Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
It's all about temperature rise and volume Dan On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Craig wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:01:15 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot water systems ( whole house) ? The posting I made to the list on 30 Dec 2012 and the two responses it received then are still appropriate: From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:22:27 -0700 Sender: Mercedes mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.10.4; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:00:36 -0600 Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Someone mentioned tankless water heater but nobody mentioned experience/caution. Do any of you have experience with tankless electric heaters? Our old electric GE is too old to get parts so tankless Stiebel (german) seems very nice. They have been doing tankless for years. Most of the USA outfits seem to be china implants. Any information/experience to steer me away from Stiebel or toward USA tankless - thanks. We got a Seisco RA-22 electric tankless for our new laundry room. That was because we didn't have room for a tank heater and I didn't want to punch a hole through the roof for a vent stack for a gas-fired water heater. Seisco's website is at http://seisco.com/ I bought our water heater from their Internet Exclusive Distributor, http://www.tankless-water-heaters.com/ Dan's comments about low incoming water temperature are right on the mark. I purchased the next-size-larger water heater than our usage (laundry, bathroom sink and tub) would require because of low incoming water temperature. It works OK. If I had to do it again, I might get the next size up. As it is, our water heater uses two 50 A, 240 VAC breakers. I just recalled, though, that our line voltage drops significantly when the water heater comes on. That reduces the power available to heat the water. Maybe I ought to call the County Utilities and ask them to put a bigger feed to our house. I have been suscribed to Ask the Builder emails from Tim Carter for awhile. A recent one featured a commentary about tankless water heaters: - Tip of the Week - Energy Retrofits - Return on Investment Myth The most recent issue of Remodeling magazine's cover story was about retrofitting houses with energy improvements. One part of the story listed the 10 Reasons to Retrofit. It said, and I quote, Some people invest in energy retrofits because they want to help achieve energy independence or reduce greenhouse gases or reverse climate change. For everyone else here are 10 more tangible reasons. The first reason listed was: Save Money It then said, Savings on energy bills vary but are immediate and will likely grow over time as prices increase. WRONG! Stop the train! That's a very misleading statement, and I see many publications say it all the time. I hear home improvement TV hosts say it. I hear it on home improvement radio shows. It's a half truth. It's bunk. Here is what I've said for years about saving money on energy improvements: You do NOT save money on energy improvements or retrofits UNTIL SUCH TIME as you pay yourself back all the money, PLUS interest, you spent to do the improvement or retrofit. You pay yourself back with the lower utility bills. After you have paid yourself back the money you spent, THEN you finally start to save money. Does that make sense? One of the retrofits they used as an example was a tankless water heater. Do you think you'll save money with one of those bad boys? Well, go read my past column about tankless water heaters - and read the comments at the bottom of the column!!! http://www.askthebuilder.com/tankless-water-heaters/?awt_l=BqPkwawt_m=JN1wCuFoPrNiL5 - Craig From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:16 -0600 Sender: Mercedes mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Good Stuff! Thanks! Seems a tankless heater is kinda like buying a pious to save money over driving a comfortable, long lasting MB mechanically injected Diesel. False economy. I never heard the part about having to wait a minute longer to actually get hot water before. I recently investigated replacing a commercial water heater with tankless. One mfgr told me it would take 12! (yes, 12 tankless heaters!) to replace the one commercial
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
How about telling them that it's not convenient for them to do so? And if their meter is faulty it's up to them to repair or replace the meter without unduly inconveniencing you. Good luck! Greg To me, this sounds like the best course of action for the first shot. You want to sound reasonable, but not roll over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Wind Chill
Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On Jan 21, 2014 10:50 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder whether it's 1 or 2 percent... There you go, confusing income and wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] WHY PEOPLE MOVE TO FLORIDA
There was a TV program showing how some MHs are tricked out for celebrities, NASCAR drivers and some for wealthy people interested in seeing N America - they go to extreme lengths to customize those coaches and usually make them easy for one person or couple to operate. There are even MH parks especially for the million dollars coaches which have all kinds of creature comforts... There was one program showing a retired engineer who built his own MH with a parking space for his Triumph Spitfire so it would be enclosed while traveling.It's amazing what people can do with motivation and imagination. ;-) Sincerely, LarryT On 1/21/2014 5:17 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: Uh, I believe it's Prevost. At least it was when they were a customer of ours at Kohler http://www.prevostcar.com The bulk of these custom coaches for touring come out of Nashville, of all places, as the country and western performers figured out this was the way to tour years ago. There are a handful of companies in Nashville that will contract out the coaches for a tour, providing customization, drivers and all related support. More or less a turn key sort of operation. we were often involved for staging service during the tour through our distribution. A nice way to make a buck, as the coaches came back off of a tour and they would be stripped to a shell and used on the next one or sold off, depending on the miles and condition of the chassis. Dan On Jan 21, 2014, at 8:54 AM, Mitch Haley wrote: arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: Note: Article says he lives in a Gulfstream, which is not a million dollar motorhome. Reporter on the local paper who wrote the original story, or the bio writer, got it wrong unless Gary bought a million dollar M/H later. Gerry If I had a million dollars to sink into a MH, would I call the Provost dealer or would I order a stripped model from an upper mid range brand and hire a contractor to do $800k worth of work on it? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT Well, if wind chill affected antifreeze, it would be rated on a temp/speed curve. It is not speed related. Use the factory recommended mixture and you won't have to worry in the lower 48 states or mehico. In the great white north, extreme measures may be needed for 40 below. colder than 10 below, it might be wise to block most of the airflow through the radiator for long trips. (as if you could even do that on modern veeehicles) Antifreeze is also anti-boil. a 50/50 mix is good for the lower 48. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Marshall said not years sgo. On Jan 22, 2014 6:02 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Gang, with much of the the east coast blanketed in snow, low temps and high winds at times, the weathermen are talking a lot about windchill.I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. I am protected to -5F or so but with temps around 0 and 20-30mph gusts the chill could beat my coolant protection. Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. With the knowledge out there I am sure lots have the answer -- ;-) Thanks -- Sincerely, LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 6:02 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Should i worry about my engine and wind chill? BTW, I'm pretty sure the liquid in things like radiators with leaking coolant will feel the chill if being driven - but I'm not sure it's affected if there are no leaks. My understanding is that wind chill is a derivative of evaporative cooling, so it shouldn't affect a radiator - there's nothing wet to evaporate on the surface. If there was a leak I suspect it would just freeze up and then there wouldn't be any leaks, but I don't know about that. I have heard a suggestion that the feels like number comes from smokers, banished to the outdoors during cold days. (Feels like it's 20 below out here! Puff puff.) Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
I was wondering if inanimate objects are affected by windchill? Yes, and no. Anything above ambient air temperature is affected by windchill. If it weren't, we wouldn't bother putting fans on radiators, etc. Windchill is why we might block off a radiator to get better cabin heat in really cold winter conditions. The reason I ask is for the coolant protection levels. No, don't worry about that. The WC temperature is not real. Windchill is saying that the cooling effect is the same as still air at the colder temperature, that's all. Nothing to do with evaporation, or with the final temperature of an unheated object. (Stopped car, or dead body.) Heat is not the same thing as temperature. WC is all about heat transfer, aka cooling effect. It's plenty relevant, especially for people, or HVAC calculations on buildings, but it's not a real temperature. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT How not to land your airplane
http://vimeo.com/84713706 --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
tax rate. On Jan 22, 2014 6:05 AM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: On Jan 21, 2014 10:50 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder whether it's 1 or 2 percent... There you go, confusing income and wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] alternative to bumstercare(less)
Your first step is to find a good doc. Second step is a good doc working at a good place with proper equipment, etc. Third step is a good doc in a good place very near a good hospital so if things go south you can get to a better place fast. --R On 1/21/14 10:51 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: A specialty clinic or specialty hospital with a good reputation is nearly always the best place to have surgery, but there are hundreds of surgical clinics and picking a good one is usually difficult. Picking one based on price is always questionable for the same reasons that picking other specialties involved skill; (such as car repair?)' is always questionable. Following is a link to an article in Forbes that reviews the questions of specialty clinics versus general hospitals: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0310/086.html Medical personnel are often asked about this or that specialty clinic. I usually put the name of the clinic on several search engines and include the word bad or review after their name. I also look up the physicians CV (curriculum vitae or educational record) if the person is seriously considering surgery. I did that with this surgery center and came up with the following comment about the writers wifes experience there. This is the only example I came up with so the surgery there seems to be satisfactory, but this patients experience might deter prospective patients if it is a legitimate complaint. Personally, I would rather go to a a specialty hospital or large clinic since there are enough doctors to insist on the removal of a bad staff physician who could damage theirs and the hospitals reputation. . The husband of an SCO patients wrote: My wife was in need of surgery and came across Surgery Center of Oklahoma (SCO) through an online article. An initial quote was obtained from the website and confirmed via telephone. As the pricing was very reasonable compared to local (California-based) providers, my wife completed the online booking process and was promptly put in touch with the contract surgeon who reviewed and discussed her case in great detail. The procedure was agreed upon and my wife received final confirmation of the surgery date and price from the surgery center (or so we thought). As a result, she made her travel arrangements to Oklahoma City. A few days before her scheduled departure, she suddenly received a phone call from SCO informing her that upon further review it was determined that additional equipment needed to be rented to perform the procedure and that she would be responsible for the additional $800 cost of the rental. The original price quote had been $1,695, so we were suddenly facing an increase of almost 50%. Apparently, no discussion had taken place between the contract surgeon and SCO about the additional equipment until this late in the game, but that had not stopped SCO from twice confirming the final price. With less than a week to go and having already paid for flight and hotel, we had little choice but to come up with the extra money. Upon arrival, my wife went to the contract surgeon's office for the scheduled in-person consultation on the day before the procedure. The surgeon had put himself into a scheduling conflict with a social event he wanted to attend later in the day and tried to rush through the consultation. My wife still had unanswered questions and had to get firm with him a few times insisting that he slow down and take the time necessary for a complete review, which he grudgingly did. On the day of the surgery, the check-in procedure was quick and efficient, and the surgery itself was completed without complications. The post-surgical experience, however, turned into a nightmare my wife does not ever want to relive. Her first recollection of waking up from general anesthesia was being cold and hearing some attendant yell (presumably at her) to stop kicking her blankets off. If she kept doing so, that attendant continued, he would not cover her again. To make things worse, she was put on a taxi back to her hotel before the anesthesia had worn off and while she was still incapacitated. Not being able to communicate, she ended up being taken to the wrong hotel by the taxi driver. Once the correct hotel had eventually been located, my wife was still too weak to walk without assistance. The taxi driver and hotel staff were kind enough to carry (!) her upstairs to her room where she continued to be unable to walk for another two hours. Anyone with less than good intentions would have been able to victimize her without resistance. Shockingly, the discharging nurse had given my wife a perfect score on the discharge report for her ability to move her extremities as well as being fully awake and oriented at the time of leaving SCO. In light of the fact that my wife has no recollection of even asking for a taxi nor was able to move
