Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-28 Thread Rich Thomas

Was Dale a looser?

--R

On 9/26/2010 8:34 PM, Peter T. Arnold wrote:

 BTDT x8

Yes, I have the shirt!

It's a lifesavor, Much like Mobile1

--
Pete Arnold

You win some, You loose some and You wreck some!

-Dale Earnhardt-




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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-28 Thread pm7088
I'm thinking the Dale did all flavors. 


-- 

Peter Arnold 

Windsor, CT 

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:38:30 AM 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A 

Was Dale a looser? 

--R 

On 9/26/2010 8:34 PM, Peter T. Arnold wrote: 
 BTDT x8 
 
 Yes, I have the shirt! 
 
 It's a lifesavor, Much like Mobile1 
 
 -- 
 Pete Arnold 
 
 You win some, You loose some and You wreck some! 
 
 -Dale Earnhardt- 
 
 

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread LWB250
Lots of positive feedback on the HF site for this item.  On person did mention 
that the camera head was 18mm and not small enough to go through a spark plug 
hole.

My personal favorite review of this:

Excellent Product

Review by Tim Leech

Very good quality for the price. We use it for home colonoscopies and couldn't 
be more pleased

Dan


--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 12:30 AM
 really close!
 
 http://www.etronixmart.com/supereyes-b002-200x-usb-digital-microscope-manual-focusing-p-572.html?osCsid=ad6129ad79c64a005cb54d3ab0bcb58b
 
 appears to be 7mm dia, with light.  only problem is
 that it is twice what I'd be willing to spend.  Some
 other time, it would be worth the price...
 
 For most of us, this is probably IT.  I am just being
 a real cheapskate.
 
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread Curt Raymond
Thats seriously small... A borescope or something they use for surgery.
By the time you get that small it looks like you might as well get a proper 
borescope. Maybe its something you can rent, or do you know a plumber that 
might have one? Looks like a cheapie on like sells for ~$100 which is cheaper 
than I'd thought.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 16:00:16 -0500
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A
Message-ID: a06240847c8c41079c...@[192.168.1.112]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed

A double ATTABOY for Gerry!

As long as the list youngsters are talking about cheap technology 
replacing older expensive technology.  Who on the list can come up 
with a USB camera (Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough 
(9-10mm dia or less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head 
where a prechamber goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, 
preferably with onboard light.  As an alternative, maybe a light or 
fiber light trnsmitter  could be snaked in through the same hole if 
the camera was small enough.  A source for a fiber light transmitter 
would be good too.

On my 80 240D 4 speed project, I'd like to inspect the bores of the 
supposedly good engine before  I stick it in the car.  Borescopes are 
expensive and something that McParts doesnt rent.   I don't mind 
pulling prechambers since I have my homemade JD70 wristpin slammer 
slide hammer prechamber puller and my homemade prechamber ring wrench

Curt?  anyone else?

If anyone has a NOS 616 headgasket laying around, I can skip this 
step.  But I am trying to cheap out of spending 70-80 bucks on a 
headgasket just to take a look inside.

Aimed a light at the hole in the housing and put a computer camera 
on a block under the car.  Sat in the car with a laptop and kept 
tapping the starter until I could see the drain plug.  Went back 
under the car with a wrench and a pan, drained the ATF, pulled 
everything out.  Done in two trips under the car.
Gerry
'83 300D


  
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread Curt Raymond
Most heart surgery (the easy stuff like what I had) isn't done with a scope, 
they're doing a flouroscope while they work and watch on a separate TV monitor. 
Weird to watch especially when you know its your insides they're working in... 
Sort of like watching somebody work a maze while pushing the line along.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:17:59 -0500
From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A
Message-ID:
    aanlkti=sp0z8a74kds90ba2ah6t9+swqhxpyv9_vz...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dieselhead wrote:
 Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
 (Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
 less5-6 mm?) ?to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
 goes ?(OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
 light.

