[meteorite-list] Main mass
Hello List, are there main masses of the following Meteorites? Coya Norte, Filomena, Puripica, Quillagua, Rio Loa, San Martin, Tocopilla Union. Or are they just North Chile? So this will happen to all the paired NWAs sooner or later.It will depend if the Nomclat will throw away the paired numbers and just the first given number will survive. Or will they use the paired numbers in future. So it could be NWA 6978 ex NWA 6997 main mass. Does the main mass have to bee one Stone ? when I submit to the Nomclat a meteorite in 25 individuals or fragments wouldn't the Nomclat also say the main mass is with Mr x ,not specifying witch stone they mean? So for my part I don't have problems with NWA Main masses as long the Nomclat all the different pairings is using. But I have a problem with using the term Main mass when more than the half of the Stone is gone. Because when I am the owner of a whole Meteorite and I cut it and give the biggest piece away and sell some other slices as well and now the owner of the biggest piece cut it in small slices ,suddenly a owner of a full slice has the main mass and nobody will know. So I think when its more cut than the half ,the Main mass is gone. Does a Meteorite to have a Main mass? Just some thoughts in the morning. Andi __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Dr. Irving and Dr. Bunch both make pairing statements and are concerned about them. I was not aware that these two scientists had problems with the way the met society ran their naming system or how meteorite scientists world wide were reporting their classifications and meteorite details to the met society. Please arrange for Ted Bunch and Dr Irving to explain their misgivings with how the worlds scientists are reporting meteorites to the met society to all of us rather than just you in private. That way maybe we can take into account what they have to say and possibly change the way the met society operates. I for one would be interested in hearing what they have to say. The only reason main mass is put at the end of the classifications is that it was carried over from an old Nom Com format before NWA nomenclature even existed. Have you even looked at their submission format? I didnt realize that it is simply an overlooked book keeping error that main mass of NWAs and DAGs is reported in the met bulletin whenever possible and that the met society actually dont approve of the info being made publicly available. Why hasnt jeff Grossman been informed of this so that he can rectify the situation? I do not think a scientist in the world would agree that the example you gave earlier represents a true Main Mass. The coordinates are well known for NWA 1068/1110 and your pairings to them. So why would it be inappropraite and fraudlent to sell NWA1110 as NWA1068 when they are one and the same? Or am I not correct in my belief that it is not Ok to just sell a paired meteoirte using somebody elses number? They both have the same main mass so they are one and the same. Whatever number you use to sell something seems arbitrary in this situation. There will be a meeting in Tucson with a well-known committee person before the Peoples Auction to discuss subjects just like this so I am gathering a consensus. Really. I was not aware of this. Can you please give us more details so that people who want to attend can show up and properly prepare for the topics being discussed as it is getting pretty late to prepare for such an important meeting now with Tucson so near? Usually the met society puts effort into ensuring that everybody has an opportunity to get their ideas herd so this is uncharacteristic of them. Please arrange for the met society to make a official posting on the topics being discussed and who the chairperson and speakers will be. I assume that you have made arrangements with Michael Blood to provide time for the event so can we tell everybody the details? Given the importance of such an event I assume that preparations with Michael blood and the met society has already been made and given the short tiem to the event I would expect the meeting details should be made public soon for all to prepare? Thanks for organizing such an important even with the met society and michael blood in Tucson where it is easy for anybody interested to attend. You do a wonderful service to the meteorite community I am sure. Sincerely DEAN __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Dean, Read the List, Tracy Latimer already mentioned the lectures before the meteorite auction. She asked that somebody video tape them. I only heard about this through the grapevine like everybody else. I did not arrange anything so get your facts straight instead of jumping in with no knowledge for the sixth time in as many months. If you want Dr. Bunch's and Dr. Irving's opinions on main masses, contact them yourself. I have no idea what you are talking about, you make absolutely no sense to me. It would be fraudulent to sell NWA 1110 as NWA 1068. This has been discussed before so why are you trying to start arguments where none exists? Good night, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson
This was taken from Michael Blood's website: BRIEF LECTURES AVAILABLE PRIOR TO AUCTION: The following lectures will be given at the end of the hall from 6PM to 7PM. Any and all are welcome. (The hall is large enough that those not interested in the lectures, will be undisturbed and can concentrate on the auction lots, friends and food). Sponsored by: Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 6:00 The Southwest Meteorite Center - Marvin Killgore 6:15 The Importance of Meteorites - Dante Lauretta U of A 6:30 The Classification of Meteorites - Linda Welzenbach USNM 6:45 The Nomenclature of Meteorites - Harold Connolly, Jr. AMNH COORDINATED BY: Marvin Killgore Curator of Meteorites Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 1415 N. 6th Avenue Tucson, AZ 85705 Tel: 520 626-1294 Fax: 520 626-1973 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] main masses
Good morning list.Wow, what a great thread to wake up to.I have a few main masses,some are NW and some are USA falls.But one in particular that stands out for me is my DEVIL PEAK.It was found by john Gilliam.TKW is only 34 grams.I do not know what the distribution of this piece is (what collectors have of this piece).But I do know it is very small.I have the 9.2 gram piece.It is the largest piece left of that meteorite.THE MAIN MASS!It even says on the specimen card.With alto of NWA'S you are going to continue to have of discussion on main masses with those specimens.But it is a great discussion.I look forward to another 50 emails on this subject.Have a great day all.For me,10 days till Tucson. Steve Arnold,Chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass +add
I made some internet search and found the following definition of main mass at http://www.meteoritekit.com/glossary/ Main Mass The Main Mass refers to the total pre-atmospheric mass of a meteoroid or the largest known fragment of a meteorite. thats the strangest definiton of main mass I ever read! In my opinion, the main mass is the largest fragment or piece collected after a fall/found of a specific meteorite fall. If you cut it, each of the fragments came from the main mass, and the largest of them is now the main mass... unless a the 2nd larger specimen of that fall/find is larger than all of the fragments, then the main mass is gone forever. So the main mass is the largest fragment of the largest specimen collected if it's still the largest known piece of that fall/find. Going now to desert meteorites, if you are 100% sure that two specimens came from the same strewnfield, and they are paired, then only one of them should have a main mass. In paired DAG's, for example, where you know where they were collected, only one of the pieces should be the main mass (so, several DAG numbers, one main mass). In most of the NWA, as they are bought from nomades this is almost impossible to be told, so each NWA number have it's own main mass. Of course the meaning for a collector of having a main mass from a NWA and one from other locality is not the same. This year I was able to obtain the first main mass from a Fall in my collection (according to my definition). It was a 1.4kg specimen of Arbol Solo, fall on 1954, Sept 11. The TKW until last year was 899g. Now it went to 2.3kg. Now the add, I will have a few specimens taken from the main mass at Tucson. Less than 150g was cut and no more will be cut from it (preserving the main mass in my collection). Most of the rest of this meteorite is locked or lost. If you want to see them just stop at my room. Eduardo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:13:13 + Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Since you are collecting opinions I'll give you 2 of them, my 2 cents worth so a penny each. First the cynical one - Buyers like to own main masses, sellers like to sell things. The looser the defination of main mass the more there are to sell. Buyers are happy, sellers are happy. Second my personal defination. If a stone isn't at least 1/2 the total mass recovered from the fall it isn't a main mass. Since the total mass recovered from the fall is unknown for NWA meteorites none of them qualify. That defination eliminates 98% of the so called main masses, Norton County being one of the few qualifiers. Buyers won't like that defination because it makes main masses virtually impossible to own. Sellers won't like it because it removes a sexy selling label. But it makes it easy for me to put together sales pages. I have never owned a main mass by my defination and have therefore never listed a meteorite as a main mass at my web site. It is my personal defination which I don't expect to see adopted in the meteorite community, but it suffices for me. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
