Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My comment: Why is there no outcry to correct this slaughter. Driving schools, in or out of public schools, turn out uneducated and untrained drivers who basically know how to drive around the block and park a car, but nothing about stopping distance, skid control, following distance, etc.. Each parent needs to be tough about this and not just give in to their child's quest for freedom. Um, I learned about all these things in drivers training. Has the curriculum been significantly relaxed in the last 20 years? Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
YES! Thinking that proper training of young (and some old) drivers isn't a problem is in itself a BIG problem! Werner - Original Message - From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My comment: Why is there no outcry to correct this slaughter. Driving schools, in or out of public schools, turn out uneducated and untrained drivers who basically know how to drive around the block and park a car, but nothing about stopping distance, skid control, following distance, etc.. Each parent needs to be tough about this and not just give in to their child's quest for freedom. Um, I learned about all these things in drivers training. Has the curriculum been significantly relaxed in the last 20 years? Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] 126 pre chambers
Bent rods, sadly. You probably didn't do anything by washing it if it was already using oil. The pistons will go crooked in the bores when the rods bend, and very shortly the cylinders are oval instead of round, at which point they both loose compression and start to clank horribly. Mine, at last check, has no blowby at all at idle (263,000 miles this week), but has had synthetic oil for many, many miles. I personally believe it's the smuck in the intake that bends the rods -- globs of oily soot that get sucked into the combustion chambers and bend the rods from zero clearance for a couple times around. The EGR valve doesn't help any. Peter
Re: [MBZ] German speed limits
Ahh so they have imposed speed limits? I knew that there are speed limits which are regulated according to traffic conditions. I was there in 97 and did round about 200 in a friends Beemer and did not see any speed restrictions. I also saw a TV program in which some person was doing 300 in a turbo buzz box, to him it seemed quite routine. As a side note, they have now imposed speed limits in the northern territory. Although when it was an open speed limit they could still charge you for dangerous driving. It was a tad crazy up there, open speed limit on a standard single lane highway with livestock, native animals and Aboriginals on the road, not to mention three trailer road trains doing 80kmh. That and they like a drink up there as well. Now the maximum is 140 compared to 110 in South Australia. http://driving.drive-alive.co.uk/driving-in-germany.htm http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-slmatr.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn#Speed_limits - Original Message - From: Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] German speed limits When and where can you go 300 kmh? The only true no speedlimit I have seen was in Italy on some of the toll Autostradas some 10 years ago.
Re: [MBZ] what are your odds?
I suspect that the main thing the truck driver did wrong was to drive much too fast for the road conditions. If he had been going much slower, he might have slid and gone off the road but hopefully would not have crossed the median into oncoming traffic. One ought not to be going 65 mph just because the sign says that is the limit. People today just seem to be in such a hurry that they are prepared to risk their own lives and that of others on the road without giving it a second thought. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Werner Fehlauer Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] what are your odds? There will always be some risk in any activity, driving, flying, or just sitting at home. But the danger on our highways could really be reduced substantially IF we required drivers to actually LEARN how to drive, and not issue licenses out of cracker jack boxes. It takes about 2 years in Europe to get a driver's license, and you can lose it for a long time and pay heavy fines if you are caught doing something stupid. Here in the USA, in some states we have 16 and 17 year olds (given BMWs and Caddy SUVs by indulgent parents) on the road legally after passing a very minimal written test, and they may or may not even have to pass a driving test. And that test is usually more about parking than knowing how to safely drive at legal speeds. One has to wonder if the parents realize that they are seriously jeopardizing their children's lives by turning them loose without proper training and in too much of a car? That spinning 3/4 ton truck was probably either driven carelessly or by a driver that was never taught how to keep from losing it. Its wrong to pre-judge without knowing the facts, but IMO, 9 times out of 10, the driver in the skid did something wrong. Werner - Original Message - From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:09 PM Subject: [MBZ] what are your odds? A bit of a gruesome subject but on my mind these past few days. My next door neighbors' daughter-in-law was killed last Friday morning on her way to work. She was driving a Ford Escort and was hit by an F250 4X4 that lost it and spun accross the median and right into the driver's side of her car. A fraction of a second either way and the truck should have passed in front of her or behind her. I have to wonder if she had been driving a more robust vehicle, if she might have had a better chance. Can't help but think of that little video of the old Mercedes being crash tested. Maybe it was just her time and it wouldn't have mattered what she was driving? A bit of a sad thing for everyone though. She was 34 and she and her husband have a toddler who is not yet 3. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 Timing chain GEARS replacement
The M102 did come with a twin cam when modified with a Cosworth head but standard is single. However due to design the camshaft 'vibrates' more than in other Merc motors, as an example the M103 does not eat timing chains as much due to being more 'balanced'. - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 Timing chain GEARS replacement The M102 does require chain replacement on a more regular basis. Is that a twin-cam? I'd expect them to be more hard on chains as well. I'm guessing you can pretty much look at the chain path and figure how long one of MB's chains will last. (Ignoring defective designs like the single-row 3.8 and defective materials like those bad chains in the 90's.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Hans - some of what you're reporting can be a bad/broken vacuum pump. It might be a good idea to remove it and check it over. It is driven off the front of the IP, at half the crankshaft speed. It can make a lot of knocking sounds when internally broken! Werner - Original Message - From: Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers) One other observation: the frequency of the knock is as close as I can tell 1/2 the rpm i.e. the result of the powersroke of one of the cylinders. On 3/14/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? On 3/14/07, Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two W126s with OM617s that my wife is after me to get rid of. I am located in Raleigh NC. Just in case you need an engine. One of the cars is a 1985 300SD with around 300k miles, runs and drives but needs front end rebuilt (tie rods etc). Also the body is a bit rough as it does have 300k miles. The other one is a 1984 500SEL which I put a OM617 in, the engine runs great, but the body is rusted. The engine came from a 1982 300D that was in worse shape. I have been meaning to get some pictures of the two beasts, will let you guys know when I get some up. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 pre chambers Worst case it ingested water and it's toast (bent rods), but in that case the response would have been pretty fast and probably wouldn't have started. Lots of blue smoke out the back before it died? Don't know -- time to pull the injectors and do a compression test. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Hmm, why did I think this was a 603? Pull the injectors and make sure the ball pins are all in place -- if one broke, it makes horrible noises and diesel smoke. Wandering oil pressure can indeed be bad main bearings, but they don't go that fast and make a deep knocking noise way down in the innards, quite muffled. Remember that you have a chain driven oil pump, and if the tensioner spring is broken, the chain slaps. However, excessive blowby means the rings are almost certainly gone. Peter
Re: [MBZ] 87 Timing chain GEARS replacement
Yeah, but the M103 goes through chains pretty fast -- single row chain. They also eat camshafts. Peter
Re: [MBZ] '08 C-Class
From the pictures I have seen it does look a bit bland, however the proof is in the pudding and I shall have a good look at one in the flesh when I get the chance. Not that I will be thinking about buying one for at least 20 years. Far as the plastic goes, superglue is your friend and I use it extensively to keep the 201 from falling apart. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] '08 C-Class Looks like yet another plastic car from china Thank you. I have won the bet I made with myself, thanks to your oh-so-predictable respone. RLE ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Sounds like a spun bearing on #1 rod. Hope for your sake I am wrong. Does it overheat? When that happened on my OM621, 4 cyl, it also overheated. It is a harsh metal on metal knock. #1 always fails first unless there is damage caused by an injector or valve etc. At 06:00 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: One other observation: the frequency of the knock is as close as I can tell 1/2 the rpm i.e. the result of the powersroke of one of the cylinders. On 3/14/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? On 3/14/07, Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two W126s with OM617s that my wife is after me to get rid of. I am located in Raleigh NC. Just in case you need an engine. One of the cars is a 1985 300SD with around 300k miles, runs and drives but needs front end rebuilt (tie rods etc). Also the body is a bit rough as it does have 300k miles. The other one is a 1984 500SEL which I put a OM617 in, the engine runs great, but the body is rusted. The engine came from a 1982 300D that was in worse shape. I have been meaning to get some pictures of the two beasts, will let you guys know when I get some up. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 pre chambers Worst case it ingested water and it's toast (bent rods), but in that case the response would have been pretty fast and probably wouldn't have started. Lots of blue smoke out the back before it died? Don't know -- time to pull the injectors and do a compression test. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. When I took it, they made us do some stuff, (and a LOT more than what is currently allowed) but pretty much knew more than what we were taught , just from driving tractors. And while you are at it, home school your kids or at least make them learn history and critical thinking outside of the PC pubic schools. They need to learn to know what is propaganda or else they will be sheeple, to be led around by the dictator du jour. At 06:02 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My comment: Why is there no outcry to correct this slaughter. Driving schools, in or out of public schools, turn out uneducated and untrained drivers who basically know how to drive around the block and park a car, but nothing about stopping distance, skid control, following distance, etc.. Each parent needs to be tough about this and not just give in to their child's quest for freedom. Um, I learned about all these things in drivers training. Has the curriculum been significantly relaxed in the last 20 years? Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
The knock is very loud, more like a hammer blow hitting the block. Blow-by is visible with the aircleaner open. Exhaust smoke is blue. The contradicting stuff is: a bad bearing would hammer, but not cause blue smoke, a bad injector would quiet when the line is lossened, a broken vacuum pump would not produce vacuum. What would a bent rod do? This is a OM 617. They do not bend. On 3/14/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, why did I think this was a 603? Pull the injectors and make sure the ball pins are all in place -- if one broke, it makes horrible noises and diesel smoke. Wandering oil pressure can indeed be bad main bearings, but they don't go that fast and make a deep knocking noise way down in the innards, quite muffled. Remember that you have a chain driven oil pump, and if the tensioner spring is broken, the chain slaps. However, excessive blowby means the rings are almost certainly gone. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] what are your odds?
