Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
Has no one noticed the NAME given to this valley before they decide to take a stroll (or a roll) through it? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Death by GPS in desert by Tom Knudson, The Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
haha, I saw this a while back and laughed. If you understand how to to orienteering you don't have a big issue when visiting the Mojave (Death Valley) or Sonoran deserts. But if you go through life not understanding how things work you should just stay home. RobH -- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:09 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Paul H bristo...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Has no one noticed the NAME given to this valley before they decide to take a stroll (or a roll) through it? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Death by GPS in desert by Tom Knudson, The Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
Just another reason I always carry a PLB with me. I just hope I never have to use it (but they tell me they'll give me a free battery if I ever do g ). patrick On 13 Apr 2011, at 00:25, Rob Holcomb wrote: haha, I saw this a while back and laughed. If you understand how to to orienteering you don't have a big issue when visiting the Mojave (Death Valley) or Sonoran deserts. But if you go through life not understanding how things work you should just stay home. RobH -- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:09 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Paul H bristo...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Has no one noticed the NAME given to this valley before they decide to take a stroll (or a roll) through it? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Death by GPS in desert by Tom Knudson, The Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
I don't see anything hahaable about the story. Bill From: rob.holc...@gmail.com To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 23:25:45 -0700 CC: bristo...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert haha, I saw this a while back and laughed. If you understand how to to orienteering you don't have a big issue when visiting the Mojave (Death Valley) or Sonoran deserts. But if you go through life not understanding how things work you should just stay home. RobH -- From: Sterling K. Webb Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:09 PM To: Cc: Paul H Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Has no one noticed the NAME given to this valley before they decide to take a stroll (or a roll) through it? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Paul H. To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Death by GPS in desert by Tom Knudson, The Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list I don't see anything am __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Life Survives in a Meteorite 12APR1961 50 years Ago
Dear List, Today marks an important day for proving that life can survive in a meteorite. Welcome Home Yuri! Bless You! http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/50-years-hero-yuri-alekseyevich-gagarin.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
You don't need a gps to kill your kid in a hot car. Those of us who live in hot desert regions know all too well that kids die in cars every summer because the parent decides not to wake them up and just leave them in their seats when they go into a store for just a few minutes, or bring the packages into the house and forget the kid is still in the car. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Life Survives in a Meteorite 12APR1961 50 years Ago
Very droll...Dirk. Ha! Ha!Ha! I remember the fusion crust on Vostok 1. It looked like a great big Pultusk. Guido -Original Message- From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com Sent: Apr 12, 2011 11:39 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Life Survives in a Meteorite 12APR1961 50 years Ago Dear List, Today marks an important day for proving that life can survive in a meteorite. Welcome Home Yuri! Bless You! http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/50-years-hero-yuri-alekseyevich-gagarin.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
Yes, so? You've gotta be kidding me that you're criticizing me on this. Lighten up Bill. I was talking about Sterling's comment! (if I build a house in a strewn field do you not deride me when it rains down on me?) The story in specific isn't funny, but after the Kim's story from Oregon and these various desert stories, WHO trusts their GPS? There is a certain amount of common sense, some basic instinct and SOME MORE COMMON sense that needs to be used instead of relying on devices that aren't understood. If you don't know how stuff works (or you don't respect a name like Death Valley!), then STAY HOME! Don't expect me to feel sorry for you. Rob H -- From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:38 PM To: rob.holc...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert I don't see anything hahaable about the story. Bill From: rob.holc...@gmail.com To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 23:25:45 -0700 CC: bristo...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert haha, I saw this a while back and laughed. If you understand how to to orienteering you don't have a big issue when visiting the Mojave (Death Valley) or Sonoran deserts. But if you go through life not understanding how things work you should just stay home. RobH -- From: Sterling K. Webb Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:09 PM To: Cc: Paul H Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Has no one noticed the NAME given to this valley before they decide to take a stroll (or a roll) through it? Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Paul H. To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert Death by GPS in desert by Tom Knudson, The Sacremento Bee, Jan. 30, 2011, http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/30/3362727/death-by-gps-in-desert.html Experts Warn of 'Death by GPS' as More People Visit Remote Wildernesses, FoxNews.com,February 04, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/04/death-gps-rise/?test=faces Using GPS Navigation - http://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/directions.htm yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list I don't see anything am = __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
