Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Speed, outside temp, and fuel quality will all have a huge effect on the mpg of a 240D. Unfortunately you can't control 2 of those 3 factors... Hammie is suffering right now with a lousy tank of fuel that I got last week at a station I've been to many times. I *should* have stopped for fuel on the way TO work but decided to get it at the station near work instead. Dumb on 2 counts the station near work was $2.75 while the one on the way to work was $2.59 and this tank has been a real dog. I think I've actually got a little gelling going on, I put a bottle of Powerservice in today, hope that helps things. Of course its wicked cold, this wouldn't ever happen when it was warm out. 8 degrees at 7pm... I'll be putting the block heater on in the morning. He started today at 11 but wasn't real keen on the idea. -Curt '83 240D Hammie 253kmi Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:01:21 -0700 From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks. You know what though, this morning was a different story. Nice pep at the same time and temp as yesterday's sluggishness. In fact, that's not the only inconsistency: The mileage suffered, falling from the high of 32.6 to around 25 on the next two tanks. I am baffled as to why. Does outside temperature affect mileage? We got the higher mileage in warmer weather. I mean the engine temp was running the same, but the outside temp was colder. Could it be elevation? Searching for solution, and hoping to get MPGs above 30 again - to make up for the price of diesel vs. gas. What's up? Brian 83 240d - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Feb 27 00:05:35 2006 Received: from bay103-f17.bay103.hotmail.com ([65.54.174.27] helo=hotmail.com) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FDVtK-0008SJ-H8 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:05:31 + Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:05:26 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:05:21 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.32.128.146] X-Originating-Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bcc: Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:05:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2006 00:05:26.0864 (UTC) FILETIME=[83487D00:01C63B31] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:05:35 - Yeah, I do at least generally let the car reach normal operating temperature (and let it run for a while at that temp if time allows), but you're suggesting that a good drive would be even better, right? That makes sense. I've thought also that if it's an auto tranny, putting it into each gear a time or two might be useful to distribute fluid? Brian From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:35:22 -0800 Brian Chase wrote: For that matter, I was going to ask the cold-climate listers what they do about deciding whether to store their klattas in the winter, or drive them, and if they store them, do they start them like once a week, or do they pull out the battery and really mothball them. I've heard that, if you store a car, it's best *not* to start it periodically unless you're going to drive it far enough to get it up to operating temperature. Just starting it and letting it idle for a while, but not driving it hard enough to heat the oil up, tends to lead to a lot of water building up in the oil. ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
On Feb 26, 2006, at 5:35 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: I've heard that, if you store a car, it's best *not* to start it periodically unless you're going to drive it far enough to get it up to operating temperature. Just starting it and letting it idle for a while, but not driving it hard enough to heat the oil up, tends to lead to a lot of water building up in the oil. No more oil will build-up, the condensation that's already in there won't steam off. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
On Feb 26, 2006, at 7:05 PM, Brian Chase wrote: I've thought also that if it's an auto tranny, putting it into each gear a time or two might be useful to distribute fluid? This is a very good idea. It can keep the tranny fluid from leaking out. The convertor has an anti-drain down valve. Fluid can pass through but very slowly. Over time it will overfill the pan and can find its way out. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
John Berryman wrote: On Feb 26, 2006, at 5:35 PM, David Brodbeck wrote: I've heard that, if you store a car, it's best *not* to start it periodically unless you're going to drive it far enough to get it up to operating temperature. Just starting it and letting it idle for a while, but not driving it hard enough to heat the oil up, tends to lead to a lot of water building up in the oil. No more oil will build-up, the condensation that's already in there won't steam off. Right, and every time you run it you're creating more water (as a combustion byproduct), some of which will find its way into the oil. On a gasoline car, especially a carburated one, you'll also be adding gasoline from the rich mixture used on cold starts.