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
M...no. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/369141/poor-down-l-times-kevin-d-williamson *The Los Angeles Times is one of the great scandals in American life — that the nation’s second-largest city should have such an inept newspaper is an indictment of American journalism.* *A particularly good example of that is the newspaper’s just-retracted claim http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-oxfam-world-economic-forum-income-inequality-20140120,0,7080817.story#axzz2r85pXFNf that 85 individuals own nearly half of the world’s wealth, suspicious even to those of us with only English-major math to work with. The claim is — or should have been — rejected out of hand: One-half of the world’s wealth amounts to more than $100 trillion, which would mean that we would have to have 85 trillionaires walking the Earth, when in reality there are none. In fact, there is no one who is even one-tenth of the way there: Neither Bill Gates nor Carlos Slim has crossed the $100 billion mark, though it seems likely that somebody will, someday.* *What is really lost in the Times’s report, and in the Oxfam study http://www.oxfam.org/en/policy/working-for-the-few-economic-inequality upon which it is based, is the complete lack of appreciation for the fact that the lives of the world’s poor have in material terms seen radical improvement over the past 40 years. The very fact that we’re talking about the asset holdings of the world’s poor is an indicator that bears some contemplation. As recently as the 1980s, the conversation about global poverty was not very much focused on net worth — it was focused on famine. (On that subject, it is worth considering the extent to which modern famines have been caused by political actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines rather than by economic conditions or drought.)* *What can we do about the situation of the global poor? We could seize all of the wealth of those 85 super-rich people whose portfolios so fascinate the Los Angeles Times, which would have the effect of raising the average wealth of the world’s poor from about $485 to about $970 — not exactly a solution.* *The only way to help the world’s poor to a position of relative prosperity and economic independence is to help them to participate in the global economy, and here our progressive friends take a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don’t approach. They’re scandalized by the scanty assets of the world’s poor, and they’re even more scandalized when rich countries open their markets to the global poor, or when companies from rich countries invest in poor countries and employ the poor people residing therein. The Democrats refer to Americans who do business with the global poor as “economic traitors http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/332249/ted-strickland-s-revenge-rich-lowry,” and their most recent national convention was an energetic pageant of xenophobia, replete with ritualistic denunciations of the Yellow Peril come to steal our jobs.* *You can have one or the other. If you’re opposed to free trade, overseas investment, and global supply chains, fine — but don’t pretend like you give a rodential hind-eighth about the world’s poor when you’re blocking their only avenue toward relative prosperity and economic independence. And don’t pretend like you care about the American poor, either: The same system that scandalizes Democrats by allowing poor Chinese and Indians to eat also provides low-income Americans with lower prices on essential goods, one important reason why our poor people are no longer shoeless, which was the case within living memory.* *It is unhappily the case that a fictitious newspaper statistic can sprint halfway ’round the world while the correction is still lacing up its sneakers, so expect that Los Angeles Times account to live a long and active life.* On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: tax rate. On Jan 22, 2014 6:05 AM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: On Jan 21, 2014 10:50 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder whether it's 1 or 2 percent... There you go, confusing income and wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 06:38:17 -0800 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. It a hot-wire anemometer. Those are nifty devices. 136 mph in a HVAC duct seems a little excessive I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. Such a deal! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
They have circuitry to keep the temperature (or resistance) of the hot wire at a certain level with more current as the air flows past, and all that correlates to how much heat is being removed by the airflow (science!), which correlates to the speed of the air flow (the wind chill, sorta). There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. Back in college in my NASA summer internships we had those in the hypersonic wind tunnels to measure the airspeed, and I think in the other wind tunnels in general. That is a great deal on that instrument. --R On 1/22/14 10:22 AM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 06:38:17 -0800 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Speaking of that, I just yesterday got an air velocity meter at the thrift shop. It works by measuring the wind chill on a heated probe. Range from about 2 feet/minute to 12,000 feet/minute, or 136 MPH, in three ranges. Seems to be working. It's intended for HVAC ducting measurements. It a hot-wire anemometer. Those are nifty devices. 136 mph in a HVAC duct seems a little excessive I love tools. This one was $13. With case, charger, manual (including theory of operation and schematic). Kurz model 443. Such a deal! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
M...no. It has been the case that the major city newsprint rags are socialist propaganda and have been for 50-60 years. No surprise that the LAT, WP or NYT or whatever is printing baseless propaganda. Except for maybe an article about rhododendrons it is all propaganda, an much of it baseless. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
You know, that sorta raises a point I saw made some years ago that Walmart has done more to help poverty in America than the $20.7T spent on the war on poverty over the last 50 years (agree or disagree, I don't care, I find that assertion interesting on many levels). I think about that in terms of the fact that when I was in high school some 40+ years ago, a pair of Levi's jeans was $20 which was a fair amount back then and I was fortunate my parents could buy me a pair every year or so. Now you go to Wallyworld and a pair or Levi's is $20 or so, so in real $$ terms, that is maybe half the cost or maybe much less than back then? (gas was $0.25/gal cf. now $3/gal, bread was $0.25 a loaf, cf. $3 now...) --R On 1/22/14 10:26 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel wrote: M...no. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/369141/poor-down-l-times-kevin-d-williamson *You can have one or the other. If you’re opposed to free trade, overseas investment, and global supply chains, fine — but don’t pretend like you give a rodential hind-eighth about the world’s poor when you’re blocking their only avenue toward relative prosperity and economic independence. And don’t pretend like you care about the American poor, either: The same system that scandalizes Democrats by allowing poor Chinese and Indians to eat also provides low-income Americans with lower prices on essential goods, one important reason why our poor people are no longer shoeless, which was the case within living memory.* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:53:08 -0500 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Now you go to Wallyworld and a pair or Levi's is $20 or so, so in real $$ terms, that is maybe half the cost or maybe much less than back then? (gas was $0.25/gal cf. now $3/gal, bread was $0.25 a loaf, cf. $3 now...) Don't forget about entertainment and other electronics' downward price spiral and upward capability. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
We stayed at this little place near the San Jose airport in Costa Rica that had a water heater mounted on the shower head, which hung from a hose from the ceiling and the heater was in-line with the hose, and had a wire running to a plug on the wall. You had to start the water then reach up and flip the heater switch. While it delivered warmish water (which probably started off at 80F anyway), I had the thought it could heat me up real quick... And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R On 1/22/14 11:06 AM, G Mann wrote: It's all about temperature rise and volume Dan Exactly. I believe my tank less experience is satisfying because I took all the available data and factored it into my selection in advance. Including the length and volume of water line from the tank less heater to the use points in the house. That selection also included selection of the location of the tank less water heater relative to the use points , the average ambient water temperature vs the temperature rise across the heater, and the volume of flow with all use points open, then only one, two, etc etc. For my application, another factor at the ranch, which is rather remote, is fuel usage of a tank type to keep a tank of water hot full time [often no one is there] vs a house full of people when it's occupied with 8 bedrooms and baths going full tilt, two dishwashers running, kitchen demands etc etc. Bottom line, for my application, the tank less has been a success. For convenience sake, I believe however, I will add a second one and zone locate it to serve each wing of the bedrooms better. Advantage here is, it's not - 40 winter temps and older building where I was locked into one location to mount the water heater. Disadvantage is, what ever the choice, it has to live off the propane tank, city gas is 110 miles away, grid electric is 42 miles away. Electric tankless heaters are pretty cheap.. but have a large current requirement. In most applications, I've found they require a stand alone circuit to feed them. Gas tankless heaters are [if you don't shop hard] very much more expensive than a gas tank unit. They are however available in vented and unvented applications.. you might want to give both a study and consider if one located close to your shower would work for you. The footprint is small enough one could be mounted above the toilet tank in a standard bathroom, for example. Grant... On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:37 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: It's all about temperature rise and volume Dan On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Craig wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:01:15 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot water systems ( whole house) ? The posting I made to the list on 30 Dec 2012 and the two responses it received then are still appropriate: From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:22:27 -0700 Sender: Mercedes mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.10.4; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:00:36 -0600 Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Someone mentioned tankless water heater but nobody mentioned experience/caution. Do any of you have experience with tankless electric heaters? Our old electric GE is too old to get parts so tankless Stiebel (german) seems very nice. They have been doing tankless for years. Most of the USA outfits seem to be china implants. Any information/experience to steer me away from Stiebel or toward USA tankless - thanks. We got a Seisco RA-22 electric tankless for our new laundry room. That was because we didn't have room for a tank heater and I didn't want to punch a hole through the roof for a vent stack for a gas-fired water heater. Seisco's website is at http://seisco.com/ I bought our water heater from their Internet Exclusive Distributor, http://www.tankless-water-heaters.com/ Dan's comments about low incoming water temperature are right on the mark. I purchased the next-size-larger water heater than our usage (laundry, bathroom sink and tub) would require because of low incoming water temperature. It works OK. If I had to do it again, I might get the next size up. As it is, our water heater uses two 50 A, 240 VAC breakers. I just recalled, though, that our line voltage
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
For my application, another factor at the ranch, which is rather remote, is fuel usage of a tank type to keep a tank of water hot full time [often no one is there] My family's beach cabin gets its water heater turned off when no one's there. In winter, the water lines are drained too. There's a close-up checklist posted by the front door. That works pretty good, and has for 40+ years. When you get there you get the water turned on and any air purged out of the line, then you turn on the heater's breaker. By the time you'd want hot water anyway, it is ready. Maybe an hour? I see nothing wrong with a well-insulated electric tank heater, they're very efficient. Better than gas, which requires a flue, where heat can be lost just as well as gained. And when the power goes out you can still get a hot shower, if you don't wait too long. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
That makes sense, I probably knew that at some time in the past. --R On 1/22/14 11:16 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
It's all about temperature rise and volume Dan Exactly. I believe my tank less experience is satisfying because I took all the available data and factored it into my selection in advance. Including the length and volume of water line from the tank less heater to the use points in the house. That selection also included selection of the location of the tank less water heater relative to the use points , the average ambient water temperature vs the temperature rise across the heater, and the volume of flow with all use points open, then only one, two, etc etc. For my application, another factor at the ranch, which is rather remote, is fuel usage of a tank type to keep a tank of water hot full time [often no one is there] vs a house full of people when it's occupied with 8 bedrooms and baths going full tilt, two dishwashers running, kitchen demands etc etc. Bottom line, for my application, the tank less has been a success. For convenience sake, I believe however, I will add a second one and zone locate it to serve each wing of the bedrooms better. Advantage here is, it's not - 40 winter temps and older building where I was locked into one location to mount the water heater. Disadvantage is, what ever the choice, it has to live off the propane tank, city gas is 110 miles away, grid electric is 42 miles away. Electric tankless heaters are pretty cheap.. but have a large current requirement. In most applications, I've found they require a stand alone circuit to feed them. Gas tankless heaters are [if you don't shop hard] very much more expensive than a gas tank unit. They are however available in vented and unvented applications.. you might want to give both a study and consider if one located close to your shower would work for you. The footprint is small enough one could be mounted above the toilet tank in a standard bathroom, for example. Grant... On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:37 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: It's all about temperature rise and volume Dan On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Craig wrote: On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:01:15 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Not to veer off topic, but does anyone have experience with tankless hot water systems ( whole house) ? The posting I made to the list on 30 Dec 2012 and the two responses it received then are still appropriate: From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tankless Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:22:27 -0700 Sender: Mercedes mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.10.4; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:00:36 -0600 Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: Someone mentioned tankless water heater but nobody mentioned experience/caution. Do any of you have experience with tankless electric heaters? Our old electric GE is too old to get parts so tankless Stiebel (german) seems very nice. They have been doing tankless for years. Most of the USA outfits seem to be china implants. Any information/experience to steer me away from Stiebel or toward USA tankless - thanks. We got a Seisco RA-22 electric tankless for our new laundry room. That was because we didn't have room for a tank heater and I didn't want to punch a hole through the roof for a vent stack for a gas-fired water heater. Seisco's website is at http://seisco.com/ I bought our water heater from their Internet Exclusive Distributor, http://www.tankless-water-heaters.com/ Dan's comments about low incoming water temperature are right on the mark. I purchased the next-size-larger water heater than our usage (laundry, bathroom sink and tub) would require because of low incoming water temperature. It works OK. If I had to do it again, I might get the next size up. As it is, our water heater uses two 50 A, 240 VAC breakers. I just recalled, though, that our line voltage drops significantly when the water heater comes on. That reduces the power available to heat the water. Maybe I ought to call the County Utilities and ask them to put a bigger feed to our house. I have been suscribed to Ask the Builder emails from Tim Carter for awhile. A recent one featured a commentary about tankless water heaters: - Tip of the Week - Energy Retrofits - Return on Investment Myth The most recent issue of Remodeling magazine's cover story was about retrofitting houses with energy improvements. One part of the story listed the 10 Reasons to Retrofit. It said, and I quote, Some people invest in energy retrofits because they want to help achieve energy independence or reduce greenhouse gases or reverse climate change. For everyone else here are 10 more tangible reasons. The first
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
On 21/01/2014 9:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Well, the weather is heading toward zero so I am happy no one knows how much NG I am consuming... I can claim the thermostat is set at a toasty 55 degrees F ( 3 of Randy's degrees). How about 12.77 degrees C? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
On 21/01/2014 7:48 PM, Dieselhead wrote: How about telling them that it's not convenient for them to do so? And if their meter is faulty it's up to them to repair or replace the meter without unduly inconveniencing you. Good luck! Greg To me, this sounds like the best course of action for the first shot. You want to sound reasonable, but not roll over. ___ I would think the real question is how long has the meter not been working? If you have been paying a fairly regular payment over time then it ought not to be much of a problem to determine what you likely owe them for this most recent month or whatever your billing period is. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
On 21/01/2014 5:44 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Mountain Man wrote: Dieselhead wrote: The gas co technician that came to my daughter's house told her the best/most cost effective water heaters are the old ones and she should do everything she can to keep it going. I don't think it holds true for anything, unless he's saying a low end old one has a thicker longer lasting tank than a low end new one. The new electric ones are foam spray insulated, so there's less heat loss than the old fiberglass insulated ones. It's possible the heating elements are heavier in the old ones. When I wanted a sacrificial magnesium rod for my parents' 25 year old heater, I bought it from Amazon. Mitch. Being the gas co guy, the subject was GAS water hotters. The old ones had cast iron burners who last a long time. New ones have crappy tin burners, idiot/goobermnt controls, and only last 1-10 years. I bought a new water heater and it would not run. Had to get a new gas valve under warranty. Then it sprung a leak within a year. Got a second one under warranty. The PT valve on that had to be replaced a couple of times. So far, other than that, its ok, but probably about to ccrap out. ___ Cast iron burners would be a waste as the tank would rust through long before the burner gave up. Our gas hwt's lasted about 6 years on average before they started to leak. Interesting that the warranty was 5 years. I think we only collected on one that gave up just before the 5 year period ended. Hoping for better luck with the new electric one but not holding my breath. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 10:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R I have thoughts about that sort of thing out at the lake. We went down to a 20 gallon hwt - electric - so pretty slow to recover and not much hot water. A shower must be pretty fast - especially spring and fall when the lake water temperature is lower. Mid summer is not quite so bad. I have a galvanized pressure tank (40 gallon I think) that is not being used. It was the pressure tank for the pump but I replaced it with one of the type with the air bladder in it so this one is not being used. My plan is to put it inline and put it in a spot where it will get sunlight and paint it flat black. That should provide more hot water especially in the later part of the day as the water going into the hwt will be warmer than it otherwise would be. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
In various rich versus poor discussions I wonder why no one ever mentions Malthus? His /An Essay on the Principle of Population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_the_Principle_of_Population/ observed that sooner or later population will be checked by famine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine and disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease, leading to what is known as a Malthusian catastrophe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe. He wrote in opposition to the popular view in 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible.^[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus#cite_note-4 He thought that the dangers of population growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth precluded progress towards a utopian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia society: The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus Since the 1960s when the world was still seeing famines, and new types of rice and corn were developed that were primarily responsible for ending those famines, the population of the world has approximately doubled to roughly 7 billion. At the current rate of population growth, the world will have approximate half again as many people; roughly 10 billion; by 2050. Historically, the rate of population growth never slows down except with the help of the four horsemen; war, famine, disease, and I forget the fourth one. Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? Gerry.realist . On 1/22/2014 10:26 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel wrote: M...no. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/369141/poor-down-l-times-kevin-d-williamson *The Los Angeles Times is one of the great scandals in American life — that the nation’s second-largest city should have such an inept newspaper is an indictment of American journalism.* *A particularly good example of that is the newspaper’s just-retracted claim http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-oxfam-world-economic-forum-income-inequality-20140120,0,7080817.story#axzz2r85pXFNf that 85 individuals own nearly half of the world’s wealth, suspicious even to those of us with only English-major math to work with. The claim is — or should have been — rejected out of hand: One-half of the world’s wealth amounts to more than $100 trillion, which would mean that we would have to have 85 trillionaires walking the Earth, when in reality there are none. In fact, there is no one who is even one-tenth of the way there: Neither Bill Gates nor Carlos Slim has crossed the $100 billion mark, though it seems likely that somebody will, someday.* *What is really lost in the Times’s report, and in the Oxfam study http://www.oxfam.org/en/policy/working-for-the-few-economic-inequality upon which it is based, is the complete lack of appreciation for the fact that the lives of the world’s poor have in material terms seen radical improvement over the past 40 years. The very fact that we’re talking about the asset holdings of the world’s poor is an indicator that bears some contemplation. As recently as the 1980s, the conversation about global poverty was not very much focused on net worth — it was focused on famine. (On that subject, it is worth considering the extent to which modern famines have been caused by political actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines rather than by economic conditions or drought.)* *What can we do about the situation of the global poor? We could seize all of the wealth of those 85 super-rich people whose portfolios so fascinate the Los Angeles Times, which would have the effect of raising the average wealth of the world’s poor from about $485 to about $970 — not exactly a solution.* *The only way to help the world’s poor to a position of relative prosperity and economic independence is to help them to participate in the global economy, and here our progressive friends take a damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don’t approach. They’re scandalized by the scanty assets of the world’s poor, and they’re even more scandalized when rich countries open their markets to the global poor, or when companies from rich countries invest in poor countries and employ the poor people residing therein. The Democrats refer to Americans who do business with the global poor as “economic traitors http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/332249/ted-strickland-s-revenge-rich-lowry,” and their most recent national convention was an energetic pageant of xenophobia, replete with ritualistic denunciations of the Yellow Peril come to steal our jobs.* *You can have one or the other. If you’re opposed to free trade, overseas investment, and global supply chains, fine — but don’t pretend like you give a rodential
