Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2011
Hello, all, If I was the curator of that museum, I would clean all that paint off this meteorite, keeping only the original markers for the nostalgic value. Cheers, Pete Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 21:05:26 -0700 From: mich...@rocksfromspace.org To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2011 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_8_2011.html --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List of meteorites from Vesta?
I've recently studied up on Olivine Diogenites and Dunites and collated the info from all the papers I could find. So further to Jason's info below, I also found that a general rule of thumb is that Olivine Diogenites have an olivine content of 40% while Dunites have an olivine content of 90%. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] List of meteorites from Vesta? Hello All, A dunite is a type of ultramafic rock composed of olivine. It is associated with conditions/an origin in the (upper) mantle of a differentiated body (not just Earth). They form at greater depths than one would find any significant amount of orthopyroxene, and are composed primarily of olivine (which is a denser mineral). Olivine diogenites are technically dunites from 4-Vesta; Chassigny is a Martian dunite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunite Regards, Jason On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: Dunite is the Earth version of Tatahouine. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 4/7/11, tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com wrote: From: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] List of meteorites from Vesta? To: Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, April 7, 2011, 3:31 AM I had thought that dunites were Martian, like Chassigny. Have dunites been identified from other sources? Best! Tracy Latimer Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 22:58:02 -0400 From: meteoritem...@gmail.com To: fips_br...@yahoo.de CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] List of meteorites from Vesta? Hi Regine, All HEDOD meteorites are assumed to be Vestan in origin - Howardite, Eucrite, Diogenite, Olivine diogenite, and Dunite. :) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/6/11, Regine Petersen wrote: Hi all, Is there a list of assumed Vesta meteorites? Regine __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] freebies to go
Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Our Friend Harvey... ( NYT )
Kollekted Kvotes - Best of Dr.Ralph Harvey. From 1999 - 2011 ``There's no doubt it hurts science,'' said Case Western Reserve University geologist Ralph Harvey. ``It's a real problem, and it's not just meteorites. It's rare natural specimens of any kinds. Fossils are even a more visible example.'' --- But some meteorites that have been identified by scientists as blasted from the Martian surface are now going for thousands or tens of thousands of dollars a gram. A few are rumored to be on sale for a million dollars or more.p. That's a lot money. That puts them out of the reach of researchers, says Ralph P. Harvey, an assistant professor of geological sciences at Case Western Reserve University and an expert on Martian meteorites. And that, in a nutshell, is the problem.p. Mr. Harvey, who heads a National Science Foundation-sponsored program that collects Antarctic meteorites and provides them to researchers at no cost, is worried that the rising prices being asked for Martian meteorites, as well as for other meteorites found in Antarctica, may also be encouraging private expeditions to the frozen continent by commercial meteorite prospectors The problem is that people are getting the idea that meteorites are worth their weight in gold, he says.p. Meteorites right now have an accentuated value, says Mr. Harvey, of Case Western Reserve. What's clear is that a lot of people are trying to cash in. Now everyone thinks that they not only have a meteorite, but a Martian meteorite. --- But although science may be a victim of this new crime, it might also be an unwitting accomplice, warns Ralph P Harvey, assistant professor at Case Western Reserve University, Ohio, and principal of the US Antarctic Search for Meteorites program. He told the BBC that the methods used to get meteorites out of Africa, particularly Morocco and Libya, were questionable. He said private collectors were going to these countries to obtain the space rocks before selling them on to academic institutions. But its not clear that these meteorites came out of these countries legally, he said. God bless the people who realize in science how important altruism can be, Harvey said. (that's my absolute favorite :-) Martin) The expeditions who use our information to help a tourist pick up a meteorite and lock it away in a private collection, it's a travesty to me. It's a black market, said Ralph P. Harvey, a geologist at Case Western Reserve University who directs the federal search for meteorites in Antarctica. It's as organized as any drug trade and just as illegal. . . . Shall I continue? I have currently some problems regarding the credibility of Dr.Harvey's disclaimer Later perhaps more. Seems a lot of work, to take his fears away. Or are we really so evil? Martin NYT: Know your dealer. Want some moondust? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Rare impacted artifact (Navarro house) and more
Dear list members, To focus exclusively on old falls, I decided to make one of the treasures of the Tricottet Collection available for sale. This is an extremely rare artifact impacted at the Navarro house in Park Forest, the only video game box ever struck by a meteorite. It is museum display quality, has an amazing story and all the documentation one can only dream of. Learn more here: http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/article1_impact.html Only serious offers please!! Trade for very old falls with museum label/number possible. Also note many duplicates (Nininger, Monnig, Buddhue...) from the Tricottet Collection are available here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=495830663937id=228399863937aid=278353 (you don't need a facebook account to see the album) Best regards, Arnaud The Tricottet Collection (Historic Minerals, Fossils Meteorites) http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/ http://www.facebook.com/TheTricottetCollection http://twitter.com/TricottetColl# __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ??SaharaMet...who are they!
RE: The Pelissons: Am nearly finished with my book, METEORITE MARKET TRENDS 1997 through 2010 and today finished compiling The first half of the book. In doing so, I covered these two Chapters earlier today that addressed this issue: -- METEORITE MARKET TRENDS December, 2004 by Michael Blood As the Tucson Show approaches: The Meteorite Week will be the first week of Feb.culminating on the weekend with: The now famous Birthday Bash Friday evening, Feb. 5th. This year at a new location yet to be announced but enough space to hold EVERYONE, which now means A LOT of folks! Of course we will all be blessed with celebrating the recipients of the Harvey Awards for the year presented by the Cheech and Chong of the Meteorite community: Geoff Notkin and THE REAL Steve Arnold, usually dressed in Western garb, but with these two who knows with these two? This is an event never missed by the other Steve Arnold (of Chicago!!!), as well. Proud Tom will also be there, but, unfortunately, since he has been in hiding low these many months, and since, even when out he is not really out but rather closeted, we will, no doubt, NOT see him. though he will undoubtedly be there. (sounds a bit biblical, doesn't it?) Saturday, Feb. 6th will see two auctions: The second year of the Al Lang Silent Auction will conclude in the Executive Inn, Rm130. Bids can be placed throughout that week. Exact time of conclusion is unclear at press time but you can check with Al or Iris Lang when writing in your bid that week or early in the day, Saturday. The Michael Blood Auction or People's Auction will be held in the same location as last year at 1150 N. Beverly 119 Ave. off Speedway. This is the VFW Post #4903 full directions are available on the Auction Website at http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson05.html Sunday, Feb. 7th the Macovich auction will be held at 10 AM next to the pool at Inn Suites. Pieces will be on display most of the week preceding the auction in Darryl Pitt's room. People should look to Meteorite Exchange for a list that will soon appear listing each and every meteorite dealer and event not to be missed at Tucson the meteorite Mecca of the world. LATE BRAKING ADDENDUM! Bruno Carine have informed the meteorite community of the following actions taken by Roland and Richard Pelisson of SaharaMet: What the Pellissons are doing is just unbelievable, they already did contact the French interior Ministry as well as the Customs offices in different countries. They are linking the meteorite community to terrorism If one goes to Google and types in money for terrorism the top site listed is a page from the Pellissons' web site: http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html While a good deal of propaganda fills the pages, it essentially states that any and everyone exporting NWA meteorites, 120 EXCEPT THEMSELVES are engaged in the financing of terrorism! This is the most outrageous crappola to result from the 9/11 tragedy since the issuance of the Homeland Security Act, removing most of the constitutional rights of US citizens. Read the following paragraph which is a direct quote from their site: Smugglers, dealers, investors, all the people who buy, sell, trade and publish documents about these meteorites want to conceal the truth. As long as the collectors believe that unknown hunters wish to keep the locations of their finds secret, that all these meteorites are good for science and a good purchase, the business will go on! The plundering of North Africa, the support to organized smuggling rings, the financing of terrorism, all that happens behind the Moroccan border in Saharan countries is of little concern for too many people today. I have seen outrageous acts committed by meteorite dealers in an attempt to discredit what they consider competition (rather than colleagues) but nothing comes remotely close to THIS! Thanks to the actions being taken by the Pelissons the entire meteorite community will likely become tainted in the eyes of not only the public in general, but by customs in particular and entire governments! Of course, the implications of these accusations in terms of impact on the Meteorite Market are overwhelming! Stay tuned Michael 121 METEORITE MARKET TRENDS January, 2005 by Michael Blood If you read last month's column, you are aware of the international concern arising from the Pelissons taking to a court of law their ludicrous claim of NWA meteorite dealing and collecting being directly linked to terrorism. If the courts begin to attach credibility to these claims, the meteorite market as we know it will be changed forever and certainly not for the better. Please note that the Pelissons accuse ALL meteorite collectors who have ever purchased any NWA material of conspiracy.
[meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 8, 2011 5:22 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2011
I'm surprised the labels are still sticking after all these years. Better gum in those days. Most modern day labels would have dropped off in a short time (months not years). Chris. Spratt Victoria. BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hi Robert, Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can work some magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would be really cool for me - it fell on my birthday! On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New 5+ Kilo Lunar - Shisr 162
I just changed the URL to something more logical: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/shisr162.htm Randy Korotev At 08:10 PM 2011-04-07 Thursday, you wrote: Hello Michael, All, You should check the WUSTL list more often; it's been posted for some months. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/unnamed19.htm The list: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alumina.htm The lunar you mention is largely uncut, and resides in the hands of the finder. I think he *may* have been looking to sell some, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. I assume he's a list-member, so if he sees this, maybe he'll chime in. Regards, Jason On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi List, A new lunar was approved into the Met Bulletin today - a 5kg rock held by anonymous which was found in Oman(!) in 2006. Does anyone know anything about this new lunar (other than what is in the write-up), and does anyone have a photo of it? Congratulations to Anonymous - a 5 kilo lunar is quite a prize. Best regards, MikeG PS - I hope whoever found it, didn't use a backhoe to remove it. ;) -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Hi Count and List, When the Chinese and Indians start driving cars at half the rate Americans do, the oil industry will either collapse or WWIII will start. There is not enough oil inside this planet to feed the projected demand in the next 50 years. If we are smart, we will relegate oil to the production of plastics and wean ourselves off that filthy fuel. I'm not a tree-hugger, just someone who can read the oily writing on the wall for petroleum. I propose we find a way to convert caliche-covered, weathered, H5 NWA's into fuel - there are enough of those to feed the world for generations to come. :) Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 8, 2011 5:22 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Hi Martin and all, I don't think that Stevee can hold his breath that long. Big Pond to cross for a meteorite, you know. ;-) --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ??SaharaMet...who are they!
Hi Michael and all, How long before your book is out?? I'd like to have some to sell. Best!! --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com; Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ??SaharaMet...who are they! RE: The Pelissons: Am nearly finished with my book, METEORITE MARKET TRENDS 1997 through 2010 and today finished compiling The first half of the book. In doing so, I covered these two Chapters earlier today that addressed this issue: -- METEORITE MARKET TRENDS December, 2004 by Michael Blood As the Tucson Show approaches: The Meteorite Week will be the first week of Feb.culminating on the weekend with: The now famous Birthday Bash Friday evening, Feb. 5th. This year at a new location yet to be announced but enough space to hold EVERYONE, which now means A LOT of folks! Of course we will all be blessed with celebrating the recipients of the Harvey Awards for the year presented by the Cheech and Chong of the Meteorite community: Geoff Notkin and THE REAL Steve Arnold, usually dressed in Western garb, but with these two who knows with these two? This is an event never missed by the other Steve Arnold (of Chicago!!!), as well. Proud Tom will also be there, but, unfortunately, since he has been in hiding low these many months, and since, even when out he is not really out but rather closeted, we will, no doubt, NOT see himS. though he will undoubtedly be there. (sounds a bit biblical, doesn't it?) Saturday, Feb. 6th will see two auctions: The second year of the Al Lang Silent Auction will conclude in the Executive Inn, Rm130. Bids can be placed throughout that week. Exact time of conclusion is unclear at press time but you can check with Al or Iris Lang when writing in your bid that week or early in the day, Saturday. The Michael Blood Auction or People's Auction will be held in the same location as last year at 1150 N. Beverly 119 Ave. off Speedway. This is the VFW Post #4903 full directions are available on the Auction Website at http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson05.html Sunday, Feb. 7th the Macovich auction will be held at 10 AM next to the pool at Inn Suites. Pieces will be on display most of the week preceding the auction in Darryl Pitt's room. People should look to Meteorite Exchange for a list that will soon appear listing each and every meteorite dealer and event not to be missed at Tucson the meteorite Mecca of the world. LATE BRAKING ADDENDUM! Bruno Carine have informed the meteorite community of the following actions taken by Roland and Richard Pelisson of SaharaMet: What the Pellissons are doing is just unbelievable, they already did contact the French interior Ministry as well as the Customs offices in different countries. They are linking the meteorite community to terrorismS If one goes to Google and types in money for terrorism the top site listed is a page from the Pellissons' web site: http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html While a good deal of propaganda fills the pages, it essentially states that any and everyone exporting NWA meteorites, 120 EXCEPT THEMSELVES are engaged in the financing of terrorism! This is the most outrageous crappola to result from the 9/11 tragedy since the issuance of the Homeland Security Act, removing most of the constitutional rights of US citizens. Read the following paragraph which is a direct quote from their site: Smugglers, dealers, investors, all the people who buy, sell, trade and publish documents about these meteorites want to conceal the truth. As long as the collectors believe that unknown hunters wish to keep the locations of their finds secret, that all these meteorites are good for science and a good purchase, the business will go on! The plundering of North Africa, the support to organized smuggling rings, the financing of terrorism, all that happens behind the Moroccan border in Saharan countries is of little concern for too many people today. I have seen outrageous acts committed by meteorite dealers in an attempt to discredit what they consider competition (rather than colleagues) but nothing comes remotely close to THIS! Thanks to the actions being taken by the Pelissons the entire meteorite community will likely become tainted in the eyes of not only the public in general, but by customs in particular and entire governments! Of course, the implications of these accusations in terms of impact on the Meteorite Market are overwhelming! Stay tunedSS Michael 121 METEORITE MARKET TRENDS January, 2005 by Michael Blood If you read last month's column, you are aware of the international concern arising from the Pelissons taking to a court of law their ludicrous claim of NWA meteorite dealing and
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Macché, count, Stevey is living in a big town, and you just need a smaller car: http://kuerzer.de/countscar Uh you over there consume 5.3 metric tons oil equivalent per nose, we here 2.3 tons oe. You can't always drive, you need to sleep too... Leave the oil, where it is, for your grandchildren. With that stuff one can do more interesting things, than to burn it. E.g. cooking Droninos in. Huh, thrilling experiment here in Germany, looks at the moment that as the first among the leading industrial and producing nations we will completely quit nuclear power. Rather than oil, dig the meteorites up! Peak oil we hadn't yet, but Peak Met was 4 years ago! Btw. where is Jan? What is that for a story, with the guy, whose garden table was smashed by a meteorite in Holland? (Looks like a tiny Chergach. But it didn't fell on April 1st). Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Count Deiro [mailto:countde...@earthlink.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 16:24 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Artisan Meteorite Jewelry, Weston Micros, Diablo Crater Sand, Silver Diablo Iron, Trinitite, and more.
