[MBZ] B-52 Calamity Jane WUZ: Oil Extractor

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

WIlton, good to hear from you!

Keep meaning to as if you ever flew or flew aboard B-52 Calamity Jane 
USAF 5500071



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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That was a test to see if anyone was paying attention. You pass.

On Aug 11, 2016 8:09 PM, "Mountain Man via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Andrew wrote:
> > I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all
>
> There you go again.  Too much Hillary.
> ...hilarity...  Hillary
> ;-)
> mao
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Andrew wrote:
> I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all

There you go again.  Too much Hillary.
...hilarity...  Hillary
;-)
mao

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:45 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Yup - I don't even like electric flaps or retractable gear - - -
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> > piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the
> lowest
> > bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> > exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> > functional...
> >
> > Yep...
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the
> F-16
> > > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> > various
> > > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> > sort
> > > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> > >
> > > --FT
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
> >  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly
> the
> >  beasts.
> > 
> > >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> > >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> > >>> robotic)
> > >>>
> > >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of
> gravity
> > on
> > >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or
> even a
> > >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's
> almost
> > >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> > >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Craig
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > --
> > > --FT
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Yup - I don't even like electric flaps or retractable gear - - -

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
> bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> functional...
>
> Yep...
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> various
> > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> sort
> > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
>  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
>  beasts.
> 
> >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> >>> robotic)
> >>>
> >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity
> on
> >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
> >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
> >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That's sort of the way I feel while reading 90 percent of the posts on this
list.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
> bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> functional...
>
> Yep...
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> various
> > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> sort
> > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
>  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
>  beasts.
> 
> >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> >>> robotic)
> >>>
> >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity
> on
> >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
> >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
> >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
functional...

Yep...

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were various
> aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that sort
> of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
>
> --FT
>
>
> On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
 actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
 beasts.

>>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
>>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
>>> robotic)
>>>
>> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
>> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
>> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
>> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
>> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> --
> --FT
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have 
some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16 
prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA 
Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were 
various aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with 
that sort of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft 
enhances its maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy 
things a fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!


--FT


On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:




It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
beasts.

Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
robotic)

For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.


Craig

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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> 
> 
> > It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s 
> > actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the 
> > beasts.
>
> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> robotic)

For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.


Craig

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[MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s 
actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the 
beasts.
Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor inputs 
allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely robotic)


Curley McLain 
August 11, 2016 at 10:31 AM

The guys who believe software can/should run everything seldom have to 
live with the consequences of those decisions.


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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[WILTON via Mercedes]

On that day in April, 1952, a month before I graduated from high school, 
when I saw an article and photo about the first flight of a B-52, little did 
I think that it would become such a large part of my life or that, a little 
more than 20 years later, I would use them to help end a war.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Max Dillon" <dillonm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52


Yes, but when the Grey Lady includes factually incorrect statements like 
this "Even after millions of tons of bombs were dropped in far corners of 
the world, most foes targeted by the bomber, including those in Iraq, 
Afghanistan and Vietnam, ultimately prevailed."  Political will (or rather 
a lack there of) allowed the enemy to prevail in one case and survive in 
the other cases.  Nothing to do with the effectiveness of the bomber.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 6, 2015 2:06:27 AM EST, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

This is interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[WILTON via Mercedes]

No, merely very powerful turbojets.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Rich Thomas" <richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52



"the even faster B-70 (spewed highly toxic exhaust)."

Was this a nuclear fission engine?

--R

On 12/6/15 2:06 AM, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes wrote:

This is interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I did not know that.  Very interesting.  Learn something new every day.

--R

On 12/6/15 12:24 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


"the even faster B-70 (spewed highly toxic exhaust)."

Was this a nuclear fission engine?

--R

On 12/6/15 2:06 AM, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes wrote:


This is interesting


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_fuel

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> "the even faster B-70 (spewed highly toxic exhaust)."
>
> Was this a nuclear fission engine?
>
> --R
>
> On 12/6/15 2:06 AM, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> This is interesting
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> xx rick
>> Rick Hawkins
>>
>> ___
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>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>
>>
>>
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

"the even faster B-70 (spewed highly toxic exhaust)."

