[meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Hi David and all, I'm not a geologist but I suspect that when the thinsections are made and polarized light is used to reveal the various colors (mineral make up) of the meteorite that this is in effect about the same thing as using fluorescent lighting. They also use quite an array of other systems to breakdown the meteorite into parts that are quite small and tells them chemical makeup. This is part of telling them what it is and if it is unique plus scores of other things like weathering, age and so forth. I'll let others chime in about this as I may be missing something and am talking over my head here. All my best! --AL Mitterling Quoting David Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net: Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Hi, we had last year some fun with Robert Fuchs, a collector of UV-minerals and meteorites, who has always a cabinet with fluorescent minerals at the Munich show, to check some meteorites. Pena Blanca Spring, another aubrite, displayed also a very few large fluorescent crystals. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von almi...@localnet.com Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 12:36 An: davidgunn...@fairpoint.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hi David and all, I'm not a geologist but I suspect that when the thinsections are made and polarized light is used to reveal the various colors (mineral make up) of the meteorite that this is in effect about the same thing as using fluorescent lighting. They also use quite an array of other systems to breakdown the meteorite into parts that are quite small and tells them chemical makeup. This is part of telling them what it is and if it is unique plus scores of other things like weathering, age and so forth. I'll let others chime in about this as I may be missing something and am talking over my head here. All my best! --AL Mitterling Quoting David Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net: Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
AL, David, List, I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? Yes, they do. Cheers, Bernd - Some references :-) S.W.S. McKeever, D.W. Sears (1980) Meteorites That Glow (Sky and Telescope, July 1980, pp. 14-16). Melcher C.L. (1981a) Thermoluminescence of meteorites and their terrestrial ages (GCA 45, 615-626). Melcher C.L. (1981b) Thermoluminescence of meteorites and their orbits (Earth Planet.Sci. Lett. 52, 39-54). McKeever S.W.S. (1982) Dating of meteorite falls using thermoluminescence: Application to Antarctic meteorites (Earth Planet.Sci.Lett. 58, 419). Sears D.W. et al. (1983) Chemical and Physical Studies of Type 3 chondrites - II: Thermoluminescence sensitivity of sixteen type 3 ordinary chondrites and relationships with oxygen isotopes (Proc. Lun.Planet. Sci. Conf. 14th, Part 1, J. Geophys. Res. 88, B301-B311). Haq M. et al. (1988) Thermoluminescence and the shock and reheating history of meteorites: IV. The induced TL properties of type 4-6 ordinary chondrites (GCA 52, 1679-1689). Keck B.D. et al. (1987) Chemical and physical studies of type 3 chondrites - VIII: Thermoluminescence and metamorphism in the CO chondrites (GCA 51, 3013-3021). Guimon R.K. et al. (1988) Chemical and physical studies of type 3 chondrites - IX: Thermoluminescence and hydrothermal annealing experiments and their relationship to metamorphism and aqueous alteration in type 3.3 ordinary chondrites (GCA 52, 119-127). Sears D.W.G. (1988) Thermoluminescence of meteorites: Shedding light on the cosmos (Nucl. Tracks Radiat. Meas./Int. J. Radiat. Appl. Instrum., Part D14, 5-17). P.H. Benoit et al. (1991) Thermoluminescence survey of 12 meteorites collected by the European 1988 Antarctic meteorite expedition to the Allan Hills and importance of acid washing for thermoluminescence sensitivity measurements (abs. Meteoritics 26-2, 1991, 157-160). Hasan F. A. et al. (1991) Natural thermoluminescence levels and the recovery location of Antarctic meteorites (Smithson.Contrib.Earth Sci.). P.H. Benoit et al. (1991) The natural thermoluminescence of meteorites - II. Meteorite orbits and orbital evolution (Icarus). P.H. Benoit et al. (1993) Carbon-14, thermoluminescence and the terrestrial ages of meteorites (Meteoritics, 28-2, 1993, 196-203). Yamazaki M. et al. (2001) Thermoluminescence study of shocked ordinary chondrites (MAPS 36-9, 2001, A228). Koike C. et al. (2002) Thermoluminescence of forsterite and fused quartz as a candidate for the extended red emission (MAPS 37-11, 2002, pp. 1591-1598). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Hello All, Here are some details from an abstract, Cheers, Bernd - D.W.G. Sears, P.H. Benoit, and D.G. Akridge (1999) Thermoluminescence and The Thermal History Of Meteorites (MAPS 34-4, 1999, A105, excerpts): - the TL sensitivity of unequilibrated ordinary chondrites correlates with petrographic type and thus metamorphic history - the TL sensitivity of type 3 chondrites correlates with a variety of indicators of metamorphic alteration such as mineral heterogeneity, volatile contents, and abundance of presolar grains - TL sensitivity is the basis of the widely used subdivision of type 3 ordinary chondrites into types 3.0-3.9 - cathodoluminescence (CL) studies indicate that the TL sensitivity increases during metamorphism as glass crystallizes to feldspar - the temperature and width of the induced TL peak are also related to thermal history. Thus peak temperature and width can be used for palaeothermometry. Some conclusions based on such measurements: - the CV and CO chondrites spent a longer time at lower temperatures than UOC - the TL sensitivity of the comminuted matrix of regolith breccias is lower than that of the clasts due to the destruction of crystalline feldspar. Thus the matrix- to-clast TL sensitivity ratio provides a measure of regolith maturity (similar trend observed in lunar breccias and lunar soils) - the HED meteorites, especially the eucrites, can be subdivided into petrographic types 1-6 using TL sensitivity and the types agree with those based on mineralogy. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites That Glow (Was: Ultraviolet Space Rocks?)
