Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Aww geez, I was trying to make a funny.
Say "weird music and sinful dancing" in a funny voice, that's what I was 
thinking when I wrote it...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 5:27 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:   
On 15/12/2016 3:45 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> What's wrong with 10.11? I've been using it for months and other than an 
> incompatibility with the version of Media Composer I had its been just as 
> good as 10.8 on my early 2013 MacBook Pro...
> Your "everything was better in the old days" arguments are as old as the 
> hills. Do you want to complain about the weird music and sinful dancing too?
>
> Curt
>

Having a bad day Curt?

RB
  
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 15/12/2016 3:45 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

What's wrong with 10.11? I've been using it for months and other than an 
incompatibility with the version of Media Composer I had its been just as good 
as 10.8 on my early 2013 MacBook Pro...
Your "everything was better in the old days" arguments are as old as the hills. 
Do you want to complain about the weird music and sinful dancing too?

Curt



Having a bad day Curt?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

What's wrong with 10.11? I've been using it for months and other than an 
incompatibility with the version of Media Composer I had its been just as good 
as 10.8 on my early 2013 MacBook Pro...
Your "everything was better in the old days" arguments are as old as the hills. 
Do you want to complain about the weird music and sinful dancing too?

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 7:57 PM, Curley McLain via 
Mercedes wrote:   OS 10.11  and winders 10 SUCK worse 
than 10.6 and XP.    XP with the 
"classic" interface was the peak of M$ os, and I have little experience 
with OS 10 other than 10.6 and 10.11, but 10.6 is the peak of Apfel Mac 
OS in my experience.  I know prior versions had shortcomings, and later 
had nothing inspiring.  El crap is much worse than 10.6.  Winders 
Wisss-ta was a disaster, 7 offered no improvement, 8 was a disaster, and 
10 offers no improvement, only that it has not yet been forced into 
obsolescence.

The steve-less apfel has crossed over to the dark side I am afraid!

> Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
> December 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM
> Until and unless someone comes up with non-silicon wafer based 
> semiconductor based transistors, we are at the end of the road.  No 
> more speed, no more cores, just about the only thing that will change 
> is the details of the designs and software.
>
> Apple is doing the one thing I've always disliked, forcing you to keep 
> spending money for new stuff that's not all that different than the 
> old stuff, particularly today where the processors aren't different 
> enough to tell apart, they just change the software enough to keep you 
> shelling out cash.
>
> Other processors are better than Intel "cpu" chips anyway -- no one is 
> using them in smart phones, which are vastly more powerful that a 
> desktop was a few years ago.  End of the road stuff, I think.
>
> I don't anticipate any major changes in the next decade -- once you 
> reach the physical limits of size in computing devices, you cannot 
> improve speed or transistor density.
>
> Needless to say, the software stinks just as much as it always did
>
> Peter
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
> Curley McLain 
> December 13, 2016 at 11:06 PM
> A while ago I was looking at new macbooks to replace an original 
> Macbook 1,1 and I was shocked to see there is virtually no improvement 
> in processors in the past 5 years.  Core i5 and core i7.  More 
> recently, I was looking idly at windoze laptops and see that not only 
> are they still selling core 2 duo, but also Pentium processors are 
> still on the new market.
>
> At the same time, apfel has forced obsolescence of all core2, core 2 
> duo, and recently announced forced obsolescence of core i5 and i7 
> computers made in 2011.
>
> I no longer keep up with all the developments, but it seems to me that 
> the roles have reversed, and rather than having 20 yr old macs working 
> and a 2 or 3 yr old windoze boz won't run the new windoze; now we have 
> 10 or 15 yr old windoze boxes running and 5 yr old macs dead.
>
> Its enough to make someone turn to penguins.
>
> What wisdom/comments to y'all have about the current state of computing?
>
> To me is seems stupid to obsolete macs that are far better than many 
> of the winders machines being sold now.
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

A series of bad experiences with various flavors.  Difficulty finding 
software to do what I need.


As Jim said, the only problem isa web browser on mac.  For winders, 
security and browsers are still the problems.  orifice and email works 
on old versions of each.



fmiser via Mercedes 
December 15, 2016 at 1:59 AM

Curley wrote:



OS 10.11  and winders 10 SUCK worse than 10.6 and XP.



 El crap is much worse than 10.6.



Winders Wisss-ta was a disaster, 7 offered no improvement, 8 was
a disaster, and 10 offers no improvement


And so what is keeping you from abandoning the bunch and using
*nix?
Linux is pretty friendly now, and is easy to setup for "light"
hardware.  BSD too, but I have little experience with it.