Was this a nuclear fission engine?

--R

On 12/6/15 2:06 AM, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes wrote:

This is interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Thanks for adding some color to that, I knew that but my email was wrong in
that respect.  I guess I just get so PO'd at the PC/revisionist statements
in articles like that I stop thinking straight.

I do love the comments about "when the BUFF shows up, many times the enemy
will decide they don't want to fight and flee."
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:52 PM, WILTON via Mercedes 
wrote:


 After political restraints were finally removed from B-52 activity over N.
 Vietnam on 18 Dec 72, it took less than 11 days for B-52's to force N.
 Vietnam to beg to sign an agreement, something they were reluctant to do

 > during the previous 15 years or so of our involvement.


Yep, I thinking too of Sadman's esteemed "aris al-'Irq al-Jamhriyy 
al-Khas", that our ministry of democratic proaganda drilled into us 
were "crack" units and how they ran away when they were subjected to 
"the treatment" for a few days.

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[WILTON via Mercedes]

After political restraints were finally removed from B-52 activity over N. 
Vietnam on 18 Dec 72, it took less than 11 days for B-52's to force N. 
Vietnam to beg to sign an agreement, something they were reluctant to do 
during the previous 15 years or so of our involvement.  Everybody signed, 
"we" came home, and coupla years later Congress gave it all away by refusing 
to provide any more aid to S Viet.  This, in effect, told N. Viet, "You may 
do whatever you want without any interference from US."


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Max Dillon" <dillonm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52


Yes, but when the Grey Lady includes factually incorrect statements like 
this "Even after millions of tons of bombs were dropped in far corners of 
the world, most foes targeted by the bomber, including those in Iraq, 
Afghanistan and Vietnam, ultimately prevailed."  Political will (or rather 
a lack there of) allowed the enemy to prevail in one case and survive in 
the other cases.  Nothing to do with the effectiveness of the bomber.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 6, 2015 2:06:27 AM EST, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

This is interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Well, having lived the real thing, it's hard for me to stay quiet and listen
to the revisionist BS, too.

Wilton




Don't even think about staying quiet!   Speak out and correct the 
revisionist BS like the swift boat guys did several years ago.


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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Well, having lived the real thing, it's hard for me to stay quiet and listen
to the revisionist BS, too.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Meade Dillon" <dillonm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52



Thanks for adding some color to that, I knew that but my email was wrong
in
that respect.  I guess I just get so PO'd at the PC/revisionist statements
in articles like that I stop thinking straight.

I do love the comments about "when the BUFF shows up, many times the enemy
will decide they don't want to fight and flee."
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:52 PM, WILTON via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:


After political restraints were finally removed from B-52 activity over
N.
Vietnam on 18 Dec 72, it took less than 11 days for B-52's to force N.
Vietnam to beg to sign an agreement, something they were reluctant to do
during the previous 15 years or so of our involvement.  Everybody signed,
"we" came home, and coupla years later Congress gave it all away by
refusing to provide any more aid to S Viet.  This, in effect, told N.
Viet,
"You may do whatever you want without any interference from US."

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Max Dillon via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Max Dillon" <dillonm...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52


Yes, but when the Grey Lady includes factually incorrect statements like

this "Even after millions of tons of bombs were dropped in far corners
of
the world, most foes targeted by the bomber, including those in Iraq,
Afghanistan and Vietnam, ultimately prevailed."  Political will (or
rather
a lack there of) allowed the enemy to prevail in one case and survive in
the other cases.  Nothing to do with the effectiveness of the bomber.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300



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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Thanks for adding some color to that, I knew that but my email was wrong in
that respect.  I guess I just get so PO'd at the PC/revisionist statements
in articles like that I stop thinking straight.