S.W.S. McKEEVER and D.W. SEARS (1980) Meteorites That Glow (Sky and Telescope, July 1980, pp. 14-16, excerpts): In 1802, Edward C. Howard exposed a sample of the Benares meteorite to an electrical discharge and it glowed in the dark. A. Herschel discovered that some grains from the Middlesbrough meteorite glowed distinctly when sprinkled onto a hot plate in the dark (= thermo- luminescence [TL] a result of heat stimulation). Thermoluminescence Ordinary chondrites luminesce brightly with a maximum at about 200°C; a second peak occurs at 350°C, and the color at both peaks is blue green. Aubrites are a small class of meteorites with an entirely different glow curve, with several peaks and colors ranging from blue to red. In ordinary chondrites the mineral feldspar produces the TL In aubrites, enstatite is primarily responsible. Cathodoluminescence Samples irradiated by an electron beam can glow with what is called cathodo- luminescence (CL). The electron gun and an optical microscope each point to a spot on the specimen's surface, and the result is observed directly. Most thermoluminescent minerals also turn out to be cathodoluminescent. CL is bright, so luminescent grains in the slice of a meteorite are easy to locate, and they can be photographed through the microscope. As in TL, feldspar produces most of the light, a distinctive blue green. Feldspar is an important component of ordinary chondrites and the chondrules in them. Their intricate, often beautiful structures are strikingly revealed by CL. Applications Determining the cosmic age of meteorites by spotting the red CL of chlorapatite against the blue background of feldspar and examining the nuclear fission tracks of now-extinct isotopes like plutonium 244. Determining the terrestrial age of meteorites: decrease in TL provides a means to estimate how long ago a meteorite fell. TL levels can help detect heating processes of meteoroids in space, for example: a close passage to the sun. Detecting meteorites that suffered a violent event (shock and heating attending the parent body breakup). This caused them to blacken and lose their TL and CL. Such shock-darkened meteorites seem to be much younger. -- Best wishes, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Hola to all. We have a slice of the SaH 02500 meteorite, that under ultraviolet light ( LW ) shows this fluorescent crystals : Under flahs camera light : http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/43549/2460945940100862759S600x600Q85.jpg Under UV LW light : http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/45855/2796464060100862759S600x600Q85.jpg Hasta la vista, larense --- From: altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:32:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hi, we had last year some fun with Robert Fuchs, a collector of UV-minerals and meteorites, who has always a cabinet with fluorescent minerals at the Munich show, to check some meteorites. Pena Blanca Spring, another aubrite, displayed also a very few large fluorescent crystals. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von almi...@localnet.com Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 12:36 An: davidgunn...@fairpoint.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hi David and all, I'm not a geologist but I suspect that when the thinsections are made and polarized light is used to reveal the various colors (mineral make up) of the meteorite that this is in effect about the same thing as using fluorescent lighting. They also use quite an array of other systems to breakdown the meteorite into parts that are quite small and tells them chemical makeup. This is part of telling them what it is and if it is unique plus scores of other things like weathering, age and so forth. I'll let others chime in about this as I may be missing something and am talking over my head here. All my best! --AL Mitterling Quoting David Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net: Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: New Specimens and vintage items
Dear List, Just finished some updates to my sales page - Added some FRESH Buzzard Coulee part-slices showing great chondrules, along with some antique meteorite related items and curiosities: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/Sales.html I also have some auctions ending tomorrow. Many still at 99 cents: http://shop.ebay.com/historic-meteorites/m.html There are a few Antarctic minerals that I had on hold for many months, but are available again. Thanks for taking a peek and have a great weekend! Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks
Hola larense, Nice picture you posted! It really shows clearly in dramatic graphic form that given a simple longwave UV light (UVA: 400nm-315nm) that a possibly remarkable and thought provoking image result can be achieved. Congratulations! I wonder if you've been able to determine the identity of the material in your picture that glows such a vivid royal blue color? Diamond can also produce a similar color under UVLW, as I am sure you are probably aware. Concerning the pictorial reference to the Picture of the Day Picture I mentioned in my original posting, I am beginning to realize that it may be the result of thermoluminescence heat testing rather than a classic ultraviolet reaction. It (The picture of the Day enstatite meteorite) was likely mislabeled as being an ultraviolet reaction when it was something else, entirely. A thermoluminesent glow and an utraviolet reaction are not the same thing, seems to me. I hope someone jumps in and corrects me if my understanding is either flat-out incorrect or that I may have been sorely misinformed. Yours for the revolution! Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (AD) EBAY AUCTIONS
Good afternoon list. I have 15 ebay auction ongoing. A few rarities,some not so rare,but all with buy it nows and free shipping anywhere. Someday I'll figure out how to link the ebay to this message. Auctions are under ILLINOISMETEORITES. Thanks and have a great day. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Sale 25% OFF Subscription
