Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Shawn, Read my blog and the relationship between Adam Seybert and James Woodhouse. Woodhouse beat out Seybert for a professorship of chemistry, and there was bad blood between the two, and it was Seybert who was bad mouthing Woodhouse to Silliman about Woodhouse's inability to analyze a meteorite. And Edgar Fahs Smith frowned on Seybert's attacks on another paper of Woodhouse, saying it was a spot on Seybert's reputation. That's what history is all about. You have to look at all of the sources you can, not just one, and figure out the motives of what people said and did. You missed that. Read the blog closely and carefully. It's all there if you take the time to absorb it. Again, see www.meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com Mark - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 1:27 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Chris and Listers, LOL Yes another book please :) I am having a great time learning more about the Weston fall and the roles that Silliman played and I think the lack of roles Woodhouse played with the Weston meteorite fall. But again I am not saying Woodhouse is a lesser scientist, only sticking with the facts that be said.. "Edgar Fahs Smith, praises Woodhouse’s efforts in his field, although he concedes that Woodhouse’s methods were faulty. Among his contemporaries Woodhouse’s reputation as a chemist and mineralogist was not high…. In January, 1808, with a manuscript account of the Weston meteorite, Silliman did not show it to Woodhouse, being convinced that Woodhouses’s analysis of the meteor, as yet unpublished was “altogether loose and not to be depended on….Woodhouse did not know how to analyze a stone, and that he had not a single sure test or agent of any kind to do it with” Cited from Transactions of the American Philosophical Society 1969 Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Chris Spratt cspratt at islandnet.com Tue Feb 22 19:43:02 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Eva Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] If you gentlemen keep this up we can get another book. Interesting read. Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) Previous message: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Eva Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
Just keep in mind that sodium hydroxide is a key ingredient in making
methamphetamine. That's why Red Devil lye is no longer available. A lot of
what is now sold as "lye" actually contains deliberate contaminants, and if
you try buying pure lye you might attract law enforcement notice, especially
if you buy pounds of it.
It is perfectly legal to buy and possess, of course. But you might find a
few extra patrols driving past your house!
Chris
*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Cox"
To: "Meteorite-list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
Don and Steve,
You may have already found this or gotten an answer to your question.
I Googled, (always the best way to find anything) Red Devil Lye, and it
gives several websites to buy similar products. Try these, 50 LBs of
lye-Sodium Hydroxide for $65.00 USD, or 2 LBs $5.95.
"http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bsodium+%2Bhydroxide&affiliate_pro_tracking_id=17:23:
Hope you get your solution made up.
All the best!
Brian
__
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[meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Chris and Listers, LOL Yes another book please :) I am having a great time learning more about the Weston fall and the roles that Silliman played and I think the lack of roles Woodhouse played with the Weston meteorite fall. But again I am not saying Woodhouse is a lesser scientist, only sticking with the facts that be said.. "Edgar Fahs Smith, praises Woodhouse’s efforts in his field, although he concedes that Woodhouse’s methods were faulty. Among his contemporaries Woodhouse’s reputation as a chemist and mineralogist was not high…. In January, 1808, with a manuscript account of the Weston meteorite, Silliman did not show it to Woodhouse, being convinced that Woodhouses’s analysis of the meteor, as yet unpublished was “altogether loose and not to be depended on….Woodhouse did not know how to analyze a stone, and that he had not a single sure test or agent of any kind to do it with” Cited from Transactions of the American Philosophical Society 1969 Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Chris Spratt cspratt at islandnet.com Tue Feb 22 19:43:02 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Eva Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] If you gentlemen keep this up we can get another book. Interesting read. Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) Previous message: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Eva Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
Don and Steve, You may have already found this or gotten an answer to your question. I Googled, (always the best way to find anything) Red Devil Lye, and it gives several websites to buy similar products. Try these, 50 LBs of lye-Sodium Hydroxide for $65.00 USD, or 2 LBs $5.95. "http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bsodium+%2Bhydroxide&affiliate_pro_tracking_id=17:23: Hope you get your solution made up. All the best! Brian __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hello Mike and Listers Mike wrote "Dr. Isaac Bronson and Dr. Horace Holley conducted the first investigation of Weston. Bronson then wrote the first report of the event on December 19, 1807 - two days before Silliman/Kingsley arrived on-site. This would become the first published report on the Weston event as it was published in the December 28th edition of the New-York Commercial Advertiser" Hands down you can do some research and I have to say I do my fact checking and this had slipped by, well done :) But again the information you got was from 2009 and mine is from 2007 so I guess my material could be dated. At any rate, if we really want to be technical, someone else beat Bronson and Silliman to the punch for publication about the Weston meteorite fall.. "Immediately following Bronson’s letter, the editor of the paper inserted two short notices taken from local newspapers. The first, from Bridgeport, Connecticut, dated December 24, was titled: “Terrestrial Comet.” It stated that on the morning of the 14th a “Terrestrial Comet” exploded nearly over the town of Weston, about nine miles from Bridgeport. It described the comet’s size, brilliance, course, and explosion, and said the stone appeared to have beendissolved and concreted again, and strongly impregnated with iron. The notice continued: We understand that the intention of the learned faculty of Yale College is extended to this remarkable phenomenon, and it will yield something new and interesting if pursued intensively, which we presume it will be. Mr. Edward King, of London, has published remarks on the falling of stones from our atmosphere both in antient and modern times. Mr. King’s enquiry was excited by the remarkable explosions which took place in Tuscany [Siena], on the 16th of June, 1794. The second, much shorter, notice came from a paper in Wardsbridge, Connecticut. Dated December 25, it described the fireball as an uncommonly large meteor resembling a fiery-tailed comet. The first of these notices indicates that at least one local newspaper editor was familiar with Edward King’s book that had been published eleven years earlier in England." (Marvin B46-47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) Now that is some reporting, giving twitter a run for its money back in 1807. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Mike Bandli wrote: > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 > SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE > To: "'Shawn Alan'" , mar...@westnet.com > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 6:00 PM > Shawn Alan wrote: "I see that > the first publication of any account of the > Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by > Silliman and Kingsley > sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and > the stones to The > Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of > the first > published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 > 2007, The origins > of modern meteorite research)..." > > > Actually, this is incorrect. Dr. Isaac Bronson and Dr. > Horace Holley > conducted the first investigation of Weston. Bronson then > wrote the first > report of the event on December 19, 1807 - two days before > Silliman/Kingsley > arrived on-site. This would become the first published > report on the Weston > event as it was published in the December 28th edition of > the New-York > Commercial Advertiser - a day before Silliman and > Kingsley's report in the > Connecticut Herald. So, Bronson holds the title for the > first report on the > Weston event. Bronson's report was subsequently reprinted > in the out-of-town > paper, the New-York Spectator, on January 2, 1808. > Interestingly, Bronson > and Holley's work on Weston has managed to slip through > many bibliographies. > > > References: > > Bronson, I. (1807) Letter to the editor. New-York > Commercial > Advertiser, December 28, 1807. > > Robson, M. and Pagliaro, F. (2009), Weston: Revised > position for a > historically significant meteorite fall. Meteoritics & > Planetary Science, > 44: 1343–1354. > > > Cheers, > > Mike Bandli > > -- > Mike Bandli > Historic Meteorites > www.HistoricMeteorites.com > and join us on Facebook: > www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 > IMCA #5765 > --- > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. > If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or > copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by > e-mail if you have > received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from > your system. If > you are not the intended recipient you are notified that > disclosing, > copying, distributing or taking any action i
[meteorite-list] Colorado / New Mexico Bright Fireball 5:35 pm MST 22FEB2011
Dear List, Another large bright green fireball event for Colorado/ New Mexico: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/02/colorado-new-mexico-bright-fireball-535.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Eva
Hello all, I'm looking for a piece of the "Eva" (H 5). Anyone? John IMCA1896 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
Speaking of these contracts with property owners, I've been told these contracts also stop others (amateurs) from hunting same property. IOW's if you are not named on the contract, you can't hunt that property??? Any truth to that? Anyone have a copy of one of these contracts??? Today's hunt at Franconia #1 0.5g iron #2 0.5g iron #3 <0.1g iron no OC's Cheers! Jim Wooddell On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, wrote: > Jason, > Everything you've said seems correct. I think the problem/ dilemma / > predicament Steve and co. are in is that if they return the material now then > they have even less control over the retail price. now and in the future. > Further they are not contractually required to return the material. so , it > has been suggested that they go to plan "B" or back to the original plan and > sell the meteorites and forget the peridot dream/ idea. Remember nobody is > suing anybody over this peridot deal. Only a past deal. > Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > Meteoritemax > > > Jason Utas wrote: >> Hello Richard, All, >> >> While the article may have been vague, and I understand that >> interviews can be very misleading, the basics of what was laid out on >> paper seemed apparent, and were confirmed by Steve's statements. >> These were namely that the profits were to be divided in a 25/75% >> fashion, with the larger portion going to the meteorite hunters, and >> secondly, it was apparent was that after a significant period of time >> following the meteorites' excavation and removal that there was/is >> little prospect of profit for either party given what we currently >> know of sales and the prospective market. >> >> Which isn't to say that the situation won't change, and I'm not >> accusing Steve of anything here, but it seems that returning 25% of >> the finds to the landowners would solve the issue of any moral rights >> or wrongs committed; a mistake is a mistake, and returning 25% would >> be fair if no profit is being generated. At least then they would >> have 25% of what was recovered, which is, in theory, proportional to >> 25% of the profit. Granted, there are costs associated with recovery >> and sample preparation, but since the responsibility for selling the >> meteorites would be placed with the landowners in this hypothetical >> scenario, and that takes time and effort as well, I would consider it >> to be a relatively fair compromise. >> >> I don't think that anyone here has deemed Steve guilty of anything >> except not delivering promised profits due to an unfriendly selling >> environment (not really his fault). The trouble is that it *appears* >> as though the farmers were promised big money for the meteorites found >> on their land, the meteorites were taken, and they're not seeing any >> money. That would be a mistake, but in that case, the worst thing we >> could accuse anyone of is of being overly optimistic -- hardly a >> crime. >> >> I've posed my suggestion for what could be done to solve the issue. >> It wouldn't really cost Steve anything except material that he (if we >> are to believe his video testimonial) can't sell. >> >> - It seems like a good way to make the farmers believe they weren't >> treated unfairly, even if they were given poor estimations of >> projected profits. It wouldn't even cut into Steve's cut, since he >> would still have 3/4 of the material to sell! >> >> Sounds like win-win to me...and I believe that the worst thing I may >> have just accused him of was that he may have been over-optimistic >> about sale prices. >> >> Guilty or not guilty, I daresay we've all done that before. The >> trouble is that when most dealers make a poor investment, they merely >> take a loss, and they're not in a situation where they're >> contractually obligated to supply shareholders with percentages of the >> money made, etc. >> >> Part of the problem here may well be a lack of documentation; if the >> farmers were promised a percentage of the "profits," then depending on >> the expenses allowed to be counted against gross, the landowners may >> never see any money because the "expenses" could outweigh the total >> money garnered from selling the finds. >> This would be especially likely if Steve & Co. included a clause in >> the contract that suggested that they be compensated for an hourly >> rate out of the total gross -- an hourly wage that did not count as >> "profit," but rather as a recovery cost. It would likely come to >> quite a substantial sum. Regardless, the farmers should have been >> provided with detailed expense reports and accounts of what had been >> sold, so that they could watch as the expenses as yet unaccounted for >> were covered, and could thus judge when they might see profits in the >> future. If this happened, they probably wouldn't be complaining. >> >> What I see in the video is a man who was promised a profit percentage >> for "extremely valuable" meteorites taken from his land, who was not >> pro
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Shawn Alan wrote: "I see that the first publication of any account of the Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research)..." Actually, this is incorrect. Dr. Isaac Bronson and Dr. Horace Holley conducted the first investigation of Weston. Bronson then wrote the first report of the event on December 19, 1807 - two days before Silliman/Kingsley arrived on-site. This would become the first published report on the Weston event as it was published in the December 28th edition of the New-York Commercial Advertiser - a day before Silliman and Kingsley's report in the Connecticut Herald. So, Bronson holds the title for the first report on the Weston event. Bronson's report was subsequently reprinted in the out-of-town paper, the New-York Spectator, on January 2, 1808. Interestingly, Bronson and Holley's work on Weston has managed to slip through many bibliographies. References: Bronson, I. (1807) Letter to the editor. New-York Commercial Advertiser, December 28, 1807. Robson, M. and Pagliaro, F. (2009), Weston: Revised position for a historically significant meteorite fall. Meteoritics & Planetary Science, 44: 13431354. Cheers, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:37 PM To: mar...@westnet.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 SillimanandWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Hi Mark and Listers, Mark I did take a look at your review and your stance on Silliman's work on the Weston meteorite to say the least is summed up by these statements " Sillimans face must be red with embarrassmentSillimans accomplishments in capturing the imagination of the public versus the quality of his scientific work on the fragments, which was professional but certainly not exceptional" You go further by saying that Woodhouse on the other hand didnt receive enough credit with the Weston meteorite fall. But I find it odd that these two gentlemen had a rivalry. At one point Woodhouse's work on analysis of meteorite stones could be summed up to be "loose and not to be depended on" quoted from the Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, which in March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read a memoir to the American Philosophical Society about the Weston meteorite fall. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Me dical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Phila delphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false You have suggested that Woodhouse's role could be deemed just as important as Sillimans and that Prince did not express that in her work. But my question is why do you feel that Woodhouses role was just as important if not even more? I see that the first publication of any account of the Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A few days later a letter written by Bronson a merchant describe his observation and was published January 2, 1808 in The New York Spector. As for publications go Silliman was one of the first to do so and not to mention his first-hand accounts in the field as opposed to Woodhouse lack of engagement in the field, and second hand sources. You say that Woodhouse published his analysis of the Weston meteorite; may I ask what the date was when he published his findings and where? In January 1808 Silliman's manuscript accounts the analysis of the Weston fall and at that time Woodhouse's analysis had been unpublished and to some felt his
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
If you gentlemen keep this up we can get another book. Interesting read. Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hi Shawn, I suppose Cathryn Prince could have written whatever she wanted to on my blog, but what she wrote is what is there. What amazes me is how what started out as an academic discussion between two people off list has been blown to such proportions by you because you feel you can't handle the discussion one on one with me. So you decide to bring it out to the list. Fine for me - increases traffic on the blog. So again, I'll stand by what is written in my blog. Oh, and do tell me when you have read Prince's book - I believe when we spoke last night you hadn't read it yet. Perhaps you should. Last I'm going to say on the matter. For eveyone else, my position is clearly stated on my blog. Now off to the movies for me! Mark Er, Shawn, when you emailed Prince, did you tell her you hadn't read her book yet? :-) - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Hello Mark Listers, My I add that I contact Prince and this is what she had to say about the matter of your review and Silliman and Woodhouse. Hi Shawn, I'm so happy you introduced yourself. Well, I do feel that . missed the point of my book, which is, as you seem to understand, a book that examines Silliman's role in the meteorite and shaping American science as a discipline. I feel the rivalry between Woodhouse and Silliman has its roots in a few things. One, Woodhouse, the teacher had difficulty in a student surpassing him. You will see that Silliman, on the contrary, celebrated those students who excelled and moved the field forward. As for others whose work came before Silliman: I address that point as well in the book. I discussed the role of others, such as Chladni, Kant, who examined certain theories. In fact, I make no bones about telling the reader that Silliman studied these works and studied the accounts of past meteorite falls. All that helped him shape his theory, and he did give those men and their work credit. I think Woodhouse served his purpose initially as far as Silliman was concerned, but Woodhouse seemed to 'smell' a good story and through his exchanges with Bronson and Silliman, one does get the sense that he wanted 'in' on this historic fall. On a side note, I am quite taken with the degree of interest in past falls and the meteorites themselves. It is really a whole new world I discovered while working on this book! I look forward to hearing from you soon, Cathryn Now you see Mark, my original post was of Silliman and Woodhouses rivalry and had nothing to do with you till you interjected and said look at my scholarly discussion about Princes book review. Now after reviewing your "scholarly discussion I find it odd how you down play Sillimans role with the Weston meteorite fall and up play Woodhouse role, lack thereof. However, you fail to mention how other scholars felt Woodhouses work to be loose and no to be trusted with the Weston meteroite fall. You also fail to mention when, where, and the date that Woodhouse supposable published an analysis and still fail to provide that information of an exacted date; only a link to your website that cites other people, but no first hand accounts, which I have provided with Sillimans role with the Weston meteroite. And lastly this is what I said about the rivalry between Silliman and Woodhouse Over the course of a few days I had done some research on the Weston meteorite fall and read up on Silliman's role and it could be summed up to these few quotes "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the earliest and best authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America." Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888 Source http://books.google.com/books?id=K6koYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA528#v=onepage&q&f=false "SILLIMAN, Benjamin, scientist, was born in North Stratford, Conn., Aug. 8, 1779 : son of Gold Selleck Silliman (q.v.) and Mary Fish (Noyes) Silliman. He was graduated at Yale, A.B., 1796, A.M., 1799 In 1805, he went abroad to study a year at Edinburgh and to buy books and apparatus. On his return, he studied the geology of New Haven, and in 1807 he examined the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn., making a chemical analysis of fragments, this report being the first scientific account of any American meteor." Cited from: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF NOTABLE AMERICANS I904 And lastly, a quote taken from James Woodhouse biography written by Edgar Fahs Smith stating Silliman's account of the Weston meteorite fall to be.. "An elaborate account of this m
[meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hello Mark Listers, My I add that I contact Prince and this is what she had to say about the matter of your review and Silliman and Woodhouse. Hi Shawn, I'm so happy you introduced yourself. Well, I do feel that . missed the point of my book, which is, as you seem to understand, a book that examines Silliman's role in the meteorite and shaping American science as a discipline. I feel the rivalry between Woodhouse and Silliman has its roots in a few things. One, Woodhouse, the teacher had difficulty in a student surpassing him. You will see that Silliman, on the contrary, celebrated those students who excelled and moved the field forward. As for others whose work came before Silliman: I address that point as well in the book. I discussed the role of others, such as Chladni, Kant, who examined certain theories. In fact, I make no bones about telling the reader that Silliman studied these works and studied the accounts of past meteorite falls. All that helped him shape his theory, and he did give those men and their work credit. I think Woodhouse served his purpose initially as far as Silliman was concerned, but Woodhouse seemed to 'smell' a good story and through his exchanges with Bronson and Silliman, one does get the sense that he wanted 'in' on this historic fall. On a side note, I am quite taken with the degree of interest in past falls and the meteorites themselves. It is really a whole new world I discovered while working on this book! I look forward to hearing from you soon, Cathryn Now you see Mark, my original post was of Silliman and Woodhouses rivalry and had nothing to do with you till you interjected and said look at my scholarly discussion about Princes book review. Now after reviewing your "scholarly discussion I find it odd how you down play Sillimans role with the Weston meteorite fall and up play Woodhouse role, lack thereof. However, you fail to mention how other scholars felt Woodhouses work to be loose and no to be trusted with the Weston meteroite fall. You also fail to mention when, where, and the date that Woodhouse supposable published an analysis and still fail to provide that information of an exacted date; only a link to your website that cites other people, but no first hand accounts, which I have provided with Sillimans role with the Weston meteroite. And lastly this is what I said about the rivalry between Silliman and Woodhouse Over the course of a few days I had done some research on the Weston meteorite fall and read up on Silliman's role and it could be summed up to these few quotes "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the earliest and best authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America." Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888 Source http://books.google.com/books?id=K6koYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA528#v=onepage&q&f=false "SILLIMAN, Benjamin, scientist, was born in North Stratford, Conn., Aug. 8, 1779 : son of Gold Selleck Silliman (q.v.) and Mary Fish (Noyes) Silliman. He was graduated at Yale, A.B., 1796, A.M., 1799 In 1805, he went abroad to study a year at Edinburgh and to buy books and apparatus. On his return, he studied the geology of New Haven, and in 1807 he examined the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn., making a chemical analysis of fragments, this report being the first scientific account of any American meteor." Cited from: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF NOTABLE AMERICANS I904 And lastly, a quote taken from James Woodhouse biography written by Edgar Fahs Smith stating Silliman's account of the Weston meteorite fall to be.. "An elaborate account of this meteor has been published by Messrs. Silliman and Kingsley, of Yale College, Connecticut." Source http://books.google.com/books?id=4JMEYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA274#v=onepage&q&f=false But what caught my interest was the dynamic roles that played with Silliman and Woodhouse and that some believed Woodhouse role with the Weston meteorite fall to be "loose and not depended on". Take a look at the link below and start at the top of the page. From what I can gather, Silliman and Woodhouse seemed to have a rivalry and few scholars felt the same way about Woodhouse work with the Weston meteorite being bad science. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false Now from my understanding Silliman and Kingsley arrived in Weston December 21 1807, a week after the Weston meteorite fall. During those few d
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
My final rant on the subject: Happy Canyon Meteorite today: 4.4 grams= $225 @ $50 per/gm http://www.meteoritelab.com/estore/?findid=68&c=Meteorite Price I paid in 1974 from Huss and Nininger .60 cents per/gm. I got 24 grams at that price, $14.40 cents. 83 fold increase since 1974 Kenna Meteorite today: 9.65 grams=1,690 at ~$175 per/gm http://www.schoolersinc.com/meteorites_p_9c.htm Price I paid from Nininger and Hus sometime in the late 1970s $1 per/gm. 15.5 grams $15.50 cents. 109 fold increase since the 1970s COOLIDGE, Kansas today: A rare rare C3.8: 12.1 grams=$1,900.00 ~$157 per/gm http://www.nyrockman.com/catalog.htm Price I paid in 1971 for a 8.1 gram piece from Nininger and Huss was $2 or about ~.25 cents per/gm. A 628 fold increase since my 1971 price. Bruderhiem Meteorite today: 4.8 grams=$480 at $100 per/gm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/bruderheim.htm Price I paid for a fully crusted 130 gram individual from the same institution in 1973 $30 or 23 cents per gram 423 fold increase since my 1973 price that I paid then. And of course this one Murchison that arrived at my door in Jan of 1970. 160 grams if I remember right as it is sitting in a safe deposit box a beautiful half crusted stone that I got from one in Australia, who actually saw it fall and picked it up moments after. $50 ! about 30 cents per gram Today about $100 per/gm. At todays price $16,000+ A 320 fold increase over my 1970 price. Oh, I forgot another A nice piece of Pasamonte $2 per/gram in 1971. I still have it, about 2.6 grams with the Niningers hand written number in India ink on white paint; a very nice fusion crusted fragment. $5.20 cents. Try to find that at virtually any price today. And I have many others I could mention, such as a crusted 22.5 gram half slide of Cumberland Falls that I got in 1980 for $2 per/gm. (I thought it high high price then). And that .87 gram fusion crusted piece of Lafayette Indiana that I have $2 bucks a gram for that one too, when few believed it came from Mars. And today that tiny .87 gram piece is worth Go figure. Do the math, the percentage increase for these meteorites. Compare it to the devaluation of todays dollar against that of the 1960s,70s and now These meteorites compared to the devaluation of todays dollars seem to be a very good investment for sure. But I never looked at them as investments just things from space, a curiosity, a piece of space that I could hold in my hand and imagine Boy oh boy, those were the good old days as I remember them when it was fairly easy to get meteorites, ALL meteorites at rock bottom values Pennies for small pieces in the early 60s. Those days when meteorites were sold for $10 or less per/lb; it was not that hard for the average person to amass a fantastic collection. Bob Haag did really well when he jumped in when he did. I could have done it too, as I had been collecting small pieces since I was in grade school in the 1960s. It was and still is a hobby for me But I did not see the light as Bob did. Some that knew I was collecting meteorites long before Bob Haag even got interested in them asked me, "Why did you not become a millionaire like Haag? Why? A hobby for me, and I don't have Bob's "Midas Touch" when it comes to sales and selling. I am happy where I was then and now. Ah, but Bob Haag gave us a some of the good old days too. He sold me a batch of Neuvo Mecurio soon after it fell for the then astounding price of a buck a gram. At the time it was a good deal And Mike Farmer has brought the flavor of the good old days from time to time. When Bob brought in a big batch of Millbillillie meteorites about 1990 or 91, he was selling them at $2.50 to $3.00 per/gm. BOY! That was an old time deal! Look at the price of that meteorite now. I bought a bunch of them for sure, cherry picked out some nice full crusted ones, and right out of the pile that produced that moon rock he found. (I wish I had seen it first, LOL). Then after that, all hell broke out in Australia as the landowners lost workers for their crops, and the workers were out instead finding meteorites. And later batches of stones that came out were nicked or cut to see if they were lunars. Then the Australian laws kicked in. Virtually impossible to obtain meteorites from that country now. Laws are the real problem, and when Nations, landowners, and finders get the legal itch does not take to much thought to see where it is going and has gone. For me, I remember my good old days fondly. It was much easier to obtain meteorites then with my hard earned wages than it is today But the good old days I am sure will come for this generation, the next and others after. Today, I am disabled, having suffered a major affliction and brain operation. In fact I got out of the hospital near eight years ago to this very day. Home bound, and
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
a google search for lye will give you several sources/companies who provide
it for people who make their own soap. take care
susan
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Mulgrew"
To: "Don Giovanni"
Cc: "meteorite list"
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Don and list,
Visit you local hardware store and ask for drain opener. When they
take you to that section look them over and find one that is pure
sodium hydroxide crystals, no additives/color/detergents/scents/etc..
That is what you want to purchase. Sorry I cannot help you with any
name brands, but there are still several retailers of pure sodium
hydroxide.
As a warning, you'll want to wear gloves, eye protection, and clothes
you don't mind ruining whenever you handle sodium hydroxide. Keep it
off your skin, and always add it to the water, not the other way
around (help avoid spilling/splashing). It's also a good idea to keep
an acid around (i.e. lemon juice) to quickly neutralize any spills.
~Michael Mulgrew
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Don Giovanni wrote:
Steve Schoner:
(Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most groceries)
I'm seeing this online:
<< Red Devil Lye, also known as Lewis Red Devil Lye Drain Opener, was the
trade name for a drain cleaner product sold by the manufacturer
Reckitt-Benckiser. The product has been pulled from the market and is no
longer available. >>
Does anyone know of a similar product with the same "active
ingredients".ideally something available at Lowe's or Home Depot
maybe?!
DG
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Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Well Shawn, I'm glad you finally got around to reading my blog after my constant suggestions that you do so. Let me know when you work your way up to Greene and Burke. :-) Oh, and don't forget the Woodhouse reference which I sent you too - let me know when you've read that one also! You asked for it after all. Despite the muddled picture which Shawn presents, I'll let the words in my blog - which were written about Prince's book - and which have nothing to do with Shawn - speak for themselves. Prince casts Silliman as the new father of meteoritics, and that's what the blog is about. Again, for those who are interested, see the latest post at www.meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com Be sure to click the small pencil icon at the end of the blog to see Prince's response. Thanks again. Mark - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Hi Mark and Listers, Mark I did take a look at your review and your stance on Silliman's work on the Weston meteorite to say the least is summed up by these statements " Silliman’s face must be red with embarrassmentSilliman’s accomplishments in capturing the imagination of the public versus the quality of his scientific work on the fragments, which was professional but certainly not exceptional" You go further by saying that Woodhouse on the other hand didn’t receive enough credit with the Weston meteorite fall. But I find it odd that these two gentlemen had a rivalry. At one point Woodhouse's work on analysis of meteorite stones could be summed up to be "loose and not to be depended on" quoted from the Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, which in March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read a memoir to the American Philosophical Society about the Weston meteorite fall. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false You have suggested that Woodhouse's role could be deemed just as important as Sillimans and that Prince did not express that in her work. But my question is why do you feel that Woodhouses role was just as important if not even more? I see that the first publication of any account of the Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A few days later a letter written by Bronson a merchant describe his observation and was published January 2, 1808 in The New York Spector. As for publications go Silliman was one of the first to do so and not to mention his first-hand accounts in the field as opposed to Woodhouse lack of engagement in the field, and second hand sources. You say that Woodhouse published his analysis of the Weston meteorite; may I ask what the date was when he published his findings and where? In January 1808 Silliman's manuscript accounts the analysis of the Weston fall and at that time Woodhouse's analysis had been unpublished and to some felt his work to be unsound and loose. In March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read their memoir of the Weston meteorite fall and analysis in front of the American Philosophical Society and to further their analysis and research had numerous excerpts and abstractions published in Europe in 1808. Now I find this statement from your review to be odd which you state "Silliman’s Weston study owes a great debt to the chemical work of Edward Howard and other analysts, such as Vauquelin, Fourcroy (1755-1809) and Klaproth, as well as to scientist Jean Baptiste Biot (1774-1862), who interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the 1803 L’Aigle meteorite shower and documented their reports" But what is interesting is you failed to express that Sillimans and Kingsley excerpts and abstractions from the Weston meteorite fall were read to the Royal Society in London in 1808, and a newspaper article on it had been translated into French and read to the National Institute in Paris before a rapt audience including Fourcroy, Vauquelin, Berthollet, Laplace, Lagrange, and Biot (Brown 1989:236) (Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) Its interesting how this comes full circle and how student learners from instructor and instructor learns from student. I feel that the placement of Sillimans role in American meteoritic science science can be summed up to this "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he m
Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar & Mars boxes - emergency sale AD
Boxes SOLD __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hi Mark and Listers, Mark I did take a look at your review and your stance on Silliman's work on the Weston meteorite to say the least is summed up by these statements " Silliman’s face must be red with embarrassmentSilliman’s accomplishments in capturing the imagination of the public versus the quality of his scientific work on the fragments, which was professional but certainly not exceptional" You go further by saying that Woodhouse on the other hand didn’t receive enough credit with the Weston meteorite fall. But I find it odd that these two gentlemen had a rivalry. At one point Woodhouse's work on analysis of meteorite stones could be summed up to be "loose and not to be depended on" quoted from the Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, which in March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read a memoir to the American Philosophical Society about the Weston meteorite fall. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false You have suggested that Woodhouse's role could be deemed just as important as Sillimans and that Prince did not express that in her work. But my question is why do you feel that Woodhouses role was just as important if not even more? I see that the first publication of any account of the Weston meteorite fall was done on December 29, 1807 by Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A few days later a letter written by Bronson a merchant describe his observation and was published January 2, 1808 in The New York Spector. As for publications go Silliman was one of the first to do so and not to mention his first-hand accounts in the field as opposed to Woodhouse lack of engagement in the field, and second hand sources. You say that Woodhouse published his analysis of the Weston meteorite; may I ask what the date was when he published his findings and where? In January 1808 Silliman's manuscript accounts the analysis of the Weston fall and at that time Woodhouse's analysis had been unpublished and to some felt his work to be unsound and loose. In March 1808 Silliman and Kingsley read their memoir of the Weston meteorite fall and analysis in front of the American Philosophical Society and to further their analysis and research had numerous excerpts and abstractions published in Europe in 1808. Now I find this statement from your review to be odd which you state "Silliman’s Weston study owes a great debt to the chemical work of Edward Howard and other analysts, such as Vauquelin, Fourcroy (1755-1809) and Klaproth, as well as to scientist Jean Baptiste Biot (1774-1862), who interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the 1803 L’Aigle meteorite shower and documented their reports" But what is interesting is you failed to express that Sillimans and Kingsley excerpts and abstractions from the Weston meteorite fall were read to the Royal Society in London in 1808, and a newspaper article on it had been translated into French and read to the National Institute in Paris before a rapt audience including Fourcroy, Vauquelin, Berthollet, Laplace, Lagrange, and Biot (Brown 1989:236) (Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) Its interesting how this comes full circle and how student learners from instructor and instructor learns from student. I feel that the placement of Sillimans role in American meteoritic science science can be summed up to this "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the earliest and best authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America." Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888 On the other hand Mark, Woodhouses role is concerned, his reputation as a chemist and mineralogist was not high and to some, seen as being loose and not being dependable with analysis of stones. Now does the rivalry lay in the lack of evidence that one might present in an argument of why Woodhouse deserves accreditation or is the rivalry a mere conflict between student/teacher, a dilemma that presented its self at the time of meteoritic science was at the for front in America, the race for notoriety of the first American to have a well-documented account with the first American meteorite fall, THE WESTON meteorite. I feel that Silliman's role was one of the best first hand accounts of a meteroite fall/analysis in America and Woodhouse falling short and seen as loose in his work an
[meteorite-list] Lunar & Mars boxes - emergency sale AD
Hi I have for sale Martin&Stefan small mars and lunar boxes. (specimen size around 10mg) Im looking for someone who will buy them all from me at a purchase price. They are absolutelly impossible to sell in Poland :D even if they was a worldwide sale hit. I have some boxes with alredy sold-out lunar and mars NWA numbers (correct me Martin if Im wrong) I have NWA 4483 Lunar - 6 boxes NWA 4766 Mars - 12 boxes NWA 4881 Lunar - 7 boxes 12euro/16$/box -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New book
I am currently reading this book, and so far it is excellent. Don't be mislead by the title or by the reviewers (Ann Hodges is mentioned in the book), it is smart and entertaining and filled with interesting historical facts. I'm only on page 64 but have already had an interesting read on Kirkwood gaps, Barwell, the emperor Elagabalus of Rome, Sorby and Topham. --- Chris Spratt schrieb am Di, 22.2.2011: > Von: Chris Spratt > Betreff: [meteorite-list] New book > An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Datum: Dienstag, 22. Februar, 2011 22:29 Uhr > I read a > review of this book in a UK newspaper: "Incoming! > Or, Why We Should Stop Worrying and > Learn to Love The > Meteorite" by Ted Nield. > > Isn't listed on Amazon Canada. > > Reviewer claims > no-one has been hurt by a meteorite. Guess he hadn't heard > of Ann Hodges > and the SYLACAUGA 1954 fall. > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Don and list, Visit you local hardware store and ask for drain opener. When they take you to that section look them over and find one that is pure sodium hydroxide crystals, no additives/color/detergents/scents/etc.. That is what you want to purchase. Sorry I cannot help you with any name brands, but there are still several retailers of pure sodium hydroxide. As a warning, you'll want to wear gloves, eye protection, and clothes you don't mind ruining whenever you handle sodium hydroxide. Keep it off your skin, and always add it to the water, not the other way around (help avoid spilling/splashing). It's also a good idea to keep an acid around (i.e. lemon juice) to quickly neutralize any spills. ~Michael Mulgrew On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Don Giovanni wrote: > > Steve Schoner: > >> (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most groceries) > > I'm seeing this online: > > << Red Devil Lye, also known as Lewis Red Devil Lye Drain Opener, was the > trade name for a drain cleaner product sold by the manufacturer > Reckitt-Benckiser. The product has been pulled from the market and is no > longer available. >> > > Does anyone know of a similar product with the same "active > ingredients".ideally something available at Lowe's or Home Depot maybe?! > > DG > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