I do love the comments about "when the BUFF shows up, many times the enemy
will decide they don't want to fight and flee."
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:52 PM, WILTON via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> After political restraints were finally removed from B-52 activity over N.
> Vietnam on 18 Dec 72, it took less than 11 days for B-52's to force N.
> Vietnam to beg to sign an agreement, something they were reluctant to do
> during the previous 15 years or so of our involvement.  Everybody signed,
> "we" came home, and coupla years later Congress gave it all away by
> refusing to provide any more aid to S Viet.  This, in effect, told N. Viet,
> "You may do whatever you want without any interference from US."
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Max Dillon via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: "Max Dillon" <dillonm...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 2:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52
>
>
> Yes, but when the Grey Lady includes factually incorrect statements like
>> this "Even after millions of tons of bombs were dropped in far corners of
>> the world, most foes targeted by the bomber, including those in Iraq,
>> Afghanistan and Vietnam, ultimately prevailed."  Political will (or rather
>> a lack there of) allowed the enemy to prevail in one case and survive in
>> the other cases.  Nothing to do with the effectiveness of the bomber.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, but when the Grey Lady includes factually incorrect statements like this 
"Even after millions of tons of bombs were dropped in far corners of the world, 
most foes targeted by the bomber, including those in Iraq, Afghanistan and 
Vietnam, ultimately prevailed."  Political will (or rather a lack there of) 
allowed the enemy to prevail in one case and survive in the other cases.  
Nothing to do with the effectiveness of the bomber.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 6, 2015 2:06:27 AM EST, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>This is interesting
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook
>
>
>thanks,
>
>xx rick
>Rick Hawkins
>
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>
>To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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[MBZ] B-52

[Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes]

This is interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/b-52s-us-air-force-bombers.html?mwrsm=Facebook


thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Hey, it is much easier for us.
There are not as many of us as there are of you folks south of the 
border.


Plus, only hafom speak English...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 22/08/2014 10:10 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

So you're not like Canadians?  You know, everybody knows each other, eh?

grin

Dan it's late and I'm getting punchy




Hey, it is much easier for us.
There are not as many of us as there are of you folks south of the border.

Randy

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[MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Is the B-52 pilot community small and tight for your generation of B-52 pilots?
My son has his FAA check rides in ABQ with an FAA guy whose name is
John Wagner and John Wagner used to fly B-52 and John Wagner is around
77 years old.  Perhaps you know John Wagner?
...just curious...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[Hendrik and Fay via Mercedes]

What was that fellas name again?

Hendrik
who did not fly B-52s or anything else for that matter

On 23/08/14 10:50, Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote:

Is the B-52 pilot community small and tight for your generation of B-52 pilots?
My son has his FAA check rides in ABQ with an FAA guy whose name is
John Wagner and John Wagner used to fly B-52 and John Wagner is around
77 years old.  Perhaps you know John Wagner?
...just curious...
mao



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Re: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[WILTON via Mercedes]

There are many.  'Never met John Wagner; 'sorry.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:20 PM
Subject: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON


Is the B-52 pilot community small and tight for your generation of B-52 
pilots?

My son has his FAA check rides in ABQ with an FAA guy whose name is
John Wagner and John Wagner used to fly B-52 and John Wagner is around
77 years old.  Perhaps you know John Wagner?
...just curious...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

So you're not like Canadians?  You know, everybody knows each other, eh?

grin

Dan it's late and I'm getting punchy


On Aug 22, 2014, at 11:05 PM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 There are many.  'Never met John Wagner; 'sorry.
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:20 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] B-52 question for WILTON
 
 
 Is the B-52 pilot community small and tight for your generation of B-52 
 pilots?
 My son has his FAA check rides in ABQ with an FAA guy whose name is
 John Wagner and John Wagner used to fly B-52 and John Wagner is around
 77 years old.  Perhaps you know John Wagner?
 ...just curious...
 mao
 
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[MBZ] B-52 strkes

[WILTON via Mercedes]

I'm 'bout ready to volunteer my services for BUFF strikes on ISIL.

Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I think one would do the job, if done properly.

--R


On 8/21/14 2:37 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

I'm 'bout ready to volunteer my services for BUFF strikes on ISIL.

Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎Not_going_to_happen...

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
  Original Message  
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 1:41 PM
To: WILTON; Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Rich Thomas
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

I think one would do the job, if done properly.

--R


On 8/21/14 2:37 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:
 I'm 'bout ready to volunteer my services for BUFF strikes on ISIL.

 Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

[WILTON via Mercedes]

Yep, one probably could.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rick Knoble via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes



‎Not_going_to_happen...

Rick
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 1:41 PM
To: WILTON; Mercedes Discussion List
Reply To: Rich Thomas
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

I think one would do the job, if done properly.

--R


On 8/21/14 2:37 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

I'm 'bout ready to volunteer my services for BUFF strikes on ISIL.

Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

[G Mann via Mercedes]

B 52's still nuke capable?  That just might work... I'll buy the fuel
for take off.. ha.


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:45 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:

 Yep, one probably could.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:42 PM

 Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes


  ‎Not_going_to_happen...

 Rick
 Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
 Original Message
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes
 Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 1:41 PM
 To: WILTON; Mercedes Discussion List
 Reply To: Rich Thomas
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

 I think one would do the job, if done properly.

 --R


 On 8/21/14 2:37 PM, WILTON via Mercedes wrote:

 I'm 'bout ready to volunteer my services for BUFF strikes on ISIL.

 Wilton
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 strkes

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Rick wrote:
 ‎Not_going_to_happen...

Let's say it again.
Not_going_to_happen...
I don't want to see it.
The remainder of the planet will stand around spouting words of wisdom
as they wring their hands.
mao

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[MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Gerry Archer]

The B-52 has been in active service with the USAF since 1955. As of 2012, 58 
remain in service with nine in reserve. The bombers flew under the Strategic 
Air Command (SAC) until it was inactivated in 1992 and its aircraft absorbed 
into the Air Combat Command (ACC); in 2010 all B-52 Stratofortresses were 
transferred from the ACC to the new Air Force Global Strike Command (AFGSC). 
Superior performance at high subsonic speeds and relatively low operating 
costs have kept the B-52 in service despite the advent of later aircraft, 
including the canceled Mach 3 North American XB-70 Valkyrie, the 
variable-geometry Rockwell B-1B Lancer, and the stealth Northrop Grumman B-2 
Spirit. The B-52 marked its 50th anniversary of continuous service with its 
original operator in 2005 and after being upgraded between 2013 and 2015 it 
will serve into the 2040s.snip


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress

Gerry

From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com
B-52H's, only ones still in use, have always had turbofans -- TF-33; 17000 
lbs trust; low, of course, with other, modern engines producing 90 - 100 
klbs, etc.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Asiana


There were dozens of attempts to replace the KC-135, but somehow it 
never happened, I suspect mainly because they were all new rather 
overcomplicated designs and everyone kept wanting to refuel vast  number 
of supersonic bombers we had no use for.  Just like the reason  the B-52 
still has 1950's turbojets instead of bypass engines (twice  the power, 
half the fuel use, etc) -- no one could ever make a decision.


My brother did quite a bit of design work on GE's military engines to 
reduce failure rate and improve operations, and in the time he was  there 
not one single change was accepted because it would interrupt  supply 
systems.  I can see that to a certain point, but not to the  point on 
paralysis.


The main reason the DC-10 was selected over the L1011 or B747 as the  new 
tanker was GE -- they were pissed off that neither Boeing nor  Lockheed 
chose the CFM-6 for their widebodies (they wanted to put all  the other 
engine makers out of business and have a monopoly), and  having way too 
much political pull, nixed everything but the airframe  they had an 
exclusive engine supply for.  Less than stellar engine for  many years, 
caused several crashes (some genius decided that since  they never made 
bad parts it was unnecessary to x-ray finished  parts, with the result 
that a large number of turbine disks had  internal defects resulting in 
engine explosions -- the rear engine on  Ship one blew up and shed the 
entire turbine assembly, luckily by  flying out the rear without airframe 
damage, on the initial test  flight according to gossip).  It's fine now, 
I think, but they are all  much better than the old jets.


The main problem is way too much money, just like the main problem  with 
the NSA getting all phone records -- the contractors are  absorbing a 
vast portion of the US economy for no reason at all except  to get filthy 
rich.


Ah, politics!

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Peter Frederick]

The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an  
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  
ICBM became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  
load aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  
equipment because all the replacements were supposed to be  
supersonic, super performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  
nuclear bomber, and have not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  
heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a good idea.