Hi List, 25% OFF 1 Year Subscription to Meteorite Hunting Collecting Magazine - (Only 31 Hours left) http://www.mhcmagazine.com/promotions/magazine-sale/ Advertising Sale: Inside Front Back Covers Available. http://www.mhcmagazine.com/promotions/ (Email to reserve your ad) Special AD Pricing: Inside Front or Back Cover as low as = $199 1/4 Page [FULL COLOR] (1 Issue) = $49 1/3 Page Square Ad [FULL COLOR] (1 issue) = $49 1/2 Page [FULL COLOR] (1 Issue) = $99 1/8 Page [FULL COLOR] (1 Issue) = $39 1 Column (1/4 page vertical) [TEXT AD] (1 Issue) = $99 1/4 Page [FULL COLOR] 1 Year = $249 (limit 2) See our growing updated magazine circulation/audience: http://www.mhcmagazine.com/advertising/ Contact me off-list to reserve your ad. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorite Hunting Collecting Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com P.S. Connect with MHC Magazine on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Meteorite-Hunting-Collecting-Magazine/147373358630201 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] (AD) EBAY AUCTIONS
No thanks. - Original Message - From: steve arnold stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) EBAY AUCTIONS Good afternoon list. I have 15 ebay auction ongoing. A few rarities,some not so rare,but all with buy it nows and free shipping anywhere. Someday I'll figure out how to link the ebay to this message. Auctions are under ILLINOISMETEORITES. Thanks and have a great day. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Habital Planet Discovery Announcement
I have often thought that the Star Trek term M-class planet, used to designate planets suitable for human-type lifeforms, would not be a bad way to talk about exosolar planets which might support our type of life. It implies other classes with other types of life being possible. Just my 2 dilithium crystals (do they fluoresce, I wonder :) Best! Tracy Latimer Frankly, I have always thought that we have very little business deciding what habitable means. The very term suggests that WE could inhabit the place. The notion that WE are the standard by which life should be judged is highly suspicious to me. It sounds very much like our former unjustified assumption that our planet was the center of the entire universe. Is there somewhere a team of alien astronomers going over their data on exoplanets with disappointment and crossing off the list of targets to pursue further a world that's too small, too hot, too wet, and with a significant amount of a poisonous gas in its atmosphere. They've just eliminated the Earth. It is very hard for us to conceive of life in any other terms than that of the life we know. It's difficult not to be a carbon chauvinist, as Carl Sagan called it. It's a very complex system that we know actually works. If there is another complex system that works, we wouldn't know how it could work, even if we could imagine its basics. As long as we know only one system of living things, we lack all basis for judgment. There could be thousands of forms of intelligent life in the galaxy, every one with a different physical system. Or there could be thousands of forms of intelligent life in the galaxy, every one made out of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen, and run by DNA instructions. There is no way to calculate the odds of either one. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: To: Sterling K. Webb Cc: ; Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Subject: Re: Habital Planet Discovery Announcement Hi Sterling: I hope that I am not repeating something. Too many emails on too many subjects (not all the metlist) the last few days and getting ready for a conference. One thing seems to be missing in these discussions; how the planets were detected. All of the planets in the Gliese 581 system were detected by spectroscopy. You look at a spectral line from the star and, over time it shifts to the blue and then to the red. This is the Doppler shift as the star moves toward and away from you (respectively) as it is tugged on by it companion planet. It take many orbits of the planet to verify this motion, not just one signal. The bigger the planet, the more the spectral line shifts, the easier it is to see. The closer the planet is to the star, the shorter the cycle is and the easier it is to see (if the period is a year, it takes several years to see several cycles). This obviously gets very complicated when you have multiple planets and are looking for cycles on cycles. This leads to a very important thing that seems to be left out of all of these discussions.The numbers quoted are MINIMUM masses. The Doppler shift is the shift in the direction of the viewer. These numbers assume that the planet orbits are lined up with the Earth, which would be highly unlikely. For the Gliese planetary system, the inclination of the planets is not known. If their orbits are in reality tilted by say 45 degrees, their masses would be about 1.4 times the numbers quoted. Still not bad. The distance from the star is only dependent on the mass of the star and the distance of the planet from the star (Kepler's Law, orbital period), but the mass is dependent on the inclination of the orbits relative to the Earth. Again, I hope I am not repeating others on this. Larry Not to doubt the scientific trustworthiness of the Daily Mail, but they state that the light pulse was seen December, 2008, long before it was announced that the star Gliese 581 has habitable planets in orbit around it. But Gliese 581 c, the first low mass extrasolar planet found to be near its star's habitable zone, was discovered in April 2007, and Gliese 581 b, approximately Neptune-sized and the first planet detected around Gliese 581, was discovered in August 2005. Discovered at the same time as Gliese 581 c, a third planet, Gliese 581 d, has a mass of roughly 7 Earths, or half a Uranus, and an orbit of 66.8 Earth days. It orbits just within the outer limit of the habitable zone. The fourth planet, Gliese 581 e, was announced on 21 April 2009. This planet, at an estimated minimum mass of 1.9 Earths, is currently the lowest mass exoplanet identified around a normal star. The more distant Gliese 581 f was found at the same time.
[meteorite-list] AD: ENSISHEIM 1492, ORGUEIL, L'AIGLE, WESTON, ESNANDES, ALMAHATA SITTA 2008TC3, ZAGAMI, NEW CONCORD, TAGISH LAKE MUCH MORE ENDIN ON EBAY.
