Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
yup! Same for 107, but different years Don't forget to send me your old alloy wheels and hubcaps! Dimitri wrote: That’s right! The first w123 came out in 1977 with hubcaps, the way it was intended by the designers. The bundt ugly wheels were just forced on the car later so it can appear more modern. Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote: Good! send me your old alloy wheels and hubcaps! mer ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I agree, hard to find them now. I am still kicking myself for tossing the steelies I had on Gump. IDIOT! Just had to “upgrade” to bundts. clay > On May 12, 2018, at 4:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > None whatsoever. The painted wheel cover look was always far superior to the > bundts in my opinion. Do you have a set? They’re not easy to come by as I > recall. > > -D > >> On May 12, 2018, at 7:45 AM, Dimitri via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D >> because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are >> 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Yes the 6” aluminum steelies are quite desirable in the pagoda crowd. The 5.5” also fetch a pretty penny but not like the 6”. The 5.5” ones I have were bought at a junkyard years ago for $15 a pop! My two 240D’s also both have the 5.5” aluminum steelies. Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2018, at 12:20 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes > wrote: > > 6” aluminum steelies existed on late non turbo 300Ds delivered to the US. > 280Es also I think. Very rare, very expensive. The pagaoda guys all buy > them up as an upgrade. > > I run 15x5.5 steel wheels on my W116 with hubcaps with no issue. I think I > have 206/65r15s on them. > > Jaime > > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:50 AM G Mann via Mercedes > wrote: > >> Nothing defines a classic car like a classic look... and for a classic >> Mercedes, the painted hubcap look is "right". >> >> At a glance, it looks "classic"... >> >> My 82 300 D came with a set of Centric wheels, high end custom Mercedes kit >> for the day... They are stacked in the corner... steelies and caps look >> much more "classic". >> >> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >>> Let's hear it for anachronism >>> >>> Dwight Giles Jr. >>> Wickford RI >>> >>> On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > wrote: > >> I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to >> using >> these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New >> Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> -- > Jaime Kopchinski > http://www.jaimekop.com/ > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Thank you! Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes > wrote: > > Nothing defines a classic car like a classic look... and for a classic > Mercedes, the painted hubcap look is "right". > > At a glance, it looks "classic"... > > My 82 300 D came with a set of Centric wheels, high end custom Mercedes kit > for the day... They are stacked in the corner... steelies and caps look > much more "classic". > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Let's hear it for anachronism >> >> Dwight Giles Jr. >> Wickford RI >> >> On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >>> I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better >>> looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look >>> anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. >>> >>> On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" >>> wrote: >>> On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
That’s right! The first w123 came out in 1977 with hubcaps, the way it was intended by the designers. The bundt ugly wheels were just forced on the car later so it can appear more modern. Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Good! send me your old alloy wheels and hubcaps! > > Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: >> WOW! I agree with Andrew. >> >> Greg >> >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Good! send me your old alloy wheels and hubcaps! Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote: WOW! I agree with Andrew. Greg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Hear here! Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote: Let's hear it for anachronism Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
As long as they are close to the original size, you should be good. I think original was 185/78 or maybe 185/70. 195/70 should be ok, but you can consult the tar-rack website. Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
No! The alloy stamped wheels are great! Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
WOW! I agree with Andrew. Greg -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 7:22 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > wrote: > > > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I have heard of BBS and Rial. Mine are Rial. Look like these except for the web being black. https://www.ebay.com/itm/OZ-MSW-Mercedes-15-7-wheels-rims-5x112-w123-w126-w126-W107-W108-W116-Sl-sec-cl/202292133361?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D44039%26meid%3D5f6963db25534177aa5c100556e8644c%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D202292131506%26itm%3D202292133361&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982 Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: On May 12, 2018 at 2:23 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: What do they look like? To me centric is a generic term for wheels that have a center hole that fits on the center ring of the brake disk. Some wheels are lug-centric. Virtually all OE wheels are hub-centric. Did AMG use BBS brand mesh wheels in the 1980s? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
> On May 12, 2018 at 2:23 PM MG via Mercedes wrote: > > > What do they look like? To me centric is a generic term for > wheels that have a center hole that fits on the center ring of > the brake disk. Some wheels are lug-centric. Virtually all OE wheels are hub-centric. Did AMG use BBS brand mesh wheels in the 1980s? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
What do they look like? To me centric is a generic term for wheels that have a center hole that fits on the center ring of the brake disk. All the shock of the road is then transferred through that rather then the lug bolts as in some other cars. G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Nothing defines a classic car like a classic look... and for a classic Mercedes, the painted hubcap look is "right". At a glance, it looks "classic"... My 82 300 D came with a set of Centric wheels, high end custom Mercedes kit for the day... They are stacked in the corner... steelies and caps look much more "classic". On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: Let's hear it for anachronism Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" wrote: On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I'd have to agree with you if all you can get is the Bundts. Personally I like the Basketweave wheels that AMG used to put on the w123s. Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" wrote: On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
6” aluminum steelies existed on late non turbo 300Ds delivered to the US. 280Es also I think. Very rare, very expensive. The pagaoda guys all buy them up as an upgrade. I run 15x5.5 steel wheels on my W116 with hubcaps with no issue. I think I have 206/65r15s on them. Jaime On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:50 AM G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > Nothing defines a classic car like a classic look... and for a classic > Mercedes, the painted hubcap look is "right". > > At a glance, it looks "classic"... > > My 82 300 D came with a set of Centric wheels, high end custom Mercedes kit > for the day... They are stacked in the corner... steelies and caps look > much more "classic". > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > Let's hear it for anachronism > > > > Dwight Giles Jr. > > Wickford RI > > > > On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better > > > looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look > > > anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. > > > > > > On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to > using > > > > > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > > > > > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > > > > > > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > > > > > > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Nothing defines a classic car like a classic look... and for a classic Mercedes, the painted hubcap look is "right". At a glance, it looks "classic"... My 82 300 D came with a set of Centric wheels, high end custom Mercedes kit for the day... They are stacked in the corner... steelies and caps look much more "classic". On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Let's hear it for anachronism > > Dwight Giles Jr. > Wickford RI > > On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better > > looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look > > anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. > > > > On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" > > wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > > > > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > > > > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > > > > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > > > > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Let's hear it for anachronism Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI On May 12, 2018 10:22 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better > looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look > anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. > > On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" > wrote: > > > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > > wrote: > > > > > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > > > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > > > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > > > > Craig > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I respectfully disagree. The bundt wheels are more modern and better looking on any Mercedes built after 1973. The painted hubcaps look anachronistic except on the 108 and earlier models. On May 12, 2018 9:25 AM, "Craig via Mercedes" wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes > wrote: > > > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? > > Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. > > If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
On Sat, 12 May 2018 08:07:27 -0400 Dimitri via Mercedes wrote: > I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using > these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New > Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? Check with Michelin the range of rim widths your tires can handle. If it includes 5.5, go right ahead. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
Curt used to Havre some. Great move. Get rid of the bundt uglies. Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI On May 12, 2018 7:45 AM, "Dimitri via Mercedes" wrote: > I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D > because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are > 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I have a set but they are 5.5 not 6. Is there a disadvantage to using these narrower rims? I was going to remount the almost new New Michelins from the bundts to the steelies? Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2018, at 7:51 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > None whatsoever. The painted wheel cover look was always far superior to the > bundts in my opinion. Do you have a set? They’re not easy to come by as I > recall. > > -D > >> On May 12, 2018, at 7:45 AM, Dimitri via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D >> because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are >> 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
None whatsoever. The painted wheel cover look was always far superior to the bundts in my opinion. Do you have a set? They’re not easy to come by as I recall. -D > On May 12, 2018, at 7:45 AM, Dimitri via Mercedes > wrote: > > I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D > because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are > 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Aluminum Steelies
I’m thinking of swapping the bundts for aluminum steelies on the 85 300D because I like the painted hubcap look much better. The alum steelies are 5.5s and I think the bundts are 6? Any reason not to do this? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V8 Halocaust Museum
Yeah. I don't remember that one. And I've been here since 2002 or so. Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Randy BennellSent: Friday, March 28, 2014 4:22 PMTo: Mercedes Discussion ListReply To: Mercedes Discussion ListSubject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V8 Halocaust MuseumOk, who wants to talk about aluminum V8's and why would we fight about them?Must be many more than there once were.Randy___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.comAll posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V8 Halocaust Museum
Ok, who wants to talk about aluminum V8's and why would we fight about them? Must be many more than there once were. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V8 Halocaust Museum
CAR SHAKE AT START On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Van Knutson wrote: > On Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:17 PM, Hendrik and Fay > wrote: > > > > If we get to the stage where everyone is on their tippy toes scared to > say or post stuff because someone may take mild offence, this list will > become pretty barren and soulless. > Every good list/forum needs to have a bit of fun off topic banter, sure > there needs to be limits but I think self moderation is the order of the > day at this stage. > > > ** > I think we are still sensitive about the infamous "Aluminum V8" rantathon > from about 15 yrs ago, which was the Hiroshima of the mercedes list, for > those who go back that far. It started as an aforementioned dry post about > Aluminum V8's, and quickly devolved into a > political/ethical/intercontinental flame war that went on for weeks, wiping > out all side communication like an EMP. > > DVB, spoken only in whispers information minister > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those > individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
[MBZ] Aluminum V8 Halocaust Museum
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 8:17 PM, Hendrik and Fay wrote: If we get to the stage where everyone is on their tippy toes scared to say or post stuff because someone may take mild offence, this list will become pretty barren and soulless. Every good list/forum needs to have a bit of fun off topic banter, sure there needs to be limits but I think self moderation is the order of the day at this stage. ** I think we are still sensitive about the infamous "Aluminum V8" rantathon from about 15 yrs ago, which was the Hiroshima of the mercedes list, for those who go back that far. It started as an aforementioned dry post about Aluminum V8's, and quickly devolved into a political/ethical/intercontinental flame war that went on for weeks, wiping out all side communication like an EMP. DVB, spoken only in whispers information minister ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Curt, I hate to tell you but it was always a probelm on the filter on that 78. We tried rubber and once we finally got a copper washer to work. We tried a range of torque settings too. Dwight On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > Hey, > > My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the > canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 > 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a > spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells > me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have > this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable > replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? > > -Curt > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
> Curt Raymond wrote: > This is good information. I'm going to order one of the new > type from Rusty but will hold it in reserve and try to anneal > what I have. > > I *think* my IR thermometer goes to 799F so it seems like I > should be able to get in the right range using it and my > plumbers torch if I'm careful. Getting an accurate reading from a shiny, non-black surface with an IR thermometer can be iffy. > I've annealed copper washers a couple times now with good > results. Copper is easy 'cause it doesn't melt before it glows. *grin* -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
This is good information. I'm going to order one of the new type from Rusty but will hold it in reserve and try to anneal what I have. I *think* my IR thermometer goes to 799F so it seems like I should be able to get in the right range using it and my plumbers torch if I'm careful. I've annealed copper washers a couple times now with good results. -Curt Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 00:06:50 -0500 From: Fmiser To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Message-ID: <20120322000650.73899f42.fmi...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > G Mann wrote: > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > heat. That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good target for Aluminum. I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply soap and watch for it turns black. The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > You should get a nice "PSssh} Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
