Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Sure. Makes sense. I am talking about the longevity and lack of problems & maintenance worries associated with a manual. brian On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 12:35 PM, R A Bennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sort of depends on what you are using the vehicle for etc. I have had a > number of each and I guess for the most > part if I have to choose I would go with an automatic. I wouldn't mind if > my 115 300D was a manual but I am happy > that my 02 Supercrew is not. Truck transmissions are generally not as much > fun as car manual transmissions. We have > the 98 F150 with a manual 5 speed and although it is alright, it is a bit > of a pain in traffic. It is only a 4.2 > V6 - the manual did not come with a V8 - and it is easy to bog it in 2nd > and the step down to low is too far to > work smoothly. > > Our old 4Runner, on the other hand will go way down in higher gears > without bogging - a real flat torque curve I > guess. It, for a truck, is a more drivable manual transmission. It is, > however, a dog in the first couple of gears. > Seems fine once moving but slow on takeoff. I have not driven the 2nd gen > Runner with an AT but I am told it is > even more of a dog. > > Personal preferences always, but the AT is easy and the older I get, the > more I like things that are easy. > > Randy > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zoltan Finks > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:14 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question > > > Thanks Jim, and others. Great info. I'll study it a few times to try to > remember it all and learn from it. > I did, however, think there might be a sort of standard knowledge of how > much the difference between the dipstick reading in a warm, running engine > and a cold, non-running engine is. > > I see how things can get a whole lot more complicated, though, after > reading > the response. > > I agree totally with whomever exclaimed that they hate ATs. I hate the > stuffing out of them to!!! > > Well, with one exception: The 727 Torqueflite behind my big block > Chrysler. > That model is known as "bulletproof". Never had a problem with one, and I > can say that as a foolish youth I have accidentally shifted to reverse at > maybe 30 mph. (not that I wouldn't make that mistake today). And I have > seen > many "neutral drop" from other idiots (most too young to drive). > > Brian > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 7:21 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Brian, > > > > the whole open area in the transmission will physically only hold about > 2 > > 1/2 quarts.? since your leak is probably at the torque converter seal, > air > > is getting in where the oil is leaking out.? This lets the torque > converter > > drain down into the trans case, which it normally doesn't accomplish for > > some time.? The torque converter holds about 2 1/2 quarts so about half > of > > that could find it's way back to the trans case fairly quickly! > > > > Given the above scenario is true, you could actually be aggravating > > (feeding) the leak by filling the trans to the full mark, which doesn't > > leave enough space??for the oil to drain down.? The level in the trans > case > > would?get high enough that it leaks out the tq seal, even with the > engine > > off!? Is that the case?? Does the oil continue to drip, long after the > > engine is shut off? > > > > I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but here is one > > more.? Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator > for > > signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get > sucked > > into the engine, agravating your fluid loss. > > > > Marshall (RIP) has many times said to never fill in the oil to more than > > halfway between the add and the full lines.? He was mainly talking about > > engine oil, but I have seen automatic transmissions, filled to the > correct > > hot level, blow oil out the vent on a hard run up a long hill, or more > > likely, due to aeration of the fluid, caused by something as simple as a > > loose filter.? We are, after all, dealing? with a well used > transmission, > > and quirky things can happen. > > > > I would start by never adding more than 1/2 quart when the dipstick gets > > down to the add mark.? Lucas makes an additive for automatics which may > > swell that leaking seal.?? Try to observe the drip rate with fluid at > > different levels, with the engine off. > > > > Finally, never park with the front of
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Sort of depends on what you are using the vehicle for etc. I have had a number of each and I guess for the most part if I have to choose I would go with an automatic. I wouldn't mind if my 115 300D was a manual but I am happy that my 02 Supercrew is not. Truck transmissions are generally not as much fun as car manual transmissions. We have the 98 F150 with a manual 5 speed and although it is alright, it is a bit of a pain in traffic. It is only a 4.2 V6 - the manual did not come with a V8 - and it is easy to bog it in 2nd and the step down to low is too far to work smoothly. Our old 4Runner, on the other hand will go way down in higher gears without bogging - a real flat torque curve I guess. It, for a truck, is a more drivable manual transmission. It is, however, a dog in the first couple of gears. Seems fine once moving but slow on takeoff. I have not driven the 2nd gen Runner with an AT but I am told it is even more of a dog. Personal preferences always, but the AT is easy and the older I get, the more I like things that are easy. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:14 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question Thanks Jim, and others. Great info. I'll study it a few times to try to remember it all and learn from it. I did, however, think there might be a sort of standard knowledge of how much the difference between the dipstick reading in a warm, running engine and a cold, non-running engine is. I see how things can get a whole lot more complicated, though, after reading the response. I agree totally with whomever exclaimed that they hate ATs. I hate the stuffing out of them to!!! Well, with one exception: The 727 Torqueflite behind my big block Chrysler. That model is known as "bulletproof". Never had a problem with one, and I can say that as a foolish youth I have accidentally shifted to reverse at maybe 30 mph. (not that I wouldn't make that mistake today). And I have seen many "neutral drop" from other idiots (most too young to drive). Brian On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 7:21 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brian, > > the whole open area in the transmission will physically only hold about 2 > 1/2 quarts.? since your leak is probably at the torque converter seal, air > is getting in where the oil is leaking out.? This lets the torque converter > drain down into the trans case, which it normally doesn't accomplish for > some time.? The torque converter holds about 2 1/2 quarts so about half of > that could find it's way back to the trans case fairly quickly! > > Given the above scenario is true, you could actually be aggravating > (feeding) the leak by filling the trans to the full mark, which doesn't > leave enough space??for the oil to drain down.? The level in the trans case > would?get high enough that it leaks out the tq seal, even with the engine > off!? Is that the case?? Does the oil continue to drip, long after the > engine is shut off? > > I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but here is one > more.? Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator for > signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get sucked > into the engine, agravating your fluid loss. > > Marshall (RIP) has many times said to never fill in the oil to more than > halfway between the add and the full lines.? He was mainly talking about > engine oil, but I have seen automatic transmissions, filled to the correct > hot level, blow oil out the vent on a hard run up a long hill, or more > likely, due to aeration of the fluid, caused by something as simple as a > loose filter.? We are, after all, dealing? with a well used transmission, > and quirky things can happen. > > I would start by never adding more than 1/2 quart when the dipstick gets > down to the add mark.? Lucas makes an additive for automatics which may > swell that leaking seal.?? Try to observe the drip rate with fluid at > different levels, with the engine off. > > Finally, never park with the front of the car down hill! > > Jim in Phoenx > > > -Original Message- > From: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 5:46 am > Subject: [MBZ] ATF Level Question > > > > > Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once > again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning > just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend > the > wife would ever check it. > And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and > cooled > down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Thanks Jim, and others. Great info. I'll study it a few times to try to remember it all and learn from it. I did, however, think there might be a sort of standard knowledge of how much the difference between the dipstick reading in a warm, running engine and a cold, non-running engine is. I see how things can get a whole lot more complicated, though, after reading the response. I agree totally with whomever exclaimed that they hate ATs. I hate the stuffing out of them to!!! Well, with one exception: The 727 Torqueflite behind my big block Chrysler. That model is known as "bulletproof". Never had a problem with one, and I can say that as a foolish youth I have accidentally shifted to reverse at maybe 30 mph. (not that I wouldn't make that mistake today). And I have seen many "neutral drop" from other idiots (most too young to drive). Brian On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 7:21 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brian, > > the whole open area in the transmission will physically only hold about 2 > 1/2 quarts.? since your leak is probably at the torque converter seal, air > is getting in where the oil is leaking out.? This lets the torque converter > drain down into the trans case, which it normally doesn't accomplish for > some time.? The torque converter holds about 2 1/2 quarts so about half of > that could find it's way back to the trans case fairly quickly! > > Given the above scenario is true, you could actually be aggravating > (feeding) the leak by filling the trans to the full mark, which doesn't > leave enough space??for the oil to drain down.? The level in the trans case > would?get high enough that it leaks out the tq seal, even with the engine > off!? Is that the case?? Does the oil continue to drip, long after the > engine is shut off? > > I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but here is one > more.? Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator for > signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get sucked > into the engine, agravating your fluid loss. > > Marshall (RIP) has many times said to never fill in the oil to more than > halfway between the add and the full lines.? He was mainly talking about > engine oil, but I have seen automatic transmissions, filled to the correct > hot level, blow oil out the vent on a hard run up a long hill, or more > likely, due to aeration of the fluid, caused by something as simple as a > loose filter.? We are, after all, dealing? with a well used transmission, > and quirky things can happen. > > I would start by never adding more than 1/2 quart when the dipstick gets > down to the add mark.? Lucas makes an additive for automatics which may > swell that leaking seal.?? Try to observe the drip rate with fluid at > different levels, with the engine off. > > Finally, never park with the front of the car down hill! > > Jim in Phoenx > > > -Original Message- > From: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 5:46 am > Subject: [MBZ] ATF Level Question > > > > > Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once > again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning > just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend > the > wife would ever check it. > And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and > cooled > down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This > all makes sense, but it reminded me of when I was dealing with the seller > out in California. He, a plastic surgeon (so not a totally stupid man) was > so sure that the trans fluid should be checked with the engine off. And > when > I showed him that the dipstick was dry with engine running, he said "yes, > that's how it should be. When you shut it off and check it, the level is > right." I proceeded to show him in the manual where it states that the > trans > fluid should be checked with engine running and trans in "park". > > Question is: If the fluid level is just above the full line (the highest > of > the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is > the > transmission on fluid? > > The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear > reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a clear > reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the stick. > I > suppose checking the dipstick after adding fluid contributes to this > problem, but even when I don't do that, it's still really hard to get a > clear reading. > > Thanks, > Brian > 87 190D > 83 240D > _