Hello Listers, I have some great historic meteorites ending soon on eBay. If you have been looking for that high end meteorites, look no further. I have meteorites from the 1400's all the way up to 2008, all with a great pasts. If you looking for the first dated fall, 1492, or the great Hoax meteorite which is also the rarest meteorite, or the horse kill, I have it. But that's not all, I have many world class meteorites to offer with world class stories. I was once told that a meteorite with a history will always at the end of the day keep its value for future generations to come. A meteorite is a meteorite, but a meteorite with historic history and a legacy, will always add aura to your meteorite collection and value. Please take a look and if you have any questions please contact me and ill get back to you. Best of the Best http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 Auction style sales ENSISHEIM 1492 historic meteorite from France, vary rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669422861ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ORGUEIL meteorite 3mg, very rare historic fall-1864! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250702358067ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT WESTON - 1st USA meteorite, fell in 1807- RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669423689ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 200mg LOT with nanodiamomds,rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260661189092ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ESNANDES 1837 VERY RARE historic meteorite fall- France *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669429377ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT L'AIGLE 38mg Historic meteorite from France, 1803 rare! ***This fall proved meteorite came from space*** http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260670239836ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 58mg-nanodiamonds present, rare!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260671492079ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ALMAHATA SITTA meteorite 2008TC3 seen from space rare! Seen from Space WOW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703261366ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT CLAXTON famous meteorite fall, mailbox hitter, rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260670236347ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT MELROSE(a) meteorite- owned and examined by Nininger. *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703737089ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ZAGAMI 76mg MARTIAN/MARS meteorite with NO RESERVE *Not much left* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703265891ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT NEW CONCORD meteorite 1860-Horse killer-ASU collection! *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703290857ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT LOST CITY meteorite 1st fireball photo path in USA RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703252840ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 100mg LOT with nanodiamomds,rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260661218083ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT SYLACAUGA meteorite, Mrs. Hodges Meteorite Strike! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260644137634ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD: ENSISHEIM 1492, ORGUEIL, L'AIGLE, WESTON, ESNANDES, ALMAHATA SITTA 2008TC3, ZAGAMI, NEW CONCORD, TAGISH LAKE MUCH MORE ENDIN ON EBAY.
I have removed this email address from the mailing list. Please remove my email address from your list. On 10/2/10, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have some great historic meteorites ending soon on eBay. If you have been looking for that high end meteorites, look no further. I have meteorites from the 1400's all the way up to 2008, all with a great pasts. If you looking for the first dated fall, 1492, or the great Hoax meteorite which is also the rarest meteorite, or the horse kill, I have it. But that's not all, I have many world class meteorites to offer with world class stories. I was once told that a meteorite with a history will always at the end of the day keep its value for future generations to come. A meteorite is a meteorite, but a meteorite with historic history and a legacy, will always add aura to your meteorite collection and value. Please take a look and if you have any questions please contact me and ill get back to you. Best of the Best http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 Auction style sales ENSISHEIM 1492 historic meteorite from France, vary rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669422861ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ORGUEIL meteorite 3mg, very rare historic fall-1864! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250702358067ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT WESTON - 1st USA meteorite, fell in 1807- RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669423689ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 200mg LOT with nanodiamomds,rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260661189092ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ESNANDES 1837 VERY RARE historic meteorite fall- France *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260669429377ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT L'AIGLE 38mg Historic meteorite from France, 1803 rare! ***This fall proved meteorite came from space*** http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260670239836ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 58mg-nanodiamonds present, rare!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260671492079ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ALMAHATA SITTA meteorite 2008TC3 seen from space rare! Seen from Space WOW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703261366ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT CLAXTON famous meteorite fall, mailbox hitter, rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260670236347ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT MELROSE(a) meteorite- owned and examined by Nininger. *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703737089ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ZAGAMI 76mg MARTIAN/MARS meteorite with NO RESERVE *Not much left* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703265891ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT NEW CONCORD meteorite 1860-Horse killer-ASU collection! *Just In* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703290857ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT LOST CITY meteorite 1st fireball photo path in USA RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250703252840ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 100mg LOT with nanodiamomds,rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260661218083ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT SYLACAUGA meteorite, Mrs. Hodges Meteorite Strike! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260644137634ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] I know what it looks like...
Hi List, Thought I would share a couple pictures of a recent questionable find. I know, it looks like a piece of shrapnel. And it might just be. I found it 6 down using my Gold Bug II. I was detecting an area within a 40 acre parcel up in the pinions. It intrigued me so I put it in my pouch and brought it home to check out. I did a couple nickel tests on it and both times it produced a strawberry red color on the swab that stayed longer than 5 minutes. It doesn't seem to become a magnet it weighs 12.4 g and after doing a bulk density weighing I came up with a 7.75g/cc I tried etching a small area on it but did not see a pattern emerge. My test area might have been too small. The piece shows many small cracks on it. It has obviously been subjected to some pretty good forces to break it leaving such a small jagged piece. The shape isn't what I would consider typical for an iron; and the little bugger smells strongly like metal when handled. I soaked it in CLR for about 3 days so I could see what the surface features looked like It's interesting, especially under magnification. Makes me wish I knew what it is. Oh well, another one for the possibles pile. Mike in CO http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/mmurray_02/Sept262010Iron/IMG_1327.jpg http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/mmurray_02/Sept262010Iron/IMG_1329.jpg http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/mmurray_02/Sept262010Iron/IMG_1330.jpg http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p124/mmurray_02/Sept262010Iron/IMG_1331.jpg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites wanted list
Hello all, Looking for the following meteorites. 1) Dar al Gani 351 (1-5g) 2) Koltsovo (1-5g) 3) Vyatka (1-3g) 4) Bluff (1-5g) 5) Miles (1-5g) 6) Verkhnyi Saltov (5-10g) 7) Mifflin (1-2g) 8) Any rare Brazilian meteorite Regards, André Moutinho IMCA 2731 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] I know what it looks like. . .