With sand there are two approaches, go fast or go slow with less pressure in the tyres. The fast approach should only be used by people who know what they are doing, flipping a car in sand is ooh so easy. - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] what are your odds? I belive you, people hit sand and get stupid fast... Apparently you only go sensible places. I've been lots of places a 2wd would never get to... Although with a differntial locker a 2wd will go lots of places an unlocked 4wd will not. Thats part of my plan when I build a Jeep station wagon. 4bt under the hood, airlockers in the diffs, 31 tires so it doesn't look jacked and goofy. -Curt
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
I like to think it is a rodbearing myself. It does not overheat. The knock is louder near # 2 at the head and as I said loudest at the lower front. My good friend and Indy has some reservations about the balancer. What happens when it lets go? On 3/14/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a spun bearing on #1 rod. Hope for your sake I am wrong. Does it overheat? When that happened on my OM621, 4 cyl, it also overheated. It is a harsh metal on metal knock. #1 always fails first unless there is damage caused by an injector or valve etc. At 06:00 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: One other observation: the frequency of the knock is as close as I can tell 1/2 the rpm i.e. the result of the powersroke of one of the cylinders. On 3/14/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? On 3/14/07, Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two W126s with OM617s that my wife is after me to get rid of. I am located in Raleigh NC. Just in case you need an engine. One of the cars is a 1985 300SD with around 300k miles, runs and drives but needs front end rebuilt (tie rods etc). Also the body is a bit rough as it does have 300k miles. The other one is a 1984 500SEL which I put a OM617 in, the engine runs great, but the body is rusted. The engine came from a 1982 300D that was in worse shape. I have been meaning to get some pictures of the two beasts, will let you guys know when I get some up. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 pre chambers Worst case it ingested water and it's toast (bent rods), but in that case the response would have been pretty fast and probably wouldn't have started. Lots of blue smoke out the back before it died? Don't know -- time to pull the injectors and do a compression test. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] what are your odds?
My thoughts are that DE should be started as early as possible, work up from pedestrian safety to bicycle safety to automotive safety. Also professional driver training should be standard with a minimum criteria including highway driving and dirt road driving. This coupled with a school based theoretical program which highlights why there is a need to be careful behind the wheel and the importance of vehicle maintenance. A fostering of positive peer group pressure is also needed, with a slogan like Only losers speed or If you love your friends, don't kill them. It is also important than any sort of TV ad campaign has the input of the target audience so the message gets across. Another thing that must be drilled into youngsters is that operating a vehicle on public roads is a privilege and not a right. Another problem that I can see is that the time that young people learn to drive is also the time they learn to drink alcohol, well it is over here where the legal drinking age is 18 and the age at which you can get your license to drive solo is 17. That is why I feel that the driving age should be lowered, provided a top class DE program is initiated. Another possibility is to use simulators to show what can happen on the road, especially in unfamiliar territory, these simulators may also be used to judge the competency of learner drivers. - Original Message - From: Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] what are your odds? Well, I obviously already sent it to the MBZ list Mea culpa! So, opinions solicited from all about how to improve driver education! Be careful, Chuck Phoenix AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Busted piston would cause a knock like a bad rod, but with lots of oil smoke. Please, do as someone suggested and REMOVE the vacuum pump first.. If the knock is still there, then you can certainly rule out the vac pump. At 06:29 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: The knock is very loud, more like a hammer blow hitting the block. Blow-by is visible with the aircleaner open. Exhaust smoke is blue. The contradicting stuff is: a bad bearing would hammer, but not cause blue smoke, a bad injector would quiet when the line is lossened, a broken vacuum pump would not produce vacuum. What would a bent rod do? This is a OM 617. They do not bend. On 3/14/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm, why did I think this was a 603? Pull the injectors and make sure the ball pins are all in place -- if one broke, it makes horrible noises and diesel smoke. Wandering oil pressure can indeed be bad main bearings, but they don't go that fast and make a deep knocking noise way down in the innards, quite muffled. Remember that you have a chain driven oil pump, and if the tensioner spring is broken, the chain slaps. However, excessive blowby means the rings are almost certainly gone. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Actually, that is a good suggestion. Check the balancer/pulley assembly and make sure the allen bolts are tight and the big bolts are tight. If it is loose, you should be able to see it wobble with the engine running. I had the allen bolts shear on a OM 616, but I was not driving it at the time. I think it made quite a racket. Best to eliminate the external stuff before calling it an internal problem. Does your engine have the small oil sump pan? If so, after you have eliminated the external things as the cause, drain the oil and pull the small pan and grab the #1 rod big end and shake it. if it moves noticeably, it is toasted. At 06:36 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: I like to think it is a rodbearing myself. It does not overheat. The knock is louder near # 2 at the head and as I said loudest at the lower front. My good friend and Indy has some reservations about the balancer. What happens when it lets go? On 3/14/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a spun bearing on #1 rod. Hope for your sake I am wrong. Does it overheat? When that happened on my OM621, 4 cyl, it also overheated. It is a harsh metal on metal knock. #1 always fails first unless there is damage caused by an injector or valve etc. At 06:00 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: One other observation: the frequency of the knock is as close as I can tell 1/2 the rpm i.e. the result of the powersroke of one of the cylinders. On 3/14/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? On 3/14/07, Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have two W126s with OM617s that my wife is after me to get rid of. I am located in Raleigh NC. Just in case you need an engine. One of the cars is a 1985 300SD with around 300k miles, runs and drives but needs front end rebuilt (tie rods etc). Also the body is a bit rough as it does have 300k miles. The other one is a 1984 500SEL which I put a OM617 in, the engine runs great, but the body is rusted. The engine came from a 1982 300D that was in worse shape. I have been meaning to get some pictures of the two beasts, will let you guys know when I get some up. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 pre chambers Worst case it ingested water and it's toast (bent rods), but in that case the response would have been pretty fast and probably wouldn't have started. Lots of blue smoke out the back before it died? Don't know -- time to pull the injectors and do a compression test. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Amtrak
yea, thanks alot. Gary Hurst wrote: you enjoyed marta, no? On 3/13/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MARTA, dont ask what it means. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] what are your odds?