All good points. If you have a tray of 100 pieces, and a lab oven with digital control, you could do a very precise job of annealing the washers. This is a down and dirty, "Get'er Done" and "close is good enough" way of doing it. As stated, "it ain't brain surgery" it's just "stop the leak with what you got" time. Caution: If you melt the washer, you are out of a working car. Bottom line: Call "Q" and stock up on what ever replaces them. On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Fmiser wrote: > > G Mann wrote: > > > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > > heat. > > That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), > and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good > target for Aluminum. > > I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface > temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is > supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said > only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply > soap and watch for it turns black. > > The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. > http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ > Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > > > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > > You should get a nice "PSssh} > > Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally > affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, > or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals > (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. > > -- Philip > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
> G Mann wrote: > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > heat. That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good target for Aluminum. I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply soap and watch for it turns black. The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > You should get a nice "PSssh} Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Just had the same problem on an 82 300 TD when I replaced the filter. Removed and super cleaned the surfaces and the washer to be sure I had not "created the problem" with foreign material, found none, re-torqued and still leaked. Removed the aluminum washer and annealed it, then a quench it in cold water. The anneal worked, upon torque the washer seal gave no leak. To anneal the washer, I did this: 1. Made a washer holder from stainless safety wire, .032, which held the washer flat like a frying pan with minimum contact from the safety wire [it's not brain surgery after all.. so be inventive] 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from heat. 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. You should get a nice "PSssh} 4. Washer is now Annealed. install it like a new one. Grant... On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > Hey, > > My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the > canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 > 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a > spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells > me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have > this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable > replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? > > -Curt > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Egads, sounds like it might be time for a call to the classic center. Wish I had an excuse to swing by again... -Curt Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:00:28 -0400 From: "Scott Ritchey" To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Message-ID: <8280896AB68042FA8578892638D67DB3@ScottPC> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
All 3 numbers in EPC are rubber rings, trust me. I bought them all to see. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: "Scott Ritchey" Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:00:28 To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Try a hydraulic fitting store. This is typical for a metric hydraulic fitting. -Original Message- From: Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:10 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Aluminum washer
Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V-6
05 was the last year for the MB I6..unlike B*W who has stayed true to form. John On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:58 PM, wrote: >> ...If they're gonna splay the cylinders in a vee, I'll take the 420 CDI >> instead of >> the 350. (but I'd rather have the straight six).. >> > There is no straight sixanymore. > > RLE >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum V-6
> ...If they're gonna splay the cylinders in a vee, I'll take the 420 CDI > instead of > the 350. (but I'd rather have the straight six).. > There is no straight sixanymore. RLE > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
I was working in a machine shop then, and everytime someone brought a vega engine through the door, we'd tell them right off that the head was most likely going to be trashed beyond repair. Every one that came in was either warped or cracked, most were too far gone to fix, and it was generally cheaper and faster for the customer to just buy a new head. It's funny, as many of those things I fooled with, I can't , for the life of me, remember what they looked like. Was that some of that useless GM injected molded aluminum that looked like styrofoam? ---Robert Tom Hargrave wrote: > I don't know the final solution but I do know that the Vega engines were > produced at Tonawanda Engine, not far from where I lived at the time. > Several family members worked at the factory & my Uncle's neighbor was an > Engineer at the facility. He stated that the issue was piston skirt wear and > that GM actually solved the problem before selling to Mercedes. I know that > GM re-designed the pistons but I don't remember what was actually done or my > Uncle's neighbor did not go into that much detail. Remember, this was 30 > years ago. > > By the time GM solved the wear issue, too much damage had been done to the > brand and GM could not recover. The first MB engine produce with this > technology was the 380, used in the late 80's & early 90's SL's. Too bad the > early 380's had single row timing chains. At the same time, independent > shops started rebuilding out of warranty Vega engines with pressed in iron > sleeves. I don't believe the sleeve was a GM design but I could be wrong. > > The Vega was actually a great daily driver and the body held up better than > anything Ford put out in the 70's. South of Buffalo NY, where I lived, is > the absolute worse place to own a car & the 2 worse cars to own in the 70's > were AMC and Ford (in that order). I've seen 3 year old Ford LTD's with > holes in the fenders large enough to drop a soft ball through. A high school > buddy's Ford wagon actually sagged in the middle on the way home from school > one day. It was so bad that the doors would not open! The wagon was right at > 5 years old. > > GM also screwed the US diesel market with their Olds based diesel. This was > also a good engine by 1981 but just like the Vega, too much damage had been > done to the brand and GM could not recover. But the damage caused by GM's > diesel screw-up was much further reaching than the Vega screw-up. They hurt > the entire diesel car market, including Mercedes, which is why you see few > Mercedes diesels around from the mid-80's on. No-one in this country but die > hard diesel fans wanted a diesel from anyone by the time the air cleared > around GM's disaster. > > I owned a 1981 Pontiac Bonniville with the Olds diesel & it was a wonderful > car. I trashed the engine at 155,000 miles. I had replaced both radiator > hoses & did not properly tighten the bottom radiator clamp. The hose slipped > off about 2 weeks later & before I realized what was going on the engine was > toast. My only complaint was that the filter would suddenly plug and when it > did, you had very little power. Also, the filter was outrageously expensive. > I used to keep a spare & a set of wrenches in the trunk. > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > -Original Message- > From: archer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:58 PM > To: Tom Hargrave > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum > > RLE points out: > "That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was used in the Porsche 944, 968 and > > 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the M112 V-6 in my C320. And the > blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner." > > What was the piston skirt solution used in those engines; pistons made of > the same high silicon alloy? > Gerry > > - > >> From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> The issue with the Vega was that the piston skirts would not hold up >> against the much harder exposed silicone. The skirts would wear to the >> point where the pistons would actually rock in the bores and when bad >> enough, would score the cylinder walls. Some were bored out and had iron >> sleeves pressed in. The softer iron was much easier on the piston >> skirts. This turned out to be an expensive lesson on mismatched >> materials. >> Thanks, Tom >> 256-656-1924 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" >> Sent: 9/2