Hi List, I have some *gorgeous* meteorite jewelry available. Note, this is NOT the usual wire-wrapped stuff you see on eBay that looks like soccer-mom made it using materials from Michael's Arts and Crafts. This is the real deal - professionally made jewelry from a master lapidary artisan. The pendants have a superb cut and polish - my pitiful photos cannot do them justice. I am so confident in the quality of this jewelry, that I will offer your money back on it if you are not satisfied with it when you receive it. Each pendant comes with a sterling silver chain and findings. You also get a nice gift box with each necklace set. I only have a limited amount of these sets, and they are priced very competitively - especially if you use the metlist 20% discount coupon at checkout. See all of the jewelry here - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/meteorite-jewelry Pendant #1 (sold) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869-1 Pendant #2 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869-2 Pendant #3 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869-3 Pendant #4 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869-4 Pendant #5 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869 Pendant #6 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-pendant-w-sterling-silver-necklace-hand-made-nwa-869-5 NEW THIS WEEK - Low-cost Weston micromounts (historical US fall) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/weston--historic-first-witnessed-fall-meteorite-in-america-1807 Shocked crater sand from Canyon Diablo - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/canyon-diablo--shocked-coconino-sand-from-meteor-crater Ground Zero Rocks (from the Trinity site) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/trinity-rocks--rocks-from-ground-zero-historic-first-atomic-test Big, stable, silver patina Canyon Diablo iron meteorite - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/canyon-diablo-big-iron-meteorite-stable-nickel-silver-patina-144g See all of the newest offerings here - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/brand-new Unclassified NWA individuals and bulk lots - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/nwa-unclassified Baltic Amber with insect inclusions - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/copal-amber Genuine Trinitite (atomite, atom bomb glass) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/trinitite Don't forget to use coupon code metlist at checkout for 20% off your entire order. :) If you have any problems with checkout or the coupon, email me at - meteoritem...@gmail.com Best regards and have a great weekend! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hi Robert and Ruben and List, Here is a link to the weather in Kentucky it looks ok. This one might be worth checking out. Sonny http://weather.yahoo.com/united-states/kentucky/louisville-2442327/ -Original Message- From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com To: Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Apr 8, 2011 3:34 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Hi Robert,Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can worksome magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would bereally cool for me - it fell on my birthday!On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolardmeteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list-- Rock On!Ruben GarciaWebsite: http://www.mr-meteorite.netArticles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u__Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li stinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
Aww man. And I just bought an SUV over the weekend... Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:39:52 To: Count Deirocountde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmannaltm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Hi Count and List, When the Chinese and Indians start driving cars at half the rate Americans do, the oil industry will either collapse or WWIII will start. There is not enough oil inside this planet to feed the projected demand in the next 50 years. If we are smart, we will relegate oil to the production of plastics and wean ourselves off that filthy fuel. I'm not a tree-hugger, just someone who can read the oily writing on the wall for petroleum. I propose we find a way to convert caliche-covered, weathered, H5 NWA's into fuel - there are enough of those to feed the world for generations to come. :) Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 8, 2011 5:22 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hi all, Getting reports that there is not much to it. It seems like a very small event and not much doppler info. Darn! . On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:08 AM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi Robert and Ruben and List, Here is a link to the weather in Kentucky it looks ok. This one might be worth checking out. Sonny http://weather.yahoo.com/united-states/kentucky/louisville-2442327/ -Original Message- From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com To: Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Apr 8, 2011 3:34 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Hi Robert,Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can worksome magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would bereally cool for me - it fell on my birthday!On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolardmeteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list-- Rock On!Ruben GarciaWebsite: http://www.mr-meteorite.netArticles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u__Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li stinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Wanted: Lunar/Martian Slice
Hi list, I'm looking for a nice lunar or Martian slice (or potentially an end cut) - in the 10g (give or take a few grams) range. My selection criteria would be: 1) price per gram; 2) visual aesthetics; 3) scientific interest. I've done a good deal of research and corresponded with a few of you, but thought I'd give the list a shout. Let me know what you have off list.Thanks in advance. Rich __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
This will transport me to the next meteorite fall. 60 miles to a gallon and plenty of room for beer, I mean gear. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/razor_wire/servi-car004.jpg Bill To: meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; countde...@earthlink.net From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:14:14 + CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Aww man. And I just bought an SUV over the weekend... Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:39:52 To: Count Deirocountde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmannaltm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Hi Count and List, When the Chinese and Indians start driving cars at half the rate Americans do, the oil industry will either collapse or WWIII will start. There is not enough oil inside this planet to feed the projected demand in the next 50 years. If we are smart, we will relegate oil to the production of plastics and wean ourselves off that filthy fuel. I'm not a tree-hugger, just someone who can read the oily writing on the wall for petroleum. I propose we find a way to convert caliche-covered, weathered, H5 NWA's into fuel - there are enough of those to feed the world for generations to come. :) Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 8, 2011 5:22 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
If you want the truth about why oil is skyrocketing. Google *hedge funds* they are the problem . It is making hedge fund managers Billionaires. With a *B*. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/29/8378002/index.htm We need to get Congress to outlaw such acts of true economic terrorism. We are being raped. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Count and List, When the Chinese and Indians start driving cars at half the rate Americans do, the oil industry will either collapse or WWIII will start. There is not enough oil inside this planet to feed the projected demand in the next 50 years. If we are smart, we will relegate oil to the production of plastics and wean ourselves off that filthy fuel. I'm not a tree-hugger, just someone who can read the oily writing on the wall for petroleum. I propose we find a way to convert caliche-covered, weathered, H5 NWA's into fuel - there are enough of those to feed the world for generations to come. :) Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Aber, Martin, If you drive on the autobahn two gallons worth in Germany you will be in another country. Here, I am still in Nevada. In England, you drive two gallons worth and you will need scuba gear. Less than ten percent of the United States has intercity rail, or autobus. I must drive 450 miles to go from Las Vegas to the state capital of Nevada in Reno. There is no rail. The nearest cities in the surrounding states of California and Arizona is 300 miles and no rail. America is a huge country whose citizens built their society on access to inexpensive petroleum. We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Chooz! Guido -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Apr 8, 2011 5:22 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go What do you want? In Munich area it's over 8.6$ a gallon. Take a bicycle. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Freitag, 8. April 2011 12:29 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] freebies to go Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 11:15:45 -0400, you wrote: If you want the truth about why oil is skyrocketing. Google *hedge funds* they are the problem . It is making hedge fund managers Billionaires. HEDGE funds? So, it is the fault of a bush. I knew it. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cold asteroids may have a soft heart
Sorry if already posted... A new analysis of one of the most well-known meteorites on Earth provides strong evidence that the prevailing view of many asteroids is wrong. Rather than randomly mixed blobs of rock and dust stuck together, it appears that the asteroid that was the source of the Allende meteorite was large enough to have had a molten core, even though its surface remained cold and solid. The new view also suggests that astronomers’ view of how planets like the Earth formed may need revision... http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/allende-analysis-0408.html http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/03/28/1017165108 The Tricottet Collection (Historic Minerals, Fossils Meteorites) http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/ http://www.facebook.com/TheTricottetCollection http://twitter.com/TricottetColl# __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Ruben, Check my site there are many more reports beyond the AMS dirk --- On Sat, 4/9/11, Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee To: wahlpe...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 12:26 AM Hi all, Getting reports that there is not much to it. It seems like a very small event and not much doppler info. Darn! . On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:08 AM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi Robert and Ruben and List, Here is a link to the weather in Kentucky it looks ok. This one might be worth checking out. Sonny http://weather.yahoo.com/united-states/kentucky/louisville-2442327/ -Original Message- From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com To: Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Apr 8, 2011 3:34 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Hi Robert,Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can worksome magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would bereally cool for me - it fell on my birthday!On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolardmeteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list-- Rock On!Ruben GarciaWebsite: http://www.mr-meteorite.netArticles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u__Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li stinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170 billion barrels, still fabulously more than our reserves. Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain (discounting the politcal issues related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are increasingly deep water reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last summer) or in shales, which are environmentally destructive and energetically and mechanically difficult to extract; in fact, to date, there has been no economically viable method to extract these (but we will, when gas is expensive enough). The oil companies are going for the easy fruit first, as it is the most profitable. Sorry, but I have a difficult time letting false information get distributed - much like the NYT article. Plenty of others responded to that, so I'm responding to this one. The fact is, the Middle East holds more than one-half of the total reserves in the world. North America, including the shale sands in Canada holds maybe 16%. The largest reserves are in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the former USSR. We consume about 6.6 billion barrels per year, so we have about 3 or 4 years, if we drilled everything (that we 'own'). The world average consumption rate vs the reserves indicates that we have about 50-60 years left (at current consumption rates, which are increasing substantially each year). So, to recap this too long message: Oil prices reflect market forces, not environmentalist obstruction. The US does not have more oil, easily obtained or not, than the Middle East. We complain about high oil prices, not because of politicians, but because it means we have fewer dollars left to buy meteorites. (that puts it back on topic. Sort of.) David R. Vann, Ph.D. Department of Earth and Environmental Science THE UNIVERSITY of PENNSYLVANIA 240 S. 33rd St. Philadelphia, PA 19104-6316 drv...