Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Curt Raymond]

How flat is the battery in it? How long did you leave the booster cables hooked 
up before you tried to start the car?
  When I'm boosting my 240D I leave the cables connected for at least 5 
minutes. If the battery is down enough that I need to boost it its going to 
take some time to get back up to where it'll start the car.
  I have very good, heavy booster cables by the way, cheap ones will get really 
hot when you're slamming power through them to a flat battery. You can really 
heat 'em up boosting a 6v tractor off a 12v pickup, not too bad if you're quick 
but my Great uncle had some cheapie cables for awhile and ended up burning the 
end off one.
   
  You can't start the car purely off the booster cables, your cables don't make 
a good enough connection, you need to let the battery in the car pick up some 
charge before you try to start.
   
  -Curt
  '83 240D "Hammie" 251kmi
  '85 190D "Dory" 233kmi
   
  Date: 16 Jan 2006 20:25:21 -
From: "Alan Duff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question
To: Mercedes Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it 
using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very 
slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to 
the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the 
electrical 
system?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN



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Subject: [MBZ] euro 5.0 throttle position sensor and other questions
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OK, slowing working out the little bugs with the euro 5.0 in the US 380. 
   I figured out this thing has a throttle position sensor which is 
located under the air meter deal, fuel distributor etc right on the side 
of the throttle body.  The euro engine has a wire with a flat 2 lead 
connector, the US car and another US car I have here has a round 3 lead 
connector for the sensor.  I have a high idle of 900-1K rpm and am 
assuming this is probably the cause.  I also seem to have a very slight 
surge when maintaining the same speed going down the road which also 
leads to this.  Anyways, Im assuming Im going to have to swap the 
sensors.  Any way of doing this short of removing the whole injection 
system?

Thinking about taking the whole thing off anyways and putting the US 
version back on.  On the US version there is a wire that is supposed to 
hook up to some sort of valve just to the left of the fuel dist.  There 
is a small fuel line that comes out of the fuel dist that goes to this 
valve with the electrical connection, then if goes back out of this 
valve and around to another valve on the back of the fuel dist that has 
a vacuum connection on it.  From there I think it goes to the warm up 
regulator but cant remember off hand. The euro motor does not have this 
setup with that valve and therefor the wire is not hooked to anything 
for it.  Anybody know what this is for and what it causes when not 
hooked up?  Think I should put the US stuff on the euro motor or just 
swap the throttle sensor and leave it at that?  With the US injection 
parts on the euro motor, will it decrease the power?  Im sure nobody 
will know much about this since this is sort of new territory but 
thought I would ask.
-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
  84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
  76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[BillR]

I always use at least two sets of cables if they are not very heavy duty.
That seems to work.
BillR 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:09 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

Alan Duff wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it 
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very 
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot 
> to the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the 
> electrical system?

I think it's a problem in the jumper cables. 4ga cables don't get hot, 10ga
cables get hot and have enough voltage drop to prevent them from starting a
car. 6ga and 8ga cables are iffy.

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Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Potter, Tom E]

This is the only type I use. Anything less is a waste of money IMHO.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave M.
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

Alan,

...The best deal I know of is at AutoZone. They have a nice set of
2-gauge, 20-foot cables, made in USA, with beefy clamps for $39. I
looked all over and that's the best deal I could find for seriously
heavy-duty cables.

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[R A Bennell]

Also make sure you have a good ground attachment. I boosted my wife's car
with my pickup a couple of weeks ago and initially it did not want to go. I
moved the ground clamp on the pickup to a different spot and it cranked fine
and went right away.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave M.
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question


Alan,

In my experience, jump-starting a diesel - whether it's a little VW
diesel, or an MB diesel - is very different than your typical gas
engine. To make a long story somewhat shorter, I finally learned that
6 gauge, or even 4 gauge, booster cables are nearly useless. 2 gauge
is barely adequate, but it's hard to find anything larger unless you
make them yourself from welding cable. The smaller cables make the
engine turn over very slowly. Bigger cables, or doubling-up two
pairs of smaller ones, made a HUGE difference even on my little VW
diesel 4-banger.

The best deal I know of is at AutoZone. They have a nice set of
2-gauge, 20-foot cables, made in USA, with beefy clamps for $39. I
looked all over and that's the best deal I could find for seriously
heavy-duty cables.