Hi Mike, Odd looking specimen you got there. If it's got a specific gravity of 7.75 it falls within the range of being a piece of iron (7.3 - 7.8). I am not sure what you mean when you say after doing a bulk density weighing and coming-up with 7.5g/cc. According to Professor Randy L. Kootev, an internet expert on these kinds of measurements: In order to measure density, it is necessary to measure the volume of a rock. That's hard to do accurately. In any event, from the pictures you posted it reminds me of some sort of bullet mold. But what I don't understand is the nickel test reaction. But, then, there are many things I don't fully understand. Maybe King-o-sabi (the Lone Ranger) was casting silver bullets with it. Some chemical tests for silver can turn strongly red colored, and if there was a residue of Silver, who knows? Hi Ho Silver, Up, Up and Awa! Best regards, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks?
Off the cuff what jumps to mind is diopside. It is known in meteorites and it is commonly UV reactive..How-some-ever it is yellow in longwave and only blue in shortwave. I think augite is a longwave yellow fluorescent as well I'll have to read up on that whole Si2 O6 solid solution series. All those pyroxenes are known from meteorites. Many do fluoresce in earth rocks. Yes I scan all my meteorites for fluorescent flashes. Elton - Original Message From: gian gallo gian...@hotmail.com To: Martin A altm...@meteorite-martin.de; Met- List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 11:24:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hola to all. We have a slice of the SaH 02500 meteorite, that under ultraviolet light ( LW ) shows this fluorescent crystals : Under flahs camera light : http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/43549/2460945940100862759S600x600Q85.jpg Under UV LW light : http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/45855/2796464060100862759S600x600Q85.jpg Hasta la vista, larense --- - From: altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 13:32:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hi, we had last year some fun with Robert Fuchs, a collector of UV-minerals and meteorites, who has always a cabinet with fluorescent minerals at the Munich show, to check some meteorites. Pena Blanca Spring, another aubrite, displayed also a very few large fluorescent crystals. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von almi...@localnet.com Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Oktober 2010 12:36 An: davidgunn...@fairpoint.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? Hi David and all, I'm not a geologist but I suspect that when the thinsections are made and polarized light is used to reveal the various colors (mineral make up) of the meteorite that this is in effect about the same thing as using fluorescent lighting. They also use quite an array of other systems to breakdown the meteorite into parts that are quite small and tells them chemical makeup. This is part of telling them what it is and if it is unique plus scores of other things like weathering, age and so forth. I'll let others chime in about this as I may be missing something and am talking over my head here. All my best! --AL Mitterling Quoting David Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net: Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Airs in Canada this weekend + New US Season
Dear Listees: Greetings all. A number of our Canadian friends on the M-List asked me to post a reminder when Meteorite Men started airing in Canada. I'm pleased to announce that we are now showing on the brand new Discovery Science Canada (formerly Discovery Civilization) and there are five episodes airing tomorrow and Monday. Details are here: http://www.sciencechannel.ca/showpage.aspx?sid=28040 Steve and I just returned from the ends of the Earth yesterday and we have completed primary location shooting for Meteorite Men Season Two, which will premiere in the US one month from today -- November 2 on Science Channel and Science Channel HD. Season Two of Meteorite Men consists of eight new one-hour episodes and features many exotic international locations -- some are famous meteorite sites and a couple may be entirely new to most of you. I estimate that Steve and I have traveled at least 60,000 miles since we began work in June. Several episodes will feature the amazing new Meteorite Men motorcycle, built for us by Orange County Choppers of American Chopper fame, and Steve and I also recently guest starred on Episode Four of the current American Chopper: Senior vs. Junior season on TLC. More about the MM bike here: http://www.aerolite.org/articles/american-chopper-meteorite-bike.htm And additional info is available on our official sites: http://meteoritemen.com http://www.facebook.com/meteoritemen http://twitter.com/meteoritemen Finally, there is a US Meteorite Men marathon repeating all six Season One episodes on Science Channel this Monday, Oct. 4, commencing at 9 am. Details: http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=48.16200.126184.36729.2 I hope List members will find the new series to be informative and entertaining. And it's great to be back in Tucson after many months on the road! Respectfully, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] I know what it looks like. . .
