Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
Those numbers are totally made up. Try these ones of what I'd imagine you'd get trading in a $100 car like my '87 740 Turbo for a new Huyndai Accent: So let's do the final tally here: You traded in a car worth: $100 You got a discount of: $4500 - Net so far +$4400 But you have to pay:$0 in taxes on the $4500 Net so far: +$4400 And you paid: $0 more than the car was selling for the month before (MSRP didn't change) -- Net +$4400 Gross (new Accent is 9,970) -5570 Basically you are 6 grand poorer, and have a much worse car. Without the stimulus you'd be 10 grand poorer and have the same car. Buying a new car makes zero economic sense- taking a huge discount on one if you're going to buy one anyways does make a lot of sense. Tyler Thought ya'll might enjoy this -- The Plan, The Scam, The Man, Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together? The Scam Here is what a learned friend had to say about Democratic Math. It's even worse apparently than I first thought: It's way worse than that. Ignore all the gas crap and just look at how the stupid car buyer got taken to the cleaners: If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent savings of $1000. However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making. But wait; it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the cash for clunkers program started. When cash for clunkers came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did). So let's do the final tally here: You traded in a car worth: $3500 You got a discount of: $4500 - Net so far +$1000 But you have to pay:$1350 in taxes on the $4500 Net so far: -$350 And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before -- Net -$3350 We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let's just stop here. So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they gave you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in free money from the government when in fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. Think this was stupid for those who were crazy enough to swallow this wonderful scheme? Just wait until we get health care with no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think that scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with Cash for Clunkers? LarryT 74 911 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
Which is exactly what the program was supposed to do --- On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: so everybody participating in CFC lost except the carmakers and the dealers (assuming the dealers didn't botch their CFC applications). Mitch. -- OK Don CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. The Devil's Dictionary Ambrose Bierce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
Well on the question of taxability, the real answer, as usual, appears to be maybe. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/clunkers-credits-taxable/ Not federally taxable, but apparently it may be at the state/local level. You also might not have gotten the usual offset on sales taxes that a trade-in would normally give you when you buy from a dealer. On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:55 -0800, John Freer mbfo...@gmail.com wrote: No, I did not enjoy reading this garbage. Why? Because it is not true. There is NO Federal Income Tax due. Bandwidth is heavy these days, please check the facts. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
My take on this is that if you get more for a trade in than your basis, you've got a capital gain. If you paid more for your trade in than you got for it, you've got a nondeductible loss. Unfortunately, it seemed like the manufacturer rebates went down by about $3000 on most cars when the CFC program started, so everybody participating in CFC lost except the carmakers and the dealers (assuming the dealers didn't botch their CFC applications). Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
i think this is an important announcement about cash for clunkers i'm not affiliated with cash for clunkers, btw On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:30 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Thought ya'll might enjoy this -- The Plan, The Scam, The Man, Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together? The Scam Here is what a learned friend had to say about Democratic Math. It's even worse apparently than I first thought: It's way worse than that. Ignore all the gas crap and just look at how the stupid car buyer got taken to the cleaners: If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent savings of $1000. However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making. But wait; it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the cash for clunkers program started. When cash for clunkers came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did). So let's do the final tally here: You traded in a car worth: $3500 You got a discount of: $4500 - Net so far +$1000 But you have to pay:$1350 in taxes on the $4500 Net so far: -$350 And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before -- Net -$3350 We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let's just stop here. So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they gave you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in free money from the government when in fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. Think this was stupid for those who were crazy enough to swallow this wonderful scheme? Just wait until we get health care with no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think that scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with Cash for Clunkers? LarryT 74 911 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cash For Clunkers - Some Numbers
No, I did not enjoy reading this garbage. Why? Because it is not true. There is NO Federal Income Tax due. Bandwidth is heavy these days, please check the facts. On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Thought ya'll might enjoy this -- The Plan, The Scam, The Man, Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together? The Scam Here is what a learned friend had to say about Democratic Math. It's even worse apparently than I first thought: It's way worse than that. Ignore all the gas crap and just look at how the stupid car buyer got taken to the cleaners: If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent savings of $1000. However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making. But wait; it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the cash for clunkers program started. When cash for clunkers came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did). So let's do the final tally here: You traded in a car worth: $3500 You got a discount of: $4500 - Net so far +$1000 But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500 Net so far: -$350 And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before -- Net -$3350 We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let's just stop here. So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they gave you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in free money from the government when in fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. Think this was stupid for those who were crazy enough to swallow this wonderful scheme? Just wait until we get health care with no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think that scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with Cash for Clunkers? LarryT 74 911 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