I basically endorse the below statement by John. As for how the NomCom uses the term main mass, it is applied to the entity being described in the writeup. These writeups in the Bulletin are very specific about what material is to get each name. Main mass refers back to that. If somebody wanted to put a statement in the Bulletin like NWA 7554 is the main mass of the NWA 6788 pairing group, I would also find that to be an appropriate usage, and could vote to accept it for the Bulletin. I do differ with John on one minor point: we don't use the term only for the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned to a particular number. We would also use it to describe the remaining largest mass of a single stone that has been cut or broken up for distribution. I also must take umbrage at the statement made in Doug's post referring to the not especially peer reviewed appendix of MAPS. All articles in the supplement issue get full peer review. Only the MetSoc abstracts do not. The MetBull is highly peer-reviewed. The Editor and Assoc. Editors produce writeups, and a committee of 13 scientists review each one. Many writeups also go out for review by scientists outside the NomCom. I realize that this is not a traditional peer review conducted by a independent editor, but it is a very, very high degree of peer scrutiny. jeff At 12:46 AM 1/20/2006, Arizona Skies Meteorites wrote: As most of us are aware, NWA numbered meteorites are not in any way analogous to meteorites coming out of a well characterized strewn field-that's precisely why they are given NWA numbers. Those that understand the NWA numbering system also understand that the main mass of one NWA numbered group may or may not be the 'biggest piece' of the presumed fall. In fact, the use of the term 'main mass' in respect to NWA meteorites has nothing to do with the 'fall' per se, but rather is the term used to refer to the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned a particular NWA number. Even the pairing of meteorites does not, and can not guarantee that they are part of the same fall. This is especially true in the case of northwest Africa where meteorites are collected over a vast area with little or no record of their coordinates. Since it will never be known whether paired NWAs are actually part of the same fall or not, it seems that the term main mass is appropriate unless one can unambiguously state with complete certainty that two NWA numbers are from the same fall. This can not be done without a precise record of coordinates. In our opinion this discussion over the use of main mass is just a matter semantics, and has nothing to do with science what-so-ever. That said we can probably bring this thread to an end. Cheers -John Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: New Stardust Images / terrestrial
Hi Ron and All You forgot to mention the noble gas mass spectrometer lab and the light gas gun as well. Here is a pic of Everett Gibson and myself in front of the electron microsocpe that is not only currently scanning a piece of ALH84001, but is also the one with which many of the famous pictures of that stone were taken. http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/meneverett.jpg In case you are unaware of who Everett Gibson is, here is a link to more info: http://ares.jsc.nasa.gov/People/gibsoneverett.html Cheers, Martin On 1/19/06, Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:32:30 -, mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of people in the room with the probe, there was a short piece on my local news last night about a South Carolina middle-school science teacher who had been one of 30-something people chosen to fly to Huston and see the Stardust probe in person. There must have been some sort of essay-writing contest or something. There's a Stardust Educator's Conference this week, and there are about 60 people in the group. Today, they were given a tour of some of the laboratories at Johnson Space Center, including the Genesis lab, the Lunar Rock viewing area, and an electron microsope where Everett Gibson and some of his colleagues were analyzing ALH84001! Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Its pure and simple misrepresentation. Illegal too. Doesn't matter if you're selling meteorites or licorice sticks. You have to be truthful in your descriptions to stay within the bounds of the law. Gary On 19 Jan 2006 at 19:20, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I noticed some dealers and collectors are calling pairings that are smaller than the largest piece of a pairing series the Main Mass. An example would be if an 8 kilogram Martian meteorite was called DAG 476. Then somebody comes up with a smaller 1 kilogram meteorite named DAG XXX which was found to paired to DAG 476. Then the dealer sells the 1 Kilogram DAG XXX as a Main Mass. I think this practice is misleading and dishonest. I think the term Secondary Largest Mass may be more appropriate. What do you think? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm
Walter, I have 400 kilos of it sitting in my garage, what do you want, small individuals? I have a whole box of them that I have seperated. Mike __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson
WOW, the University of Arizona has sunk to the level of appointing a meteorite dealer as curator of their collection? Why not let Halliburton run the Senate? Mike - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:30 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson This was taken from Michael Blood's website: BRIEF LECTURES AVAILABLE PRIOR TO AUCTION: The following lectures will be given at the end of the hall from 6PM to 7PM. Any and all are welcome. (The hall is large enough that those not interested in the lectures, will be undisturbed and can concentrate on the auction lots, friends and food). Sponsored by: Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 6:00 The Southwest Meteorite Center - Marvin Killgore 6:15 The Importance of Meteorites - Dante Lauretta U of A 6:30 The Classification of Meteorites - Linda Welzenbach USNM 6:45 The Nomenclature of Meteorites - Harold Connolly, Jr. AMNH COORDINATED BY: Marvin Killgore Curator of Meteorites Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 1415 N. 6th Avenue Tucson, AZ 85705 Tel: 520 626-1294 Fax: 520 626-1973 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Dr Grossman, Thanks, this is exactly what I have been saying. If you are going to give it a different name, then you must be able to use the term main mass with the pairing. I personally don't like the pairings being named (take for example NWA 801. I go to Morocco often, and I go right to the strewnfield outside Zagora every time I go. I immediately get besieged by children and people who all recognize me and run up selling me whatever piece of this CR2 meteorite they have found over the previous few months in my absence. I sell them all as NWA 801, since it is the same meteorite, I do not submit them all for naming, I would have over 500 new CR2 meteorites if I did). When I get a meteorite, like NWA 2046 Martian for example, it gets cut up and the largest piece is the main mass, some lucky owner has the bragging rights to claim that they own the largest remaining piece. No pairings have ver been found of it, so no issue there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass I basically endorse the below statement by John. As for how the NomCom uses the term main mass, it is applied to the entity being described in the writeup. These writeups in the Bulletin are very specific about what material is to get each name. Main mass refers back to that. If somebody wanted to put a statement in the Bulletin like NWA 7554 is the main mass of the NWA 6788 pairing group, I would also find that to be an appropriate usage, and could vote to accept it for the Bulletin. I do differ with John on one minor point: we don't use the term only for the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned to a particular number. We would also use it to describe the remaining largest mass of a single stone that has been cut or broken up for distribution. I also must take umbrage at the statement made in Doug's post referring to the not especially peer reviewed appendix of MAPS. All articles in the supplement issue get full peer review. Only the MetSoc abstracts do not. The MetBull is highly peer-reviewed. The Editor and Assoc. Editors produce writeups, and a committee of 13 scientists review each one. Many writeups also go out for review by scientists outside the NomCom. I realize that this is not a traditional peer review conducted by a independent editor, but it is a very, very high degree of peer scrutiny. jeff At 12:46 AM 1/20/2006, Arizona Skies Meteorites wrote: As most of us are aware, NWA numbered meteorites are not in any way analogous to meteorites coming out of a well characterized strewn field-that's precisely why they are given NWA numbers. Those that understand the NWA numbering system also understand that the main mass of one NWA numbered group may or may not be the 'biggest piece' of the presumed fall. In fact, the use of the term 'main mass' in respect to NWA meteorites has nothing to do with the 'fall' per se, but rather is the term used to refer to the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned a particular NWA number. Even the pairing of meteorites does not, and can not guarantee that they are part of the same fall. This is especially true in the case of northwest Africa where meteorites are collected over a vast area with little or no record of their coordinates. Since it will never be known whether paired NWAs are actually part of the same fall or not, it seems that the term main mass is appropriate unless one can unambiguously state with complete certainty that two NWA numbers are from the same fall. This can not be done without a precise record of coordinates. In our opinion this discussion over the use of main mass is just a matter semantics, and has nothing to do with science what-so-ever. That said we can probably bring this thread to an end. Cheers -John Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Main Mass