I get around great in my pickup truck. Alot of it has to do with who is driving I suppose, if you do not know how to drive a truck on slick roads, it will not do very good. Curt Raymond wrote: In any kind of bad weather a pickup truck is about the WORST vehicle to have. The pickups of today are especially bad. Big engines, light rear ends and bad gas mileage. But wait you say, how could bad gas mileage make pickup trucks more dangerous? I know this one because I've been there. Bad gas mileage gets worse in four wheel drive so some pickup truck drivers will try to get away without being in four wheel drive in conditions where they really should be using it. A pickup truck in slippery conditions in 2wd is downright dangerous, especially an automatic transmission truck, especially an overpowered automatic transmissioned truck (which is like 90% of pickups being made today). Don't get me wrong I love having a v8 in my Dodge Dakota but having taken on a guardrail while traveling sideways at 60mph up Rt 95 at the tail end of a snowstorm I've learned to be vary wary... We were going up a fairly small hill, anybody who's driven 95 in southern Maine knows its made up of mostly gently rolling hills. The snow had quit an hour or so before and the roads were mostly clear so I'd shifted into 2wd to save some gas. I was young and dumb. I was going a bit faster than was prudent (young and dumb) even though the back end of the truck had kicked out a bit a couple times before. So finally the back end kicked out so bad I couldn't get it back. The big problem was that I was used to driving a manual transmission which doesn't shift by itself. On those hills the auto would shift and the increase torque would send us skittering. I've since learned to manually take it out of overdrive in those conditions. Oh and I drive slower now too and gas mileage be dammed I keep it in 4wd. Anyway my story ends pretty well, we slid down the crown of the road into the guardrail which was fortunately covered in snow. Bounced off, slid 180 degrees and came to a stop without getting hit by traffic. The bumper was dented up and some plastic trim damaged but still intact. I've left it that way as a reminder... Note that at this point I'd been driving for 6 years and had logged probably 90,000 miles, much of it in the snow. The problem was that I was inexperienced with that vehicle and fueled with a bit of remaining young man testosterone invincibility... I'd bought the Dakota myself with my own money... -Curt -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheapery
I will work as far as I know, but I know the early 114/115 has different hood and fenders than the later 74 and on version. Jim Cathey wrote: So, nobody knows if a '70 114 hood will go on a '72 115? Hey, there's $23 at stake here! (And a big PITA.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carfax request please
Report Run Date: 03/14/2007 Vehicle Description: WBAHE6328RGF29561 TitleCheck: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Problem Check: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Odometer Check: Record(s) Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Information: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Full History: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History VIN: WBAHE6328RGF29561 Year: 1994 Make: BMW Model: 5-Series 540i Style/Body: Sedan 4D Engine: 4.0L V8 EFI Country of Assembly: Germany Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck's database for this 1994 BMW 5-Series 540i (WBAHE6328RGF29561) show no significant Title events. When found, events often indicate past automotive damage or warnings associated with the vehicle title. Problems Checked Results Found AbandonedNo Abandoned Record Reported to AutoCheck DamagedNo Damaged Record Reported to AutoCheck Fire DamageNo Fire Damage Record Reported to AutoCheck Grey MarketNo Grey Market Record Reported to AutoCheck Hail DamageNo Hail Damage Record Reported to AutoCheck Insurance LossNo Insurance Loss Record Reported to AutoCheck JunkNo Junk Record Reported to AutoCheck Rebuilt/RebuildableNo Rebuilt/Rebuildable Record Reported to AutoCheck SalvageNo Salvage Record Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck's database for this 1994 BMW 5-Series 540i (WBAHE6328RGF29561) shows no historical events that indicate a significant automotive problem. These problems can indicate previous car damage, theft, or other significant problem. Problems Checked Results Found NHTSA Crash Test VehicleNo NHTSA Crash Test Record Reported to AutoCheck Frame DamageNo Frame Damage Record Reported to AutoCheck Major Damage IncidentNo Major Damage Record Reported to AutoCheck Manufacturer Buyback/LemonNo Manufacturer Buyback/Lemon Record Reported to AutoCheck Odometer ProblemNo Odometer Problem Record Reported to AutoCheck RecycledNo Recycled Record Reported to AutoCheck Salvage AuctionNo Salvage Auction Record Reported to AutoCheck Water DamageNo Water Damage Record Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History Your Vehicle Checks Out! For this 1994 BMW 5-Series 540i (WBAHE6328RGF29561) no indication of an odometer rollback or tampering was found. We calculate odometer rollbacks by using AutoCheck business rules to determine reported odometer readings are less than a previously reported value. Other odometer events can report events of tampering, or possible odometer breakage. AutoCheck's business rules have been created and refined to help identify potential rollbacks from the reported odometer readings. Not all odometer readings are used to determine rollbacks. Report Date: 03/14/2007 Date Reported Odometer Reading 01/31/1994 136 02/01/2007 234,589 Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck shows a clean record for this 1994 BMW 5-Series 540i (WBAHE6328RGF29561). For some cars, past vehicle information may give indication of excessive wear and tear, such as police cars or taxi use. Problems Checked Results Found Accident DataNo Accidents Reported Through State Agencies Or Independent Sources Corrected TitleNo Corrected Title Record Reported to AutoCheck Driver EducationNo Driver Education Record Reported to AutoCheck Duplicate TitleNo Duplicate Title Record Reported to AutoCheck Emission/Safety InspectionNo Emission/Safety Inspection Record Reported to AutoCheck Fire Damage IncidentNo Fire Damage Incident Record Reported to AutoCheck LeaseNo Lease Record Reported to AutoCheck LienNo Lien Record Reported to AutoCheck Livery UseNo Livery Use Record Reported to AutoCheck Government UseNo Government Use Record Reported to AutoCheck Police UseNo Police Use Record Reported to AutoCheck FleetNo Fleet Record Reported to AutoCheck Fleet and/or RentalNo Fleet and/or Rental Record Reported to AutoCheck RentalNo Rental Record Reported to AutoCheck Fleet and/or LeaseNo Fleet and/or Lease Record Reported to AutoCheck RepossessedNo Repossessed Record Reported to AutoCheck Storm Area Registration/TitleNo Storm Area Registration/Title Indicated Taxi UseNo Taxi Use Record Reported to AutoCheck TheftNo Theft Record Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Description | TitleCheck | ProblemCheck | OdometerCheck | Vehicle Information | Full History Below are the historical events for this vehicle listed in chronological order. Any
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. Hans Neureiter wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
How does your knocking/clanking/tapping sound in relation to this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4608337093365325271hl=en From some of the posts helping you out, I have gathered that I have the symptoms of a bad bearing (i'm guessing rod, not crank?). Nevermind, just read Kaleb's post about the nicked crank bearing... I've lost oil pressure on the interstate (not completely it was waving from 0-45). John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Depends on how bad the scoring is on the crank. Bet that's not a fun job. A bad rod bearing will likely make a hole in the block when it finally breaks the rod before it could oval a cylinder, if it even could do that. Mike - Original Message - From: John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers) Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carfax request please
Thanks Kaleb! Nice clean one, just what I wanted to see. On 3/14/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Report Run Date: 03/14/2007 Vehicle Description: WBAHE6328RGF29561 TitleCheck: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Problem Check: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Odometer Check: Record(s) Reported to AutoCheck Vehicle Information: No Record Reported to AutoCheck Full History: No Record Reported to AutoCheck
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
I had a few like that, still have an engine with this problem sitting in my garage, and I was just going to try replacing the rod bearing and see what happens. John Robbins wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Kaleb is on to something. As I stated earlier, it did get very low on oil (4 quarts). I guess the next thing to do is pull the oil pump pan and hope to see # 1 and 2 rods. I figured a basic rebuild (valves/guides, timing gears and chain, main and rod bearings, piston rings, gaskets and neccessary prechamber/injector resealing) runs ~ $ 800 in parts. If there is a bad piston or rod, that is costly. What is a lively, low milage (150k) OM 617.95x worth? Kaleb, do you have one? On 3/14/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. Hans Neureiter wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Wait.. rod bearing or crank bearing gets knicked? Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: I had a few like that, still have an engine with this problem sitting in my garage, and I was just going to try replacing the rod bearing and see what happens. John Robbins wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 Timing chain GEARS replacement
That's what I thought too, due to the chain having to drive 2 extra cylinders but others have said that the 103 is better on chains. - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 Timing chain GEARS replacement Yeah, but the M103 goes through chains pretty fast -- single row chain. They also eat camshafts. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Lot harder than that. On 3/14/07, John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How does your knocking/clanking/tapping sound in relation to this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4608337093365325271hl=en From some of the posts helping you out, I have gathered that I have the symptoms of a bad bearing (i'm guessing rod, not crank?). Nevermind, just read Kaleb's post about the nicked crank bearing... I've lost oil pressure on the interstate (not completely it was waving from 0-45). John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
You can get 0.25 mm oversize bearings, both mains and rods. On 3/14/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a few like that, still have an engine with this problem sitting in my garage, and I was just going to try replacing the rod bearing and see what happens. John Robbins wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
[MBZ] '85 Euro W124 300D w/Manual Tranny
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250093496406 85 was the first year for the W124, but in Europe instead of the US. Think it should be pretty easy to say this one really is a euro ;) And there are all the other usually euro goodies as well (cloth seats, manual windows, manual climate control, etc). Looks super clean and well cared for!! John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] September delivery
Is that the new Toyokiayndai?