The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  
to the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  
times on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  
arrival would be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  
squadrons of KC135's waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  
operational criteria (notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  
numbers, Kennedy cancelled the program -- it was never going to be  
able to perform as required, and delivering a nuclear weapon six or  
eight hours after then end of the world was stupid.


Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  
the concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  
B1, also cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  
was no reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  
Reagan Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  
subsonic strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  
became the champion hanger queens until the B2 came along -- that  
one was the revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  
flying wing.  By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  
B2 can fly almost as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  
takes a couple months to change engines because the stealth coating  
has to be chipped off, cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.


A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the  
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.


Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[WILTON]

B-70 was built as designed - to go very fast very high; Soviets at same time 
developed surface-to-air (SAM's) that led to its cancellation, cause it was 
unable to go very low, very long to avoid Soviet radar and SAM's, which B-52 
was able to do for many more years.


B-52 had been built in 50's and 60's as high altitude bomber, also, but was 
able to adapt for low level penetration of Soviet territory.  'Flew many 
hundreds of hours at very low level myself.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana


The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an 
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  ICBM 
became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  load 
aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  equipment 
because all the replacements were supposed to be  supersonic, super 
performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  nuclear bomber, and have 
not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  heavy support bomber, but a 
newer aircraft would be a good idea.


The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  to 
the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  times 
on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  arrival would 
be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  squadrons of KC135's 
waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  operational criteria 
(notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  numbers, Kennedy cancelled 
the program -- it was never going to be  able to perform as required, and 
delivering a nuclear weapon six or  eight hours after then end of the 
world was stupid.


Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  the 
concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  B1, also 
cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  was no 
reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  Reagan 
Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  subsonic 
strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  became the 
champion hanger queens until the B2 came along -- that  one was the 
revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  flying wing. 
By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  B2 can fly almost 
as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  takes a couple months 
to change engines because the stealth coating  has to be chipped off, 
cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.


A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the 
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.


Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Rich Thomas]

My understanding is that the B-70 was built (2? prototypes) to cause the 
rooshans to soil their collectivist drawers and to spend huge amounts of 
money attempting to defend against it, at the same time ballistic 
missile defense was being touted, also causing the rooshans to soil 
their collectivist drawers and spend huge amounts of money attempting a 
work-around.  Not sure that stuff was ever meant to become operational, 
though the BMD stuff is still going on.  It all led to the downfall of 
the soviet union as they just could not keep up spending against the 
threats.


--R


On 7/27/13 3:02 PM, WILTON wrote:
B-70 was built as designed - to go very fast very high; Soviets at 
same time developed surface-to-air (SAM's) that led to its 
cancellation, cause it was unable to go very low, very long to avoid 
Soviet radar and SAM's, which B-52 was able to do for many more years.


B-52 had been built in 50's and 60's as high altitude bomber, also, 
but was able to adapt for low level penetration of Soviet territory.  
'Flew many hundreds of hours at very low level myself.


Wilton



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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Scott Ritchey]

Current US strategic bomber inventory:

B-1:66
B-2:20
B-52:   58

End of list

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

The B-52 serves the role of big and slow strategic bomber.  This is an  
obsolete role, since strategic bombing became a moot point when the  
ICBM became operational in the late 50's.  The need for a high bomb  
load aircraft didn't go away, so we are stuck with truly ancient  
equipment because all the replacements were supposed to be  
supersonic, super performance, nuclear bombers.  We don't need a  
nuclear bomber, and have not since 1958 or so.  There is a role for a  
heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a good idea.

The B-70 was a dud -- supposedly the prototype couldn't make the trip  
to the USSR with a bomb aboard unless it would be re-fueled a couple  
times on the trip, effectively mooting any strategic use -- it's  
arrival would be telegraphed half a day before  arrival by the  
squadrons of KC135's waiting for it to arrive.  It also never met  
operational criteria (notably fuel use) and after McNamara ran the  
numbers, Kennedy cancelled the program -- it was never going to be  
able to perform as required, and delivering a nuclear weapon six or  
eight hours after then end of the world was stupid.