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
I don't know the final solution but I do know that the Vega engines were produced at Tonawanda Engine, not far from where I lived at the time. Several family members worked at the factory & my Uncle's neighbor was an Engineer at the facility. He stated that the issue was piston skirt wear and that GM actually solved the problem before selling to Mercedes. I know that GM re-designed the pistons but I don't remember what was actually done or my Uncle's neighbor did not go into that much detail. Remember, this was 30 years ago. By the time GM solved the wear issue, too much damage had been done to the brand and GM could not recover. The first MB engine produce with this technology was the 380, used in the late 80's & early 90's SL's. Too bad the early 380's had single row timing chains. At the same time, independent shops started rebuilding out of warranty Vega engines with pressed in iron sleeves. I don't believe the sleeve was a GM design but I could be wrong. The Vega was actually a great daily driver and the body held up better than anything Ford put out in the 70's. South of Buffalo NY, where I lived, is the absolute worse place to own a car & the 2 worse cars to own in the 70's were AMC and Ford (in that order). I've seen 3 year old Ford LTD's with holes in the fenders large enough to drop a soft ball through. A high school buddy's Ford wagon actually sagged in the middle on the way home from school one day. It was so bad that the doors would not open! The wagon was right at 5 years old. GM also screwed the US diesel market with their Olds based diesel. This was also a good engine by 1981 but just like the Vega, too much damage had been done to the brand and GM could not recover. But the damage caused by GM's diesel screw-up was much further reaching than the Vega screw-up. They hurt the entire diesel car market, including Mercedes, which is why you see few Mercedes diesels around from the mid-80's on. No-one in this country but die hard diesel fans wanted a diesel from anyone by the time the air cleared around GM's disaster. I owned a 1981 Pontiac Bonniville with the Olds diesel & it was a wonderful car. I trashed the engine at 155,000 miles. I had replaced both radiator hoses & did not properly tighten the bottom radiator clamp. The hose slipped off about 2 weeks later & before I realized what was going on the engine was toast. My only complaint was that the filter would suddenly plug and when it did, you had very little power. Also, the filter was outrageously expensive. I used to keep a spare & a set of wrenches in the trunk. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: archer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:58 PM To: Tom Hargrave Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum RLE points out: "That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was used in the Porsche 944, 968 and 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the M112 V-6 in my C320. And the blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner." What was the piston skirt solution used in those engines; pistons made of the same high silicon alloy? Gerry - > From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The issue with the Vega was that the piston skirts would not hold up > against the much harder exposed silicone. The skirts would wear to the > point where the pistons would actually rock in the bores and when bad > enough, would score the cylinder walls. Some were bored out and had iron > sleeves pressed in. The softer iron was much easier on the piston > skirts. This turned out to be an expensive lesson on mismatched > materials. > Thanks, Tom > 256-656-1924 > > -Original Message- > From: "archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: 9/28/07 9:28 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum > >> < wrote: GM built a small > car; >> I >> forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon >> aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed > to >> wear well >> but they didn't.>> > >> <> > > The Vega's design fault was inadequate cooling, certainly not the > Reynolds > alloy the block was cast in. That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was > used > in the Porsche 944, 968 and 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the > M112 > V-6 in my C320. > And the blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner. > RLE > > So, if you rebuild one of those engines you simply replace the pistons, > rings, etc. since the cylinders can't be bored and oversized; or if the > cylinders are out of spec you replace the block? > Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels - head gasket oil leak
I have an external oil leak around the chain tensioner on my non turbo OM603. Should I replaced head gasket or should I wait for some catastrophic event? PEter The 60X heads were re-designed a couple times, and most of them, even the -14- heads, work fine. The -14- heads WILL crack if overheated, pretty much without exception. The oil passage problem has been cured with a re-enforced head gasket, now containing a metalized section across the oil passage. All of them can warp or collapse if seriously overheated though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Cavitation is a serious problem only in direct injection diesels with thin cylinder walls (think the large displacement Powerstrokes, not the original smaller displacement ones). The problem is that the cylinder flexes in and out with the pressure pulses of injection, causing a vapor bubble to occur in contact with the coolant side as the wall "pops" in and out. When the bubble of water vapor collapses, the impact of the water from the liquid side erodes the cast iron of the cylinder wall (or liner). Often shows up as a row of neat, exactly the same diameter holes down the liner or cast in place cylinder. Some people are convinced this is electrolysis, by the way, which it is NOT. MB has always used generous amounts of material in their block castings, and has never had a problem with cavitation. I don't remember any instances of coolant passages cracking in use to the outside as has become common in Cummins six cylinder truck diesels lately, either -- again, the problem is insufficient material, flexing due to running vibration causes the very thin cast iron to fatigue and crack (also known as stress corrosion these days). The 60X heads were re-designed a couple times, and most of them, even the -14- heads, work fine. The -14- heads WILL crack if overheated, pretty much without exception. The oil passage problem has been cured with a re-enforced head gasket, now containing a metalized section across the oil passage. All of them can warp or collapse if seriously overheated though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
The silicone wears at about 1/5 the rate of high nickel cast iron -- in MB terms, that means 2.5 million miles, average Serious overheating, though, can kill them due to lack of piston clearance. The ones I've seen, usually when getting a valve job and sent off for installation of block inserts (early 380/420/500 M116/M117 blocks) showed no wear at all, couldn't tell they weren't brand new at 250,000 miles or so, or when the 420 dropped a chain. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
archer wrote: > 1. I wonder if cavitation might play a role in the cracking of cast iron > and/or aluminum heads: Cavitation has NEVER been a problem with Mercedes indirect diesels and since ONLY the head and the head gasket were redesigned to eliminate he 603 problems I expect dealing with cavitation had NOTHING to do with making the 603.96 engines bulletproof. The original #14 heads were flawed - didn't have sufficient tolerance to handle minor system failures. Without any OTHER system failures (bad fan clutch, stuck thermostat, partially plugged trap, etc.) the heads held up pretty well. A small percentage of ALL 60x engines, 4, 5 and 6 cylinder with and without turbos did blow out the head gasket between the #1 cylinder and the chain vault allowing pressurized oil into the #1 cylinder and I've heard of a few non-trap 603.96 engine did develop cracked heads I'm told, but the total was less than a few percent if the numbers I've accumulated are representative. All of those OM60x engines were designed to be used with MB coolant and potable water. Nothing else was required if the engine was properly maintained. Driving with a partially plugged trap is driving an engine that has NOT been properly maintained. Measuring and servicing the trap is covered in the engine manual. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The Vega's design fault was inadequate cooling, certainly not the Reynolds > alloy the block was cast in. Which block did the 1976 Cosworth Vega have? I don't think the Vega/Astre had a decent reputation unless they had Pontiac 151ci Iron Duke engines in them, but it's certainly possible there was a good aluminum block in later years which failed to overcome the old block's reputation. My brother's new Vega was a '73, he overheated it on the freeway in '74 and it drank oil like crazy after that. Then his wife drove it 200 miles w/o oil and it never developed enough compression to start again. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
