Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Amazing stories - great living history.  Thanks to all for sharing.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There were POW camps on Lake of the Woods south of Kenora during the war
> too. I am told that they even gave the prisoners guns and let them go
> hunting. No worries I guess as these guys had it made in the shade. No way
> they wanted to escape and go back to the war. They spent the rest of the
> war being treated pretty well.
> There was, until only a few years ago, one of the former prisoners who
> owned a cottage in the area and came back every summer from Germany.
>
> RB
>
>
>
> On 16/01/2018 4:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>
>>   Same is true for Houlton, Maine. Even today its pretty remote, this is
>> where RT95 starts (or stops I suppose) as it turns into Canada. The info I
>> found says they were housed in Houlton, I'm curious how they got to
>> Caribou, its an hour drive now...There was an Air Force (then Army Air
>> Corps) base in Presque Isle, maybe they had some stationed there? I
>> dunno...My grandmother wasn't actually around during the time of the story,
>> my dad lived with his maternal grandmother and uncle (great grandfather
>> died in '33) until my grandfather came back from the war in '45 or '46.
>>
>> -Curt
>>
>>  On Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 5:28:03 PM EST, Dan Penoff via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>> The Army didn’t consider the POWs to be dangerous, nor were they worried
>> about them escaping.  Camp Atterbury was, and still is, in a very, very
>> rural area.  You could easily get lost in that place and never be found.
>>
>> -D
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>>
>>> Family lore states that there were POWs on the farm. My dad was born in
>>> '43 and apparently one of the POWs asked where his father was to which he
>>> replied "Over in Germany killin Germans!"
>>>
>>> Grandmother talks of bringing lunch out and accidentally driving away
>>> with the guard's gun in the car.
>>>
>>> -Curt
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

There were POW camps on Lake of the Woods south of Kenora during the war 
too. I am told that they even gave the prisoners guns and let them go 
hunting. No worries I guess as these guys had it made in the shade. No 
way they wanted to escape and go back to the war. They spent the rest of 
the war being treated pretty well.
There was, until only a few years ago, one of the former prisoners who 
owned a cottage in the area and came back every summer from Germany.


RB


On 16/01/2018 4:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

  Same is true for Houlton, Maine. Even today its pretty remote, this is where 
RT95 starts (or stops I suppose) as it turns into Canada. The info I found says 
they were housed in Houlton, I'm curious how they got to Caribou, its an hour 
drive now...There was an Air Force (then Army Air Corps) base in Presque Isle, 
maybe they had some stationed there? I dunno...My grandmother wasn't actually 
around during the time of the story, my dad lived with his maternal grandmother 
and uncle (great grandfather died in '33) until my grandfather came back from 
the war in '45 or '46.

-Curt

 On Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 5:28:03 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
The Army didn’t consider the POWs to be dangerous, nor were they worried about 
them escaping.  Camp Atterbury was, and still is, in a very, very rural area.  
You could easily get lost in that place and never be found.

-D



On Jan 16, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

Family lore states that there were POWs on the farm. My dad was born in '43 and 
apparently one of the POWs asked where his father was to which he replied "Over in 
Germany killin Germans!"

Grandmother talks of bringing lunch out and accidentally driving away with the 
guard's gun in the car.

-Curt



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Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Same is true for Houlton, Maine. Even today its pretty remote, this is where 
RT95 starts (or stops I suppose) as it turns into Canada. The info I found says 
they were housed in Houlton, I'm curious how they got to Caribou, its an hour 
drive now...There was an Air Force (then Army Air Corps) base in Presque Isle, 
maybe they had some stationed there? I dunno...My grandmother wasn't actually 
around during the time of the story, my dad lived with his maternal grandmother 
and uncle (great grandfather died in '33) until my grandfather came back from 
the war in '45 or '46.

-Curt

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 5:28:03 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote: 
The Army didn’t consider the POWs to be dangerous, nor were they worried about 
them escaping.  Camp Atterbury was, and still is, in a very, very rural area.  
You could easily get lost in that place and never be found.

-D


> On Jan 16, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Family lore states that there were POWs on the farm. My dad was born in '43 
> and apparently one of the POWs asked where his father was to which he replied 
> "Over in Germany killin Germans!"
> 
> Grandmother talks of bringing lunch out and accidentally driving away with 
> the guard's gun in the car.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I worked for a lot of the local farmers when I was growing up, many of whom 
were second and third generation German immigrants.  They had nothing but good 
things to say about the POWs, as I suspect they knew the POWs weren’t 
goose-stepping had core Nazis, just guys that were more or less conscripted by 
the political and social pressures of the times.