Main Mass: That´s it Ken! One day we need a group of people, who are able to sort out all the NWA-numbers and pairings. Like in all describing sciences, the first name, who was given to the material should be the one and only! This was made up for all animals and plants (and done so, since the middle of 19. cent.) and should be also done for meteorites. Ingo --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Von: AstronomicalResearchNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Main Mass and stardust Datum: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:15:58 -0600 Hi Martin and list Just a thought , it took the recovery team almost 45 minutes to find and get close to the capsule . With the surface temp at 30 degrees and some good winds it probably cooled down considerable from moment of impact . Moment of impact might have been well over 120 degrees I think . Main mass Way back when I first wrote ARN's History of Meteorites Main Mass was the largest single specimen from a meteorite find or fall . Not the largest specimen after it had been cut up after being cut up all you might have is half or a fourth or whatever is left of the Main Mass . There is only one main mass to a Fall . Fall all the specimens that hit the ground as a single EVENT from the same original origin in space . No matter how many NWA or DAG etc etc. names are given to this Event there is only one main mass. In my mind where the society has really lost it giving separate numbers to the same Fall (event) of meteorites . Don't miss my new book coming soon . ARN's Guidelines to Meteorite Classification Thank for your time .Ken Regelman Astronomical Research Network http://www.meteorites4sale.net/ Hi All, Yesterday I asked Don Brownlee about the sample return capsule compared to a meteorite, and he thinks some meteorites arrive on earth warm or hot to the touch, although admitting there is an amount of folklore in the old stories. However the Stardust SRC was not hot, nor even warm when it was recovered in Utah. Today I checked with Karen McNamara, the curation engineer who was one of the first onsight at the capsule's recovery and she told me that the surface temperature of the capsule taken with an infrared gun at the time of recovery was only 30 degrees F, about the same as the air. More food for thought. Or not. Martin PS: Hey Adam- Don showed me a pic on his computer of the huge moon and mars rocks you showed them at your meeting. Pretty cool, and pretty impressive. On 1/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Abestos Hands! Yes, one can lightly, or gently, or for a short period, handle a 60°C - 140°F object, but the threshhold for cell death is 134°F if maintained for more than a very short time. Burns will not occur, but cells (dermal and deeper tissues) will die. One reason humans can briefly handle very hot objects is the protection provided by the evaporation of skin moisture which momentarily insulates the skin. When that fails the heat must penetrate the epidermis (dead cells anyway). Your know you've gone as far as you can go when, after touching a hot object, your skin is dry and sheds a white dust (burnt epidermis). To carry a heavy (and precious) object like the capsule at 140°F without haste or the last-minute loosening of grip requires protection. Not much, but some: Nomex gloves are more than enough (widely sold for $12 a pair under the moniker the Ove-Glove). Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Unbelievable! I recommend to train upcoming NASA-reentry-capsule-recoverers in a special program. To proof cost efficency, I'll could develope such a program for only 120.000bucks. The program is: Come on, little princes and pashas, 60°C - 140F, protective gloves???! What about you helping a little at home in the household? I stongly recommend dish washing. Girly NASA: 60° - I can touch it without problems. Martin, the housewife. - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi Ron and All, I am wondering why the Stardust SRC might arrive to earth too hot to touch, yet the mantra for meteorites is they must be cold even though history is littered with witnesses claiming the stones and irons were, you guessed it, too hot to touch. Here is an excerpt from the Stardust press kit, page: 14-15: Following a normal entry,
Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson
Why not? That's a pretty wise decision in my eyes! Supposedly in a meteorite dealer many abilities meet better than in any person from the academical branch. A meteorite dealer: - overpeers the meteorite valley - knows where to get from interesting material - knows where to hunt and with which equipment - knows to reckognize uncut candidates for exotic classes - knows to get them under price - knows the importance of historical aspects of a meteorite - knows to swap them at a right trade ratio and from whom - knows to valuate meteorites - knows how to prepare specimens - knows the tricks of dealers and unserios persons in the scene - knows to save oriented meteorites from being destroyed by cutting - knows how to preserve meteorites - knows to built up a website - knows how to arrange a public exhibition - knows to starve - knows to make good pictures of meteorites - knows to awake fascination for meteorites in laymen - knows to make wind and publicity for meteorites (important for an institution to get funds) Doesn't a dealer, Mike? Buckleboo? Martin PS: Any curator job free for me? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson WOW, the University of Arizona has sunk to the level of appointing a meteorite dealer as curator of their collection? Why not let Halliburton run the Senate? Mike - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:30 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson This was taken from Michael Blood's website: BRIEF LECTURES AVAILABLE PRIOR TO AUCTION: The following lectures will be given at the end of the hall from 6PM to 7PM. Any and all are welcome. (The hall is large enough that those not interested in the lectures, will be undisturbed and can concentrate on the auction lots, friends and food). Sponsored by: Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 6:00 The Southwest Meteorite Center - Marvin Killgore 6:15 The Importance of Meteorites - Dante Lauretta U of A 6:30 The Classification of Meteorites - Linda Welzenbach USNM 6:45 The Nomenclature of Meteorites - Harold Connolly, Jr. AMNH COORDINATED BY: Marvin Killgore Curator of Meteorites Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 1415 N. 6th Avenue Tucson, AZ 85705 Tel: 520 626-1294 Fax: 520 626-1973 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson
A dealer also knows how to milk a collection dry, sell off the good things, fill it with junk, has $$$ as a driving force, whereas the Academics have the collection preservation as their driving force. I am not saying that all academics are good for curators, but a dealer is driven by money, and this is not good. I will never donate another gram to the UofA, again, I don't want my meteorites in control of a rival meteorite dealer. Mike Farmer It is also interesting that Marvin is going to do a talk at Michael Blood's auction, for all the years that it has gone on, Marvin has done nothing but whine and complain how the auction has damaged his sales and he has boycotted it, now he is doing a talk at it? Hypocritical in my opinion. - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson Why not? That's a pretty wise decision in my eyes! Supposedly in a meteorite dealer many abilities meet better than in any person from the academical branch. A meteorite dealer: - overpeers the meteorite valley - knows where to get from interesting material - knows where to hunt and with which equipment - knows to reckognize uncut candidates for exotic classes - knows to get them under price - knows the importance of historical aspects of a meteorite - knows to swap them at a right trade ratio and from whom - knows to valuate meteorites - knows how to prepare specimens - knows the tricks of dealers and unserios persons in the scene - knows to save oriented meteorites from being destroyed by cutting - knows how to preserve meteorites - knows to built up a website - knows how to arrange a public exhibition - knows to starve - knows to make good pictures of meteorites - knows to awake fascination for meteorites in laymen - knows to make wind and publicity for meteorites (important for an institution to get funds) Doesn't a dealer, Mike? Buckleboo? Martin PS: Any curator job free for me? - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson WOW, the University of Arizona has sunk to the level of appointing a meteorite dealer as curator of their collection? Why not let Halliburton run the Senate? Mike - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:30 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson This was taken from Michael Blood's website: BRIEF LECTURES AVAILABLE PRIOR TO AUCTION: The following lectures will be given at the end of the hall from 6PM to 7PM. Any and all are welcome. (The hall is large enough that those not interested in the lectures, will be undisturbed and can concentrate on the auction lots, friends and food). Sponsored by: Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 6:00 The Southwest Meteorite Center - Marvin Killgore 6:15 The Importance of Meteorites - Dante Lauretta U of A 6:30 The Classification of Meteorites - Linda Welzenbach USNM 6:45 The Nomenclature of Meteorites - Harold Connolly, Jr. AMNH COORDINATED BY: Marvin Killgore Curator of Meteorites Southwest Meteorite Center University of Arizona Department of Planetary Sciences Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 1415 N. 6th Avenue Tucson, AZ 85705 Tel: 520 626-1294 Fax: 520 626-1973 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
