edu 10/15/2008 12:00 PM Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to mcn-l at mcn.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mcn-l-request at mcn.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of mcn-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Frank E. Thomson) 3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Tim Atherton) 4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Nilsen, Dianne) 5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany (akeshet at imj.org.il) 6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use (akeshet at imj.org.il) 7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? (Genevieve De mahy) 8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. Zorich) 9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) 14. Re: free ftp software? (Melissa Johnson) 15. The Museum System on Mac via VMWare Fusion (Jeff Evans) 16. Re: free ftp software? (Perian Sully) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:04:21 -0400 From: Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) remko.janson...@vizcayamuseum.org Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Message-ID: 9C2785C9A3152441B3AAC2E03346BC4C039C0AD3 at s0141136.miamidade.gov Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:06:12 -0400 From: Frank E. Thomson fthom...@ashevilleart.org Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? To: Museum Computer Network Listserv mcn-l at mcn.edu Message-ID: 6905D9194DC5B6489FA18E7E0763D9740701097682 at server4.ashart.local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would suggest shooting an image of the color bar at the start of each session, maybe not in every image. But it would be helpful later trying to match color and value. Frank Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Dear Remko, As Dianne mentioned, the color bars are extremely important parts of digitizing a collection, particularly when you are dealing with older photographs that may vary in condition. The CWM recently digitized over 6,800 official photographs from the First World War, most of which had been stuck in albums for decades. The decision was made to remove them from the deteriorating condition of the albums themselves, and we were left with every kind of problem from color fade to cracking. We went ahead with careful scanning nonetheless and always used a color bar in that process. Even though this initiative was funded in support of our latest online project, the now digital photos selected from this collection for use in the module were then cropped to remove the color bar for the shows version of the captured image. I insisted on ensuring the primary archival function of the artifact was prominent over the one-time show requirement, regardless of the extra resources required to accomplish it, and it has served us well. Not only is the show a great success, showing 261 of the beautiful images, but our Image Reproduction Services reports requests for other images from the collection, and because they have the Master digital to work with, color bar and all, they can accommodate the broadest range of requests without having to manipulate the original, fragile, image again. My suggestion would be not to short change yourself on future use, take the time now to ensure it is done for years to come. Regards, Genevieve -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
I would suggest shooting an image of the color bar at the start of each session, maybe not in every image. But it would be helpful later trying to match color and value. Frank Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
And don't bother with the Kodak cards - get the Gretag Macbeth ones instead. (they usefully come in a couple of sizes as well). (especially, don't rely on old colour charts you may have around from the days when you had a photographer 7 or 8 years ago. They fade over time and the colours also fade differentially) http://xrite.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm?act=catalog.cfmmenugroup=__me nu+usa+new tim a -- Tim Atherton Assistant Curator (Archives Research) Mus?e H?ritage Museum, St. Albert (780) 459-1594 tatherton at st-albert.net On 10/14/08 3:06 PM, Frank E. Thomson FThomson at ashevilleart.org wrote: I would suggest shooting an image of the color bar at the start of each session, maybe not in every image. But it would be helpful later trying to match color and value. Frank Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l -- Tim Atherton Assistant Curator Mus?e H?ritage Museum, St. Albert (780) 459-1594 tatherton at st-albert.net
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
At the Center for Creative Photography, University of Arizona, our imaging department places a Kodak color bar and grayscale within every scan. We replace the targets every 6 months or so and keep them in their enclosures within light tight drawers to minimize fading. Just yesterday, one of my interns from the art department questioned the quality of one of our scans of a Robert Heinecken photograph. I pointed out to her that because the artist was experimental in his approach, the images did not always look like one would expect a full toned black and white photograph to look. The clue was in the appearance of the targets and the tonal percentages we measure within them. The National Archives and Records Administration guidelines below are particularly useful as they suggest specific values to aim for in the black, white and middle gray of the Kodak targets. The NARA target recommendations are very closely aligned with recommendations we have garnered from pre-press digital professionals for creating publication quality scans. See pages 35 and 36 in the guidelines below for handy illustrations. http://www.archives.gov/preservation/technical/guidelines.html Based on Tim Atherton's comments, I wish a similar guide would be published that references the Greytag MacBeth targets. Kodak targets are getting hard to find. If anyone has seen a publication comparable to the NARA guidelines that reference the MacBeth targets I would be interested in learning about it. Best, Dianne ~ ? Dianne Nilsen Head of Digital Initiatives and Imaging Center for Creative Photography The University of Arizona P.O. Box 210103 Tucson, AZ? 85721-0103 ? p. 520-307-2829 f. 520-621-9444 http://www.creativephotography.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Tim Atherton Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:39 PM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? And don't bother with the Kodak cards - get the Gretag Macbeth ones instead. (they usefully come in a couple of sizes as well). (especially, don't rely on old colour charts you may have around from the days when you had a photographer 7 or 8 years ago. They fade over time and the colours also fade differentially) http://xrite.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm?act=catalog.cfmmenugroup=__me nu+usa+new tim a -- Tim Atherton Assistant Curator (Archives Research) Mus?e H?ritage Museum, St. Albert (780) 459-1594 tatherton at st-albert.net On 10/14/08 3:06 PM, Frank E. Thomson FThomson at ashevilleart.org wrote: I would suggest shooting an image of the color bar at the start of each session, maybe not in every image. But it would be helpful later trying to match color and value. Frank Thomson, Curator Asheville Art Museum PO Box 1717 Asheville, NC 28802 828.253.3227 tel 828257.4503 fax www.ashevilleart.org -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya) Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:04 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Dear Colleagues, We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? As always, I greatly appreciate y'all's input! Sincerely, Remko Jansonius Collections and Archives Manager Vizcaya Museum and Gardens Miami, FL ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l -- Tim Atherton Assistant Curator Mus?e H?ritage Museum, St. Albert (780) 459-1594 tatherton at st-albert.net ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman