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 10:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R I have thoughts about that sort of thing out at the lake. We went down to a 20 gallon hwt - electric - so pretty slow to recover and not much hot water. A shower must be pretty fast - especially spring and fall when the lake water temperature is lower. Mid summer is not quite so bad. I have a galvanized pressure tank (40 gallon I think) that is not being used. It was the pressure tank for the pump but I replaced it with one of the type with the air bladder in it so this one is not being used. My plan is to put it inline and put it in a spot where it will get sunlight and paint it flat black. That should provide more hot water especially in the later part of the day as the water going into the hwt will be warmer than it otherwise would be. Randy I have hat thoughts of putting an old range boiler tank in the attic (horizontally) at the lake cottage and then feeding from it to the water heater as a preheater. Or, just using a pipe strung under the rafters for a gravity fed loop. It gets rather toasty up there in the summer. But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. So right now there is no savings from doing either. If someone lived there all summer, that would change things. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
Hopped in the '84 190D this morning to commute as the Jetta is still in the shop. It started hard but at -8F thats not entirely unexpected. I got about 400 yards when it quit. It'll restart if I hold the go pedal to the floor but wont stay running. I suspect what with our huge temp fluctuations and wet weather before the cold its got water in the can filter which has frozen. Angie brought the pickup and we dragged it home. I plugged in the block heater and took the pickup to work (stranding Angie at her office). On the way home I'll pick up a bottle of Power Service and give 'er a shot. If it runs I'll keep it going to circulate the stuff good, if not I'll put my little electric heater under the hood to warm up the filter and give that a try. Supposed to get all the way up to 10F today, we'll see... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
We stayed at this little place near the San Jose airport in Costa Rica that had a water heater mounted on the shower head, which hung from a hose from the ceiling and the heater was in-line with the hose, and had a wire running to a plug on the wall. You had to start the water then reach up and flip the heater switch. While it delivered warmish water (which probably started off at 80F anyway), I had the thought it could heat me up real quick... And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R Where Grant lives, throwing a 250' coil of 1 1/4 black plastic pipe on the roof should provide plenty of hot water for daytime/evening use. add some controls and a storage tank, and it should be free hot water. (unless it gets so hot it melts the plastic. then you can try white or clear) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
I would suspect that at -8 degrees you have reached the fuel gell point for #2 diesel. Further, I suspect, you got enough liquid fuel to fire off the engine and make low speed .. but any demand above that and the engine reaches fuel starvation. I could be wrong.. bring the car closer to the internet so I can have a good look ;))) Grant... On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Hopped in the '84 190D this morning to commute as the Jetta is still in the shop. It started hard but at -8F thats not entirely unexpected. I got about 400 yards when it quit. It'll restart if I hold the go pedal to the floor but wont stay running. I suspect what with our huge temp fluctuations and wet weather before the cold its got water in the can filter which has frozen. Angie brought the pickup and we dragged it home. I plugged in the block heater and took the pickup to work (stranding Angie at her office). On the way home I'll pick up a bottle of Power Service and give 'er a shot. If it runs I'll keep it going to circulate the stuff good, if not I'll put my little electric heater under the hood to warm up the filter and give that a try. Supposed to get all the way up to 10F today, we'll see... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
Hopped in the '84 190D this morning to commute as the Jetta is still in the shop. It started hard but at -8F thats not entirely unexpected. I got about 400 yards when it quit. It'll restart if I hold the go pedal to the floor but wont stay running. I suspect what with our huge temp fluctuations and wet weather before the cold its got water in the can filter which has frozen. Angie brought the pickup and we dragged it home. I plugged in the block heater and took the pickup to work (stranding Angie at her office). On the way home I'll pick up a bottle of Power Service and give 'er a shot. If it runs I'll keep it going to circulate the stuff good, if not I'll put my little electric heater under the hood to warm up the filter and give that a try. Supposed to get all the way up to 10F today, we'll see... -Curt You sure the fuel is not gelled? could be water. Mostly it is fuel in the last 10 yrs or so. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
In various rich versus poor discussions I wonder why no one ever mentions Malthus? His /An Essay on the Principle of Population He thought that the dangers of population growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth precluded progress towards a utopian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia society: The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus Since the 1960s when the world was still seeing famines, and new types of rice and corn were developed that were primarily responsible for ending those famines, the population of the world has approximately doubled to roughly 7 billion. At the current rate of population growth, the world will have approximate half again as many people; roughly 10 billion; by 2050. Historically, the rate of population growth never slows down except with the help of the four horsemen; war, famine, disease, and I forget the fourth one. Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? Gerry.realist I'd only change the last sentance a bit: Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? Why do people cling to the view that a socialist utopian society is possible when it has been self destructive every time it has been tried? Why do people cling to the view that a socialist utopian society is DESIRABLE when it has been an unmitgated disaster EVERY time it has been tried? Talk about Bitter Clingers!(but most accusations of the left are exactly what they are doing) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Sent from my iPad ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 11:32 AM, Dieselhead wrote: On 22/01/2014 10:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R I have thoughts about that sort of thing out at the lake. We went down to a 20 gallon hwt - electric - so pretty slow to recover and not much hot water. A shower must be pretty fast - especially spring and fall when the lake water temperature is lower. Mid summer is not quite so bad. I have a galvanized pressure tank (40 gallon I think) that is not being used. It was the pressure tank for the pump but I replaced it with one of the type with the air bladder in it so this one is not being used. My plan is to put it inline and put it in a spot where it will get sunlight and paint it flat black. That should provide more hot water especially in the later part of the day as the water going into the hwt will be warmer than it otherwise would be. Randy I have hat thoughts of putting an old range boiler tank in the attic (horizontally) at the lake cottage and then feeding from it to the water heater as a preheater. Or, just using a pipe strung under the rafters for a gravity fed loop. It gets rather toasty up there in the summer. But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. So right now there is no savings from doing either. If someone lived there all summer, that would change things. ___ I could probably do the coil on the roof thing too. Don't know about mounting things in the attic. Toasty warm up there but things that leak can create new problems. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
On 22/01/2014 11:44 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Hopped in the '84 190D this morning to commute as the Jetta is still in the shop. It started hard but at -8F thats not entirely unexpected. I got about 400 yards when it quit. It'll restart if I hold the go pedal to the floor but wont stay running. I suspect what with our huge temp fluctuations and wet weather before the cold its got water in the can filter which has frozen. Angie brought the pickup and we dragged it home. I plugged in the block heater and took the pickup to work (stranding Angie at her office). On the way home I'll pick up a bottle of Power Service and give 'er a shot. If it runs I'll keep it going to circulate the stuff good, if not I'll put my little electric heater under the hood to warm up the filter and give that a try. Supposed to get all the way up to 10F today, we'll see... -Curt You sure the fuel is not gelled? could be water. Mostly it is fuel in the last 10 yrs or so. Is that not where one pours in a bit of gasoline and bounces the car around a bit to mix it in? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
I remember reading that the payoff on photovoltaic solar was dubious at best and in the 30 year time frame while for solar hot water it was more like 7-10 years making solar hot water a really good investment. They're showing up all over the place near us lately. We have tankless hydronic heat with an oil burner which also provides our hot water which is good, no shortage of hot water although with the recent cold if the heat comes on while taking a shower it gets a good deal less hot but still acceptable. My parents had the same until about 6 months ago when they had their (40 year old?) furnace replaced with a similar unit that has a tank. The downside of the tankless is that the furnace runs frequently (hourly?) to keep things warm should you want hot water. This wastes oil all summer. With a tank it runs twice a day. My parents report about a 30% drop in oil use with the new system. Considering the savings in oil Dad figures the furnace will pay for itself this year. I'm currently saving up to get the same deal. With a tanked system I could take advantage of solar which we really can't right now. We don't have great solar exposure though. I'm pushing my parents to do it, they have a huge south facing roof that has no shade. The solar hot water would make their summer time oil use minimal and shade that roof enough to reduce their heat load... -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:21:56 -0500 From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer] Message-ID: 52dff024.7090...@constructivity.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed We stayed at this little place near the San Jose airport in Costa Rica that had a water heater mounted on the shower head, which hung from a hose from the ceiling and the heater was in-line with the hose, and had a wire running to a plug on the wall. You had to start the water then reach up and flip the heater switch. While it delivered warmish water (which probably started off at 80F anyway), I had the thought it could heat me up real quick... And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
Thats how warranty works. The manufacturer calculates how long they expect 80% of the devices to last and sets that as the warranty period. Because of that when a warranty period ends you should expect the failure rate to rise. If you want longer life buy a unit with a longer warranty. The problem comes when there isn't a longer warranty to get... -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:35:16 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] HWT Message-ID: 52dff344.5030...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Cast iron burners would be a waste as the tank would rust through long before the burner gave up. Our gas hwt's lasted about 6 years on average before they started to leak. Interesting that the warranty was 5 years. I think we only collected on one that gave up just before the 5 year period ended. Hoping for better luck with the new electric one but not holding my breath. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
He doesn't want the hassle of packing, shipping, potential for damage, etc. A courier isn't going to pack it up Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