archer wrote: > > 2. Could Harrys good results using a waterless coolant that boils at 375 > degrees be because it does not form cavitation bubbles? I don't know, but there are anti-cavitation additives you are supposed to add to the green antifreeze in older Navistar/Ford diesels. For the last five years or so they use yellow antifreeze similar to MBZ or G-05, and I don't think that stuff needs the additive. Evans doesn't need it because you are 150+ degrees away from the boiling point. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
1. I wonder if cavitation might play a role in the cracking of cast iron and/or aluminum heads: snip."a low pressure cavitation bubble in a liquid will begin to collapse due to the higher pressure of the surrounding medium. As the bubble collapses, the pressure and temperature of the vapor within will increase. The bubble will eventually collapse to a minute fraction of its original size, at which point the gas within dissipates into the surrounding liquid via a rather violent mechanism, which releases a significant amount of energy in the form of an acoustic shock-wave and as visible light. At the point of total collapse, the temperature of the vapor within the bubble may be several thousand kelvin, and the pressure several hundred atmospheres." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Inertial_cavitation This has been (is?) a major problem in heavy duty diesel engines with wet cylinder liners when the wrong coolant was used. snip."A common occurrence of cavitation damage is the waterside pitting of a wet sleeve liner in a diesel engine"snip http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003ASAJ..114.2386C 2. Could Harrys good results using a waterless coolant that boils at 375 degrees be because it does not form cavitation bubbles? - - Original Message - From: "Harry Watkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I, as a majority of one, will again throw my support to the use of Evans > waterless antifreeze, especially if you have a #14 head. I am convinced > that with a boiling point of 375 degrees, you will escape the big repair > job. > > True story, I was 30 miles from home in my 95 Toyota pickup and noticed > the > temp needle as it was entering the red zone. I wanted to go another mile > or > so before pulling over, so I turned the heater full blast and opened all > the > windows. When I didn't get roasted by the heater, I knew the coolant had > to > be near gone so I pulled over and shut it down. > > When I opened the hood there was no steam. With rag in hand, I eased the > cap toward loose and got one small hiss and removed the cap. I carry > extra > Evans in all my vehicles so I added the half gallon available and returned > home. > > The culprit was a small coolant line going to the oil cooler that had a > small chaffed hole. > > I believe the Evans stuff saved me serious engine damage. I have it in > all > my cars except the one I bought this week, give me a week and it will be > there also. Its been in my SDL for over five years, the one with a leak > near the top of the radiator for the last three or four years. > > Now, if all of you will buy some, I'll be filthy rich. > > Signed, Harry Evans > > > On 9/28/07, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The technology works perfectly -- Benz has used it since the 380 -- GM >> typically saved money on the design against engineering opinion and >> left out the cooling passage between 1&2 and 3&4 to save money in >> casting -- the result was that even running warm in traffic, let alone >> actual overheating caused the piston clearance to vanish and the >> cylinder walls to scuff -- they typically burned a quart of oil in 200 >> miles within a year or two. When the engine was redesigned to fix the >> problem (as I said, the problem was introduced by upper management) >> they work very well. >> Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
they can be rebored, just not many places are set up to do it. They last almost forever though, ok, not forever, but a very very long time. If they are out of round, maybe something else going on? Ed 300E On 28/09/2007, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > < wrote: GM built a small > car; > > I > > forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon > > aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to > > wear well > > but they didn't.>> > > > <> > > The Vega's design fault was inadequate cooling, certainly not the Reynolds > alloy the block was cast in. That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was > used > in the Porsche 944, 968 and 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the M112 > V-6 in my C320. > And the blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner. > RLE > > So, if you rebuild one of those engines you simply replace the pistons, > rings, etc. since the cylinders can't be bored and oversized; or if the > cylinders are out of spec you replace the block? > Gerry > Gerry > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Speaking of Diesel heads vs. gas - I just noticed in the Tech Data book that the 103 engine has 12 head bolts and the 603 engine has 26 - 30 if you count those around the chain vault. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
> < wrote: GM built a small car; > I > forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon > aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to > wear well > but they didn't.>> > <> The Vega's design fault was inadequate cooling, certainly not the Reynolds alloy the block was cast in. That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was used in the Porsche 944, 968 and 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the M112 V-6 in my C320. And the blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner. RLE So, if you rebuild one of those engines you simply replace the pistons, rings, etc. since the cylinders can't be bored and oversized; or if the cylinders are out of spec you replace the block? Gerry Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum
> < wrote: GM built a small car; I > forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon > aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to > wear well > but they didn't.>> > > <> > The Vega's design fault was inadequate cooling, certainly not the Reynolds alloy the block was cast in. That very same Reynolds Aluminum alloy was used in the Porsche 944, 968 and 928 not to mention Mercedes V-8s and the M112 V-6 in my C320. And the blocks last nearly forever unless neglected by the owner. RLE ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
I, as a majority of one, will again throw my support to the use of Evans waterless antifreeze, especially if you have a #14 head. I am convinced that with a boiling point of 375 degrees, you will escape the big repair job. True story, I was 30 miles from home in my 95 Toyota pickup and noticed the temp needle as it was entering the red zone. I wanted to go another mile or so before pulling over, so I turned the heater full blast and opened all the windows. When I didn't get roasted by the heater, I knew the coolant had to be near gone so I pulled over and shut it down. When I opened the hood there was no steam. With rag in hand, I eased the cap toward loose and got one small hiss and removed the cap. I carry extra Evans in all my vehicles so I added the half gallon available and returned home. The culprit was a small coolant line going to the oil cooler that had a small chaffed hole. I believe the Evans stuff saved me serious engine damage. I have it in all my cars except the one I bought this week, give me a week and it will be there also. Its been in my SDL for over five years, the one with a leak near the top of the radiator for the last three or four years. Now, if all of you will buy some, I'll be filthy rich. Signed, Harry Evans On 9/28/07, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The technology works perfectly -- Benz has used it since the 380 -- GM > typically saved money on the design against engineering opinion and > left out the cooling passage between 1&2 and 3&4 to save money in > casting -- the result was that even running warm in traffic, let alone > actual overheating caused the piston clearance to vanish and the > cylinder walls to scuff -- they typically burned a quart of oil in 200 > miles within a year or two. When the engine was redesigned to fix the > problem (as I said, the problem was introduced by upper management) > they work very well. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