Naturally, the MIP still lusted after all that government cash, and  
the concept was revived later during the Nixon Administration in the  
B1, also cancelled by Carter because it wasn't gonna happen and there  
was no reason to have a nuclear bomber.  Raised from the dead by the  
Reagan Administration, the B1 and derivatives morphed into low level  
subsonic strategic bombers (an oxymoron if there ever was one) and  
became the champion hanger queens until the B2 came along -- that  
one was the revival of another dead project from the 50's to make a  
flying wing.  By using an incredible amount of computing power, the  
B2 can fly almost as straight and level as a Cesna on autopilot and  
takes a couple months to change engines because the stealth coating  
has to be chipped off, cleaned up, and re-applied by hand.

A failed temperature sensor crashed one the other year, confused the  
computer into a low speed stall on takeoff.

Way too much technology and way too little actual thought, eh?

Shades of the Asiana crash -- who, or what, was flying the plane?

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] B-52. was: Asiana

[Mountain Man]

Peter wrote:
 There is a role for a heavy support bomber, but a newer aircraft would be a
 good idea.

Yeah, like maybe... military version of Dreamliner?
Wait, the cost must exceed the 350 million cost of F-22 per copy.
Yes, newer aircraft would be a good idea, but too much gizmo is
included.  Failure mode is ditch, whereas B-52 failure mode is put it
down carefully, or somesuch that WILTON can explain.
mao

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[MBZ] B-52 for wilton

[Allan Streib]

Saw a Chevy Impala equipped with one of these today

http://www.b-52pro.com/products/MX18S.html

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 for wilton

[Max Dillon]

Definitely what Wilton needs, yo.  That with some dubs and faux crocodile skin 
interior, pure chick magnet.


Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

Saw a Chevy Impala equipped with one of these today

http://www.b-52pro.com/products/MX18S.html

Allan

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[WILTON]

Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters



WILTON wrote:



Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in
tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))


Speaking of.

I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[E M]

Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
hee

I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
birds!!

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters


  WILTON wrote:


  Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in
 tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))


 Speaking of.

 I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
 And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
 throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
 knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
 Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

 --   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[WILTON]

Much more typical, en route cruise for a B-52 is at 35 or 37 kft (easily go 
much higher); IAS 238 kts, MACH .77, 444 kts TAS; combat cruise at 250 kts 
IAS, mach .82, 470 kts TAS.  Easily go significant faster.  I've seldom 
known a B-52 to stay at 25 kft long.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters



Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
hee

I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
birds!!

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:


Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters


 WILTON wrote:




 Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in

tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))



Speaking of.

I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[Rich Thomas]

I had a neighbor when I lived near Boston who flew B-17s to deliver the 
goods in Europe.  He did a year at GA Tech then joined up, they sent him 
to flight school then stuck him in the left seat in England and off he 
went.  He flew toward the end, but it was hairy enough according to some 
of his stories.  He did have some good experiences when the end of the 
war was announced, seemed many young ladies had considerable gratitude 
for what the Yank flyboys had done for Old Blighty  The guy was 
afraid to get on a 2 step ladder but never had a problem in the plane.


--R

On 1/27/12 1:44 PM, E M wrote:

Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
hee

I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
birds!!

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTONwilt...@nc.rr.com  wrote:


Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Fmiserfmi...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters


  WILTON wrote:

  Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in

tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))


Speaking of.

I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[E M]

I had an uncle who flew in a Lanc during the war...rear gunner.  The guy
had lots of stories, some great, some not so great.  One mission, the plane
was pretty shot up, and the floor of the rear turret was shot out.  As he
tells it, he had his legs dangling out during the flight home.  Flying over
the water and looking down, he told me he kept thinking, higher, higher!

I also have a friend who flies.  He too can't get on a chair to change a
light bulb, but no problems flying.  Doesn't seem to be that uncommon
amongst pilots.