Jason, Everything you've said seems correct. I think the problem/ dilemma / predicament Steve and co. are in is that if they return the material now then they have even less control over the retail price. now and in the future. Further they are not contractually required to return the material. so , it has been suggested that they go to plan "B" or back to the original plan and sell the meteorites and forget the peridot dream/ idea. Remember nobody is suing anybody over this peridot deal. Only a past deal. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jason Utas wrote: > Hello Richard, All, > > While the article may have been vague, and I understand that > interviews can be very misleading, the basics of what was laid out on > paper seemed apparent, and were confirmed by Steve's statements. > These were namely that the profits were to be divided in a 25/75% > fashion, with the larger portion going to the meteorite hunters, and > secondly, it was apparent was that after a significant period of time > following the meteorites' excavation and removal that there was/is > little prospect of profit for either party given what we currently > know of sales and the prospective market. > > Which isn't to say that the situation won't change, and I'm not > accusing Steve of anything here, but it seems that returning 25% of > the finds to the landowners would solve the issue of any moral rights > or wrongs committed; a mistake is a mistake, and returning 25% would > be fair if no profit is being generated. At least then they would > have 25% of what was recovered, which is, in theory, proportional to > 25% of the profit. Granted, there are costs associated with recovery > and sample preparation, but since the responsibility for selling the > meteorites would be placed with the landowners in this hypothetical > scenario, and that takes time and effort as well, I would consider it > to be a relatively fair compromise. > > I don't think that anyone here has deemed Steve guilty of anything > except not delivering promised profits due to an unfriendly selling > environment (not really his fault). The trouble is that it *appears* > as though the farmers were promised big money for the meteorites found > on their land, the meteorites were taken, and they're not seeing any > money. That would be a mistake, but in that case, the worst thing we > could accuse anyone of is of being overly optimistic -- hardly a > crime. > > I've posed my suggestion for what could be done to solve the issue. > It wouldn't really cost Steve anything except material that he (if we > are to believe his video testimonial) can't sell. > > - It seems like a good way to make the farmers believe they weren't > treated unfairly, even if they were given poor estimations of > projected profits. It wouldn't even cut into Steve's cut, since he > would still have 3/4 of the material to sell! > > Sounds like win-win to me...and I believe that the worst thing I may > have just accused him of was that he may have been over-optimistic > about sale prices. > > Guilty or not guilty, I daresay we've all done that before. The > trouble is that when most dealers make a poor investment, they merely > take a loss, and they're not in a situation where they're > contractually obligated to supply shareholders with percentages of the > money made, etc. > > Part of the problem here may well be a lack of documentation; if the > farmers were promised a percentage of the "profits," then depending on > the expenses allowed to be counted against gross, the landowners may > never see any money because the "expenses" could outweigh the total > money garnered from selling the finds. > This would be especially likely if Steve & Co. included a clause in > the contract that suggested that they be compensated for an hourly > rate out of the total gross -- an hourly wage that did not count as > "profit," but rather as a recovery cost. It would likely come to > quite a substantial sum. Regardless, the farmers should have been > provided with detailed expense reports and accounts of what had been > sold, so that they could watch as the expenses as yet unaccounted for > were covered, and could thus judge when they might see profits in the > future. If this happened, they probably wouldn't be complaining. > > What I see in the video is a man who was promised a profit percentage > for "extremely valuable" meteorites taken from his land, who was not > provided with enough information to know that he wasn't being, for > lack of a better word, robbed. > > As I said before: knowing Steve, I wouldn't accuse him of anything > more than *possibly* being over-optimistic with regards to sale > prices. But there's clearly a miscommunication of some sort going on > - or else there wouldn't be a farmer complaining about being cheated > on the news. > > Regards, > Jason > > Jason Utas > University of California, Berkeley 2012 > College of Letters and Science > Psychology
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Steve Schoner: > (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most groceries) I'm seeing this online: << Red Devil Lye, also known as Lewis Red Devil Lye Drain Opener, was the trade name for a drain cleaner product sold by the manufacturer Reckitt-Benckiser. The product has been pulled from the market and is no longer available. >> Does anyone know of a similar product with the same "active ingredients".ideally something available at Lowe's or Home Depot maybe?! DG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
Hello Richard and All, There are TWO different situations Steve is involved with that I am aware of, they are getting mixed together here because of the Kansas article. Neither one is my business but I will try to quickly clarify for this thread. 1) The case/lawsuit which started today in Texas is NOT about the Admire (Alpha stones), it is about his first Brenham partnership with one person. 2) The consortium of farmers in the peridot extracting partnership are NOT involved in the case that started today. Beyond today's case, I have no clue what will happen with the band of angry farmers. I hope this helps a little, only Steve can correct the assumptions and rumors this thread has started. I just hope BOTH situations are satisfied quickly and all parties can move on in life without all of this negativity! Best Regards, Greg -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:40 PM To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Open Court Ok, Judge Judy just ended, Judge Alex is on now, but I'll take a minute to post. There are so many interesting threads on this list and one extremely boring one filled with nothing but gossip and opinions. Well like the other thing that everyone else has, I have an opinion too. I see one angry framer. OK I see Steve's response. OK Who do I believe? I haven't seen the contract. I haven't seen a transcript of the meeting where they came to an agreement. I wasn't there. The parties involved are in court as I write this. Since I have no involvement in the case and don't have anywhere near all of the facts, I'll sit and wait to see what the court decides. I'm just surprised that the meteorite hunter is automatically considered to be at fault by many in the community. Ohh, People's Court is on too! Gotta go. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
I've gotten several private emails about my post. To save me time answering more individually, I'll just post this and it'll be my last comment on the subject publicly or privately . No doubt that Steve has some issues. That isn't the point of my post. My point is legal and contractual issues are just that. Unless anyone commenting has private information pertinent to the case(s), then it is all hearsay. As I've responded in private emails, anyone can sue anyone for any reason at any time. Just because someone ends up in court doesn't mean they've done something wrong. I'm not defending Steve. That's the job of his council. I waiting for the court's decision. That will speak for itself. I just have no interest in gossip or opinions. That's all. I'm much more interested in hearing responses to Jason Utas' excellent discussion of the current state of the collectible's meteorite market in response to Kevin's inquiry. I much more insightful and a vastly more interesting topic. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
Hello Richard, All, While the article may have been vague, and I understand that interviews can be very misleading, the basics of what was laid out on paper seemed apparent, and were confirmed by Steve's statements. These were namely that the profits were to be divided in a 25/75% fashion, with the larger portion going to the meteorite hunters, and secondly, it was apparent was that after a significant period of time following the meteorites' excavation and removal that there was/is little prospect of profit for either party given what we currently know of sales and the prospective market. Which isn't to say that the situation won't change, and I'm not accusing Steve of anything here, but it seems that returning 25% of the finds to the landowners would solve the issue of any moral rights or wrongs committed; a mistake is a mistake, and returning 25% would be fair if no profit is being generated. At least then they would have 25% of what was recovered, which is, in theory, proportional to 25% of the profit. Granted, there are costs associated with recovery and sample preparation, but since the responsibility for selling the meteorites would be placed with the landowners in this hypothetical scenario, and that takes time and effort as well, I would consider it to be a relatively fair compromise. I don't think that anyone here has deemed Steve guilty of anything except not delivering promised profits due to an unfriendly selling environment (not really his fault). The trouble is that it *appears* as though the farmers were promised big money for the meteorites found on their land, the meteorites were taken, and they're not seeing any money. That would be a mistake, but in that case, the worst thing we could accuse anyone of is of being overly optimistic -- hardly a crime. I've posed my suggestion for what could be done to solve the issue. It wouldn't really cost Steve anything except material that he (if we are to believe his video testimonial) can't sell. - It seems like a good way to make the farmers believe they weren't treated unfairly, even if they were given poor estimations of projected profits. It wouldn't even cut into Steve's cut, since he would still have 3/4 of the material to sell! Sounds like win-win to me...and I believe that the worst thing I may have just accused him of was that he may have been over-optimistic about sale prices. Guilty or not guilty, I daresay we've all done that before. The trouble is that when most dealers make a poor investment, they merely take a loss, and they're not in a situation where they're contractually obligated to supply shareholders with percentages of the money made, etc. Part of the problem here may well be a lack of documentation; if the farmers were promised a percentage of the "profits," then depending on the expenses allowed to be counted against gross, the landowners may never see any money because the "expenses" could outweigh the total money garnered from selling the finds. This would be especially likely if Steve & Co. included a clause in the contract that suggested that they be compensated for an hourly rate out of the total gross -- an hourly wage that did not count as "profit," but rather as a recovery cost. It would likely come to quite a substantial sum. Regardless, the farmers should have been provided with detailed expense reports and accounts of what had been sold, so that they could watch as the expenses as yet unaccounted for were covered, and could thus judge when they might see profits in the future. If this happened, they probably wouldn't be complaining. What I see in the video is a man who was promised a profit percentage for "extremely valuable" meteorites taken from his land, who was not provided with enough information to know that he wasn't being, for lack of a better word, robbed. As I said before: knowing Steve, I wouldn't accuse him of anything more than *possibly* being over-optimistic with regards to sale prices. But there's clearly a miscommunication of some sort going on - or else there wouldn't be a farmer complaining about being cheated on the news. Regards, Jason Jason Utas University of California, Berkeley 2012 College of Letters and Science Psychology, Geology On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote: > Ok, Judge Judy just ended, Judge Alex is on now, but I'll take a minute to > post. > > There are so many interesting threads on this list and one extremely boring > one filled with nothing but gossip and opinions. Well like the other thing > that everyone else has, I have an opinion too. > > I see one angry framer. OK > I see Steve's response. OK > > Who do I believe? > > I haven't seen the contract. > I haven't seen a transcript of the meeting where they came to an agreement. > I wasn't there. > > The parties involved are in court as I write this. Since I have no > involvement in the case and don't have anywhere near all of the facts, I'll > sit and wait to see what the c
[meteorite-list] New book
I read a review of this book in a UK newspaper: "Incoming! Or, Why We Should Stop Worrying and Learn to Love The Meteorite" by Ted Nield. Isn't listed on Amazon Canada. Reviewer claims no-one has been hurt by a meteorite. Guess he hadn't heard of Ann Hodges and the SYLACAUGA 1954 fall. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
Richard, I assume you are interested so, I will try to bring you up to speed. The law suit you refer to has little to do with the farmer that is upset in the video. The suit is against Steve for an alleged breech but, that has not been discussed here. And the suit is non issue for most of us. What we have been discussing is how to stop all of this bad press generated by this farmer from continuing. Because this is an issue. And what should our good friends Steve and his crew do to make this mess go away. like Dana said. Making this farmer happy would go a long way here. This list seems to be putting a bit of pressure on Steve but, he is a man. He can take it. And he as one who makes the press , we would like to see him do and say the right things. I have been enjoying this thread. Nobody has picked any fights. Just friendly conversation and a lot of good info about rusters. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Richard Kowalski wrote: > Ok, Judge Judy just ended, Judge Alex is on now, but I'll take a minute to > post. > > There are so many interesting threads on this list and one extremely boring > one filled with nothing but gossip and opinions. Well like the other thing > that everyone else has, I have an opinion too. > > I see one angry framer. OK > I see Steve's response. OK > > Who do I believe? > > I haven't seen the contract. > I haven't seen a transcript of the meeting where they came to an agreement. > I wasn't there. > > The parties involved are in court as I write this. Since I have no > involvement in the case and don't have anywhere near all of the facts, I'll > sit and wait to see what the court decides. I'm just surprised that the > meteorite hunter is automatically considered to be at fault by many in the > community. > > Ohh, People's Court is on too! > Gotta go. > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography > IMCA #1081 > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Open Court
LOL! LOL! LOL! Stuart McD Richard Kowalski wrote: > Ok, Judge Judy just ended, Judge Alex is on now, but I'll take a minute to > post. > > There are so many interesting threads on this list and one extremely boring > one filled with nothing but gossip and opinions. Well like the other thing > that everyone else has, I have an opinion too. > > I see one angry framer. OK > I see Steve's response. OK > > Who do I believe? > > I haven't seen the contract. > I haven't seen a transcript of the meeting where they came to an agreement. > I wasn't there. > > The parties involved are in court as I write this. Since I have no > involvement in the case and don't have anywhere near all of the facts, I'll > sit and wait to see what the court decides. I'm just surprised that the > meteorite hunter is automatically considered to be at fault by many in the > community. > > Ohh, People's Court is on too! > Gotta go. > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography > IMCA #1081 > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Open Court
Ok, Judge Judy just ended, Judge Alex is on now, but I'll take a minute to post. There are so many interesting threads on this list and one extremely boring one filled with nothing but gossip and opinions. Well like the other thing that everyone else has, I have an opinion too. I see one angry framer. OK I see Steve's response. OK Who do I believe? I haven't seen the contract. I haven't seen a transcript of the meeting where they came to an agreement. I wasn't there. The parties involved are in court as I write this. Since I have no involvement in the case and don't have anywhere near all of the facts, I'll sit and wait to see what the court decides. I'm just surprised that the meteorite hunter is automatically considered to be at fault by many in the community. Ohh, People's Court is on too! Gotta go. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hi, For a scholarly discussion of Cathryn Prince's book which covers many of the topics below, go to www.meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com for a more focused discussion. Also see Prince's comment at the end of my blog by clicking on the pencil icon at the end of the post. As I mentioned in my blog, Greene and Burke's work is highly recommended. Thanks! Mark Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts Briarcliff Manor, NY - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 Silliman andWoodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE Hello Listers, Over the course of a few days I had done some research on the Weston meteorite fall and read up on Silliman's role and it could be summed up to these few quotes "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the earliest and best authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America." Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888 Source http://books.google.com/books?id=K6koYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA528#v=onepage&q&f=false "SILLIMAN, Benjamin, scientist, was born in North Stratford, Conn., Aug. 8, 1779 : son of Gold Selleck Silliman (q.v.) and Mary Fish (Noyes) Silliman. He was graduated at Yale, A.B., 1796, A.M., 1799 In 1805, he went abroad to study a year at Edinburgh and to buy books and apparatus. On his return, he studied the geology of New Haven, and in 1807 he examined the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn., making a chemical analysis of fragments, this report being the first scientific account of any American meteor." Cited from: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF NOTABLE AMERICANS I904 And lastly, a quote taken from James Woodhouse biography written by Edgar Fahs Smith stating Silliman's account of the Weston meteorite fall to be.. "An elaborate account of this meteor has been published by Messrs. Silliman and Kingsley, of Yale College, Connecticut." Source http://books.google.com/books?id=4JMEYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA274#v=onepage&q&f=false But what caught my interest was the dynamic roles that played with Silliman and Woodhouse and that some believed Woodhouse role with the Weston meteorite fall to be "loose and not depended on". Take a look at the link below and start at the top of the page. From what I can gather, Silliman and Woodhouse seemed to have a rivalry and few scholars felt the same way about Woodhouse work with the Weston meteorite being bad science. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false Now from my understanding Silliman and Kingsley arrived in Weston December 21 1807, a week after the Weston meteorite fall. During those few days Silliman and Kingsley interviewed witnesses and acquired fragments from various sites in Weston. Here is an excerpt from a letter detailing their accounts in Weston "Yale College, December 26, 1807. Messrs. Steele, & Co., As imperfect and erroneous accounts of the late phenomenon at Weston are finding their way into the public prints, we take the 1U berty of enclosing for your paper the result of an investigation into the circumstances and evidence of the event referred to, which we have made on the ground where it happened. That we may not interrupt our narration by repeating the observation wherever it is applicable, we may remark, once for all, that we visited and carefully examined every spot where the stones had been ascertained to have fallen, and several places where they had beeu only suspected, without any discovery; that we obtained specimens of every stone; conversed with all the principal original witnesses ; spent several days in the investigation, and were, at the time, the only persons who had explored the whole ground. We are, gentlemen, your obedient servants, BENJAMIN SILLIMAN. JAMES L. KINGSLEY. Cited from: THE AMERICAN REGISTER OR GENERAL REPOSITORY OF HISTORY, POLITICS, AND SCIENCE. PART II FOR 1807. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=SlrQMAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA267#v=onepage&q&f=false After Sillimans and Kingsley return from Weston, on December 29, 1807 Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A day later, December 30, 1807 Dr Benjamin Rush handed over some specimens from the Weston meteorite to James
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Thanks Steve!