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Central MA. We hit -5F last night, the 240D was not interested in starting this morning. I put the block heater on for an hour and then thanked heaven that I bought a new battery the old one pooped out in about 20 seconds. The new one mananged to whip the starter around and get things going. One thing is for sure this car doesn't start as well with 15w50 in the crankcase as it did with 5w40! If I were keeping this car that alone would be enough for me to start buying Amsoil. -Curt Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:12:22 -0700 From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whereabouts do you live? That's about the temperature here. I know, look on Frappr. I probably will get a block heater at some point. Brian - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Feb 27 15:53:33 2006 Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.67]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FDkgm-0008UA-LC for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:53:33 + DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=XlzEvrRiD8da5UiYeox7MDJXojMAwbb0fZtFmUhc5AuxFAzMn/PEC5p6APslv7ws; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [65.110.128.59] (helo=[192.168.2.74]) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FDkgj-0002bd-QS for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:53:31 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John Berryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:53:28 -0500 To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: b3baf86f04a51c2f0f36c4a2948c83129ef193a6bfc3dd48d8c63b2f438db15243e61c24ae5efb39773bb16c9ad91485350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 65.110.128.59 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [MBZ] No starter response X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:53:33 - On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:34 AM, Brian Chase wrote: So it really sounds like this problem is specifically recognized by a few of you as a starter/solenoid going bad. Wish I'd kept the Auto Joke starter I put in then pulled out when I was trying to diagnose what turned out to be the siezed engine. Brian 83 240D I have purchased Bosch Reman starters from Rusty and feel the price is reasonable. Bosch also offers free towing for vehicles having a failure within 2 years. I'm not 100% sure this policy is still in effect but every one I bought had a little pamphlet in the box explaining such benefits. The guys at Bimby should be able to verify this. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
On Feb 27, 2006, at 10:52 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Central MA. We hit -5F last night, the 240D was not interested in starting this morning. I put the block heater on for an hour and then thanked heaven that I bought a new battery the old one pooped out in about 20 seconds. The new one mananged to whip the starter around and get things going. One thing is for sure this car doesn't start as well with 15w50 in the crankcase as it did with 5w40! If I were keeping this car that alone would be enough for me to start buying Amsoil. -Curt I would suggest more like 3 hours on the block heater. Although I haven't plugged anything in so far, this Winter as the temps have been above average. My Euro 190D 2.5 doesn't have a block heater.yet and started every time I asked it to. Albeit reluctantly a couple of times. I have a dedicated hardwired timer for the block heaters. I plug them in at night when the forecast threatens below zero temps and let the timer do its thing. This way I don't have to get up any earlier and I save my bones from that chilly eye-opener. I bought an Intermatic mechanical timer at Lowes, they also carry the digital version which looks the same from the outside. I have no reason for choosing one over the other. I have also had success with a timer that plugs into a wall outlet. These are a low cost viable alternative and all that I've seen have a 15amp rating, which is more than sufficient. I still have a couple of cars with 617.952s running M 1 15-50 in them, I'd be comparing apples to oranges when it comes to cranking speeds though as the 601 and 602 engines both have Amsoil 5w-40. Until now all I used was M1 15-50 in all of them. Try putting a quart of dino 5w-30 and 1 M 1 15-50 outside tonight and compare the pouring properties in the morning. I did this with different viscosities of both dino and synthetics at -27F a couple of years ago and the 15-50 syn poured right out. The dino 5w-30 didn't pour, rather it needed to be squeezed out like toothpaste. I found no reason to even break the seal on the other in between oils, as I was satisfied by checking the two extremes. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
