Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Your HF adapters to press out/in a LBJ in a 124? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 2:36 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes Rent, Sell, or donate? Describe! :-) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Your HF adapters to press out/in a LBJ in a 124? Yes. Assuming that 201 and 124 share parts, since we don't own (and never have) a 124. I would _love_ a 124 diesel 4wd wagon. Maybe two. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Rent, Sell, or donate? Describe! :-) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
I'll do that when I get home (I'm on vacation this week). Basically, you need to grind down the head so that it will fit inside the steering knuckle and weld some triangular plates to the sides so the damned cheapo casting won't bend all to h... and back when you try to push the joint in. If you take the boot off, the hole in the tool is the right size to push the joint in without an adapter. If you are feeling really frisky, bore out the coarse threaded hole and re-tap for a fine thread and make a new screw -- might be somewhat easier to use that way. Peter On Oct 19, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Can you send me photos of the modified press and any other bushings used on the 126? I need to do that soon. Thanks! If you can provide drawings/dimensions of the parts you welded on, that would be helpful also. Jim, can you send dimensions of the bushing you made? Thanks! ID OD and length. You will need an adapter to push the old joint out, as none of the ones in the box are the correct size. You can use the supplied ones to push the new one in. I didn't have any trouble with using the HF tool as is, other than needing to tap a couple times to get it started back in. However, it is NOT possible to use that tool to get a W126/W123 ball joint installed without extensive modifications. We have sacrificed my original tool for that job (which is quite easy now), but I have to get another one to do the ball joints in the 88 TE as the necessary re-enforcement plates now prevent getting the tool over the control arm in the W124. As noted, the notch must point toward the centerline of the car. Sometimes there are two, so you have to guess which way it goes, but they ARE directional. I strongly recommend using the PRESS to remove and install the joints, do NOT hammer on the control arm if you can avoid it, as this can do nasty things to it. Under no circumstances should you use heat at all, especially not heat to red hot, as this will cause cracks, deformation, and can alter the hardness and cause deformation in use along with loose fitting ball joints. They are press fit, and if the press is correctly aligned to push straight, they will come in and out with minimal fuss. Peter -Original Message- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 19, 2010 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service- kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame- press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter- set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Does anybody have the specs or details on this water pipe deal for removing them? On 10/19/2010 8:23 AM, Dieselhead wrote: You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Jim Cathey already posted that: I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! Does anybody have the specs or details on this water pipe deal for removing them? On 10/19/2010 8:23 AM, Dieselhead wrote: You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Rent, Sell, or donate? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101021/d1134d41/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Awesome - thanks Jim! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 11:01 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes My (amended) notes on the subject: http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/mb190dlog.html#8Sep2008 -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101021/71644432/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
I agree that pushing on the LBJ is relatively straight forward. The tricky part is holding the control arm against the pushing force. An adapter for the bottom of the control arm needs to be made to do three things: (1) inside diameter larger than OD of LBJ ridge, but smaller than bottom of control arm so the force is applied to the control arm, (2) angled correctly so that press lower jaw is in correct alignment to push the LBJ directly down, and (3) enough depth to allow the LBJ to push out but not so deep that the press won't fit, given that an adapter may also be needed to push on the top of the LBJ. Does anyone know the OD of the bottom of the LBJ and the depth of LBJ part that presses into the control arm? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes All you need is something more or less cylindrical that will bear on the top of the ball joint, fit through the hole in the control arm, and extend up beyond the top of the post. We used some bearing retainer clamps my brother had sitting around, but anything will work. If you have access to a lathe, you could easily turn an sleeve that will fit into one of the recesses in the cap for the tool, and neck down to fit the ball joint properly. Wouldn't even have to remove the boot that way, and the tool will then become self aligning. I think I'll do this when I get around to getting a new HF tool and replacing the ball joints in the TE (fairly soon, I think). If, however, you think the inner bushings are bad, replace the control arm. Vastly easier, as you will have to make a tool to properly swage the new bushings in place (no, they do NOT press in) correctly aligned and square. Even at home hobby rates, this is a no-brainer for me, I just want the car running. Peter -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net Sent: Oct 20, 2010 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101021/b3ca1936/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Does anyone know the OD of the bottom of the LBJ and the depth of LBJ part that presses into the control arm? I think Jim has already provided this? From his notes: I then cut off a short section of the 2 pipe, it was about perfect as-is. (28mm long and 60mm in diameter.) I put the 2 on the bottom for the ball joint to drop into and applied the big Harbor Freight C clamp. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:17 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I agree that pushing on the LBJ is relatively straight forward. The tricky part is holding the control arm against the pushing force. An adapter for the bottom of the control arm needs to be made to do three things: (1) inside diameter larger than OD of LBJ ridge, but smaller than bottom of control arm so the force is applied to the control arm, (2) angled correctly so that press lower jaw is in correct alignment to push the LBJ directly down, and (3) enough depth to allow the LBJ to push out but not so deep that the press won't fit, given that an adapter may also be needed to push on the top of the LBJ. Does anyone know the OD of the bottom of the LBJ and the depth of LBJ part that presses into the control arm? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:51 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes All you need is something more or less cylindrical that will bear on the top of the ball joint, fit through the hole in the control arm, and extend up beyond the top of the post. We used some bearing retainer clamps my brother had sitting around, but anything will work. If you have access to a lathe, you could easily turn an sleeve that will fit into one of the recesses in the cap for the tool, and neck down to fit the ball joint properly. Wouldn't even have to remove the boot that way, and the tool will then become self aligning. I think I'll do this when I get around to getting a new HF tool and replacing the ball joints in the TE (fairly soon, I think). If, however, you think the inner bushings are bad, replace the control arm. Vastly easier, as you will have to make a tool to properly swage the new bushings in place (no, they do NOT press in) correctly aligned and square. Even at home hobby rates, this is a no-brainer for me, I just want the car running. Peter -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net Sent: Oct 20, 2010 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/2010102 1/b3ca1936/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
All you need is something more or less cylindrical that will bear on the top of the ball joint, fit through the hole in the control arm, and extend up beyond the top of the post. We used some bearing retainer clamps my brother had sitting around, but anything will work. If you have access to a lathe, you could easily turn an sleeve that will fit into one of the recesses in the cap for the tool, and neck down to fit the ball joint properly. Wouldn't even have to remove the boot that way, and the tool will then become self aligning. I think I'll do this when I get around to getting a new HF tool and replacing the ball joints in the TE (fairly soon, I think). If, however, you think the inner bushings are bad, replace the control arm. Vastly easier, as you will have to make a tool to properly swage the new bushings in place (no, they do NOT press in) correctly aligned and square. Even at home hobby rates, this is a no-brainer for me, I just want the car running. Peter -Original Message- From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net Sent: Oct 20, 2010 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I found the metal bits in the Harbor Freight adapter kit. Both are made from galvanized water pipe. The main one is 48mm long, and 45mm in diameter (OD). It's the one I slit down the side and welded back together slightly smaller in diameter. The other one in there is 28mm long and 60mm in diameter, just sliced off the threaded end of a nipple. These are _nothing_ special! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
My (amended) notes on the subject: http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/mb190dlog.html#8Sep2008 -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101018/40 3c67e7/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101019/4b020186/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service-kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.html The first two look like the same press, just vary in the adapters supplied. The third is an adapter set. I suspect if you bought all three you might still find yourself making a custom adapter, but let's wait until somebody who has been there and done that responds. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Just the C-clamp thingy. I've had to make adapters out of water pipe. Slitting and welding was required in my case. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
You will need an adapter to push the old joint out, as none of the ones in the box are the correct size. You can use the supplied ones to push the new one in. I didn't have any trouble with using the HF tool as is, other than needing to tap a couple times to get it started back in. However, it is NOT possible to use that tool to get a W126/W123 ball joint installed without extensive modifications. We have sacrificed my original tool for that job (which is quite easy now), but I have to get another one to do the ball joints in the 88 TE as the necessary re-enforcement plates now prevent getting the tool over the control arm in the W124. As noted, the notch must point toward the centerline of the car. Sometimes there are two, so you have to guess which way it goes, but they ARE directional. I strongly recommend using the PRESS to remove and install the joints, do NOT hammer on the control arm if you can avoid it, as this can do nasty things to it. Under no circumstances should you use heat at all, especially not heat to red hot, as this will cause cracks, deformation, and can alter the hardness and cause deformation in use along with loose fitting ball joints. They are press fit, and if the press is correctly aligned to push straight, they will come in and out with minimal fuss. Peter -Original Message- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 19, 2010 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
