Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-09 Thread Barry Stark
Harry -
OK I don't buy that the MAS will be affected for the reason you gave, but
I'm not sure why the cats would be affected by a lower octane either.
Neither grade has any lead, and the only other thing that I've heard that
would poison the cats is too much hydrocarbon. Why would the computer
retarding the timing a bit, per the knock sensors, cause that? Or is there
something I'm missing. Please edumicate me.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:17 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


even though continued use of regular may not damage your engine, it will
damage the cats

Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


James Zavesky wrote:
 I'll bring in E320's from time to time and irregardless if it's a small 6,
8
 or 12 cylinder they all ping when run on back to back tanks of regular. We
 alternate tanks between Shell premium and super with no ill effects on all
 the cars. knocking is non existant. Won't run regualr as I don't want to
 spend $1600 for a pair of MAS air flow sensors.

While I don't doubt that regular fuel can cause damage to that engine, I
doubt the airflow sensors are going to be the victims.  They don't see
any gas, just air.


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-06 Thread mykd1
even though continued use of regular may not damage your engine, it will damage 
the cats 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


James Zavesky wrote:
 I'll bring in E320's from time to time and irregardless if it's a small 6, 8
 or 12 cylinder they all ping when run on back to back tanks of regular. We
 alternate tanks between Shell premium and super with no ill effects on all
 the cars. knocking is non existant. Won't run regualr as I don't want to
 spend $1600 for a pair of MAS air flow sensors.

While I don't doubt that regular fuel can cause damage to that engine, I
doubt the airflow sensors are going to be the victims.  They don't see
any gas, just air.


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-06 Thread mykd1
compression ratio isn't the only factor for running premium fuel. besides motor 
cycles aren't required to have emission controls 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


TimothyPilgrim wrote:
 Funny, my motorcycle (1999 Honda CBR1100XX) has a ratio of 11:1 and it
 runs on RUG-87. It also Compression ratio can't be the only factor in
 determining octane rating required.
   

Modern electronic ignition and fuel injection have allowed manufacturers
to run higher compression with the same octane ratings without knock. 
Most modern engines have knock sensors and run right on the edge of
pinging all the time, with the ECU dialing back the ignition advance
when it sees the first signs of it.


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread David Brodbeck
James Zavesky wrote:
 I'll bring in E320's from time to time and irregardless if it's a small 6, 8
 or 12 cylinder they all ping when run on back to back tanks of regular. We
 alternate tanks between Shell premium and super with no ill effects on all
 the cars. knocking is non existant. Won't run regualr as I don't want to
 spend $1600 for a pair of MAS air flow sensors.

While I don't doubt that regular fuel can cause damage to that engine, I
doubt the airflow sensors are going to be the victims.  They don't see
any gas, just air.




Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread Marshall Booth
Prior to 1972 ALL Mercedes gasoline engines delivered to the US required 
91 octane, between '72 and '85 87 octane fuel was fine (for US delivered 
cars). Starting in 1986 all models except the '86 190E 2.3 required 91 
octane ('87 and later 190E 2.3 required 91 octane too) and that is true 
thru 2000 (I expect the 21st century engines require 91 too, but I don't 
have official papers that say so!


Marshall
--
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread Mike Canfield

Hi Marshall,
 I bet you do have the papers that say so...I would guess that if you 
compare compression ratios, those years with lower octane ratings should 
have correspondingly lower compression ratios.

 Just speculation but sounds very logical, at least to me.

Mike
- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



Prior to 1972 ALL Mercedes gasoline engines delivered to the US required
91 octane, between '72 and '85 87 octane fuel was fine (for US delivered
cars). Starting in 1986 all models except the '86 190E 2.3 required 91
octane ('87 and later 190E 2.3 required 91 octane too) and that is true
thru 2000 (I expect the 21st century engines require 91 too, but I don't
have official papers that say so!

Marshall
--
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread TimothyPilgrim

Funny, my motorcycle (1999 Honda CBR1100XX) has a ratio of 11:1 and it
runs on RUG-87. It also Compression ratio can't be the only factor in
determining octane rating required.

