Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
Please move to DC to broaden our tax base. On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 1:44 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I’m going to be selling the house soon so probably not going to run new > service to the garage to accommodate the welder so will just put in a > socket near the shutoff circuit and get an extension cord to have a bit > more flexibility. > > --FT > Sent from iFōn > > > On Mar 20, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or > wherever), > > Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord > > on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the > > welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue > > to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V > appliance > > you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die > or > > start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) > > > > (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, > > you have a place to plug it in already.) > > > > Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. > > > > I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder > somewhere > > it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, > then send > > it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! > > > > I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay > elevator. It was > > a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and > we > > used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to > 220V, > > as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. > (That > > really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a > ceiling joist, > > overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I > could > > do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No > > tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. > > > > -- Jim > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
I’m going to be selling the house soon so probably not going to run new service to the garage to accommodate the welder so will just put in a socket near the shutoff circuit and get an extension cord to have a bit more flexibility. --FT Sent from iFōn > On Mar 20, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or > wherever), > Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord > on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the > welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue > to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V appliance > you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die or > start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) > > (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, > you have a place to plug it in already.) > > Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. > > I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder somewhere > it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, then > send > it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! > > I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay elevator. It > was > a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and we > used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to 220V, > as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. (That > really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a > ceiling joist, > overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I could > do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No > tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. > > -- Jim > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or wherever), Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V appliance you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die or start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, you have a place to plug it in already.) Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder somewhere it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, then send it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay elevator. It was a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and we used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to 220V, as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. (That really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a ceiling joist, overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I could do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
I have a 40A breaker on my new 200A main power cutoff box for the addition (it's under the addition but easy to reach) that I broke out with (I think) 8g wire to a box that I never hooked up to anything, I'll have to look to make sure. I'll put a socket on that. It's not in the garage but I can do stuff outside if I need to. The shutoff has a bunch of breaker spaces too so I could always put something else on it. I was looking for extension cords for this, and lo Yeswelder sell ext cords for the 220V input. A 20ft #8 and a 40ft #10, both with the 50A ends, which makes no sense but there you go. https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Welder-Extension-Welding-Machines/dp/B08QJ929NG https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Welder-Extension-Welding-Machines/dp/B08QJ8PBSW And this one https://www.amazon.com/Miady-Welding-Industrial-Machine-Lighted/dp/B07RY4KXKD which is 25ft #8 I will probably just buy some cable and make up an extension for the 200V 40A breakout with a 50A socket on the box, put those 50A connectors on it, and have a go at it. I could pop in a 30A breaker too instead of the 40A, keep the machine from roasting itself I guess, but keep all the 50A stuff from the machine. Or maybe the 40A would provide some of the extra starting current without frying the machine and tripping the breaker? I guess that is a happy medium between 30 and 50. Thanks for your input! --FT On 3/19/22 2:58 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. The worst thing is that it will start a fire, and not out on the flamey end. Though this is unlikely. I REALLY don't like the games they're clearly playing with the input cord. Also, their labeled specs are pretty crappy/confusing. On the back, IF I interpret correctly, it says that 110V Imax is 43A, but it says that Ieff (effective, i.e. RMS) is only 33A. Heating is the problem with overcurrent, and heating is driven by RMS current, not peak. So, so long as the wire in their firestarter cabling is good for 30A (RMS) then it won't catch on fire. You will be hard-pressed, though, to find any standard-looking outlet that will give you more than 20A before its breaker pops. And you will be hard pressed to find any standard-looking outlet that is capable of delivering 50% more current (30A) through its blade contacts without causing problems, even if it was wired and fused for 30A. (10ga wiring, 30A breaker. DO NOT DO THIS) There's a reason that those high-current plugs have such big pins. So, there's no way this would work well at high loads for very long. The input wiring is simply not up to the task. You, and indeed likely most of their customers, will probably not be riding it so hard as to cause input feed problems, and so it'll probably work fine. This is China, Inc., and they simply don't care about a few fires that might come of this. At the first sign of trouble they'd simply change the paint color and the name on it, and soldier on. All of these objections would go away if they'd simply put a real 220V cord on it, with the correct 30A (50A?) plug. It could be used on 110V, but one should expect the 20A breaker to pop if you run it too hard for too long. -- Jim -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