@sas.upenn.edu office: 215-898-4906 FAX: 215-898-0964 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Thanks Marc, That's what I was getting too! Please let us know if things change On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Marc, That's what I was getting too! Please let us know if things change On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 10:37 AM, Marc Fries chondriteh...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah I'm in DC, scrambling to get some work done before I have to go back to San Diego. I haven't had much time to look at it, but it appears to terminate east of Nashville. I pulled the nearby radars and quickly looked them over, and didn't see anything spectacular. If there are a small number of 100g-ish stones produced, then it wouldn't show up well on radar anyways. So, nice fireball but no Park Forest. I'd check the local media and anyone on the ground, but I personally wouldn't fly out for this one. That could change once I do get to sit down with the radar data in earnest, but I suspect Matson had a look as well. On Apr 8, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Ruben Garcia wrote: Hi all, Getting reports that there is not much to it. It seems like a very small event and not much doppler info. Darn! . On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 8:08 AM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi Robert and Ruben and List, Here is a link to the weather in Kentucky it looks ok. This one might be worth checking out. Sonny http://weather.yahoo.com/united-states/kentucky/louisville-2442327/ -Original Message- From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com To: Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Apr 8, 2011 3:34 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Hi Robert,Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can worksome magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would bereally cool for me - it fell on my birthday!On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolardmeteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list-- Rock On!Ruben GarciaWebsite: http://www.mr-meteorite.netArticles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u__Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li stinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Hi David, 340 billion dollars leaves the U.S. every year to buy oil, when we have all the oil we need right here, its the 24 billion barrels at the Bakken Oil Formation in S.D. Our politicians are running this scam and we are the fools. Think of all the jobs this would create and onshore drilling would also be much safer against oil spills, keeping the money here, would also greatly help America. Just what are the politicians thinking? Will the oil in the Bakken Formation free us from depending on foreign oil? You bet it will. We need more money to buy meteorites:) Best Regards, Timothy Heitz - not Ph.d - Original Message - From: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170 billion barrels, still fabulously more than our reserves. Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain (discounting the politcal issues related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are increasingly deep water reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last summer) or in shales, which are environmentally destructive and energetically and mechanically difficult to extract; in fact, to date, there has been no economically viable method to extract these (but we will, when gas is expensive enough). The oil companies are going for the easy fruit first, as it is the most profitable. Sorry, but I have a difficult time letting false information get distributed - much like the NYT article. Plenty of others responded to that, so I'm responding to this one. The fact is, the Middle East holds more than one-half of the total reserves in the world. North America, including the shale sands in Canada holds maybe 16%. The largest reserves are in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the former USSR. We consume about 6.6 billion barrels per year, so we have about 3 or 4 years, if we drilled everything (that we 'own'). The world average consumption rate vs the reserves indicates that we have
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
I think its more very long term thinking by the USA to corner the oil market once everyone elses oil supply is gone. The USA will end up being the next oil exporting giant. Use everyone elses then use ours. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality To: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 2:51 PM Hi David, 340 billion dollars leaves the U.S. every year to buy oil, when we have all the oil we need right here, its the 24 billion barrels at the Bakken Oil Formation in S.D. Our politicians are running this scam and we are the fools. Think of all the jobs this would create and onshore drilling would also be much safer against oil spills, keeping the money here, would also greatly help America. Just what are the politicians thinking? Will the oil in the Bakken Formation free us from depending on foreign oil? You bet it will. We need more money to buy meteorites:) Best Regards, Timothy Heitz - not Ph.d - Original Message - From: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170 billion barrels, still fabulously more than our reserves. Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain (discounting the politcal issues related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are increasingly deep water reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last summer) or in shales, which are environmentally destructive and energetically and mechanically difficult to
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
A speech was given at the 22nd Annual UVU Symposium on Environmental Ethics, held April 1st and 2nd at Utah Valley University, that addressed energy myths and realities. Not entirely related to oil reserves, but it's a great read and can be found here: http://www.questar.com/news/2009_news/UVUSpeech.pdf -Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: I think its more very long term thinking by the USA to corner the oil market once everyone elses oil supply is gone. The USA will end up being the next oil exporting giant. Use everyone elses then use ours. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Tim Heitz midwestmet...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality To: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 2:51 PM Hi David, 340 billion dollars leaves the U.S. every year to buy oil, when we have all the oil we need right here, its the 24 billion barrels at the Bakken Oil Formation in S.D. Our politicians are running this scam and we are the fools. Think of all the jobs this would create and onshore drilling would also be much safer against oil spills, keeping the money here, would also greatly help America. Just what are the politicians thinking? Will the oil in the Bakken Formation free us from depending on foreign oil? You bet it will. We need more money to buy meteorites:) Best Regards, Timothy Heitz - not Ph.d - Original Message - From: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
AAAUGH! I was trying to stop, not start this thread. The Bakken formation: 1. Where do you people get this stuff? USGS estimates for the Bakken are around 3-4 billion barrels in oil SHALE, the stuff that can't be obtained economically yet. So it doesn't help today, or even tomorrow (next decade, yes, maybe). 2. Do the math! We consume 6.6 billion barrels per year - even using the imaginary number of 24 billion barrels, that is only 3-4 years - that does not free us from foreign oil (at least not in my lifetime - maybe you're planning to pop off in the next year or so). To take this farther, the Green River formation has *way* more potential than the Bakken formation, and it is estimated that it can only yield some 1 million bbls/day at maximum capacity, but we can't recover it economically yet; USGS estimates put it out to 20yrs or more before the technical and economic hurdles are overcome. Greg, you are correct in noting that it has been determined that we are better off importing cheap foreign oil and keeping ours in reserve. We aren't likely ever to be oil exporters on the scale of Saudi Arabia, however. Mike, I completely agree that petroleum should be used for plastic, not burned, but we don't have viable alternatives for transportation at this time. And the other Mike, yes, why don't we try to use less? That's a very good idea, and I, for one, believe that reducing our dependence on foreign oil is good for our national security, but we don't have enough of our own to do so (yet). Politicians are not preventing the oil companies from exploiting oil shales, simple economics is. Politics seldom gets in the way of a determined industries profits. And Ted - thank you for your comments. The USGS is aware of the practices of the oil companies. The 'unreported' reserves are not ten times the reported ones. The Canadian oil shales are extensive, but it is very difficult to produce gasoline from them; they are probably going to used as is, via burning along with coal for energy. The large estimates there are energy equivalents (not actual barrels of gasoline), and will not ever bring the cost of gasoline down. (OK, not ever is maybe a bit overstated, but it is hard to see how - unless we all switch to electric cars running on Canadian oil shale generated power). Also, although there is a lot of rock there, it isn't all really extractable. Everyone - please do keep in mind that energy extraction from oil sands and shales is extremely destructive (strip-mining) of lands that hunters, fishermen, etc now enjoy, and it uses absolutely unconscionable amounts of water, which is left polluted with oil traces. In an era when fresh water supplies are dwindling, is this a good idea? Keep in mind that what started this was the notion that gas is 'expensive'. We may well have a lot of oil in shales, etc., but it is absolutely not cheap oil. If it were, the oil companies would be all over it - they are not idiots, you know. Unfortunately, for better or worse, cheap oil comes from the easy stuff, most of which is in the Middle East. Period. Is gas expensive? I remember 25 cent gas - do you? I started driving when it was maybe 50 cents. In pre-OPEC, inflation-adjusted dollars, we are paying something like $1.50 -$1.75 (envelope estimate) per gallon, about three times pre-OPEC. My parents bought the house I grew up in for $27K; my mother sold it for $175K, or something like 75K inflation adjusted dollars, or about three times initial cost. Make of that what you will, but I contend that gas is cheap in the US by any measure. The next post I make here will be meteorite-related, I promise. Maybe about how the Chixulub impactor is why there is so much oil in the Mexican basin A silly quibble: And, Tim-not PhD - that is the default signature put on my email when at work, not my attempt to add authority to my words - I am not a petroleum geologist. And, I must now get back to work - I don't think I will say anything more on this, as it seems to bring out the blind optimists who refuse to accept the facts and do something about them. David R. Vann, citizen and voter of the United States of America, who is concerned about rising energy costs and their toll on economic and social conditions. (is that better?) [opinions and facts expressed herein are my own and not necessarily the same as those of my employer, who strongly supports global sustainability issues] | -Original Message- | From: Tim Heitz [mailto:midwestmet...@earthlink.net] | Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 2:51 PM | To: David R. Vann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com | Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality | | | Hi David, | | 340 billion dollars leaves the U.S. every year to buy oil, | when we have all the oil we need right here, its the 24 | billion barrels at the | Bakken Oil Formation in S.D. | | Our politicians are running this scam and we are the fools. | Think of all the | jobs this would create | and
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
