Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have a list with descriptions and part numbers.  It’s several pages long.  I 
need to update it and I’ll post a link to it in a little bit so people can look 
at it if they’re interested.  Of course, some thigns fit other models, too.

Dan


> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> What sort of 140 parts?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

What sort of 140 parts?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:50 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Your all loosers, as Curly snagged them.
> 
> I have a bunch of W140 parts if anyone’s interested.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Give me a brake!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Your all loosers, as Curly snagged them.

I have a bunch of W140 parts if anyone’s interested.

Dan


> On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Give me a brake!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Give me a brake!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 4:44 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Give us a brake on that price!
> 
> --R
> 
>> On 1/4/16 11:30 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'm cleaning out the garage today, and found a couple of NOS brake lines for 
>> W123/4/6 cars.
>> 
>> They're still in the packaging and are "Pex" brand with Autohaus stickers on 
>> the packages.
>> 
>> 129 428 00 35
>> 
>> $10 shipped for the pair.
>> 
>> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Give us a brake on that price!

--R

On 1/4/16 11:30 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I'm cleaning out the garage today, and found a couple of NOS brake lines for 
W123/4/6 cars.

They're still in the packaging and are "Pex" brand with Autohaus stickers on 
the packages.

129 428 00 35

$10 shipped for the pair.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m sorry.  Hoses.  You could Google the part number and see pictures online….

Dan


> On Jan 4, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I'm cleaning out the garage today, and found a couple of NOS brake lines for 
>> W123/4/6 cars.
>> 
>> They're still in the packaging and are "Pex" brand with Autohaus stickers on 
>> the packages.
>> 
>> 129 428 00 35
>> 
>> $10 shipped for the pair.
>> 
>> Dan
> 
> HARD LINES OR HOSES?  If hoses, how long?  front or rear?
> 
> If hoses, I'll take em.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I'm cleaning out the garage today, and found a couple of NOS brake 
lines for W123/4/6 cars.


They're still in the packaging and are "Pex" brand with Autohaus 
stickers on the packages.


129 428 00 35

$10 shipped for the pair.

Dan


HARD LINES OR HOSES?  If hoses, how long?  front or rear?

If hoses, I'll take em.

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[MBZ] Brake Lines For Sale

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I'm cleaning out the garage today, and found a couple of NOS brake lines for 
W123/4/6 cars.

They're still in the packaging and are "Pex" brand with Autohaus stickers on 
the packages.

129 428 00 35

$10 shipped for the pair.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Rick Knoble]

> From: curtlud...@yahoo.com
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines
>
> Allen's experience is what I would expect from a brake line failure.
> I've seen this on an '87 Dodge Lancer (line to the rear system rusted and 
> failed), '03 Ford Ranger (line to one rear brake rusted and failed) and an 
> '83 MB 240D (one front caliper seal failed) and in all cases the pedal went 
> nearly to the floor and all braking ability was in the last say 1/4" of pedal 
> throw.

> Wow
> that's quite a different experience than I had when I was driving an
> '87 Toyota pickup when a rusted rear brake line blew out.  Pedal went to
> the floor, luckily I got some braking action at the very bottom of the
> travel but it was definitely quite unpleasant.

I didn't have brakes until the bottom of pedal travel, but once it got there,
the car stopped well with front brakes only. 

Rick
Who is still bending brake lines...
  
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

That is my recollection yes.  I had to move the reservoir over to a new MC when 
I later had to replace the MC.  And it was just one chamber.

Of course that was at least 20 years ago, so I suppose i could be mistaken.

Allan

On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:59 -0500, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
> Allan Streib wrote:
> 
> > The '87 Toyota, though it had a dual circuit system, had only one
> > reservoir (not a split reservoir).  So a few pumps of the brake and the
> > fluid is goine and you're sucking air into the master cylinder...
> 
> Are you sure?
> That would put it about 20 years behind the 1975 Honda Civic I used to
> own, not 
> to mention the 1986 Corolla LE.
> 
> Mitch
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:


The '87 Toyota, though it had a dual circuit system, had only one
reservoir (not a split reservoir).  So a few pumps of the brake and the
fluid is goine and you're sucking air into the master cylinder...


Are you sure?
That would put it about 20 years behind the 1975 Honda Civic I used to own, not 
to mention the 1986 Corolla LE.


Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

Fmiser  writes:

> Pump the pedal.  That is, take your foot off and step on it
> again.  The two circuits are separate, but do have a pressure
> balancing function.  So if one fails with a very low
> resistance (big hole) the other side will require more fluid
> volume than typical.  The second or third step on the pedal
> should be plenty.

The '87 Toyota, though it had a dual circuit system, had only one
reservoir (not a split reservoir).  So a few pumps of the brake and the
fluid is goine and you're sucking air into the master cylinder...

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Fmiser]

> > > Rick Knoble wrote:
> > >
> > > I was driving the car when the brakes failed (rears) and it
> > > was still quite drivable, with no unpleasant feelings of not
> > > being able to stop. I have Akebonos with new rotors on the
> > > front, maybe that helps.

> > Allen wrote:
> > 
> > Wow
> > that's quite a different experience than I had when I was
> > driving an '87 Toyota pickup when a rusted rear brake line
> > blew out.  Pedal went to the floor, luckily I got some braking
> > action at the very bottom of the travel but it was definitely
> > quite unpleasant.

> Curt Raymond wrote:
> 
> Allen's experience is what I would expect from a brake line
> failure. ... in all cases the pedal went nearly to
> the floor and all braking ability was in the last say 1/4" of
> pedal throw.

Which means it works!

Pump the pedal.  That is, take your foot off and step on it
again.  The two circuits are separate, but do have a pressure
balancing function.  So if one fails with a very low
resistance (big hole) the other side will require more fluid
volume than typical.  The second or third step on the pedal
should be plenty.

I have mucked about with old cars long enough I have
encountered a number of brake system failures.  The only truly
exciting one was the '62 (I think) Dodge with a single
circuit.  I drove it home with electrical tape over the
hole.  I didn't touch the brake pedal until I pulled into the
driveway.  The tape didn't do much, other than make me feel a
little better when I was driving.