Hi David, other interested list members, The Lone Ranger could have been up there on that mountainside in those woods, I don't know. If he had been, he would have probably had iron on his hip, which sometimes while up in the thick timber by myself, I wished I'd had on me. Pepper spray just doesn't seem to be the right thing to have somehow. A 357 or a 32 Winchester Special would be more comforting, if you know what I mean. And then too, what good is a prospector's pick with a 16 handle. Probably not much. I doubt if a mountain lion would care if his prey was carrying a 16 prospector's pick or, for that matter, if he was swinging a metal detector, eh? Anyway, by my reference to performing bulk density testing, I meant I was following the steps mentioned in the Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites by O. Richard Norton and Lawrence A Chitwood. Page 254. Step 1, weigh the specimen. Step 2, zero out the scale with a container of water sitting on it. Step 3, weigh while specimen is suspended in the water. Then divide the specimen weight by the suspended specimen weight to get the g/cc. Once I had done this, I compared the result with the chart in the Guide on page 253 just to be sure I was somewhat correct in my testing. Looked to me that the 7.75g/cc was right in the ballpark for an iron but then I have to say that I don't know fully what man-made iron average bulk density weight is so it could be man-made just the same. From what I can read on the net, man-made iron bulk density average should be comparable to an iron meteorite bulk density average. My scale is a Palmscale 8, not that that matters a whole lot but I believe it is a pretty accurate little bugger. All the best, Mike in CO On Oct 2, 2010, at 4:18 PM, David Gunning wrote: Hi Mike, Odd looking specimen you got there. If it's got a specific gravity of 7.75 it falls within the range of being a piece of iron (7.3 - 7.8). I am not sure what you mean when you say after doing a bulk density weighing and coming-up with 7.5g/cc. According to Professor Randy L. Kootev, an internet expert on these kinds of measurements: In order to measure density, it is necessary to measure the volume of a rock. That's hard to do accurately. In any event, from the pictures you posted it reminds me of some sort of bullet mold. But what I don't understand is the nickel test reaction. But, then, there are many things I don't fully understand. Maybe King-o-sabi (the Lone Ranger) was casting silver bullets with it. Some chemical tests for silver can turn strongly red colored, and if there was a residue of Silver, who knows? Hi Ho Silver, Up, Up and Awa! Best regards, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists?
Carl, I'll try to answer a few of your questions embedded within your post. --- On Fri, 10/1/10, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Richard, Martin, Very good question. It seems to me that unless you are getting paid for something. You are an amateur? Well yes and no. I've been rather jaded by working as and with a number of amateur astronomers in the field of minor planet studies. Some years ago there was a discussion on the Minor Planet Mailing List on the term 'amateur'. The discussion stemmed from the often negative connotation of that word and the fact that many 'amateurs' were and are doing very high level science from their backyards. Various terms were bandied about and one name that seemed to be used more often since then has been unpaid or volunteer astronomers. Not very appealing, but very descriptive. For the most part amateur was and remains the most popular title, in its original definition, a lover of the science. Personally I attach the name of amateur scientist, whatever the science, to a person who does real, publishable peer-reviewed level science. As David mentioned, density measurements can be done by any school child, but as far as I'm concerned, if that school child performs the measurements systematically and rigorously, in a reproducible form, striving to reduce their errors, then they deserve the title scientist, even if it is the most simple and basic research. In my mind and again this is a personal definition that no one else needs to follow, if you aren't doing science in some manner, then you really should not be afforded the title of a scientist, even as an amateur. I see no need in this definition for any monetary income in any form to be necessary for the title to be afforded a person. This speaks solely to the person's ability and performance in the field. I'm not sure if Marvin Kilgore gets paid but his name appears on a number of publications. Dean bessy gets paid. Also I seem to see others listed on papers such as Hupe and Haag etc. I can't and won't speak to these specifics other than if the primary author includes anyone as a coauthor, it is apparent that in some way their efforts, input or individual results were important to the collaborative research put forth in the paper. Being mentioned in a research paper is not the same as being listed as a coauthor. Does it take a Ph,d getting paid in that field to be a pro? Or would a Ph,d getting paid in geology work as well? A person with a PhD who is unemployed in not a professional in any field. A person without a High School diploma who obtains the bulk of their income from their research efforts is a professional. Would a certain VIP working at a scope in the Catalina's who discovered 2008 TC3 be a meteoriticist? If so, which variety? Absolutely not. As I have repeatedly told you in the past when you have asked my opinion on a number of your found rarities, I am nothing more than a basic meteorite collector. I in no way study meteorites in a scientific manner and I certainly do not perform scientific research on them at even the most basic level. I certainly enjoy my collection and I also enjoy much of the meteorite community, but I am no meteoriticist, not even an amateur one. I am a meteorite hobbyist and collector and I'm very happy at that level. The reason I put this thread forward was partly to open a discussion on the real science of meteoritics and what areas of research are open to the amateur scientist by asking those who are already performing this research to tell me (or all of us) a little more about what their research efforts are. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists?