A number of the farmers would tell stories about these guys, like when they 
first came into the area with the Army.  None of them knew that the locals were 
former fellow Germans, so when they got out on the farm or in the greenhouses, 
the farmers and their families would start talking in German around them and 
they would freak out (in a good way.)

Once they discovered they were surrounded by Germans they loosened up and 
assimilated pretty quickly.  I was told they were hard workers and got along 
well with everyone they came into contact with.

Father in law was freaky about the whole thing. He was a hard core “man’s man”, 
all tough and John Wayne like.  Apparently he thought he was a pussy for 
hanging around home and guarding POWs Stateside as opposed to being on the 
front lines and killing Nazis.  The few times he did talk to me about it I 
discovered that he wasn’t even issued a rifle or sidearm for his assignment.  
The Army didn’t consider the POWs to be dangerous, nor were they worried about 
them escaping.  Camp Atterbury was, and still is, in a very, very rural area.  
You could easily get lost in that place and never be found.

-D


> On Jan 16, 2018, at 5:11 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Family lore states that there were POWs on the farm. My dad was born in '43 
> and apparently one of the POWs asked where his father was to which he replied 
> "Over in Germany killin Germans!"
> 
> Grandmother talks of bringing lunch out and accidentally driving away with 
> the guard's gun in the car.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Family lore states that there were POWs on the farm. My dad was born in '43 and 
apparently one of the POWs asked where his father was to which he replied "Over 
in Germany killin Germans!"
Grandmother talks of bringing lunch out and accidentally driving away with the 
guard's gun in the car.

-Curt
 

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 3:17:35 PM EST, Dan--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 My father in law was a guard at Camp Atterbury’s POW camp during WWII:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2017/03/01/italian-pow-camp-experience-added-indiana-historical-society-exhibit-camp-atterbury/98348516/

He was always embarrassed about it, as if serving at home was less than serving 
overseas in a war zone, so he rarely spoke about it.

The POWs went on work details for the local farming communities, and were 
treated well. I didn’t read the article, but I do know from other accounts that 
they were often allowed into the homes of local residents for social occasions 
and were well received.  A local farmer I knew said some of them were really 
upset when the war ended and they were being repatriated - they wanted to stay!

-D

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 2:28 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> No mention of camps in NC but maybe the guys you knew were from here?
> 
> --FT
> 
> http://www.oldonesdream.com/my-blog/2013/05/german-prisoners-of-war-in-south-carolina.html
> 
> 
>  05/16/2013
> 
> 
>    German Prisoners of War in South Carolina
> 
> Thomas and I were parked on the shoulder of a county road watching a group of 
> cheerful and energetic young men working in a field - I think they were 
> gathering and stacking loose hay. There was a large tree in the middle of the 
> field and when they took a break some were throwing boards up into the tree 
> knocking down fruit or nuts, probably pecans. It was 1944 or 1945 and the 
> young men were German prisoners of war.
> 
> The story of German prisoners of war in the United States 
>  
> and in South Carolina is fairly well documented on the internet. When 
> American forces landed in North Africa in November 1942 the German Afrika 
> Korps found itself in a vise between the Americans on the West and the 
> British attacking from the East out of Egypt. The Afrika Corps did not 
> receive adequate support from Berlin and surrendered in May 1943. The Allies 
> found themselves with 275,000 German and Italian prisoners. Feeding and 
> housing these prisoners in Africa was a rather large logistics burden at the 
> end of an already overloaded long supply line. It was decided to transport 
> the prisoners back to the U. S. in Liberty Ships that would have been 
> otherwise returning empty. These ships were at great risk of being sunk by 
> German submarines and perhaps the general knowledge that they carried German 
> prisoners gave them safe passage. The value of the work performed by these 
> men on the farms was invaluable because of the obvious shortage of male 
> laborers during the war. Those farm laborers who were not in the armed forces 
> could make much higher wages working in the industrial war effort at the 
> "Navy Yard" in Charleston and elsewhere. The stories of how well the 
> prisoners were treated in the camps and whether they were happy to be 
> prisoners in America rather then in Russia are various and subject to 
> interpretation, and include an account of prisoners at a camp in Aiken 
> "executing" one of their own in apparent punishment for fraternization. The 
> No mention of camps in NC but maybe the guys you knew were from here?
> 
> --FT
> 
> http://www.oldonesdream.com/my-blog/2013/05/german-prisoners-of-war-in-south-carolina.html
> 
> 
>  05/16/2013
> 
> 
>    German Prisoners of War in South Carolina
> 
> Thomas and I were parked on the shoulder of a county road watching a group of 
> cheerful and energetic young men working in a field - I think they were 
> gathering and stacking loose hay. There was a large tree in the middle of the 
> field and when they took a break some were throwing boards up into the tree 
> knocking down fruit or nuts, probably pecans. It was 1944 or 1945 and the 
> young men were German prisoners of war.
> 
> The story of German prisoners of war in the United States 
>  
> and in South Carolina is fairly well documented on the internet. When 
> American forces landed in North Africa in November 1942 the German Afrika 
> Korps found itself in a vise between the Americans on the West and the 
> British attacking from the East out of Egypt. The Afrika Corps did not 
> receive adequate support from Berlin and surrendered in May 1943. The Allies 
> found themselves with 275,000 German and Italian prisoners. Feeding and 
> housing these prisoners in Africa was a rather large logistics burden at the 
> end 

