Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
I've yet to actually find the pictures but my grandmother swears this is true: My great grandfather bought new a 1928 Farmall Regular. For those who don't know tractors the Regular was the first tractor with the now common tricycle front wheel arrangement where the two front wheels are close together. Top speed of that machine is about 4mph. He also owned a 1919 Buick open touring car which was normally used to go to town about 5 miles away. However to haul the whole family and produce to town, or to return with supplies or if they took the hired hands with them the Buick was too small so they took a truck rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as fast as anybody would dare. TK (great grandfather) died in 1933 when the brakes failed in the Buick and he was hit by a train, to give you an idea of the time period. -Curt Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:01:06 -0500 From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors Message-ID: 50a80922.90...@constructivity.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they put road gears in them and can go quite fast. They build these little wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and Tractor Supply. I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except it looks like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction. -R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
No worse than riding a buggy on 2 lane rural roads posted at 55mph. On Saturday, November 17, 2012, Rich Thomas wrote: Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they put road gears in them and can go quite fast. They build these little wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and Tractor Supply. I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except it looks like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction. -R On 11/17/12 2:04 PM, Michael Canfield wrote: My neighbor put a hot running Chevy 250 inline 6 in an old Oliver 66. He got clocked @ 60mph skidding logs down a state highway. Cop didn't give him a ticket because he was afraid of getting laughed out of the station house for writing a farm tractor a ticket for speeding on a 55mph road. Mike On Nov 17, 2012 12:59 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=related **http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=related That is hilarious, especially in the field. I showed it to a friend and he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine in a Cockshutt. (55 to 65 era) Cockshutts were known for high road speeds. With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks down the road at 30 MPH. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.**com/archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.**okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/**mercedes_okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Curt Raymond wrote: ... so they took a truck rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as fast as anybody would dare. Some rough calculations - with guesses. tire diameter in inches 30 tire circumference in ft7.853982 road speed, MPH 20 road speed, feet/minute 1760 tire RPM at road speed 224.09016 differential ratio 4 driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639 PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. Try again with other numbers tire diameter in inches 37 tire circumference in ft9.686577 road speed, MPH 20 road speed, feet/minute 1760 tire RPM at road speed 181.694724 differential ratio 3 driveshaft RPM 545.084173 There. With a 37 tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the numbers match up. *smiles* It's withing the realm of possible. --Philip, avoiding work. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM. See http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Yep. The tractor in question, if it had a pto, would have been 540 rpm@ 80% or so of engine power. 1080 RPM has more splines, and didn't come out until 1960s or so on high HP (for the time) tractors. ~90+ HP would have been high HP for the time. 966 and up Internationals had 1000 RPM available. I am not sure when it was first offered, or what models it was available, or when it became standard on certain models. Probably first appeared on JDs with the 4010 or 4020. I didn't find any info on when the high RPM PTO first appeared, but I did find that in 1945 Cockshutt introduced the first live PTO. On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM. See http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Hmm, I'd doubt 37 tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for scrap but never saw it in action. -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors Message-ID: 20121120130317.42fbd0b2.fmi...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Curt Raymond wrote: ... so they took a truck rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as fast as anybody would dare. Some rough calculations - with guesses. tire diameter in inches30 tire circumference in ft7.853982 road speed, MPH20 road speed, feet/minute1760 tire RPM at road speed224.09016 differential ratio4 driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639 PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. Try again with other numbers tire diameter in inches37 tire circumference in ft9.686577 road speed, MPH20 road speed, feet/minute1760 tire RPM at road speed181.694724 differential ratio3 driveshaft RPM545.084173 There. With a 37 tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the numbers match up. *smiles* It's withing the realm of possible. --Philip, avoiding work. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
I have the tractor, it definitely has PTO. I *think* all Farmall tractors have PTO. That part of the story is without a doubt. Engine speed is probably 1000rpm (my '52 Farmall Super M is 1200), the 540rpm PTO is almost a certainty. -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:03:41 -0600 From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors Message-ID: a06240827ccd1c61703d3@[192.168.1.70] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Yep. The tractor in question, if it had a pto, would have been 540 rpm@ 80% or so of engine power. 1080 RPM has more splines, and didn't come out until 1960s or so on high HP (for the time) tractors. ~90+ HP would have been high HP for the time. 966 and up Internationals had 1000 RPM available. I am not sure when it was first offered, or what models it was available, or when it became standard on certain models. Probably first appeared on JDs with the 4010 or 4020. I didn't find any info on when the high RPM PTO first appeared, but I did find that in 1945 Cockshutt introduced the first live PTO. On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM. See http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tractors/2010/feature/hitch_drawbar_and_pto/7030lf/7030lf_pto_options.html Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
