Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
But also a pat on the back for DIY and saved $$! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of glenn brown Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:36 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Cc: Lee Brown Subject: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5688 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20101020/e8de658f/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
I have observed that fuses can look perfectly fine from the front and when you actually pull them from the clip you find that the ends are either corroded or melted away almost to nothing. Allan On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:35 -0400, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
What I find bizarre is the intermittent nature of Glenn's problem. In 20+ yeears of W123 ownership I have never had this happen to me (nearly everything else has, however). On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.eduwrote: I have observed that fuses can look perfectly fine from the front and when you actually pull them from the clip you find that the ends are either corroded or melted away almost to nothing. Allan On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:35 -0400, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
CHANGE YOUR FUSES! --R On 10/20/2010 11:03 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: What I find bizarre is the intermittent nature of Glenn's problem. In 20+ yeears of W123 ownership I have never had this happen to me (nearly everything else has, however). On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Allan Streibstr...@cs.indiana.eduwrote: I have observed that fuses can look perfectly fine from the front and when you actually pull them from the clip you find that the ends are either corroded or melted away almost to nothing. Allan On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:35 -0400, glenn browng_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
Or they fall apart when ya pull 'em. Wilton - Original Message - From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD I have observed that fuses can look perfectly fine from the front and when you actually pull them from the clip you find that the ends are either corroded or melted away almost to nothing. Allan On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:35 -0400, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
I think that more than one fuse is involved in electric windows. As I recall, there are at least two, which power the windows in a split configuration exactly like your failure (LF and RR = one fuse, RF and LR = 2nd fuse). Don't forget the accordion joint for the RR door. You may have to pull a door panel or two again, testing periodically, to figure out exactly what causes the power (or ground) to come and go. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of glenn brown Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:22 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD I just changed the fuse in the #12 position (electric windows) and jiggled the wire bundle/harness in the neoprene bellows which goes through the LF door and neither produced success when the electric window rocker was depressed. A detail I hadn't mentioned - the RF LR electric windows operate fine. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
On 18/10/2010 5:32 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I would look for clues in the door, but it is possible that a wire going through the door into the body pillar might be work hardened to the breaking point. The relay is possible. Bear in mind that BOTH windows are on the same fuse. Have you put in a new fuse? While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint noises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com I might be way behind on this as I have yet to read all of the posts on the subject, but have you tried cleaning the switches? My wife's now gone Toyota Avalon developed a problem in the driver's door window and I obtained the new motor but discovered when I had the door apart that the motor was fine. Tested it with jumpers and it worked fine. Traced power back and determined that the switch was not working well. Sprayed with contact cleaner and worked it a bit and then sent the new motor back. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
You are lucky that YOUR pistons didn't MELT. On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:35 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
Or WORSE Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld -Original Message- From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:21:35 To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD You are lucky that YOUR pistons didn't MELT. On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:35 PM, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: I deserve 5 demerits! Since a couple listers seemed determined that the LF/RR window inoperation may be due to a fuse problem. I took another look and this time actually read the fuse diagram/layout correctly as fuse A is for the RF/LR and fuse B is for the LF/RR windows. Well, fuse A was quite corroded and when replaced all is fine . . . I know, I know, don't rub it in too much. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
Grounds? --R On 10/18/2010 6:15 PM, glenn brown wrote: While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint noises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
Looking forwad to answers to this problem myself, the same thing is going on with my 86 SDL. Harry 86 300 SDL - Original Message - From: glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint noises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
I would look for clues in the door, but it is possible that a wire going through the door into the body pillar might be work hardened to the breaking point. The relay is possible. Bear in mind that BOTH windows are on the same fuse. Have you put in a new fuse? While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint noises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
A little off the topic of your question... but which rust converter are you using? Allan On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:15 -0400, glenn brown g_010...@hotmail.com wrote: While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint no! ises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. BrownBrevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
glenn brown wrote: ... I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC Does it matter if the door is swung open or not? That can be an indication of a broken wire between the body and the door. I have replace 3-4 wires in various cars for that reason. Often wiggling the rubber boot can move the wires enough to make it work or not. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD
Broken/frayed wires in the accordion joint at the door hinge? -Max From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com on behalf of glenn brown Sent: Mon 10/18/2010 6:15 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] LF RR electric windows in '85 TD While taking the door upholstery apart on my newly acquired '85 300TD in order to use rust converter and undercoating/rustproofing on the interior of the doors, I started with the LF door the other day and the electric windows for this door and the RR door stopped working after reassembly. I figured it may be the ice cube size window relay up behind the instrument cluster, as I had this problem with my '84 300D some years ago and unplugging and replugging this relay resolved the problem. But since there doesn't seem enough room to get my paws in behind the instrument cluster to disconnect the speedometer, oil pressure line, and electrical connector in order that I may remove the instrument cluster and deal with the window relay. I pulled the LF door upholstery back off today in order to check the electric window ground and voltage. Ground is good and, when I was measuring the voltage across the terminal block on the door the electric window motor was making some faint noises as if it was trying to operate. I thought that to be odd, disconnected my voltmeter and operated the LF electric window switch and the bloody window operated. I checked the RR window and it operated as well. I reassembled the LF door upholstery and you guessed it, the LF and RR windows are inoperative again. Clue(s)? TIA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com http://www.okiebenz.com/ For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
