[MBZ] A Father's Letter
A tragedy occurred locally recently... I may have posted it here... in which a young man was crushed by his car while changing his oil. I posted it as a cautionary safety public service message in several BMW and Mercedes forums. Unbeknownst to me, word of my post apparently reached the family of the young man, and last night his father responded to my post. it is a heart-breaking story, but worth reading, and I offer it in its entirety, including my response to him. Stay safe out there, fellas. I am Christian Klorczyk's father Good Day, I feel that I must respond to this post for the sake of accuracy, the honor of my son and family name and also to attempt to save other lives. Lynne and I are the parents of three sons, Frederick III, Christian, Parker and our adopted sons, his twin brother Jordan, Dimitri and Dan - all carguys. As stated in the article The 21-year-old died Friday after a BMW he was working on collapsed on him in the family garage. Fred Klorczyk said that a floor jack likely failed while his son (Christian) was under the car changing the oil. Jeff Johnson did a great job on the article on our son, brother and friend and I thank him for that. Jeff was a true gentleman who talked to us for hours in our darkest times to get an accurate depiction of our son and family. However, and unfortunately we do not have it on tape, nor is Jeff a gearhead and doesn't really understand jacks, jackstands and multiple layers of safety. I never said, nor is it accurate to say that a floor jack likely failed... Christian is an experienced mechanic who started working on cars and following Formula 1 when he was a small child. He and our whole family witnessed Ayrton Magic Senna die at Tamburello 15 years ago. Yes, Christian was only six at the time and he would wake all of us up at 6:30AM to watch the pre-race show in Italy on satellite. Christian is a true car guy as are his brothers and friends. My business is in the most safety conscious market in the world - nuclear boats, nuclear ships and nuclear power plants. That mentality is my life - has been since I was a kid engineer out of school. Ask any of my employees how I feel about safety. They have the right to stop any job and call me at anytime as no one is to ever get injured on our jobsites. This naturally carried over to my homelife. By the way, my father was a large machine mechanic by trade and a gearhead by avocation. No one would use the wrong tools - we have them all and all are of quality. No one in my garage or driveway would ever go under a car with only a jack of any kind holding it up. The jack elevates the car, jackstands support at proper points while working underneath and the jack is removed to improve accessibility. Period. Block the wheels if necessary. Emergency brake on. Car in gear. A lift would be better but we just were not at that point in our lives yet. Christian had the right front tire off so that he could shine his double halogen lights on the work area and see clearly. He also had that tire/wheel under the right front rotor as an extra measure of safety as is a habit of ours when possible. He had four ton Craftsman jackstands in use. Two were just bought at Christmas when I sent him to buy a new jack since ours is getting to be five years old. Hydraulic cylinders and seals degrade over time. He didn't buy the jack since he felt what Sears, etc., had were junk so he bought more four ton stands but without safety pins. I did not realize there were redundant safety stands until... it was too late. Christian was using my father's creeper for the first time. He found the creeper when cleaning the garage over Christmas. When he applied torque to the ratchet handle to break the plug loose, he experienced the law of physics of equal and opposite reaction. As the plug broke loose, the creeper did also in a direction opposite to the torque vector Christian applied. Some part of Christian's body, some part of the creeper, the mallet beside him, something - we have no video, just supposition and theory... tripped the right front jackstand lever inadvertantly from the underside and a ton of the BMW E46 3 series xi crushed his chest and his right cheekbone. He never took, or could even attempt to take a second breath. Death was immediate and painless. If I were beside him at the time this occurred I could have done nothing to save him. This has been verified by five friends of mine who are doctors. I used the floorjack Christian used to elevate the car to get the car off of him. It was parallel to the car just as he would place it when he removed it from the jackpoint. I had to engage the cylinder with clockwise rotation which tells me Christian removed it per proper procedure. I had the jack underneath and car off him in seconds. Jackstands were under before I crawled from under the valance while Lynne called 911. Lynne came under with me from
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
A sad story indeed. My jack stands are the same low-cost, made-in-China ratchet type... it's very hard for me to imagine that bumping the handle with the ratchet engaged and under load could dislodge it. I wonder if maybe the whole stand was cocked a bit and bumping it knocked it over. However all things are possible I guess... certainly has me considering buying some better jackstands. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry --- From: toms cat1 tomsc...@hotmail.com A tragedy occurred locally recently... I may have posted it here... in which a young man was crushed by his car while changing his oil. I posted it as a cautionary safety public service message in several BMW and Mercedes forums. Unbeknownst to me, word of my post apparently reached the family of the young man, and last night his father responded to my post. it is a heart-breaking story, but worth reading, and I offer it in its entirety, including my response to him. Stay safe out there, fellas. I am Christian Klorczyk's father Good Day, I feel that I must respond to this post for the sake of accuracy, the honor of my son and family name and also to attempt to save other lives.snip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