Trust me - the two circuit system is much better. :)

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Curt Raymond]

Allen's experience is what I would expect from a brake line failure.
I've seen this on an '87 Dodge Lancer (line to the rear system rusted and 
failed), '03 Ford Ranger (line to one rear brake rusted and failed) and an '83 
MB 240D (one front caliper seal failed) and in all cases the pedal went nearly 
to the floor and all braking ability was in the last say 1/4" of pedal throw.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 12:49:40 -0500
From: "Allan Streib" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines
Message-ID: <1297014580.7908.1419232...@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:12 -0800, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:

> I was driving the car when the brakes failed (rears) and it was still
> quite drivable, with no unpleasant feelings of not being able to stop.
> I have Akebonos with new rotors on the front, maybe that helps.

Wow
 that's quite a different experience than I had when I was driving an 
'87 Toyota pickup when a rusted rear brake line blew out.  Pedal went to
 the floor, luckily I got some braking action at the very bottom of the 
travel but it was definitely quite unpleasant.

Allan


  
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Hendrik & Fay]

Far as I remember brake systems work on a two circuit design, front and 
rear, so if one goes you still have the other.


Hendrik
who recently recently serviced/overhauled the brake system in the TE

Allan Streib wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:12 -0800, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:

  

I was driving the car when the brakes failed (rears) and it was still
quite drivable, with no unpleasant feelings of not being able to stop.
I have Akebonos with new rotors on the front, maybe that helps.



Wow that's quite a different experience than I had when I was driving an '87 
Toyota pickup when a rusted rear brake line blew out.  Pedal went to the floor, 
luckily I got some braking action at the very bottom of the travel but it was 
definitely quite unpleasant.

Allan
  



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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Craig]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 08:28:18 -0800 "Barry Stark" 
wrote:

>  I agree with Mitch that a proper flare connected with the proper
> fitting should be perfectly reliable. Here is a possible alternative.
> We use these Swagelok fittings all the time on both pressure and vacuum
> systems in many aerospace applications.

Yes, of course! Swagelok fittings! I've used them many times before. They
are the right thing for the job. They come in both inch and metric.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Mountain Man]

The issue regarding splice a new short length in to an existing line
is that the remainder of the line is old and will be more liable to
suffer age fatigue.  Where's the line gonna break? - in the old line
area, not the new splice area or unions, I would guess.
Replace the entire line and forget the meandering dialog about double
compression, compression, swagelok, etc. unions.  More difficult? -
yes, but the job would be done by now afer 4 days of dialog about
which fitting, etc.  OTOH, I would prolly splice new short in to old
system... like Mitch or was it Allan sez...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Dieselhead]

I agree with Barry and Peter, that properly used 
swagelock fittings are good, but differ slightly 
with Barry about compression fittings.  A 
properly seated compression fitting does swage 
the tubing where the collar is, making it 
slightly smaller, with the effect that the "tail" 
is slightly larger than the collar.  Technically 
not a flare, but producing the same effect.


It depends on the application, but on the rear 
circuit of a dual circuit vehicle, I would not 
worry about a compression fitting.  Ever drive 
without rear brakes?  Not much difference without 
the rears on a car or light truck.  I have seen 
the number but I don't remember it for sure, but 
from recollection something like 80% of braking 
is done on the front axle of the generic car.




 I agree with Mitch that a proper flare connected with the proper fitting
should be perfectly reliable. Here is a possible alternative. We use these
Swagelok fittings all the time on both pressure and vacuum systems in many
aerospace applications. I found fittings here for 6mm but not sure just what
size brake lines are. The particular fitting I found here is stainless steel
but they are also available in brass and carbon steel. These fittings do
tend to be a bit pricey. I would personally have no issues using one of
these but I would check first with an application engineer before I used one
for your purpose just to make sure. These fitting are different than most
common compression fittings in that they distort the end of the tubing a bit
so that the fitting cannot slip off.

Barry

http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=SS-6M0-6&item=20
b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3


The Swagelok medium-pressure tube fittings offer a leak-tight gas seal and
vibration resistance in applications up to 15 000 psig (1034 bar).

316 stainless steel specs.
Up to 15 000 psig (1034 bar)
Up to 1000°F (537°C)


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:12 -0800, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:

> I was driving the car when the brakes failed (rears) and it was still
> quite drivable, with no unpleasant feelings of not being able to stop.
> I have Akebonos with new rotors on the front, maybe that helps.

Wow that's quite a different experience than I had when I was driving an '87 
Toyota pickup when a rusted rear brake line blew out.  Pedal went to the floor, 
luckily I got some braking action at the very bottom of the travel but it was 
definitely quite unpleasant.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Peter Frederick]

I've used hundreds of Swage-Loc fittings over the years, and they are  
as subject to fatigue failures and extrusion failures as any  
compression fitting.  Better than most, as they require less pressure  
to seat correctly, but all the other caveats apply.  The worst  
problem with them is incorrect use -- you must NOT seat the tubing in  
the bottom of the fitting before tightening initially, or you WILL  
expand the end.  Then, when you need to take it apart, the tubing is  
swaged into the fitting and won't come out.  You can also get into  
the situation where the fitting is not sealing on the flange but  
won't tighten any more, too.  Big hassle.  The tubing must "float" in  
the fitting, the seal is where the "point" of the tapered cone is  
collapsed onto the tubing and the side of the cone against the outer  
taper on the fitting.  If the tubing is "flared" on the end, it was  
improperly installed.


I have persistent problems with leakage on some high pressure pumps  
using tapered compression fittings -- the line inside the fitting  
gradually collapses.


I also see quite a few stress corrosion failures on copper gas lines,  
although I would expect less trouble in a brake system -- better  
materials and far less flexing.


Brake lines are fairly unique in the fittings world -- they are  
subject to very high pressure fluctuations, which is NOT the normal  
situation, and those pressure can be quite high (less so with anti- 
lock brakes, but still high).