I really appreciate your information, we can all learn to preserve
meteorites from yours and other's experience!!
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Steve Schoner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:27 PM
To: gmh...@centurylink.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Greg,
Actually just using the solution will not discolor the specimen. With that
Campo it was wire brushed and some type of wax placed on it to make it look
attractive.
When the rusting began, it was real bad, blebs of FeCl3 coming out in
numerous places.
The treatment worked and the result was a natural looking piece. (I can't
stand wire brushed irons).
What is interesting is that this Campo has some silicate inclusions and
these still retain fusion crust. So the year soak did not remove that
aspect of the the specimen.
The addition of zinc causes an electrolytic reaction as I found with the
Morosko. It was very aggressive, and the solution soon became a rusty soup
bubbling away as the zinc was being reduced.
Adding aluminum is even more aggressive. In essence you are creating a
battery where the electrons migrate from one type of metal to another.
You want the chlorine ions to migrate away from the iron to another
different metal such as zinc.
The downside is that zinc and or aluminum compounds will then be deposited
on the meteorite.
But these can be removed using white vinegar.
The way that sea salted iron artifacts are preserved use sodium hydroxide as
an electrolyte, another grid of metal separated from that and not touching
the side of the container and the artifact is the cathode and the grid the
anode. A micro current is applied and this forces the Chlorine ions from
the artifact to migrate toward the grid. In the process of travel they then
interact with the NaOH electrolyte and become salt NaCl The liberated OH
then moves over to the artifact and becomes a jelly like mass of Fe0H2-3.
When the process is finished, depending on the size of the artifact of
meteorite, when it dries out the FeOH2-3 becomes FeO2-3 as the hydrogen
leaves the weak bond to iron to bond to atmospheric oxygen, or just float up
and beyond to outer space.
Rather than deal with doing an electrolytic process adding a micro volt
source, a plastic container the meteorite, the solution just by itself seems
to work for most. If you have to add a piece of zinc set it of to the side,
of the plastic bowl so that it becomes part of the static battery.
As for slicing, it will go as deep as the the larger cracks, but not so much
the very fine hairline ones. So if you cut a treated specimen it is best to
then treat the slices.
I have found some amazing results with irons, using just the solution with
no addition of metal.
I polish and etch the iron slice, and then soak in the solution. It is
amazing what happens. First, blebs of jelly FeOH2-3 appear if chlorine is
still evident in the piece. But what this caustic soda does to the iron
minerals that don't etch, is astounding. They turn colors. Gold, iridescent
blue, like a rainbow.
With a metallurgic microscope, what previously was just a shiny surface with
no detail is now a beautiful etched iridescent beauty.
And better yet, I have found that it it is best to not coat the iron. Just
leave it. And handle it by the edges, like you would a fine coin.
Unless you touch it with finger prints it will stay beautiful.
Steve.
-- Original Message --
From: "Greg Hupe"
To: "Steve Schoner" ,
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:52:33 -0500
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the process you use. When I first moved to Florida I met with
some of the old time treasure hunters who shared their methods of conserving
ship wreck items (iron cannons, cannon balls, muskets, etc.) using the
Reverse Electrolysis method using Red Devil Lye or Soda Ash as the
electrolyte. They used electric current in their process, but it is nice to
know electricity is not necessary. I did some items for two years,
babysitting the process, replacing electrodes and solution every few months
(a very messy job). I think I will try your process as well.
After you have run your process on some of the irons or pallasites, have you
sliced them afterwards? Just curious if the process of soaking them somehow
stains or discolors them in any way.
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Steve Schoner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:37 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was
[meteorite-list] Inexpensive Etched Muonionalusta Specimens
Hi all, I am selling one Kilo of cut and etched Muonionalusta Meteorite specimens at my cost - .50 per gram - plus shipping. I want to sell the 1 kilo lot as one lot, but may break into two 500 gram lots or four, 250 gram lots if necessary. I will not sell in anything less than 250 gram lots. This will only happen once so first come first served. They range in size from 3-20 grams perfect for the dealer that likes to sell one at a time. I have sold a few on eBay and they sell really well. Just check my completed auctions to see. All specimens show an etched interior and typical Muonionalusta exterior. I did not etch these but bought many in Tucson this month. If some specimens need to be re-etched. Just mix up a batch of Nitol and etch - no problem. If you don't know how call me and I will help. See them here http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/meteoritemall/Muonionalusta%20Meteorites/ -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Botton Line
Hello, All; On average, when a person is upset, they tell a minimum of 10 people. When they are happy, they tell maybe one or two. How many of the upset folks have family and friends in other states? Upsetting the landowners at the Admire strewnfield, or anywhere else, can only end up bad for all of us who want to hunt other places. The bottom line is if you are on private property, you must respect the landowners and treat them right. Just my opinion! Dana -- KD Meteorites kdmeteorites.com admiremeteorites.com Keith and Dana Jenkerson 4596 N. Vickie Lane Kingman, AZ., 86409 928-399-0140 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question
I purchased a 1.392g specimen of Eunice, TX which can be seen here: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Eunice_TX1_392g.jpg I forgot what I paid for it. Anyone got any ideas of what it is worth? RSVP Thanks, Michael -- "Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig" Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Greg,
Actually just using the solution will not discolor the specimen. With that
Campo it was wire brushed and some type of wax placed on it to make it look
attractive.
When the rusting began, it was real bad, blebs of FeCl3 coming out in numerous
places.
The treatment worked and the result was a natural looking piece. (I can't stand
wire brushed irons).
What is interesting is that this Campo has some silicate inclusions and these
still retain fusion crust. So the year soak did not remove that aspect of the
the specimen.
The addition of zinc causes an electrolytic reaction as I found with the
Morosko. It was very aggressive, and the solution soon became a rusty soup
bubbling away as the zinc was being reduced.
Adding aluminum is even more aggressive. In essence you are creating a battery
where the electrons migrate from one type of metal to another.
You want the chlorine ions to migrate away from the iron to another different
metal such as zinc.
The downside is that zinc and or aluminum compounds will then be deposited on
the meteorite.
But these can be removed using white vinegar.
The way that sea salted iron artifacts are preserved use sodium hydroxide as an
electrolyte, another grid of metal separated from that and not touching the
side of the container and the artifact is the cathode and the grid the anode.
A micro current is applied and this forces the Chlorine ions from the artifact
to migrate toward the grid. In the process of travel they then interact with
the NaOH electrolyte and become salt NaCl The liberated OH then moves over to
the artifact and becomes a jelly like mass of Fe0H2-3. When the process is
finished, depending on the size of the artifact of meteorite, when it dries out
the FeOH2-3 becomes FeO2-3 as the hydrogen leaves the weak bond to iron to bond
to atmospheric oxygen, or just float up and beyond to outer space.
Rather than deal with doing an electrolytic process adding a micro volt source,
a plastic container the meteorite, the solution just by itself seems to work
for most. If you have to add a piece of zinc set it of to the side, of the
plastic bowl so that it becomes part of the static battery.
As for slicing, it will go as deep as the the larger cracks, but not so much
the very fine hairline ones. So if you cut a treated specimen it is best to
then treat the slices.
I have found some amazing results with irons, using just the solution with no
addition of metal.
I polish and etch the iron slice, and then soak in the solution. It is amazing
what happens. First, blebs of jelly FeOH2-3 appear if chlorine is still
evident in the piece. But what this caustic soda does to the iron minerals
that don't etch, is astounding. They turn colors. Gold, iridescent blue, like
a rainbow.
With a metallurgic microscope, what previously was just a shiny surface with no
detail is now a beautiful etched iridescent beauty.
And better yet, I have found that it it is best to not coat the iron. Just
leave it. And handle it by the edges, like you would a fine coin.
Unless you touch it with finger prints it will stay beautiful.
Steve.
-- Original Message --
From: "Greg Hupe"
To: "Steve Schoner" ,
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:52:33 -0500
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the process you use. When I first moved to Florida I met with
some of the old time treasure hunters who shared their methods of conserving
ship wreck items (iron cannons, cannon balls, muskets, etc.) using the
Reverse Electrolysis method using Red Devil Lye or Soda Ash as the
electrolyte. They used electric current in their process, but it is nice to
know electricity is not necessary. I did some items for two years,
babysitting the process, replacing electrodes and solution every few months
(a very messy job). I think I will try your process as well.
After you have run your process on some of the irons or pallasites, have you
sliced them afterwards? Just curious if the process of soaking them somehow
stains or discolors them in any way.
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Steve Schoner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:37 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
30 years ago, I developed a simple process for treating these rusters using
white sodium hydroxide crystals (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most
groceries), 70% rubbing alcohol and distilled water.
With it I have treated effectively meteorites up to 150 lbs.
I have sitting in my corner a 150 lb Campo that was rusting so badly that I
could hear the flakes popping off and falling to the floor.
Pounds of rust flakes fell off of it.
So, to solve this problem I rolled and muscled the 150
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
I find it amazing and disheartening that a meteorite can be looked upon as no good and almost worthless. In all my years as a collector I have never seen this, and I think it's sad in a way, as the goal of making money has somehow started to supersede the enjoyment of being a meteorite hunter and collector; at least to me. Researching the meteorites, driving to location, and hunting has always been such a love of mine, whatever I find. I remember on the Meteorite Men show when they found the Alpha stones and all the excitement there... seems to diminish it a bit now. Greg S. > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:28:31 + > From: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorite...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be > living With For a While > > Why not just slice them up, flood the market with large slices to drive the > price down, that way we can ALL afford a huge slice, and give them their > 25%?? If there are that many stones floating around would that not be an > option?? That way people that have always wanted a nice big slice could > afford one. I have always been told it "was better to make a fast nickel than > a slow dime". I am sure if the price was down around .25 to .50/gr people > would be buying them like crazy. > > Stuart McD > > Jason Utas wrote: > > Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of > > what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the > > video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned > > 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it > > seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of > > settling the dispute. > > Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though > > he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest > > solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that > > the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. > > But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least > > they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly > > the case given what was said in the video. > > Jason > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > > > Bill, Phil, list, > > > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally > > > diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. > > > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become > > > partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. > > > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. > > > But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since > > > the de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on > > > virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. > > > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. > > > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing > > > for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. > > > Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. > > > Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake > > > something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to > > > easy to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these > > > stones came from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be > > > honest but, you cannot depend on that in the real world. > > > I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good > > > people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan > > > and sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this > > > venture. > > > They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good > > > for the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as > > > quickly as possible. > > > Carl > > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > > > > bill kies wrote: > > >> > > >> Steve, > > >> > > >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to > > >> take a gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the > > >> business world but where does this leave humble collectors with no > > >> agenda other than the desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare > > >> opportunity presents itself? Surely you remember those days, even though > > >> you aren't a collector, as they were not all that long ago. > > >> > > >> Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these > > >> people happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were > > >> worthy of. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > > >> > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > > >> > meteorite-list@meteor
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the process you use. When I first moved to Florida I met with
some of the old time treasure hunters who shared their methods of conserving
ship wreck items (iron cannons, cannon balls, muskets, etc.) using the
Reverse Electrolysis method using Red Devil Lye or Soda Ash as the
electrolyte. They used electric current in their process, but it is nice to
know electricity is not necessary. I did some items for two years,
babysitting the process, replacing electrodes and solution every few months
(a very messy job). I think I will try your process as well.
After you have run your process on some of the irons or pallasites, have you
sliced them afterwards? Just curious if the process of soaking them somehow
stains or discolors them in any way.
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Steve Schoner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:37 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
30 years ago, I developed a simple process for treating these rusters using
white sodium hydroxide crystals (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most
groceries), 70% rubbing alcohol and distilled water.
With it I have treated effectively meteorites up to 150 lbs.
I have sitting in my corner a 150 lb Campo that was rusting so badly that I
could hear the flakes popping off and falling to the floor.
Pounds of rust flakes fell off of it.
So, to solve this problem I rolled and muscled the 150 lbs ruster into the
plastic shipping container and righted it up.
And I used my solution tried and tested with many variations over the last
30 years.
1lb Red Devil Lye (white crystals)
Two gallons of store bought rubbing alcohol. (Usually in plastic bottles of
quart size for less than $2 ea)
Two gallons of distilled water.
And a medium sized plastic shipping container with lid.
Mix half a pound of Red Devil Lye in 2 gal of water. Do it in small amounts
as the reaction is exothermic and the water will get hot.
When done, mix this into the two gal of rubbing alcohol.
You will have the remaining half pound of lye crystals to add if you decide
to repeat the process a second time, or you can add increments more till you
see that brine begins to form what look like bubbles at the bottom of the
plastic container.
Then I poured the solution into the plastic shipping container holding the
150 lb Campo, and covered it with the plastic lid.
And...
I let it sit for a year. Yes, that is right, a year for big specimens.
Over that time I monitored it to see the progress. Numerous green blobs
appeared over the meteorite. I could see streamers of rust coming off of
it. And the solution at the bottom of the plastic container took on a rusty
hue. And so I let the process work for a year.
Result...
Used a plastic hand pump to remove the tainted solution. The chlorides that
caused the meteorite to rust now converted to NaCl (salt) in solution, taken
out.
I then replaced it with two gallons of distilled water to further remove the
salty water and residual NaOH. Let is soak for a couple of weeks. Repeated
the process for another couple of weeks.
And finally rolled the 150 lb Campo out to dry and for the last 7 years it
has sat in my corner, no longer popping of rust flakes.
It is cured, and actually looks like it was freshly dug up and cleaned of
dirt.
Now I recently tried another ruster: Morasko.
I have 690 gm complete specimen that started to rust. Placed it in a a
small batch of my solution and let it sit for several months. It was cured.
But in this case I did something else with it. I put a piece of zinc off to
the side of it. This actually caused an electrolytic reaction where the
Chlorine ions were attracted to the zinc and the zinc in turn became a
deposit on the meteorite giving it a rather un-natural appearance. So to
correct this, I then soaked the Morasko in white vinegar for a week, and the
result was a natural looking piece.
And non rusting.
So I have used this on not only these rusters and some pallastes, but even a
mesosiderite, the notorious ruster, Lamont, KS, one that I discovered in
1996.
I have used it on iron slices, too.
Depending on the size of the specimen the soak time varies. Small thin
pieces a couple of weeks. Really big ones such as the 150 lb Campo a year
or more.
In all of these cases it worked.
The tech is free to all.
Try it, you have nothing to lose with a meteorite that rusting away anyway.
Steve Schoner
www.petroslides.com
IMCA 4470
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:12:27 -0500
From: Michael Gilmer
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
trials...}
To: Greg Hupe
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Gr
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
30 years ago, I developed a simple process for treating these rusters using
white sodium hydroxide crystals (Red Devil Lye which can be bought at most
groceries), 70% rubbing alcohol and distilled water.
With it I have treated effectively meteorites up to 150 lbs.
I have sitting in my corner a 150 lb Campo that was rusting so badly that I
could hear the flakes popping off and falling to the floor.