Run old software on old hardware if you want.  It works.  And once
working I find it just keeps on working.  Unlike my experiences
with MS and Apple that need constant fiddling to keep them
running.  I will admit, I largely abandoned them both decades ago
so (happily!!) my experience is now woefully out of date.
For those situations where I have no choice (commercial hardware
control programs available in MS Win only) I keep MS in a
VirtualBox guest and run it only when I must.



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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Curley wrote:



OS 10.11  and winders 10 SUCK worse than 10.6 and XP.



 El crap is much worse than 10.6.



Winders Wisss-ta was a disaster, 7 offered no improvement, 8 was
a disaster, and 10 offers no improvement


And so what is keeping you from abandoning the bunch and using
*nix?
Linux is pretty friendly now, and is easy to setup for "light"
hardware.  BSD too, but I have little experience with it.

Run old software on old hardware if you want.  It works.  And once
working I find it just keeps on working.  Unlike my experiences
with MS and Apple that need constant fiddling to keep them
running.  I will admit, I largely abandoned them both decades ago
so (happily!!) my experience is now woefully out of date.
For those situations where I have no choice (commercial hardware
control programs available in MS Win only) I keep MS in a
VirtualBox guest and run it only when I must.

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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Were it not for the browser problem, I'd still be using my Pismo running
10.3.9!  These MacPro 1,1 machines would be very nice on 10.6, I'd use that
happily.  But for the browsers.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

OS 10.11  and winders 10 SUCK worse than 10.6 and XP.XP with the 
"classic" interface was the peak of M$ os, and I have little experience 
with OS 10 other than 10.6 and 10.11, but 10.6 is the peak of Apfel Mac 
OS in my experience.  I know prior versions had shortcomings, and later 
had nothing inspiring.  El crap is much worse than 10.6.  Winders 
Wisss-ta was a disaster, 7 offered no improvement, 8 was a disaster, and 
10 offers no improvement, only that it has not yet been forced into 
obsolescence.


The steve-less apfel has crossed over to the dark side I am afraid!


Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
December 14, 2016 at 6:08 PM
Until and unless someone comes up with non-silicon wafer based 
semiconductor based transistors, we are at the end of the road.  No 
more speed, no more cores, just about the only thing that will change 
is the details of the designs and software.


Apple is doing the one thing I've always disliked, forcing you to keep 
spending money for new stuff that's not all that different than the 
old stuff, particularly today where the processors aren't different 
enough to tell apart, they just change the software enough to keep you 
shelling out cash.


Other processors are better than Intel "cpu" chips anyway -- no one is 
using them in smart phones, which are vastly more powerful that a 
desktop was a few years ago.  End of the road stuff, I think.


I don't anticipate any major changes in the next decade -- once you 
reach the physical limits of size in computing devices, you cannot 
improve speed or transistor density.


Needless to say, the software stinks just as much as it always did

Peter

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Curley McLain 
December 13, 2016 at 11:06 PM
A while ago I was looking at new macbooks to replace an original 
Macbook 1,1 and I was shocked to see there is virtually no improvement 
in processors in the past 5 years.  Core i5 and core i7.  More 
recently, I was looking idly at windoze laptops and see that not only 
are they still selling core 2 duo, but also Pentium processors are 
still on the new market.


At the same time, apfel has forced obsolescence of all core2, core 2 
duo, and recently announced forced obsolescence of core i5 and i7 
computers made in 2011.


I no longer keep up with all the developments, but it seems to me that 
the roles have reversed, and rather than having 20 yr old macs working 
and a 2 or 3 yr old windoze boz won't run the new windoze; now we have 
10 or 15 yr old windoze boxes running and 5 yr old macs dead.


Its enough to make someone turn to penguins.

What wisdom/comments to y'all have about the current state of computing?

To me is seems stupid to obsolete macs that are far better than many 
of the winders machines being sold now.





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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Until and unless someone comes up with non-silicon wafer based  
semiconductor based transistors, we are at the end of the road.  No  
more speed, no more cores, just about the only thing that will change  
is the details of the designs and software.


Apple is doing the one thing I've always disliked, forcing you to keep  
spending money for new stuff that's not all that different than the  
old stuff, particularly today where the processors aren't different  
enough to tell apart, they just change the software enough to keep you  
shelling out cash.


Other processors are better than Intel "cpu" chips anyway -- no one is  
using them in smart phones, which are vastly more powerful that a  
desktop was a few years ago.  End of the road stuff, I think.


I don't anticipate any major changes in the next decade -- once you  
reach the physical limits of size in computing devices, you cannot  
improve speed or transistor density.


Needless to say, the software stinks just as much as it always did

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

That doesn't bother me, as sagging sales will determine if they need to 
put the magsafe and/or earphone jacks back on or not.  (BTW, I agree 
with you; they are worse than the old products)



What burns me is that in 5 yrs you will HAVE to do with out them because 
they will turn your computer with them OFF.  (or force you to visit the 
penguin...)