The pressure cycling is bad news for any compression fitting.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Barry Stark]

 I agree with Mitch that a proper flare connected with the proper fitting
should be perfectly reliable. Here is a possible alternative. We use these
Swagelok fittings all the time on both pressure and vacuum systems in many
aerospace applications. I found fittings here for 6mm but not sure just what
size brake lines are. The particular fitting I found here is stainless steel
but they are also available in brass and carbon steel. These fittings do
tend to be a bit pricey. I would personally have no issues using one of
these but I would check first with an application engineer before I used one
for your purpose just to make sure. These fitting are different than most
common compression fittings in that they distort the end of the tubing a bit
so that the fitting cannot slip off.

Barry 

http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=SS-6M0-6&item=20
b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3


The Swagelok medium-pressure tube fittings offer a leak-tight gas seal and
vibration resistance in applications up to 15 000 psig (1034 bar).

316 stainless steel specs.
Up to 15 000 psig (1034 bar)
Up to 1000°F (537°C) 


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Rick Knoble]

From: okd...@gmail.com
>
> How old is this Buick? Does it have a 2 circuit brake system or one? If one
> - I'd be more conservative with the repair. If two - and the line splice
> lets go, you'll still have some braking.
>
> > On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Allan Streib 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  I would not splice a brake line.

It is a 1996 w/ABS. It uses metric lines which have bubble flares (basically an 
unfinished double flare).
I have decided to put in two couplings under the drivers door sill. I bought a 
25 foot length of 3/16 steel tubing,
so if I screw some up in bending it, I will have plenty more. If it was a 
restoration, or something mint
that I wanted to keep unmolested, I would run them full length. It is my gf's 
daily beater, not a trailer queen. (yeah, I know, she needs a Benz)
I was driving the car when the brakes failed (rears) and it was still quite 
drivable,
with no unpleasant feelings of not being able to stop. I have Akebonos with new 
rotors on the front, maybe that helps.
I have attached a couple of pictures of how the under hood brake lines look. 
The dang car was built around them, or so it seems.

Rick
  
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Peter Frederick]

Compression fittings work fine in situations where the pressure does  
not change significantly.  When the pressure cycles, you eventually  
deform either the tubing or the collar, and they leak.  Temperature  
cycling is also bad for the same reason.


The result is that the tubing can shrink inside the collar.  this  
leads to leaks or fractures, as stress corrosion is also a result of  
strain changes.


Flare fittings can also leak, but there is a very small chance in  
comparison that the tubing will come loose and slide out of the fitting.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[OK Don]

How old is this Buick? Does it have a 2 circuit brake system or one? If one
- I'd be more conservative with the repair. If two - and the line splice
lets go, you'll still have some braking.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

>  On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Allan Streib 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would not splice a brake line.


>>> Not trying to be a smartypants, but what do they make compression
>>> fittings for, then?  I am no expert but I thought splicing a brake
>>> line was a pretty normal and uncontroversial thing to do when the
>>> existing line is difficult to replace in one piece, as long as you do
>>> it right.
>>>
>>
>> It just adds another point of failure to a critical system.  I
>> personally would not do it.  I'm not saying it can't be done.
>> Also a regular compression fitting is not suitable for brake lines.  If
>> you are going to splice it, you need to do a proper double flare.
>> Allan
>> 1983 300D
>>
> ___
>

-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Gerry Archer]

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Allan Streib  
wrote:

I would not splice a brake line.



Not trying to be a smartypants, but what do they make compression
fittings for, then?  I am no expert but I thought splicing a brake
line was a pretty normal and uncontroversial thing to do when the
existing line is difficult to replace in one piece, as long as you do
it right.


It just adds another point of failure to a critical system.  I
personally would not do it.  I'm not saying it can't be done.
Also a regular compression fitting is not suitable for brake lines.  If
you are going to splice it, you need to do a proper double flare.
Allan
1983 300D

___
Brake pressure meters used for adjusting the back brake pressure on 
performance

cars usually run up to 1000 psi so the max pressure probably doesn't exceed
that.

IIRC flare fittings are rated up to 2000 psi, so they should be okay if the 
flaring and

tightening is done properly.

When splicing brake lines years ago I seem to remember that flaring the 
brake
lines was a problem.  How well they work with brass flare fittings is a 
question.


But like Allan said, it's much better to use a new line since they're safer 
IMO.


Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Dieselhead]

I know that compression fittings in brake lines are supposed to be a 
no-no. BUT:  I used them on my bronco for years I owned it (16 years) 
and they were still fine when I sold it.   I also used two on my old 
1962 190Dc, that hat caused no problem either.  They do need to be 
clamped down tight.  I am not frightened of them.  I think the 
general warning is to keep stealership parts changer morons form 
using them.


Compression fittings are an invitation to sudden complete brake 
failure when the line pops apart.


The only acceptable fittings are flare fittings.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Peter Frederick]

Compression fittings are an invitation to sudden complete brake  
failure when the line pops apart.


The only acceptable fittings are flare fittings.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:


Also a regular compression fitting is not suitable for brake lines.  If
you are going to splice it, you need to do a proper double flare.


Agreed. But I don't see where an extra union with a flare on each end adds much 
fallibility to a fluid path that's already got a flare, line, flare, ABS box, 
flare, line, flare, crimp, hose, crimp, and banjo fitting in it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

Alex Chamberlain  writes:

> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
>>
>> I would not splice a brake line.
>>
>
> Not trying to be a smartypants, but what do they make compression
> fittings for, then?  I am no expert but I thought splicing a brake
> line was a pretty normal and uncontroversial thing to do when the
> existing line is difficult to replace in one piece, as long as you do
> it right.

It just adds another point of failure to a critical system.  I
personally would not do it.  I'm not saying it can't be done.

Also a regular compression fitting is not suitable for brake lines.  If
you are going to splice it, you need to do a proper double flare.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
>
> I would not splice a brake line.
>

Not trying to be a smartypants, but what do they make compression
fittings for, then?  I am no expert but I thought splicing a brake
line was a pretty normal and uncontroversial thing to do when the
existing line is difficult to replace in one piece, as long as you do
it right.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

Rick Knoble  writes:

> Is it acceptable to splice brake lines? I am working on an old Buick
> that has rear brake lines that are rusted through, but are still rust
> free by the door sill. I do have a double flare tool that I haven't
> used in decades. This should be fun... (not).