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Jim in Phoenix wrote: "Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator for signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get sucked into the engine, agravating your fluid loss." That is exactly what happened to my 82 300D. You won't notice it running badly because, of course, a little transmission fluid isn't going to hurt a diesel. I replaced the vacuum modulator (because the shifts were way too hard and I couldn't adjust it more). That fixed the shifting problem and the leak. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Good stuff Jim, that's a gold star keeper. Harry On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:21 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Brian, > > > > the whole open area in the transmission will physically only hold about 2 > 1/2 quarts.? since your leak is probably at the torque converter seal, air > is getting in where the oil is leaking out.? This lets the torque converter > drain down into the trans case, which it normally doesn't accomplish for > some time.? The torque converter holds about 2 1/2 quarts so about half of > that could find it's way back to the trans case fairly quickly! > > Given the above scenario is true, you could actually be aggravating > (feeding) the leak by filling the trans to the full mark, which doesn't > leave enough space??for the oil to drain down.? The level in the trans case > would?get high enough that it leaks out the tq seal, even with the engine > off!? Is that the case?? Does the oil continue to drip, long after the > engine is shut off? > > I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but here is one > more.? Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator for > signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get sucked > into the engine, agravating your fluid loss. > > Marshall (RIP) has many times said to never fill in the oil to more than > halfway between the add and the full lines.? He was mainly talking about > engine oil, but I have seen automatic transmissions, filled to the correct > hot level, blow oil out the vent on a hard run up a long hill, or more > likely, due to aeration of the fluid, caused by something as simple as a > loose filter.? We are, after all, dealing? with a well used transmission, > and quirky things can happen. > > I would start by never adding more than 1/2 quart when the dipstick gets > down to the add mark.? Lucas makes an additive for automatics which may > swell that leaking seal.?? Try to observe the drip rate with fluid at > different levels, with the engine off. > > Finally, never park with the front of the car down hill! > > Jim in Phoenx > > > -Original Message- > From: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 5:46 am > Subject: [MBZ] ATF Level Question > > > > > Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once > again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning > just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend > the > wife would ever check it. > And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and > cooled > down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This > all makes sense, but it reminded me of when I was dealing with the seller > out in California. He, a plastic surgeon (so not a totally stupid man) was > so sure that the trans fluid should be checked with the engine off. And > when > I showed him that the dipstick was dry with engine running, he said "yes, > that's how it should be. When you shut it off and check it, the level is > right." I proceeded to show him in the manual where it states that the > trans > fluid should be checked with engine running and trans in "park". > > Question is: If the fluid level is just above the full line (the highest > of > the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is > the > transmission on fluid? > > The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear > reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a clear > reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the stick. > I > suppose checking the dipstick after adding fluid contributes to this > problem, but even when I don't do that, it's still really hard to get a > clear reading. > > Thanks, > Brian > 87 190D > 83 240D > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
Brian, the whole open area in the transmission will physically only hold about 2 1/2 quarts.? since your leak is probably at the torque converter seal, air is getting in where the oil is leaking out.? This lets the torque converter drain down into the trans case, which it normally doesn't accomplish for some time.? The torque converter holds about 2 1/2 quarts so about half of that could find it's way back to the trans case fairly quickly! Given the above scenario is true, you could actually be aggravating (feeding) the leak by filling the trans to the full mark, which doesn't leave enough space??for the oil to drain down.? The level in the trans case would?get high enough that it leaks out the tq seal, even with the engine off!? Is that the case?? Does the oil continue to drip, long after the engine is shut off? I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but here is one more.? Have you checked the vacuum line to the transmission modulator for signs of oil?? a cracked modulator diaphragm can let trans fluid get sucked into the engine, agravating your