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/97opensb/honda.html

:)

Tim
1982 300TD
1991 300TE 4Matic

---
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:55:39 -0500
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

That's what I was looking for...Compression ratio that high most
certainly requires high test.

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1




Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread David Brodbeck
TimothyPilgrim wrote:
 Funny, my motorcycle (1999 Honda CBR1100XX) has a ratio of 11:1 and it
 runs on RUG-87. It also Compression ratio can't be the only factor in
 determining octane rating required.
   

Modern electronic ignition and fuel injection have allowed manufacturers
to run higher compression with the same octane ratings without knock. 
Most modern engines have knock sensors and run right on the edge of
pinging all the time, with the ECU dialing back the ignition advance
when it sees the first signs of it.




Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread Mike Canfield
Compression ratio is the biggest factor in octane requirement..Higher 
compression = more chance of preignition and dictates use of higher octane 
fuel


Ask any performance engine builder if an engine with higher than 10:1 
compression will require high octane to keep preignition to a minimum.



Timing is the next most relevant factor.

Mike
- Original Message - 
From: TimothyPilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



Funny, my motorcycle (1999 Honda CBR1100XX) has a ratio of 11:1 and it
runs on RUG-87. It also Compression ratio can't be the only factor in
determining octane rating required.

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/97opensb/honda.html

:)

Tim
1982 300TD
1991 300TE 4Matic

---
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:55:39 -0500
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

That's what I was looking for...Compression ratio that high most
certainly requires high test.

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-05 Thread Tom Hargrave
Detonation occurs in the combustion chamber, opposite the spark plug. As the
flame front burns across the chamber, heat  pressure builds up until the
remaining gas explodes. With higher compression, you already have more
stored heat in the charge, making detonation more likely. Higher octane gas
burns slower than lower octane gas, reducing the pressure  heat. This
allows you to run higher compression. Timing can also help because reducing
spark advance delays when the spark starts  puts the piston further down
(lower pressure) when the flame front is moving across the head.

Compression ratio is important but head design is just as important.
Chrylser's Hemi engine runs higher compression because of its domed
combustion chamber  centered spark plug. The design has a very short flame
front because it travels from the center out. A wedge design can't come
close because the flame has to travel from one side to the other (twice the
distance), giving more time for detonation.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mike Canfield
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:07 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

Compression ratio is the biggest factor in octane requirement..Higher 
compression = more chance of preignition and dictates use of higher octane 
fuel

Ask any performance engine builder if an engine with higher than 10:1 
compression will require high octane to keep preignition to a minimum.


Timing is the next most relevant factor.

Mike
- Original Message - 
From: TimothyPilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 Funny, my motorcycle (1999 Honda CBR1100XX) has a ratio of 11:1 and it
 runs on RUG-87. It also Compression ratio can't be the only factor in
 determining octane rating required.

 http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/97opensb/honda.html

 :)

 Tim
 1982 300TD
 1991 300TE 4Matic



---
 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:55:39 -0500
 From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

 That's what I was looking for...Compression ratio that high most
 certainly requires high test.

 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1

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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread Mike Canfield

Jim,
 I am not concerned with compression test results..I am asking the 
compression RATIO to determine type of fuel quality required to prevent 
preignition.


Thanks, Mike
- Original Message - 
From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



Mike

As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple of
percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is significantly
different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you may
want to do a wet and dry test.

Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it 
will

tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.

Jim

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?



What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know NOTHING
about MBZ gassers.

Mike



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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread James Zavesky
should say premium inside the fuel filler door, unless it's a repaint.

Jim




- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 Jim,
   I am not concerned with compression test results..I am asking the
 compression RATIO to determine type of fuel quality required to prevent
 preignition.

 Thanks, Mike
 - Original Message - 
 From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:19 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


  Mike
 
  As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple
of
  percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is
significantly
  different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you may
  want to do a wet and dry test.
 
  Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it
  will
  tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.
 
  Jim
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?
 
 
  What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know NOTHING
  about MBZ gassers.
 