I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao




  
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread Craig
On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 06:22:22 -0700 (PDT) LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:

 My personal favorite review of this:
 
 Excellent Product
 
 Review by Tim Leech
 
 Very good quality for the price. We use it for home colonoscopies and
 couldn't be more pleased

That's the one I mentioned.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread WILTON

What??!!  Huh?!!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A



On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 06:22:22 -0700 (PDT) LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:


My personal favorite review of this:

Excellent Product

Review by Tim Leech

Very good quality for the price. We use it for home colonoscopies and
couldn't be more pleased


That's the one I mentioned.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread Frederick W Moir
Just Fleabayed borescope and came up with a bunch from Hong Kong, $30 
and up. Some with lcd screen integrated. not HD but so what.

A 617 and 601/602 NA prechambers have 14mm necks, turbo are 15mm.AFAIK.
YMMV
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred

On 9/25/2010 10:04 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
I was just looking at the camera on the macbook.. It is maybe 3mm 
dia.  that could be put in a .5 thick case and you would have a 4mm 
dia camera for pretty cheap.  The megapixel camera on my motorola cell 
phone appears to be about 1mm lens dia.


Seems to me somewhere in the computer peripherals world there should 
be a camera and light USB device for around $30.


they put video camera on R/C planes.  Those have t be pretty small and 
they are either wireless or record to a microSD card.  Whatever that 
is ought to work, except for the absence of a light.  But if you can 
keep the camera to 4mm dia, then you should be able to get light in 
with the remaining 6mm



You know, I had this idea a few years ago, to make a cheap cam like 
that for hobbyists, cars, etc. and never really pursued it.  I see 
Harbor Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and 
the cam on the end of a flexible thingie.  It looks fairly small, but 
maybe not small enough for that application.  Don't think it has a 
light.


--R

On 9/25/2010 8:17 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Dieselhead wrote:


Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
(Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a 
prechamber
goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with 
onboard

light.


I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-26 Thread Peter T. Arnold

 BTDT x8

Yes, I have the shirt!

It's a lifesavor, Much like Mobile1

--
Pete Arnold

You win some, You loose some and You wreck some!

-Dale Earnhardt-

On 9/26/2010 1:15 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Most heart surgery (the easy stuff like what I had) isn't done with a scope, 
they're doing a flouroscope while they work and watch on a separate TV monitor. 
Weird to watch especially when you know its your insides they're working in... 
Sort of like watching somebody work a maze while pushing the line along.

-Curt

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:17:59 -0500
From: Mountain Manmaontin@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A
Message-ID:
 aanlkti=sp0z8a74kds90ba2ah6t9+swqhxpyv9_vz...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dieselhead wrote:

Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
(Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
less5-6 mm?) ?to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
goes ?(OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
light.

I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao





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[MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead

A double ATTABOY for Gerry!

As long as the list youngsters are talking about cheap technology 
replacing older expensive technology.  Who on the list can come up 
with a USB camera (Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough 
(9-10mm dia or less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head 
where a prechamber goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, 
preferably with onboard light.  As an alternative, maybe a light or 
fiber light trnsmitter  could be snaked in through the same hole if 
the camera was small enough.  A source for a fiber light transmitter 
would be good too.


On my 80 240D 4 speed project, I'd like to inspect the bores of the 
supposedly good engine before  I stick it in the car.  Borescopes are 
expensive and something that McParts doesnt rent.   I don't mind 
pulling prechambers since I have my homemade JD70 wristpin slammer 
slide hammer prechamber puller and my homemade prechamber ring wrench


Curt?  anyone else?

If anyone has a NOS 616 headgasket laying around, I can skip this 
step.  But I am trying to cheap out of spending 70-80 bucks on a 
headgasket just to take a look inside.


Aimed a light at the hole in the housing and put a computer camera 
on a block under the car.  Sat in the car with a laptop and kept 
tapping the starter until I could see the drain plug.  Went back 
under the car with a wrench and a pan, drained the ATF, pulled 
everything out.  Done in two trips under the car.

Gerry
'83 300D


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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Mountain Man
Dieselhead wrote:
 Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
 (Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
 less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
 goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
 light.