fluid loss. Marshall (RIP) has many times said to never fill in the oil to more than halfway between the add and the full lines.? He was mainly talking about engine oil, but I have seen automatic transmissions, filled to the correct hot level, blow oil out the vent on a hard run up a long hill, or more likely, due to aeration of the fluid, caused by something as simple as a loose filter.? We are, after all, dealing? with a well used transmission, and quirky things can happen. I would start by never adding more than 1/2 quart when the dipstick gets down to the add mark.? Lucas makes an additive for automatics which may swell that leaking seal.?? Try to observe the drip rate with fluid at different levels, with the engine off. Finally, never park with the front of the car down hill! Jim in Phoenx -Original Message- From: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mercedes Discussion List Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 5:46 am Subject: [MBZ] ATF Level Question Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend the wife would ever check it. And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and cooled down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This all makes sense, but it reminded me of when I was dealing with the seller out in California. He, a plastic surgeon (so not a totally stupid man) was so sure that the trans fluid should be checked with the engine off. And when I showed him that the dipstick was dry with engine running, he said "yes, that's how it should be. When you shut it off and check it, the level is right." I proceeded to show him in the manual where it states that the trans fluid should be checked with engine running and trans in "park". Question is: If the fluid level is just above the full line (the highest of the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is the transmission on fluid? The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a clear reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the stick. I suppose checking the dipstick after adding fluid contributes to this problem, but even when I don't do that, it's still really hard to get a clear reading. Thanks, Brian 87 190D 83 240D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
You asked < the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is > the > transmission on fluid?>> I don't think the engine off method is completely trustworthy but it should be low on the dipstick when checked when the engine is cold & running. The fluid heats and expands as it reaches operating temp and so will go *up* on the dipstick- not down as you ask. While that's true of fluid whith the engine cold/cool and running I cannot answer what it might be cold/cool and *not* running since I have ever checked it that way - since that's the wrong way ;-) Hope this was a little bit helpful/ How hard will it be to fix the leak? Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:46 AM Subject: [MBZ] ATF Level Question > Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once > again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning > just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend > the > wife would ever check it. > And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and > cooled > down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This > all makes sense, but it reminded me of when I was dealing with the seller > out in California. He, a plastic surgeon (so not a totally stupid man) was > so sure that the trans fluid should be checked with the engine off. And > when > I showed him that the dipstick was dry with engine running, he said "yes, > that's how it should be. When you shut it off and check it, the level is > right." I proceeded to show him in the manual where it states that the > trans > fluid should be checked with engine running and trans in "park". > > Question is: If the fluid level is just above the full line (the highest > of > the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is > the > transmission on fluid? > > The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear > reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a clear > reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the stick. > I > suppose checking the dipstick after adding fluid contributes to this > problem, but even when I don't do that, it's still really hard to get a > clear reading. > > Thanks, > Brian > 87 190D > 83 240D > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] ATF Level Question
> The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear > reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a > clear > reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the > stick. Another reason I really hate AT's. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] ATF Level Question
Just checked the ATF earlier this evening on the 87 190D and found once again that the stick is dry. I assure you this pains me. But I'm learning just how often I have to add fluid to the leaky tranny. Heaven forefend the wife would ever check it. And I pulled the dipstick again a few minutes ago with engine off and cooled down. I found that the fluid level is just a bit above the full line. This all makes sense, but it reminded me of when I was dealing with the seller out in California. He, a plastic surgeon (so not a totally stupid man) was so sure that the trans fluid should be checked with the engine off. And when I showed him that the dipstick was dry with engine running, he said "yes, that's how it should be. When you shut it off and check it, the level is right." I proceeded to show him in the manual where it states that the trans fluid should be checked with engine running and trans in "park". Question is: If the fluid level is just above the full line (the highest of the two marks on the dipstick) with the engine off and cool, how low is the transmission on fluid? The reason I ask this is that it is very difficult to achieve a clear reading on that dipstick. One side will have something approaching a clear reading, and the other side will have fluid running half way up the stick. I suppose checking the dipstick after adding fluid contributes to this problem, but even when I don't do that, it's still really hard to get a clear reading. Thanks, Brian 87 190D 83 240D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