David, Thanks for the excellent synopsis. We certainly do go off topic on this list quiet often, but it is well thought out, reasoned and factual posts like yours that make these excursions not so unwelcome. I always find it interesting when complain about the highly manipulated and subsidized oil industry. The drill here crowd always say that by tapping resources here, the price of a gallon will come down. I always ask, Why is that? The crude will be sold on the open market, to anyone in the world with cash to buy it. There is zero evidence that the price will drop due to this new production, after the many years it would take to bring on line, because there is continuing and growing worldwide demand. It is no secret that the oil industry is highly subsidized in the US by tax breaks and a number of other benefits and gives backs We the People provide for this industry. If these blatant subsidizes alone were removed and these companies paid their fair share, the joke, smoke mirror political theater we have going on in DC right now would be wiped out. So, we could have everything being cut if the oil industry just paid their fair share. What always goes unspoken is the fact that the US military protects oil assets and transportation for most of the world, free of charge to both the industry and other countries. The American taxpayer is happy to borrow against their children's future to protect the price and supply of oil for the rest of you. You are welcome. All we ask is you continue to buy our debt and not burn our flag. I recently heard a report that if all of the subsidies were removed from the oil industry, including our military protection, the price per gallon here would be more than $14. I suspect it would be much higher than that in Europe because they would need to pay for protecting their own supplies, instead of letting the United States do it. On one last point, and very off topic even for this off topic post, The same group blamed for the price of gas is also blamed for the death of nuclear power here as well. Unfortunately that isn't true. The bankers are what has killed NP, because they refuse to put money into it. There is just too much down side for the investment. That's why nuclear power here requires large government oversight and huge government funds to exist. Big government and big spending is what is currently supporting both industries. So much for the free market. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
We should remove subsidies from EVERY industry. A true market economy. Only the strong will survive. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:12:13 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; David R. Vanndrv...@sas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality David, Thanks for the excellent synopsis. We certainly do go off topic on this list quiet often, but it is well thought out, reasoned and factual posts like yours that make these excursions not so unwelcome. I always find it interesting when complain about the highly manipulated and subsidized oil industry. The drill here crowd always say that by tapping resources here, the price of a gallon will come down. I always ask, Why is that? The crude will be sold on the open market, to anyone in the world with cash to buy it. There is zero evidence that the price will drop due to this new production, after the many years it would take to bring on line, because there is continuing and growing worldwide demand. It is no secret that the oil industry is highly subsidized in the US by tax breaks and a number of other benefits and gives backs We the People provide for this industry. If these blatant subsidizes alone were removed and these companies paid their fair share, the joke, smoke mirror political theater we have going on in DC right now would be wiped out. So, we could have everything being cut if the oil industry just paid their fair share. What always goes unspoken is the fact that the US military protects oil assets and transportation for most of the world, free of charge to both the industry and other countries. The American taxpayer is happy to borrow against their children's future to protect the price and supply of oil for the rest of you. You are welcome. All we ask is you continue to buy our debt and not burn our flag. I recently heard a report that if all of the subsidies were removed from the oil industry, including our military protection, the price per gallon here would be more than $14. I suspect it would be much higher than that in Europe because they would need to pay for protecting their own supplies, instead of letting the United States do it. On one last point, and very off topic even for this off topic post, The same group blamed for the price of gas is also blamed for the death of nuclear power here as well. Unfortunately that isn't true. The bankers are what has killed NP, because they refuse to put money into it. There is just too much down side for the investment. That's why nuclear power here requires large government oversight and huge government funds to exist. Big government and big spending is what is currently supporting both industries. So much for the free market. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Let's please stop this - We all have our opinions. I know Ph. D. scientists and engineers from research one universities and others actively doing this sort of work who disagree with you. They aren't on meteorite forums to answer you. There are forums more appropriate for that. I know you're not the first to start this and aren't solely at fault, and I apologize for singling you out - this is for everyone not just you. I'm tired of all the non-meteorite related political junk - much more than a simple delete button will suffice in this case. Can everyone please stop talking about politics, oil and alternative energy? The easiest way to stop is for everyone to stop or take it off line. If you want to reply to me, reply off line. Thanks, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ - Original Message From: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 12:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality AAAUGH! I was trying to stop, not start this thread. The Bakken formation: 1. Where do you people get this stuff? USGS estimates for the Bakken are around 3-4 billion barrels in oil SHALE, the stuff that can't be obtained economically yet. So it doesn't help today, or even tomorrow (next decade, yes, maybe). 2. Do the math! We consume 6.6 billion barrels per year - even using the imaginary number of 24 billion barrels, that is only 3-4 years - that does not free us from foreign oil (at least not in my lifetime - maybe you're planning to pop off in the next year or so). To take this farther, the Green River formation has *way* more potential than the Bakken formation, and it is estimated that it can only yield some 1 million bbls/day at maximum capacity, but we can't recover it economically yet; USGS estimates put it out to 20yrs or more before the technical and economic hurdles are overcome. Greg, you are correct in noting that it has been determined that we are better off importing cheap foreign oil and keeping ours in reserve. We aren't likely ever to be oil exporters on the scale of Saudi Arabia, however. Mike, I completely agree that petroleum should be used for plastic, not burned, but we don't have viable alternatives for transportation at this time. And the other Mike, yes, why don't we try to use less? That's a very good idea, and I, for one, believe that reducing our dependence on foreign oil is good for our national security, but we don't have enough of our own to do so (yet). Politicians are not preventing the oil companies from exploiting oil shales, simple economics is. Politics seldom gets in the way of a determined industries profits. And Ted - thank you for your comments. The USGS is aware of the practices of the oil companies. The 'unreported' reserves are not ten times the reported ones. The Canadian oil shales are extensive, but it is very difficult to produce gasoline from them; they are probably going to used as is, via burning along with coal for energy. The large estimates there are energy equivalents (not actual barrels of gasoline), and will not ever bring the cost of gasoline down. (OK, not ever is maybe a bit overstated, but it is hard to see how - unless we all switch to electric cars running on Canadian oil shale generated power). Also, although there is a lot of rock there, it isn't all really extractable. Everyone - please do keep in mind that energy extraction from oil sands and shales is extremely destructive (strip-mining) of lands that hunters, fishermen, etc now enjoy, and it uses absolutely unconscionable amounts of water, which is left polluted with oil traces. In an era when fresh water supplies are dwindling, is this a good idea? Keep in mind that what started this was the notion that gas is 'expensive'. We may well have a lot of oil in shales, etc., but it is absolutely not cheap oil. If it were, the oil companies would be all over it - they are not idiots, you know. Unfortunately, for better or worse, cheap oil comes from the easy stuff, most of which is in the Middle East. Period. Is gas expensive? I remember 25 cent gas - do you? I started driving when it was maybe 50 cents. In pre-OPEC, inflation-adjusted dollars, we are paying something like $1.50 -$1.75 (envelope estimate) per gallon, about three times pre-OPEC. My parents bought the house I grew up in for $27K; my mother sold it for $175K, or something like 75K inflation adjusted dollars, or about three times initial cost. Make of that what you will, but I contend that gas is cheap in the US by any measure. The next post I make here will be meteorite-related, I promise. Maybe about how the Chixulub impactor is why there is so much oil in the Mexican basin A silly quibble: And, Tim-not PhD - that is the default signature put on my email when at work, not my attempt to add authority to my words - I am not a petroleum geologist. And, I must now get back to work - I don't think I will say anything more on this, as it
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Before Art politely asks us to shut down this OT thread, I wanted to add a little something. I lived in southern Louisiana for 10 years. For those of you who have never been there, let me describe the area in one word - DIRTY. Don't get me wrong, I met some of the nicest people there. But the land, air, and water are filthy by any definition of the word. Why? Because the oil industry is everywhere in southern Louisiana. It is not being environmentalist or liberal to say that oil is a dirty industry. It is the truth that the oil companies go to great lengths to obfuscate. Anyone who has been near an oil refinery or drilling rig will tell you - it is dirty. It produces copious amounts of pollution even under the best of circumstances and regulations. Everywhere oil has a presence, it's footprint is big and dirty. I'm glad our governor had the sense to restrict on-shore drilling. I enjoy clean beaches, wildlife, and unspoiled natural areas. I want my grandson to grow up with these same beaches. The fact that some self-centered, short-sighted people think we should destroy our land in order to drive Humvees and use gas-powered leaf blowers to clean their driveways does not impress me in the least. If they love oil that much, let them go build a house next to an oil refinery and have their children grow up in an area soaked with carcinogens. I sweep my driveway with a broom and I rake my yard with a rake. When I used to work at Lowes, I'd see people pull up in their Humvees and purchase a yard-vacuum attachment for their riding mower - so they can have an aesthetically pleasing yard free of bothersome leaves with a minimum of work. It's laziness and entitlement - pure and simple. The attitude is - I worked hard for mine, so screw you, screw your kids and screw the planet. If I want to burn fossil fuels to clean my lawn, I am entitled to do so. If people would wise up, grow up, and act like adults, we could slash our oil consumption considerably. We burn oil and gasoline for the stupidest things - all because we have the freedom to do so. One of the first lessons every child should learn is - just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Many adults have never learned this lesson. I never want Florida to look like Louisiana. There is a reason nobody lines up to take vacations on Louisiana or Texas beaches. And there is a reason why Florida's beaches are famous around the world. That reason is very easy to see. Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. Best regards and back to meteorites, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/8/11, David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu wrote: AAAUGH! I was trying to stop, not start this thread. The Bakken formation: 1. Where do you people get this stuff? USGS estimates for the Bakken are around 3-4 billion barrels in oil SHALE, the stuff that can't be obtained economically yet. So it doesn't help today, or even tomorrow (next decade, yes, maybe). 2. Do the math! We consume 6.6 billion barrels per year - even using the imaginary number of 24 billion barrels, that is only 3-4 years - that does not free us from foreign oil (at least not in my lifetime - maybe you're planning to pop off in the next year or so). To take this farther, the Green River formation has *way* more potential than the Bakken formation, and it is estimated that it can only yield some 1 million bbls/day at maximum capacity, but we can't recover it economically yet; USGS estimates put it out to 20yrs or more before the technical and economic hurdles are overcome. Greg, you are correct in noting that it has been determined that we are better off importing cheap foreign oil and keeping ours in reserve. We aren't likely ever to be oil exporters on the scale of Saudi Arabia, however. Mike, I completely agree that petroleum should be used for plastic, not burned, but we don't have viable alternatives for transportation at this time. And the other Mike, yes, why don't we try to use less? That's a very good idea, and I, for one, believe that reducing our dependence on foreign oil is good for our national security, but we don't have enough of our own to do so (yet). Politicians are not preventing the oil companies from exploiting oil shales, simple economics is. Politics seldom gets in the way of a determined industries profits.
