Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Any opinion on Pirelli Scorpion Winter?

Local indy tire shop carries this line. They are good guys so I'd prefer
to spend my money there vs. online or chain store if it's not a bad
choice.

Allan

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  I've had very good luck with just the cheapest tire store snow tires. My 
> 240Ds were the finest snow cars I've ever had when properly equipped. I 
> suspect a 617 turbo car would be a little less drivable due to the extra 
> power but should still do well.
> "All Season" tires can be okay, my 2015 Jetta has Falken branded ones that do 
> pretty well but nothing beats dedicated snows.
> Interestingly the General Grabber AT2 I put on the 2010 Dodge RAM 1500 are 
> also excellent in the snow but they carry the snow mountain symbol. Two of 
> the four are now worn out and I was disappointed to find they've been 
> discontinued. I hope the Grabber 3s are as good.
> -Curt
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2020, 8:57:18 PM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
>  
>  > I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
>> the tires have been my downfall.
>
> In all probability.  I swear by Hakkapeliittaa studded snow tires, the
> difference is truly amazing and they last forever.  (I get 7-10 years
> out of a set.)
>
> -- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Tires Plus, a national tire retailer, has a shop nearby that use on occasion. 
They actually have a spreader bar for doing Mercedes alignments, to give you an 
idea of their skill set. I also take advantage of their in house credit card, 
as they’ll often give you 6 or 12 months same as cash. Better to let someone 
else be the bank and pay them before they charge you interest.

Right now they have a really good promotion on Firestone tires, with $100 spiff 
if you use their in house account. They have a very limited choice of Firestone 
tires, so I did my due diligence and found one (Firestone “Weathergrip”) that 
is an all season but highly rated in snow. So I make an appointment to get the 
tires installed and the alignment checked on the 24th, the day after my in 
house account closes (gain a month on them, too!)

The next day (Saturday) I get an email for their scheduling system saying my 
appointment has been cancelled and I need to call the store to find out why.

So I call and talk to “Ghee”, a guy that’s been a service writer for them for 
some years.

“So Ghee, why did they cancel my appointment?”

“We don’t do snow tires.”

“They aren’t snow tires. Please tell me where in the description it says “snow 
tires””.

“Well, we’ve never sold these before and there aren’t any in a 100 mile radius.”

“What about the warehouse?”

“They’re closed on the weekend. I’ll call them Monday, but I don’t think  I can 
get them.”

“Then why do you advertise them on the web site?”



Anyway, I’ll wait to hear from Ghee tomorrow about my “snow tires”.

Understand that this will be a summer car, and the likelihood that it will ever 
be driven in snow is astronomically small. However, if I can get an AS tire 
that’s good in snow, I’ll go that route to cover my bottom.

-D

> On Oct 18, 2020, at 6:21 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've had very good luck with just the cheapest tire store snow tires. My 
> 240Ds were the finest snow cars I've ever had when properly equipped. I 
> suspect a 617 turbo car would be a little less drivable due to the extra 
> power but should still do well.
> "All Season" tires can be okay, my 2015 Jetta has Falken branded ones that do 
> pretty well but nothing beats dedicated snows.
> Interestingly the General Grabber AT2 I put on the 2010 Dodge RAM 1500 are 
> also excellent in the snow but they carry the snow mountain symbol. Two of 
> the four are now worn out and I was disappointed to find they've been 
> discontinued. I hope the Grabber 3s are as good.
> -Curt
> 
>On Monday, October 12, 2020, 8:57:18 PM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
>> I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
>> the tires have been my downfall.
> 
> In all probability.  I swear by Hakkapeliittaa studded snow tires, the
> difference is truly amazing and they last forever.  (I get 7-10 years
> out of a set.)
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've had very good luck with just the cheapest tire store snow tires. My 240Ds 
were the finest snow cars I've ever had when properly equipped. I suspect a 617 
turbo car would be a little less drivable due to the extra power but should 
still do well.
"All Season" tires can be okay, my 2015 Jetta has Falken branded ones that do 
pretty well but nothing beats dedicated snows.
Interestingly the General Grabber AT2 I put on the 2010 Dodge RAM 1500 are also 
excellent in the snow but they carry the snow mountain symbol. Two of the four 
are now worn out and I was disappointed to find they've been discontinued. I 
hope the Grabber 3s are as good.
-Curt

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 8:57:18 PM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 > I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
> the tires have been my downfall.