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Should have put a link to this in the first email... you can hear it real well in this vid too (it sounds harder to me anyway). Also keep in mind how far away I am at the beginning of the vid. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8331401484715958966hl=en This one is a different car, and the engine was basically screwed over at this point. The clank (not why it was dead surprisingly) was like that for tens of thousands of miles. It wasn't injectors. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6889328452120195166hl=en Hans Neureiter wrote: Lot harder than that. On 3/14/07, John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How does your knocking/clanking/tapping sound in relation to this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4608337093365325271hl=en From some of the posts helping you out, I have gathered that I have the symptoms of a bad bearing (i'm guessing rod, not crank?). Nevermind, just read Kaleb's post about the nicked crank bearing... I've lost oil pressure on the interstate (not completely it was waving from 0-45). John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. Hm. My training was from a private driving school, not the public school program. In fact the public schools do not offer driver training in my community, which is why a private school or parental instruction are the only options. Insurance offers a discount for passing the school program, but none for parental instruction. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] pictures of Iowa snow storm
Just for the record, I live in Jefferson. That that Jefferson to Boone in four hours pic -- it is a drive of only 30 miles. On 3/14/07, LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.iowadot.org/2007_blizzard.html This morning, only ten days later, I was able to ride the motorcycle to work on dry roads. -- I'm a man but I can change if I have to ... I guess. -- I'm a man but I can change if I have to ... I guess.
[MBZ] OT Jeep Cocktail Stirrer
Hi, All. Guess what I was doing today? What Vanes? I don' need no vanes on my water pump! Help! Green slime ate my water pump! Neighbors '98 Jeep Cherokee 2.5L 4cyl. Overheats, (say it ain't so!). Chrystly had this problem on slant sixes in the late sixties, probably laid off all the high priced experienced engineers in favor of the (cheaper) latest E-school grads. All of his (owner) research on the web turned up nada and the local radiator shop was puzzled too. They had one just like it in for overheat service.Larry (Jeep owner) called them and was told that they had just found that it was the water pump. Gimmee my Benz! Nothing else will do! Fred Moir Lynn MA Dis, Dat, And D'udda, Diesels all. - Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0877.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 958653 bytes Desc: 3323191517-IMG_0877.JPG Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20070314/e705d615/attachment.jpe
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
I do have some engines, but none that are pulled and ready to go. Hans Neureiter wrote: Kaleb is on to something. As I stated earlier, it did get very low on oil (4 quarts). I guess the next thing to do is pull the oil pump pan and hope to see # 1 and 2 rods. I figured a basic rebuild (valves/guides, timing gears and chain, main and rod bearings, piston rings, gaskets and neccessary prechamber/injector resealing) runs ~ $ 800 in parts. If there is a bad piston or rod, that is costly. What is a lively, low milage (150k) OM 617.95x worth? Kaleb, do you have one? On 3/14/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. Hans Neureiter wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
rod bearing. John Robbins wrote: Wait.. rod bearing or crank bearing gets knicked? Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: I had a few like that, still have an engine with this problem sitting in my garage, and I was just going to try replacing the rod bearing and see what happens. John Robbins wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
Parents are probably the worst people to train their kids to drive, for one thing they have probably picked up a load of bad habits over the years and another problem is subconcious overlooking of mistakes. I guess the question is would people be happy to fly in a plane piloted by someone who was trained by their Mum/Dad/Uncle/etc vs a professional piloting instructor? - Original Message - From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. Hm. My training was from a private driving school, not the public school program. In fact the public schools do not offer driver training in my community, which is why a private school or parental instruction are the only options. Insurance offers a discount for passing the school program, but none for parental instruction. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
Allan, Just curious.. What is your age? Way back in the dark ages my father taught me to drive. But, we're talking pre-hot rod days... I've since taken and instructed quite a few Defensive Driving classes. It can save a life to know your car's limits and your limits! Be careful out there! Chuck Phoenix, AZ On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:58 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. Hm. My training was from a private driving school, not the public school program. In fact the public schools do not offer driver training in my community, which is why a private school or parental instruction are the only options. Insurance offers a discount for passing the school program, but none for parental instruction. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
If it is knocking that bad, the crank journal and the bearing and possibly the rod are hosed. If that is the case, you are in for a crank, a rod and bearings at the minimum. When that happened on my 200D, a factory short block was cheaper than the parts and machining. That is why I have a big crate with a big ol star on it as a storage chest in my house. In fact, the only moving parts I reused from that rebuilt engine were 6 of the valves. Like I said, I hope it is not a bad bearing. Not fun. At 10:02 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: rod bearing. John Robbins wrote: Wait.. rod bearing or crank bearing gets knicked? Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: I had a few like that, still have an engine with this problem sitting in my garage, and I was just going to try replacing the rod bearing and see what happens. John Robbins wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. So is it new crank time or can we just replace the bearing? I imagine a bad rod bearing would cause the cylinder to oval, but will a bad crank bearing do that? John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
Instruction from a private standalone school is fine, but a private company contracted to a PUBLIC school can't teach anything. They have to abide by the public school policies/lawyers. Public school DT in the US is worthless, except to get that insurance discount. As bad as parents are, i'd wager all the parents on this list will make better driving instructors than what is at the local public indoctrination center, oops! I mean school. At 09:08 PM 3/14/2007, you wrote: Parents are probably the worst people to train their kids to drive, for one thing they have probably picked up a load of bad habits over the years and another problem is subconcious overlooking of mistakes. I guess the question is would people be happy to fly in a plane piloted by someone who was trained by their Mum/Dad/Uncle/etc vs a professional piloting instructor? - Original Message - From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. Hm. My training was from a private driving school, not the public school program. In fact the public schools do not offer driver training in my community, which is why a private school or parental instruction are the only options. Insurance offers a discount for passing the school program, but none for parental instruction. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
Yeah I remeber driver ed in school, a car full of kids and a teacher roped in to take us out. Can't remeber learning anything there, however a few one on one lessons with a pro driving instructor taught me a lot, that and riding a motorcycle for a few years. Then again I got my heavy vehicle license by taking the local cop for a spin in an empty truck. Anyway I am planning on getting my kids proper driver education when the time comes, even though my ego and driving record tell me I am a pretty good vehicle operator. - Original Message - From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed Instruction from a private standalone school is fine, but a private company contracted to a PUBLIC school can't teach anything. They have to abide by the public school policies/lawyers. Public school DT in the US is worthless, except to get that insurance discount. As bad as parents are, i'd wager all the parents on this list will make better driving instructors than what is at the local public indoctrination center, oops! I mean school.