The technology works perfectly -- Benz has used it since the 380 -- GM typically saved money on the design against engineering opinion and left out the cooling passage between 1&2 and 3&4 to save money in casting -- the result was that even running warm in traffic, let alone actual overheating caused the piston clearance to vanish and the cylinder walls to scuff -- they typically burned a quart of oil in 200 miles within a year or two. When the engine was redesigned to fix the problem (as I said, the problem was introduced by upper management) they work very well. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Dan Weeks wrote: >> Wow. So the thing has an aluminum head? >> If the stupid thing can't take a minute at 120C or so, then I'm not >> sure it's such a good car afterall. >> Virtually all of the 1st generation aluminum diesel heads (from almost all Euro car makes) were less than spectacularly robust (especially those with turbo equipped engines) and considerably more likely to fail than older engines with iron heads. The 2nd and third generation heads were virtually as durable as the iron heads. The Mercedes heads used in 603.96 engines (1986 Federal certified 126.125s) that were not equipped with factory oxidation traps were very much less likely to crack than the '86 California and '87 Federal cars were all trap equipped. The problem wasn't that the head wouldn't stand 120 deg C, but that it wouldn't tolerate prolonged coolant boiling which requires about 4X the heat to move the coolant through the the phase change window. Trap equipped cars that were largely city driven in stop and go driving experienced a large number cracked heads (between 20-25% by my count). This was because a partially blocked trap (very common in city driven cars) exposed the engine to temperature extremes in stop and go driving with the AC on. If the head didn't crack, once the trap was remove the frequency of head failure dropped, but did NOT vanish. That's because often the head would actually crack under the excessive trap generated heat, but didn't fail until the head was disturbed (like by pulling the head, replacing the head gasket or being seriously overheated). I own an '87 300TD and the service I've received from the 603.96 engine has been exemplary - super car, super engine, super service. If it were to fail tomorrow, It has been the most satisfactory car I've ever owned (but hardly the cheapest to own) for the 20+ years I've owned it! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
It's a wonder the engines lasted longer than the cars; although, I understand the few that are left are in high demand by drag racers for some reason. --R archer wrote: >> On 9/28/07, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> GM built a small car; I forget its name; which had aluminum >>> blocks/heads made of high silicon aluminum IIRC. The high silicon >>> aluminum >>> cylinder walls were supposed to wear well but they didn't. >>> >> Wasn't that the Vega? BMW had the same problem with the 3-liter and >> 4-liter V-8s in '94 and '95 5-series and 7-series cars. Never heard >> of any head problems with those, but many people got a free short >> block under an extended warranty (with redesigned cylinder liners made >> of a new, improved alloy). >> > - > I think that was the Vega. It seems like GM installed steel liners in the > Vega engines as a fix. > Steel can be heat-treated to take the stresses out of forgings and molded > parts but I've forgotten whether aluminum and cast iron can be heat-treated. > It would seem like heat-treating aluminum heads (if that's possible) would > decrease the likelyhood of cracking. > Gerry > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
> On 9/28/07, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> GM built a small car; I forget its name; which had aluminum >> blocks/heads made of high silicon aluminum IIRC. The high silicon >> aluminum >> cylinder walls were supposed to wear well but they didn't. > > Wasn't that the Vega? BMW had the same problem with the 3-liter and > 4-liter V-8s in '94 and '95 5-series and 7-series cars. Never heard > of any head problems with those, but many people got a free short > block under an extended warranty (with redesigned cylinder liners made > of a new, improved alloy). - I think that was the Vega. It seems like GM installed steel liners in the Vega engines as a fix. Steel can be heat-treated to take the stresses out of forgings and molded parts but I've forgotten whether aluminum and cast iron can be heat-treated. It would seem like heat-treating aluminum heads (if that's possible) would decrease the likelyhood of cracking. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
I had a 74 Vega with the aluminum block engine. I think that the head was cast iron. The problem with the aluminum block in that case was that there were no sleeves. The block was a high silicon content aluminum. The aluminum was etched back to leave the silicon as the wear surface. Unfortunately, these engines were prone to overheating (too little radiator? ). If overheated, then the cylinder was ofter damaged and there was no means of repair in the field. The block could not be bored out and honed and re-used as there was no way to etch the aluminum back as had happened at the factory. I live in Winnipeg and I assume that the cooler temperatures here on the Canadian prairies may have saved me as I drove one for several years with no engine problems. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of archer Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:29 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels In that case, aluminum heads mated with aluminum blocks should have less problems. GM built a small car; I forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to wear well but they didn't. Do aluminum block Japanese engines have steel piston liners or are they built like the GM engines? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
On 9/28/07, archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > GM built a small car; I forget its name; which had aluminum > blocks/heads made of high silicon aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum > cylinder walls were supposed to wear well but they didn't. Wasn't that the Vega? BMW had the same problem with the 3-liter and 4-liter V-8s in '94 and '95 5-series and 7-series cars. Never heard of any head problems with those, but many people got a free short block under an extended warranty (with redesigned cylinder liners made of a new, improved alloy). Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
In that case, aluminum heads mated with aluminum blocks should have less problems. GM built a small car; I forget its name; which had aluminum blocks/heads made of high silicon aluminum IIRC. The high silicon aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to wear well but they didn't. Do aluminum block Japanese engines have steel piston liners or are they built like the GM engines? Gerry - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Iron heads & iron blocks expand by the same amount when heated. Aluminum > grows faster than iron when heated. This is why cracking aluminum heads on > a > iron blocks is such a problem. > On Behalf Of Peter Merle > Iron heads are not immune to cracking , I had done , history unknown > though. Perhaps their tolarance level is a bit higher. > From: OK Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yup - same as my 603 in the 300SDL --- >> Love my 617 with nearly 300k >> miles and the original head and head gasket. >> Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
On 9/28/07, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm personally surprised the 603 heads were so much of a > problem though -- Benz has been using aluminum heads on gassers since > the 50's. > Surely the much higher compression ratio was a factor? Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Cast iron isn't immune to cracking problems either -- MB had fits in the 60's when they decided to do their own rather than contract the design in a rather ham-fisted corperate re-arrangement. It was so bad they were forced by the German courts to give a 50,000 mile warrenty against cracked heads on the diesels. Aluminum has several advantages over cast iron for heads -- it's much lighter, it's easier to machine (all MB heads have had hardened steel valve guides and valve seats since the 1930s, and it's much easier to cast intricate cooling passages in, leading to higher horsepower output with better cooling passages and better heat transfer. It is much softer than cast iron, though, and can fatigue crack much more, though. I'm personally surprised the 603 heads were so much of a problem though -- Benz has been using aluminum heads on gassers since the 50's. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