In all probability.  I swear by Hakkapeliittaa studded snow tires, the
difference is truly amazing and they last forever.  (I get 7-10 years
out of a set.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I have been driving the $675ML500 (well, $700 now that I spent $25 on a 
new ignition switch) a bit the last few days and I concur.  It is bouncy 
and twitchy on bumpy roads (like my driveway), very stiff suspension, 
tall, short wheelbase.  On smooth roads it is not bad but as soon as it 
hits a bump in the road or a dip or hole of some sort, it bounces all 
over again.  I find it somewhat tiring to drive just from the fairly 
short trips I have taken.  I recall the former wife's 164 being softer 
and less harsh in the steering and suspension, so it was fairly 
comfortable on longer drives.


I went on a little ramble on Sunday, went down a dirt road to visit some 
friends, we had big rains Saturday evening so there were some large 
fairly deep pits filled with water, the sand gets soft but not really 
muddy, I was quite impressed with how it went right through those spots, 
I could feel the 4m pulling it along but there was no torque steering or 
anything like that as I have noticed on my 4WD trucks and the old Jeep 
Cherokee I had -- a lot more "agricultural" feel to the systems.  Seems 
a pretty refined system.


The 4m on the 211 E320 wagon is fairly not noticeable although I have 
driven it a bit through a wet field (grass) and I could feel it pulling 
right along on the wet grass, so that was gratifying. The 210 might have 
gotten mired up in that.


-_FT

On 10/13/20 9:13 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I would agree with your observations on the W163. Definitely more of a truck 
than a car.

-D


On Oct 13, 2020, at 9:11 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
wrote:


Interesting...have they been trying to sell it since Thanksgiving, or did they 
sell it, buy it back and list it at a higher price?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=562277598


As for the W163...after 3 years and 3000 miles, I think it's like a 210, but shorter, 
bouncier, heavier (body on frame), with a two range transfer case and C-class 
interior. Anybody disagree with that?<2003 
wagon.png>___
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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I would agree with your observations on the W163. Definitely more of a truck 
than a car.

-D

> On Oct 13, 2020, at 9:11 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting...have they been trying to sell it since Thanksgiving, or did 
> they sell it, buy it back and list it at a higher price?
> 
> https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=562277598
> 
> 
> As for the W163...after 3 years and 3000 miles, I think it's like a 210, but 
> shorter, bouncier, heavier (body on frame), with a two range transfer case 
> and C-class interior. Anybody disagree with that?<2003 
> wagon.png>___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>The used car market is a real b*tch right now. Slim pickings everywhere.


Wait until after Thanksgiving. Between Thanksgiving and tax return season there 
should be some deals to be found.


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Please do. I am looking for a 4-matic for SWMBO.


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: October 12, 2020 9:16 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; d...@penoff.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: dwight.gi...@gmail.com; okiet...@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

Let me say this very clearly- 4matic is worth it.
I can say more if any one wants.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Let me say this very clearly- 4matic is worth it.
I can say more if any one wants.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 10:11 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Curley McLain via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Bull crap:  "My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow."
> > They were only incompetent in schnee because they had bad tires on. The
> > 123 or 126 does not choose the tires it is on.
> >
> > As Jim says, tires and weight in the right places are key, as with any
> > vehicle.
>
> As they say in the fine print, "your experience may differ."
>
> Willing to believe it's the tires, however I also feel like the asphalt
> used around here is somehow very slippery. Even on just a rainy day I'll
> get wheel spin driving up a slope, or starting uphill at a 4-way stop.
>
> Once in the winter I was driving back home from Nashville, IN in my
> 300D. It had been snowing for about an hour. There's a fairly long
> curving downhill grade at one point. Familiar with it, I crested the top
> at about 5 mph, and could not control the car on the downhill. Could not
> stop, the wheels locked at the slightest brake application and the car
> slid by its own weight. I was able to veer to the right and got two
> wheels on the gravel shoulder, got some traction, and drove down the
> rest of the hill like that.
>
> Allan
>
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Curley McLain via Mercedes  writes:

> Bull crap:  "My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow."
> They were only incompetent in schnee because they had bad tires on. The 
> 123 or 126 does not choose the tires it is on.
>
> As Jim says, tires and weight in the right places are key, as with any 
> vehicle.

As they say in the fine print, "your experience may differ."

Willing to believe it's the tires, however I also feel like the asphalt
used around here is somehow very slippery. Even on just a rainy day I'll
get wheel spin driving up a slope, or starting uphill at a 4-way stop.