> I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. The worst thing is that it will start a fire, and not out on the flamey end. Though this is unlikely. I REALLY don't like the games they're clearly playing with the input cord. Also, their labeled specs are pretty crappy/confusing. On the back, IF I interpret correctly, it says that 110V Imax is 43A, but it says that Ieff (effective, i.e. RMS) is only 33A. Heating is the problem with overcurrent, and heating is driven by RMS current, not peak. So, so long as the wire in their firestarter cabling is good for 30A (RMS) then it won't catch on fire. You will be hard-pressed, though, to find any standard-looking outlet that will give you more than 20A before its breaker pops. And you will be hard pressed to find any standard-looking outlet that is capable of delivering 50% more current (30A) through its blade contacts without causing problems, even if it was wired and fused for 30A. (10ga wiring, 30A breaker. DO NOT DO THIS) There's a reason that those high-current plugs have such big pins. So, there's no way this would work well at high loads for very long. The input wiring is simply not up to the task. You, and indeed likely most of their customers, will probably not be riding it so hard as to cause input feed problems, and so it'll probably work fine. This is China, Inc., and they simply don't care about a few fires that might come of this. At the first sign of trouble they'd simply change the paint color and the name on it, and soldier on. All of these objections would go away if they'd simply put a real 220V cord on it, with the correct 30A (50A?) plug. It could be used on 110V, but one should expect the 20A breaker to pop if you run it too hard for too long. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
I wonder how old the rest of the plumbing is? Those galvanized fittings look like new (at least on the outside). We find that the current crop of galvanized fittings that come from the far east don't last long on our setup out at the lake. On 6/6/2021 7:33 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: IIRC I've already told you guys about our plans to rebuild the house up north. We just returned from a 2 week trip up there. On this trip I wanted to spend time evaluating the house and making a plan of attack. One of the things I looked at was the water system.https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPi2hLpSjBRTs65U6That's the pump and pressure tank. That pump is at least 40 years old, maybe more: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zyNUxCMYGi4eTMnv7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/6KqRFghXQA2DUe5P9This is the electric that controls the pump, the one that actually runs the pump is the rear one, the front one is the pump for the cistern. The "soft water system" as the previous owner says. That system is all disconnected and hasn't been used in years. It's hard to tell from the picture but the switch is about 8 FEET off the ground. I can just reach it if I stand on the platform the pump is on. You can also see that the switched being used is nestled right in the pipes... Obviously a stupid location. I'd like to move the whole dang thing down about 4 feet and out from the wall about 2 feet which would put it about 2 feet above the pump and maybe a foot in front of it. Do any of you geniuses see a reason I shouldn't? I'm going to eliminate the soft water wiring entirely, we don't need it... The pump works, in the third picture its turned off but I pushed the lever up and the pump started. It built about 55# of pressure and shut off. When the pressure gets down to about 10# it turns back on. We've got another pump so if/when this one fails I can just swap over. It's loud but I can't complain about it otherwise... -Curt ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
Not a shower at least, there isn't one. There is a tub but no shower head. Caldon's grandparents moved into the house in 1920. It's an interesting place, the original house was built in 1888, you can see the hand hewn timbers in the basement. Then at some point before 1920 somebody added on basically doubling the house, that section is dimensional lumber but "real" dimension. Again you can see the split in the basement. At some point, which I haven't been able to determine, somebody put a full basement under the place. It's poured concrete, at least 10 feet high, I can't touch the rafters from the floor. Very well done, I can't find any cracks in it to speak of. I don't think it gets wet, while we're not far from the river we're probably 50 feet above where it is normally and 20 feet above even the most extraordinary flood events of the last 100 years. The basement doesn't smell wet, there is a bunch of cordwood stored down there (old cedar telephone poles mostly) that are all solid and show no signs of rot, there isn't a water line on the wall anywhere that I can find... -Curt On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 9:43:06 AM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Or maybe they had some rotten kids that would shut off the water on their old man when he was all lathered up in the shower... - Max Charleston SC On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 9:40 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > They might be giants... > > Was the switch located up high to keep it out of the spring floods? Or > were they trying to save wire, make a short run? Or was the floor dug out > to make the room deeper after the switch was installed? > > > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 8:34 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> IIRC I've already told you guys about our plans to rebuild the house up >> north. We just returned from a 2 week trip up there. On this trip I wanted >> to spend time evaluating the house and making a plan of attack. One of the >> things I looked at was the water system. >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPi2hLpSjBRTs65U6That's the pump and pressure >> tank. That pump is at least 40 years old, maybe more: >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zyNUxCMYGi4eTMnv7 >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6KqRFghXQA2DUe5P9This is the electric that >> controls the pump, the one that actually runs the pump is the rear one, the >> front one is the pump for the cistern. The "soft water system" as the >> previous owner says. That system is all disconnected and hasn't been used >> in years. >> It's hard to tell from the picture but the switch is about 8 FEET off the >> ground. I can just reach it if I stand on the platform the pump is on. You >> can also see that the switched being used is nestled right in the pipes... >> Obviously a stupid location. >> I'd like to move the whole dang thing down about 4 feet and out from the >> wall about 2 feet which would put it about 2 feet above the pump and maybe >> a foot in front of it. Do any of you geniuses see a reason I shouldn't? I'm >> going to eliminate the soft water wiring entirely, we don't need it... >> The pump works, in the third picture its turned off but I pushed the >> lever up and the pump started. It built about 55# of pressure and shut off. >> When the pressure gets down to about 10# it turns back on. We've got >> another pump so if/when this one fails I can just swap over. It's loud but >> I can't complain about it otherwise... >> -Curt >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
