Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update
DING!I've been thinking that the steering doesn't center well... The rear has been done, the links and subframe bushings both plus the shocks, what else is there back there? I think you're right about having to do all the rubber, I suspect at 165k most things are original... -Curt Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 12:37:57 -0600 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update Message-ID: f85c5ffb-5777-4728-90db-c696f449c...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed If the car follows cracks in the road, something is loose in the front suspension. Ball joints, tie rods, drag link, idler arm bushing, worn steering box. Check the ball joint by jacking the front end up and supporting the lower control arm. Pry upwards on the tire at the bottom -- if there is play in the ball joint, the steering knuckle will move before the control arm, and it will clunk. They also squeak first most of the time, and will rattle on rough pavement. A bad steering damper shows up in two different ways -- excessive vibration, especially straight ahead (the cylinder wears the most right there since one spends most of ones driving time with the wheels pointed straight ahead), and either failure to absorb any shocks at all or excessive stiffness. The latter can cause the car to wander as the wheels will not return to center properly. Finally, bad struts that are dragging when they turn will cause appearant wander for the same reason -- they are excessively stiff and it's difficult to get the front wheels exactly centered -- the car always seems to be drifting one way or the other, and dips in the road will cause them to rotate a bit, too, against the friction. Very annoying, and I just fixed it on my 300D a couple weeks ago with new struts. Amazing difference in driving behavior. If the car is sensitive to crosswinds, likely you have bad links in the rear suspension. This allows the wheel carrier to deflect back to front, causing rear steer, which feels funky. The links I took out Sunday were so bad I could move them sideways once the inner end was loose, drives much better now with just one side fixed! Worn out or shrunken rear tie rod eccentric bushings will let the rear wheels steer under side loads as well. Results in a floaty rear end, cross wind sensitivity, and noise as the wheels vibrate back and forth. Really bad subframe mounts will allow the subframe to move under the car was well, same results Bottom line, I think, is that one should plan to replace everything evenually that has rubber in it. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update
Our 190D, when acquired, was the most truly stinky atrociously-handling vehicle I'd ever driven. Downright scary. Ball joint on one side, tie rod joint on one side, both front struts, both rear shocks, and one link in the back. Transformed the car. No doubt it could be even better had I done more, but those were the definitely bad things. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update
I'd kind of discounted that because it passed inspection and they usually catch stuff like that... Maybe I'll get them to have another look.Oooh, even better maybe I'll have Mienekie or Midas have a look they usually find stuff... The look on their face when I tell them I'll do it myself is great. -Curt Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 18:48:11 -0600 From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update Message-ID: aanlktikd5ygbcnajoavijsqqjgtbpwy0rq_vbbjwb...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, I think the 201 has the steering shock (damper). When my 124 was darty, and I had replaced the rear control arms, and it was still darty, I finally took it to a frame/suspension/alignment shop where they found a very worn lower front ball joint. Replacing both sides made it a VERY nice car to drive! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update
If the car follows cracks in the road, something is loose in the front suspension. Ball joints, tie rods, drag link, idler arm bushing, worn steering box. Check the ball joint by jacking the front end up and supporting the lower control arm. Pry upwards on the tire at the bottom -- if there is play in the ball joint, the steering knuckle will move before the control arm, and it will clunk. They also squeak first most of the time, and will rattle on rough pavement. A bad steering damper shows up in two different ways -- excessive vibration, especially straight ahead (the cylinder wears the most right there since one spends most of ones driving time with the wheels pointed straight ahead), and either failure to absorb any shocks at all or excessive stiffness. The latter can cause the car to wander as the wheels will not return to center properly. Finally, bad struts that are dragging when they turn will cause appearant wander for the same reason -- they are excessively stiff and it's difficult to get the front wheels exactly centered -- the car always seems to be drifting one way