Once in the winter I was driving back home from Nashville, IN in my
300D. It had been snowing for about an hour. There's a fairly long
curving downhill grade at one point. Familiar with it, I crested the top
at about 5 mph, and could not control the car on the downhill. Could not
stop, the wheels locked at the slightest brake application and the car
slid by its own weight. I was able to veer to the right and got two
wheels on the gravel shoulder, got some traction, and drove down the
rest of the hill like that.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
> the tires have been my downfall.

In all probability.  I swear by Hakkapeliittaa studded snow tires, the
difference is truly amazing and they last forever.  (I get 7-10 years
out of a set.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Bull crap:  "My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow."
They were only incompetent in schnee because they had bad tires on. The 
123 or 126 does not choose the tires it is on.


As Jim says, tires and weight in the right places are key, as with any 
vehicle.


My 123 went everywhere in the schnee (Farstone schnee tars)
My first SDL, when I put used Blizzaks on all 4 corners was like driving 
on dry pavement, until the schnee gets so deep the body floats, causing 
the tires to lose contact with the road.   Uphill, down it did not matter.

Tires!  The most important insurance policy for your vehicle!

Daughter's 124 vergasser on Blizzaks was also unstoppable in schnee.

Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
October 12, 2020 at 5:07 PM

My W115 was great in the snow. Proper snow tires, and maybe
a little bit of trunk weight, are the keys. For the hills, you also need
some brass balls sometimes. Momentum going up the hills is a
requirement.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I drove the 107, 115, 123, and 126 in the occasional ice and snow in OK,
with plenty of hills. Absolutely the worst place was our street and
driveway. I always managed, but it was close sometimes, and a few times I
had to leave one in the street because I couldn't get it up the drive.
Then I got the 2000 ML350. It is the only car (including a Saab Sonnett
III) that had NO problem climbing and iced over drive. It just went right
on up like nothing was wrong. Stopping was no better than anything else
though.
I was (am) very impressed by the ML 4matic - and that was the first
version. I out ran several Jeeps and 4WD pickups in OKC on the hills at
lights with the Saab, back in the day, but the ML was hands down better.
I've never driven a 4matic sedan - don't know how they compare.
We now have the all wheel drive Subaru, but we haven't had significant ice
or snow since we got it to compare to the ML.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:20 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Jim Cathey  writes:
>
> >> My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow.
> >
> > My W115 was great in the snow.  Proper snow tires, and maybe
> > a little bit of trunk weight, are the keys.  For the hills, you also need
> > some brass balls sometimes.  Momentum going up the hills is a
> > requirement.
>
> I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
> the tires have been my downfall. Lower-end all-season radials just have
> zero grip in the snow, especially wet icy snow.
>
> Allan
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Jim Cathey  writes:

>> My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow.
>
> My W115 was great in the snow.  Proper snow tires, and maybe
> a little bit of trunk weight, are the keys.  For the hills, you also need
> some brass balls sometimes.  Momentum going up the hills is a
> requirement.

I've tried sandbags in the trunk. It helps, but only a little. I think
the tires have been my downfall. Lower-end all-season radials just have
zero grip in the snow, especially wet icy snow.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow.

My W115 was great in the snow.  Proper snow tires, and maybe
a little bit of trunk weight, are the keys.  For the hills, you also need
some brass balls sometimes.  Momentum going up the hills is a
requirement.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Good points, Allen, however, I know where you live and fortunately I won’t have 
the challenges you do as far as hills.

Based on your experiences it sounds like 4Matic would be beneficial anyway.

Thanks!

-D

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you're talking about Indiana specifically, I can relate my
> experiences.
> 
> My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow. Especially with
> the diesel torque they spin out very easily. Out in the county there are
> some hills that have created predicaments for me more than once.
> 
> Same thing has happened with my FWD Volvo XC90, though at the time I was
> also being limited by the traction control. I didn't realize it could be
> turned off and that might have helped me get a better running start at
> the hill. As it was I was close to home so I had one of the boys come
> with the 4WD Frontier and a chain which pulled the Volvo and itself up
> the same hill without issue.
> 
> The one thing missing from the above is good snow tires. I've never
> sprung for that expense, though the Volvo needs new front tires before
> the winter so I will probably do that this winter.
> 
> The AWD Element, prior to its current transmission issues, has also been
> good in snow and has all-season tires.
> 
> So I would say if you're not getting the 4Matic, at least plan to get
> good snow tires.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
>> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
>> 
>> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, 
>> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m 
>> overemphasizing the value of it.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -D
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

If you're talking about Indiana specifically, I can relate my
experiences.