I would not splice a brake line.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Walt Zarnoch]

Iirc it's acceptable, as long as the proper coupling is used.

I run new ones the full length when I have to do lines, just to be safe.

Walt
On Feb 5, 2011 10:32 AM, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:
> Is it acceptable to splice brake lines? I am working on an old Buick that
has rear brake lines that are rusted through, but are still rust free by the
door sill. I do have a double flare tool that I haven't used in decades.
This should be fun... (not).
>
> Rick
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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[MBZ] Brake Lines

[Rick Knoble]

Is it acceptable to splice brake lines? I am working on an old Buick that has 
rear brake lines that are rusted through, but are still rust free by the door 
sill. I do have a double flare tool that I haven't used in decades. This should 
be fun... (not).

Rick

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Marshall Booth]

Alex Chamberlain wrote:
> On 7/17/07, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Are you suggesting that ALL the tools from a specific country are of the
>> same quality?
> 
> Of course not!  I don't pretend to have anything other than anecdotal
> evidence, but I have noticed that there seems to be a correlation in
> the quality of machined items and their country of origin.  I noticed
> the exact same quality hierarchy when working at a bicycle shop that
> sold a lot of imported Far Eastern bikes : mainland Chinese stuff the
> worst, Taiwanese better,  and Korean and Japanese obviously superior.

It's been my experience that in most countries, manufacturers are 
willing and able to supply whatever quality you're willing to pay for. 
Most people don't go to china for high quality, high priced items, but 
if they did, they'd likely find manufacturers willing and able to match 
most quality specifications.

Marshall
-- 
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 7/17/07, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Are you suggesting that ALL the tools from a specific country are of the
> same quality?

Of course not!  I don't pretend to have anything other than anecdotal
evidence, but I have noticed that there seems to be a correlation in
the quality of machined items and their country of origin.  I noticed
the exact same quality hierarchy when working at a bicycle shop that
sold a lot of imported Far Eastern bikes : mainland Chinese stuff the
worst, Taiwanese better,  and Korean and Japanese obviously superior.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Brake lines adjunct (Strange Days) - and ALFA's and memory lane

[BillR]

I'm glad to hear that as I loved driving both my '62 Spider and my '70 GTV,
but neither of them would start in the morning if someone had spit near them
during the night.  The grey market GTV was wonderful to drive, especially
fast when it was possible, and got 45 mpg at 75 mph with dual Webbers [when
they were tuned correctly].  When I sold the GTV and bought a new Chevy
Caprice my payments were less than upkeep had been on the Alfa [EXCEPT for
gas... '73 Caprice got 13 MPG].
BillR
Jacksonville FL
1962 Corvair [minor wreck - got the MB instead!!!]
1962 220Sb [RIP - head on crash at @ 50 mph]
1962 Alfa Spider - long gone
1970 Alfa GTV - long gone
1973 Caprice - swapped even for a 1973 Beetle - hail storm turned that into
a golf ball
1979 Bonneville - gave up at 192k miles
1975 Subaru Wagon - RIP the tin-worm at 140k miles
1975 240D - living death when taken over by 3 teenage daughters [teen-age
son was too young to drive]
1980 Mazda 929 - finally died at 245k miles
*** Assorted non-descript US and imported  ***
2001 Infinity I30  91K  - Wife's car
1980 300SD  292k miles and going strong - my baby.
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:31 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake lines adjunct (Strange Days)

Just on Sat I saw one of those Alfa GTV6s I think it was -- a buddy of mine
bought one of those ages ago after he finished school and got a real job.
He really liked it.  This one was in nice shape, even the AC was working (I
guess, it was about 90F and the guy driving it had the windows up, unless
that is some sort of Italian feature, which it no doubt could be).

--R

Fred Johnson wrote:
> What am I left driving that has a/c.?  The old reliable Alfa (!?).  
> The car that has not let me down in 3 years of ownership.
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Marshall Booth]

Alex Chamberlain wrote:
> On 7/17/07, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> While I do appreciate the finer tools, for my purposes a tool is utilitarian
>> and nearly anything will do.
> 
> But this is a false argument.  The better something works, the more
> utilitarian it is, and good tools are expensive secondarily for their
> form but primarily for their function.  For example, I recently had
> the chance to examine, side-by-side, three 12-point box wrenches in
> the same size, made respectively in the U.S., Taiwan, and mainland
> China.  There was a noticeable difference in the consistency and shape
> of the "teeth" within each box.  The U.S-made wrench had sharp edges
> and each tooth looked exactly the same as the next.  The Chinese
> wrench had round edges and some teeth were much larger than others.
> The Taiwanese was somewhere in between.  In this case I am sure that
> more precise forging techniques and better quality control meant that
> the U.S.-made wrench would be less likely to round off a bolt or nut.


Are you suggesting that ALL the tools from a specific country are of the 
same quality?

Marshall
-- 
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 7/17/07, Peter T. Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:54:29 -0700, you wrote:
>
>   In this case I am sure that
> >more precise forging techniques and better quality control meant that
> >the U.S.-made wrench would be less likely to round off a bolt or nut.
> >
> Why would that be?  A box wrench doesn't drive off it's points, it
> drives of a therotical point on it's flanks.

Surely it's the consistency and shape of the teeth, and in general the
overall precision with which the interior of the wrench corresponds to
the exterior of the nut, that determine the spread of the driving
force across the flats and the stability (and thus resistance to
rounding) of the wrench.  In other words, if a wrench fits the nut
snugly, it's less likely to slip, and a well-made wrench fits better.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Brake lines adjunct (Strange Days)

[Peter T . Arnold]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:31:21 -0500, you wrote:

>Just on Sat I saw one of those Alfa GTV6s I think it was -- a buddy of 
>mine bought one of those ages ago after he finished school and got a 
>real job.  He really liked it.  This one was in nice shape, even the AC 
>was working (I guess, it was about 90F and the guy driving it had the 
>windows up, unless that is some sort of Italian feature, which it no 
>doubt could be).
>
>--R
Wrong conclusion on an Italian car.  It doesn't mean the A/C works, it
means the windows don't!


