Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
I would bet money on a bad head gasket between 4 and 5. Repeat your test a few times, cold and hot just for comparison. If the numbers continue to match between the two the gasket is likely at fault. Mike On Feb 16, 2012 6:28 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. Note: the car does not burn any oil, nor does it lose any coolant and the glow plugs and circuit are all OK. I took the car to a M-B indy in town and they suggested possibly low compression, so I had them do a compression check on a cold engine and they obtained the following compression check numbers: #1 Cyl. 430 psi #2 “445 “ #3 “430 “ #4 “320 “ #5 “320 “ This shop said the M-B spec for the maximum pressure deviation between cylinders should be no more than 43.51 psi and they question either sticking oil rings in #4 #5 or misadjusted valves. Since I do my own valve adjustments on both my '84 300D and my '85 300TD, I'm convinced the last valve adjustment (1000 mi. ago) is OK and the rough idle and serious smoking issue was present when my brother owned the car, but it's easy enough to check the valve clearances which I plan on doing tomorrow. Also note, for those who may not remember, at the suggestion of possibly the best M-B mechanic in the Pbgh. area, I replaced the valve stem seals on the 300TD in summer 2011. Any suggestions? G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. Note: the car does not burn any oil, nor does it lose any coolant and the glow plugs and circuit are all OK. I took the car to a M-B indy in town and they suggested possibly low compression, so I had them do a compression check on a cold engine and they obtained the following compression check numbers: #1 Cyl. 430 psi #2 “445 “ #3 “430 “ #4 “320 “ #5 “320 “ This shop said the M-B spec for the maximum pressure deviation between cylinders should be no more than 43.51 psi and they question either sticking oil rings in #4 #5 or misadjusted valves. Since I do my own valve adjustments on both my '84 300D and my '85 300TD, I'm convinced the last valve adjustment (1000 mi. ago) is OK and the rough idle and serious smoking issue was present when my brother owned the car, but it's easy enough to check the valve clearances which I plan on doing tomorrow. Also note, for those who may not remember, at the suggestion of possibly the best M-B mechanic in the Pbgh. area, I replaced the valve stem seals on the 300TD in summer 2011. Any suggestions? G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
I hope it's not a failing head gasket between 4 and 5. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
White smoke is unburnt fuel. Check the glow plugs. Even if one or two are bad, the light may not indicate it. I had the same problem recently. Rusty will price match whoever has the lowest price. Currently that is Rock Auto. Buy all five, I had two bad ones, and another went bad a week later. Marshall liked Beru plugs, Rusty can probably get those too, but they won't be cheap. Rick Sent from my iPhone. On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:28 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
I forgot to say how. Pull the plug off of the glow plug relay that goes to the glow plugs. Test for resistance. Bosch glow plugs should read 0.6 ohms or there abouts with an accurate meter. Beru will read a little lower (I have Bosch in one car, Beru in the other.) Any that read open or over 1 ohm are bad and need replaced. Rick Sent from my iPhone. On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: Check the glow plugs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
Glow plugs. On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:28 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. Note: the car does not burn any oil, nor does it lose any coolant and the glow plugs and circuit are all OK. I took the car to a M-B indy in town and they suggested possibly low compression, so I had them do a compression check on a cold engine and they obtained the following compression check numbers: #1 Cyl. 430 psi #2 “445 “ #3 “430 “ #4 “320 “ #5 “320 “ This shop said the M-B spec for the maximum pressure deviation between cylinders should be no more than 43.51 psi and they question either sticking oil rings in #4 #5 or misadjusted valves. Since I do my own valve adjustments on both my '84 300D and my '85 300TD, I'm convinced the last valve adjustment (1000 mi. ago) is OK and the rough idle and serious smoking issue was present when my brother owned the car, but it's easy enough to check the valve clearances which I plan on doing tomorrow. Also note, for those who may not remember, at the suggestion of possibly the best M-B mechanic in the Pbgh. area, I replaced the valve stem seals on the 300TD in summer 2011. Any suggestions? G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX '82 300SD '01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