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 14:29, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.netwrote:

 I had a neighbor when I lived near Boston who flew B-17s to deliver the
 goods in Europe.  He did a year at GA Tech then joined up, they sent him to
 flight school then stuck him in the left seat in England and off he went.
  He flew toward the end, but it was hairy enough according to some of his
 stories.  He did have some good experiences when the end of the war was
 announced, seemed many young ladies had considerable gratitude for what the
 Yank flyboys had done for Old Blighty  The guy was afraid to get on a 2
 step ladder but never had a problem in the plane.

 --R


 On 1/27/12 1:44 PM, E M wrote:

 Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
 performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
 hee

 I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
 old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
 then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
 difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
 and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
 as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
 birds!!

 Ed
 300E

 On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTONwilt...@nc.rr.com  wrote:

  Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Fmiserfmi...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters


  WILTON wrote:

  Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in

 tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))

  Speaking of.

 I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
 And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
 throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
 knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
 Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

 --   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[Dan Penoff]

My Dad was a flight engineer in a B-29 based on Guam and later Tinian. It was 
outfitted as a photo reconnaissance plane, with a tail gunner and possibly no 
automated turrets (not sure about that.)

They flew daytime sorties over Japan and the islands to gather intelligence and 
document the results of the previous night's bombing raids.

He said it was noisy and frighteningly cold, and since they normally flew 
without escorts, the Japanese left them alone.

This meant that the tail gunner, Gene Nelson, would be all the way in the tail 
of the plane, bored out of his mind. To combat the boredom, they played chess 
over the intercom

No ordinance on these birds, just a huge pallet in the bomb bay with very, very 
large cameras.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2012, at 1:44 PM, E M pokieba...@gmail.com wrote:

 Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
 performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
 hee
 
 I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
 old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
 then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
 difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
 and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
 as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
 birds!!
 
 Ed
 300E
 
 On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:
 
 Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters
 
 
 WILTON wrote:
 
 
 Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in
 tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))
 
 
 Speaking of.
 
 I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
 And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
 throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
 knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
 Or is FlighGear clueless. :)
 
 --   Philip
 
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[Fmiser]

 WILTON wrote:

 Much more typical, en route cruise for a B-52 is at 35 or 37
 kft (easily go much higher); IAS 238 kts, MACH .77, 444 kts
 TAS; combat cruise at 250 kts IAS, mach .82, 470 kts TAS.
 Easily go significant faster.  I've seldom known a B-52 to
 stay at 25 kft long.

 Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS,
 MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

Thanks Wilton!  As I suspected, FlightGear isn't totally
accurate.  Oh well. It's kinda fun anyway.  I have loaded
numerous planes - from F14, to B-52, to Sopwith Camel - even a
paper airplane!

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[E M]

Any thoughts on what flight simulators offer the best Concorde, and 747 ?
I've watched numerous videos of the flight deck of Concorde, on YouTube.
It would be fun to play around with a flight simulator on the PC.  :-)

Captain Ed.
300E

On 27 January 2012 15:23, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote:

  WILTON wrote:

  Much more typical, en route cruise for a B-52 is at 35 or 37
  kft (easily go much higher); IAS 238 kts, MACH .77, 444 kts
  TAS; combat cruise at 250 kts IAS, mach .82, 470 kts TAS.
  Easily go significant faster.  I've seldom known a B-52 to
  stay at 25 kft long.

  Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS,
  MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

 Thanks Wilton!  As I suspected, FlightGear isn't totally
 accurate.  Oh well. It's kinda fun anyway.  I have loaded
 numerous planes - from F14, to B-52, to Sopwith Camel - even a
 paper airplane!

 --Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[WILTON]

BTW, several years ago, at a local air show, I was kneeling down at the 
forward end of the open bomb bay doors of a B-17 and peering up into the bay 
when one of the crewmen walked up and asked, What do you think?  I 
immediately said, Small, very small.  I immediately realized that I'd 
better be careful not to insult somebody else's air plane, and quickly went 
on to say, I'm a B-52 guy, and comparatively, the bay is shockingly small, 
but they certainly did a fantastic job for us over Europe and wherever they 
were in service, and I thank God for them and the tough, brave souls who 
flew them.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: E M pokieba...@gmail.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters



Try dumping some of that cargo in the bays, see if it doesn't help
performance somewhat.  ;-)  Just don't do it over my backyard please.  Hee
hee

I used to help out at a local aviation museum here.  We were restoring an
old Lanc.  I remember reading the performance figures at the time back
then, but can't remember them now.  I do remember there was quite a
difference in performance with a full load, and empty.  Deliver the cargo,
and then hightail it home.  Pretty slow target on the way to work though,
as I remember.  Must have taken some guts to strap in to one of those old
birds!!