  Mike
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread Mike Canfield
LOLOLOLOL...I don't own one Jim...Someone else in a previous post 
does...I know MB says to run premium fuel but I want to know the 
compression ratio so I can see if that is the reason why.


Thanks, Mike
- Original Message - 
From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



should say premium inside the fuel filler door, unless it's a repaint.

Jim




- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



Jim,
  I am not concerned with compression test results..I am asking the
compression RATIO to determine type of fuel quality required to prevent
preignition.

Thanks, Mike
- Original Message - 
From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 Mike

 As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple

of

 percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is

significantly
 different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you 
 may

 want to do a wet and dry test.

 Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it
 will
 tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.

 Jim

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?


 What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know 
 NOTHING

 about MBZ gassers.

 Mike


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread Allan Streib
Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 LOLOLOLOL...I don't own one Jim...Someone else in a previous post 
 does...I know MB says to run premium fuel but I want to know the 
 compression ratio so I can see if that is the reason why.

MB gasoline engines are usually, if not exclusively, high compression
and require high-octane.  AFAIK.  They did/do make low compression
versions for markets where quality high-octane fuel is hard to get,
but the ones they exported to the US I think are all high compression.

Don't know the exact numbers.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1966 230



Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread James Zavesky
I'll bring in E320's from time to time and irregardless if it's a small 6, 8
or 12 cylinder they all ping when run on back to back tanks of regular. We
alternate tanks between Shell premium and super with no ill effects on all
the cars. knocking is non existant. Won't run regualr as I don't want to
spend $1600 for a pair of MAS air flow sensors. Over the years from tracking
mpg on all the gas and siesel cars Shell gave the best in mpg per dollar
spent. BP sucked and that was also true regionally when I went to southern
Ohio.

Jim


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 LOLOLOLOL...I don't own one Jim...Someone else in a previous post
 does...I know MB says to run premium fuel but I want to know the
 compression ratio so I can see if that is the reason why.

 Thanks, Mike
 - Original Message - 
 From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


  should say premium inside the fuel filler door, unless it's a repaint.
 
  Jim
 
 
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL
 
 
  Jim,
I am not concerned with compression test results..I am asking the
  compression RATIO to determine type of fuel quality required to prevent
  preignition.
 
  Thanks, Mike
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Zavesky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:19 PM
  Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL
 
 
   Mike
  
   As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a
couple
  of
   percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is
  significantly
   different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you
   may
   want to do a wet and dry test.
  
   Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test,
it
   will
   tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.
  
   Jim
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
   Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
   Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?
  
  
   What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know
   NOTHING
   about MBZ gassers.
  
   Mike
  
  
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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread mykd1
If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


Mike

As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple of
percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is significantly
different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you may
want to do a wet and dry test.

Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it will
tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.

Jim

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?


 What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know NOTHING
 about MBZ gassers.

 Mike


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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread Mike Canfield
That's what I was looking for...Compression ratio that high most 
certainly requires high test.


Thanks, Mike
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL



If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1

Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 2:19 PM
Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


Mike

As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple of
percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is significantly
different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you may
want to do a wet and dry test.

Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it 
will

tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.

Jim

- Original Message - 
From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?



What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know NOTHING
about MBZ gassers.

Mike



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Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL

2007-01-04 Thread mykd1
I do believe they require premium fuel like 91 octane 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
72 350SL   118,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


That's what I was looking for...Compression ratio that high most 
certainly requires high test.

Thanks, Mike
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 If thats the 300 SL I'm thinking about its 10.5:1

 Harry
 69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles
 72 350SL   118,000 Miles
 2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
 1999 Mazda Miata


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 2:19 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL


 Mike

 As long as the compression amongst all the cylinders is within a couple of
 percent you should be fine. If you see one cylinder that is significantly
 different redo the test and proceed with furthur diagnosis. Also you may
 want to do a wet and dry test.

 Also consider doing a leak down test instead of a compression test, it 
 will
 tell you more about the condition of the engine and what is wrong.

 Jim

 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Gas vs. diesel prices?


 What is the compression ratio on the engine in a 300SL?  I know NOTHING
 about MBZ gassers.

 Mike


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