I agree Shawn...The first two do look lunar though...but not the ones they say...and the last looks like the NWA Chassignite 2737!!! I just looked through some others and I think several other of the lunar slices are mixed up too. They need to be told I think before they get circulated under the wrong names or folks end up getting something different from the photos when they bidnot good. Perhaps someone on this list is auctioning them through Bonhams? Graham, UK On 13 April 2011 08:12, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
100% not Zagami. Images and Descriptions became shuffled. On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins IMCA#9822 www.fusioncrust.com - Original Message From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 6:46:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. 100% not Zagami. Images and Descriptions became shuffled. On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar alGani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
Shawn and List, I have several specimens of both Nakhla (including a 2.1 gram example from the British Museum) and Dar al Gani 400. Neither resemble the Bonham offerings. Maybe those on List with more knowledge than I can identify what meteorites are depicted. Regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Sent: Apr 13, 2011 12:12 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Changing email addresses
Howdy, Please change my email address from 2hal...@cox.net to hal...@halice.com. Thanks Hal Krohn __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Hi Stuart and Bill, I tend to agree with Stuart on this one. Although, the damage done would depend on several factors, including the angle and speed of the descent. The type of roof would make a difference also. The roof of an industrial or hardened structure might resist penetration, but I think a typical residential or commercial roof would be penetrated to great effect by an 8-pound meteorite. However unlikely, it could have fallen from the wheel well of an airplane. It could have also been thrown by a large wood chipper operating a block away. Also, one cannot discount the power of drunken hooligans who like to cause damage for no logical reason. With meteorite hammer falls being so rare, there are a multitude of possible explanations that are more likely, even though some scenarios might seem far-fetched. Strange things happen. If there were no reports of a bolide in the region, then the meteorite theory becomes even more improbable. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/13/11, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Bill, I have a feeling that since you stated the man said it bounced off his roof, but you didn't say if he actually saw it hit his roof and bounce off or if he heard it hit and found it on the ground or if he just came out in the yard and found it laying there makes me think that either some neighborhood kid threw it on the roof or perhaps he threw it himself and is just telling you it bounced as part of his Big Story so that it sounds more legitimate that he really has a meteorite. As far as anyone knows he could have gone up on a ladder and dropped it onto the roof. The visions of fame and fortune and being on TV or in the paper seem to be making everyone find a meteorite in their yard these days. Even if it is a meteorite, which would be wonderful for him and I'd be very happy for him, there seem to be more and more stories of people finding meteorites in their own yard and none in the neighbors yard or surrounding area. This makes me think that some people are finding meteorites on someone else's private property or public property or BLM land, etc. and bringing them home and sticking them down in the dirt like they were hiding Easter eggs and claiming they have an amazing new meteorite that they just happened to have found after getting meteorite fever. I hope you can help him get it tested and that it is a meteorite, but I wouldn't hold my breathe on this one. One good thing you made the effort Bill to help him and took the time to drive over there and check it out. It's kind of your good deed of the day that you did for mankind. All the best. Brian --- Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:52:59 -0500 From: bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: snt102-w462247d4adcb6adad5ad24a2...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
All three images might be a lunar but in no way Zagami-- a dun colored rock. Elton - Original Message From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 3:12:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