Pounds of rust flakes fell off of it.
So, to solve this problem I rolled and muscled the 150 lbs ruster into the
plastic shipping container and righted it up.
And I used my solution tried and tested with many variations over the last 30
years.
1lb Red Devil Lye (white crystals)
Two gallons of store bought rubbing alcohol. (Usually in plastic bottles of
quart size for less than $2 ea)
Two gallons of distilled water.
And a medium sized plastic shipping container with lid.
Mix half a pound of Red Devil Lye in 2 gal of water. Do it in small amounts as
the reaction is exothermic and the water will get hot.
When done, mix this into the two gal of rubbing alcohol.
You will have the remaining half pound of lye crystals to add if you decide to
repeat the process a second time, or you can add increments more till you see
that brine begins to form what look like bubbles at the bottom of the plastic
container.
Then I poured the solution into the plastic shipping container holding the 150
lb Campo, and covered it with the plastic lid.
And...
I let it sit for a year. Yes, that is right, a year for big specimens.
Over that time I monitored it to see the progress. Numerous green blobs
appeared over the meteorite. I could see streamers of rust coming off of it.
And the solution at the bottom of the plastic container took on a rusty hue.
And so I let the process work for a year.
Result...
Used a plastic hand pump to remove the tainted solution. The chlorides that
caused the meteorite to rust now converted to NaCl (salt) in solution, taken
out.
I then replaced it with two gallons of distilled water to further remove the
salty water and residual NaOH. Let is soak for a couple of weeks. Repeated
the process for another couple of weeks.
And finally rolled the 150 lb Campo out to dry and for the last 7 years it has
sat in my corner, no longer popping of rust flakes.
It is cured, and actually looks like it was freshly dug up and cleaned of dirt.
Now I recently tried another ruster: Morasko.
I have 690 gm complete specimen that started to rust. Placed it in a a small
batch of my solution and let it sit for several months. It was cured. But in
this case I did something else with it. I put a piece of zinc off to the side
of it. This actually caused an electrolytic reaction where the Chlorine ions
were attracted to the zinc and the zinc in turn became a deposit on the
meteorite giving it a rather un-natural appearance. So to correct this, I then
soaked the Morasko in white vinegar for a week, and the result was a natural
looking piece.
And non rusting.
So I have used this on not only these rusters and some pallastes, but even a
mesosiderite, the notorious ruster, Lamont, KS, one that I discovered in 1996.
I have used it on iron slices, too.
Depending on the size of the specimen the soak time varies. Small thin pieces
a couple of weeks. Really big ones such as the 150 lb Campo a year or more.
In all of these cases it worked.
The tech is free to all.
Try it, you have nothing to lose with a meteorite that rusting away anyway.
Steve Schoner
www.petroslides.com
IMCA 4470
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:12:27 -0500
From: Michael Gilmer
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The
trials...}
To: Greg Hupe
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Greg and List,
You won't regret contacting Pat. I'm not saying that Pat is some kind
of magician, but his results are almost "magical".
For example, I will give an example from a fellow List-member's
experience. This person can chime in if they want, but I won't
mention the name because this person has no idea I was going to offer
up a testimonial on their behalf.
Having said that, this person bought one of Pat's Campos that is about
the size of grapefruit. This Campo now resides in one of the wettest
climates in the Western hemisphere. In addition to the wet location,
this Campo is used in outreach/educational work and it comes into
contact with dozens of sweaty little kid hands on a regular basis.
After over a year of this exposure, the specimen still shows no sign
of rusting.
Another specimen went to a prominent amateur astronomer (not a list
member) who uses the Campo in outreach work also - again, this
specimen comes into contact with sweaty little hands and is kept out
in the open without any special precautions to prevent rust. And this
specimen also shows no signs of rusting after several months of th
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Why not just slice them up, flood the market with large slices to drive the price down, that way we can ALL afford a huge slice, and give them their 25%?? If there are that many stones floating around would that not be an option?? That way people that have always wanted a nice big slice could afford one. I have always been told it "was better to make a fast nickel than a slow dime". I am sure if the price was down around .25 to .50/gr people would be buying them like crazy. Stuart McD Jason Utas wrote: > Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of > what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the > video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned > 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it > seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of > settling the dispute. > Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though > he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest > solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that > the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. > But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least > they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly > the case given what was said in the video. > Jason > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > > Bill, Phil, list, > > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally > > diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. > > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become > > partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. > > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. > > But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the > > de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on > > virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. > > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. > > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing > > for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. > > Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. > > Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake > > something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy > > to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came > > from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you > > cannot depend on that in the real world. > > I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good > > people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan and > > sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture. > > They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good for > > the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as > > possible. > > Carl > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > bill kies wrote: > >> > >> Steve, > >> > >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take > >> a gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world > >> but where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the > >> desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents > >> itself? Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a > >> collector, as they were not all that long ago. > >> > >> Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people > >> happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > >> > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > >> > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> > From: meteorh...@aol.com > >> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing > >> > withLando wners > >> > > >> > Hello List, > >> > > >> > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > >> > > >> > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > >> > > >> > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they > >> > combined some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting > >> > for meteorites together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas > >> > where pallasites had been found in the past. > >> > > >> > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > >> > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > >> > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no > >> > talk of Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We > >> > just started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my > >> > friends, at least 8 of us in the group, were
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Hello Carl and List, I wanted to interject here that in pallasite crystals there are inclusions that have been found only in pallasite peridot and not in earthly peridot. This is how the GIA is able to distinguish between extraterrestrial peridot and earth found peridot. The GIA actually gave pallasite peridot its own name in the gem registry as extraterrestrial peridot, which is now being taught to gemologist as such. Sincerely, Jason Phillips - Original Message From: "cdtuc...@cox.net" To: meteorh...@aol.com; bill kies Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 10:38:13 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While Bill, Phil, list, It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you cannot depend on that in the real world. I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan and sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture. They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good for the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as possible. Carl Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax bill kies wrote: > > Steve, > > If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take a >gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world but >where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the desire >to >pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents itself? Surely >you >remember those days, even though you aren't a collector, as they were not all >that long ago. > > Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people >happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. > > Bill > > > > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; >meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > From: meteorh...@aol.com > > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing >withLando wners > > > > Hello List, > > > > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > > > > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > > > > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined >some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for meteorites >together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where pallasites had >been found in the past. > > > > > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite >meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > > > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk > > of >Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just started >hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at least 8 of >us >in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we decided to try to >sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we tried, and we sold one >meteorite. We contacted virtually all the institutions with notable meteorite >collections and none of them wanted to either buy or to trade for any of our >specimens. The one sale was made, and the land owner from where this meteorite >came from got his contracted percentage royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It >was >truly money from heaven for him. > > > > > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being > > the >worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, Brenham >or >any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could understand why no one wanted >to >buy any more of this meteorite. It was just too big of a risk for people to >take. > > > > > As we kept finding more and more meteorites, we were challenged
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
when I went to West or ash creek the first place i went was to the local feed mill. I talked to the farmers and talked to them about what I knew about meteorites. I didnt give them any stories of ritches to be made. I did tell them of the educational value for thier kids and grandkids. I also showed them metorites i brought with me and told them as much as I knew what to look for. As a result I secured 10k acres of prime west hunting grounds. Right in the middle of the strewn field. Some of the other hunters who later asked permission to hunt with promises of money and ritches were told to Fo . Unfortunatly after securing prime teritory we got a phone call from home and my girls house was on fire. My truck was next to her house and i almost lost it too. I showed the farmers what to look for and the biggest piece of ash creek was the result. Cheers Steve Dunklee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Beliving With For a While
Darren, that was funny. We needed that. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Darren Garrison wrote: > On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:50:47 -0500, you wrote: > >By what I have read and watched, it sounds like the simple remedy of > >returning 25% of the material might not be an option. It would depend on how > >many of the stones have been dissolved away in the acid baths. > > The farmer seeme pretty displeased with Steve as a person-- perhaps he'd be > willing to settle for Steve dissolving away 25% of himself in an acid bath. > One > arm and one leg would likely suffice. > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Beliving With For a While
Greg, I did see a huge Alpha stone in Geoff's room at the Gem show. I believe it was the one found on the show But, if these farmers agreed to let Steve melt all of the stones then you get what you get. One of the shows showed at least one being melted. If there are any left mikeG's suggestion seems to me the best. Get them sliced and stabilized and sold. And hope Lindsay Lohan steals the rest (Phil is too funny). Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Greg Hupe wrote: > All, > By what I have read and watched, it sounds like the simple remedy of > returning 25% of the material might not be an option. It would depend on how > many of the stones have been dissolved away in the acid baths. There may not > be any stones left to return 25% of the material to the consortium of > farmers. Maybe just the rough peridot crystals and faceted ones are all that > is left. This info is probably only known by group of Palladot company > officers. > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > -Original Message- > From: Greg Catterton > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:31 PM > To: Meteorite-list ; Jason Utas > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll > Beliving With For a While > > If the deal was not completed, would it not be more respectful to return all > the material if 25% of cash can not be paid? > I personally dont think its the landowners at fault or in the wrong from > what I have read. > He offered 25% of profits, if there is no profit, why not just return the > material - all of it rather then 25%. > Between this and the BS story of the WI main mass... which I cant understand > why it was ever published... and West with hunters getting kicked off only > to return to the land in different clothes ouch. Its going to start > adding up guys. > > Greg Catterton > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > IMCA member 4682 > On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites > On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites > > > --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Jason Utas wrote: > > > From: Jason Utas > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be > > living With For a While > > To: "Meteorite-list" > > Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM > > Greg, All, > > Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you > > can propose > > some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of > > the finds in > > a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as > > a fair > > compromise. The impression I got from watching that > > video was that > > the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of > > the > > meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and > > that he > > didn't think he would be paid for. He said it > > repeatedly - if you > > have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted > > his 25%, but I > > have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt > > return of 25% of > > the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might > > not come for > > decades. If they would be unhappy with such an > > agreement, why not up > > their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it > > sounds to say > > this, it's not like the material is selling, after > > all. Given what > > was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can > > assume this to > > be true... > > Regards, > > Jason > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone > > wrote: > > > > > > All: > > > > > > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad > > because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he > > wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was > > promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the > > reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think > > the best solution is to find the best way to market these > > meteorites and sell them and get the money to the > > landowners. > > > > > > Greg S. > > > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 > > >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com > > >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials > > and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While > > >> > > >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve > > only return 25% of > > >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 > > (mentioned in the > > >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely > > settled if Steve turned > > >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the > > money's not there, it > > >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and > > easiest means of > > >> settling the dispute. > > >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to > > it all even though > > >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to > > be the easiest > > >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside > > from the fact that > > >> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money > > for their rocks.
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Beliving With For a While
On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:50:47 -0500, you wrote: >By what I have read and watched, it sounds like the simple remedy of >returning 25% of the material might not be an option. It would depend on how >many of the stones have been dissolved away in the acid baths. The farmer seeme pretty displeased with Steve as a person-- perhaps he'd be willing to settle for Steve dissolving away 25% of himself in an acid bath. One arm and one leg would likely suffice. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
I agree, there is no harm in admitting failure and moving on as long as an honest effort was put into it and the intentions where right from the beginning. In my opinion, the biggest mistake was quoting outrageous values in the first place. A good dealer would recognize the true value and provide realistic figures to landowners. There is a track record for this meteorite dating back over 100 years and prices were known to be on the decline for the last decade. No amount of wishful thinking will bring up the price as the supply is dramatically increasing. To have a huffed farmer on the loose badmouthing people involved with meteorites is doing major damage. The farmers expectations seem way out of line with reality which is a major problem these days. Nearly every farmer I have met has been fairly pragmatic, honest and not all that quick to judge. A lot of them have college educations. This guy is really mad and people will listen. Everybody thinks a quick buck can be made by selling meteorites but in the real world, it takes a lot of hard work and patience. It would be in the interest of everybody to settle with this farmer immediately before his pride throws him into some kind of crusade. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Greg Catterton To: Meteorite-list ; Jason Utas Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 9:31:27 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While If the deal was not completed, would it not be more respectful to return all the material if 25% of cash can not be paid? I personally dont think its the landowners at fault or in the wrong from what I have read. He offered 25% of profits, if there is no profit, why not just return the material - all of it rather then 25%. Between this and the BS story of the WI main mass... which I cant understand why it was ever published... and West with hunters getting kicked off only to return to the land in different clothes ouch. Its going to start adding up guys. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Jason Utas wrote: > From: Jason Utas > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be >living With For a While > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM > Greg, All, > Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you > can propose > some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of > the finds in > a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as > a fair > compromise. The impression I got from watching that > video was that > the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of > the > meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and > that he > didn't think he would be paid for. He said it > repeatedly - if you > have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted > his 25%, but I > have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt > return of 25% of > the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might > not come for > decades. If they would be unhappy with such an > agreement, why not up > their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it > sounds to say > this, it's not like the material is selling, after > all. Given what > was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can > assume this to > be true... > Regards, > Jason > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone > wrote: > > > > All: > > > > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad > because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he > wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was > promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the > reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think > the best solution is to find the best way to market these > meteorites and sell them and get the money to the > landowners. > > > > Greg S. > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 > >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com > >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials > and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While > >> > >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve > only return 25% of > >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 > (mentioned in the > >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely > settled if Steve turned > >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the > money's not there, it > >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and > easiest means of > >> settling the dispute. > >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to > it all even though > >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to > be the easiest > >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside > from the fact that > >> the farmers wo
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
LOL! There must be something in kid sweat that retards rust! :)
On 2/22/11, Anita Westlake wrote:
> Sounds to me like the solution is to let little kids handle your rusters
> with
> their sweaty little hands!
> Anita
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Michael Gilmer
> To: Greg Hupe
> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:12:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
>
> Hi Greg and List,
>
> You won't regret contacting Pat. I'm not saying that Pat is some kind
> of magician, but his results are almost "magical".
>
> For example, I will give an example from a fellow List-member's
> experience. This person can chime in if they want, but I won't
> mention the name because this person has no idea I was going to offer
> up a testimonial on their behalf.
>
> Having said that, this person bought one of Pat's Campos that is about
> the size of grapefruit. This Campo now resides in one of the wettest
> climates in the Western hemisphere. In addition to the wet location,
> this Campo is used in outreach/educational work and it comes into
> contact with dozens of sweaty little kid hands on a regular basis.
> After over a year of this exposure, the specimen still shows no sign
> of rusting.
>
> Another specimen went to a prominent amateur astronomer (not a list
> member) who uses the Campo in outreach work also - again, this
> specimen comes into contact with sweaty little hands and is kept out
> in the open without any special precautions to prevent rust. And this
> specimen also shows no signs of rusting after several months of this
> kind of "abuse".
>
> Pat's process also works on pallasites and I have sold a few of these
> specimens to buyers in various locales - and all of them are pleased
> with the stability of their pieces.
>
> In the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I do get a
> kickback from Pat for the business I refer to him. But, I am
> blatantly honest about meteorites (to the point of pissing off a lot
> of people) and I would wholeheatedly endorse his process even if I was
> not receiving a kickback. I love meteorites and I want all meteorites
> to be preserved and cherished for generations to come. I think it is
> a noble endeavor to save these hopeless rusters from oblivion and it
> is my wish that Pat's process should see widespread use to save
> specimens like Admire from a horrible fate. I'd much rather see an
> Admire mass saved through Pat's process, than to see it dissolved in
> acid and rendered down into a pile of olivines.
>
> I think most people would agree, that on an aesthetic basis, Admire is
> a beautiful pallasite. If it's propensity to rust is removed from the
> equation, then Admire could hold it's own against any other pallasite
> on the market. The same could be said for Brenham also.
>
> I'd love for the skeptics to try Pat's process and try to make a liar
> out of me. I truly believe, in due time, Pat is going to become
> well-known and respected for his work. As of right now, he is not
> widely known and he is much more available for work. Once word gets
> out about the effectiveness of his process, I fully expect there will
> be a long waiting-list for his services.