Re: [MBZ] Frankenheapery
The answer is NO, it will not. Let me rephrase that, the grille will not fit it. The hood will mount. It will require new washer nozzles and connectors The 114 hood comes with! Go for it! I suspect it will fit. I have not seen the front end of a 114 looking any larger than the 115s at the PnP. Such was what my 'calibrated eyeball' said. So I bought it today, and brought it home in the trunk of the 115. (Along with the rear door and trunk weatherstripping. $31 for all.) Turns out a 114 hood can _almost_ fit in a 115's trunk, if the hood safety catch is removed and you don't care about scratching. (It couldn't go through the rear door into the back seat.) The thing needed to go in an additional inch to let the trunk close. So I tied it down with a bungee instead. When I got home I put the hood away with the other parts. The donor car has definitely been repainted, but in the same color. Looking at the fenders, their condition wasn't sufficiently good to make them worth the removal. They're certainly better than mine, but they're not perfect: some small dents and some rust at the bottoms. So I think I'll leave them, the removal is not a trivial task. (We're talking two removals, and one reinstallation. Just not worth it.) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. I think that's OK. It's axial motion that is bad. I figured a basic rebuild ... runs ~ $ 800 in parts. So, I wonder how much a single bearing costs? If the crank rod journal (say) is not badly damaged, and they _are_ very hard, harder than Detroit iron, perhaps it would be worth doing a bit of peephole surgery through the oil pan? A used #2-4 bearing off of some other dead engine might be an interesting option too. If the crank is badly scored, or the rod is damaged, then forget it. It's the sort of thing I might try. If it's easy enough to do it's not like you're talking about any kind of serious investment, and I don't see how you're going to make anything _worse_. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Antenna semi-success
some Kroil, cleaned and reassembled everything but the antenna now does not extend or retract. I can hear a slight click sound when I actiavte the antenna switch, so power is getting there apparently and So, if it doesn't work 'at all' how did you get the antenna mast's leader back into the body? It went in once and now is stuck? It's easy enough to take out the entire antenna, or you can opt to pop the side cover off with it still in place. Then you can have a look-see at the guts. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Antenna semi-success
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:35:51 -0400 Glenn Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For anyone who may have read my previous post regarding the stuck two center sections of the antenna on my '84 300D, I had some success by squirting Kano Kroil in the antenna shaft and allowing it to sit over night upside down and, with some gentle persuasion, I was able to free the two stuck center sections. With the plastic ribbon extracted, I worked things a bit with some Kroil, cleaned and reassembled everything but the antenna now does not extend or retract. I can hear a slight click sound when I actiavte the antenna switch, so power is getting there apparently and, since the plug residing on top of the power antenna module is keyed, I didn't do something stupid an insert it incorrectly. Any clues? TIA. Did you get all the Kroil off the nylon leader? Craig
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
I taught our children to drive, and they learned a lot more than is taught in the driving schools. My son took the driving course to get the insurance premiums lower, but he didn't learn anything from them. Although he's a relatively safe and conservative driver, he did have to learn about following distance and reaction time by rear ending (lightly) a pickup with the 240D - resulting in a trip to Kaleb's, and about paying attention to driving instead of changing radio stations when hit a drainage indention in the curb, resulting in two broken 8-hole alloy rims and two ripped open tires. we're lucky in that the high schools are good, if you're in the advanced classes. The lower grades were a joke - supplemental education at home both prepared them for high school, and kept them from dropping all interest in education. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
Well, I learned to fly from my Dad. The official instructor only gave my hours, I didn't learn anything new from him. The instructor would have ground looped our plane, had Dad not saved the landing. He thought his multi-engine, instrument ratings were hot, but he was no match for conventional gear (real airplanes have tail wheels). I'll take a knowledgeable parent over a cocky 'instructor any day. On 3/14/07, Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Parents are probably the worst people to train their kids to drive, for one thing they have probably picked up a load of bad habits over the years and another problem is subconcious overlooking of mistakes. I guess the question is would people be happy to fly in a plane piloted by someone who was trained by their Mum/Dad/Uncle/etc vs a professional piloting instructor? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Urea not yet
Urea injection sounds like a potentially unpleasant procedure performed on men of a certain age who have posponed their doctor's visits far too long... On 3/14/07, Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Au contraire - the term Bluetec is indeed being used widely in Germany (and perhaps in the EU?), and they are pushing urea injection in their Actos truck line, too. You are correct that the USA Bluetec with urea injection are 2008 models, and that the current CDI M-Bs in the USA do not use urea. And outside of the USA, D-C has been selling CDI engines in almost every model except Maybach! for several years now. Werner - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Urea not yet Don - you're correct, the Bluetec M-B CDI Diesels do indeed use Urea injection to meet the Euro Bin5 standards Well, strictly speaking, urea injection won't be here until sometime in 2008. And the tradename Bluetec is not being used anywhere except north America by MB. Elsewhere the old term CDI is still on the cars. RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
Don, I agree, but in today's world the number of knowledgeable parents is diminishing and to save the kids it's important to have an alternative. And today, there ain't one If you know of parents who don't know how to train their kids to drive, volunteer to do it. You will save a life...!!! Take care, Chuck Phoenix AZ On Mar 14, 2007, at 9:14 PM, OK Don wrote: Well, I learned to fly from my Dad. The official instructor only gave my hours, I didn't learn anything new from him. The instructor would have ground looped our plane, had Dad not saved the landing. He thought his multi-engine, instrument ratings were hot, but he was no match for conventional gear (real airplanes have tail wheels). I'll take a knowledgeable parent over a cocky 'instructor any day. On 3/14/07, Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Parents are probably the worst people to train their kids to drive, for one thing they have probably picked up a load of bad habits over the years and another problem is subconcious overlooking of mistakes. I guess the question is would people be happy to fly in a plane piloted by someone who was trained by their Mum/Dad/Uncle/etc vs a professional piloting instructor? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
I have no problem with parents teaching the children to drive. If the standards for getting a liscense were as high as they should be there would be very few unqualified teachers. Mike - Original Message - From: Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed Parents are probably the worst people to train their kids to drive, for one thing they have probably picked up a load of bad habits over the years and another problem is subconcious overlooking of mistakes. I guess the question is would people be happy to fly in a plane piloted by someone who was trained by their Mum/Dad/Uncle/etc vs a professional piloting instructor? - Original Message - From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YES! Chuck is right. DT is worthless! PLEASE instruct your kids how to drive, independently of the PC garbage from the schools. Hm. My training was from a private driving school, not the public school program. In fact the public schools do not offer driver training in my community, which is why a private school or parental instruction are the only options. Insurance offers a discount for passing the school program, but none for parental instruction. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