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Go electric. Eric On 4/8/2011 1:30 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote: Before Art politely asks us to shut down this OT thread, I wanted to add a little something. I lived in southern Louisiana for 10 years. For those of you who have never been there, let me describe the area in one word - DIRTY. Don't get me wrong, I met some of the nicest people there. But the land, air, and water are filthy by any definition of the word. Why? Because the oil industry is everywhere in southern Louisiana. It is not being environmentalist or liberal to say that oil is a dirty industry. It is the truth that the oil companies go to great lengths to obfuscate. Anyone who has been near an oil refinery or drilling rig will tell you - it is dirty. It produces copious amounts of pollution even under the best of circumstances and regulations. Everywhere oil has a presence, it's footprint is big and dirty. I'm glad our governor had the sense to restrict on-shore drilling. I enjoy clean beaches, wildlife, and unspoiled natural areas. I want my grandson to grow up with these same beaches. The fact that some self-centered, short-sighted people think we should destroy our land in order to drive Humvees and use gas-powered leaf blowers to clean their driveways does not impress me in the least. If they love oil that much, let them go build a house next to an oil refinery and have their children grow up in an area soaked with carcinogens. I sweep my driveway with a broom and I rake my yard with a rake. When I used to work at Lowes, I'd see people pull up in their Humvees and purchase a yard-vacuum attachment for their riding mower - so they can have an aesthetically pleasing yard free of bothersome leaves with a minimum of work. It's laziness and entitlement - pure and simple. The attitude is - I worked hard for mine, so screw you, screw your kids and screw the planet. If I want to burn fossil fuels to clean my lawn, I am entitled to do so. If people would wise up, grow up, and act like adults, we could slash our oil consumption considerably. We burn oil and gasoline for the stupidest things - all because we have the freedom to do so. One of the first lessons every child should learn is - just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Many adults have never learned this lesson. I never want Florida to look like Louisiana. There is a reason nobody lines up to take vacations on Louisiana or Texas beaches. And there is a reason why Florida's beaches are famous around the world. That reason is very easy to see. Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. Best regards and back to meteorites, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/8/11, David R. Vanndrv...@sas.upenn.edu wrote: AAAUGH! I was trying to stop, not start this thread. The Bakken formation: 1. Where do you people get this stuff? USGS estimates for the Bakken are around 3-4 billion barrels in oil SHALE, the stuff that can't be obtained economically yet. So it doesn't help today, or even tomorrow (next decade, yes, maybe). 2. Do the math! We consume 6.6 billion barrels per year - even using the imaginary number of 24 billion barrels, that is only 3-4 years - that does not free us from foreign oil (at least not in my lifetime - maybe you're planning to pop off in the next year or so). To take this farther, the Green River formation has *way* more potential than the Bakken formation, and it is estimated that it can only yield some 1 million bbls/day at maximum capacity, but we can't recover it economically yet; USGS estimates put it out to 20yrs or more before the technical and economic hurdles are overcome. Greg, you are correct in noting that it has been determined that we are better off importing cheap foreign oil and keeping ours in reserve. We aren't likely ever to be oil exporters on the scale of Saudi Arabia, however. Mike, I completely agree that petroleum should be used for plastic, not burned, but we don't have viable alternatives for transportation at this time. And the other Mike, yes, why don't we try to use less? That's a very good idea, and I, for one, believe that reducing our dependence on foreign oil is good for our national security, but we don't have enough of our own to do so (yet). Politicians are not preventing the oil companies from exploiting oil shales, simple economics is. Politics seldom gets in the way
Re: [meteorite-list] (meteorobs) Fireball Over Southern USA April 7th UT
I have updated this post with recent trajectory information provided by Bill Cooke as well as an updated map of the AMS plots. http://www.amsmeteors.org/2011/04/large-fireball-event-reported-4611/ I did not post the exact coordinates on the website for privacy reasons, but if anyone is serious about hunting meteorites here email me off list and i can forward you the information. It is interesting to compare the track derived visually from the intersection of vectors on the witness reports and the actual 3d track computed mathematically using precise data collected from three all sky cameras. It is also worth noting the mass estimate of the meteoroid -- 90kg, that is 3x the mass estimate of the recent OKC fireball. Much thanks to Bill and his team for collecting, analyzing and sharing this data. On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com wrote: Bob, You beat me to the punch. I literally just pushed publish on this report: http://www.amsmeteors.org/2011/04/large-fireball-event-reported-4611/ The NASA All Sky Camera Network captured the event on 2 cameras. The AMS post includes a still picture of the event and a map of the AMS plots. Early analysis of the AMS reports put the termination of the event SE of Louisville KY. The MEO will be releasing the videos, trajectory and orbit information later today. Thanks, MIke On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 7:12 AM, lunro.imo@cox.net wrote: A fireball as bright as the quarter moon (magnitude -9) was reported from South Carolina to Arkansas. It occurred near 01:20 Universal TIme on April 7th or the evening of April 6th local time. Reports of colors spanned the rainbow but the most often reported colors were white, blue, and green. Summaries of these reports may be viewed on the fireball table of the American Meteor Society at: http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball2/public.php?start_date=2011-01-01end_date=2011-12-31 Refer to event #375 in the 2011 table. Clear Skies! Robert Lunsford American Meteor Society ___ Mailing list meteorobs: meteor...@meteorobs.org To UNSUBSCRIBE, email: owner-meteor...@meteorobs.org http://lists.meteorobs.org/mailman/listinfo/meteorobs __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Peak Met!! Was 5 years ago. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Oil prices increase for three reasons 1. Shortage of supply2. Increase in demand3. Instability in regions (countries) that supply oil (this creates the believe the price will increase in the future) In 2008 the increase was due to hedge funds and futures trading. Now let's get back to meteorites please. Greg S. From: drv...@sas.upenn.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 14:16:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170 billion barrels, still fabulously more than our reserves. Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain (discounting the politcal issues related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are increasingly deep water reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last summer) or in shales, which are environmentally destructive and energetically and mechanically difficult to extract; in fact, to date, there has been no economically viable method to extract these (but we will, when gas is expensive enough). The oil companies are going for the easy fruit first, as it is the most profitable. Sorry, but I have a difficult time letting false information get distributed - much like the NYT article. Plenty of others responded to that, so I'm responding to this one. The fact is, the Middle East holds more than one-half of the total reserves in the world. North America, including the shale sands in Canada holds maybe 16%. The largest reserves are in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the former USSR. We consume about 6.6 billion barrels per year, so we have about 3 or 4 years, if we drilled everything (that we 'own'). The world average consumption rate vs the reserves indicates that we have about 50-60 years left (at current consumption rates, which are increasing substantially each year). So, to recap this too long message: Oil prices reflect market forces, not environmentalist obstruction. The US does not have more oil, easily obtained or not, than the Middle
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
I can't reply on list because I'd be a hypocrite - I guess MikeG doesn't have a car. And per his earlier post, if he wasn't to sit on a fortune instead of using it to keep his portfolio (or in this case - keep America the world leader), then so be it. He doesn't understand the time value of money or economics. He can bury his talents, but you and I can use them to double or quadruple them... Have a great weekend! :) Mark - Original Message From: geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 1:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Let's stop the thread now (thanks for trying David!). Cheers, Art On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com wrote: I can't reply on list because I'd be a hypocrite - I guess MikeG doesn't have a car. And per his earlier post, if he wasn't to sit on a fortune instead of using it to keep his portfolio (or in this case - keep America the world leader), then so be it. He doesn't understand the time value of money or economics. He can bury his talents, but you and I can use them to double or quadruple them... Have a great weekend! :) Mark - Original Message From: geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 1:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apologies
My apologies to the list - this was meant to be between me and GeoZay. MikeG I didn't intend to do this on purpose. My apologies. Please let's stop - the old saying about mixing politics and religion is for this very reason. None of us will ever see eye to eye on these complex topics. I'm a mining engineer and I see a lot said that just does not fit what I have learned or experienced. I don't want to drink oil or pour it on the beach. I don't want to give up my car either. I don't want my privilege of being born in the USA and my lifestyle choices being exported onto the backs on the powerless masses in the third world, whose homes and ecosystems are being destroyed, and their safety and health being destroyed because, as I see it, we, who consume most of everything made, do not want to see a relatively pristine oil rig or open pit mine anywhere near anywhere we go. I respect those who choose to forgo cars and electricity because they don't want to burden the earth. I do not respect those who want to force others to change their lifestyles, while they do not. I see a lot of complaining about problems, but I don't see much leadership offered. I see a lot of proposals for alternative energy, but I don't see them putting their money into those investments. I see America exporting and outsourcing more and more while the debt load continues to grow. Our politicians have been lying to us by downplaying our debt. Mark Bowling Vail, Arizona - Original Message From: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com To: geo...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 2:37:44 PM Subject: Re:OT -Oil reserves, the reality I can't reply on list because I'd be a hypocrite - I guess MikeG doesn't have a car. And per his earlier post, if he wasn't to sit on a fortune instead of using it to keep his portfolio (or in this case - keep America the world leader), then so be it. He doesn't understand the time value of money or economics. He can bury his talents, but you and I can use them to double or quadruple them... Have a great weekend! :) Mark - Original Message From: geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 1:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2011