> Iron heads & iron blocks expand by the same amount when heated. > Aluminum > grows faster than iron when heated. This is why cracking aluminum > heads on a > iron blocks is such a problem. I believe that for head gasket problems, but the head cracking itself I'm less able to envision. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Iron heads & iron blocks expand by the same amount when heated. Aluminum grows faster than iron when heated. This is why cracking aluminum heads on a iron blocks is such a problem. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Merle Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 2:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels Iron heads are not immune to cracking , I had done , history unknown though. Perhaps their tolarance level is a bit higher. PEter -Original Message- From: OK Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 September 2007 03:27 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels Yup - same as my 603 in the 300SDL --- > Love my 617 with nearly 300k > miles and the original head and head gasket. > > Dan -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Iron heads are not immune to cracking , I had done , history unknown though. Perhaps their tolarance level is a bit higher. PEter -Original Message- From: OK Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 September 2007 03:27 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels Yup - same as my 603 in the 300SDL --- > Love my 617 with nearly 300k > miles and the original head and head gasket. > > Dan -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
Yup - same as my 603 in the 300SDL --- > Love my 617 with nearly 300k > miles and the original head and head gasket. > > Dan -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
>> You mean to tell me that it is >> literally that easy to destroy a Mercedes Benz? > Or anything else with an aluminum head. > -- Jim > Yeah--just ask any long-time VW or Peugeot (that dates me!) diesel > owner. All aluminum-head diesels seem to eventually crack and/or > warp. My brother the diesel mechanic thinks its thermal shock. Over > and over and over, and you get cracks. The heads literally just wear > out from cracking, and you need a new one every 150k miles or so. > I've owned 3 VW d's, and every one of 'em has cracked a head, even > with no overheating. And the Peugeot 504D--hell of a car. I'd take it > over a 240D. Wonderfully engineered, with wet liners and everything. > But a damned aluminum head. After you could no longer get parts for > them over here, you had a lawn ornament. Love my 617 with nearly 300k > miles and the original head and head gasket. > Dan -- Years ago I knew a semi-retired mechanic, Oscar, who had been chief mechanic at (Warshawskis?) shop in Chicago. At that time Peugeot gas engines (504s?) were still around and still famous for their durability. Both the Russian (Moskva taxis?) and Japanese Toyota had copied them for their cars. (You could set that Peugeot engine alongside a Toyota engine and could barely tell them apart.) Peugeot had come out with their first aluminum head diesels, which I was dubious about because of experience with VW Beetle heads warping and aircraft engines being damaged from shock cooling. Oscar thought the Peugeot aluminum head diesels would hold up fine because of Peugeots reputation for expert engineering and I didn't. They didn't, and Peugeot re-engineered them; but it hurt their reputation. It was one of the few times Oscar was wrong and I was right. He was one of the most knowledgeable mechanics I've ever known. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Aluminum Head Diesels
> Wow. So the thing has an aluminum head? > If the stupid thing can't take a minute at 120C or so, then I'm not > sure it's such a good car afterall. > That is why we often recommend the more bulletproof 61X iron motors used in the 123 and such. The 60X is a superior motor in everything but tolerance to overheating. > You mean to tell me that it is > literally that easy to destroy a Mercedes Benz? > Or anything else with an aluminum head. -- Jim Yeah--just ask any long-time VW or Peugeot (that dates me!) diesel owner. All aluminum-head diesels seem to eventually crack and/or warp. My brother the diesel mechanic thinks its thermal shock. Over and over and over, and you get cracks. The heads literally just wear out from cracking, and you need a new one every 150k miles or so. I've owned 3 VW d's, and every one of 'em has cracked a head, even with no overheating. And the Peugeot 504D--hell of a car. I'd take it over a 240D. Wonderfully engineered, with wet liners and everything. But a damned aluminum head. After you could no longer get parts for them over here, you had a lawn ornament. Love my 617 with nearly 300k miles and the original head and head gasket. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
I think it is only the diesel 126s. I have a 500SEL rust bucket that defiantly does not.. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig McCluskey Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid? On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:41:57 -0500 "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are a lot of 116 and 126 cars in use today that have steelhoods > and trunk lids, after body repairs, as most shops use steel > replacements for the original aluminum hoods. That's a good check to > see if the car has been in a wreck! Do all the 126 cars have aluminum hoods and trunk lids? Any exceptions? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:41:57 -0500 "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are a lot of 116 and 126 cars in use today that have steelhoods > and trunk lids, after body repairs, as most shops use steel > replacements for the original aluminum hoods. That's a good check to > see if the car has been in a wreck! Do all the 126 cars have aluminum hoods and trunk lids? Any exceptions? Craig
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
Kevin, The W116 300SD also had aluminum hood and trunk lid. No replacement aluminum hoods/trunk lids were/are available in US AFAIK. All gasser versions had steel. Purpose was to reduce overall weight inasmuch as the 617.95x engines were heavier than gas 450SE's. Take care, Chuck Phoenix AZ On Jan 9, 2007, at 1:52 AM, kevin kraly wrote: I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true for other Mercedes models? Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
There are a lot of 116 and 126 cars in use today that have steelhoods and trunk lids, after body repairs, as most shops use steel replacements for the original aluminum hoods. That's a good check to see if the car has been in a wreck! Werner - Original Message - From: "Glenn M. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid? My '76 450SL has an aluminum hood, but steel trunk lid. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY
[MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
My '76 450SL has an aluminum hood, but steel trunk lid. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
The w107 line changed from steel to aluminum hoods and trunk lids in the middle of '81 with the introduction of the 380SL and SLC in the US - both the lighter parts and the smaller engine were to improve fuel economy. > I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' > have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and > trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true > for other Mercedes models? > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
The w116 and w126 turbodiesels had aluminum hoods and trunklids to reduce weight a bit. mac on 1/9/07 3:52 AM, kevin kraly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' > have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and > trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true > for other Mercedes models? > > Kevin in Hillsboro, OR > 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true for other Mercedes models? Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum vs cast iron, I guess
<> Wrong. Weight is certainly one thing, but with a silicon aluminum block (used by Porsche and MB and others for decades) bore wear is nearly non-existent in normal service. RLE
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
Hyperutecnic {is the term} US piston manufactures have been making
hyperutecnic pistons for about 10 years. High silicon content allows for
closer piton to wall clearance thus producing less emissions. The piston is
stronger than a cast piston but not as strong as a forged piston. Will
withstand more detonation.
My 380SEL with 487,000 miles is still standard aluminum bore size as is the
crank std./std.
Adios Don
On 9/11/05, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Actually, the casting process that is still in use -- the alloy is
> essentially saturated with silicon, and the bores are cooled while the
> rest of the block is kept hot. This causes some the silicon to
> crystalize out in the bore area. When the bores are machined, they
> have a surface with a large amount of silicon exposed. The aluminum
> surrounding the silicon is then etched away, leaving a very hard,
> porous surface.
>
> It should wear at a rate less than 1/5 the rate of high nickel cast
> iron of the type used in MB sleeves on cast iron engines, and in fact,
> if not abused, will last as long as the car if not longer.
>
> The problem with the Vega was insufficient cooling passages and a solid
> casting between the two sets of cylinder pairs (between 1-2 and 3-4) --
> if the engine got too hot the block expanded in this area and piston
> clearance vanished. The scuffing that resulted caused terrible oil
> consumption problems, as anyone old enough remembers. Even being a
> little bit low on coolant in slow traffic could cause this.