Re: [MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

My father in law was a guard at Camp Atterbury’s POW camp during WWII:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2017/03/01/italian-pow-camp-experience-added-indiana-historical-society-exhibit-camp-atterbury/98348516/

He was always embarrassed about it, as if serving at home was less than serving 
overseas in a war zone, so he rarely spoke about it.

The POWs went on work details for the local farming communities, and were 
treated well. I didn’t read the article, but I do know from other accounts that 
they were often allowed into the homes of local residents for social occasions 
and were well received.  A local farmer I knew said some of them were really 
upset when the war ended and they were being repatriated - they wanted to stay!

-D

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 2:28 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> No mention of camps in NC but maybe the guys you knew were from here?
> 
> --FT
> 
> http://www.oldonesdream.com/my-blog/2013/05/german-prisoners-of-war-in-south-carolina.html
> 
> 
>   05/16/2013
> 
> 
> German Prisoners of War in South Carolina
> 
> Thomas and I were parked on the shoulder of a county road watching a group of 
> cheerful and energetic young men working in a field - I think they were 
> gathering and stacking loose hay. There was a large tree in the middle of the 
> field and when they took a break some were throwing boards up into the tree 
> knocking down fruit or nuts, probably pecans. It was 1944 or 1945 and the 
> young men were German prisoners of war.
> 
> The story of German prisoners of war in the United States 
>  
> and in South Carolina is fairly well documented on the internet. When 
> American forces landed in North Africa in November 1942 the German Afrika 
> Korps found itself in a vise between the Americans on the West and the 
> British attacking from the East out of Egypt. The Afrika Corps did not 
> receive adequate support from Berlin and surrendered in May 1943. The Allies 
> found themselves with 275,000 German and Italian prisoners. Feeding and 
> housing these prisoners in Africa was a rather large logistics burden at the 
> end of an already overloaded long supply line. It was decided to transport 
> the prisoners back to the U. S. in Liberty Ships that would have been 
> otherwise returning empty. These ships were at great risk of being sunk by 
> German submarines and perhaps the general knowledge that they carried German 
> prisoners gave them safe passage. The value of the work performed by these 
> men on the farms was invaluable because of the obvious shortage of male 
> laborers during the war. Those farm laborers who were not in the armed forces 
> could make much higher wages working in the industrial war effort at the 
> "Navy Yard" in Charleston and elsewhere. The stories of how well the 
> prisoners were treated in the camps and whether they were happy to be 
> prisoners in America rather then in Russia are various and subject to 
> interpretation, and include an account of prisoners at a camp in Aiken 
> "executing" one of their own in apparent punishment for fraternization. The 
> No mention of camps in NC but maybe the guys you knew were from here?
> 
> --FT
> 
> http://www.oldonesdream.com/my-blog/2013/05/german-prisoners-of-war-in-south-carolina.html
> 
> 
>   05/16/2013
> 
> 
> German Prisoners of War in South Carolina
> 
> Thomas and I were parked on the shoulder of a county road watching a group of 
> cheerful and energetic young men working in a field - I think they were 
> gathering and stacking loose hay. There was a large tree in the middle of the 
> field and when they took a break some were throwing boards up into the tree 
> knocking down fruit or nuts, probably pecans. It was 1944 or 1945 and the 
> young men were German prisoners of war.
> 
> The story of German prisoners of war in the United States 
>  
> and in South Carolina is fairly well documented on the internet. When 
> American forces landed in North Africa in November 1942 the German Afrika 
> Korps found itself in a vise between the Americans on the West and the 
> British attacking from the East out of Egypt. The Afrika Corps did not 
> receive adequate support from Berlin and surrendered in May 1943. The Allies 
> found themselves with 275,000 German and Italian prisoners. Feeding and 
> housing these prisoners in Africa was a rather large logistics burden at the 
> end of an already overloaded long supply line. It was decided to transport 
> the prisoners back to the U. S. in Liberty Ships that would have been 
> otherwise returning empty. These ships were at great risk of being sunk by 
> German submarines and perhaps the general knowledge that they carried German 
> prisoners gave them safe passage. The value of the work performed by these 
> men on the farms was 