Hello Graham, Not a chassignite, but you're close...ish. The DaG 400: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Lunar+meteoritesmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=17042 The Zagami: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Lunar+meteoritesmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=0pnt=Normal%20tablecode=7063 I'm sorry there aren't any good photos of slices there, but I know the stone well. The Nakhla looks to be from this set of pairings: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/dhofar0489.htm But since they look so similar, it would be very hard to tell the exact number from whence it came. I haven't looked through the rest of the catalog, but from what I just saw, it looks like they've botched things up royally. Thomas Heitkamp must be quite the specialist; I wish someone would pay me for nothing more than (not) knowing about things. Regards, Jason On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 2:27 AM, e-mail ensoramanda ensorama...@ntlworld.com wrote: I agree Shawn...The first two do look lunar though...but not the ones they say...and the last looks like the NWA Chassignite 2737!!! I just looked through some others and I think several other of the lunar slices are mixed up too. They need to be told I think before they get circulated under the wrong names or folks end up getting something different from the photos when they bidnot good. Perhaps someone on this list is auctioning them through Bonhams? Graham, UK On 13 April 2011 08:12, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Trading Nininger Books
Offering Nininger books in exchange for meteorite samples. Three Nininger books, as follows: 1) OUR STONE-PELTED PLANET, 1933 first edition 2) Out Of The SKY an introduction to meteoritics, 1952, Dover Book 3) FIND A FALLING STAR, 1972 first edition In exchange for meteorite samples, to wit: 1 to 2 gram sample weight size pieces best. Make email offer. Thank you, Dave Gunning davidgunn...@fairpoint.net __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Check with the local teenagers, think trebuchet. Dan - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question Hi Stuart and Bill, I tend to agree with Stuart on this one. Although, the damage done would depend on several factors, including the angle and speed of the descent. The type of roof would make a difference also. The roof of an industrial or hardened structure might resist penetration, but I think a typical residential or commercial roof would be penetrated to great effect by an 8-pound meteorite. However unlikely, it could have fallen from the wheel well of an airplane. It could have also been thrown by a large wood chipper operating a block away. Also, one cannot discount the power of drunken hooligans who like to cause damage for no logical reason. With meteorite hammer falls being so rare, there are a multitude of possible explanations that are more likely, even though some scenarios might seem far-fetched. Strange things happen. If there were no reports of a bolide in the region, then the meteorite theory becomes even more improbable. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/13/11, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
Hello Listers I found the Zagami slice. http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3182/ Its a Lunar NWA 4472 and I think I located the Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3187/ Its a Lunar NWA 3160 oops... I think they are all mixed up I hope thats just on the image side and not with the meteorites they are auctioning off. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.Shawn Alan photophlow at yahoo.com Wed Apr 13 03:12:59 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Life Survives in a Meteorite 12APR1961 50 years Ago Next message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html Previous message: [meteorite-list] Life Survives in a Meteorite 12APR1961 50 years Ago Next message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
Or a water balloon launcher... Michael in so. Cal. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Dan Wray daniel_w...@comcast.net wrote: Check with the local teenagers, think trebuchet. Dan - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question Hi Stuart and Bill, I tend to agree with Stuart on this one. Although, the damage done would depend on several factors, including the angle and speed of the descent. The type of roof would make a difference also. The roof of an industrial or hardened structure might resist penetration, but I think a typical residential or commercial roof would be penetrated to great effect by an 8-pound meteorite. However unlikely, it could have fallen from the wheel well of an airplane. It could have also been thrown by a large wood chipper operating a block away. Also, one cannot discount the power of drunken hooligans who like to cause damage for no logical reason. With meteorite hammer falls being so rare, there are a multitude of possible explanations that are more likely, even though some scenarios might seem far-fetched. Strange things happen. If there were no reports of a bolide in the region, then the meteorite theory becomes even more improbable. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/13/11, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
This sort of thing happens in this country during winter. Some areas of Canada are poorly mapped and very often the GPS data in the unit is already outdated. For instance many stores here in Victoria (BC) have closed, moved etc, new roads have been open for a couple of years and yet the updated GPS mapping data uploaded from the provider still isn't updated. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Death by GPS in desert
This sort of thing happens in this country during winter. Some areas of Canada are poorly mapped and very often the GPS data in the unit is already outdated. For instance many stores here in Victoria (BC) have closed, moved etc, new roads have been open for a couple of years and yet the updated GPS mapping data uploaded from the provider still isn't updated. My wife and I use the SPOT system that seems to work great everywhere we used it. She is a serious backpacker and I keep tabs where she's at when she sends a well being signal wherever she's at. The only places she seems to have trouble getting a signal out is if she's in a deep canyon. I've tested a few times its accuracy to within about 20 feet of where she's at. Its reassuring to get her signals on my computer that also sends one of three pre-made messages...such as: Hi I'm doing fine and am having fun.. Or 'I'm in a serious situation and need to be rescued. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Death by GPS