I think all kids should learn to drive in a muddy field with a car that has too much power. When ya can hold 'er at 70MPH all the way around the field, sideways, you have learned how to control the car in all sorts of skids and slides. That's how I learned. Mike - Original Message - From: Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed Yeah I remeber driver ed in school, a car full of kids and a teacher roped in to take us out. Can't remeber learning anything there, however a few one on one lessons with a pro driving instructor taught me a lot, that and riding a motorcycle for a few years. Then again I got my heavy vehicle license by taking the local cop for a spin in an empty truck. Anyway I am planning on getting my kids proper driver education when the time comes, even though my ego and driving record tell me I am a pretty good vehicle operator. - Original Message - From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed Instruction from a private standalone school is fine, but a private company contracted to a PUBLIC school can't teach anything. They have to abide by the public school policies/lawyers. Public school DT in the US is worthless, except to get that insurance discount. As bad as parents are, i'd wager all the parents on this list will make better driving instructors than what is at the local public indoctrination center, oops! I mean school. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Hello Hans. This is going to be one of those cases of while I'm in there so you do things that make sense when spending the money to fix the primary problem. You'll need to check the oil pump - replace as needed, timing chain and guides, tc tensioner, etc, Basically you should decide how long you want to keep that car and wheter to make it close to what MB produced. You should find a good machine shop who hopefully has some experience on MB diesels. He;'s clean the block (if there's damage you want all broken pieces found removed) , weigh the rods, replace rod small end bushings, check the main bore alignment, check the crank, balance the crank other rotating components, etc, etc, But if you can do a lot of the work it'll cut costs and you'll *know* how it went together. I went thru my 240D back in 1995 and spend $1800 in parts and machine shop work. My engine was like new when done. I replaced the pistons, cylinder liners, rings, water oil pump, TC and components, etc. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers) Kaleb is on to something. As I stated earlier, it did get very low on oil (4 quarts). I guess the next thing to do is pull the oil pump pan and hope to see # 1 and 2 rods. I figured a basic rebuild (valves/guides, timing gears and chain, main and rod bearings, piston rings, gaskets and neccessary prechamber/injector resealing) runs ~ $ 800 in parts. If there is a bad piston or rod, that is costly. What is a lively, low milage (150k) OM 617.95x worth? Kaleb, do you have one? On 3/14/07, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happened is that it got a little low on oil and nicked the #1 crank bearing etc. When they are run low but not too low to flat out lock it up it always nicks #1 and you get a bad knock, or rather, mild to really bad depending on how low it went. Hans Neureiter wrote: Today I went to do some more investigating: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. The motor started right up. A huge, scary clunk at first that turned into a steady, loud hammering. Oil pressure first pegged and went to 2.5 bar at a steady 800 RPM idle. When operating temp reached 85 C (after ~ 5 min.) pressure dropped to slightly above 1 with a few short excursions to below 1 bar. Loosening the injector lines resulted in a noticeable reduction of knock intensity but was equal for each cylinder. Using a stethoscope, the highest intensity of the knock is apparent near the front crank seal and at the Vac.pump housing. Lots of blue smoke at first that never really cleared. Motor ran for at least 20 minutes until turned off. Questions: Can injectors/prechambers be ruled out as major cause? Does oil pressure behavior indicate crank bearing failure? Does most noise coming from front crank seal indicate balancer failure? Do I have a conglomeration of failing parts (Turbo seal = blue smoke, etc.) My conclusion so far: 90% bottom end problem. But what? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Bearings are cheap. $ 75 for a rod set, $ 55 for an oversize (0.25mm) set. Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. The thing becomes an issue when addressing the blow-by; rings, valve guides, injectors, and on. On 3/14/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. I think that's OK. It's axial motion that is bad. I figured a basic rebuild ... runs ~ $ 800 in parts. So, I wonder how much a single bearing costs? If the crank rod journal (say) is not badly damaged, and they _are_ very hard, harder than Detroit iron, perhaps it would be worth doing a bit of peephole surgery through the oil pan? A used #2-4 bearing off of some other dead engine might be an interesting option too. If the crank is badly scored, or the rod is damaged, then forget it. It's the sort of thing I might try. If it's easy enough to do it's not like you're talking about any kind of serious investment, and I don't see how you're going to make anything _worse_. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
[MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I am kicking this around: rebuilding the sickly OM 617 at 175k miles. Taking that the rod bearing went and nothing broke, I think following work should give me an engine good for a long time to come. 1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around 2. new rings (and sleeves ?) 3. new valve guides 4. new prechamber seal rings and injector seals 5. new injector nozzles (?) 6. new timing chain and sprockets That's already $ 1,000 in parts. What else is needed? What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. On 3/15/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bearings are cheap. $ 75 for a rod set, $ 55 for an oversize (0.25mm) set. Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. The thing becomes an issue when addressing the blow-by; rings, valve guides, injectors, and on. On 3/14/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. I think that's OK. It's axial motion that is bad. I figured a basic rebuild ... runs ~ $ 800 in parts. So, I wonder how much a single bearing costs? If the crank rod journal (say) is not badly damaged, and they _are_ very hard, harder than Detroit iron, perhaps it would be worth doing a bit of peephole surgery through the oil pan? A used #2-4 bearing off of some other dead engine might be an interesting option too. If the crank is badly scored, or the rod is damaged, then forget it. It's the sort of thing I might try. If it's easy enough to do it's not like you're talking about any kind of serious investment, and I don't see how you're going to make anything _worse_. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around I don't know about the rest of your to do list, but IIRC these cranks are nitrided and don't go bad unless they are totally wiped out. You are not dealing with 'merican iron. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. If the journals are smooth and round, there's no need for a grinding. I've never heard of anybody doing this and being happy. The cranks are specially hardened, a step that seems to be skipped (or done poorly) during rebuilds. I think you need to have a peek through the bottom hole before making any decisions. It's hard to beat the $135 of a complete used engine at the U-Pull, all it takes is the patience to wait for one to come by and the speed and fortitude to beat the buzzards to it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. I forget, was the onset of blue smoke sudden? Blowby works both ways, in that if gases are leaking out then oil can be leaking in. I thought that was the operative mechanism. But I don't see a sudden ring failure causing the noises of which you speak. I think there's still a mystery here to be solved. More information is required. -- Jim
[MBZ] Antenna semi-success
Jim, I unwound the plastic drive ribbon from the main drive wheel via thumbing the rubber belt on the motor when I had the antenna drive unit open. After all was cleaned up, I reinserted the plastic drive ribbon, which is attached to the antenna mast, back past the pinch roller bearing and into the main drive and then rewound all the plastic drive ribbon all the way back into the drive housing, reassembled things and this is when it didn't work. I need to get back in there for a look see as I must've done something stupid, as the drive was working before I took things apart and mechanically, when I rewound the plastic drive ribbon back in, all seemed in order, so I'm wondering if I may have disconnected one of the small internal wires during reassembly. Craig, Yes, I did get all the Kroil off the nylon leader via Simple Green washing. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY
Re: [MBZ] Antenna semi-success