I would suggest more like 3 hours on the block heater. Although I Around here between 1 and two hours seems to be the point beyond which extra heating time makes no difference. Colder, and three hours could well be needed. I have a dedicated hardwired timer for the block heaters. Mine is on X10 with the rest of the household junk. But now that I don't work I don't ever bother to plug the car in unless I'm going to go somewhere, and that's never all that early. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Thanks. You know what though, this morning was a different story. Nice pep at the same time and temp as yesterday's sluggishness. In fact, that's not the only inconsistency: The mileage suffered, falling from the high of 32.6 to around 25 on the next two tanks. I am baffled as to why. Does outside temperature affect mileage? We got the higher mileage in warmer weather. I mean the engine temp was running the same, but the outside temp was colder. Could it be elevation? Searching for solution, and hoping to get MPGs above 30 again - to make up for the price of diesel vs. gas. What's up? Brian 83 240d From: redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:43:47 -0800 Old Cold cars are not very happy until they have had a cup of coffee or two. Gump takes a few glows on colder mornings. I live a few miles from the freeway, so she has ample time to get up to temp. City driving in the AM she wants some time to wake up. consider it foreplay. Fluids are more viscous and the iron just takes a little longer to get hot enough for full combustion temps to be reached. Just my vista from a cheap old Benz On Friday, February 24, 2006, at 11:11 PM, Brian Chase wrote: Here's a topic you old timers can relate to: Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? This morning it seemed the thing was less peppy than the night before (insert your quips here). Was almost scarry trying to take off in traffic - I think it was almost floor-boarded and I barely got rolling. Things returned to somewhat normal after warming up to normal temp. And after tearing down the freeway for numerous miles, peppiness galore. There is no smoking, no signs of ill health otherwise. Brian 83 240D _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
I can tell a difference depending on how patient (or impatient) I am during the pre-glow. If I go with absolute minimum pre-glow time (in cold weather), the car is much more sluggish than it is if I am patient. On 2/25/06, Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. You know what though, this morning was a different story. Nice pep at the same time and temp as yesterday's sluggishness. -- 1977 240D 1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed 1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Brian Chase wrote: Thanks. You know what though, this morning was a different story. Nice pep at the same time and temp as yesterday's sluggishness. In fact, that's not the only inconsistency: The mileage suffered, falling from the high of 32.6 to around 25 on the next two tanks. I am baffled as to why. Does outside temperature affect mileage? We got the higher mileage in warmer weather. I mean the engine temp was running the same, but the outside temp was colder. Could it be elevation? Searching for solution, and hoping to get MPGs above 30 again - to make up for the price of diesel vs. gas. What's up? Winterized fuel (depends on HOW it's winterized) often delivers 10-20% poorer fuel economy that summer fuel. When the engine temp is lower than 85 deg C, fuel consumption WILL be higher. If the fuel filter is plugging up (either from debris, ice OR from clouded/waxed fuel), fuel consumption CAN be higher (I know - it doesn't sound logical). If you allow the engine to glow for 10-20 seconds AFTER the glow plug goes out, cold power will usually be a little less depressed when the engine is very cold. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
You know, that makes the most sense of anything I can think of. And that sucks, as it's cold most of the year around here. Although, we aren't really planning on driving the thing during the salty season. For that matter, I was going to ask the cold-climate listers what they do about deciding whether to store their klattas in the winter, or drive them, and if they store them, do they start them like once a week, or do they pull out the battery and really mothball them. Brian 83 240D From: John Berryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:24:54 -0500 On Feb 25, 2006, at 10:01 PM, Brian Chase wrote: In fact, that's not the only inconsistency: The mileage suffered, falling from the high of 32.6 to around 25 on the next two tanks. I am baffled as to why. Does outside temperature affect mileage? We got the higher mileage in warmer weather. I mean the engine temp was running the same, but the outside temp was colder. Could it be elevation? Searching for solution, and hoping to get MPGs above 30 again - to make up for the price of diesel vs. gas. What's up? Brian 83 240d You may be getting winterized fuel, you can expect to get lower mpgs with it. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