I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Rich Thomas
You know, I had this idea a few years ago, to make a cheap cam like that 
for hobbyists, cars, etc. and never really pursued it.  I see Harbor 
Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and the cam on 
the end of a flexible thingie.  It looks fairly small, but maybe not 
small enough for that application.  Don't think it has a light.


--R

On 9/25/2010 8:17 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Dieselhead wrote:
   

Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
(Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
light.
 

I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead
Hey, you have some connection with medical types.  Maybe you can find 
out how many uses the little vein cameras get, and then what happens 
to it..  My guess is the little camera is a throwaway, but is useless 
without the $5,000,000 machine it is connected to (with the display) 
And I'd guess the brand X cameras are worthless with the brand y 
machine and vice versa, so there is no competition for the 
consumables.


You know, I had this idea a few years ago, to make a cheap cam like 
that for hobbyists, cars, etc. and never really pursued it.  I see 
Harbor Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and 
the cam on the end of a flexible thingie.  It looks fairly small, 
but maybe not small enough for that application.  Don't think it has 
a light.


--R


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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead
if there is any there, if doesn't go to the university junk sale. 
medical makes me shudder.  That is about like paying DOD prices. 
$10 for a bandaid with a fancy name.  A NEW borescope would be 
probably 10x cheaper.  now if you knew a medial equipment tech at 
some hospital that does a lot of that kind of surgery, you might be 
able to cockaroach one camera.  I am with the Chairman mao on 
doctors.  I want to stay far away.  no med shool at this univ.  They 
probably have that stuff at the vet school, but I have no contacts 
there, and that stuff doesn't go to the junk sale.


I think a new lower end borescope goes for about $300.  I'd like to 
stay in the $30 range or else the new head gasket gets attractive.




Dieselhead wrote:

 Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
 (Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
 less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
 goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
 light.


I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead
I was just looking at the camera on the macbook.. It is maybe 3mm 
dia.  that could be put in a .5 thick case and you would have a 4mm 
dia camera for pretty cheap.  The megapixel camera on my motorola 
cell phone appears to be about 1mm lens dia.


Seems to me somewhere in the computer peripherals world there should 
be a camera and light USB device for around $30.


they put video camera on R/C planes.  Those have t be pretty small 
and they are either wireless or record to a microSD card.  Whatever 
that is ought to work, except for the absence of a light.  But if you 
can keep the camera to 4mm dia, then you should be able to get light 
in with the remaining 6mm



You know, I had this idea a few years ago, to make a cheap cam like 
that for hobbyists, cars, etc. and never really pursued it.  I see 
Harbor Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and 
the cam on the end of a flexible thingie.  It looks fairly small, 
but maybe not small enough for that application.  Don't think it has 
a light.


--R

On 9/25/2010 8:17 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Dieselhead wrote:


Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
(Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a prechamber
goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with onboard
light.


I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Rick Knoble

  I see Harbor
 Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and the cam on
 the end of a flexible thingie. It looks fairly small, but maybe not
 small enough for that application. Don't think it has a light.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=q=boroscope

Rick

  
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Craig
On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:39:53 -0700 Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com
wrote:

 
   I see Harbor
  Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and the cam
  on the end of a flexible thingie. It looks fairly small, but maybe not
  small enough for that application. Don't think it has a light.
 
 http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=q=boroscope
 
 Rick

The only item in that category is:

http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-inspection-camera-with-24-inch-color-lcd-monitor-66550.html

According to some of the comments, it does have an LED light. Some of the
other comments are interesting.



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead

Yeah, but it is $120 bucks.  This is a kaleb car at best.



On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:39:53 -0700 Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com
wrote:



   I see Harbor
  Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and the cam
  on the end of a flexible thingie. It looks fairly small, but maybe not
  small enough for that application. Don't think it has a light.

 http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=q=boroscope

 Rick


The only item in that category is:

http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-inspection-camera-with-24-inch-color-lcd-monitor-66550.html

According to some of the comments, it does have an LED light. Some of the
other comments are interesting.



Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread OK Don
But you don't count the cost of tools in the value proposition of a car, you
cn use them on future cars as well.

I'd just install the engine, and see how it runs. if it has low compression,
then pull the head.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yeah, but it is $120 bucks.  This is a kaleb car at best.


OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Rich Thomas
A lot of the cameras on phones and computers (and cameras too!) are part 
of a circuit board, the trick is getting the imager small and at the end 
of a flex cable of some sort, and the rest of the bits on the hand-held 
part.


--R

On 9/25/2010 10:04 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
I was just looking at the camera on the macbook.. It is maybe 3mm 
dia.  that could be put in a .5 thick case and you would have a 4mm 
dia camera for pretty cheap.  The megapixel camera on my motorola cell 
phone appears to be about 1mm lens dia.


Seems to me somewhere in the computer peripherals world there should 
be a camera and light USB device for around $30.


they put video camera on R/C planes.  Those have t be pretty small and 
they are either wireless or record to a microSD card.  Whatever that 
is ought to work, except for the absence of a light.  But if you can 
keep the camera to 4mm dia, then you should be able to get light in 
with the remaining 6mm



You know, I had this idea a few years ago, to make a cheap cam like 
that for hobbyists, cars, etc. and never really pursued it.  I see 
Harbor Fright has one now for about a $100, has a little display and 
the cam on the end of a flexible thingie.  It looks fairly small, but 
maybe not small enough for that application.  Don't think it has a 
light.


--R

On 9/25/2010 8:17 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Dieselhead wrote:


Who on the list can come up with a USB camera
(Mfgr and model number) that would be small enough (9-10mm dia or
less5-6 mm?)  to pass through the hole in the head where a 
prechamber
goes  (OM61x and OM60x) to work as a borescope, preferably with 
onboard

light.


I would think anyone in the medical equipment biz could arrive at that
type of instrument, as in arthroscopic surgery equipment or that other
stuff they shove up your groin to examine your heart and do surgery
there - that all has lights, action, camera.  Cost being no problem.
Perhaps with your glow-in-dark doors sources, this type of equipment
comes up used from time to time?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead

This is close, but it does not give the dimension.  Looks like 10-12mm

www.buy.com/prod/new-usb-2-0-mini-camera-webcam-for-pc-laptop/q/sellerid/23962916/loc/101/213271960.html


NASTY URL...


But you don't count the cost of tools in the value proposition of a car, you
cn use them on future cars as well.

I'd just install the engine, and see how it runs. if it has low compression,
then pull the head.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


 Yeah, but it is $120 bucks.  This is a kaleb car at best.



OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead
This one might be it, but I like that $20 price better.  These clowns 
want to sell a micro devise but include no dimensions of the head 
size or the min hole size.  looks like a pake fleabay.


A lot of the cameras on phones and computers (and cameras too!) are 
part of a circuit board, the trick is getting the imager small and 
at the end of a flex cable of some sort, and the rest of the bits on 
the hand-held part.


--R

On 9/25/2010 10:04 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
I was just looking at the camera on the macbook.. It is maybe 3mm 
dia.  that could be put in a .5 thick case and you would have a 4mm 
dia camera for pretty cheap.  The megapixel camera on my motorola 
cell phone appears to be about 1mm lens dia.


Seems to me somewhere in the computer peripherals world there 
should be a camera and light USB device for around $30.


they put video camera on R/C planes.  Those have t be pretty small 
and they are either wireless or record to a microSD card.  Whatever 
that is ought to work, except for the absence of a light.  But if 
you can keep the camera to 4mm dia, then you should be able to get 
light in with the remaining 6mm




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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead

close, but no bananas:  www.geeky-gadgets.com/usb-super-micro-eye-video-camera/
exactly the ticket, but it needs a 17mm hole

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Re: [MBZ] Borescope WAS: Auto Trans Diagnosis A

2010-09-25 Thread Dieselhead

really close!

http://www.etronixmart.com/supereyes-b002-200x-usb-digital-microscope-manual-focusing-p-572.html?osCsid=ad6129ad79c64a005cb54d3ab0bcb58b

appears to be 7mm dia, with light.  only problem is that it is twice 
what I'd be willing to spend.  Some other time, it would be worth the 
price...


For most of us, this is probably IT.  I am just being a real cheapskate.

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