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 12:01, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:


Cruising at 25,000ft, temp ~ -50C; 305kts IAS/CAS, MACH .77; 444 kts TAS

Wilton

- Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters


 WILTON wrote:




 Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in

tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))



Speaking of.

I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[Fmiser]

 Captain Ed wrote:

 Any thoughts on what flight simulators offer the best
 Concorde, and 747 ? I've watched numerous videos of the flight
 deck of Concorde, on YouTube. It would be fun to play around
 with a flight simulator on the PC.  :-)

Don't know about best - but I like Flightgear
http://www.flightgear.org/

It is open source and no cost.  And it is available for Mac,
Linux, and MS Win.  And there are _lots_ of 'planes to choose
choose from.

But based on our local B-52 expert, the simulator is not
necessarily totally accurate.  Either that or I'm a _lousy_
pilot...

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[E M]

Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to check it out!

Ed
300E

On 27 January 2012 21:45, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote:

  Captain Ed wrote:
 
  Any thoughts on what flight simulators offer the best
  Concorde, and 747 ? I've watched numerous videos of the flight
  deck of Concorde, on YouTube. It would be fun to play around
  with a flight simulator on the PC.  :-)

 Don't know about best - but I like Flightgear
 http://www.flightgear.org/

 It is open source and no cost.  And it is available for Mac,
 Linux, and MS Win.  And there are _lots_ of 'planes to choose
 choose from.

 But based on our local B-52 expert, the simulator is not
 necessarily totally accurate.  Either that or I'm a _lousy_
 pilot...

 -- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 was: 07 R320CDI with 320259000meters

[Fmiser]

 WILTON wrote:

 Stirred up?  Who, me?!  Maybe y'oughta consider mega as in
 tons while I'm calling in a B-52 strike.   ;)))

Speaking of.

I was flying a B-52 on the computer simulator the other day.
And I'm curious - what is the cruising speed?  With 100%
throttle I never seemed to be able to get above about 300
knots at 25,000 ft flying level.  Does that seem about right?
Or is FlighGear clueless. :)

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 power

[WILTON]

'Cept that, yes.  When it gets to 3, (or 2 in different pods) you really 
start getting concerned.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 power


The issue is what caused the loss.  There might be more of them out there 
coming for the others.


--R

On 11/4/10 10:15 PM, WILTON wrote:

In fact, loss of one or 2 was HARDLY and issue.

Wilton

- Original Message - From: relng...@aol.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 power


...A bit scary when I remember that I spent 5000 hours aboard very 
large,

multi-engine aircraft built by lowest bidders...


Yes, but when you have eight engines, loss of one is less of an issue..

RLE




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Re: [MBZ] B-52 power

[RELNGSON]

 ...A bit scary when I remember that I spent 5000 hours aboard very large,
 multi-engine aircraft built by lowest bidders...
 
Yes, but when you have eight engines, loss of one is less of an issue..

RLE
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 power

[WILTON]

In fact, loss of one or 2 was HARDLY and issue.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: relng...@aol.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 power



...A bit scary when I remember that I spent 5000 hours aboard very large,
multi-engine aircraft built by lowest bidders...


Yes, but when you have eight engines, loss of one is less of an issue..

RLE




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Re: [MBZ] B-52 power

[Rich Thomas]

The issue is what caused the loss.  There might be more of them out 
there coming for the others.


--R

On 11/4/10 10:15 PM, WILTON wrote:

In fact, loss of one or 2 was HARDLY and issue.

Wilton

- Original Message - From: relng...@aol.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] B-52 power


...A bit scary when I remember that I spent 5000 hours aboard very 
large,

multi-engine aircraft built by lowest bidders...


Yes, but when you have eight engines, loss of one is less of an issue..

RLE




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