While your 300SD *could* have some other electrical issues, my money
is on the booster cables you were using. Try bigger ones, or simply
get the battery fully charged - that will eliminate that possibility
quickly. If a fully-charged Group 49 battery is having trouble
spinning the engine, you either have wiring problems, or a starter
going out.

:-)

-Dave M.

> --
> Date: 16 Jan 2006 20:25:21 -
> From: "Alan Duff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question
>
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
> the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the electrical
> system?
>
> Alan Duff
> Knoxville, TN

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Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[John Berryman]

On Monday, Jan 16, 2006, at 15:25 US/Eastern, Alan Duff wrote:


I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the 
electrical

system?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN



It takes serious jumper cables to start a diesel. I make mine from 
welding cable. Jumping from a running vehicle helps too.


Johnny B
I Mac Therefore I am

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Jim Cathey]

I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the 
electrical

system?


It's a bad battery combined with too-wimpy jumper cables.  I was
unable to jump-start our SDL when its battery went dead, for this
very reason.  If the cables don't look like welding cable there's
no way they will jump-start any diesel, except maybe a new TDI
or something.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Luther Gulseth]

Ought cables RULE!

- Original Message 
From: Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:09:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question


Alan Duff wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
> the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the electrical
> system?

I think it's a problem in the jumper cables. 4ga cables don't get
hot, 10ga cables get hot and have enough voltage drop to prevent
them from starting a car. 6ga and 8ga cables are iffy.

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Dave M.]

Alan,

In my experience, jump-starting a diesel - whether it's a little VW
diesel, or an MB diesel - is very different than your typical gas
engine. To make a long story somewhat shorter, I finally learned that
6 gauge, or even 4 gauge, booster cables are nearly useless. 2 gauge
is barely adequate, but it's hard to find anything larger unless you
make them yourself from welding cable. The smaller cables make the
engine turn over very slowly. Bigger cables, or doubling-up two
pairs of smaller ones, made a HUGE difference even on my little VW
diesel 4-banger.

The best deal I know of is at AutoZone. They have a nice set of
2-gauge, 20-foot cables, made in USA, with beefy clamps for $39. I
looked all over and that's the best deal I could find for seriously
heavy-duty cables.

While your 300SD *could* have some other electrical issues, my money
is on the booster cables you were using. Try bigger ones, or simply
get the battery fully charged - that will eliminate that possibility
quickly. If a fully-charged Group 49 battery is having trouble
spinning the engine, you either have wiring problems, or a starter
going out.

:-)

-Dave M.

> --
> Date: 16 Jan 2006 20:25:21 -
> From: "Alan Duff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question
>
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
> the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the electrical
> system?
>
> Alan Duff
> Knoxville, TN

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Potter, Tom E]

Mitch is correct. The cheapo jumper cables won't cut it with a diesel.
Get some good cables.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:09 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

Alan Duff wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot
to
> the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the
electrical
> system?

I think it's a problem in the jumper cables. 4ga cables don't get
hot, 10ga cables get hot and have enough voltage drop to prevent
them from starting a car. 6ga and 8ga cables are iffy.

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Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Tom Hargrave]

Alan,

More than likely it's small diameter cables and a completely dead battery.
You need jumper cables made from least 8 gauge wire to jump start without
help from the vehicle's battery and even 8 gauge will get warm. It helps a
lot to let the vehicle's battery charge 15 minutes through the jumper cables
before trying to start.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
www.kegkits.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alan Duff
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:25 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question


I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the electrical
system?

Alan Duff
Knoxville, TN

___
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Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Jeff Zedic]

It's very tough to jump start a diesel because they use a LOT of juice. 
You're better off putting a better battery in it to start the car.


Jeff Zedic
Toronto

Re: [MBZ] 84 300SD Starter Question

[Mitch Haley]

Alan Duff wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at a 1984 300SD with 231k miles. In attempting to start it
> using booster cables, with a hot jump battery, the starter spings very
> slowly. Never gets fast enough to start and he jumper cables get hot to
> the touch. Is this a bad starter or some other problem in the electrical
> system?

I think it's a problem in the jumper cables. 4ga cables don't get
hot, 10ga cables get hot and have enough voltage drop to prevent
them from starting a car. 6ga and 8ga cables are iffy.