I have been looking on-line for pin-type stands, and finding very few in the 3 - 6 ton range, and the heavier duty ones are $300 each and up. I did find these, http://www.mile-x.com/esco-10497-3-ton-jack-stand.aspx ESCO seems to be an Ohio based company, anyone familiar with them or these stands? The tripod design would seem to be very stable. Allan On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:59 -0400, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: I did find these, http://www.mile-x.com/esco-10497-3-ton-jack-stand.aspx ESCO seems to be an Ohio based company, anyone familiar with them or these stands? The tripod design would seem to be very stable. I did a lot of searching for good jackstands about ten years ago, and those Escos seemed to be about the best you could get. At the time they were made in the US. I have four of them and two that I bought more recently, which are made in China, supposedly to the same quality standards. (They look exactly like the domestic ones, for what that's worth.) Previously I had a set of Craftsman stands, the ratcheting kind where all the weight in use rests on the tooth or pawl. I started looking for new ones when the pawl on one of the Craftsmans one day sheared right off , instantly collapsing the stand to its lowest position. Fortunately nobody was under the car and I hadn't yet taken the wheels off. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Having used tripod type stands for years before cheaper square stands became available, I found that is was safer when the stands were not oriented in the same direction and that no more than two tripod stands be used at a time. The problems I had were situations that occurred when I was pulling a breakover handle and the stands would tend to tip up. I had to watch them closely while putting any kind of lateral force on the car. I ultimately cut 2x 4x 12 pieces of treated wood and drove in dowel pins so the 12x 12 pieces could be nested together for 2 (actuallly 1 1/2) increments of height. Using two wood block assemblies and two tripod jack stands seemed to be fairly safe. I haven't had any tipping problems with the square base pin type stands from Autozone. Gerry From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu I have been looking on-line for pin-type stands, and finding very few in the 3 - 6 ton range, and the heavier duty ones are $300 each and up. I did find these, http://www.mile-x.com/esco-10497-3-ton-jack-stand.aspx ESCO seems to be an Ohio based company, anyone familiar with them or these stands? The tripod design would seem to be very stable. Allan On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:59 -0400, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
I've got a set of the ratchet type but I only ever use them on the lowest setting which is about as high as my floor jack will lift... -Curt Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:59:54 -0400 From: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter Message-ID: 1334709B885F4D59A4259115C26E71DF@PC466116028214 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Several possible causes but the final answer is that who ever is going to crawl under needs to be satisfied that they are locked and steady. I can't say that I think the folks that sold them should be sued. There are so many variables with things like this. If the ratchet type scares you, then don't use them. I have had no issue but I am very careful that they are locked and there is enough weight on them to ensure they stay put. They could break but I have not experienced that issue as yet. I am often holding up significant weight too - Suburban in the past and a Supercrew now. My biggest issue is that often the jack stand is too big to fit where I want it. I have some smaller ones too but feel more comfortable with the heavy duty ones in place. I have some with pins but cannot say they make me feel any safer than the ratchet models. I suggest that it would be relatively easy to make your own or modify some to set a fixed height. Then you would not have to worry about ratchets or pins. Most of the time I think I have them at about the same height when in use so I doubt that would cause me any real issues if I fixed them so they could not move. The other interesting thing from the father's letter relates to the amount of space left. I have said previously that I will normally put something else under the car to ensure it stays up if there is a problem, like blocks of square timber and maybe leave the jack in place too. This fellow apparently left the tire in place under the one front spindle but it did not provide enough extra space to save him. That is a lesson to remember. Randy who plans to live to a ripe old age and continue working on cars On 24/03/2011 11:08 AM, Allan Streib wrote: A sad story indeed. My jack stands are the same low-cost, made-in-China ratchet type... it's very hard for me to imagine that bumping the handle with the ratchet engaged and under load could dislodge it. I wonder if maybe the whole stand was cocked a bit and bumping it knocked it over. However all things are possible I guess... certainly has me considering buying some better jackstands. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Sort of a continuation of my earlier post, but it should not be too difficult to rig something to hold the ratchet part down so it would not readily change no matter how hard it got bumped or banged. Randy On 24/03/2011 5:05 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I've got a set of the ratchet type but I only ever use them on the lowest setting which is about as high as my floor jack will lift... -Curt Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:59:54 -0400 From: Gerry Archerarche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter Message-ID:1334709B885F4D59A4259115C26E71DF@PC466116028214 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Putting the tire under the spindle requires the suspension to load-up again, and an unloaded suspension will hang down ~ 6-12 inches more than when loaded, and it will by design overshoot further than that before settling out. My 2 cents. Walt On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Sort of a continuation of my earlier post, but it should not be too difficult to rig something to hold the ratchet part down so it would not readily change no matter how hard it got bumped or banged. Randy On 24/03/2011 5:05 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I've got a set of the ratchet type but I only ever use them on the lowest setting which is about as high as my floor jack will lift... -Curt Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:59:54 -0400 From: Gerry Archerarche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter Message-ID:1334709B885F4D59A4259115C26E71DF@PC466116028214 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I bought the same stands, either from Sears or Walmarts last year. After using them a couple of times and an incident of one slipping, I decided that the stands were not safe. I then bought four pin type stands from Autozone which are safe unless a metal part of the stand breaks since there is no way the stand can slip with the pin through holes in the sliding car support and the base. Christians father assumes he hit the jack lever accidentally. After my experience with the same or same type jack, I think the jackstand could have simply slipped spontaneously. IMO he should file suit against the retailer and the manufacturer if for no other reason than to get these possibly dangerous jackstands off the market. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Randy Bennell wrote: This fellow apparently left the tire in place under the one front spindle but it did not provide enough extra space to save him. That is a lesson to remember. Which is under the suspension - not the frame. So the spring compresses before it carries weight. And a sudden drop will have inertia over compress the spring and squash something (someone) that has room when it is static. -- Philip, fond of breathing ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca writes: Sort of a continuation of my earlier post, but it should not be too difficult to rig something to hold the ratchet part down so it would not readily change no matter how hard it got bumped or banged. The problem I have with the notion of the ratchet style stand disengaging is that it is in fact a ratchet mechanism: the pawl locks into the notch on the stand and the more weight is bearing down the tighter it locks. The only way one could collapse is if the pawl or the tooth on the stand itself sheared off (which I suppose is possible; so it is also possible for a pin to shear in a pin-style stand). Also under load I don't think you could disengage the ratchet with a bump. You'd need to apply enough force to lift the load by about one tooth before the pawl would disengage, which would be a lot on a lever that short. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Allan Streib wrote: The only way one could collapse is if the pawl or the tooth on the stand itself sheared off If you slide the stand under the car and raise it to meet the frame, it's possible to partially engage the ratchet. When that happens I either drop the ratchet one notch or raise the car 1/2 inch. The handle must drop all the way down, it sits high when the ratchet is hanging on the edge. I believe my USA made Blackhawks can do this too, but not as often as the Kmart stands. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
I'm throwing out my Dad's junk stands. Ironically, he gave me his good old Craftsman pedistal stands with the pin that fits into the holes for proper height adjustment. We've used these ratcheting stands for years, but they won't be used anymore. Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
It's a tripod design, not pedistal as I had written before. They must be built like the old Craftsmans. Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
Kevin Kraly wrote: I'm throwing out my Dad's junk stands. Ironically, he gave me his good old Craftsman pedistal stands with the pin that fits into the holes for proper height adjustment. We've used these ratcheting stands for years, but they won't be used anymore. Could be a good move. I can watch the lever rise and fall as the stand ratchets up, it might be a lot less obvious to you if it didn't fully engage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
I do not see how the ratcheting kind of jack stand could _ever_ be released when it was under compression. Mine sure won't! I had one cheapie whose handle came loose from the pawl, the roll pin broke. I just repinned it. The problem was you couldn't release it, not that it was unsafe. I don't trust the steel pinned stands any more than the cast ratcheting ones, the steel is usually a bit thin and I've seen the pin shearing its way through a tube. The jack was removed from under the car? I always leave the jack there as a safety backup, unless there truly is no way to do that and get the job done. Tires are usually under there too, and maybe even an anvil! Leaving the jack there too would probably have saved his life. I do not blame the creeper, particularly. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] A Father's Letter
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: I don't trust the steel pinned stands any more than the cast ratcheting ones, the steel is usually a bit thin and I've seen the pin shearing its way through a tube. I just got a Griot's Garage catalog in the mail with these in it: http://tinyurl.com/4buwvc4 Seems to me 3/8 aluminum would be a little less likely to suffer the same fate... Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