or the other, and dips in the road will cause them to rotate a bit, too, against the friction. Very annoying, and I just fixed it on my 300D a couple weeks ago with new struts. Amazing difference in driving behavior. If the car is sensitive to crosswinds, likely you have bad links in the rear suspension. This allows the wheel carrier to deflect back to front, causing rear steer, which feels funky. The links I took out Sunday were so bad I could move them sideways once the inner end was loose, drives much better now with just one side fixed! Worn out or shrunken rear tie rod eccentric bushings will let the rear wheels steer under side loads as well. Results in a floaty rear end, cross wind sensitivity, and noise as the wheels vibrate back and forth. Really bad subframe mounts will allow the subframe to move under the car was well, same results Bottom line, I think, is that one should plan to replace everything evenually that has rubber in it. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] '84 190D update
When we last left the '84 190D it'd been shipped off to my Indy to un-screwup the rear subframe mounts. Got it back today and the handling was back to where it was before I tried the subframe mounts, maybe slightly better. To recap: if this car were a snowmobile I'd say it darts. The feeling is a little bit like getting blown around in the wind. Subframe mounts have been replaced, rear links have been replaced, rear shocks are new. So I'm dammed tired of this and out of desperation I decided to pull off the 14 wheels/tires on the car and switch to my 15 winter wheels. In doing so I realized the old tires were mismatched front vs rear but I also realized whatever asshole put the wheels on last was a gorilla with the air gun. On the rear I've already got 2 stripped lug holes, one on each side and on the front driver's there was on I COULD NOT GET OFF. Seriously, I've got a lug wrench from an old BMW, the crank type, and I jumped on it for like 10 minutes and it wouldn't move... Finally took it to a friend's place and used his very nice Mac impact gun to buzz it off. Anyway put on the winter tires/wheels and after the flat spots (they were on the '85 which sat a few months) rounded back out I can feel a SIGNIFICANT improvement. The car is driveable now at 65mph (fastest I could go where I was) where it was iffy at 50mph before. This makes the car commute ready more or less. My guess is the gorilla with the impact gun bent one or more of the wheels or I had a bad tire or two. I don't really care, I'm going to get rid of the 14s as I have 2 full sets of 15s. Its not perfect, still a little soft/darty, but its windy today so its hard to really tell. Does a 201 have a steering shock? I'm wondering if that could be the issue now, the front end is otherwise tight. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '84 190D update
Yes, I think the 201 has the steering shock (damper). When my 124 was darty, and I had replaced the rear control arms, and it was still darty, I finally took it to a frame/suspension/alignment shop where they found a very worn lower front ball joint. Replacing both sides made it a VERY nice car to drive! On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: When we last left the '84 190D it'd been shipped off to my Indy to un-screwup the rear subframe mounts. Got it back today and the handling was back to where it was before I tried the subframe mounts, maybe slightly better. To recap: if this car were a snowmobile I'd say it darts. The feeling is a little bit like getting blown around in the wind. Subframe mounts have been replaced, rear links have been replaced, rear shocks are new. So I'm dammed tired of this and out of desperation I decided to pull off the 14 wheels/tires on the car and switch to my 15 winter wheels. In doing so I realized the old tires were mismatched front vs rear but I also realized whatever asshole put the wheels on last was a gorilla with the air gun. On the rear I've already got 2 stripped lug holes, one on each side and on the front driver's there was on I COULD NOT GET OFF. Seriously, I've got a lug wrench from an old BMW, the crank type, and I jumped on it for like 10 minutes and it wouldn't move... Finally took it to a friend's place and used his very nice Mac impact gun to buzz it off. Anyway put on the winter tires/wheels and after the flat spots (they were on the '85 which sat a few months) rounded back out I can feel a SIGNIFICANT improvement. The car is driveable now at 65mph (fastest I could go where I was) where it was iffy at 50mph before. This makes the car commute ready more or less. My guess is the gorilla with the impact gun bent one or more of the wheels or I had a bad tire or two. I don't really care, I'm going to get rid of the 14s as I have 2 full sets of 15s. Its not perfect, still a little soft/darty, but its windy today so its hard to really tell. Does a 201 have a steering shock? I'm wondering if that could be the issue now, the front end is otherwise tight. -Curt-- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