This is the marketyour words time ago Matteo --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:05:28 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You bring up a good point! The problem I see is that I do not believe the term Main Mass in the listings has been truly a peer reviewed subject of scientific interest in most cases, but rather a rubber stamp that has gone unstudied for the reason of having no true scientific value in the majority of cases. And it seems that the collector interest in being able to call their piece a main mass is more of an ego thing than a deep concern for the science. So maybe they should call it the Definite Ultimate Mass, abbreviation pronounced dum-ass. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
And Buehler (Swiss Met Lab), old veteran collectors, harr, like me will remember, an highly appreciated dealer and author of the still best meteorite book in German languague, was a curator. - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Didnt he also go to jail for something? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. And Buehler (Swiss Met Lab), old veteran collectors, harr, like me will remember, an highly appreciated dealer and author of the still best meteorite book in German languague, was a curator. - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
I do not know if the pallasite has anything to do with it, but I am anxiously awaiting the full details of the curatorship. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sand-crusted, polished OC slice
Hello listmembers From a donated collection I unpacked an unlabelled slice of an ordinary chondrite, with a very high quality polish. The meteorite is crusted with an up to 5 mm thick rind of sand grains, well rounded quartz mostly, cemented by oxides released from the meteorite. I assume that the slice was acquired more than 15 years ago, material looks as H4-5, W3. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Thanky for any hints Beda Hofmann -- * Dr. Beda Anton Hofmann Curator, Earth Science Department Natural History Museum Bern Bernastrasse 15 CH-3005 Bern, Switzerland Phone +41 31 350 72 40 FAX+41 31 350 74 99 e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nmbe.ch/ * __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sand-crusted, polished OC slice
Beda, I have seen a meteorite with a crust of sand from NWA that was some years ago, so I dont know which one it was. It was being sold in the USA. Of course, some Oman meteorites exhibit the same thing. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Beda Hofmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:45 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Sand-crusted, polished OC slice Hello listmembers From a donated collection I unpacked an unlabelled slice of an ordinary chondrite, with a very high quality polish. The meteorite is crusted with an up to 5 mm thick rind of sand grains, well rounded quartz mostly, cemented by oxides released from the meteorite. I assume that the slice was acquired more than 15 years ago, material looks as H4-5, W3. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Thanky for any hints Beda Hofmann -- * Dr. Beda Anton Hofmann Curator, Earth Science Department Natural History Museum Bern Bernastrasse 15 CH-3005 Bern, Switzerland Phone +41 31 350 72 40 FAX+41 31 350 74 99 e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nmbe.ch/ * __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Hello List, I remember reading recently that Marvin was suspending his selling of meteorites during his trial term as curator. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Matt Morgan wrote: I do not know if the pallasite has anything to do with it, but I am anxiously awaiting the full details of the curatorship. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Maybe it was here http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT.html Matt Jason Phillips wrote: Hello Matt and List, I wish I could find where it was that I read that, maybe someone can give us the source. I think, meaning this could be wrong, that his wife was going to continue to sell meteorites that they had in stock. Take Care, Jason Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Matt Morgan wrote: What about his other employees? I assume they would have to as well...? Matt Jason Phillips wrote: Hello List, I remember reading recently that Marvin was suspending his selling of meteorites during his trial term as curator. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Matt Morgan wrote: I do not know if the pallasite has anything to do with it, but I am anxiously awaiting the full details of the curatorship. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
What about his other employees? I assume they would have to as well...? Matt Jason Phillips wrote: Hello List, I remember reading recently that Marvin was suspending his selling of meteorites during his trial term as curator. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Matt Morgan wrote: I do not know if the pallasite has anything to do with it, but I am anxiously awaiting the full details of the curatorship. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Sand-crusted, polished OC slice
Whoever sent the gorgeous picture of earth (?) being pelted with meteorites, please resend the link. I made it my background photo, but it was accidentally erased this morning. Thanks! Anita __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Yeah, and his wife is the new dealer. What a scam. I guess Marvin will not be present in his room in Tucson then? Something stinks here. - Original Message - From: Jason Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. Hello List, I remember reading recently that Marvin was suspending his selling of meteorites during his trial term as curator. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Matt Morgan wrote: I do not know if the pallasite has anything to do with it, but I am anxiously awaiting the full details of the curatorship. Matt Michael Farmer wrote: Matt, that was also a different time, Nininger was the pioneer in meteoritics, before him, really nobody in the USA cared much for them, so without him, meteorites would have always taken back burner. It is clear from reading Nininger's books, which I do often, that he cared for meteorites more than anyone. This is a different time, real money is involved, and commercial dealers have NO PLACE in being curator of a university collection. Honorary position is fine, but it seems Marvin has been given the gold key. I wonder if Fukang has anything to do with it? Does Uof A know that they are holding a stolen treasure from China? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Matt Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control. One of the Gods of meteoritics, H.H. Nininger was also a dealer named curator of the Colorado Museum of Natural History. I am not saying I agree with the UofA decision, and I understand Mike's viewpoint entirely, but the precedent has been set. The difference here may be the fact that Nininger stopped dealing once appointed as curator. Is this the case for the SW-Meteorite Lab? If it is, then fine, give him a chance. If not, then something is terribly wrong. Matt Morgan Michael Farmer wrote: The more I think of this, the more outraged I am. I have donated tens of thousands of $$$ of meteorites to the UofA, and now they have been turned over to the control of a meteorite dealer. I wonder if some of them will be submitted at the auction in Tucson? This is in my opinion a huge conflict of interest. How can they do that? Why not put Christies in charge of the Smithsonian art collection, and Butterfields in charge of the American Museum of Natural History? When did Universities start doling out the job to commercial dealers? Is anyone outraged at this? No more donations to the UofA for me, I might find my Moon and Mars rocks on http://www.meteorite-lab.com/. This is total bunk, I guess museums are for sale. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- === Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA http://www.mhmeteorites.com ebay id: mhmeteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Main Mass of Fall of Find
No way, Main Mass is the biggest piece of a Fall or Find. Every new classification (-number) has its so called Main Mass. When cut, the slices are FROM the Main Mass, but the MM itself will get lost. No more MM when cut, because MM referes to the Find or Fall, not to hundreds of slices. just a thought Stefan For me the main mass its the biggest piece survive after cutting etc... Matteo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UofA giving collection to dealer control.