My RWD diesels (W116 and W123) are useless in the snow. Especially with
the diesel torque they spin out very easily. Out in the county there are
some hills that have created predicaments for me more than once.

Same thing has happened with my FWD Volvo XC90, though at the time I was
also being limited by the traction control. I didn't realize it could be
turned off and that might have helped me get a better running start at
the hill. As it was I was close to home so I had one of the boys come
with the 4WD Frontier and a chain which pulled the Volvo and itself up
the same hill without issue.

The one thing missing from the above is good snow tires. I've never
sprung for that expense, though the Volvo needs new front tires before
the winter so I will probably do that this winter.

The AWD Element, prior to its current transmission issues, has also been
good in snow and has all-season tires.

So I would say if you're not getting the 4Matic, at least plan to get
good snow tires.

Allan


Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
>
> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, 
> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m 
> overemphasizing the value of it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

04 would still be m112 but 3.7L. Still just as reliable. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Probably not that often, but if I’m going to find a car for there, I would 
> prefer it to be equipped for the climate in case we’re up there in the winter.
> 
> I’ve been looking at MLs around here, too. Almost nothing. There’s a 2004 
> ML350 I could get for a good price, but it’s got 140k on it, meaning the 
> balance shaft is probably about ready to pop. I don’t need/want/have time for 
> projects right now.
> 
> The used car market is a real b*tch right now. Slim pickings everywhere.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
>> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
>> 
>> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, 
>> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m 
>> overemphasizing the value of it.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -D
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Thanks, Mitch! Didn’t know that, just made the assumption since it’s badged as 
an ML350.

I may check it out.

-D


> On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-10-12 16:03, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Probably not that often, but if I’m going to find a car for there, I
>> would prefer it to be equipped for the climate in case we’re up there
>> in the winter.
>> I’ve been looking at MLs around here, too. Almost nothing. There’s a
>> 2004 ML350 I could get for a good price, but it’s got 140k on it,
>> meaning the balance shaft is probably about ready to pop. I don’t
>> need/want/have time for projects right now.
> 
> Check the data card.
> My 2003 has the 3.7L M112, with the ignition coils that never make it to 300k.
> As best as I can recall, they never put the junk 3.5 in the W163, just W211 
> and W164.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-10-12 16:03, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Probably not that often, but if I’m going to find a car for there, I
would prefer it to be equipped for the climate in case we’re up there
in the winter.

I’ve been looking at MLs around here, too. Almost nothing. There’s a
2004 ML350 I could get for a good price, but it’s got 140k on it,
meaning the balance shaft is probably about ready to pop. I don’t
need/want/have time for projects right now.


Check the data card.
My 2003 has the 3.7L M112, with the ignition coils that never make it to 
300k.
As best as I can recall, they never put the junk 3.5 in the W163, just 
W211 and W164.


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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

I love my 2005  E320 4matic. I have owned many 4WD & AWD over the years &
this is the best. I really don't meed it here but it also handles well in
the rain. Only problem i have had was bearing problem in transfer case.
Dealer fixed it for 300.00.

Has 184 k miles.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 4:54 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the
> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
>
> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car,
> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m
> overemphasizing the value of it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Probably not that often, but if I’m going to find a car for there, I would 
prefer it to be equipped for the climate in case we’re up there in the winter.

I’ve been looking at MLs around here, too. Almost nothing. There’s a 2004 ML350 
I could get for a good price, but it’s got 140k on it, meaning the balance 
shaft is probably about ready to pop. I don’t need/want/have time for projects 
right now.

The used car market is a real b*tch right now. Slim pickings everywhere.

-D



> On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:54 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
> 
> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, 
> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m 
> overemphasizing the value of it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -D
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

How often will you be using it in the ice and snow? Maybe you should look at an 
ML?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 3:54 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
> 4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?
> 
> I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, 
> but it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m 
> overemphasizing the value of it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -D
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] 4Matic - Is It Worth It?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m curious to know from those who have experienced it - do you think the 
4Matic is worthwhile in inclement weather or northern climates with snow?

I ask because I was considering this as a requirement for my northern car, but 
it’s narrowed the choices so much that I’m wondering if I’m overemphasizing the 
value of it.

Thanks,

-D
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