You should lend the tool to him. --R On 10/19/2010 10:10 AM, Peter Frederick wrote: You will need an adapter to push the old joint out, as none of the ones in the box are the correct size. You can use the supplied ones to push the new one in. I didn't have any trouble with using the HF tool as is, other than needing to tap a couple times to get it started back in. However, it is NOT possible to use that tool to get a W126/W123 ball joint installed without extensive modifications. We have sacrificed my original tool for that job (which is quite easy now), but I have to get another one to do the ball joints in the 88 TE as the necessary re-enforcement plates now prevent getting the tool over the control arm in the W124. As noted, the notch must point toward the centerline of the car. Sometimes there are two, so you have to guess which way it goes, but they ARE directional. I strongly recommend using the PRESS to remove and install the joints, do NOT hammer on the control arm if you can avoid it, as this can do nasty things to it. Under no circumstances should you use heat at all, especially not heat to red hot, as this will cause cracks, deformation, and can alter the hardness and cause deformation in use along with loose fitting ball joints. They are press fit, and if the press is correctly aligned to push straight, they will come in and out with minimal fuss. Peter -Original Message- From: Dieselhead126die...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 19, 2010 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Jim, Will your adapters work on a 124 and are you willing to rent them? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes Just the C-clamp thingy. I've had to make adapters out of water pipe. Slitting and welding was required in my case. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101019/84fbb636/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
That might be possible. Removal is no problem on the W126, a small sledge hammer works great. Going back in requires a tool. Peter -Original Message- From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net Sent: Oct 19, 2010 9:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You should lend the tool to him. --R On 10/19/2010 10:10 AM, Peter Frederick wrote: You will need an adapter to push the old joint out, as none of the ones in the box are the correct size. You can use the supplied ones to push the new one in. I didn't have any trouble with using the HF tool as is, other than needing to tap a couple times to get it started back in. However, it is NOT possible to use that tool to get a W126/W123 ball joint installed without extensive modifications. We have sacrificed my original tool for that job (which is quite easy now), but I have to get another one to do the ball joints in the 88 TE as the necessary re-enforcement plates now prevent getting the tool over the control arm in the W124. As noted, the notch must point toward the centerline of the car. Sometimes there are two, so you have to guess which way it goes, but they ARE directional. I strongly recommend using the PRESS to remove and install the joints, do NOT hammer on the control arm if you can avoid it, as this can do nasty things to it. Under no circumstances should you use heat at all, especially not heat to red hot, as this will cause cracks, deformation, and can alter the hardness and cause deformation in use along with loose fitting ball joints. They are press fit, and if the press is correctly aligned to push straight, they will come in and out with minimal fuss. Peter -Original Message- From: Dieselhead126die...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 19, 2010 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Can you send me photos of the modified press and any other bushings used on the 126? I need to do that soon. Thanks! If you can provide drawings/dimensions of the parts you welded on, that would be helpful also. Jim, can you send dimensions of the bushing you made? Thanks! ID OD and length. You will need an adapter to push the old joint out, as none of the ones in the box are the correct size. You can use the supplied ones to push the new one in. I didn't have any trouble with using the HF tool as is, other than needing to tap a couple times to get it started back in. However, it is NOT possible to use that tool to get a W126/W123 ball joint installed without extensive modifications. We have sacrificed my original tool for that job (which is quite easy now), but I have to get another one to do the ball joints in the 88 TE as the necessary re-enforcement plates now prevent getting the tool over the control arm in the W124. As noted, the notch must point toward the centerline of the car. Sometimes there are two, so you have to guess which way it goes, but they ARE directional. I strongly recommend using the PRESS to remove and install the joints, do NOT hammer on the control arm if you can avoid it, as this can do nasty things to it. Under no circumstances should you use heat at all, especially not heat to red hot, as this will cause cracks, deformation, and can alter the hardness and cause deformation in use along with loose fitting ball joints. They are press fit, and if the press is correctly aligned to push straight, they will come in and out with minimal fuss. Peter -Original Message- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 19, 2010 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes You need the 3 in one for sure. I used that and a BFH on the 87 300D in April. You can find the running commentary in the archive. The commentary on doing the rear subframe mounts is in there also. The press as supplied is enough to get the new joints in. If you have an oreally autozona or advanced or other FLAPS in town, you can rent their press for free. The oreally one is exactly the same as the HF one, except for the case. To get the old bj out, take off the boot and put a socket over the pin and whack the socket with a hammer. You want to beat on the