We're doing something similar at camp. I've got a 20 gallon pressure tank from my parent's house. I'm going to hang it on the side of the shower house, paint it black. The pump is on a little trailer that we can hook behind the generator which gets hooked behind the Cub Cadet. Run down to the pond, dip a hose in the pond (actually hook up to the hand pump's line) run a line to the tank, start the generator and pump. Fill the tank. During the day the tank warms up, at least warmer than the pond which is spring fed and WICKED COLD. We've got a little battery/propane camp shower that works good but is hard on batteries and propane. I figure giving it gravity feed will help with the battery problem and preheating the water will help with it being hard on propane. It'll also mean we don't have to haul buckets of water... -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:08:58 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Water Heating Message-ID: 52dffb2a.7070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 22/01/2014 10:21 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: And no one is talking about using a solar heater to get your tank warmed up so the electric just adds the last bit of oomph if you even need it. I think you can still get tax credits on those things, and they pretty much amount to a panel, circulating pump and heat exchanger tank before the main hot water heater. Kinda simple and depending on your locale probably quick payback. I had thought about one for my addition but being in the woods I don't get much direct sun on the roof. --R I have thoughts about that sort of thing out at the lake. We went down to a 20 gallon hwt - electric - so pretty slow to recover and not much hot water. A shower must be pretty fast - especially spring and fall when the lake water temperature is lower. Mid summer is not quite so bad. I have a galvanized pressure tank (40 gallon I think) that is not being used. It was the pressure tank for the pump but I replaced it with one of the type with the air bladder in it so this one is not being used. My plan is to put it inline and put it in a spot where it will get sunlight and paint it flat black. That should provide more hot water especially in the later part of the day as the water going into the hwt will be warmer than it otherwise would be. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
I thought that at first too but I can see a couple little bubbles in the clear filter and it I tap the filter they move around good, no sign of thickening there. Plus its been this cold a couple times already and the car started good and ran good. The fact that it won't stay running now makes me think the ice is blocking flow into the canister filter. Either way a good triple dose of Power Service will fix things, it'll lower the gell point and sequester water. I'll let the car idle for awhile and since the block heater has been on all day it'll warm up quick and pump warm fuel/additive mix back into the tank. The only time I've ever seen gell was when I first bought my '85 190D which had summer fuel in December. It'd start and run but wouldn't go in anything above first gear. I let it idle for an hour and the recirculation of warm fuel was enough to drive to a gas station and get a fill of good winter diesel. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:41:30 -0700 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming Message-ID: cantulyjxsq38svuraznouov7zgjjck9modkjgx_vgalvuvk...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would suspect that at -8 degrees you have reached the fuel gell point for #2 diesel. Further, I suspect, you got enough liquid fuel to fire off the engine and make low speed .. but any demand above that and the engine reaches fuel starvation. I could be wrong.. bring the car closer to the internet so I can have a good look ;))) Grant... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
I'll be in Burbank in a couple weeks (Feb 2 - 12). Its almost 2 hours down, if he'd meet somewhere I'd be up to it. I have friends in Anaheim or right by LAX if you could get him to drop it off somewhere like that. They'll ship for me if I ask. Actually best case if you could get him to Burbank he could drop it off at my office... -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:51:02 -0500 From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com, Banned List ban...@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? Message-ID: 4693b1ba-7b0a-4ea3-a4eb-f190ed7e7...@penoff.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Sent from my iPad ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
I was just thinking I've got some kerosene in the garage that I could mix in which would fix gelling too. Still think I'm gonna go with Power Service though. Save my kero for the Aladdin lamp in case the power goes out. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:57:36 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming Message-ID: 52e00690.8070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 22/01/2014 11:44 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Hopped in the '84 190D this morning to commute as the Jetta is still in the shop. It started hard but at -8F thats not entirely unexpected. I got about 400 yards when it quit. It'll restart if I hold the go pedal to the floor but wont stay running. I suspect what with our huge temp fluctuations and wet weather before the cold its got water in the can filter which has frozen. Angie brought the pickup and we dragged it home. I plugged in the block heater and took the pickup to work (stranding Angie at her office). On the way home I'll pick up a bottle of Power Service and give 'er a shot. If it runs I'll keep it going to circulate the stuff good, if not I'll put my little electric heater under the hood to warm up the filter and give that a try. Supposed to get all the way up to 10F today, we'll see... -Curt You sure the fuel is not gelled? could be water. Mostly it is fuel in the last 10 yrs or so. Is that not where one pours in a bit of gasoline and bounces the car around a bit to mix it in? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On Jan 22, 2014 10:05 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: tax rate. ...Is a factor of income, not wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: We're doing something similar at camp. I've got a 20 gallon pressure tank from my parent's house. I'm going to hang it on the side of the shower house, paint it black. The pump is on a little trailer that we can hook behind the generator which gets hooked behind the Cub Cadet. Run down to the pond, dip a hose in the pond (actually hook up to the hand pump's line) run a line to the tank, start the generator and pump. Fill the tank. During the day the tank warms up, at least warmer than the pond which is spring fed and WICKED COLD. We've got a little battery/propane camp shower that works good but is hard on batteries and propane. I figure giving it gravity feed will help with the battery problem and preheating the water will help with it being hard on propane. It'll also mean we don't have to haul buckets of water... -Curt Maybe you need to do what folks did at the cottages on Lake of the Woods before there was electricity in the area. They built water towers and put big galvanized tanks on top.Then they filled them via a gasoline powered pump and let gravity feed the cottage. The water got pretty warm in summer so I doubt the drank from it but for every other purpose, it would be fine. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
On 22/01/2014 12:03 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Thats how warranty works. The manufacturer calculates how long they expect 80% of the devices to last and sets that as the warranty period. Because of that when a warranty period ends you should expect the failure rate to rise. If you want longer life buy a unit with a longer warranty. The problem comes when there isn't a longer warranty to get... -Curt OR the one with the 10 year warranty costs double what the one with the 5 year warranty costs. Then you may as well have a new one if you can install it yourself. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
Could likely use some of the plastic barrels that are regularely offered around here for anywhere from free to $10 each. Good solid 40 gallon barrels that originally held some sort of liquid soap. Paint them black and fill them up. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
They are the same units, you are just paying for a warranty! --R On 1/22/14 2:21 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 22/01/2014 12:03 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Thats how warranty works. The manufacturer calculates how long they expect 80% of the devices to last and sets that as the warranty period. Because of that when a warranty period ends you should expect the failure rate to rise. If you want longer life buy a unit with a longer warranty. The problem comes when there isn't a longer warranty to get... -Curt OR the one with the 10 year warranty costs double what the one with the 5 year warranty costs. Then you may as well have a new one if you can install it yourself. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
I don't think they are identical. Probably just a bit heavier coating of glass on the inside to prevent rust killing them a bit sooner. Randy On 22/01/2014 1:35 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: They are the same units, you are just paying for a warranty! --R On 1/22/14 2:21 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 22/01/2014 12:03 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Thats how warranty works. The manufacturer calculates how long they expect 80% of the devices to last and sets that as the warranty period. Because of that when a warranty period ends you should expect the failure rate to rise. If you want longer life buy a unit with a longer warranty. The problem comes when there isn't a longer warranty to get... -Curt OR the one with the 10 year warranty costs double what the one with the 5 year warranty costs. Then you may as well have a new one if you can install it yourself. Randy ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
Well, some years ago the company I worked for, and one of my buddies, did a lot of work with heating equipment manufacturers (including water heaters) regarding efficiency and that is what they told him when he was selecting units to be sent for testing. Mostly a marketing scam. Now that might have changed since then, but I doubt they would make 2 versions of the same product with a minor change such as that. But I might be wrong, would be interesting to see if it has changed. --R On 1/22/14 2:45 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: I don't think they are identical. Probably just a bit heavier coating of glass on the inside to prevent rust killing them a bit sooner. Randy On 22/01/2014 1:35 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: They are the same units, you are just paying for a warranty! --R On 1/22/14 2:21 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: On 22/01/2014 12:03 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Thats how warranty works. The manufacturer calculates how long they expect 80% of the devices to last and sets that as the warranty period. Because of that when a warranty period ends you should expect the failure rate to rise. If you want longer life buy a unit with a longer warranty. The problem comes when there isn't a longer warranty to get... -Curt OR the one with the 10 year warranty costs double what the one with the 5 year warranty costs. Then you may as well have a new one if you can install it yourself. Randy ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HWT
On 22/01/2014 1:59 PM, Rich Thomas wrote: Well, some years ago the company I worked for, and one of my buddies, did a lot of work with heating equipment manufacturers (including water heaters) regarding efficiency and that is what they told him when he was selecting units to be sent for testing. Mostly a marketing scam. Now that might have changed since then, but I doubt they would make 2 versions of the same product with a minor change such as that. But I might be wrong, would be interesting to see if it has changed. --R The ones that I looked at looked different. They went to enough effort to try to differentiate them anyway. Different trim color etc. Who knows? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Are you sure a courier won't do it? I know here in the office, that if we don't have the special envelope, they will bring it with them. They might do the same with a box. Randy On 22/01/2014 12:02 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: He doesn't want the hassle of packing, shipping, potential for damage, etc. A courier isn't going to pack it up Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Have him drop it at one of those mailing places, Kinkos or the Office Depots or mailbox etc. places, they will box it and ship it for some nominal fee. Just call them with a CC and be done with it. Why he could not do that is a question. I think UPS will pick it up at his place if he puts it in a box. --R On 1/22/14 3:18 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: Are you sure a courier won't do it? I know here in the office, that if we don't have the special envelope, they will bring it with them. They might do the same with a box. Randy On 22/01/2014 12:02 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: He doesn't want the hassle of packing, shipping, potential for damage, etc. A courier isn't going to pack it up Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Courier/UPS/FedEx has pouch or box ready for it; rings doorbell; seller hands courier the item; courier drops item in pouch/box; seals it; hands seller shipping receipt; item's on the way. What else? Wilt - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
It's a laptop, a bunch of cables and a MUX (multiplexer). Not the sort of things you can just dump in a box and expect to make it to the destination intact. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:44 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Courier/UPS/FedEx has pouch or box ready for it; rings doorbell; seller hands courier the item; courier drops item in pouch/box; seals it; hands seller shipping receipt; item's on the way. What else? Wilt - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Yep; was wondering 'bout that. Wilt - Original Message - From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? It's a laptop, a bunch of cables and a MUX (multiplexer). Not the sort of things you can just dump in a box and expect to make it to the destination intact. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:44 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Courier/UPS/FedEx has pouch or box ready for it; rings doorbell; seller hands courier the item; courier drops item in pouch/box; seals it; hands seller shipping receipt; item's on the way. What else? Wilt - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