I would bet on a carrier bearing for driveshaft support and a chain drive to get the speed up from the 540rpm pto. Likely back then the truck rear had way low gears, like in the high 5's or 6's and even with tall tires 20mph would need a 2:1 ratio sprocket setup. Neat idea. Mike On Nov 20, 2012 7:42 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Hmm, I'd doubt 37 tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for scrap but never saw it in action. -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors Message-ID: 20121120130317.42fbd0b2.fmi...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Curt Raymond wrote: ... so they took a truck rear end and made it the front axle for a wagon. They powered that axle with the PTO of the tractor. Supposedly this arrangement could make about 20mph which I imagine to be as fast as anybody would dare. Some rough calculations - with guesses. tire diameter in inches30 tire circumference in ft7.853982 road speed, MPH20 road speed, feet/minute1760 tire RPM at road speed224.09016 differential ratio4 driveshaft (PTO) RPM896.360639 PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. Try again with other numbers tire diameter in inches37 tire circumference in ft9.686577 road speed, MPH20 road speed, feet/minute1760 tire RPM at road speed181.694724 differential ratio3 driveshaft RPM545.084173 There. With a 37 tall tire, and a axle ratio of 3:1, the numbers match up. *smiles* It's withing the realm of possible. --Philip, avoiding work. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Craig wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM. Yeah, I heard that. But this was prior to 1933. So what was PTO speed then? -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Curt Raymond wrote: Hmm, I'd doubt 37 tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for scrap but never saw it in action. It's pretty rare for a transmission to be overdrive, especially at that time period - so typically it would only decrease the road speed. Or maybe the PTO could turn faster than 540 RPM. Or maybe the differential had a ratio of 2.4:1 Or maybe it just _felt_ like 20 MPH! --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Craig wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:03:17 -0600 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: PTO RPM is typically 540, as I recall, so 900 RPM is a bit fast. There are two standard PTO speeds now, 540 RPM and 1000 RPM. Yeah, I heard that. But this was prior to 1933. So what was PTO speed then? -- Philip 540 It predates the F20 and farmall regular. From wikipedia Power take off: History Experimental power take-offs were tried as early as 1878, and various homemade versions arose over the subsequent decades, but International Harvester Company (IHC) was first to install a PTO on a production tractor, with its model 8-16, introduced in 1918.[2] Edward A. Johnston, an IHC engineer, had been impressed by a homemade PTO that he saw in France about a decade before, improvised by a French farmer and mechanic surnamed Gougis.[2] He and his IHC colleagues incorporated the idea into the 8-16, and designed a family of implements to take advantage of the feature. In 1920, IHC offered this option on their 15-30 tractor, and it was the first PTO-equipped tractor to be submitted for a Nebraska tractor test. The first PTO standard was adopted by ASAE (the American Society of Agricultural Engineers) in April 1927. The PTO rotational speed was specified as 536 ± 10 rpm; the direction was clockwise. The speed was later changed to 540 rpm.[3] The PTO was a competitive advantage for IHC in the 1920s, and other companies eventually caught up with PTO implementation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Good points all. I like Mike's idea of chain drive, seems reasonable. Great uncle Reg swore it was in the neighborhood of 40mph but I don't think the road was paved in those days so I'm already discounting significantly. The Super M has a top speed of 16mph in 5th and its a helluva ride even at that speed. The Regular with narrow tires and simpler steering (think 2 big gears) and hand brakes would have been a real handful even at 20mph. Could be we're talking about 10mph which would still be twice stock. I should have asked how long it took to get to town. Its about 5 miles, that would have given me a better benchmark. Sadly anybody who really remembered the thing is deceased. My grandmother is still going (91 last month) but doesn't really remember the contraption. -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:15:47 -0600 From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors Message-ID: 20121120191547.54594f5a.fmi...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Curt Raymond wrote: Hmm, I'd doubt 37 tires. Maybe it was the rear axle of the wagon and there was a transmission involved... Actually now that I think of it Dad might have mentioned something about that. He claims to have seen the rig years later before it was sent off for scrap but never saw it in action. It's pretty rare for a transmission to be overdrive, especially at that time period - so typically it would only decrease the road speed. Or maybe the PTO could turn faster than 540 RPM. Or maybe the differential had a ratio of 2.4:1 Or maybe it just _felt_ like 20 MPH! --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo? now fast tractors
Some of the Amish have some sort of dispensation about tractors, so they put road gears in them and can go quite fast. They build these little wagon buggy things they can all crowd into, and go to Walmart and Tractor Supply. I see them doing this in KY, it is funny as hell except it looks like a total recipe for disaster and death and destruction. -R On 11/17/12 2:04 PM, Michael Canfield wrote: My neighbor put a hot running Chevy 250 inline 6 in an old Oliver 66. He got clocked @ 60mph skidding logs down a state highway. Cop didn't give him a ticket because he was afraid of getting laughed out of the station house for writing a farm tractor a ticket for speeding on a 55mph road. Mike On Nov 17, 2012 12:59 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAdIlgaAwMcfeature=related That is hilarious, especially in the field. I showed it to a friend and he told me about a guy he baled hay with that put a nash engine in a Cockshutt. (55 to 65 era) Cockshutts were known for high road speeds. With a big engine, he could pull the baler and 2 hayracks down the road at 30 MPH. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
