Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
John W. Reames III wrote: for intake, add 0.05mm for extended ambient temps below -20C But if it's -10C when you adjust them, there's no reason to add more clearance. You will have a bit more clearance at -10 than at room temperature (+20C).
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
But if it's -10C when you adjust them, THE ENGINE AND THE WRENCHES ARE TERRIBLY COLD TO THE TOUCH! bur! I'll be waiting until the temps climb a bit although it's probably 6oC or 42oF here, balmy compared to much of the country right now. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265k miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:57:25 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. Your fingers will thank you, but you'll have an undetermined temperature thoughout the engine which will play havoc with the actual valve lashes when the engine is entirely cold. The specs for adjustment assume the entire engine is at 20 deg.C. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! Werner - Original Message - From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:57:25 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? No. You won't enjoy it. (Otherwise no problem.) I recommend you plug in the block heater for a couple of hours, your fingers will thank you. Your fingers will thank you, but you'll have an undetermined temperature thoughout the engine which will play havoc with the actual valve lashes when the engine is entirely cold. The specs for adjustment assume the entire engine is at 20 deg.C. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
In a message dated 1/18/2007 3:31:21 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? I have not done the valves in 2 yrs and I don't have a heated garage. Absolutely ok. The colder it is when you adjust them, the less likely it is that they will be held open during a colder day. The clearances when normalized will be slightly looser but that improves low end torque, with only slightly noisier valve clatter. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 147 K miles
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:54:51 -0500 Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? Because that will have even worse temperature changes as you're adjusting the valves. You need to adjust the valves with the engine at ambient temperature so everything starts and finishes at the same temperature. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
I've gotten really huge latex gloves and put them on over knit garden gloves before, it doesn't kill your dexterity as much (and it is not like you need TONS of it for a valve adjustment) I hear you kicking and screaming over bending overin the cold. Insulated coveralls help a bit, but I am still suffering from my jaunt on the ground yesterday; Hans had an 8mm coolant line pop out of a clip and rub itself to death on the intercooler... To get at the line entailed removing the bumper (4 bolts, thankfully!).. I just used a 5/16 compression union on it, seems to be holding fine.. BTW i found out that I have weeping from between the nuts and the pipe on my oil cooler lines, Thankfully the OM606 has 4 lines; two hoses from the engine to the body hard lines, then the two body hard lines down to the aluminium radiator. Unfortunately it is the body hard lines that have the weep, so it looks like headlight removal time and probably dremel time (split the nuts and they will hopefully unscrew... but they might not be siezed either. It will be decidely easier to get at the cooler with the bumper off. I'm hoping that the radiator is not leaking as well. Does anyone know how much oil the lines and radiator hold? (210.025/OM606.96x) I'm guessing about 2 qt. I also found that the bolts securing the sway bar to the chassis tend to round off (#[EMAIL PROTECTED] E-10 heads) and were up-reved to Hex heads. I'm hoping that Craftsman external ez-out sockets will get a good bite on the now round heads and spin them right out. Additionally, on the stuck lug nut, I found that my locak dealership has a guy who is good enough with a plasma cutter to just blow the bolt out of the hole (!). Talk about big chrome-plated cast-iron cojones! Fun,Fun. -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Roger Conlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks all who responded to my question. It did cross my mind to leave the block heater plugged in all night and while I was working on it. I thought by then the engine temp should even out. As far as the cold temp as long as I get out of the wind it's really not that bad, and after the fingers get that fat numb feeling. Right Lt. Don. Where has he been lately or have I just missed his postings? I think it bothers my back more in the cold from leaning over tho. _ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 -- next part -- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Roger Conlon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:41:14 + Size: 789 Url: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20070119/dcbe577b/attachment.mht
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! For the engine to be at a uniform temperature throughout, the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours (not even for a minute or two). Unless the engine temperature is uniform, valve adjustment will be uneven. Once shut down, the front, center and back of the engine cool at different rates. Using the block heater would not be particularly desirable either but not as bad as running the engine. What is required for reliable cold starting is that there be SOME valve clearance at the coldest temperatures expected (clearance decreases as the temperature drops because the valves and the head have different temperature coefficients). The precise clearance is not nearly as critical as sufficient clearance for reliable cold starting. Uniform and correct clearances are required for the engine to run most smoothly. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Werner Fehlauer wrote: Why not simply run the engine, long enough for it to reach some uniform temperature, shut it down, and just as it cools enough to work on it safely, do the adjustment? That should allow doing it above the freezing temperatures of the day, and also have some mercy on the fingers. Of course, you would want to warm the tools beforehand, also! Werner Wouldn't that be to wait for operating temperature? If its somewhere inbetween different things could still be at different temperatures (heck, thats prolly true even at operating temp). The plate on my car says if above a certain temp use xx values or if its below that temp use... etc. (I don't remember the values or temp, but know that I've always needed the 'cold' ones). IMO, its been two years since the valve adjustment was done the little itty bitty differences in tolerance from the super cold temperatures are most likely insignificant compared to how out of clearance they are now. Besides, its not like they'll never be out of adjustment again ;) Warming tools... I'm going to have to try that one! :) Any spiffy warming method or do you just keep them inside? John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
John Robbins wrote: The plate on my car says if above a certain temp use xx values or if its below that temp use... etc. (I don't remember the values or temp, but know that I've always needed the 'cold' ones). IMO, its been two years since the valve adjustment was done the little itty bitty differences in tolerance from the super cold temperatures are most likely insignificant compared to how out of clearance they are now. Besides, its not like they'll never be out of adjustment again ;) Unless you are much faster at adjusting valve than I am, the warm values ALWAYS result in unreliable valve adjustment since the engine is cooling while you are adjusting the valves. For a uniform valve adjustment the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours!! Even really experienced mechanics can't do as good a job using the warm values (no matter what they claim). Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Thanks. I noticed a decided difference in engine running between stone cold (overnight sit) versus warm adjustments. I always wondered why, or if it was something that I was doing wrong. I've gotten to where I can adjust them on the street in 30 mins (It has gotten a question or three from the neighbors, but they have grown to accept it.) -j. -- John Reames 1985 300d (223K Gerta) 1991 Cherokee (149K the fishbowl) 1999 E300Dt (140K Hans) (the leaky one) 1999 E300Dt (106K Frantz) (the squeaky one) -- Original message -- From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless you are much faster at adjusting valve than I am, the warm values ALWAYS result in unreliable valve adjustment since the engine is cooling while you are adjusting the valves. For a uniform valve adjustment the engine must not have been run for 6-8 hours!! Even really experienced mechanics can't do as good a job using the warm values (no matter what they claim). From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 19 16:14:41 2007 Received: from sniper.hpc.msstate.edu ([130.18.14.12] helo=HPC.MsState.Edu) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.52) id 1H7wNw-0003Bd-PL for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:41 + Received: from [130.18.90.226] (Dhcp-90-226.HPC.MsState.Edu [130.18.90.226]); by HPC.MsState.Edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/HPC-Mailhost/1.23) with ESMTP; id l0JG9fpZ002041 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:09:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:09:33 -0600 From: John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Governer question - injection charge profile X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:14:41 - Peter Merle wrote: To ask a furthur question - what shapes the maximum injection stoke volume vs rpm at these pumps. As I understand it compensation for volumetric efficiency vs rpm needs to be taken account so that at low speed and at hig speed the maximum injection charge is lower than at mid range rpm due to rereduced volumetric efficeincy. Let me make sure I understand what you're asking real quick. :) On the volumetric efficiency vs RPM are you talking about the amount of available air for combustion inside the cylinder based on RPM (things like boost and/or losses changing that over the RPM band)? If thats the case, then the amount of injected fuel (injection charge?) does have different limits across the RPM range. The reason for it is that if you start injecting too much fuel you will start generating clouds of black smoke (partially burned fuel). I have a graph in a Bosch tech book that shows the max injected volume vs RPM and it does do what you describe. I can post that if you would like that extra verification :) As to HOW thats done that is where the complicated part (IMO) of our governors come into play. In the governor used on the MW pumps I believe it is called torque control. There are very few people who truly understand exactly how it works (and how to change it), and I am certainly NOT one of them. If you are interested in learning more about how IPs work I'd highly suggest this book It talks about all kinds of IPs and how the governors work, etc. As well as a fairly detailed overview of diesel combustion, etc. I sure enjoyed reading it and learned a lot :) http://www.boschtechinfo.com/index.cfm?event=product.searchkeyword=1%20987%20723%20602 John '79 300SD
[MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? I have not done the valves in 2 yrs and I don't have a heated garage. _ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095tcode=wlmtagline
Re: [MBZ] Adjusting valves in cold weather
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Roger Conlon wrote: Would it be OK to adjust the valves on a 85 300D in cold weather, say 20 degrees F, or would it be a no,no? I have not done the valves in 2 yrs and I don't have a heated garage. Intake is [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Exhaust for NA is [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Exhaust for Turbo is [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] for intake, add 0.05mm for extended ambient temps below -20C -j.