Actually if the adhesive is really old, I think it may be starch-based. Comes off real easy with water, but not so good for the meteorite. Later adhesives will not come off with water, and trying to remove them this way can destroy them. Reason I comment on this - same issue with trying to remove old manuscript letters that were pasted into autograph albums to preserve them. As with the letters, it is probably best to leave the labels and meteorite as is. At least to me, those labels add quite a bit to the specimen. Great photo! Mark Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts http://meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/MetManuscripts http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Meteorite-Manuscripts/152949358073543?v=wall - Original Message - From: Chris Spratt cspr...@islandnet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2011 I'm surprised the labels are still sticking after all these years. Better gum in those days. Most modern day labels would have dropped off in a short time (months not years). Chris. Spratt Victoria. BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] freebies to go
$10.2765 a gallon here in the UK Graham On 8 April 2011 11:28, steve arnold stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com wrote: Good morning list.5:30 AM RISE AND SHINE! Hey I have lots more freebies to give away.Unclassed stones and black campo crystals. 8 people have chimed in and I still have 12 more to go.Remember USA only because of postage rates.Almost as bad as gas prices.In chicago area its over $4 a gallon.Anyway,have a great day all. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apologies
Hi Mark, Geo, and List, I agree with Mark here. I apologize also for shooting off my mouth. Thankfully we all agree on meteorites and that is what unites us - so let's concentrate on that. :) I think that big injection of negative energy from the NYT article has stirred up the waters and a portion of this discussion was indirectly fueled by that. And to my remaining friends in Louisiana - I didn't mean to offend and I apologize also. I only meant to point out that Louisiana is worth saving and has not gotten a fair shake. Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com wrote: My apologies to the list - this was meant to be between me and GeoZay. MikeG I didn't intend to do this on purpose. My apologies. Please let's stop - the old saying about mixing politics and religion is for this very reason. None of us will ever see eye to eye on these complex topics. I'm a mining engineer and I see a lot said that just does not fit what I have learned or experienced. I don't want to drink oil or pour it on the beach. I don't want to give up my car either. I don't want my privilege of being born in the USA and my lifestyle choices being exported onto the backs on the powerless masses in the third world, whose homes and ecosystems are being destroyed, and their safety and health being destroyed because, as I see it, we, who consume most of everything made, do not want to see a relatively pristine oil rig or open pit mine anywhere near anywhere we go. I respect those who choose to forgo cars and electricity because they don't want to burden the earth. I do not respect those who want to force others to change their lifestyles, while they do not. I see a lot of complaining about problems, but I don't see much leadership offered. I see a lot of proposals for alternative energy, but I don't see them putting their money into those investments. I see America exporting and outsourcing more and more while the debt load continues to grow. Our politicians have been lying to us by downplaying our debt. Mark Bowling Vail, Arizona - Original Message From: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com To: geo...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 2:37:44 PM Subject: Re:OT -Oil reserves, the reality I can't reply on list because I'd be a hypocrite - I guess MikeG doesn't have a car. And per his earlier post, if he wasn't to sit on a fortune instead of using it to keep his portfolio (or in this case - keep America the world leader), then so be it. He doesn't understand the time value of money or economics. He can bury his talents, but you and I can use them to double or quadruple them... Have a great weekend! :) Mark - Original Message From: geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 1:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apologies
Thanks for your graciousness MikeG! Yes, the one thing that we can all agree on is the awesomeness of our extraterrestrial visitors (talking rocks here folks...). And the benefit of having a clean, safe environment within which to enjoy them. Clear skies and happy weekend all, Mark - Original Message From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com Cc: geo...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 3:33:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apologies Hi Mark, Geo, and List, I agree with Mark here. I apologize also for shooting off my mouth. Thankfully we all agree on meteorites and that is what unites us - so let's concentrate on that. :) I think that big injection of negative energy from the NYT article has stirred up the waters and a portion of this discussion was indirectly fueled by that. And to my remaining friends in Louisiana - I didn't mean to offend and I apologize also. I only meant to point out that Louisiana is worth saving and has not gotten a fair shake. Best regards, MikeG On 4/8/11, Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com wrote: My apologies to the list - this was meant to be between me and GeoZay. MikeG I didn't intend to do this on purpose. My apologies. Please let's stop - the old saying about mixing politics and religion is for this very reason. None of us will ever see eye to eye on these complex topics. I'm a mining engineer and I see a lot said that just does not fit what I have learned or experienced. I don't want to drink oil or pour it on the beach. I don't want to give up my car either. I don't want my privilege of being born in the USA and my lifestyle choices being exported onto the backs on the powerless masses in the third world, whose homes and ecosystems are being destroyed, and their safety and health being destroyed because, as I see it, we, who consume most of everything made, do not want to see a relatively pristine oil rig or open pit mine anywhere near anywhere we go. I respect those who choose to forgo cars and electricity because they don't want to burden the earth. I do not respect those who want to force others to change their lifestyles, while they do not. I see a lot of complaining about problems, but I don't see much leadership offered. I see a lot of proposals for alternative energy, but I don't see them putting their money into those investments. I see America exporting and outsourcing more and more while the debt load continues to grow. Our politicians have been lying to us by downplaying our debt. Mark Bowling Vail, Arizona - Original Message From: Mark Bowling mina...@yahoo.com To: geo...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 2:37:44 PM Subject: Re:OT -Oil reserves, the reality I can't reply on list because I'd be a hypocrite - I guess MikeG doesn't have a car. And per his earlier post, if he wasn't to sit on a fortune instead of using it to keep his portfolio (or in this case - keep America the world leader), then so be it. He doesn't understand the time value of money or economics. He can bury his talents, but you and I can use them to double or quadruple them... Have a great weekend! :) Mark - Original Message From: geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 1:44:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Every time I hear somebody say drill, baby, drill!, I want to drill them in their face with my fist. I could but I don't - because I am not a child and I can control my urges - unlike many fools who burn gas like it grows on trees. I guess that's your opinion...but mine has been Drill, Baby, Drill for quite some while. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Meteorites USA wrote: Go electric Yeah, 'cuz electricity is generated far, far away, so my backyard won't get messed up and someone else's neighborhood will be scourged by solar fields and windmill farms! It was observed during the last price run-up that people's driving habits actually started to become more conservative as gas approached $4 per gallon. IMHO, a positive step provided by market forces. Paul __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
Let's stop the thread now (thanks for trying David!). Cheers, Art Oops! Sorry, Art, I posted to this thread before I got you your message. Paul __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011
Bill Cooke has been nice enough to send me a dark flight model for the recent TN fall. The track was computed with 3 all sky cameras. We decided it would be best to not post this on the web as doing so could encourage bad behavior from the masses and wackos on the internet. This could lead to risk for hassle / trouble with local landowners and bad press for the meteorite community. Instead we decided that it would be best to let the community know the information exists and provide it by request only. So if anyone wants this KMZ feel free to contact me and I will send it to you. If you have already contacted me earlier for the track info, I will send you the whole package shortly. I personally think it is really great that Bill's office has started to roll out these cameras and is openly sharing the information and analysis. This is a real benefit to the meteorite community. It is really nice of Bill to share this info with us so please lets not screw this up by trespassing, being disrespectful to locals or getting in trouble. Below are Bill's comments regarding the KMZ file and how it should be used: Bear in mind that we lost track of the meteor fairly high up, before it underwent significant deceleration. Therefore this is a rough estimate only, pinpointing a general impact area. Please also emphasize hunters should respect the wishes of the property holders. The Scottsboro farmer did not much appreciate people tramping on his land,which is why I am reluctant to divulge impact locations. We'll give this a try. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality
As was famously said...Far be it of me to argue with a PHD. I thank you again, David, for the little green visitor. It occupies a place of honor in my cabinet. Regards, Guido -Original Message- From: David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu Sent: Apr 8, 2011 11:16 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -Oil reserves, the reality Thought maybe it was time to change the thread title, and maybe stop this non-meteorite thread. In truth, I am responding to correct some factually inaccurate statements. Guido, I respectfully suggest that you investigate the facts before you make statements like We are played for fools by the career politicians in Washington who pander to the environmentalists and prevent us from tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East. That's why we object to increased pump prices. Politicians are not pandering to environmentalists, they are pandering to businesses, I think the events of the last thirty years speak very strongly to this; attacks on the Clean Air and Clean water acts, the Great Recession, the Savings and Loan disaster, the Energy trading frauds, etc. (I can go on for quite a while here, but is not the forum). Environmentalists have very little influence on the price of oil, if any. Rather, market forces determine this entirely. Examples: in the late '70's oil did not skyrocket because of environmentalists, it did so because OPEC was flexing its newfound muscle. Oil prices did not jump prior to the Great Recession because of environmentalists; it jumped because of speculators and because the oil refiners underestimated demand by China and India, resulting in inadequte production capacity (there was plenty of crude oil). The cost of oil is related to the cost of drilling; I could, again, go on, but this isn't really the forum. Suffice it to say, the price of oil is driven by market factors that are *not* related to supply, as the supply can be (and frequently is) increased to meet demand. So, environmentalists atempting to reduce drilling are not affecting the price, regardless of how one wants to view it. Most recently, the state of Florida, under a Republican govorner, decided to limit in-shore drilling to protect the states' fishing and tourist industries. They were deemed more valuable (to the state) than the short-term gains from onshore drilling - an economic argument, not an environmental one. Our oil prices are lower because we consume so much, getting a discount, and because we subsidize the oil companies with tax dollars. Government subsidies for profitable companies are not defensible, yet they keep getting them, because the politicians are pandering to the industries paying for their reelection. The final inaccuracy, tapping our own reserves which are larger and easier to obtain than all the oil in the Middle East is the most egregious. This is simply wrong. The proven resources in the US are about 22 billion barrels of oil; Saudi arabia *alone* has an estimated 270 billion barrels. Although that number has been questioned as possibly politically motivated, it is not overestmated by a factor of ten. If we take the 1968 numbers (before OPEC), they had something like 170 billion barrels, still fabulously more than our reserves. Our remaining reserves are not easier to obtain (discounting the politcal issues related to dealing with the Middle East), as they are increasingly deep water reserves (whose difficulty was amply demonstrated last summer) or in shales, which are environmentally destructive and energetically and mechanically difficult to extract; in fact, to date, there has been no economically viable method to extract these (but we will, when gas is expensive enough). The oil companies are going for the easy fruit first, as it is the most profitable. Sorry, but I have a difficult time letting false information get distributed - much like the NYT article. Plenty of others responded to that, so I'm responding to this one. The fact is, the Middle East holds more than one-half of the total reserves in the world. North America, including the shale sands in Canada holds maybe 16%. The largest reserves are in Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the former USSR. We consume about 6.6 billion barrels per year, so we have about 3 or 4 years, if we drilled everything (that we 'own'). The world average consumption rate vs the reserves indicates that we have about 50-60 years left (at current consumption rates, which are increasing substantially each year). So, to recap this too long message: Oil prices reflect market forces, not environmentalist obstruction. The US does not have more oil, easily obtained or not, than the Middle East. We complain about high oil prices, not because of politicians, but because it means we have fewer dollars left to buy meteorites. (that puts it back on topic. Sort of.) David R. Vann, Ph.D. Department of Earth and
Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011
Mike, Bill and all! Thank you guys very much for this. Jim Wooddell __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011
I echo Jim's sentiments. This is OUR LIST at its best! Best wishes, Robert Woolard --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011 To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 7:25 PM Mike, Bill and all! Thank you guys very much for this. Jim Wooddell __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011
I think these camera's are going to dial this program in and what we are seeing now is the future. At least at night time. It can only get better! During this meteor, it appears the witness statements show this thing going much further than the cameras do. Jim On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: I echo Jim's sentiments. This is OUR LIST at its best! Best wishes, Robert Woolard --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011 To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 7:25 PM Mike, Bill and all! Thank you guys very much for this. Jim Wooddell __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011
When I seen the flight path, I was hopeing it skiped over Cincinnati and landed on some of our family farms Maybe I will get lucky!lol Dave Myers - Original Message From: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com To: Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 8:41:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011 I think these camera's are going to dial this program in and what we are seeing now is the future. At least at night time. It can only get better! During this meteor, it appears the witness statements show this thing going much further than the cameras do. Jim On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: I echo Jim's sentiments. This is OUR LIST at its best! Best wishes, Robert Woolard --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] dark flight kmz for TN 4/6/2011 To: Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 7:25 PM Mike, Bill and all! Thank you guys very much for this. Jim Wooddell __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hi Ruben/Robert/List, I haven't found anything yet in the Doppler data from Nashville or Knoxville. Checking Huntsville next... --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Garcia Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:35 AM To: Robert Woolard Cc: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Hi Robert, Nice job on bringing this to the list! Maybe Fries and Matson can work some magic and direct us to some galactic gravel. This one would be really cool for me - it fell on my birthday! On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Robert Woolard meteoritefin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, If you haven't already seen today's Spaceweather page, it says the following: TENNESSEE FIREBALL: Space rocks have landed in Tennessee. That's the conclusion of researchers who recorded a brilliant fireball streaking over the Smoky Mountain state on Wednesday evening. Bill Cooke of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office reports: On April 6th at 8:21:57 CDT, NASA all-sky meteor cameras detected a very bright fireball moving north across the state of Tennessee. First detected 52 miles above the Arnold Air Force base near Tullahoma, the meteor was brighter than crescent Moon and was approximately 2 feet in diameter, with a weight of 200 lbs. It was last recorded 30 miles above the town of Woodbury, Tennessee, moving at a speed of approximately 9 miles per second (32,400 mph). Cooke continues: The NASA Meteoroid Environment Office has reasonable confidence that some fraction of this meteor survived to the ground as one or more meteorites. Calculations are underway to determine the general impact location, which may lie close to the Kentucky border. Any of our great radar-wonder-wizards working on this one yet??? Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Also came up empty with the Huntsville radar. Just requested the Birmingham radar data. If anyone wants to check the Doppler data themselves, you can download the images for from 4/7/2011 01:00-02:00 UT from: Knoxville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201847/ Nashville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201848/ Huntsville, AL: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201851/ --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Sounds like another dud. Thanks Again Marc, Rob, and Robert! On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: Also came up empty with the Huntsville radar. Just requested the Birmingham radar data. If anyone wants to check the Doppler data themselves, you can download the images for from 4/7/2011 01:00-02:00 UT from: Knoxville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201847/ Nashville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201848/ Huntsville, AL: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201851/ --Rob -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee
Hello: You might want to check to see if it was caught by these cameras; http://fireballs.ndc.nasa.gov/ richard -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Matson, Robert D. Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 9:14 PM To: Ruben Garcia; Robert Woolard Cc: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Meteorites on the Ground in Tennessee Also came up empty with the Huntsville radar. Just requested the Birmingham radar data. If anyone wants to check the Doppler data themselves, you can download the images for from 4/7/2011 01:00-02:00 UT from: Knoxville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201847/ Nashville, TN: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201848/ Huntsville, AL: http://ftp3.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/has/HAS002201851/ --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 9, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_9_2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum postcard
Hi list, does anyone have one of the various postcards of the Meteorite Museum at Winslow location? Will pay or swap. A good quality scan will do, too. Thanks, Regine __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