ball holder, not the forging. The other alternative is to saw off the pin. I used the c press to push in the new joint. The notch on the new ball joint points toward the centerline of the car. I also beat on the c press to assist it and prevent springing the press. (tighten, whack, tighten, whack etc.) I was able to combine the HF sale and the 20% off coupon to buy the BJ press. But I used the oreally one on my car. Had planned to use the HF one on the 126, but so far have spent the summer refurbishing the garage. Someone had a design to use water pipe to make an adapter for removal. I would recommend buying one or two new boots for the BJ from Rusty when you order. There is a fair chance that you may cut a boot while pressing in the new joint. Check to see the boots are the correct ones before starting. I ended up with tie rod end boots. After consulting with the Finance Minister and the Secretary of Labor (SWMBO), I'm going to just replace the ball joints. I see that Harbor Freight has their ball joint press kits on sale, which of these three should I get? http://www.harborfreight.com/four-wheel-drive-ball-joint-service-kit-4065.ht ml http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-ball-joint-u-joint-c-frame-press-service -kit-38335.html http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-master-ball-joint-adapter-set-66958.ht ml -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:25 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Will your adapters work on a 124 and are you willing to rent them? I'm told a 201 is the same, which is what I used it on. I'm not sure I could even _find_ the thing, given the current disarray in the garage. I'll look later. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] LBJ woes
Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? If you're going THERE, why not replace the complete control arm and not mess with BJ and bushing? Oops, forget I said that. This ain't your father's W123. $200 each. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
It will be cheaper to replace the lower control arm -- that will include new bushings, new ball joints and is a quick swap compared to the chore or swaging in the new bushings and pressing in and out a new ball joint. You will get eaten by the labor doing the replacement parts vs the whole control arm. You will have to get a front end alignment anyway. Peter -Original Message- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Oct 18, 2010 11:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] LBJ woes Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
Oh. Lower Ball Joint. I saw the subject and thought we were going political with Lyndon Baynes Johnson. lol Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
You may be right. About $150 difference (~2 hours labor) between one side complete assembly and all the repair kits/parts for same. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes It will be cheaper to replace the lower control arm -- that will include new bushings, new ball joints and is a quick swap compared to the chore or swaging in the new bushings and pressing in and out a new ball joint. You will get eaten by the labor doing the replacement parts vs the whole control arm. You will have to get a front end alignment anyway. Peter -Original Message- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Oct 18, 2010 11:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] LBJ woes Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes
I've got play in the steering, but haven't decisively narrowed it down yet (still need to replace center drag link). I tested one LBJ using a long pry bar and suitable fulcrum, perhaps I really need an assistant to do it right. Bottom line is the steering is stiff with some play, two lower ball joints are highly suspect, and a complete failure mode of wheel departing car and driver becoming passenger followed by bad and expensive noises. I'm going to replace the lower ball joints, I simply need to decide how much further to go. I need to call my indie and get some quotes. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] LBJ woes If the oel made the noise go away, and there is no play, why not just drive it? As long as there is no play, you are not in any danger to drive it. If it starts to wander, then check the ball joint for play. The inner bushings may be checked, but still working. Until it has worn to the place that it wanders more than you can stand, there is no problem. Saturday I had a few hours to work on The Project (aka '95 E300 Diesel) so I replaced the tie rod ends and steering damper and rebuilt the idler arm, and also investigated the source of the groaning noise at the right front of the car, which occurs when turning the steering wheel. Also tried to fix or diagnose the stiff steering. My conclusion is that at least on LBJ is bad (left has ripped boot) and one questionable. Left has black boot, quite aged and torn. Right has newer looking boot, brown in color, which is intact. I injected about 1 mL of ATF into the right side, which cured the noise IF that was the cause vice a tie rod end (replaced tie rods and injected at the same time, had the car up on jack stands and wheel off). Stiffness seems a little better. Right side LBJ has no play as far as I can tell. My dilemma; how far do I go? Whole hog rebuild of lower control arms including the inner bushings? They are old and checkered looking, probably original with 275k miles on them. I don't want to drive the car too much until the LBJ's are done, and I'm tempted to have a garage do the work, as I don't own the spring tool nor the LBJ press nor the special tool for the inner bushings. I'll bet the bill will be around $300 for just the LBJs, which I think is a fair price but I'm getting sick and tired of sinking money into this car. Anyone know the book time for LBJ's and inner bushings on the lower control arms? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 330k miles '95 E300 275k miles (project) '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101018/403c67e7/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