Really? We're not talking crazy big money to begin with. Rusty's gotta eat too. -Curt Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:37:05 -0600 From: Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup Message-ID: snt0-p7-eas114c638f54a06c42948ab00dd...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii White smoke is unburnt fuel. Check the glow plugs. Even if one or two are bad, the light may not indicate it. I had the same problem recently. Rusty will price match whoever has the lowest price. Currently that is Rock Auto. Buy all five, I had two bad ones, and another went bad a week later. Marshall liked Beru plugs, Rusty can probably get those too, but they won't be cheap. Rick Sent from my iPhone. On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:28 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
Set the valves to about 0.010 extra clearance and drive for a bit. If they were tight, you can get carbon buildup on the stems, keeping them from closing properly. They will go tight again very quickly as the carbon wears off, and you still don't have them closing properly. The other thing I would suspect is a bad head gasket. Not a huge endeavor on a 617, easier than on the 603. One final possibility is bad spray pattern on #4 and #5, leading to carboned up rings. Good injectors should clear that up. Peter On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:28 PM, glenn brown wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. Note: the car does not burn any oil, nor does it lose any coolant and the glow plugs and circuit are all OK. I took the car to a M-B indy in town and they suggested possibly low compression, so I had them do a compression check on a cold engine and they obtained the following compression check numbers: #1 Cyl. 430 psi #2 “445 “ #3 “430 “ #4 “320 “ #5 “320 “ This shop said the M-B spec for the maximum pressure deviation between cylinders should be no more than 43.51 psi and they question either sticking oil rings in #4 #5 or misadjusted valves. Since I do my own valve adjustments on both my '84 300D and my '85 300TD, I'm convinced the last valve adjustment (1000 mi. ago) is OK and the rough idle and serious smoking issue was present when my brother owned the car, but it's easy enough to check the valve clearances which I plan on doing tomorrow. Also note, for those who may not remember, at the suggestion of possibly the best M-B mechanic in the Pbgh. area, I replaced the valve stem seals on the 300TD in summer 2011. Any suggestions? G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking upon cold startup
White smoke is unburned fuel, or water. Since it goes away after a couple min. it is 90% liklihood to be unburned fuel. That indicates either low compression, or bad glow plugs or the oddball things, bad nozzle, broken prechamber tip, bad headgasket between the two cyl. or the like. Compression tests are always suspect. on the iron head Diesels, valve adjustment is first. Even if you are sure it is right, check it. Compression should be checked with the engine warm, after a good italian tuneup. Repeatability is the key. I want to see virtually identical results at least 3 times. A cyl leakdown test is more indicative, as it will show WHERE the compression is leaking. If you have an old injector nozzle holder and an old injector line, you can make a rudimentary CLT. take out the nozzle from the holder, and remove the pintle, and reassemble. This will allow air from the top to the outlet of the nozzle. Cut off an old injector line and put one piece on the nozzle holder. Attach an air hose to the other end of the line. take out one nozzle from the engine, install the CLT, apply air, and listen to the intake (air cleaner removed) the exhaust pipe (at the back) and the crankcase breather tube for airflow. If you test the good cyls first, you will get an idea for normal.Higher airflows on the weak cyl will tell you if which valve or if the rings are leaking. It is not as precise as a Sun CLT, but you can accomplish the same, except the % leakage. Before you do a CLT, be sure to have new nozzle seals on hand. They are single use. White smoke is unburnt fuel. Check the glow plugs. Even if one or two are bad, the light may not indicate it. I had the same problem recently. Rusty will price match whoever has the lowest price. Currently that is Rock Auto. Buy all five, I had two bad ones, and another went bad a week later. Marshall liked Beru plugs, Rusty can probably get those too, but they won't be cheap. Rick Sent from my iPhone. On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:28 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I've posted a query about this previously but didn't obtain much to look for regarding my '85 300TD rough idle and serious smoking (white) upon cold startup. After ~ 2 min. warmup, the idle smooths out and the smoking ceases. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