--

Regards,

Peter T. Arnold

2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Peter T . Arnold]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:54:29 -0700, you wrote:

  In this case I am sure that
>more precise forging techniques and better quality control meant that
>the U.S.-made wrench would be less likely to round off a bolt or nut.
>
>Alex
>
Why would that be?  A box wrench doesn't drive off it's points, it
drives of a therotical point on it's flanks.

--

Regards,

Peter T. Arnold

2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Alex Chamberlain]

On 7/17/07, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> While I do appreciate the finer tools, for my purposes a tool is utilitarian
> and nearly anything will do.

But this is a false argument.  The better something works, the more
utilitarian it is, and good tools are expensive secondarily for their
form but primarily for their function.  For example, I recently had
the chance to examine, side-by-side, three 12-point box wrenches in
the same size, made respectively in the U.S., Taiwan, and mainland
China.  There was a noticeable difference in the consistency and shape
of the "teeth" within each box.  The U.S-made wrench had sharp edges
and each tooth looked exactly the same as the next.  The Chinese
wrench had round edges and some teeth were much larger than others.
The Taiwanese was somewhere in between.  In this case I am sure that
more precise forging techniques and better quality control meant that
the U.S.-made wrench would be less likely to round off a bolt or nut.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Brake lines adjunct (Strange Days)

[Rich Thomas]

Just on Sat I saw one of those Alfa GTV6s I think it was -- a buddy of 
mine bought one of those ages ago after he finished school and got a 
real job.  He really liked it.  This one was in nice shape, even the AC 
was working (I guess, it was about 90F and the guy driving it had the 
windows up, unless that is some sort of Italian feature, which it no 
doubt could be).

--R

Fred Johnson wrote:
> What am I left driving that has a/c.?  The old
> reliable Alfa (!?).  The car that has not let me down
> in 3 years of ownership.  
>
>   

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[MBZ] Brake lines adjunct (Strange Days)

[Fred Johnson]

BTW I do have some nice Craftsmen made in USA flare
wrenches ;-)

As you all know one of the brake lines split on the SD
on Friday.  Car is still waiting for my time.

Yesterday leaving work the check engine light came on
in the Civic.  Car was semi-driveable as I had no warm
idle. So that car is in the shop waiting for a cat.
converter and O2 sensor.

What am I left driving that has a/c.?  The old
reliable Alfa (!?).  The car that has not let me down
in 3 years of ownership.  

Someone cue the music and Rod Serling!!

Fred Johnson
Chicago
1977 240D
1983 300SD
1991 A/R 164L
1996 Civic


 

Bored stiff? Loosen up... 
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[andrew strasfogel]

While I do appreciate the finer tools, for my purposes a tool is utilitarian
and nearly anything will do.  The only power tool I use that might be
considered hazardous if it were substandard is a drill, and so I splurged
for a couple Asian-made Makita drills that are costlier than other brands.





On 7/16/07, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is this Sears thing recent? The last time I bought a few wrenches and
> sockets at Sears, they were made in USA --- couldn't have been more
> than six months ago.
>
> On 7/16/07, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It's almost *impossible* to find stuff that's *not* made in China!
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
> -Benjamin Disraeli
> '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[OK Don]

Is this Sears thing recent? The last time I bought a few wrenches and
sockets at Sears, they were made in USA --- couldn't have been more
than six months ago.

On 7/16/07, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's almost *impossible* to find stuff that's *not* made in China!
>


-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
-Benjamin Disraeli
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LarryT]

It's almost *impossible* to find stuff that's *not* made in China!

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter T. Arnold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines


> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:02:19 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>It's getting extremely hard to buy stuff that is not made in China -
>>thankfully the Craftsman stuff is
>>US made and high quality -
>>
>>Good luck -
>>
> I just bought a new Craftsman chop saw about $100.
>
> You guessed it, "Made in China" on the box...
>
> Not too surprised, we are in a global economy, like it or not.
>
> Finest high quality measuring tool are made by:
> 1)  Brown & Sharp
> 2) Starete 
> 3) Mitutoyo
>
> I spend my money on #3
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter T. Arnold
>
> 2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
> 1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
> 1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
> 1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
> Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!
>
> ___
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>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 - Release Date: 7/15/2007 
> 2:21 PM
>
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[E M]

the really sad thing is, not so many years ago, the pro could buy some of
his tools from Sears.

I had a really stuck bolt a few weeks ago  when I was changing a timing belt
and put a made in china wrench on it.  When they're really stuck, you fear
rounding the bolt head at times, but I had to laugh when I rounded the
wrench!  Well, I only laughed for a minute, then I was cursing!  hee hee.
But them's Americans sure does make good bolts!  :-)

Ed
300E

On 16/07/07, Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John M McIntosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Sadly this becomes a junk $10 wrench, versus a quality forever $50
> > wrench. Well the risk is?
>
> Most consumers don't really use tools seriously enough to care.  The
> junk wrench with the lifetime warranty is just fine for them.  The
> professional mechanic doesn't buy his tools at Sears anyway.
>
> Allan
> --
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LWB250]

Not to be a heretic, but since RLE broached the
subject, I'll pile on:

Ritter once mentioned that professional quality
wrenches just "felt good" in your hand, and the
ergonomics, if properly done, essentially made the
tool an extension of your body.

When I first heard him say this, I figured he was
having a flashback from his days in San Francisco.

A few weeks later I got my first Hazet wrench.  Holy
mother of pearl!  That wrench was like a fine piece of
machinery the way it fit my hand and worked the
fasteners when I used it.

I never bought a cheap wrench after that, and I don't
regret spending big $$ for good ones.