Hi Carl Richard, no Carl, that hasn't to do with money. I understood Richard's question in that way, whether or to which degree amateurs would contribute to meteorite science. And there I said, they're bringing the stones, the asteroid belt, Moon Mars to the labs, where the research on the stones will be done then. (hence the usual division of labour of the last 2 centuries). I know, that some of these, organizing the stones, do have studied and degrees in geology, but they like rather to be addressed as meteorite-hunters. Also I wouldn't suppose, that these, who are doing the field work or are trying to nail down a fireball, hence doing lege artis something overlapping with the work of scientists, have a self-concept of being scientists. Hence if we look into the Bulletins, then we see, that this form of contribution is very important. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Richard Kowalski [mailto:damoc...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Oktober 2010 03:09 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists? Carl, I'll try to answer a few of your questions embedded within your post. --- On Fri, 10/1/10, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Richard, Martin, Very good question. It seems to me that unless you are getting paid for something. You are an amateur? Well yes and no. I've been rather jaded by working as and with a number of amateur astronomers in the field of minor planet studies. Some years ago there was a discussion on the Minor Planet Mailing List on the term 'amateur'. The discussion stemmed from the often negative connotation of that word and the fact that many 'amateurs' were and are doing very high level science from their backyards. Various terms were bandied about and one name that seemed to be used more often since then has been unpaid or volunteer astronomers. Not very appealing, but very descriptive. For the most part amateur was and remains the most popular title, in its original definition, a lover of the science. Personally I attach the name of amateur scientist, whatever the science, to a person who does real, publishable peer-reviewed level science. As David mentioned, density measurements can be done by any school child, but as far as I'm concerned, if that school child performs the measurements systematically and rigorously, in a reproducible form, striving to reduce their errors, then they deserve the title scientist, even if it is the most simple and basic research. In my mind and again this is a personal definition that no one else needs to follow, if you aren't doing science in some manner, then you really should not be afforded the title of a scientist, even as an amateur. I see no need in this definition for any monetary income in any form to be necessary for the title to be afforded a person. This speaks solely to the person's ability and performance in the field. I'm not sure if Marvin Kilgore gets paid but his name appears on a number of publications. Dean bessy gets paid. Also I seem to see others listed on papers such as Hupe and Haag etc. I can't and won't speak to these specifics other than if the primary author includes anyone as a coauthor, it is apparent that in some way their efforts, input or individual results were important to the collaborative research put forth in the paper. Being mentioned in a research paper is not the same as being listed as a coauthor. Does it take a Ph,d getting paid in that field to be a pro? Or would a Ph,d getting paid in geology work as well? A person with a PhD who is unemployed in not a professional in any field. A person without a High School diploma who obtains the bulk of their income from their research efforts is a professional. Would a certain VIP working at a scope in the Catalina's who discovered 2008 TC3 be a meteoriticist? If so, which variety? Absolutely not. As I have repeatedly told you in the past when you have asked my opinion on a number of your found rarities, I am nothing more than a basic meteorite collector. I in no way study meteorites in a scientific manner and I certainly do not perform scientific research on them at even the most basic level. I certainly enjoy my collection and I also enjoy much of the meteorite community, but I am no meteoriticist, not even an amateur one. I am a meteorite hobbyist and collector and I'm very happy at that level. The reason I put this thread forward was partly to open a discussion on the real science of meteoritics and what areas of research are open to the amateur scientist by asking those who are already performing this research to tell me (or all of us) a little more about what their research efforts are. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like?
Hello List, This is a slice of the New Gebel Kamil meteorite from Egypt, it is an Ataxite and it is ungrouped which makes it unique and is one of a kind in composition http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Could someone tell me what are Schlering bands, are those Schlering bands in the picture?? I did a Google search, but didn't find any information about Schlering Bands. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like?
Hi Tim, Try a little different spelling or just go to this article by Jim Tobin in Meteorite Times: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2004/January/Tektite_of_Month.htm My best, Thomas --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net Subject: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like? To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:47 PM Hello List, This is a slice of the New Gebel Kamil meteorite from Egypt, it is an Ataxite and it is ungrouped which makes it unique and is one of a kind in composition http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Could someone tell me what are Schlering bands, are those Schlering bands in the picture?? I did a Google search, but didn't find any information about Schlering Bands. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists?
HI Martin. I wanted to add that on the whole I do not consider meteorite hunters meteoriticists. Now I want to be PERFECTLY CLEAR by what I mean here. I know that the field of meteoritics heavily depends on meteorite hunters, both professional and part-time, to find and bring in material for study, but as far as I know, in most cases they are not doing the actual research of this material. Now to qualify that statement. Photographing and recording the position of a new find is important, but that isn't necessarily science or make the data point recorder a meteoriticist. Additional questions that need to be answered to raise the quality of this data can be what map datum was used to determine the position? What was the accuracy of this data point? How many other measurements of this location were determined and what were those accuracies? Is the reported position a single position, an average or a mean of all the measured locations? Was the find made as part of a random walk or was the strewn field gridded? What was the length of each of the axes of the grid? How large an area was covered beyond the finds so as to determine the size of the strewnfield? In my opinion these are just a few of the requirements that would help raise the level of a meteorite hunter to a field meteoriticist. I know of several hunters that do hunt regions with some scientific rigor with a greater interest in the data they are obtaining that what they could potentially sell their finds for. I am certainly NOT denigrating hunting for fun or profit. I only want to point out that just because you make a single measure of a find's location while gridding a strewnfield, and your data may in fact be very useful to the science, that does not necessarily raise your efforts to that of a meteoriticist. Cheers -- Richard --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists? To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 6:40 PM Hi Carl Richard, no Carl, that hasn't to do with money. I understood Richard's question in that way, whether or to which degree amateurs would contribute to meteorite science. And there I said, they're bringing the stones, the asteroid belt, Moon Mars to the labs, where the research on the stones will be done then. (hence the usual division of labour of the last 2 centuries). I know, that some of these, organizing the stones, do have studied and degrees in geology, but they like rather to be addressed as meteorite-hunters. Also I wouldn't suppose, that these, who are doing the field work or are trying to nail down a fireball, hence doing lege artis something overlapping with the work of scientists, have a self-concept of being scientists. Hence if we look into the Bulletins, then we see, that this form of contribution is very important. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Richard Kowalski [mailto:damoc...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Oktober 2010 03:09 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Amateur Meteoriticists? Carl, I'll try to answer a few of your questions embedded within your post. --- On Fri, 10/1/10, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Richard, Martin, Very good question. It seems to me that unless you are getting paid for something. You are an amateur? Well yes and no. I've been rather jaded by working as and with a number of amateur astronomers in the field of minor planet studies. Some years ago there was a discussion on the Minor Planet Mailing List on the term 'amateur'. The discussion stemmed from the often negative connotation of that word and the fact that many 'amateurs' were and are doing very high level science from their backyards. Various terms were bandied about and one name that seemed to be used more often since then has been unpaid or volunteer astronomers. Not very appealing, but very descriptive. For the most part amateur was and remains the most popular title, in its original definition, a lover of the science. Personally I attach the name of amateur scientist, whatever the science, to a person who does real, publishable peer-reviewed level science. As David mentioned, density measurements can be done by any school child, but as far as I'm concerned, if that school child performs the measurements systematically and rigorously, in a reproducible form, striving to reduce their errors, then they deserve the title scientist, even if it is the most simple and basic research. In my mind and again this is a personal definition that no one else needs to follow, if you aren't doing science in some manner, then you really should not be afforded the title of a scientist, even as an amateur. I see no need
Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schreibersites, what do they look like?