Hmmm Henry Augustus, wasn't he a kind of dealer too, didn't he put the FieldsMuseum a bug in the ear to found a meteorite collection? Hehe, as a curator-dealer I would rather do it other way round, not to milk the collection, but to sell them my meteorites?? Let's see pre-judgments never make sense. Meow __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lectures in Tucson
At 09:22 AM 20/01/2006, you wrote: WOW, the University of Arizona has sunk to the level of appointing a meteorite dealer as curator of their collection? Why not let Halliburton run the Senate? Mike I thought they already did ! Andre -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 20/01/2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: a new Quiz - part 4 - solution
Dear Ken, it does not matter, thanks for your reply and keeping a fair friendship. So please stay tuned (to all also) for a next challenge of a new quiz I am preparing (maybe in February). I think it is a process to learn - a process I also have gone through along my passion of collecting and understanding meteorites (speaking of my own experiences). I just want to share my experiences to our community. ...and especially to demonstrate how similar meteorite impacts and their traces are to see in extraterrestrial and terrestrial witnesses... all the best to you all, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: AstronomicalResearchNetwork [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:26 PM To: Christian Anger Subject: Re: a new Quiz - part 4 - solution Hi Christian Sorry to bother you as I have already said once. Not much for jokes . Life has been hard lately . I should laugh more. Best Regards Ken Regelman - Original Message - From: Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AstronomicalResearchNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:58 AM Subject: Re: a new Quiz - part 4 - solution Hi Ken, I never called this one meteoritic - when did I write that ? I wrote it is achondritic which is true , because every terrestrial rock is achondritic because it does not contain chondrites - don't you understand jokes ? Christian Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA - Original von: AstronomicalResearchNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Christian Question in quiz 5 you gave this picture of which I replied it looked like mica schist but you said it was meteoritic . Am I wrong or isn't this material terrestrial material that has been melted and modified by a meteoritic impact , therefore the material is not meteoritic but impact ejecta . At the point you called this material meteoritic I stopped the quiz . If you are correct the tree bark at Tunguska could be called meteoritic . I am getting off my merry go round . Sorry to bother you . You have a nice day ..Ken Regelman Astronomical Research Network PS Since we are all made of stardust then in some way we are all meteoritic .searching for our origins . Hi all, so here's part 4 of the new Quiz a new the solution: The first pic Quiz_05 is Melt-Breccia from the Paasselka Impact Structure (Finland) Of course an Achondrite, because it is no chondrite ;-) but looks very similar to an Eucrite like the second pic Quiz_06 which is DaG 443, a highly shocked brecciated polymict Eucrite. Some of you have been very good in guessing. Those have been Adam Hupe, James Tobin and Ingo Herkstroeter. Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --- Versendet durch aonWebmail (webmail.aon.at) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Dr. Jeff G. writes: All articles in the supplement issue get full peer review. Only the MetSoc abstracts do not. The MetBull is highly peer-reviewed. The Editor and Assoc. Editors produce writeups, and a committee of 13 scientists review each one. Many writeups also go out for review by scientists outside the NomCom. I realize that this is not a traditional peer review conducted by a independent editor, but it is a very, very high degree of peer scrutiny. There is no argument here. Instead of being solely a knee-jerk reaction, Dr. Grossman even anticipated correctly what I would logically reply regarding traditional peer review, and then replied to that. The traditional gold standard in science is known as _Independent_ Peer Review, and includes the concept of Reproducibility. This is what I meant by not especially peer reviewed process, and that was recognized in the anticipated reply. I shouldn't have left this open to interpretation and should have just said Independent Peer Review Process, as I realize the possibility of alternate interpretations of what I said. In the Meteoritical Sciences, there are severe restrictions on the distribution of material in many cases, not to mention access to equipment. The consensus of the scientific community with access to both is to follow the process Dr. Grossman describes is the generally accepted standard for this specialized group of scientists. My comments were in a specific context, and in the specific context of an overly spirited attack by one respectable list member on another. Given the situation, the MetSoc process is administered in an excellent, efficient, professional and admirable manner regarding the important scientific questions in the field. It is administered by top-notch and ethical scientists, one of which happens to be Dr. Grossman himself. While the quality of the science is not at issue -it is usually impeccable- all review processes have their limitations. In this case, we were in the discussion regarding main mass. There has never been a reason for a scientific study of the linguistic usage of main mass, and historically it has some very important precedents. Dr. Grossman also was open to alternate uses such as main mass of a group of paired meteorites, a minor but important qualification. Eric summed it up best with his post, the commercial vs. the personal view. Other views are: views of committees and other groups of the interested. Many committees seek to standardize application of terms in the public use within the scientific community. As a scientific editorial board, questions of scientific merit are all fair game for the committee, even if the committee is not an independent function. However, the jurisdiction of scientific committees traditionally has not included the charge of clearing up ambiguity relating to non-scientific issues of this popular and ingrained nature. This debate on main mass is still here and as Rob mentioned will be around for a while. It is a hollow scientific issue generally without scientific content. One other astronomical committee comes to mind, wrestling with a similar question: Is Pluto a Planet? Alternately, if a scientist calls Vesta or Ceres small planets, this possibly could pass the PNAS independent peer review process fine (though the word minor likely would be swapped in). The real concern is a commercial concern, and thus a more appropriate body to take it on would be the IMCA, even if they took a page from the MetSoc for guidance. The IMCA still would be expressing an opinion as an interest group and the debate wouldn't be solved. But its members would create a convention which is a meaningful issue relating to the trade and sale of meteorites. Regarding another comment I made, it truly should be a separate question to which I do not know the answer: If a meteorite is classified as L5 S2, and then another independent peer reviewed work elsewhere decides it is an L5 S3, or something even more different, what are the transparent, reproducible, and peer reviewed actions that follow which will be published by the Met Soc to challenge or augment the work of the original publication? And in a practical sense how well does this work given that the Met Soc is the de-facto authority on integrity of the World Meteorite Database (with a little help from the British Museum, a certain commercial software, and a certain dedicated German collector, and others)? Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Main Piece !