But, with that in mind, I just asked if he would be willing to drop everything off at a UPS or FedEx store, and I can have them pack and ship... Thanks, everybody! Sometimes the obvious isn't... Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:52 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Yep; was wondering 'bout that. Wilt - Original Message - From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? It's a laptop, a bunch of cables and a MUX (multiplexer). Not the sort of things you can just dump in a box and expect to make it to the destination intact. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:44 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Courier/UPS/FedEx has pouch or box ready for it; rings doorbell; seller hands courier the item; courier drops item in pouch/box; seals it; hands seller shipping receipt; item's on the way. What else? Wilt - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? On 22/01/2014 11:51 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Anyone close to here? I ask because I have a lead on a C3 Star code reader but the seller won't ship... Drop me a PM if you are. Thanks, Dan Send courier to pick up from him? Not much different than if you go to his door. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT on global icing
or whatever off-topic global warming/climatehopeychangey thing you want to call it http://gizmodo.com/a-map-of-the-mile-thick-ice-sheet-that-made-modern-manh-1506501057/@sarah-hedgecock So why did the ice retreat? Why did it form to begin with? why so much climate change? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
More truthful but way less funnier, depending on one's sense of humor. We are basking in Winnipeg-esque temperatures here in D.C. Well below your zero, approaching -15 C tonight. And, we got 4.5 inches (923 mm) of snow yesterday - our first measurable snowfall in 2 years! On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 21/01/2014 9:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Well, the weather is heading toward zero so I am happy no one knows how much NG I am consuming... I can claim the thermostat is set at a toasty 55 degrees F ( 3 of Randy's degrees). How about 12.77 degrees C? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
Walmart is able to charge so litle because it pays its workers so little. Many of them are on public assistance to make ends meet because WM doesn't pay them a living wage. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: On Jan 22, 2014 10:05 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: tax rate. ...Is a factor of income, not wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] alternative to bumstercare(less)
The DC area is lousy with great docs and great hospitals. To paraphrase a famous Klingon expression, This is a good place to die - later. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Your first step is to find a good doc. Second step is a good doc working at a good place with proper equipment, etc. Third step is a good doc in a good place very near a good hospital so if things go south you can get to a better place fast. --R On 1/21/14 10:51 PM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: A specialty clinic or specialty hospital with a good reputation is nearly always the best place to have surgery, but there are hundreds of surgical clinics and picking a good one is usually difficult. Picking one based on price is always questionable for the same reasons that picking other specialties involved skill; (such as car repair?)' is always questionable. Following is a link to an article in Forbes that reviews the questions of specialty clinics versus general hospitals: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0310/086.html Medical personnel are often asked about this or that specialty clinic. I usually put the name of the clinic on several search engines and include the word bad or review after their name. I also look up the physicians CV (curriculum vitae or educational record) if the person is seriously considering surgery. I did that with this surgery center and came up with the following comment about the writers wifes experience there. This is the only example I came up with so the surgery there seems to be satisfactory, but this patients experience might deter prospective patients if it is a legitimate complaint. Personally, I would rather go to a a specialty hospital or large clinic since there are enough doctors to insist on the removal of a bad staff physician who could damage theirs and the hospitals reputation. . The husband of an SCO patients wrote: My wife was in need of surgery and came across Surgery Center of Oklahoma (SCO) through an online article. An initial quote was obtained from the website and confirmed via telephone. As the pricing was very reasonable compared to local (California-based) providers, my wife completed the online booking process and was promptly put in touch with the contract surgeon who reviewed and discussed her case in great detail. The procedure was agreed upon and my wife received final confirmation of the surgery date and price from the surgery center (or so we thought). As a result, she made her travel arrangements to Oklahoma City. A few days before her scheduled departure, she suddenly received a phone call from SCO informing her that upon further review it was determined that additional equipment needed to be rented to perform the procedure and that she would be responsible for the additional $800 cost of the rental. The original price quote had been $1,695, so we were suddenly facing an increase of almost 50%. Apparently, no discussion had taken place between the contract surgeon and SCO about the additional equipment until this late in the game, but that had not stopped SCO from twice confirming the final price. With less than a week to go and having already paid for flight and hotel, we had little choice but to come up with the extra money. Upon arrival, my wife went to the contract surgeon's office for the scheduled in-person consultation on the day before the procedure. The surgeon had put himself into a scheduling conflict with a social event he wanted to attend later in the day and tried to rush through the consultation. My wife still had unanswered questions and had to get firm with him a few times insisting that he slow down and take the time necessary for a complete review, which he grudgingly did. On the day of the surgery, the check-in procedure was quick and efficient, and the surgery itself was completed without complications. The post-surgical experience, however, turned into a nightmare my wife does not ever want to relive. Her first recollection of waking up from general anesthesia was being cold and hearing some attendant yell (presumably at her) to stop kicking her blankets off. If she kept doing so, that attendant continued, he would not cover her again. To make things worse, she was put on a taxi back to her hotel before the anesthesia had worn off and while she was still incapacitated. Not being able to communicate, she ended up being taken to the wrong hotel by the taxi driver. Once the correct hotel had eventually been located, my wife was still too weak to walk without assistance. The taxi driver and hotel staff were kind enough to carry (!) her upstairs to her room where she continued to be unable to walk for another two hours. Anyone with less than good intentions would have been able to victimize her without resistance. Shockingly, the discharging nurse had given my wife a perfect score on
Re: [MBZ] Wind chill
I bought a super slick noise meter on ebay for around $30 delivered. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: That makes sense, I probably knew that at some time in the past. --R On 1/22/14 11:16 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: There is some aspect to do with the temperature of the airflow, I forget what it is. The temperature of the unheated body of the probe is also measured, and subtracted out by the circuitry. (Wheatstone bridge, one bottom leg is the body thermistor, the other bottom leg is the heated sensor. Aren't schematics fun!) This instrument is designed to be accurate at room temperature, and probably misreads more the further the temperature gets from there. I can just wave the probe around and watch the meter needle respond. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
Sounds like the redistribution of wealth that is being touted heavily -- wealthy taxpayers support lower-wage workers, plenty of workers who will take the jobs, what's not to like? Who's the fool? Wally has it figured out and the sheeple and their representatives willfully go along with it. --R (typing with invisible hands) On 1/22/14 4:56 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Walmart is able to charge so litle because it pays its workers so little. Many of them are on public assistance to make ends meet because WM doesn't pay them a living wage. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Tim Crone bb...@crone.us wrote: On Jan 22, 2014 10:05 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: tax rate. ...Is a factor of income, not wealth. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] alternative to bumstercare(less)
Soon to be another joining them! On 1/22/14 4:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: The DC area is lousy with great docs and great hospitals. To paraphrase a famous Klingon expression, This is a good place to die - later. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
Dan Penoff wrote: But, with that in mind, I just asked if he would be willing to drop everything off at a UPS or FedEx store, and I can have them pack and ship... I once bought a turntable on ebay. The seller not only didn't have the shipping supports for the platter, he didn't know anything about turntables and took it to the UPS store. They threw it in a box, the platter promptly came off the shaft, and from CA to MI the platter was rolling around under the dust cover, destroying everything it could reach. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
Snow is a solvent on the glue of society in the DC area. You got a coupla days off though, right? --R On 1/22/14 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: And, we got 4.5 inches (923 mm) of snow yesterday - our first measurable snowfall in 2 years! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Not sure what to make of all this discussion, inasmuch as a lot pertains to electric heaters. We have a 50 gallon, 12 year old Sears NG tank. I like the idea of preheating the water into the NG tank using an electric tankless unit. Does everyone agree this will be the most cost effective way to increase the volume of really hot water to the big tub? Most cost effective thing is to drain the dirt out of the bottom of the heater so it holds 50 gallons of water again. 2nd most cost effective thing is probably cranking the thermostat to 140-150, so you can blend that 50 gallons of hot water with some cold to make more than 50 gallons. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:24:23 -0500 arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: He thought that the dangers of population growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth precluded progress towards a utopian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia society: The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man. How wrong he was! He was disproved long ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus Since the 1960s when the world was still seeing famines, and new types of rice and corn were developed that were primarily responsible for ending those famines, the population of the world has approximately doubled to roughly 7 billion. At the current rate of population growth, the world will have approximate half again as many people; roughly 10 billion; by 2050. The rate of growth of world population has slowed significantly, such that world population will peak mid-century, and then GO DOWN. Many countries are well below replacement rate (e.g., Japan and Italy) and will implode. Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? First, because population growth is under control and is not ominous. Second, because the discredited Malthusian argument holds no water, as your example of new types of rice and corn illustrates; man is a creative being, made in the image of his Creator, and has and will continue to work around difficulties. Third, because politics and forms of government, not drought and other weather-related incidents is what is causing famines. Fourth, because they refuse to acknowledge that mankind is inherently bad and can never be perfected, nor can his governments. If you think otherwise, you are either brainwashed, are listening to Chicken Little too much, or both. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 23:48:43 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure what to make of all this discussion, inasmuch as a lot pertains to electric heaters. We have a 50 gallon, 12 year old Sears NG tank. I like the idea of preheating the water into the NG tank using an electric tankless unit. Does everyone agree this will be the most cost effective way to increase the volume of really hot water to the big tub? For initial outlay, yes. You might try both arrangements: with the tankless first and with the tank first. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating [was: Re: Coleman collectors WAS: low cost 3D metal printer]