Hello List and Thomas, It is very high in nickel and shows a strange etch pattern, it shows brittle and silvery Schreibersites, as seen in this iron as needles that is shown in the etching. http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Spelling is Schreibersites Regards, Tim - Original Message - From: Thomas Webb webb...@yahoo.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like? Hi Tim, Try a little different spelling or just go to this article by Jim Tobin in Meteorite Times: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2004/January/Tektite_of_Month.htm My best, Thomas --- On Sat, 10/2/10, Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net Subject: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like? To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 9:47 PM Hello List, This is a slice of the New Gebel Kamil meteorite from Egypt, it is an Ataxite and it is ungrouped which makes it unique and is one of a kind in composition http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Could someone tell me what are Schlering bands, are those Schlering bands in the picture?? I did a Google search, but didn't find any information about Schlering Bands. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like?
Hello Jeff, Yes, I do see bands there in this piece. Regards. Tim - Original Message - From: Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au To: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands,what do they look like? Hi Tim, I don't know a lot about them but I do know they often show up when ataxites (i.e. Chinga) are etched. Here is an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=230500864867 Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands,what do they look like? Hello List, This is a slice of the New Gebel Kamil meteorite from Egypt, it is an Ataxite and it is ungrouped which makes it unique and is one of a kind in composition http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Could someone tell me what are Schlering bands, are those Schlering bands in the picture?? I did a Google search, but didn't find any information about Schlering Bands. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands, what do they look like?
Hi Tim, I don't know a lot about them but I do know they often show up when ataxites (i.e. Chinga) are etched. Here is an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=230500864867 Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Gebel Kamil meteorite with Schlering bands,what do they look like? Hello List, This is a slice of the New Gebel Kamil meteorite from Egypt, it is an Ataxite and it is ungrouped which makes it unique and is one of a kind in composition http://www.meteorman.org/Gebel-Kamil-slice-77g-640.jpg Could someone tell me what are Schlering bands, are those Schlering bands in the picture?? I did a Google search, but didn't find any information about Schlering Bands. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ultraviolet space rocks
I took the picture displayed in Rocks from Space Picture of the Day dated September 29, 2009. I used a UV led flashlight with the primary output around 380nm. Most minerals in meteorites do not fluoresce under UV light because of their high Fe content. The Fe quenches the fluorescence. The aubrites formed under low fO2 conditions and hence the pyroxenes have very low Fe (typically 350 ppm FeO). If I remember correctly, the color of the fluorescence may have something to do with trace amounts of Mn. Laurence Garvie CMS ASU -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 04:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: David Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net Subject: [meteorite-list] Ultraviolet Space Rocks? To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 1305.69.50.53.154.1286008192.squir...@webmail.fairpoint.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hi All, I notice that the Rocks from Space Picture of the Day, dated about a year ago, September 29, 2009, features an unusually remarkable glowing fluorescent meteorite. It's described as an 11.1 g piece of Norton County (ASU#523) where The large enstatite crystals fluoresce bright yellow. Quite an eyeful. This is an oddball meteorite, I'm guessing, as I haven't seen pictures of any other meteorites displaying fluorescent color values. Does this bode well for other fluorescent meteorites being found? I mean, are the scientists really looking and checking for fluorescent color values in meteorites on a systematic basis? If not, they may be missing the boat. If you look closely at this picture you may be able to detect, as I do, that there apparently are other possible fluorescent color values happening, as well. I am referring to the noticable blue/green colored fluoresent values below and to the right of the yellow colored enstatite and to the upper left of the enstatite area, also. To my understanding, these may indicate additional minerals with other fluorescent color values reacting to utlraviolet light, too. It's unfortunate that the person who took this picture did not take the time and spend the effort to look carefully at their resulting picture. I wonder what wavelength ultraviolet was used, although I guess it was probably shortwave. If so, they may not have exposed the specimen to midwave and longwave ultraviolet wavelengths, as well, consequently denying themselves (and the rest of us!) valuable ultraviolet reactive fluorescent color value information. Is this simply a situation of sloppy science rearing it's ugly head? Or does it indicate that ignorance is truly bliss, after all? Yours for the light, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