Uff List, what a discussion, never expected that to be such an issue, as in most cases with sanity and reason the obvious becomes evident and if I understand right, we are argueing about, whether we are allowed to stick a label onto a stone, where is written the very words main mass! If this is such a drama, invent other more specific expressions for your labels. Big chunk Largest mass of all Main stone of all known pairings or write a little sentence for explanation on the back of the label. Gosh, Demokrit has 30 stones, cuts them down, biggest first, arrives at the smallest, has then already the 30iest main mass of the fall, before he starts to cut down the cuts any quibbler here to agree, that a meteorite has only one main mass, but which could be one of an infinite number of different cuts of that stone(s) (-1 for the relativists) ?? Again Gosh: How many kgs has the largest Pultusk? 9kg? 2 tons felt. What about the size of the largest Canyon Diablo? 0,5t? Tkw - old estimations 30tons, collected much more in following decades, railwail cars' loads fused in. Largest Allende 100kg and broken in pieces hitting the ground, 2 or 3 tons came down. That impresses me not much. More Gosh: Dealer A,B,C-G buy the very same material from the very same source - 7-20 numbers (if they buy later more, when the stuff has sold well). Horse-sense help! Main Mass is a function of tkw (quiet, I'm not ready yet) and time. Proposal: Main Mass should be - to preserve the habitual languague use - such a big whopper! A main chunk of a fall or a find! At least 51 percent of the tkw. Tkw is the sum of the weight of all pieces, which where once known (for the case larger amounts where lost) and which will be known in future (Arnold found the main mass of Brenham, the old main mass isn't the main mass anymore, and if he will find another even larger chunk, that will be the main mass.) Main mass can be assigned only to one very stone. If it's brought in the slaughterhouse, sorry then the main mass was cut and neither the largest torso, nor the next largest individual deserves the term main mass. Pultusk, Allende, Canyon, Sikhote-Alin - sorry they have no main masses. What do they have then? They have, TATAAH, a Main Piece ! The largest of the many, many pieces recovered, which is by far smaller than the tkw. Now we come to the desert! Why such a hurry? Let your NWA-numbers have Main Pieces ! We simply don't know yet, whether and which piece can turn later into a Main Mass. Be patient. Wait 3 years more until quite the last stone has left Sahara and then it's not in your hands, we have to see if the scientists are in a mood or see any scientifical gain in looking, which stones are paired and which not. I guess, this could happened at least with the rarest types. Then after 30 or 70 years, we can make the summary, which numbers belong together and if in such a group of paired numbers, there is a fat stone, which weighs more than the rest of the group together, then we have a Main Mass. Seigh, I fear that concept is to simple, to be accepted by a majority Buckleboo! Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stardust Sample Return Press Kit
Hello All, this part of the 40-page Stardust Sample Return Press Kit ( http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press_kits/stardust-return.pdf ) might be of special interest for us: Science Objectives The purpose of the Stardust mission is to expand the knowledge of comets by flying a spacecraft through the coma of Comet Wild 2, collecting samples from the comet, and returning those samples to Earth for laboratory analysis. Additional objectives include collecting and returning interstellar particles, imaging the comet nucleus, and in situ analysis of comet particles. The mission’s primary goal was to collect samples of a comet’s coma and return them to Earth. In addition, interstellar dust samples were also gathered en route to the comet. Laboratory investigation of the returned samples using instruments such as electron microscopes, ion microprobes, atomic force microscopes, synchrotron microprobes and laser probe mass spectrometers will allow examination of cometary matter and interstellar grains at the highest possible level of detail. Advances in microanalytical instruments provide unprecedented capabilities for analysis on the micron and submi- cron level, even to the atomic scale for imaging. These instruments will provide direct information on the nature of the actual particles that initiated the formation of the Sun and planets 4.6 billion years ago. They will pro- vide a highly intimate view of both pre-solar dust and solar nebula materials that exist- ed at the very edge of the solar system at the time of its formation. Such materials will be compared with primitive meteorites and interplanetary dust samples to understand how solids that built the solar system were formed. One of the most important aspects of the mission is that it will provide materials from the edge of the solar system to be compared with primitive materials that formed in the inner solar system and are pre- served in meteorites from the asteroid belt. The ability to compare the ancient aster- oidal materials that formed just beyond the orbit of Mars with the cometary solids that accreted near Pluto will provide fundamental insight into the materials, processes and environments that existed during the origin and early evolution of the solar system. The Stardust mission is also expected to return interstellar grains formed around other stars. These will include both grains that assimilated into comets during their formation as well as dust from the galaxy that is currently passing the Sun. Interstellar grains are generally studied by astronomical techniques capable only of revealing general physi- cal properties such as size and shape. The recent discovery and study of rare interstel- lar grains preserved in meteorites and interplanetary dust has shown that they contain excellent records about the nature of their parent stars, including details of the complex nuclear reactions that occur within the stars. Most of the interstellar grains that have been identified in meteorites are grains that formed in gas flows from carbon-rich stars such as red giants and what are called AGB stars. It is expected Stardust will collect grains produced by star types that are major sources of interstellar dust. 28 Comets are now known to contain large quantities of volatiles, including organic com- pounds, as well as a rich variety of microparticles of various types (pure organic par- ticles, silicates, sulfides and mixed particles) with sizes ranging as low as submicron diameters. Organic particulates actually consist of several sub- populations, which can be described based on the elements that they are made up of. These include particles containing: Hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen Hydrogen, carbon and oxygen Hydrogen and carbon Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen and oxygen, with and without magnesium (termed “CHON” particles) Since comets are rich in water and other volatiles, it has been postulated that they carried to Earth elements critical to the origin of life. The study of cometary material is essential for understanding the formation of the solar system and the role of organic matter from interstellar sources. Astronomers have identified some 60 compounds in interstellar clouds, three-fourths of which are organic. (“Organic” means that the com- pound is carbon-based, but not necessarily biological in origin.) There is compelling evidence that four of the first five interstellar molecules detected by astronomers are present in comets, and the fifth might be also. The volatiles and silicates that appear to be in comets also are found in interstellar clouds. How the elements necessary for life entered the solar system, were trans- formed by solar system processes, were distributed among planetary bodies, and what molecular and mineral forms they took during this history are questions of major impor- tance for
[meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
and this close many voices Matteo --- D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by them in Tucson? Enquiring minds want to know. Surely you can understand our concern. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Howdy I think I understand the concern, and I can sum it up in two words: sour grapes. Marvin is an extraordinarily knowledgeable meteorite expert whom I would gladly work with any day. UA is lucky to have him. Cheers, MDF Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by them in Tucson? Enquiring minds want to know. Surely you can understand our concern. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking out of your rear end? I don't know you, so what do you think you know about me? Do you find a commercial dealer being put in charge of an academic collection not to be a conflict of interest? I now see they say he wont sell meteorites, WOW, his wife will do all the selling. Some embargo that is. The only sour grapes I have is that I have given literally 10s of thousands of $$$ in meteorites to the UofA (with paperwork to prove it) and I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Howdy I think I understand the concern, and I can sum it up in two words: sour grapes. Marvin is an extraordinarily knowledgeable meteorite expert whom I would gladly work with any day. UA is lucky to have him. Cheers, MDF Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by them in Tucson? Enquiring minds want to know. Surely you can understand our concern. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:18:52 +0100 (CET), M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents What dwindling supply? Where are they dwindling to? Just because they are in private hands, they no longer exist? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer Wow, that was easy. MDF Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Very Large Falling Star Last Night in the GA. sky......