On Feb 26, 2006, at 2:30 AM, Brian Chase wrote: For that matter, I was going to ask the cold-climate listers what they do about deciding whether to store their klattas in the winter, or drive them, and if they store them, do they start them like once a week, or do they pull out the battery and really mothball them. Brian 83 240D I have so many MB diesels that every year some get driven daily or close to it, some get started periodically and some just sit there and I fire them up when the need arises. Nothing bad has ever happened to the cars left sitting. Last Summer, I fired up a car that sat three years with a half tank of fuel. The car was immediately put back in service after fully charging the battery and has not even hiccuped since. Road salt is terrible so I make my best effort to keep the most rust- free bodies away from salt, especially the solution found on wet roads around here. My least favorite sound is that of salt/sand impregnated slush being power-fed to my undercarriage. Do whatever you want to with it. Its doubtful any harm will come. A full tank of fuel may keep some condensation out which could be beneficial in that algae needs H2O to live and prosper. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
For that matter, I was going to ask the cold-climate listers what they do about deciding whether to store their klattas in the winter, or drive them, and if they store them, do they start them like once a week, or do they pull out the battery and really mothball them. I just park 'em, often with a battery tender on. Lacking a tender I'd just unhook the battery. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Brian Chase wrote: For that matter, I was going to ask the cold-climate listers what they do about deciding whether to store their klattas in the winter, or drive them, and if they store them, do they start them like once a week, or do they pull out the battery and really mothball them. I've heard that, if you store a car, it's best *not* to start it periodically unless you're going to drive it far enough to get it up to operating temperature. Just starting it and letting it idle for a while, but not driving it hard enough to heat the oil up, tends to lead to a lot of water building up in the oil.
[MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Here's a topic you old timers can relate to: Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? This morning it seemed the thing was less peppy than the night before (insert your quips here). Was almost scarry trying to take off in traffic - I think it was almost floor-boarded and I barely got rolling. Things returned to somewhat normal after warming up to normal temp. And after tearing down the freeway for numerous miles, peppiness galore. There is no smoking, no signs of ill health otherwise. Brian 83 240D _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? Yes. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
On Feb 25, 2006, at 2:11 AM, Brian Chase wrote: Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? This morning it seemed the thing was less peppy than the night before (insert your quips here). Was almost scarry trying to take off in traffic - I think it was almost floor-boarded and I barely got rolling. Things returned to somewhat normal after warming up to normal temp. And after tearing down the freeway for numerous miles, peppiness galore. There is no smoking, no signs of ill health otherwise. Brian 83 240D Perfectly normal. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Brian Chase wrote: Here's a topic you old timers can relate to: Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? This morning it seemed the thing was less peppy than the night before (insert your quips here). Was almost scarry trying to take off in traffic - I think it was almost floor-boarded and I barely got rolling. Things returned to somewhat normal after warming up to normal temp. And after tearing down the freeway for numerous miles, peppiness galore. There is no smoking, no signs of ill health otherwise. When the engine is cold, power IS down for a variety of reasons and fuel consumption WILL be high. The fuel does not finish burning quickly enough to contribute optimally to developing power. If the one or more valves are tight, that will make this MUCH worse (when was valve adjustment checked?). As the engine warms, the valve tightness (and the resulting lower compression) disappears. Chain stretch will contribute to this lowered power as well but is not usually the major factor. When were the fuel and air filters changed? Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] Morning sluggishness
Old Cold cars are not very happy until they have had a cup of coffee or two. Gump takes a few glows on colder mornings. I live a few miles from the freeway, so she has ample time to get up to temp. City driving in the AM she wants some time to wake up. consider it foreplay. Fluids are more viscous and the iron just takes a little longer to get hot enough for full combustion temps to be reached. Just my vista from a cheap old Benz On Friday, February 24, 2006, at 11:11 PM, Brian Chase wrote: Here's a topic you old timers can relate to: Is it common for these diesels to be sluggish when cold? This morning it seemed the thing was less peppy than the night before (insert your quips here). Was almost scarry trying to take off in traffic - I think it was almost floor-boarded and I barely got rolling. Things returned to somewhat normal after warming up to normal temp. And after tearing down the freeway for numerous miles, peppiness galore. There is no smoking, no signs of ill health otherwise. Brian 83 240D _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