>
> Imagine a world full of stable Nantans, Campos, Droninos, Admires, and
> Brenhams! That would be a great thing and I hope more people will try
> Pat's process and see for themselves.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
> Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
> ---
>
> On 2/22/11, Greg Hupe wrote:
>> Hi MikeG,
>>
>> Thanks for the info, will be contacting Pat sometime soon. While I would
>> never expect anyone to give up their secret processes, I had to ask since
>> I
>> have used one of the processes in the past. This thread fits in perfectly
>> with the thread discussing the destruction of pallasites for gems, there
>> seems to be an alternative out there.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> gmh...@centurylink.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael Gilmer
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:52 AM
>> To: Greg Hupe
>> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
>>
>> Hi Greg and List,
>>
>> Pat is a chemist by trade and I do not know all of the specifics
>> regarding his process. But I have seen the results first-hand and I
>> kn
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Beliving With For a While
All, By what I have read and watched, it sounds like the simple remedy of returning 25% of the material might not be an option. It would depend on how many of the stones have been dissolved away in the acid baths. There may not be any stones left to return 25% of the material to the consortium of farmers. Maybe just the rough peridot crystals and faceted ones are all that is left. This info is probably only known by group of Palladot company officers. Best Regards, Greg -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:31 PM To: Meteorite-list ; Jason Utas Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Beliving With For a While If the deal was not completed, would it not be more respectful to return all the material if 25% of cash can not be paid? I personally dont think its the landowners at fault or in the wrong from what I have read. He offered 25% of profits, if there is no profit, why not just return the material - all of it rather then 25%. Between this and the BS story of the WI main mass... which I cant understand why it was ever published... and West with hunters getting kicked off only to return to the land in different clothes ouch. Its going to start adding up guys. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Jason Utas wrote: From: Jason Utas Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While To: "Meteorite-list" Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM Greg, All, Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you can propose some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of the finds in a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as a fair compromise. The impression I got from watching that video was that the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of the meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and that he didn't think he would be paid for. He said it repeatedly - if you have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted his 25%, but I have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt return of 25% of the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might not come for decades. If they would be unhappy with such an agreement, why not up their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it sounds to say this, it's not like the material is selling, after all. Given what was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can assume this to be true... Regards, Jason On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone wrote: > > All: > > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think the best solution is to find the best way to market these meteorites and sell them and get the money to the landowners. > > Greg S. > > >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While >> >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of >> settling the dispute. >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that >> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. >> But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least >> they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly >> the case given what was said in the video. >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: >> > Bill, Phil, list, >> > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. >> > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. >> > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. >> > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and hi
[meteorite-list] Weston meteorite fall 1807 .... Silliman and Woodhouse, RIVALRY or BAD SCIENCE????
Hello Listers, Over the course of a few days I had done some research on the Weston meteorite fall and read up on Silliman's role and it could be summed up to these few quotes "His scientific work, which was extensive, began with the examination in 1807 of the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn. He procured fragments, of which he made a chemical analysis, and he wrote the earliest and best authenticated account' of the fall of a meteor in America." Cited from: APPLETONS' CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY VOL V. PICKERING-SUMTER 1888 Source http://books.google.com/books?id=K6koYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA528#v=onepage&q&f=false "SILLIMAN, Benjamin, scientist, was born in North Stratford, Conn., Aug. 8, 1779 : son of Gold Selleck Silliman (q.v.) and Mary Fish (Noyes) Silliman. He was graduated at Yale, A.B., 1796, A.M., 1799 In 1805, he went abroad to study a year at Edinburgh and to buy books and apparatus. On his return, he studied the geology of New Haven, and in 1807 he examined the meteor that fell near Weston, Conn., making a chemical analysis of fragments, this report being the first scientific account of any American meteor." Cited from: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF NOTABLE AMERICANS I904 And lastly, a quote taken from James Woodhouse biography written by Edgar Fahs Smith stating Silliman's account of the Weston meteorite fall to be.. "An elaborate account of this meteor has been published by Messrs. Silliman and Kingsley, of Yale College, Connecticut." Source http://books.google.com/books?id=4JMEYAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA274#v=onepage&q&f=false But what caught my interest was the dynamic roles that played with Silliman and Woodhouse and that some believed Woodhouse role with the Weston meteorite fall to be "loose and not depended on". Take a look at the link below and start at the top of the page. From what I can gather, Silliman and Woodhouse seemed to have a rivalry and few scholars felt the same way about Woodhouse work with the Weston meteorite being bad science. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=BUsLIAAJ&lpg=PA285&dq=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum%2C%205%2C%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&pg=PA285#v=onepage&q=Philadelphia%20Medical%20Museum,%205,%202%20(1808)%20woodhouse&f=false Now from my understanding Silliman and Kingsley arrived in Weston December 21 1807, a week after the Weston meteorite fall. During those few days Silliman and Kingsley interviewed witnesses and acquired fragments from various sites in Weston. Here is an excerpt from a letter detailing their accounts in Weston "Yale College, December 26, 1807. Messrs. Steele, & Co., As imperfect and erroneous accounts of the late phenomenon at Weston are finding their way into the public prints, we take the 1U berty of enclosing for your paper the result of an investigation into the circumstances and evidence of the event referred to, which we have made on the ground where it happened. That we may not interrupt our narration by repeating the observation wherever it is applicable, we may remark, once for all, that we visited and carefully examined every spot where the stones had been ascertained to have fallen, and several places where they had beeu only suspected, without any discovery; that we obtained specimens of every stone; conversed with all the principal original witnesses ; spent several days in the investigation, and were, at the time, the only persons who had explored the whole ground. We are, gentlemen, your obedient servants, BENJAMIN SILLIMAN. JAMES L. KINGSLEY. Cited from: THE AMERICAN REGISTER OR GENERAL REPOSITORY OF HISTORY, POLITICS, AND SCIENCE. PART II FOR 1807. Source http://books.google.com/books?id=SlrQMAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA267#v=onepage&q&f=false After Sillimans and Kingsley return from Weston, on December 29, 1807 Silliman and Kingsley sent a preliminary description of the fall phenomena and the stones to The Connecticut Herald, in New Haven, making the report one of the first published report on the Weston meteorite fall.( Marvin B47 2007, The origins of modern meteorite research) A day later, December 30, 1807 Dr Benjamin Rush handed over some specimens from the Weston meteorite to James Woodhouse for analysis. Cited from: http://books.google.com/books?id=SlrQMAAJ&dq=weston%20meteorite%201807%20woodhouse&pg=PA267#v=onepage&q&f=false And now this is where the dilemma lays with Silliman and Woodhouse and the rivalry between the two could have started. Stated earlier, in January 1808 Silliman's manuscript accounts the analysis of the Weston fall and at that time Woodhouse's analysis had been unpublished and to some felt his work to be unsound and loose. "On 1808 March 4, the memoir by Silliman and Kingsley was read to the American Philosophical Society and assigned to refe
Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for meteorites : )
This wasn't on a meteorite hunt, it was while my husband and I were out playing paintball in an 'unimproved' section of Windward Oahu. Renegade fields are not uncommon, sharing ground with hikers and pig hunters, and the players all parked their cars at the foot of some deeply eroded areas and hiked into the field, maybe a half mile. No one had a 4x4 that day, but obviously people had managed to get Jeeps and other vehicles up the very poor tracks into the area. While we were playing, several people decided to explore the farther ends of the field. At the end of one of the Jeep trails, there was a collection of long-abandoned shacks, Quonset huts, and stripped cars, one of which was a brand new van from a music store. It looked like someone had been using this area to dump stolen vehicles, after taking what they wanted. We finished playing and called the police on the van; we had no idea how they had managed to wriggle that van up into that area. Maybe pot farmers? Aside from the van, nothing else in the area looked like it had been used for years. It could have been someone's homestead, or even an abandoned WWII storage area. Best! Tracy Latimer > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 22:12:08 -0500 > From: meteoritem...@gmail.com > To: joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com > CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for > meteorites : ) > > Yeah, when we first found it, we were a little apprehensive. Our > first reaction was to high-tail it out of there before some crazy hobo > emerged from the lean-to pointing a gun at us. But we soon realized > that the site had been abandoned for some time, so we looked around a > bit and poked through the debris, looking for anything of interest or > value. It did feel really weird, because I kept wondering where the > camp owner went, who he/she was, and why they were living in a crude > camp out in the middle of nowhere. Was it someone on the run from the > law? Someone down on their luck? Or were they doing something > illegal out there? It made the hair on the back of my neck stand up a > bit, and my hand was close to my Arkansas toothpick the whole time we > were there. > > > > On 2/21/11, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > > Mike: > > I stumbled upon almost the exact same setup while traipsing through the > > dense thicket looking for soft-shell turtles somewhere in the middle of > > Florida back in the late 1970s. I thought it was some kind of camp for > > runaway kids. It would be weird to live in those conditions. I kept thinking > > a psycho was about to murder me at any minute so I didn't stay long. > > > > Phil Whitmer > > > > - > > > > While not a meteorite story, my stepson and I did find something > > strange while hunting for fossils and arrowheads. While exploring a > > wooded area near the Hillsborough River, just outside of Tampa, we > > stumbled across an abandoned homeless camp. There was a lean-to with > > a mattress in it, a big plastic kiddie pool (for bathing and/or > > catching rainwater), the remnants of a garden, an animal coop, and a > > very odd assortment of bottles, buckets, birdhouses, and other > > objects. This out in the middle of a densely-wooded area, far off any > > trails, and it was a little spooky because it was hidden so well. > > Everything was low to the ground and concealed with palmetto fronds > > and vegetation. We literally walked right into the middle of it > > before we saw it. We took a few photos, logged the GPS coordinates, > > and kept on going. > > > > Best regards, > > > > MikeG > > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > -- > Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites > > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone > Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 > --- > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
A while back I asked about gem quality periodot so i could have a ring made from a stone from the heavens for my Angel. There is a market if done right. Unfortunately the color of the periodots or paladots women do not find attractive. I ended up getting her a almost flawless half carat champane diamond surounded by white saphires. The total cost having the ring made was less than $400. I sincerely believe that marketing some of the black to brown stones not considered gem quality but still beautiful if cut right would be more accepted as paladots. When you think of a meteorite most people think black and burned. So go with what people expect to see and you will have something. Plus all terestrial periodots are green to yellow. There would be no faking a black stone and it has no scientific value. There will be no market for a light colored periodot from a meteorite with so many gem quality periodot from other sources. I have some black periodots from Brenham meteorites and they look awesome when cut __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
If the deal was not completed, would it not be more respectful to return all the material if 25% of cash can not be paid? I personally dont think its the landowners at fault or in the wrong from what I have read. He offered 25% of profits, if there is no profit, why not just return the material - all of it rather then 25%. Between this and the BS story of the WI main mass... which I cant understand why it was ever published... and West with hunters getting kicked off only to return to the land in different clothes ouch. Its going to start adding up guys. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Jason Utas wrote: > From: Jason Utas > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be > living With For a While > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM > Greg, All, > Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you > can propose > some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of > the finds in > a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as > a fair > compromise. The impression I got from watching that > video was that > the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of > the > meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and > that he > didn't think he would be paid for. He said it > repeatedly - if you > have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted > his 25%, but I > have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt > return of 25% of > the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might > not come for > decades. If they would be unhappy with such an > agreement, why not up > their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it > sounds to say > this, it's not like the material is selling, after > all. Given what > was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can > assume this to > be true... > Regards, > Jason > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone > wrote: > > > > All: > > > > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad > because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he > wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was > promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the > reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think > the best solution is to find the best way to market these > meteorites and sell them and get the money to the > landowners. > > > > Greg S. > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 > >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com > >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials > and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While > >> > >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve > only return 25% of > >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 > (mentioned in the > >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely > settled if Steve turned > >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the > money's not there, it > >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and > easiest means of > >> settling the dispute. > >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to > it all even though > >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to > be the easiest > >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside > from the fact that > >> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money > for their rocks. > >> But since it doesn't look like they're getting any > anyway, at least > >> they'd have less reason to think they'd been > cheated, which is clearly > >> the case given what was said in the video. > >> Jason > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > >> > Bill, Phil, list, > >> > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the > same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say > this but many of us agree with both of you. > >> > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan > are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The > venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. > >> > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried > marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am > hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had > two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on > virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. > >> > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and > his cartel. > >> > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. > Others are already competing for sales of these gems that > they possess. And nobody is buying them. > >> > Who could blame them? The potential for fake > stones is uncontrollable. Everything on the planet is being > faked today and when you can fake something with as little > as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake. > With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones > came from meteorites? Please. I trus
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Jewels
This exact circumstance Chauncey describes is similar to what happened with Moldavite. Unscrupulous vendors took advantage of the expensive green gems, fake green glass faceted gemstones flooded the market and caused too much uncertainty, and now most buyers demand that moldavite still be in the original condition and shape, even jewelry is wire wrapped with 14kt gold to show the surface and texture. Ty On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Chauncey Walden wrote: > The big problem with this is that unless the GIA (Gemological Institute of > America) could by testing certify that a particular stone was from space > instead of Arizona, Mexico, Egypt or wherever, there would always be a > problem with fraud. Bad money drives out good and that would certainly go > for space jewels also. It would only take a few tainted deals to kill the > whole market. > Chauncey > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Greg, All, Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you can propose some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of the finds in a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as a fair compromise. The impression I got from watching that video was that the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of the meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and that he didn't think he would be paid for. He said it repeatedly - if you have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted his 25%, but I have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt return of 25% of the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might not come for decades. If they would be unhappy with such an agreement, why not up their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it sounds to say this, it's not like the material is selling, after all. Given what was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can assume this to be true... Regards, Jason On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone wrote: > > All: > > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad because he was > promised a lot of money (I don't think he wants his rocks back) he just wants > the money he was promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the > reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think the best solution > is to find the best way to market these meteorites and sell them and get the > money to the landowners. > > Greg S. > > >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 >> From: meteorite...@gmail.com >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be >> living With For a While >> >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of >> settling the dispute. >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that >> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. >> But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least >> they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly >> the case given what was said in the video. >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: >> > Bill, Phil, list, >> > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally >> > diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. >> > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become >> > partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. >> > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. >> > But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since >> > the de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on >> > virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. >> > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. >> > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing >> > for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. >> > Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. >> > Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake >> > something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy >> > to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came >> > from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you >> > cannot depend on that in the real world. >> > I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good >> > people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan >> > and sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this >> > venture. >> > They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good >> > for the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as >> > quickly as possible. >> > Carl >> > Carl or Debbie Esparza >> > Meteoritemax >> > >> > >> > bill kies wrote: >> >> >> >> Steve, >> >> >> >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to >> >> take a gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business >> >> world but where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other >> >> than the desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity >> >> presents itself? Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a >> >> collector, as they were not all that long ago. >> >> >> >> Maybe you should return all the material yo
Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for meteorites : )
most interesting thing i ever found was a clutch of dino eggs about the same size as small chicken eggs and a partial human skeleton that dated to be about 20k years old. I notified the local police about the skeleton and they sent the crime lab down and did a recovery. Thats the last i saw of it so i suspect its still in the labs store room. My brother collects fossils so I gave him the eggs. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
All: In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think the best solution is to find the best way to market these meteorites and sell them and get the money to the landowners. Greg S. > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800 > From: meteorite...@gmail.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be > living With For a While > > Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of > what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the > video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned > 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it > seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of > settling the dispute. > Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though > he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest > solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that > the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. > But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least > they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly > the case given what was said in the video. > Jason > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > > Bill, Phil, list, > > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally > > diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. > > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become > > partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. > > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. > > But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the > > de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on > > virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. > > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. > > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing > > for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. > > Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. > > Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake > > something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy > > to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came > > from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you > > cannot depend on that in the real world. > > I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good > > people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan and > > sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture. > > They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good for > > the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as > > possible. > > Carl > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > bill kies wrote: > >> > >> Steve, > >> > >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take > >> a gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world > >> but where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the > >> desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents > >> itself? Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a > >> collector, as they were not all that long ago. > >> > >> Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people > >> happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > >> > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > >> > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> > From: meteorh...@aol.com > >> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing > >> > withLando wners > >> > > >> > Hello List, > >> > > >> > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > >> > > >> > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > >> > > >> > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they > >> > combined some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting > >> > for meteorites together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas > >> > where pallasites had been found in the past. > >> > > >> > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > >> > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > >> > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no > >> > talk of Millions, or thousands or even hundred
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Sounds to me like the solution is to let little kids handle your rusters with
their sweaty little hands!
Anita
From: Michael Gilmer
To: Greg Hupe
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi Greg and List,
You won't regret contacting Pat. I'm not saying that Pat is some kind
of magician, but his results are almost "magical".
For example, I will give an example from a fellow List-member's
experience. This person can chime in if they want, but I won't
mention the name because this person has no idea I was going to offer
up a testimonial on their behalf.
Having said that, this person bought one of Pat's Campos that is about
the size of grapefruit. This Campo now resides in one of the wettest
climates in the Western hemisphere. In addition to the wet location,
this Campo is used in outreach/educational work and it comes into
contact with dozens of sweaty little kid hands on a regular basis.