Dan


--- Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> John M McIntosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> 
> > Sadly this becomes a junk $10 wrench, versus a
> quality forever $50  
> > wrench. Well the risk is?
> 
> Most consumers don't really use tools seriously
> enough to care.  The
> junk wrench with the lifetime warranty is just fine
> for them.  The
> professional mechanic doesn't buy his tools at Sears
> anyway.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1966 230
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Allan Streib]

John M McIntosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Sadly this becomes a junk $10 wrench, versus a quality forever $50  
> wrench. Well the risk is?

Most consumers don't really use tools seriously enough to care.  The
junk wrench with the lifetime warranty is just fine for them.  The
professional mechanic doesn't buy his tools at Sears anyway.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1966 230

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[John M McIntosh]

On Jul 16, 2007, at 3:57 PM, E M wrote:

> Let me throw this out; I've never known a North American company to  
> set up shop in China, or to switch to suppliers from China because  
> they were trying to improve quality or offer a better product.  I'm  
> sure there is quality control in China, but the quality is  
> controlled at a made in China level.  I still think the good old US  
> has some of the highest quality standards in the world, be it a  
> wrench, auto part, garmet, or food product.  Perhpas if all these  
> stores keep selling junk long enough,  todays "junk" will become  
> the new accepted standard.  That would be ashame!  Then again, what  
> do I know, Walmart seems to be doing ok, so the people have spoken  
> with their wallets. :-)
>
> If I seem to be waving the stars and stripes at times, just to let  
> you all know, I'm not even American, but I recognise a good thing  
> when I see it! :-)
>
> Ed
> 300E

Sadly this becomes a junk $10 wrench, versus a quality forever $50  
wrench. Well the risk is?
Sadly that becomes a junk $30 tire that blows up, versus a $80 tire  
that likely will not. Way more risk, but not for the Chinese factory  
for some reason.

As I type this on an apple mac book pro which *is* made in china and  
apparently has a degree of quality control standards since it has the  
lowest historical repair issues for computers as collected by  
Consumer Reports.


PS should get oil in there too, managed to mention CR, macs, and  
tires all in one msg.


John
1983 300TDt  386k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1990's 300TDt  198k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1993 500SEL 194k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)



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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[E M]

Let me throw this out; I've never known a North American company to set up
shop in China, or to switch to suppliers from China because they were trying
to improve quality or offer a better product.  I'm sure there is quality
control in China, but the quality is controlled at a made in China level.  I
still think the good old US has some of the highest quality standards in the
world, be it a wrench, auto part, garmet, or food product.  Perhpas if all
these stores keep selling junk long enough,  todays "junk" will become the
new accepted standard.  That would be ashame!  Then again, what do I know,
Walmart seems to be doing ok, so the people have spoken with their wallets.
:-)

If I seem to be waving the stars and stripes at times, just to let you all
know, I'm not even American, but I recognise a good thing when I see it! :-)

Ed
300E

On 16/07/07, John M McIntosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This isn't so much a made in china thing, it's an issue with quality
> control and expectations from
> the buyer. It's not as if Sear actually had factories making this
> stuff (did they? Perhaps 100 years back?), they sent engineering
> specs (maybe not?) out
> and had USA companies build the stuff, then should have had QA
> confirm it was upto the engineering specs.
> Well maybe Sears tossed all their engineers so no-one is qualified to
> do that type of work, likely again too.
>
> Now they have factories in China make it, So where is the weak link,
> are the specs if they even exist crummy to begin with, or
> is there no quality checking? likely too.
>
>
> mmm, yet another example. I friend of mine bought some garage/shop
> cabinetry from Sears. the sides are particle board, he now has
> 6 sets he is returning today. All six sets have fractures on the
> particle boards. Why? Well he thinks they stacked them oh say 1000
> deep on some freighter so the weight fractured the ones at the bottom.
>
> Oh another diesel board a trucker there was complaining that taking
> supplies to Japan car plants in Alabama was the worst because they
> would reject the shipment if the plastic wrap wasn't to the
> specification. Why? Well if the supplier couldn't follow the
> instructions for wrapping
> the box, why would you think they read the specs for metallurgy
> involved?
>
> So if the spec says don't stack more than 50 deep, likely written on
> the box too, then you get them stacked 500 deep, why would you
> accept that? Apparently Sears does...
>
> On Jul 16, 2007, at 1:51 PM, E M wrote:
>
> > I went to Sears with the hope I'd find US made stuff too.  All the
> > socket
> > sets and wrenches were made in China.  I walked out with my money
> > in my
> > pocket.
>
> John
> 1983 300TDt  384k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
> 1990's 300TDt  198k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
> 1993 500SEL 194k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[John M McIntosh]

This isn't so much a made in china thing, it's an issue with quality  
control and expectations from
the buyer. It's not as if Sear actually had factories making this  
stuff (did they? Perhaps 100 years back?), they sent engineering  
specs (maybe not?) out
and had USA companies build the stuff, then should have had QA  
confirm it was upto the engineering specs.
Well maybe Sears tossed all their engineers so no-one is qualified to  
do that type of work, likely again too.

Now they have factories in China make it, So where is the weak link,  
are the specs if they even exist crummy to begin with, or
is there no quality checking? likely too.


mmm, yet another example. I friend of mine bought some garage/shop  
cabinetry from Sears. the sides are particle board, he now has
6 sets he is returning today. All six sets have fractures on the  
particle boards. Why? Well he thinks they stacked them oh say 1000
deep on some freighter so the weight fractured the ones at the bottom.

Oh another diesel board a trucker there was complaining that taking  
supplies to Japan car plants in Alabama was the worst because they
would reject the shipment if the plastic wrap wasn't to the  
specification. Why? Well if the supplier couldn't follow the  
instructions for wrapping
the box, why would you think they read the specs for metallurgy  
involved?

So if the spec says don't stack more than 50 deep, likely written on  
the box too, then you get them stacked 500 deep, why would you
accept that? Apparently Sears does...

On Jul 16, 2007, at 1:51 PM, E M wrote:

> I went to Sears with the hope I'd find US made stuff too.  All the  
> socket
> sets and wrenches were made in China.  I walked out with my money  
> in my
> pocket.