[MBZ] OT FOR WILTON -- German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

No mention of camps in NC but maybe the guys you knew were from here?

--FT

http://www.oldonesdream.com/my-blog/2013/05/german-prisoners-of-war-in-south-carolina.html


   05/16/2013


 German Prisoners of War in South Carolina

Thomas and I were parked on the shoulder of a county road watching a 
group of cheerful and energetic young men working in a field - I think 
they were gathering and stacking loose hay. There was a large tree in 
the middle of the field and when they took a break some were throwing 
boards up into the tree knocking down fruit or nuts, probably pecans. It 
was 1944 or 1945 and the young men were German prisoners of war.


The story of German prisoners of war in the United States 
 and 
in South Carolina is fairly well documented on the internet. When 
American forces landed in North Africa in November 1942 the German 
Afrika Korps found itself in a vise between the Americans on the West 
and the British attacking from the East out of Egypt. The Afrika Corps 
did not receive adequate support from Berlin and surrendered in May 
1943. The Allies found themselves with 275,000 German and Italian 
prisoners. Feeding and housing these prisoners in Africa was a rather 
large logistics burden at the end of an already overloaded long supply 
line. It was decided to transport the prisoners back to the U. S. in 
Liberty Ships that would have been otherwise returning empty. These 
ships were at great risk of being sunk by German submarines and perhaps 
the general knowledge that they carried German prisoners gave them safe 
passage. The value of the work performed by these men on the farms was 
invaluable because of the obvious shortage of male laborers during the 
war. Those farm laborers who were not in the armed forces could make 
much higher wages working in the industrial war effort at the "Navy 
Yard" in Charleston and elsewhere. The stories of how well the prisoners 
were treated in the camps and whether they were happy to be prisoners in 
America rather then in Russia are various and subject to interpretation, 
and include an account of prisoners at a camp in Aiken "executing" one 
of their own in apparent punishment for fraternization. The perpetrators 
were reportedly convicted and hung at Fort Leavenworth.


There are conflicting statistics as to the number of German prisoners of 
war held in South Carolina but the estimates range from 8000 to 11000. 
An incomplete list of camps 
 in 
the U. S. lists only Camp Croft and Camp Jackson in S. C. Although the 
camps were located in almost every state, they were concentrated in the 
south because the climate was advantageous to the year round housing 
requirements. A document from the South Carolina Museums 
 provides 
the following list.


   There were twenty-one camps in the state of South Carolina alone:Aiken, 
Aiken County--Barnwell, Barnwell County--Bennettsville, Marlboro
   County--Camden, Kershaw County--Charleston, Charleston County--Charleston 
Army
   Air Base, Charleston County--Charleston Port of Embarkation, Charleston
   County--Columbia Army Air Base, Richland County—Coronaca Army Airfield,
   Greenwood, Greenwood County—Croft, near Spartanburg, Spartanburg
   County--Florence Army Air Base, Florence, Florence County, now Florence
   Regional Airport-- Hampton, Hampton County, --Holly Hill, Orangeburg
   County--Jackson, Columbia, Richland County--Myrtle Beach Army Air Base, Horry
   County, now Myrtle Beach Air Force Base—Norway, Orangeburg County—Shaw Field,
   near Oakland, Sumter County—Walterboro Army Air Base, Walterboro, Colleton
   County—Whitmire, Newberry County--Witherbee, Berkeley County—York, York 
County

Missing from this list is the camp at Bamberg which I first heard of 
recently from someone who grew up in Bamberg and remembers that the camp 
was on the east side of town south of the railroad. The Bamberg Camp is 
documented in the 1994 Fritz Hamer paper 
 
published on the University of South Carolina Scholar Commons site.


   In September 1943, when 250 German POWs were brought to a temporary
   camp in Bamberg County, the county agricultural extension agent
   wrote: "... there was almost a steady flow of traffic by the camp.
   People from miles around came to see what