Hello All, I was just going to ask anyone who lives in GA if they saw a HUGE falling star that cam very close to earth last night at approximately 10:55 PM?. I saw it as I was getting on the 400S ramp in Alpharetta,GA. I have never seen such a sight in my life!!. It was VERY large and didn't dissipate until the last minute!!. Thanks everyone!!. It was very clear last night and the temp was 44 degrees. Regards, Mark __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Is that concept difficult for you? You seem to be educated so I think it made sense. How many meteorites have you donated to the UofA? I thought so. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer Wow, that was easy. MDF Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
For the moment you are the unique against Marvin Killgore, no others in this list...is not strange for you? I have know personaly the wife of Marvin in Munich years ago, and I have find a very good person. Matteo --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking out of your rear end? I don't know you, so what do you think you know about me? Do you find a commercial dealer being put in charge of an academic collection not to be a conflict of interest? I now see they say he wont sell meteorites, WOW, his wife will do all the selling. Some embargo that is. The only sour grapes I have is that I have given literally 10s of thousands of $$$ in meteorites to the UofA (with paperwork to prove it) and I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
At least everyone has to agree, that their pictorial catalogues of specimens and thin sections are not only highly educational, but simply the best meteorite picture books published. Would be great if they could do smth similar for the UAz collection. - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Howdy I think I understand the concern, and I can sum it up in two words: sour grapes. Marvin is an extraordinarily knowledgeable meteorite expert whom I would gladly work with any day. UA is lucky to have him. Cheers, MDF Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by them in Tucson? Enquiring minds want to know. Surely you can understand our concern. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
I guess you missed all the other emails. I am not against Marvin Killgore, I am against a commercial dealer taking control of a University collection. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center For the moment you are the unique against Marvin Killgore, no others in this list...is not strange for you? I have know personaly the wife of Marvin in Munich years ago, and I have find a very good person. Matteo --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking out of your rear end? I don't know you, so what do you think you know about me? Do you find a commercial dealer being put in charge of an academic collection not to be a conflict of interest? I now see they say he wont sell meteorites, WOW, his wife will do all the selling. Some embargo that is. The only sour grapes I have is that I have given literally 10s of thousands of $$$ in meteorites to the UofA (with paperwork to prove it) and I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
It's a very simple concept, actually. Marvin was given this honor and you weren't, and now you're engaging in personal attacks and slander because you're feeling picked on. We're wearing out the meaning of the word simple here. Donating meteorites to the UA collection was a very good thing. My suggestion is to match the magnaminity of this gesture with a measure of respect for the ability and veracity of the people whose care you placed them in. Clearly you must have believed in these traits or else you wouldn't have handed over the meteorites to begin with. Cheers, MDF Is that concept difficult for you? You seem to be educated so I think it made sense. How many meteorites have you donated to the UofA? I thought so. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer Wow, that was easy. MDF Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
--- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: I guess you missed all the other emails. I am not against Marvin Killgore, I am against a commercial dealer taking control of a University collection. Michael Farmer And why? You have the terror this person take all pieces in the collection of the University and sale all? You have not idea, probably, a very interested person on the meteorite world type Marvin is good to give only a well way to this collection? Even if I trenches called to direct a meteorite collection in a italian museum, is a my dream, give to the meteorite argument born in a country where the interest on this is at the zero in the scientific community here in Italy.trade the tons of double meteorites in the italian collections for take new pieces for the collection, build meteorite exhibitions in Italy and many other ideas.I am doing it in small, with my meteorite exhibitions, with conference etc... my book on meteorites have sold over 500 copy in few time, and this is well why it means the meteorite argoument its under born in Italy. For me, Killgore give only a good work to the University Collection Matteo M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Marc, you couldn't be more wrong. Sorry you feel that way, it shows that you break things down to the most simple factors, so anytime anyone has a problem with something, under your terms, it means they are jealous? I would not want to be a curator. Not interested. As a dealer and a collector, I think we need separation between scientists who curate things for the future, and those who sell them for profit, now UofA has mixed the two. I think this is a terrible move. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center It's a very simple concept, actually. Marvin was given this honor and you weren't, and now you're engaging in personal attacks and slander because you're feeling picked on. We're wearing out the meaning of the word simple here. Donating meteorites to the UA collection was a very good thing. My suggestion is to match the magnaminity of this gesture with a measure of respect for the ability and veracity of the people whose care you placed them in. Clearly you must have believed in these traits or else you wouldn't have handed over the meteorites to begin with. Cheers, MDF Is that concept difficult for you? You seem to be educated so I think it made sense. How many meteorites have you donated to the UofA? I thought so. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Marc, what sour grapes would there be? Can you tell us or are you talking I don't like it being put in the hands of another dealer. Michael Farmer Wow, that was easy. MDF Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center
Hi All, Since there seems to be some controversy over the situation, as the sponsor of the Auction hosting lectures by the U of A Southwest Meteorite Center I thought it appropriate to share some of my perspective on the situation and motivation for having them as guests at the auction center. There are a number of things I think are at play here and I would like to be very candid in sharing them: I, too, was initially shocked to hear Marvin Killgore had been hired to be curator of meteorites for the U of A Southwest Meteorite Center. I had always perceived Marvin to be one of the most competitive oriented of all the meteorite dealers I know. However, in talking with Marvin, he had obviously changed hats and was clearly no longer thinking as a dealer at all. Instead, I heard his entire focuse placed upon on the goals of the U of A SWMC (I will leave that for Marvin to express at his lecture introducing same at the auction. Hopefully, he will include what they told him when he initially expressed they might want to hire someone with a stronger academic background. I found their rationale compelling, but I don¹t want to steal any thunder from his upcoming lecture). I don't know how many of you know this, but Marvin is (was) the only dealer I knew who had earned approval to classify meteorites. His photo of all meteorite types became an instant text on meteorites. He told me he was out of the commercial end of the business and Kitty would be handling any residual commercial activity related to the remaining material held by his business. (Later, that was clarified to mean exclusively the completion of any commercial deals initiated prior to the time he accepted the position with the U. of A. - the room in Tucson with be devoted to the U of A Southwest Meteorite Center, exclusively and not to meteorite sales) When I mentioned earlier that Marvin was one of the most competition oriented of all dealers, I can add to that that in all the years I had interacted with him he was always completely honest with me - even about his feelings of competition - he was the dealer most resentful of my auction in Tucson, for instance, and never hesitated to tell me so. In addition, he always treated me fairly in every deal we made, always coming through with whatever he had agreed to do. Therefore, I had no trouble buying that he was now coming from a completely different orientation. I tend to trust people until/unless they give me a reason not to trust them. Marvin has never given me that reason and I have known him a long time. Therefore, I encourage you to extend that same trust until/unless he behaves differently. I encourage you to come and hear what Marvin and his colleagues have to say about the U of A SMC, their vision and goals. Judge for yourself. As for Mike Farmer's reaction, he should not be judged harshly here. On the face of it, such questions about conflict of interest, etc, are completely natural. It must have come as a shock to hear another dealer was taking over the care of tens of thousands of dollars of material you had donated to an institution. It is unfortunate he did not receive this information in a more comprehensive manor and I regret any roll I had in contributing to the shock he must have experienced hearing about it indirectly. There is much talk of the various sectors of the meteorite community being inter supportive, between scientists and dealers, collectors and finders, etc. This support was my motivation in hosting the talks by the U of A SMC in the hall prior to the auction. In addition, I believe it gives many collectors the opportunity to hear some of the scientific sides of the meteorite equation and the opportunity to ask questions. Just thought it appropriate I let you all know my thinking on this. Best wishes, Michael on 1/20/06 1:44 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least everyone has to agree, that their pictorial catalogues of specimens and thin sections are not only highly educational, but simply the best meteorite picture books published. Would be great if they could do smth similar for the UAz collection. - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Howdy I think I understand the concern, and I can sum it up in two words: sour grapes. Marvin is an extraordinarily knowledgeable meteorite expert whom I would gladly work with any day. UA is lucky to have him. Cheers, MDF Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by