John
1983 300TDt  384k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1990's 300TDt  198k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)
1993 500SEL 194k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac)



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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Chris Kueny]

I've found a reliable source of high quality American made toolsLarry 
Esq.  Look for a subject line that reads something along the line of 'Buy my 
stuff".

Chris Kueny ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
78 Chevy Custom deluxe
'85 300TD
'02 Subaru Outback



- Original Message - 
From: "E M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines


>I went to Sears with the hope I'd find US made stuff too.  All the socket
> sets and wrenches were made in China.  I walked out with my money in my
> pocket.  I talked to someone there and they said no one will pay for the 
> US
> made stuff now.  I said I'm standing here with my money in hand, don't I
> count?  Their reply was the stuff made in China has a life time warranty
> (which to me is the same as saying one use) and then bring it back.  I 
> said
> that would be fine providing my time was worth the same per hour as the 
> guy
> who made the tool, however.given the fine quality of most products 
> made
> in China, and their attention to quality control, think I'll just spring 
> for
> the US made stuff.  Yeah, it cost more, but when I factor everything in, 
> the
> cheap stuff ends up being just way too expensive!
>
> Hey, any of you SEARs guys reading any of these posts and taking note??
>
> Ed
> 300E
>
> On 16/07/07, Peter T. Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:02:19 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> >It's getting extremely hard to buy stuff that is not made in China -
>> >thankfully the Craftsman stuff is
>> >US made and high quality -
>> >
>> >Good luck -
>> >
>> I just bought a new Craftsman chop saw about $100.
>>
>> You guessed it, "Made in China" on the box...
>>
>> Not too surprised, we are in a global economy, like it or not.
>>
>> Finest high quality measuring tool are made by:
>> 1)  Brown & Sharp
>> 2) Starete 
>> 3) Mitutoyo
>>
>> I spend my money on #3
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Peter T. Arnold
>>
>> 2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
>> 1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
>> 1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
>> 1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
>> Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!
>>
>> ___
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>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
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>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[E M]

I went to Sears with the hope I'd find US made stuff too.  All the socket
sets and wrenches were made in China.  I walked out with my money in my
pocket.  I talked to someone there and they said no one will pay for the US
made stuff now.  I said I'm standing here with my money in hand, don't I
count?  Their reply was the stuff made in China has a life time warranty
(which to me is the same as saying one use) and then bring it back.  I said
that would be fine providing my time was worth the same per hour as the guy
who made the tool, however.given the fine quality of most products made
in China, and their attention to quality control, think I'll just spring for
the US made stuff.  Yeah, it cost more, but when I factor everything in, the
cheap stuff ends up being just way too expensive!

Hey, any of you SEARs guys reading any of these posts and taking note??

Ed
300E

On 16/07/07, Peter T. Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:02:19 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> >It's getting extremely hard to buy stuff that is not made in China -
> >thankfully the Craftsman stuff is
> >US made and high quality -
> >
> >Good luck -
> >
> I just bought a new Craftsman chop saw about $100.
>
> You guessed it, "Made in China" on the box...
>
> Not too surprised, we are in a global economy, like it or not.
>
> Finest high quality measuring tool are made by:
> 1)  Brown & Sharp
> 2) Starete 
> 3) Mitutoyo
>
> I spend my money on #3
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter T. Arnold
>
> 2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
> 1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
> 1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
> 1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
> Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Peter T . Arnold]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:02:19 -0400, you wrote:


>It's getting extremely hard to buy stuff that is not made in China - 
>thankfully the Craftsman stuff is
>US made and high quality -
>
>Good luck -
>
I just bought a new Craftsman chop saw about $100.

You guessed it, "Made in China" on the box...

Not too surprised, we are in a global economy, like it or not.

Finest high quality measuring tool are made by:
1)  Brown & Sharp   
2) Starete 
3) Mitutoyo

I spend my money on #3


--

Regards,

Peter T. Arnold

2007 HHR, 2.4L/Auto, LT2, 12Kmi, No problems!
1987 300SDL  280KMI  Inherited by Grandson
1995 F-250 PowerChoke  199Kmi
1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that is!

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LarryT]

Hello Scott,
I changed the metal brake lines and the rubber hoses, calipers, rotors, 
etc last weekend on my 91 W124.  I used 3 flare nut wrenches IIRC - 17mm & 
13mm for the rubber to metal connection at the chassis & a 13mm where the 
rubber hose connects to the caliper.

I bought a 5 pc set of Craftsman flare nut  wrenches from Sears not long 
ago for around $30 I believe.   IIRC they were on sale.

It's getting extremely hard to buy stuff that is not made in China - 
thankfully the Craftsman stuff is
US made and high quality -

Good luck -

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Ritchey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines


>I second this suggestion.  This is one place that you want a good quality
> flare nut wrench.  I had some cheapies (Whitney or Harbor ... don't 
> recall)
> that would round off the nuts like an open-end wrench.  Then I got a good
> US-made flare-nut wrench and had no problems since.  Since you only need 
> one
> or two sizes (not a whole set) even a great wrench is not so costly.
>
> Scott Ritchey
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of LWB250
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 20:56
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines
>
> Be sure to get a set of flare nut wrenches (metric, of
> course) before you start in on this stuff.  Regular
> box-end wrenches will chew up the fittings.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
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>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/898 - Release Date: 7/12/2007 
> 4:08 PM
>
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Loren Faeth]

What I used to do, when all the FLAPS had was SAE thread brake line, 
was to buy the length of SAE stuff longer than I needed, the cut the 
flare off one end, and dump the nuts off.  Then i;d take the nuts 
from the piece i was replacing and slide them on , in the right 
orientation, then bend and cut to length.

The next step was to put a double flare on the cut end.  It usually 
took me 2 or 3 tries to get a god one using the 1/16 inch double 
flare pin.  The pin often breaks, so it is good to get at least 2 
.  I buy them from Snappy.  Don't bother asking for the warranty 
replacement.  The last time I had to wait until  he ordered them and 
they come in.  So that car was down a while.