After over a year of this exposure, the specimen still shows no sign
of rusting.
Another specimen went to a prominent amateur astronomer (not a list
member) who uses the Campo in outreach work also - again, this
specimen comes into contact with sweaty little hands and is kept out
in the open without any special precautions to prevent rust. And this
specimen also shows no signs of rusting after several months of this
kind of "abuse".
Pat's process also works on pallasites and I have sold a few of these
specimens to buyers in various locales - and all of them are pleased
with the stability of their pieces.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I do get a
kickback from Pat for the business I refer to him. But, I am
blatantly honest about meteorites (to the point of pissing off a lot
of people) and I would wholeheatedly endorse his process even if I was
not receiving a kickback. I love meteorites and I want all meteorites
to be preserved and cherished for generations to come. I think it is
a noble endeavor to save these hopeless rusters from oblivion and it
is my wish that Pat's process should see widespread use to save
specimens like Admire from a horrible fate. I'd much rather see an
Admire mass saved through Pat's process, than to see it dissolved in
acid and rendered down into a pile of olivines.
I think most people would agree, that on an aesthetic basis, Admire is
a beautiful pallasite. If it's propensity to rust is removed from the
equation, then Admire could hold it's own against any other pallasite
on the market. The same could be said for Brenham also.
I'd love for the skeptics to try Pat's process and try to make a liar
out of me. I truly believe, in due time, Pat is going to become
well-known and respected for his work. As of right now, he is not
widely known and he is much more available for work. Once word gets
out about the effectiveness of his process, I fully expect there will
be a long waiting-list for his services.
Imagine a world full of stable Nantans, Campos, Droninos, Admires, and
Brenhams! That would be a great thing and I hope more people will try
Pat's process and see for themselves.
Best regards,
MikeG
--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---
On 2/22/11, Greg Hupe wrote:
> Hi MikeG,
>
> Thanks for the info, will be contacting Pat sometime soon. While I would
> never expect anyone to give up their secret processes, I had to ask since I
> have used one of the processes in the past. This thread fits in perfectly
> with the thread discussing the destruction of pallasites for gems, there
> seems to be an alternative out there.
>
> Best Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> gmh...@centurylink.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Gilmer
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:52 AM
> To: Greg Hupe
> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
>
> Hi Greg and List,
>
> Pat is a chemist by trade and I do not know all of the specifics
> regarding his process. But I have seen the results first-hand and I
> know of at least two other list members (both IMCA members and
> respected dealers - one of them a long time veteran) who have used
> Pat's process and have been delighted with the results. The large
> Campos on my website are priced higher than the market average because
> of their superior st
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve only return 25% of what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75 (mentioned in the video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely settled if Steve turned 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the money's not there, it seems to me like that would be the quickest and easiest means of settling the dispute. Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to it all even though he can't sell it at present...that would seem to be the easiest solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside from the fact that the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money for their rocks. But since it doesn't look like they're getting any anyway, at least they'd have less reason to think they'd been cheated, which is clearly the case given what was said in the video. Jason On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > Bill, Phil, list, > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally > diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become > partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. > But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the > de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on virtually > all of the worlds diamond caches. > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. > By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing > for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. > Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. > Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake something > with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake. > With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came from > meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you cannot > depend on that in the real world. > I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good people > but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan and sell > meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture. > They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good for > the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as > possible. > Carl > Carl or Debbie Esparza > Meteoritemax > > > bill kies wrote: >> >> Steve, >> >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take a >> gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world but >> where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the desire >> to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents itself? >> Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a collector, as they >> were not all that long ago. >> >> Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people >> happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. >> >> Bill >> >> >> > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; >> > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; >> > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> > From: meteorh...@aol.com >> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing >> > withLando wners >> > >> > Hello List, >> > >> > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. >> > >> > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. >> > >> > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined >> > some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for >> > meteorites together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where >> > pallasites had been found in the past. >> > >> > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite >> > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. >> > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk >> > of Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just >> > started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at >> > least 8 of us in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we >> > decided to try to sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we >> > tried, and we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the >> > institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of them wanted to >> > either buy or to trade for any of our specimens. The one sale was made, >> > and the land owner from where this meteorite came from got his contracted >> > percentage royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from >> > heaven for him. >> > >> > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being >> > the worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, >> > Brenham
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Bill, Phil, list, It sounds like you and Phil are saying the same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say this but many of us agree with both of you. Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The venture may indeed turn out to be a flop. I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on virtually all of the worlds diamond caches. This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and his cartel. By Steve's own admission the money is tight. Others are already competing for sales of these gems that they possess. And nobody is buying them. Who could blame them? The potential for fake stones is uncontrollable. Everything on the planet is being faked today and when you can fake something with as little as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake. With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones came from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to be honest but, you cannot depend on that in the real world. I feel for this whole group because as I said before they are all good people but, unless De Beers bails them out or they change the game plan and sell meteorites. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture. They say in Hollywood that any press is good press so. this may be good for the show but looking at the big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as possible. Carl Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax bill kies wrote: > > Steve, > > If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take a > gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world but > where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the desire > to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents itself? > Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a collector, as they > were not all that long ago. > > Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people > happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. > > Bill > > > > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > From: meteorh...@aol.com > > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing > > withLando wners > > > > Hello List, > > > > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > > > > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > > > > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined > > some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for > > meteorites together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where > > pallasites had been found in the past. > > > > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk > > of Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just > > started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at > > least 8 of us in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we > > decided to try to sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we > > tried, and we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the > > institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of them wanted to > > either buy or to trade for any of our specimens. The one sale was made, and > > the land owner from where this meteorite came from got his contracted > > percentage royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from heaven > > for him. > > > > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being > > the worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, > > Brenham or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could understand why > > no one wanted to buy any more of this meteorite. It was just too big of a > > risk for people to take. > > > > As we kept finding more and more meteorites, we were challenged with the > > supply and demand issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good > > outlook. > > > > Then one of the dealers in the group reminded us of the high quality > > gemstones that had been faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we > > took the specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and practiced > > trying to free up some of the olivine that was in it, and sure enough, > > there were some amazing gemstones produced. > > > > A year and a half ago, we went to all the land owners where we had found > > meteorites and told them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we > > found, we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we felt th
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi Greg and List,
You won't regret contacting Pat. I'm not saying that Pat is some kind
of magician, but his results are almost "magical".
For example, I will give an example from a fellow List-member's
experience. This person can chime in if they want, but I won't
mention the name because this person has no idea I was going to offer
up a testimonial on their behalf.
Having said that, this person bought one of Pat's Campos that is about
the size of grapefruit. This Campo now resides in one of the wettest
climates in the Western hemisphere. In addition to the wet location,
this Campo is used in outreach/educational work and it comes into
contact with dozens of sweaty little kid hands on a regular basis.
After over a year of this exposure, the specimen still shows no sign
of rusting.
Another specimen went to a prominent amateur astronomer (not a list
member) who uses the Campo in outreach work also - again, this
specimen comes into contact with sweaty little hands and is kept out
in the open without any special precautions to prevent rust. And this
specimen also shows no signs of rusting after several months of this
kind of "abuse".
Pat's process also works on pallasites and I have sold a few of these
specimens to buyers in various locales - and all of them are pleased
with the stability of their pieces.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I do get a
kickback from Pat for the business I refer to him. But, I am
blatantly honest about meteorites (to the point of pissing off a lot
of people) and I would wholeheatedly endorse his process even if I was
not receiving a kickback. I love meteorites and I want all meteorites
to be preserved and cherished for generations to come. I think it is
a noble endeavor to save these hopeless rusters from oblivion and it
is my wish that Pat's process should see widespread use to save
specimens like Admire from a horrible fate. I'd much rather see an
Admire mass saved through Pat's process, than to see it dissolved in
acid and rendered down into a pile of olivines.
I think most people would agree, that on an aesthetic basis, Admire is
a beautiful pallasite. If it's propensity to rust is removed from the
equation, then Admire could hold it's own against any other pallasite
on the market. The same could be said for Brenham also.
I'd love for the skeptics to try Pat's process and try to make a liar
out of me. I truly believe, in due time, Pat is going to become
well-known and respected for his work. As of right now, he is not
widely known and he is much more available for work. Once word gets
out about the effectiveness of his process, I fully expect there will
be a long waiting-list for his services.
Imagine a world full of stable Nantans, Campos, Droninos, Admires, and
Brenhams! That would be a great thing and I hope more people will try
Pat's process and see for themselves.
Best regards,
MikeG
--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---
On 2/22/11, Greg Hupe wrote:
> Hi MikeG,
>
> Thanks for the info, will be contacting Pat sometime soon. While I would
> never expect anyone to give up their secret processes, I had to ask since I
> have used one of the processes in the past. This thread fits in perfectly
> with the thread discussing the destruction of pallasites for gems, there
> seems to be an alternative out there.
>
> Best Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> gmh...@centurylink.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Gilmer
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:52 AM
> To: Greg Hupe
> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
>
> Hi Greg and List,
>
> Pat is a chemist by trade and I do not know all of the specifics
> regarding his process. But I have seen the results first-hand and I
> know of at least two other list members (both IMCA members and
> respected dealers - one of them a long time veteran) who have used
> Pat's process and have been delighted with the results. The large
> Campos on my website are priced higher than the market average because
> of their superior stability. A few potential buyers have balked at
> paying a higher premium, because of the reputation that Campos have
> for being rusters. But, I have also sold over a dozen of Pat's big
> irons to all four corners of the world - including some very humid
> climes. Every buyer is now a believer in Pat's process.
>
> As all of us know, rusti
[meteorite-list] AD - 54 Items Ending at Auction
Dear List Members, I have 54 auctions ending today, all started at just 99 cents with reserve. There are many good specimens currently priced at pennies on the dollar. Maybe everybody is distracted this week but please take a look if you can find the time. Link to all auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/raremeteorites!/m.html Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 Team Lunar Rock __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
Steve, If I'm correct, you're saying the deal was a flop and everyone has to take a gig. Disclaimers like this might help divert blame in the business world but where does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than the desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare opportunity presents itself? Surely you remember those days, even though you aren't a collector, as they were not all that long ago. Maybe you should return all the material you can. Try to make these people happy and live up to the respect you convinced them you were worthy of. Bill > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > From: meteorh...@aol.com > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing > withLando wners > > Hello List, > > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined > some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for meteorites > together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where pallasites > had been found in the past. > > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk of > Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just started > hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at least 8 of > us in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we decided to try > to sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we tried, and we sold > one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the institutions with notable > meteorite collections and none of them wanted to either buy or to trade for > any of our specimens. The one sale was made, and the land owner from where > this meteorite came from got his contracted percentage royalty, and he was > VERY pleased. It was truly money from heaven for him. > > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being the > worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, Brenham > or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could understand why no one > wanted to buy any more of this meteorite. It was just too big of a risk for > people to take. > > As we kept finding more and more meteorites, we were challenged with the > supply and demand issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good > outlook. > > Then one of the dealers in the group reminded us of the high quality > gemstones that had been faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we > took the specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and practiced > trying to free up some of the olivine that was in it, and sure enough, there > were some amazing gemstones produced. > > A year and a half ago, we went to all the land owners where we had found > meteorites and told them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we > found, we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we felt that > as gemstones, we could make more money for everyone. > > We decided to incorporate our partnership as Palladot Inc, a Kansas > corporation, that focused on selling meteorites, mostly in gemstone format. > I am the President, and Jason Phillips is our C.E.O.. We hired Charles > Ellias, who is a graduate gemologist with 25 years of experience in the color > gemstone market, to manage our operations, including overseeing the faceting, > grading and pricing and marketing of the gemstones. > > Our original contract only promised the landowners that they would earn their > royalty on the "wholesale" sale of the meteorites. We told all the land > owners we wanted to pursue the gemstone market as there was very little > demand in the meteorite world for the specimens as meteorites. It was one of > the landowners that actually suggested "pooling" all of the royalties > together, so we wouldn't have to melt down every meteorite, and this way all > the landowners could still share proportionately by their contribution in the > profits. > > It was at that point, that in the spirit of full discloser, we explained how > the gemstone market gave us the best up-side potential for earnings. If a > market could be built for these most amazing and rare gemstones with a > fascinating story, then we would have the supply to fill the demand created. > And yes, IF there would be millions of dollars of demand created, we would > have millions of dollars of gems. > > All of the land owners, except for one, agreed to pool their royalty interest > together and join us in the gem market. > The one landowner that didn't want to go to the gem business with us, was > happy to take his portion "in kind" and we gave him his meteorites. All the > others signe
[meteorite-list] Ad
Should you be interested, I have some auctions ending today and can be seen here: http://shop.ebay.com/refamat/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=50&_sop=12 Thanks Mark Ferguson __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi MikeG,
Thanks for the info, will be contacting Pat sometime soon. While I would
never expect anyone to give up their secret processes, I had to ask since I
have used one of the processes in the past. This thread fits in perfectly
with the thread discussing the destruction of pallasites for gems, there
seems to be an alternative out there.
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Michael Gilmer
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:52 AM
To: Greg Hupe
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi Greg and List,
Pat is a chemist by trade and I do not know all of the specifics
regarding his process. But I have seen the results first-hand and I
know of at least two other list members (both IMCA members and
respected dealers - one of them a long time veteran) who have used
Pat's process and have been delighted with the results. The large
Campos on my website are priced higher than the market average because
of their superior stability. A few potential buyers have balked at
paying a higher premium, because of the reputation that Campos have
for being rusters. But, I have also sold over a dozen of Pat's big
irons to all four corners of the world - including some very humid
climes. Every buyer is now a believer in Pat's process.
As all of us know, rusting is major issue with many irons and
pallasites. There are a number of methods floating around on the web
for stabilizing sick meteorites. Some involve chemicals, some involve
a vacuum chamber, some involve electrolysis, and others use a
combination of those methods or something completely different.
Whatever Pat is doing, it works amazingly well and he is "on to
something". He is keeping his exact methodology close to his chest
and I don't really blame him for that - so I have never tried to pry
his method out of him.
But I can say this without reservation - I may not be the most popular
guy on the List, but I'm no fool and I know when something works and
when something does not. Contact Pat and give his method a try. His
fee is very reasonable and he is a super guy to deal with. Once word
finally gets out about him, he is going to have more work than he can
handle.
http://patmulvanymeteorites.embarqspace.com/
Best regards,
MikeG
On 2/22/11, Greg Hupe wrote:
Hi MikeG and List,
Mike, can you explain a little about what Pat does in the process to
stabilize rusting meteorites. We have talked about the Reverse
Electrolysis
Process on this List in the past a couple times, is this part of Pat's
method?
Thank you in advance!
Best Regards,
Greg
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
-Original Message-
From: Michael Gilmer
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:06 AM
To: JoshuaTreeMuseum
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in
DealingwithLando wners
OR, put the Admire masses through the Pat Mulvany process, which will
render them completely stable on par with Esquel or the world's most
stable pallasites.
Admire is a pretty meteorite, and once the rusting issue is taken care
of, it can stand on it's own against other pallasites.
No need to dissolve them in acid and try to sell the gemstones as jewelry.
Doubt Pat's process? That's fine - hang on to your rusters until they
fall apart.