I unwound the plastic drive ribbon from the main drive wheel via thumbing the rubber belt on the motor when I had the antenna drive unit open. Ah, the hard way! For the belt-based units with the electronic circuit board, you need do no more than unhook the mast nut and then turn on the radio. It'll eject the mast all by its lonesome. Then you just turn off the radio while jamming the leader into the mechanism and it'll suck it up all on its own. The cog-based electromechanical ones are a bit trickier because they won't run as long before self-stopping. Next time! The electronic ones have a weaker motor, and rely on the stall current being benign, and a timeout circuit. The electromechanical ones are much stronger and have a cog-driven limit switch. If you got it installed 'wrong', there could be too much friction to allow any motion at all. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
That blue smoke came with the knocking. Very sudden. I have the idea that it has something to do with the leak at the prechambers and that would lead to collapsed rings at #'s 1 2. But why, at the same token, is it starting easy and idling stady, barely shaking the engine? I know, a compression test is in order and might reveal the mistery. On 3/15/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. I forget, was the onset of blue smoke sudden? Blowby works both ways, in that if gases are leaking out then oil can be leaking in. I thought that was the operative mechanism. But I don't see a sudden ring failure causing the noises of which you speak. I think there's still a mystery here to be solved. More information is required. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on driver ed
The best driving experiences I got was learnt from stealing cars when I was 14-15 and being chased by the cops. It taught me how to control a vehicle and if I lost control it keep me in good shape. Just released!! RC _ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I dealt before with nitrated cranks (Peugeot) and found that they go out of round enough to ruin a new bearing in short time. IIRC the tolerance is +/- 0.0005. On 3/15/07, Rick Knoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around I don't know about the rest of your to do list, but IIRC these cranks are nitrided and don't go bad unless they are totally wiped out. You are not dealing with 'merican iron. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
[MBZ] Compression Tester
Anybody have any recommendations on a compression tester? I hear most people using the harbor freight one, but there aren't any in my area... From a past experience I will *never* order online from HF again. Thanks!! John '79 300SD
[MBZ] Transmission Question
Hello: Well a transmission from a 89 420SEL be a bolt in replacement for a trans in a 88 560SEL. RC _ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Ditto what Jim says. If you detect that the crank is gone/scored/etc, then find another engine. The crank is treated, and the average lifetime of a ground MB crank is 10K miles. FWIW, at 400K+, my last 617 engine run low enough on oil (PO) to cause heating / destruction of the rings and galling on #'s 1 and 2 main bearing, the crank was at factory mfgr spec. Installed standard bearings and away we went. Also FWIW, forget anything but German bearings. The American replacements failed to notice a shift in the anti rotational notch on #3, making the new bearing useless. I reinstalled the old one. I purchased all rings, one piston, main and con rod bearings, all gaskets, chain, and I think the total was 500-600 bux. The piston, chain and gasket sets were the majority of that. As Jim says, more data is needed. Richard Mercedesless in NC --- Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. If the journals are smooth and round, there's no need for a grinding. I've never heard of anybody doing this and being happy. The cranks are specially hardened, a step that seems to be skipped (or done poorly) during rebuilds. I think you need to have a peek through the bottom hole before making any decisions. It's hard to beat the $135 of a complete used engine at the U-Pull, all it takes is the patience to wait for one to come by and the speed and fortitude to beat the buzzards to it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: [MBZ] Transmission Question
Will a transmission from a 89 420SEL be a bolt in replacement for a trans in a 88 560SEL. My GUESS would be yes. But there's probably somebody here who actually knows. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
What you describe is as close as it gets to what I have. Accounts for the knock and the smoke. Why did you need a new piston? Did the rings damage the grooves ? On 3/15/07, Richard Hattaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto what Jim says. If you detect that the crank is gone/scored/etc, then find another engine. The crank is treated, and the average lifetime of a ground MB crank is 10K miles. FWIW, at 400K+, my last 617 engine run low enough on oil (PO) to cause heating / destruction of the rings and galling on #'s 1 and 2 main bearing, the crank was at factory mfgr spec. Installed standard bearings and away we went. Also FWIW, forget anything but German bearings. The American replacements failed to notice a shift in the anti rotational notch on #3, making the new bearing useless. I reinstalled the old one. I purchased all rings, one piston, main and con rod bearings, all gaskets, chain, and I think the total was 500-600 bux. The piston, chain and gasket sets were the majority of that. As Jim says, more data is needed. Richard Mercedesless in NC --- Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. If the journals are smooth and round, there's no need for a grinding. I've never heard of anybody doing this and being happy. The cranks are specially hardened, a step that seems to be skipped (or done poorly) during rebuilds. I think you need to have a peek through the bottom hole before making any decisions. It's hard to beat the $135 of a complete used engine at the U-Pull, all it takes is the patience to wait for one to come by and the speed and fortitude to beat the buzzards to it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
[MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime
Why do you say liftime of a ground crank is 10K miles!. I have one that's done 50K mile in on a vehicle and 80K mile in another with no sign of problems. Engineering shops here do not seem to harden cranks after ginding here ( S. Africa ) Peter -Original Message- From: Richard Hattaway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 March 2007 05:49 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers) Ditto what Jim says. If you detect that the crank is gone/scored/etc, then find another engine. The crank is treated, and the average lifetime of a ground MB crank is 10K miles. FWIW, at 400K+, my last 617 engine run low enough on oil (PO) to cause heating / destruction of the rings and galling on #'s 1 and 2 main bearing, the crank was at factory mfgr spec. Installed standard bearings and away we went. Also FWIW, forget anything but German bearings. The American replacements failed to notice a shift in the anti rotational notch on #3, making the new bearing useless. I reinstalled the old one. I purchased all rings, one piston, main and con rod bearings, all gaskets, chain, and I think the total was 500-600 bux. The piston, chain and gasket sets were the majority of that. As Jim says, more data is needed. Richard Mercedesless in NC --- Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. If the journals are smooth and round, there's no need for a grinding. I've never heard of anybody doing this and being happy. The cranks are specially hardened, a step that seems to be skipped (or done poorly) during rebuilds. I think you need to have a peek through the bottom hole before making any decisions. It's hard to beat the $135 of a complete used engine at the U-Pull, all it takes is the patience to wait for one to come by and the speed and fortitude to beat the buzzards to it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime
Peter Merle wrote: Why do you say liftime of a ground crank is 10K miles!. I have one that's done 50K mile in on a vehicle and 80K mile in another with no sign of problems. Engineering shops here do not seem to harden cranks after ginding here ( S. Africa ) Are they turbocharged engines? I know MB did a lot of things to the turbos they didn't do to the NA models... maybe this was one of them? John
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
I have (had) a 617.951 ('82 300SD).
Depending on milage and what's involved to get it, I be interrested.
On 3/15/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the rod is knocking, you can bet the crank is toast. Look for a used
engine or at least a used short block. There is a 126 in town that was in
a fire. I think the short block from it would be ok. I can inquire about
the cost if you don't find anything closer. It was a 300SD (617)
At 09:55 AM 3/15/2007, you wrote:
Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical.
If the journals are smooth and round, there's no need for a
grinding.
I've never heard of anybody doing this and being happy. The
cranks are specially hardened, a step that seems to be skipped
(or done poorly) during rebuilds. I think you need to have a
peek through the bottom hole before making any decisions. It's
hard to beat the $135 of a complete used engine at the U-Pull,
all it takes is the patience to wait for one to come by and
the speed and fortitude to beat the buzzards to it.