Loren

> > > Does anyone have any experience buying pre formed
> > hard
> > > brake lines or bending their own?  Couldn't find
> > them
> > > on Rusty's site.
> > >
> > > Had an experience driving home from work yesterday
> > in
> > > the SD wherein I'll have to replace one of the
> > hard
> > > brake lines for the front brakes.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Fred Johnson
> > > Chicago
> > > 1977 240D
> > > 1983 300SD
> > > 1991 A/R 164L
> > > 1996 Civic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network
> > Research Panel today!
> >
>http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
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>
>
>
>
>
>Got a little couch potato?
>Check out fun summer activities for kids.
>http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
> 
>
>
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Loren Faeth 


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Scott Ritchey]

I second this suggestion.  This is one place that you want a good quality
flare nut wrench.  I had some cheapies (Whitney or Harbor ... don't recall)
that would round off the nuts like an open-end wrench.  Then I got a good
US-made flare-nut wrench and had no problems since.  Since you only need one
or two sizes (not a whole set) even a great wrench is not so costly.

Scott Ritchey

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of LWB250
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 20:56
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

Be sure to get a set of flare nut wrenches (metric, of
course) before you start in on this stuff.  Regular
box-end wrenches will chew up the fittings.

Dan



   


Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LWB250]

Be sure to get a set of flare nut wrenches (metric, of
course) before you start in on this stuff.  Regular
box-end wrenches will chew up the fittings.

Dan



   

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LarryT]

Hi Fred,
I bought 2 from Rusty - the 2 rear ones on my 91 300D are bad - the 
fittings
are rounded off.  Looks like someone used a pair of pliers on them.  So, I
spoke with Rusty and he ordered them - one was in stock the other came from
Germany.  I was surprised to learn one was no longer stocked and it required
an order from Germany.
I have them both now but have not yet installed either yet.  I
bought 3 tools to bend metal brake lines - they're pretty inexpensive and I
wanted one that would not crimp the pipe.   Don't know about yours, but the
ones on my '91 W124 have a special green coating on them.  The coating looks
like Army green and seems very hard.  Buying a straight piece ready made
from FLAPs would work but it would not have the proper coatng so I
dropped that idea.
I am replacing my rear calipers also - again, the PO screwed the bleed 
valves up
pretty badly - they were rounded off, likely the same friggin PO using
the same friggin pair of pliers.  A couple broke off.   Anyway, a fellow 
lister (Thanks!!) sold me
a set of calipers, pads and  rotors for both the front & rear  of my 91 
300D.  The front ones went
on easily when I installed them last weekend.
So, to answer your question - Rusty sells them but they are not in the 
Online Catalog,  you'll need to send him a note or ask a online question. 
He'll probably get the brake line from MB but you get a discount not 
available from MB-USA.   Then you will have to bend them.
You should probably replace the rubber hoses at the same time.

Good luck -

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
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.
- Original Message - 
From: "Fred Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Brake Lines


> Does anyone have any experience buying pre formed hard
> brake lines or bending their own?  Couldn't find them
> on Rusty's site.
>
> Had an experience driving home from work yesterday in
> the SD wherein I'll have to replace one of the hard
> brake lines for the front brakes.
>
> Thanks,
> Fred Johnson
> Chicago
> 1977 240D
> 1983 300SD
> 1991 A/R 164L
> 1996 Civic
>
>
>
> 
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
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>
>
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> 4:08 PM
>


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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Fred Johnson]

Dan and Rich, thanks for your motivation.  Will have
to go out to the NAPA and get started.

Fred
--- Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> You can get the tube at the auto parts store, and
> the fittings (make 
> sure you put them on before you do the flare!) and
> the flaring and 
> bending tools, which aren't much money (or the auto
> parts store might 
> let you borrow them).  It is not hard to do if you
> just don't bend too 
> far or too fast.  I have made up lines before, the
> hardest part is not 
> cutting it too short!
> 
> --R
> 
> Fred Johnson wrote:
> > Does anyone have any experience buying pre formed
> hard
> > brake lines or bending their own?  Couldn't find
> them
> > on Rusty's site.
> >
> > Had an experience driving home from work yesterday
> in
> > the SD wherein I'll have to replace one of the
> hard
> > brake lines for the front brakes.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fred Johnson
> > Chicago
> > 1977 240D
> > 1983 300SD
> > 1991 A/R 164L
> > 1996 Civic
> >
> >
> >  
>

> > Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network
> Research Panel today!  
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[Rich Thomas]

You can get the tube at the auto parts store, and the fittings (make 
sure you put them on before you do the flare!) and the flaring and 
bending tools, which aren't much money (or the auto parts store might 
let you borrow them).  It is not hard to do if you just don't bend too 
far or too fast.  I have made up lines before, the hardest part is not 
cutting it too short!

--R

Fred Johnson wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience buying pre formed hard
> brake lines or bending their own?  Couldn't find them
> on Rusty's site.
>
> Had an experience driving home from work yesterday in
> the SD wherein I'll have to replace one of the hard
> brake lines for the front brakes.
>
> Thanks,
> Fred Johnson
> Chicago
> 1977 240D
> 1983 300SD
> 1991 A/R 164L
> 1996 Civic
>
>
>   
> 
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 
>
>
>
> ___
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> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>   

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Re: [MBZ] Brake Lines

[LWB250]

IIRC, when you order a hard brake line from MB, it
comes unbent.  At least ones for older cars do.  I
think I had to replace a couple of lines on a 114 one
time, and they came straight.

There are cheap hand held tubing benders that are
pretty easy to use.  Buy one and practice on a scrap
piece.  Just remember - like bending conduit, you're
better off getting close and then tweakig it than
going for the full bend out of the gate.

Dan




 

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[MBZ] Brake Lines

[Fred Johnson]

Does anyone have any experience buying pre formed hard
brake lines or bending their own?  Couldn't find them
on Rusty's site.

Had an experience driving home from work yesterday in
the SD wherein I'll have to replace one of the hard
brake lines for the front brakes.

Thanks,
Fred Johnson
Chicago
1977 240D
1983 300SD
1991 A/R 164L
1996 Civic


  

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