IIRC the thermostat is set way high, but I will double check. I might have lowered it too much. If I did, then D'OH to me. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Not sure what to make of all this discussion, inasmuch as a lot pertains to electric heaters. We have a 50 gallon, 12 year old Sears NG tank. I like the idea of preheating the water into the NG tank using an electric tankless unit. Does everyone agree this will be the most cost effective way to increase the volume of really hot water to the big tub? Most cost effective thing is to drain the dirt out of the bottom of the heater so it holds 50 gallons of water again. 2nd most cost effective thing is probably cranking the thermostat to 140-150, so you can blend that 50 gallons of hot water with some cold to make more than 50 gallons. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
Rich, I hope you are happy that your tax dollars are helping WM employees by funding their demand on welfare, SNAP, and other government programs. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:24:23 -0500 arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: He thought that the dangers of population growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth precluded progress towards a utopian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia society: The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man. How wrong he was! He was disproved long ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus Since the 1960s when the world was still seeing famines, and new types of rice and corn were developed that were primarily responsible for ending those famines, the population of the world has approximately doubled to roughly 7 billion. At the current rate of population growth, the world will have approximate half again as many people; roughly 10 billion; by 2050. The rate of growth of world population has slowed significantly, such that world population will peak mid-century, and then GO DOWN. Many countries are well below replacement rate (e.g., Japan and Italy) and will implode. Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? First, because population growth is under control and is not ominous. Second, because the discredited Malthusian argument holds no water, as your example of new types of rice and corn illustrates; man is a creative being, made in the image of his Creator, and has and will continue to work around difficulties. Third, because politics and forms of government, not drought and other weather-related incidents is what is causing famines. Fourth, because they refuse to acknowledge that mankind is inherently bad and can never be perfected, nor can his governments. If you think otherwise, you are either brainwashed, are listening to Chicken Little too much, or both. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: hot water
1 day + 2 hours. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Snow is a solvent on the glue of society in the DC area. You got a coupla days off though, right? --R On 1/22/14 4:52 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: And, we got 4.5 inches (923 mm) of snow yesterday - our first measurable snowfall in 2 years! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:32:56 -0600 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have hat thoughts of putting an old range boiler tank in the attic (horizontally) at the lake cottage and then feeding from it to the water heater as a preheater. Or, just using a pipe strung under the rafters for a gravity fed loop. It gets rather toasty up there in the summer. For a gravity-fed loop, the heat source has to be at the bottom. When we lived in Colorado Springs, we had a tank-type hot water heater in the basement underneath the kitchen. An insulated copper pipe went from the heater's outlet to the kitchen faucet and then a second copper pipe went from the faucet down to the center leg of a tee that extended the drain valve out from the tank. The cooler, heavier water in the uninsulated pipe caused a circulation that always kept the water at the kitchen faucet hot, allowing immediate hot water when the faucet was turned on. I thought it was a very clever idea. But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. What in the world?! You pay for propane even when you don't use it?! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
I did much the same in our house in Indianapolis. My youngest son's bedroom was on the second floor as far away from the water heater as you could get. While I couldn't reach up to his bathroom, I ran a loop in the hot water supply line to the point where the line went up into the wall cavity in the basement and ran it back to a tee in the drain fitting of the heater (the heater was in the basement). While it didn't circulate hot water all the way up to his bathroom, it cut down on the time it took for him to get hot water. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:41 PM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:32:56 -0600 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have hat thoughts of putting an old range boiler tank in the attic (horizontally) at the lake cottage and then feeding from it to the water heater as a preheater. Or, just using a pipe strung under the rafters for a gravity fed loop. It gets rather toasty up there in the summer. For a gravity-fed loop, the heat source has to be at the bottom. When we lived in Colorado Springs, we had a tank-type hot water heater in the basement underneath the kitchen. An insulated copper pipe went from the heater's outlet to the kitchen faucet and then a second copper pipe went from the faucet down to the center leg of a tee that extended the drain valve out from the tank. The cooler, heavier water in the uninsulated pipe caused a circulation that always kept the water at the kitchen faucet hot, allowing immediate hot water when the faucet was turned on. I thought it was a very clever idea. But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. What in the world?! You pay for propane even when you don't use it?! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:26:47 -0600 Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Could likely use some of the plastic barrels that are regularely offered around here for anywhere from free to $10 each. Good solid 40 gallon barrels that originally held some sort of liquid soap. Paint them black and fill them up. But would you want to drink water from one of those barrels? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
I have installed a thermal siphon like that as part of my ongoing upper bath remodel. I ran pex in a loop from the hwt to the 2nd floor bath and back to the basement to a T at the base of the hwt. Not sure how well it works as I don't have that bath operational as yet. Currently doing the tile floor. I tested it however and it seems to work. The idea, of course, was to not waste water in the 2nd floor bath waiting for the hot water to come all the way from the basement. Apparently these use power as the water cools somewhat on its way around the loop so it remains to be seen if the cost of the heating exceeds the savings from not running water down the drain while waiting for the hot water. Probably never truly know the answer to the question. But I like the idea of faster hot water at the tap. Randy On 22/01/2014 4:41 PM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:32:56 -0600 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have hat thoughts of putting an old range boiler tank in the attic (horizontally) at the lake cottage and then feeding from it to the water heater as a preheater. Or, just using a pipe strung under the rafters for a gravity fed loop. It gets rather toasty up there in the summer. For a gravity-fed loop, the heat source has to be at the bottom. When we lived in Colorado Springs, we had a tank-type hot water heater in the basement underneath the kitchen. An insulated copper pipe went from the heater's outlet to the kitchen faucet and then a second copper pipe went from the faucet down to the center leg of a tee that extended the drain valve out from the tank. The cooler, heavier water in the uninsulated pipe caused a circulation that always kept the water at the kitchen faucet hot, allowing immediate hot water when the faucet was turned on. I thought it was a very clever idea. But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. What in the world?! You pay for propane even when you don't use it?! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 4:48 PM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:26:47 -0600 Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Could likely use some of the plastic barrels that are regularely offered around here for anywhere from free to $10 each. Good solid 40 gallon barrels that originally held some sort of liquid soap. Paint them black and fill them up. But would you want to drink water from one of those barrels? Craig No but I don' t generally drink warm water anyway. At the lake, I try to stick to cold beer. (I don't think I spelled regularely right up top either. Still looks funny even in this line. Not sure why spell check does not give me a clue on this.) I would run the water into the barrels to warm up so that it would supplement the little hot water tank. I do assume that any plastic smell would dissipate over time. I assume these barrels could withstand the pressure of the water system. We use a couple of these barrels to catch rain water and they don't smell like plastic. We don't drink the lake water any more anyway. I guess we could if we filtered it etc but we just bring drinking water along or get it from a local well that has tested as good. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] shipping from carlsbad ca
send the guy a padded box for the computer etc with a prepaid label could be mail or fedex that's what apple does for repairs they send you the empty box to return a machine in for repair thanks, xx rick Rick Hawkins ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:50:14 -0600 Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Apparently these use power as the water cools somewhat on its way around the loop so it remains to be seen if the cost of the heating exceeds the savings from not running water down the drain while waiting for the hot water. Probably never truly know the answer to the question. Yes, they do use energy. You could selectively insulate the return pipe just enough to keep the density-difference thermal-syphon running to reduce energy consumption. But I like the idea of faster hot water at the tap. I do, too. With a single-story house on a slab, though, we cannot implement that kind of thing. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
Dieselhead wrote: But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. Sounds like time to start shopping for a tank of your own. I like my providers' policy. If I don't buy 500 gallons between July 1 and June 30, they bill me $30 for a year's rent on the tank. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
I insulated all the hot water lines (copper) in that house. As I mentioned before, the hot water consumption for a family of four (with two teenage/early 20s boys) was something like $12-$18/month using natural gas. At least that was what our bill averaged in the summertime. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:58 PM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:50:14 -0600 Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Apparently these use power as the water cools somewhat on its way around the loop so it remains to be seen if the cost of the heating exceeds the savings from not running water down the drain while waiting for the hot water. Probably never truly know the answer to the question. Yes, they do use energy. You could selectively insulate the return pipe just enough to keep the density-difference thermal-syphon running to reduce energy consumption. But I like the idea of faster hot water at the tap. I do, too. With a single-story house on a slab, though, we cannot implement that kind of thing. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] shipping from carlsbad ca
I've been the recipient of a few of those Apple boxes. HP does the same. Dan On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Rick Hawkins Java wrote: send the guy a padded box for the computer etc with a prepaid label could be mail or fedex that's what apple does for repairs they send you the empty box to return a machine in for repair thanks, xx rick Rick Hawkins ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
I am! It is my civic duty! And it helps assuage my white guilt! I care more than anyone! --R On 1/22/14 5:25 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Rich, I hope you are happy that your tax dollars are helping WM employees by funding their demand on welfare, SNAP, and other government programs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:57:01 -0600 Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 22/01/2014 4:48 PM, Craig wrote: But would you want to drink water from one of those barrels? No but I don't generally drink warm water anyway. At the lake, I try to stick to cold beer. Good idea! (I don't think I spelled regularely right up top either. Still looks funny even in this line. Not sure why spell check does not give me a clue on this.) Regularly. I assume these barrels could withstand the pressure of the water system. That's a big assumption, depending upon your pressure. Kind of like my vacuum-cleaner powered oil change sucker collapsing its plastic oil receptacle, only inverse. We use a couple of these barrels to catch rain water and they don't smell like plastic. That's promising. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wind Chill
Wind chill is simply rate of cooling, it does not change the actual temperature at all. It is a feels like, not a real measurement. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
Almost certainly wax in the fuel. Some warmth and fuel treatment will fix you right up. I put a bottle of RedLine in the 300D since I don't have the TE as a backup until my niece's car is repaired. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