I had that happen with 2 hard drives I bought in 2001.  After 10 years, 
(seldom used) they both bricked.  No warning, no chance to get stuff 
off.   Just a brick because the software was written to do that.



Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
December 14, 2016 at 4:32 PM
Look at the new phone with no headphone port. That's a poor decision. 
The new laptop doesn't have a magsafe power supply either. The new 
Apple hardware is all worse than that which it replaces.

Curt


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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Look at the new phone with no headphone port. That's a poor decision. The new 
laptop doesn't have a magsafe power supply either. The new Apple hardware is 
all worse than that which it replaces.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Meade Dillon via 
Mercedes wrote:   RIP Jobs?  I wonder if he would have 
tolerated this.  Really sounds like
the bean counters have won control over the engineers.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> The patches work, for now, but once they've finished making the
> compilers/toolkits _depend_ on the whackadoodle instructions that only the
> newer Intel processors have you'll be truly screwed.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

RIP Jobs?  I wonder if he would have tolerated this.  Really sounds like
the bean counters have won control over the engineers.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> The patches work, for now, but once they've finished making the
> compilers/toolkits _depend_ on the whackadoodle instructions that only the
> newer Intel processors have you'll be truly screwed.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

We're running two Mac Pro 1,1 machines using El Capitan.  Some work was
required, primarily getting a couple of 4870 video cards for them.  Also,
the patch gave them both the same ID that Time Machine uses as a key, so
only one of them could be backed up.  (I have a patched EFI patch for the
second one, mine, so I could now get backups there too.)

Apple's doing it on purpose by now, to drive hardware sales.  They must
have noticed that their machines had a service life that was 'too long',
you cheap bastard customers, and have arranged to drive you to the store
for new.  They're now on an annual release cycle for system software.

The patches work, for now, but once they've finished making the
compilers/toolkits _depend_ on the whackadoodle instructions that only the
newer Intel processors have you'll be truly screwed.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

If it's any consolation, there is a large community of Mac users who have 
successfully circumvented the issues with EFI BIOS on older models (CD, C2D) 
and are running current operating systems successfully.

I know I've done it, and it was easy and simple to do. It extended the life of 
my Mac Pro 1,1 significantly.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 14, 2016, at 12:06 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> A while ago I was looking at new macbooks to replace an original Macbook 1,1 
> and I was shocked to see there is virtually no improvement in processors in 
> the past 5 years.  Core i5 and core i7.  More recently, I was looking idly at 
> windoze laptops and see that not only are they still selling core 2 duo, but 
> also Pentium processors are still on the new market.
> 
> At the same time, apfel has forced obsolescence of all core2, core 2 duo, and 
> recently announced forced obsolescence of core i5 and i7 computers made in 
> 2011.
> 
> I no longer keep up with all the developments, but it seems to me that the 
> roles have reversed, and rather than having 20 yr old macs working and a 2 or 
> 3 yr old windoze boz won't run the new windoze; now we have 10 or 15 yr old 
> windoze boxes running and 5 yr old macs dead.
> 
> Its enough to make someone turn to penguins.
> 
> What wisdom/comments to y'all have about the current state of computing?
> 
> To me is seems stupid to obsolete macs that are far better than many of the 
> winders machines being sold now.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> it seems to me that the roles have reversed, and rather than having 20 yr
> old macs working and a 2 or 3 yr old windoze boz won't run the new windoze;
> now we have 10 or 15 yr old windoze boxes running and 5 yr old macs dead.


Sure seems that way.  It's pretty infuriating.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>‎Its enough to make someone turn to >penguins.

>+1

Rick 
Sent from an outdated smartphone with more computing power than the original 
space shuttle‎
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[MBZ] Sorta OT: new Computers

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

A while ago I was looking at new macbooks to replace an original Macbook 
1,1 and I was shocked to see there is virtually no improvement in 
processors in the past 5 years.  Core i5 and core i7.  More recently, I 
was looking idly at windoze laptops and see that not only are they still 
selling core 2 duo, but also Pentium processors are still on the new market.


At the same time, apfel has forced obsolescence of all core2, core 2 
duo, and recently announced forced obsolescence of core i5 and i7 
computers made in 2011.


I no longer keep up with all the developments, but it seems to me that 
the roles have reversed, and rather than having 20 yr old macs working 
and a 2 or 3 yr old windoze boz won't run the new windoze; now we have 
10 or 15 yr old windoze boxes running and 5 yr old macs dead.


Its enough to make someone turn to penguins.

What wisdom/comments to y'all have about the current state of computing?

To me is seems stupid to obsolete macs that are far better than many of 
the winders machines being sold now.




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