Best regards,
MikeG
--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---
--
--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---
__
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Re: [meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi Greg and List, Pat is a chemist by trade and I do not know all of the specifics regarding his process. But I have seen the results first-hand and I know of at least two other list members (both IMCA members and respected dealers - one of them a long time veteran) who have used Pat's process and have been delighted with the results. The large Campos on my website are priced higher than the market average because of their superior stability. A few potential buyers have balked at paying a higher premium, because of the reputation that Campos have for being rusters. But, I have also sold over a dozen of Pat's big irons to all four corners of the world - including some very humid climes. Every buyer is now a believer in Pat's process. As all of us know, rusting is major issue with many irons and pallasites. There are a number of methods floating around on the web for stabilizing sick meteorites. Some involve chemicals, some involve a vacuum chamber, some involve electrolysis, and others use a combination of those methods or something completely different. Whatever Pat is doing, it works amazingly well and he is "on to something". He is keeping his exact methodology close to his chest and I don't really blame him for that - so I have never tried to pry his method out of him. But I can say this without reservation - I may not be the most popular guy on the List, but I'm no fool and I know when something works and when something does not. Contact Pat and give his method a try. His fee is very reasonable and he is a super guy to deal with. Once word finally gets out about him, he is going to have more work than he can handle. http://patmulvanymeteorites.embarqspace.com/ Best regards, MikeG On 2/22/11, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi MikeG and List, > > Mike, can you explain a little about what Pat does in the process to > stabilize rusting meteorites. We have talked about the Reverse Electrolysis > Process on this List in the past a couple times, is this part of Pat's > method? > > Thank you in advance! > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > gmh...@centurylink.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Gilmer > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:06 AM > To: JoshuaTreeMuseum > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in > DealingwithLando wners > > OR, put the Admire masses through the Pat Mulvany process, which will > render them completely stable on par with Esquel or the world's most > stable pallasites. > > Admire is a pretty meteorite, and once the rusting issue is taken care > of, it can stand on it's own against other pallasites. > > No need to dissolve them in acid and try to sell the gemstones as jewelry. > > Doubt Pat's process? That's fine - hang on to your rusters until they > fall apart. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > -- > Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites > > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com > Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone > Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 > --- > > -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for meteorites : )
Looks like someone was doing some target shooting out there! Michael Mulgrew wrote: > We should compare notes, because I found a bowling pin: > http://www.mikestang.com/user/cimage/CoyoteDL03-122710.JPG > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Thunder Stone > wrote: > > > > I found a bowling ball in the middle of the desert > > > > > > > From: rickm...@earthlink.net > > > To: tbe...@cableone.net; raremeteori...@yahoo.com; > > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 17:07:40 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for > > > meteorites : ) > > > > > > Nothing tops any of the previous entries, but once I found a light-bulb in > > > the middle of no-where. Huh??? > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Ted Bunch" > > > To: "Adam Hupe" ; "Adam" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:03 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for > > > meteorites : ) > > > > > > > > > >I was angry because the low flying event by military jets has happened to > > > >me > > > > numerous times. They do low altitude runs in many areas of the desert > > > > where > > > > they should not be. But these flight jockeys love to spot some poor > > > > bastard > > > > in the middle of nowhere and then do a 'strafing" run on him at 50 m off > > > > the > > > > deck and > mach 1. Scares the Hell out of me and the sonic wave laden > > > > with > > > > dust is no fun. If I were to have a heart attack that be the time. > > > > > > > > Te > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/11 2:48 PM, "Adam Hupe" wrote: > > > > > > > >> I can't top the prosthetic leg or the cow suspended on top of a > > > >> telephone > > > >> pole > > > >> like Sonny found but you can count on strange happenings if you spend > > > >> enough > > > >> time in the desert. > > > >> > > > >> One time while climbing a mountain by Area 51, Dr Ted Bunch, Zann and I > > > >> were > > > >> startled by a jet flying below our altitude. It flew so close to use > > > >> sideways > > > >> that I could see the pilots face and helmet. Needless to say, it was > > > >> going so > > > >> fast that we were startled when it flew by. Luckily, nobody lost their > > > >> footing. > > > >> Ted was angry but Zann and I found it amusing. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> I have been startled by sonic booms several times by unseen craft. You > > > >> can > > > >> actually feel the sound if this makes sense. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> The wildlife never ceases to interest me. It amazing me how tough > > > >> creatures > > > >> and > > > >> early man have to be to survive desert conditions. I have also seen > > > >> giant cat > > > >> tracks among other things and would not want to run into one. > > > >> > > > >> Take Care, > > > >> > > > >> Adam > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> - Original Message > > > >> From: Adam Hupe > > > >> To: Adam > > > >> Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 1:08:08 PM > > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange things found while hunting for > > > >> meteorites > > > >> : ) > > > >> > > > >> I have seen what looked like an open grave discovered by Guido's wife, > > > >> Joan > > > >> and > > > >> Zann. There was a perfect rectangle dug several feet deep out in the > > > >> middle > > > >> of > > > >> nowhere. Perhaps some gangster dug it to make a point when Vegas was > > > >> under > > > >> mob > > > >> control. We continue to check it from time-to-time to make sure it > > > >> isn't > > > >> buried > > > >> > > > >> over. > > > >> > > > >> Caches of old casino chips have been stashed in secret places > > > >> throughout > > > >> the > > > >> desert. We were shown one location where tokens numbered in the > > > >> thousands > > > >> with > > > >> several rare ones. They were coming out of concrete, put there in an > > > >> unsuccessful effort to destroy them. It looked like fossil negatives > > > >> where > > > >> they > > > >> > > > >> fell out. > > > >> > > > >> A four hour hike from our house will take you to a very old aircraft > > > >> wreck. A > > > >> short hike will take you to petroglypts and a water fall. > > > >> > > > >> I once found a dead turtle with a transmitter hooked to its back. This > > > >> was > > > >> while > > > >> > > > >> hiking with Sonny and Rob. > > > >> > > > >> We stumbled onto a hidden dwelling surrounded by bushes with no power > > > >> or > > > >> utilities and a sign that said keep the F--- OUT. We took it seriously > > > >> and > > > >> backed out of there slowly. We figured it was somebody growing product > > > >> or the > > > >> kind of lab that one would not want to deal with. > > > >> > > > >> We found a stolen SUV hidden in a canyon and reported its GPS > > > >> coordinates > > > >> to > > > >> the > > > >> > > > >> police. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> One time, I was startled by a dog running up to me in the middle of > > > >> nowhere > > > >>
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing withLando wners
Thanks for the explaination Steve, I don't think we ever doubted your honesty. Leave it to the media to blow everything out of proportion. And I am impressed you typed all that on a Blackberry!!! :-) Stuart McD(MrKrink) Thunder Stone wrote: > > Steve: > > I guess the Media-Wrong not Media-Right > > There is always two sides to a story. > > Greg S. > > > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; > > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > From: meteorh...@aol.com > > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35 + > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing > > withLando wners > > > > Hello List, > > > > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > > > > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > > > > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined > > some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for > > meteorites together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where > > pallasites had been found in the past. > > > > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk > > of Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just > > started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at > > least 8 of us in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we > > decided to try to sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we > > tried, and we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the > > institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of them wanted to > > either buy or to trade for any of our specimens. The one sale was made, > > and the land owner from where this meteorite came from got his contracted > > percentage royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from > > heaven for him. > > > > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being > > the worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, > > Brenham or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could understand why > > no one wanted to buy any more of this meteorite. It was just too big of a > > risk for people to take. > > > > As we kept finding more and more meteorites, we were challenged with the > > supply and demand issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good > > outlook. > > > > Then one of the dealers in the group reminded us of the high quality > > gemstones that had been faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we > > took the specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and practiced > > trying to free up some of the olivine that was in it, and sure enough, > > there were some amazing gemstones produced. > > > > A year and a half ago, we went to all the land owners where we had found > > meteorites and told them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we > > found, we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we felt > > that as gemstones, we could make more money for everyone. > > > > We decided to incorporate our partnership as Palladot Inc, a Kansas > > corporation, that focused on selling meteorites, mostly in gemstone format. > > > > I am the President, and Jason Phillips is our C.E.O.. We hired Charles > > Ellias, who is a graduate gemologist with 25 years of experience in the > > color gemstone market, to manage our operations, including overseeing the > > faceting, grading and pricing and marketing of the gemstones. > > > > Our original contract only promised the landowners that they would earn > > their royalty on the "wholesale" sale of the meteorites. We told all the > > land owners we wanted to pursue the gemstone market as there was very > > little demand in the meteorite world for the specimens as meteorites. It > > was one of the landowners that actually suggested "pooling" all of the > > royalties together, so we wouldn't have to melt down every meteorite, and > > this way all the landowners could still share proportionately by their > > contribution in the profits. > > > > It was at that point, that in the spirit of full discloser, we explained > > how the gemstone market gave us the best up-side potential for earnings. If > > a market could be built for these most amazing and rare gemstones with a > > fascinating story, then we would have the supply to fill the demand > > created. And yes, IF there would be millions of dollars of demand > > created, we would have millions of dollars of gems. > > > > All of the land owners, except for one, agreed to pool their royalty > > interest together and join us in the gem market. > > The one landowner that didn't want to go to the gem business with us, was > > happy to take his portion "in kind" and we gave him his meteorites. All > > the others sig
[meteorite-list] Pat's Stabilizing Process {was: The trials...}
Hi MikeG and List, Mike, can you explain a little about what Pat does in the process to stabilize rusting meteorites. We have talked about the Reverse Electrolysis Process on this List in the past a couple times, is this part of Pat's method? Thank you in advance! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:06 AM To: JoshuaTreeMuseum Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in DealingwithLando wners OR, put the Admire masses through the Pat Mulvany process, which will render them completely stable on par with Esquel or the world's most stable pallasites. Admire is a pretty meteorite, and once the rusting issue is taken care of, it can stand on it's own against other pallasites. No need to dissolve them in acid and try to sell the gemstones as jewelry. Doubt Pat's process? That's fine - hang on to your rusters until they fall apart. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing withLando wners
OR, put the Admire masses through the Pat Mulvany process, which will render them completely stable on par with Esquel or the world's most stable pallasites. Admire is a pretty meteorite, and once the rusting issue is taken care of, it can stand on it's own against other pallasites. No need to dissolve them in acid and try to sell the gemstones as jewelry. Doubt Pat's process? That's fine - hang on to your rusters until they fall apart. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/22/11, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > OK, fair enough. > So anyway you get Paloma Picasso to design some matching sets of necklaces, > bracelets, earrings, tiaras, rings with shooting star themes. Then have the > writers think up some kind of plot device to get Lindsay Lohan on the show. > Maybe have her waltz into Tiffanny's while Paloma is showing her pallidot > jewelry. Then LiLo could shoplift the necklace and viola, a free media > advertising blitz. It's a win-win situation. Next thing you know 50-Cent > will have a pallidot set in his front tooth. Phil Mickelson will give his > wife a pallidot encrusted tiara for their anniversary. There will have to be > movie tie-ins like "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend." Liz Taylor will > wear the world's largest faceted pallidot pendant. Baguette cut engagement > rings will become all the rage > > > Phil Whitmer > > > > > > Hello List, > > Wow, what an outpouring of comments today. > > Let me bring all of you up to speed on this. > > Five years ago, I partnered with around 10 or so friends and they combined > some money, and I offered up some time and we started hunting for meteorites > together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas where pallasites > had been found in the past. > > We chose this location after I had my success locating some pallasite > meteorites at the Brenham strewnfield. > We got land leases to hunt, without any promise of any big money, no talk of > Millions, or thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just > started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of my friends, at > least 8 of us in the group, were very connected meteorite dealers and we > decided to try to sell some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we > tried, and we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the > institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of them wanted to > either buy or to trade for any of our specimens. The one sale was made, and > the land owner from where this meteorite came from got his contracted > percentage royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from heaven > for him. > > The meteorites from this particular location have the reputation of being > the worst rusting meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan, > Brenham or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could understand why > no one wanted to buy any more of this meteorite. It was just too big of a > risk for people to take. > > As we kept finding more and more meteorites, we were challenged with the > supply and demand issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good > outlook. > > Then one of the dealers in the group reminded us of the high quality > gemstones that had been faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we > took the specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and practiced > trying to free up some of the olivine that was in it, and sure enough, there > were some amazing gemstones produced. > > A year and a half ago, we went to all the land owners where we had found > meteorites and told them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we > found, we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we felt > that as gemstones, we could make more money for everyone. > > We decided to incorporate our partnership as Palladot Inc, a Kansas > corporation, that focused on selling meteorites, mostly in gemstone format. > I am the President, and Jason Phillips is our C.E.O.. We hired Charles > Ellias, who is a graduate gemologist with 25 years of experience in the > color gemstone market, to manage our operations, including overseeing the > faceting, grading and pricing and marketing of the gemstones. > > Our original contract only promised the landowners that they would earn > their royalty on the "wholesale" sale of the meteorites. We told all the > land owners we wanted to pursue the gemstone market as t
[meteorite-list] AD - Several 'Moss' CO3 ending today.
List, I have 3 'Moss' CO3.6 carbonaceous norwegian meteorite fall pieces from midsummer day of 2006, including the 55 gram ending in about 10 hours: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160546880463 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160546860239 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160546867564 It is not certain I will sell more of these any time soon, so get them while you can! Regards, Bjørn Sørheim, __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] customs holding packages
Warren, this VAT-Value Added Tax has been a big discussion and a pain in the EU-European Union for the past few months, especially heavily discussed since Europeans and people in other countries are complaining more about it. Things were bad enough shipping to Italy and their pony express method of delivering snail mail, and thus now most sellers on ebay won't ship to Italy and most shippers from everywhere in the world don't want to ship to Italy because it's so slow there, but now you have this added VAT and it's a real pain. Many ebay sellers as you know state in the auctions they won't ship to Italy and now I'm seeing many more not shipping to Mexico. I gave up on DHL 5 years ago since I would order products from St Martin/St Marteen and they always went to their god awful headquarters along the Kentucky/Ohio border. Twice they opened the package and then DHL charged me between $65-$100 because Bubba and his cousin Larry and his brother Larry and his other brother Larry didn't like something comin' from no gosh dang country that had a French flag flyin' from it, since them frogs didn't help the U.S. of A. fight in Iraq and Bubba and the Larrys wouldn't eat none of them dang French fries. You get my drift and you know my sense of humor. Yes, folks in France and those that don't know me, I am making a joke about how people talk and act along the Ohio River area of Cincinnati, Ohio where DHL has its large hub, but it's true. I think they really didn't like that island or St. Barts since they have been rumored to stop packages written in French at the DHL hub. I gave up buying from St. Martin and just bought from the warehouses or stores in the U.S. that carried their products. Your best bet is, as has always been done, "Mineral for research" $5. Have a great day! BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners
Hello Martin and Listers, Martin I liked a couple points you brought up in this post and liked the one about institutions and collectors.. "and there STILL some curators exist who seriously state, that commercial trade and private hunting/collecting would cause damage to science" I feel that with some institutions leading by this mind set can have a negative effect on the continuation with meteoritic science. I think the dealer,hunter,collector,reseller, scientist all have a common goal and is to continue the development of meteoritic awareness, and understanding of science. Without one of these elements, the hopes and dreams of meteoritic science could be halted like how it can been seen in Australia, where science makes it a priority to make meteorites property of the state. By institutionalizing a stance on science can have a irreparable consequence on the further development of understanding where we came from through meteorites by halting hunting and only hindering the greater understanding of science instutionalization. Some can speculate that dealers,hunters,collectors make it difficult for institutions to acquire meteorites. However these institutions keep forgetting that they have a great amount of meteorites at there disposal to conduct trades, exchanges with people to gain more meteorites in a given collection. A good example would be the Murry or Murchison meteorite fall, the Smithsonian has over 5000 grams of those two meteorites, and if some reason they dont have a meteorite for the collection and was presented an opportunity for a trade, one could do so by the great amount of meteorites the Smithsonian has. To disengage with all aspects for dealing and collecting meteorites on any level can cause discomfort in the meteoritic science section. My understand is not to hinder but to allow everyone to have the equal opportunity to have and gain accesses to meteorites. Why hold back, I feel by sharing and trading between scientist/collectors/dealers can pave a new direction in meteorites science, especially when budgets keep getting cut. We have to come together and work together to persevere meteorites and their understanding they present to science and continue the understanding where we came from through meteorites. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Feb 21 21:10:15 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Mike, I changed my pills. And saw how stupid I am. (o.k. that isn't really new). We simply have to switch the perspective! 10 years ago, if a dealer sold 1 gram of Moon in a month and nothing else, than he had a good life, and when he did so 15 years ago, a very very good one. Or 10grams of a howardite per month, and his children were proud on their daddy. Today 10g Howardite bring you 100 lousy bucks and 1g Moon 1000$ without costs yet and before taxes. Nothing more to say about the good ol'times... ...and there STILL some curators exist who seriously state, that commercial trade and private hunting/collecting would cause damage to science and that especially in these very times they wouldn't be able to compete anymore because of the privateers making meteorites so unaffordable for them. Unbelievable - but you can read that everywhere. And that makes any discussion so difficult, because you'd have to start at zero, at the basics with them. (And I thought natural science would have to do something with exact figures and numbers :-) And I bet a Martian main mass, that after they have brought the find rates so down with their prohibition, that meteorites will cost then 10, 20, 30 times more than today, that they will then again pass the buck to the dealers/hunters/collectors making them responsible for the horrible prices. You'll see! Good Night! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Michael Gilmer [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Februar 2011 01:35 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners Hi Martin, Steve and List, Martin said - "This we will hear in a hundred-voiced chorus in 10 years from now about the period of 2000-2010, the REAL golden times of meteoritics..." So true. And this illustrates the gap (Grand Canyon sometimes) between the pre-NWA collectors and the newer class of collectors who have graduated from NWA university. As a meteorite collector, my third purchase was a lunar. I bought a mic