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Loren Faeth
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers)
Hans, MB diesel cranks are *very* difficult to grind properly. The Nitride coating is damaged during grinding and the crank must be re-nitrided for it to last very long. Some companies advertise they can do it but be Very cautious - after they have your money it can be hard to deal with them. The options others suggests are better - a used crank or shortblock. There was a 83 300SD that ran good for $2500 in the paper recently - you'd do good buying something lke and end up with a complete car of spare parts. The 300SD is widely available - and I'm pretty sure the 300D Turbo is the same engine - between those 2 models you can get a complete car - that you can drive to test the engine - for $2k or less - buying a used short block means you must trust *someone* - and while they may give you another if that ones bad you;ll be out a lot of labor. No sense putting the money into a rebuild and taking shortcuts that will make it a short-lived project. Good luck and be patient while you gather the facts and study options - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM 617 badly sick (was 126 pre chambers) Bearings are cheap. $ 75 for a rod set, $ 55 for an oversize (0.25mm) set. Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. The thing becomes an issue when addressing the blow-by; rings, valve guides, injectors, and on. On 3/14/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. I think that's OK. It's axial motion that is bad. I figured a basic rebuild ... runs ~ $ 800 in parts. So, I wonder how much a single bearing costs? If the crank rod journal (say) is not badly damaged, and they _are_ very hard, harder than Detroit iron, perhaps it would be worth doing a bit of peephole surgery through the oil pan? A used #2-4 bearing off of some other dead engine might be an interesting option too. If the crank is badly scored, or the rod is damaged, then forget it. It's the sort of thing I might try. If it's easy enough to do it's not like you're talking about any kind of serious investment, and I don't see how you're going to make anything _worse_. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] AUDIO SYSTEMS
HI Larry; my car is a 300D 1983; the new audio, video system is like a toy or gimmick, 3.5inch screen?? HA! HA! , but still a nice unit; still haven't figured out how to set everything on it???; you are correct , lots of reading in the manual I don't have any Amplifiers added, as it is loud enough; i also have used the cassette adapter in other car to feed satellite radio, as i will have to get out instructions to program a Freq. to use it?!??!??! Steve
Re: [MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime
MB cranks since at least the 1950s have been hardened. Probably since the 30s, but I have no data or experience before the OM621 and M180 At 11:22 AM 3/15/2007, you wrote: Peter Merle wrote: Why do you say liftime of a ground crank is 10K miles!. I have one that's done 50K mile in on a vehicle and 80K mile in another with no sign of problems. Engineering shops here do not seem to harden cranks after ginding here ( S. Africa ) Are they turbocharged engines? I know MB did a lot of things to the turbos they didn't do to the NA models... maybe this was one of them? John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] Transmission Question
Yes, the vacuum modulator may be different. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Conlon Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:44 AM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Transmission Question Hello: Well a transmission from a 89 420SEL be a bolt in replacement for a trans in a 88 560SEL. RC _ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline
Re: [MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime
Reground crank life depends on the hardness of the wear surface anf the hardness of the bearings and the load placed on the engine. Tom -Original Message- From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 3/15/07 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime MB cranks since at least the 1950s have been hardened. Probably since the 30s, but I have no data or experience before the OM621 and M180 At 11:22 AM 3/15/2007, you wrote: Peter Merle wrote: Why do you say liftime of a ground crank is 10K miles!. I have one that's done 50K mile in on a vehicle and 80K mile in another with no sign of problems. Engineering shops here do not seem to harden cranks after ginding here ( S. Africa ) Are they turbocharged engines? I know MB did a lot of things to the turbos they didn't do to the NA models... maybe this was one of them? John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post
Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Allan, Just curious.. What is your age? 40 Way back in the dark ages my father taught me to drive. But, we're talking pre-hot rod days... I've since taken and instructed quite a few Defensive Driving classes. It can save a life to know your car's limits and your limits! I took a standard drivers training program when I was 16. It was thru a private program since the public schools stopped offering drivers training a year or two before that. Not sure why -- perhaps liability concerns. The classroom was where you learned about stopping distances, recovering from skids, etc. though we never actually did any skidding in the driving portion of the class. I don't know of any program that does that other than the law enforcement EVO (emergency vehicle operation) programs. It would have been possible to go over to the local stadium (big gravel lot) and get the feel for skidding, but we did not. For the actual driving we drove in town, on the highway, learned how to merge into traffic, pass, etc. We did not learn how to drive a manual transmission but my parents arranged a special extra 1:1 session with one of the instructors for that. Unfortunately like most people, I learned the hard way how wet pavement, snow, and ice affect handling, and what 4WD will and won't do for you. The *theory* was all covered in driver's ed though, and I can't imagine that it's not today. Insurance companies have statistical evidence that drivers training produce safer drivers, otherwise they would not offer discounts to drivers who pass such a program. Not to say the training couldn't be better, but it is already better than parental training *on average*. With regard to the comparisons to Europe, remember that driving is *heavily* taxed in europe, from the taxes on fuel, taxes on automobiles, cost of the license, cost of the mandatory yearly inspections, etc. Young people simply cannot, in most cases, afford a car or a license, and most families (if they have a car at all) cannot afford to buy one for their kid. By the time the kid has the income to support owning and driving a car, he is older, more mature, presumably more responsible, etc. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
[MBZ] DSE - Diesel Secret Energy
http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html This is obviously a scam. I think we have discussed this before. Has anybody tried it or know anybody who has? What does the stuff actually do/what is it? Thanks, Chris Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht! -2006 GSD, Anke (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, Sammy (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz. -1985 300SD, 220K miles, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, little blue klatter box - Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 15 22:15:26 2007 Received: from web35714.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.163.179.168]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HRyEH-000691-U9 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:15:26 + Received: (qmail 53105 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2007 22:15:17 - X-YMail-OSG: 2DkYFwgVM1nTPszlNE4mpb3vGKvL3xDga_Jvl_AqCubhSjuCMP5TkWwYN8_goGMvlfoJJ0g1kMmJ2XzTgkBKTv3GfKVC_gC1oGPkN.ZNHd0Lc55R0rUFITEIpWm7cYRVOv39qzLYpwQMgp6f5ac0V.DC Received: from [72.70.92.101] by web35714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:15:17 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Frederick Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] DSE - Diesel Secret Energy X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:15:26 - Camel urine, Peetane enhancer. Fred Moir Lynn MA Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html This is obviously a scam. I think we have discussed this before. Has anybody tried it or know anybody who has? What does the stuff actually do/what is it? Thanks, Chris - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Mar 15 22:20:07 2007 Received: from wnpgmb02-group-smtpout.mts.net ([142.161.130.102] helo=mx-mtaout02.mts.net) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HRyIp-0006Gk-CV for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:20:07 + Received: from wnpgmb01-c600f.mts.net ([172.17.170.28]) by mx-mtaout02.mts.net with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:20:00 -0500 Received: from wnpgmb09dc1-155-149.dynamic.mts.net (HELO one) ([204.112.155.149]) by wnpgmb01-c600f.mts.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 17:20:00 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AA== X-IronPort-AV: i=4.14,289,1170655200; d=scan'208; a=24908067:sNHT66556826 From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:25:20 -0600 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Opinion pls! on What are the Odds post X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:20:08 - I think that most driver's are poor drivers. We all tend to think that we
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I would plan on pistons and sleeves -- there is absolutely no chance that they are good. Crank probably only needs polishing, but if you have had oil starvation, have it magnifluxed for cracks, they CAN break (not fun). If the bearing has spun, the block is toast. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Ground Crank Lifetime
MB specifies two regrind diameters, I don't think you will grind through the nitriding. It's not a surface treatment like 'merican iron. Do note that you need about 0.001 oil clearance -- the main cause of failure on a rebuild is excessive clearance on the mains and rods. Most 'merican engines won't rotate with 0.001 oil clearance because the crank and block aren't machined to close enough tolerances. Benz (and Japanese) engines are. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Compression Tester
Next time I am there I can pick you up one and ship it to you if you want. John Robbins wrote: Anybody have any recommendations on a compression tester? I hear most people using the harbor freight one, but there aren't any in my area... From a past experience I will *never* order online from HF again. Thanks!! John '79 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Transmission Question
Yes, it will. There are very slight differences in the valve body, but it will work just fine. Roger Conlon wrote: Hello: Well a transmission from a 89 420SEL be a bolt in replacement for a trans in a 88 560SEL. RC _ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] DSE - Diesel Secret Energy
Why yes, I bought a 300SDL off the diesel secret guy, ask luther what it did to that car. Christopher McCann wrote: http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html This is obviously a scam. I think we have discussed this before. Has anybody tried it or know anybody who has? What does the stuff actually do/what is it? Thanks, Chris Christopher McCann, happy customer of austerlitzshepherds.com Ohne Zucht keine Leistung, ohne Leistung keine Zucht! -2006 GSD, Anke (Yanke von der Burg Austerlitz) -2006 GSD, Sammy (Zane von der Burg Austerlitz) Freude an der Arbeit: Hoechste Leistung - Mercedes-Benz. -1985 300SD, 220K miles, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K miles, little blue klatter box - Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by Green Rating at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Antenna success
I had to take it apart again to try to figure out why it wouldn't extend/retract after my cleaning the internal plastic drive ribbon and main drive wheels of some minor gunk. I couldn't find anything obviously wrong, as there was continuity across the red green wires attached to the little antenna drive motor. The only thing I can think of is that either 1) One of the bottom rubber stand-offs was dislodged upon my initial reinstallation creating a slight angle and more mechanical resistance than that little motor could drive, and/or 2) I first reinstalled the antenna without it being fully retracted, but I don't know why this would cause it not to work at all. The good news is that it's working now and all sections fully extend . . . viola. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Antenna drive innards 031507sm.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 186548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20070315/23835715/attachment.jpg
Re: [MBZ] DSE - Diesel Secret Energy
In diesel circles, it's a scamasaurus..an old scam. Bob R - Original Message - From: Frederick Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] DSE - Diesel Secret Energy Camel urine, Peetane enhancer. Fred Moir Lynn MA Christopher McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html This is obviously a scam. I think we have discussed this before. Has anybody tried it or know anybody who has? What does the stuff actually do/what is it? Thanks, Chris - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