[meteorite-list] Donald Brownlee: I am not a crook
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/science/space/20stardust.html?ex=1295413200en=3d2b662a1d3efeacei=5088partner=rssnytemc=rss Richard Nixon impersonation, or trying to give the bunny suits bunny ears? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Let Them Eat Cake
Hi All, At the risk of spurring another another controversy Twink Chris Monrad and Jim Kriegh will be gifting the meteorite community at the Tucson Auction with the beautiful Gold Basin Birthday Cake immediately following the lectures - at 7:05 PM. This should give everyone time to admire its beauty, then cut that sucker up and gobble it down before the bidding begins at 7:30 sharp. Thanks to Twink, Chris Jim for their thoughtful generosity. And a big HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Geoff Steve! Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Marvin Kilgore's position at U of A
I would like to congratulate Marvin Kilgore on his position at U of A. I know that this is a dream come true for Marvin and I am aware that he has worked hard to develop and fill this new position. I think that it is a powerful move in the right direction for all of us in the Meteoritical Society. It is a strong sign of good things to come in this newmillennium for Meteoritics. I think that Marvin has done a lot to encourage collaboration between science and the private sector. I for one wish him the best of success in his new endeavor and I am looking forward to the up coming lectures and hopefully more public outreach programs in the future that will enhance all our lives in this wonderful world of Rocks from Space! Cheers, Edwin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Let Them Eat Cake - correction
What would life be without Michael correcting one of his countless errors. Sorry, that should have read the cake is being graciously provided by Twink and Larry Monrad and Jim Kriegh - though Chris will likely be there, too. Sorry, Larry - Michael on 1/20/06 3:33 PM, Michael L Blood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, At the risk of spurring another another controversy Twink Chris Monrad and Jim Kriegh will be gifting the meteorite community at the Tucson Auction with the beautiful Gold Basin Birthday Cake immediately following the lectures - at 7:05 PM. This should give everyone time to admire its beauty, then cut that sucker up and gobble it down before the bidding begins at 7:30 sharp. Thanks to Twink, Chris Jim for their thoughtful generosity. And a big HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Geoff Steve! Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- He is not a lover who does not love forever. - Euripides (485-406BC) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sour grapes?
Dear List, Sour grapes would sound feasable! D Freeman Marc Fries wrote: Howdy I think I understand the concern, and I can sum it up in two words: sour grapes. Marvin is an extraordinarily knowledgeable meteorite expert whom I would gladly work with any day. UA is lucky to have him. Cheers, MDF Michael Blood says that his wife will be selling their meteorites. Is it me or is that really not much difference than Marvin himself selling. How convenient, he will be in the room where his meteorites are being sold? Or are no meteorites going to be sold by them in Tucson? Enquiring minds want to know. Surely you can understand our concern. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: D. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Dear Meteorite-List, Dr. Lauretta and Marvin Killgore asked me to post this message to the List. -Dolores Hill From: Dante Lauretta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:30 PM To: 'meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com' Subject: UAz Sothwest Meteorite Center Greetings meteorite enthusiasts, collectors, and dealers, In response to recent rumors, we are happy to clarify some misconceptions about the University of Arizona Southwest Meteorite Center. We have established the Southwest Meteorite Center to preserve the dwindling supply of extraterrestrial materials for future generations. This Center represents a unique collaboration between a (former) meteorite dealer and a meteorite scientist. History shows that meteorites have always been collected and always will be collected. Private collectors and dealers have made important contributions to meteorite science. We hope to address the tensions that currently exist between the commercial and scientific meteorite communities and establish a productive relationship between meteorite scientists, dealers, and collectors. Our goals are as follows: We have established an organization that will benefit both the scientific and commercial meteorite communities. We will educate future generations of meteorite scientists, dealers, collectors and the general public about the importance of studying and preserving meteorites. It is our goal to have the Southwest Meteorite Center become a leader in meteorite research and education. We intend to become a world-class meteorite repository and house one of the largest meteorite collections in the world. We will curate this material to the highest standards and ensure that it is accessible to both researchers and the general public. We aspire to provide rapid and accurate classification of any meteorite sample brought to our center. Marvin Killgore has ceased his business as a meteorite dealer. The Southwest Meteorite Lab will not be selling meteorites at the Tucson show. However, you will still have the opportunity to talk and visit with Marvin about the University of Arizona's Southwest Meteorite Center in Room 121 at the Inn Suites from Jan. 28 - Feb. 11 (9 A.M.-6 P.M.). Exquisite meteorites, posters, and educational materials will be on display. Meteorites that were donated to the University of Arizona will never be sold. In accordance with existing policy, Donor's wishes will be honored and all meteorites deposited at the University of Arizona will be used solely for public education and research. If anybody has any questions or concerns about the goals and objectives of the Southwest Meteorite Center they are strongly encouraged to contact Dante Lauretta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or Marvin Killgore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to discuss the details. Dante Lauretta Marvin Killgore Tucson, AZ Jan. 20th, 2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Donald Brownlee: I am not a crook
Hi Darren and All, I met with Don Brownlee and Scott Sanford today. They are the two PIs for Stardust. Great folks, but I had to take special precautions. One cannot be too careful you know. Here's a pic. http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/scottdonme.jpg Cheers, Martin On 1/20/06, Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/science/space/20stardust.html?ex=1295413200en=3d2b662a1d3efeacei=5088partner=rssnytemc=rss Richard Nixon impersonation, or trying to give the bunny suits bunny ears? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cuban Scientists Study Meteorite Fragments
http://www.escambray.cu/Eng/ScieTec/060120315.htm Cuban Scientists Study Meteorite Fragments (01/20/06) SANCTI SPIRITUS, Cuba- Cuban experts analyze a site near the town of Fomento in Sancti Spiritus province, where they have recently found clues of the impact of an enormous meteorite with the Earth during the Cretaceous period (about 65 million years ago). Reinaldo Rojas, head of the Limite KT project in Cuba, which is in charge of the exploration, told Escambray Digital daily that the site shows abundant material to be taken as the main point for the research. Rojas explained that after digging three meters into the rocky surface, scientists discovered meteoritic glass, small quartz grains, and sediments, as well as a fossil macrofauna and microfauna, all proofs of a collision. The scientist estimates that 65 million years ago, the town of Fomento in central Cuba was located about 500 Km from the meteorite-hit place in the Mexican Yucatan Peninsula; thereby, what its been recently detected should have been thrust by the meteorites powerful energy waves when it struck Yucatan. Its crash with the Earth unleashed high temperatures and pressures, as well as great volumes of gases identical to those of a colossal atomic explosion causing one of the largest life extinctions on the planet, he explained. Prior to this ongoing study, Cuban specialists had only records of the fallen meteoroid in rocks of western Cuban provinces from Pinar del Rio to Matanzas, and in La Loma del Capiro in Sancta Clara city. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad- Notable Auctions
For those interested.. Have a look: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmaccers531QQhtZ-1 Thanks for your attention and support ! Bob E __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stardust
Some interesting, and humourous reads at slashdot about Stardust, if you have the time... http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/20/210243 Cheers, Pete __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