Hmm, good points. I think maybe I'll put a piece of plywood to block the pump and piping from the switch and mount it on the opposite side. So 2' higher than the pump but with a 2' wide wall between the pump and the switch. 40 years ago is when Caldon moved into the house, he's done basically nothing to it in that time. Or rather, he hasn't fixed anything other than putting a piece of cracker box over a broken window pane. He did pull all the insulation and wall board out of the kitchen... -Curt On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 9:41:10 AM EDT, Jim Cathey wrote: You don't want anything in the way of working on the plumbing. 2' in front of the pump, and 2' over it, sounds a bit close. Also, you don't want the electrics in the path of any leak that might spring up and spray the area. Pressure switches should cut out when the pressure gets too low, too. That way a catastrophic leak will cause it to shut off, likewise if the water supply dries up. Combination floor-saver and pump-saver. Mine has a lever you have to hold until the pressure builds up some. That pump looks closer to 60yo to me, than 40. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
Or maybe they had some rotten kids that would shut off the water on their old man when he was all lathered up in the shower... - Max Charleston SC On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 9:40 AM Meade Dillon wrote: > They might be giants... > > Was the switch located up high to keep it out of the spring floods? Or > were they trying to save wire, make a short run? Or was the floor dug out > to make the room deeper after the switch was installed? > > > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 8:34 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> IIRC I've already told you guys about our plans to rebuild the house up >> north. We just returned from a 2 week trip up there. On this trip I wanted >> to spend time evaluating the house and making a plan of attack. One of the >> things I looked at was the water system. >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPi2hLpSjBRTs65U6That's the pump and pressure >> tank. That pump is at least 40 years old, maybe more: >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zyNUxCMYGi4eTMnv7 >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6KqRFghXQA2DUe5P9This is the electric that >> controls the pump, the one that actually runs the pump is the rear one, the >> front one is the pump for the cistern. The "soft water system" as the >> previous owner says. That system is all disconnected and hasn't been used >> in years. >> It's hard to tell from the picture but the switch is about 8 FEET off the >> ground. I can just reach it if I stand on the platform the pump is on. You >> can also see that the switched being used is nestled right in the pipes... >> Obviously a stupid location. >> I'd like to move the whole dang thing down about 4 feet and out from the >> wall about 2 feet which would put it about 2 feet above the pump and maybe >> a foot in front of it. Do any of you geniuses see a reason I shouldn't? I'm >> going to eliminate the soft water wiring entirely, we don't need it... >> The pump works, in the third picture its turned off but I pushed the >> lever up and the pump started. It built about 55# of pressure and shut off. >> When the pressure gets down to about 10# it turns back on. We've got >> another pump so if/when this one fails I can just swap over. It's loud but >> I can't complain about it otherwise... >> -Curt >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
You don't want anything in the way of working on the plumbing. 2' in front of the pump, and 2' over it, sounds a bit close. Also, you don't want the electrics in the path of any leak that might spring up and spray the area. Pressure switches should cut out when the pressure gets too low, too. That way a catastrophic leak will cause it to shut off, likewise if the water supply dries up. Combination floor-saver and pump-saver. Mine has a lever you have to hold until the pressure builds up some. That pump looks closer to 60yo to me, than 40. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Electrical question
They might be giants... Was the switch located up high to keep it out of the spring floods? Or were they trying to save wire, make a short run? Or was the floor dug out to make the room deeper after the switch was installed? - Max Charleston SC On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 8:34 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > IIRC I've already told you guys about our plans to rebuild the house up > north. We just returned from a 2 week trip up there. On this trip I wanted > to spend time evaluating the house and making a plan of attack. One of the > things I looked at was the water system. > https://photos.app.goo.gl/UPi2hLpSjBRTs65U6That's the pump and pressure > tank. That pump is at least 40 years old, maybe more: > https://photos.app.goo.gl/zyNUxCMYGi4eTMnv7 > https://photos.app.goo.gl/6KqRFghXQA2DUe5P9This is the electric that > controls the pump, the one that actually runs the pump is the rear one, the > front one is the pump for the cistern. The "soft water system" as the > previous owner says. That system is all disconnected and hasn't been used > in years. > It's hard to tell from the picture but the switch is about 8 FEET off the > ground. I can just reach it if I stand on the platform the pump is on. You > can also see that the switched being used is nestled right in the pipes... > Obviously a stupid location. > I'd like to move the whole dang thing down about 4 feet and out from the > wall about 2 feet which would put it about 2 feet above the pump and maybe > a foot in front of it. Do any of you geniuses see a reason I shouldn't? I'm > going to eliminate the soft water wiring entirely, we don't need it... > The pump works, in the third picture its turned off but I pushed the lever > up and the pump started. It built about 55# of pressure and shut off. When > the pressure gets down to about 10# it turns back on. We've got another > pump so if/when this one fails I can just swap over. It's loud but I can't > complain about it otherwise... > -Curt > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