On 22/01/2014 5:25 PM, Craig wrote: I assume these barrels could withstand the pressure of the water system. That's a big assumption, depending upon your pressure. Kind of like my vacuum-cleaner powered oil change sucker collapsing its plastic oil receptacle, only inverse. Pump is down at the lake and has to push the water up another 25 or more vertical feet so pressure up top is not great - probably 30# if we are lucky. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On 1/22/2014 5:20 PM, Craig wrote: On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:24:23 -0500 arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: He thought that the dangers of population growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth precluded progress towards a utopian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia society: The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man. How wrong he was! He was disproved long ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus Since the 1960s when the world was still seeing famines, and new types of rice and corn were developed that were primarily responsible for ending those famines, the population of the world has approximately doubled to roughly 7 billion. At the current rate of population growth, the world will have approximate half again as many people; roughly 10 billion; by 2050. The rate of growth of world population has slowed significantly, such that world population will peak mid-century, and then GO DOWN. Many countries are well below replacement rate (e.g., Japan and Italy) and will implode. Why do people seldom address the ominous facts of population growth and cling to the popular view of 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible? First, because population growth is under control and is not ominous. Second, because the discredited Malthusian argument holds no water, as your example of new types of rice and corn illustrates; man is a creative being, made in the image of his Creator, and has and will continue to work around difficulties. Third, because politics and forms of government, not drought and other weather-related incidents is what is causing famines. Fourth, because they refuse to acknowledge that mankind is inherently bad and can never be perfected, nor can his governments. If you think otherwise, you are either brainwashed, are listening to Chicken Little too much, or both. Craig I'm surprised at your using personal insults in these discussions, Craig. Are you having a bad day? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT on global icing
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:57:45 -0500 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: or whatever off-topic global warming/climatehopeychangey thing you want to call it http://gizmodo.com/a-map-of-the-mile-thick-ice-sheet-that-made-modern-manh-1506501057 Really amazing, isn't it? So why did the ice retreat? Why did it form to begin with? why so much climate change? Well, we can say the ice retreated because it is now warmer than it was. We can also say that it was not because of anything mankind did. Yes, natural variation does cause all of this. Some of the variation is due to the precession of the earth's polar axis. The earth's axis is tilted 23.5 degrees to the plane of its orbit. Consider a line perpendicular to the plane of the earth's orbit and going through the center of the earth. The 23.5 degree tilted axis of the earth rotates around the perpendicular line with a period on the order of 25,000 years. When the earth's axis is pointing at the sun at the point in its orbit that the earth is closest to the sun (perigee), the climate will be the warmest. When the axis is pointing away from the sun at the point in its orbit that the earth is farthest from the sun (apogee), the climate will be the coldest. There are other factors, but I don't remember what they are. I do have graphs of temperature going back over 400,000 years as shown by Greenland and Vostok ice cores, if you are interested. From http://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/geology, linked on the page you linked, Rich, Remnants of an Ice Age The Wisconsin Ice Sheet, the last of many glacial advances that grew after the start of the Pleistocene Era about 1.5 million years ago and which stretched down from eastern Canada (Labrador), advanced as far south as New York City. The Wisconsin Ice Sheet left its marks on the city, depositing rock and debris and accounting for the hilly areas that run straight through the middle of the five boroughs. Geologists believe that the Wisconsin Ice Sheet began its southward journey from Labrador about 90,000 years ago and reached its maximum about 70,000 years ago, forming the Ronkonkoma Moraine on Long Island. During a period of warmth and retreat, it advanced again starting about 45,000 years ago, reaching New York City about 20,500 ago, forming the Harbor Hill Moraine and beginning its retreat about 18,000 years ago. In New York City, the Wisconsin Ice Sheet was 1,000 feet thick (in the Adirondacks it was over 5,000 feet thick and perhaps as much as 10,000 feet thick in Labrador). The Wisconsin Ice Sheet had an impact not only on New York City but also farther north, deepening the bed of the Hudson River Valley (the Hudson River is the southernmost glacial fjord in the Northern Hemisphere), carving out the Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes basins, and leaving its mark on the Adirondack mountains. The glacier also deepened valleys beneath Webster Avenue in the Bronx, and the Harlem and East Rivers. It smoothed the bedrock and left glacial grooves and striations as the advancing glacier dragged rocks over the surface. The Wisconsin Ice Sheet Continues Its Journey The nature of glaciers is that as they grind away at rock underneath them, rock gets picked up and travels along with the glacier. After the glacier melts, the rock debris is left behind. In the New York region, the Wisconsin Ice Sheet deposited tons of gravel, pebbles and sand — moving, for example, boulders from the Palisades to Central Park— plowed up topsoil, and leveled the earth, filling in depressed areas with glacial till. Even after the Wisconsin Ice Sheet stopped advancing south and its southern end was melting at the same rate that the ice advanced, it meant that rock debris was deposited and piled up at the southern edge of the ice sheet. This feature is known as a “terminal moraine” and evidence of it (hundreds of feet high in some places) stretches from the southern end of Staten Island across the Narrows and through Brooklyn and Queens. Graniteville Park on Staten Island is situated in a community that makes direct reference to the geologic deposits that were quarried for trap rock from the 1840s to the 1890s. It continues on the web page with many interesting details. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA?
- Original Message - From: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Carlsbad, CA? It's a laptop, a bunch of cables and a MUX (multiplexer). Not the sort of things you can just dump in a box and expect to make it to the destination intact. Dan The pack n ship places mentioned before have a special box for laptops. They may charge an extra $20 for the box, but it will get the laptop to you intact, plus they guarantee it. You might get his address, call the packnship places near, make arrangements, then have him drop off the stuff. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT on global icing
or whatever off-topic global warming/climatehopeychangey thing you want to call it http://gizmodo.com/a-map-of-the-mile-thick-ice-sheet-that-made-modern-manh-1506501057/@sarah-hedgecock So why did the ice retreat? Why did it form to begin with? why so much climate change? --R Yep. Where I sit was a tropical paradise, 7 different glaciers, and also temperate all without any input from/by people. don't mistake normal variation for special cause variation. Dr. W. Edwards Deming ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] And the hits just keep on coming
I thought that at first too but I can see a couple little bubbles in the clear filter and it I tap the filter they move around good, no sign of thickening there. Plus its been this cold a couple times already and the car started good and ran good. The fact that it won't stay running now makes me think the ice is blocking flow into the canister filter. Either way a good triple dose of Power Service will fix things, it'll lower the gell point and sequester water. I'll let the car idle for awhile and since the block heater has been on all day it'll warm up quick and pump warm fuel/additive mix back into the tank. The only time I've ever seen gell was when I first bought my '85 190D which had summer fuel in December. It'd start and run but wouldn't go in anything above first gear. I let it idle for an hour and the recirculation of warm fuel was enough to drive to a gas station and get a fill of good winter diesel. -Curt you described gelled fuel as it usually happens. I think your water diagnosis is right in this case. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 190D update
Stopped and got a bottle of Power Service (white bottle) on the way home from work, put 16oz (it calls for 8oz per 25 gal of fuel) in the tank and cranked 'er. It started momentarily and died. Further cranking produced a few pops but nothing exciting. Swapped the canister fuel filter, primed it with Power Service. Couple pops and now nothing, it cranks and cranks but no pops, its not even trying to start. The old fuel filter had normal looking fuel in it, no thickening or ice that I could see. On the way home I picked up a drop light with a 75w bulb, I've got that under the hood now with the battery charger, I don't want the battery to go flat and freeze. The engine is warm, radiator hoses are warm to the touch from the block heater being on all day. If its a fuel thing its got to be trouble in the tank. I'm going to let it warm up with the bulb for a little while, if it won't start after my next attempt I'll have it hauled to my Indy tomorrow. A night in his warm garage may make the difference. As may the sloshing around with the Power Service in the tank. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:01:52 -0500 arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: I'm surprised at your using personal insults in these discussions, Craig. Are you having a bad day? You are correct, Gerry, that was uncalled for. I'm sorry. Thank you for calling me on it. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Water Heating
Dieselhead wrote: But the propane use is normally under one tank per year. If we don't use the tank, we have to pay for a full tank anyway. Sounds like time to start shopping for a tank of your own. I like my providers' policy. If I don't buy 500 gallons between July 1 and June 30, they bill me $30 for a year's rent on the tank. Mitch. If we don't buy a 100 lb tank per year, they charge us $100 or more. If I was there whenever it was used, I'd do something. We use about a tank a year, and other people are often there. It is simpler just to put up with it. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 190D update
As a diagnostic, you could try sticking the feed hose to the small fuel filter into a small container of known-good clean fuel. If your car has one, pump the manual priming pump to purge any air and then try to start it. Is there a chance you have an air leak, especially upstream of the lift pump? Just thinking out loud. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:24 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] 190D update Stopped and got a bottle of Power Service (white bottle) on the way home from work, put 16oz (it calls for 8oz per 25 gal of fuel) in the tank and cranked 'er. It started momentarily and died. Further cranking produced a few pops but nothing exciting. Swapped the canister fuel filter, primed it with Power Service. Couple pops and now nothing, it cranks and cranks but no pops, its not even trying to start. The old fuel filter had normal looking fuel in it, no thickening or ice that I could see. On the way home I picked up a drop light with a 75w bulb, I've got that under the hood now with the battery charger, I don't want the battery to go flat and freeze. The engine is warm, radiator hoses are warm to the touch from the block heater being on all day. If its a fuel thing its got to be trouble in the tank. I'm going to let it warm up with the bulb for a little while, if it won't start after my next attempt I'll have it hauled to my Indy tomorrow. A night in his warm garage may make the difference. As may the sloshing around with the Power Service in the tank. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth
At some level (individual, company, country, world), the value of what you produce must exceed the value of what you consume. That's Economics 000. In even more simple terms, you can't consume something until someone has produced it. The concept that pay should be based on an employees' need vs value of their work performed is nonsense. All efforts to artificially increase (aka inflate) wages by fiat do exactly that: stoke the inflationary spiral. When the smoke clears everything just costs more, from wages to food; and nothing has changed. Having observed several of the workers at our local Walmart, they (but not others) are overpaid if they are getting minimum wage. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 4:56 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 85 people own half the worlds wealth Walmart is able to charge so litle because it pays its workers so little. Many of them are on public assistance to make ends meet because WM doesn't pay them a living wage. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