>
> It was cured, simply enough, by re-designing the block to include
> cooling passages between the cylinder pairs and reducing the thickness
> of the bore casting in a few other places so the pistons didn't get
> "pinched". Bad engineering, or to put it better, not getting the
> design finished before production started. Later Vegas are still
> running, if the body is intact (another whole discussion --they rusted
> so badly it was scary!)
>
> Peter
> On Saturday, September 10, 2005, at 10:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > <,The casting process is alive and well -- Rover uses it on an old GM
> > aluminum block V8 (the Buick one from 1960 or so) and Benz uses it in
> > all their engines these days, so there is nothing wrong with the
> > technology. GM just failed to do the design correctly.>>
> >
> > Actually, what is shared to this day by Mercedes (and Porsche) from
> > the poor old Vega is the Reynolds aluminum alloy, not the "casting"
> > process which is entirely different, particularly at Porsche. As to
> > Rover (BMW), they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8
> > for BMW power.
> >
> > RLE/Seattle
> >
> > ___
> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>
>
> ___
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>
>
>
--
Don & Teresa Merriman
Market Place Mexico
Vacation Rentals
Property Administration
www.marketplacemexico.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
Actually, the casting process that is still in use -- the alloy is essentially saturated with silicon, and the bores are cooled while the rest of the block is kept hot. This causes some the silicon to crystalize out in the bore area. When the bores are machined, they have a surface with a large amount of silicon exposed. The aluminum surrounding the silicon is then etched away, leaving a very hard, porous surface. It should wear at a rate less than 1/5 the rate of high nickel cast iron of the type used in MB sleeves on cast iron engines, and in fact, if not abused, will last as long as the car if not longer. The problem with the Vega was insufficient cooling passages and a solid casting between the two sets of cylinder pairs (between 1-2 and 3-4) -- if the engine got too hot the block expanded in this area and piston clearance vanished. The scuffing that resulted caused terrible oil consumption problems, as anyone old enough remembers. Even being a little bit low on coolant in slow traffic could cause this. It was cured, simply enough, by re-designing the block to include cooling passages between the cylinder pairs and reducing the thickness of the bore casting in a few other places so the pistons didn't get "pinched". Bad engineering, or to put it better, not getting the design finished before production started. Later Vegas are still running, if the body is intact (another whole discussion --they rusted so badly it was scary!) Peter On Saturday, September 10, 2005, at 10:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: <,The casting process is alive and well -- Rover uses it on an old GM aluminum block V8 (the Buick one from 1960 or so) and Benz uses it in all their engines these days, so there is nothing wrong with the technology. GM just failed to do the design correctly.>> Actually, what is shared to this day by Mercedes (and Porsche) from the poor old Vega is the Reynolds aluminum alloy, not the "casting" process which is entirely different, particularly at Porsche. As to Rover (BMW), they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8 for BMW power. RLE/Seattle ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
or me. On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:00:31 -0500, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's OK - we only pay attention to typos and spelling errors when Kaleb makes them -- -- On 9/10/05, Rory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That would be "throughout" -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '83 300SD (happily running WVO/diesel mix) '82 300CD (Slate grey, black MBTex, WVO/D mix) '82 300D '90 300E (both parts or can run??)
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
It's OK - we only pay attention to typos and spelling errors when Kaleb makes them -- -- On 9/10/05, Rory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That would be "throughout" > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC The FSM created the Diesel Benz http://www.venganza.org/
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
That would be "throughout" They've recently abandoned the BMW engines in favor of Jaguar engines > thorughout the line. > -- > Rory Morrison > Oroville, WA > 1985 300SD > 1982 300TD >
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
> "they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8 for BMW power" They've recently abandoned the BMW engines in favor of Jaguar engines thorughout the line. -- Rory Morrison Oroville, WA 1985 300SD 1982 300TD
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As to Rover (BMW), they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8 for BMW power. << Sign ze papers, herr Rover Direcktor, or Auntie in Barston Vells eest KAPUT!. >> Mac
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
Is MB building any aluminum block Diesels? The old Buick V8 (the turbo version with a hotter cam, headers, 4 barrel, minus the dead turbo) sure pushed my MGA plenty fast. It didn't have good oil to the cam - everyone I saw (4?) had the same three lobes worn severely. Yes, a modern BMW engine would be far superior, but the old Buick could be a nice engine for it's time. Steve Wittman used one (inverted) in his Tailwind -- flew many hours behind it. On 9/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <,The casting process is alive and well -- Rover uses it on an old GM > aluminum block V8 (the Buick one from 1960 or so) and Benz uses it in > all their engines these days, so there is nothing wrong with the > technology. GM just failed to do the design correctly.>> > > Actually, what is shared to this day by Mercedes (and Porsche) from the > poor old Vega is the Reynolds aluminum alloy, not the "casting" process > which is entirely different, particularly at Porsche. As to Rover (BMW), > they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8 for BMW power. > > RLE/Seattle -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC The FSM created the Diesel Benz http://www.venganza.org/
[MBZ] Aluminum blocks, here we go yet again
<,The casting process is alive and well -- Rover uses it on an old GM aluminum block V8 (the Buick one from 1960 or so) and Benz uses it in all their engines these days, so there is nothing wrong with the technology. GM just failed to do the design correctly.>> Actually, what is shared to this day by Mercedes (and Porsche) from the poor old Vega is the Reynolds aluminum alloy, not the "casting" process which is entirely different, particularly at Porsche. As to Rover (BMW), they have abandoned the underpowered old GM designed V-8 for BMW power. RLE/Seattle
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum block V6 MB diesel...200, 000+ per year estimated - interesting
And don't forget the second article: http://www.hydro.com/en/press_room/news/archive/no_news_view/v6_engine_facts_en.html Tim 1982 300TD Moby On 8/10/05, Christopher McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.hydro.com/en/press_room/news/archive/2005_02/mercedes_engineblock_en.html
[MBZ] Aluminum block V6 MB diesel...200, 000+ per year estimated - interesting
http://www.hydro.com/en/press_room/news/archive/2005_02/mercedes_engineblock_en.html Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri -1985 300SD, 208K miles, "Wulf" (http://www.pictureblogger.com/My-1985-Mercedes-Benz-300SD) -1976 240D, ManyK miles, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle) -1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, "The Van" __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