Dear List, Anything under 100 degrees Fahrenheit is considered chilly in this part of the world: http://themeteoritesite.com/WeatherReport.jpg A temperature gauge in the shade last summer: http://themeteoritesite.com/130Degrees.jpg I have seen tourist buses traveling through here in the summer on their way to Las Vegas from the Grand Canyon. You should see their faces when they are blasted with 125 plus degree hot air when exiting the air-conditioned buses. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
That is a heckuva good question, John. I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. Paul Swartz I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
..As if teenagers nowadays would have the knowledge and skill to design and construct a piece of machinery that could launch a stone of that size any great distance. We're talkin' 2011 here - Nintendo Wii, computer games, Twitter, and Myspace. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Dan Wray daniel_w...@comcast.net Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:57:14 To: Michael Gilmermeteoritem...@gmail.com; actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question Check with the local teenagers, think trebuchet. Dan - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question Hi Stuart and Bill, I tend to agree with Stuart on this one. Although, the damage done would depend on several factors, including the angle and speed of the descent. The type of roof would make a difference also. The roof of an industrial or hardened structure might resist penetration, but I think a typical residential or commercial roof would be penetrated to great effect by an 8-pound meteorite. However unlikely, it could have fallen from the wheel well of an airplane. It could have also been thrown by a large wood chipper operating a block away. Also, one cannot discount the power of drunken hooligans who like to cause damage for no logical reason. With meteorite hammer falls being so rare, there are a multitude of possible explanations that are more likely, even though some scenarios might seem far-fetched. Strange things happen. If there were no reports of a bolide in the region, then the meteorite theory becomes even more improbable. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/13/11, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover's 'Gagarin' Moment Applauded Exploration
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-114 Mars Rover's 'Gagarin' Moment Applauded Exploration Jet Propulsion Laboratory April 11, 2011 A flat, light-toned rock on Mars visited by NASA's Mars Exploration Rover in 2005 informally bears the name of the first human in space, Yuri Gagarin, who rode into orbit in the Soviet Union's Vostok-1 spacecraft on April 12, 1961. The team using Opportunity to explore the Meridiani Planum region of Mars since 2004 chose Gagarin for what they would call the rock that the rover examined beside Vostok crater. A target for close-up examination on Gagarin is called Yuri. To commemorate Gagarin's flight, a color image of the rock on Mars has been posted at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA13984. The image combines frames taken through three different filters by Opportunity's panoramic camera. Early accomplishments in the Space Age inspired many of the researchers exploring other planets robotically today, who hope their work can, in turn, help inspire the next generation. The 50th anniversary of mankind's first fledgling foray into the cosmos should serve as an important reminder of the spirit of adventure and exploration that has propelled mankind throughout history, said Mars rover science team member James Rice of NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. We are a species of explorers; it is encoded into our very DNA. Rice continued, Half a century ago Yuri Gagarin was lofted into a totally unknown, remote and hostile environment and in doing so opened up a new limitless frontier of possibilities for mankind. A mere 23 days later another brave human, Alan Shepard, climbed aboard a rocket and ventured into the starry abyss. Their courage and vision continue to inspire and lead us into the unknown. Hopefully, one day in the not too distant future it will lead humanity on a voyage to Mars. Opportunity and its twin, Spirit, completed their three-month prime missions on Mars in April 2004. Both rovers continued in years of bonus, extended missions. Both have made important discoveries about wet environments on ancient Mars that may have been favorable for supporting microbial life. Spirit has not communicated with Earth since March 2010. Opportunity remains active. This month, it has passed both the 27-kilometer and 17-mile marks in its total driving distance on Mars. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover Project for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. For more information about the rovers, see http://www.nasa.gov/rovers. Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov 2011-114 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 hammer stone -NO RESERVE!
I have the 7.00 g partly crusted CO3.6 'Moss' carbonaceous meteorite fall from 2006 in Norway on a 3 day -listing, ending on Saturday. As fresh as a meteorite ever gets... NO RESERVE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160573150078 Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (Allende Meteorite)
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/allende-analysis-0408.html Cold asteroids may have a soft heart Partially molten small bodies may be abundant in space, and may have given the Earth its oceans. David L. Chandler, MIT News Office April 8, 2011 A new analysis of one of the most well-known meteorites on Earth provides strong evidence that the prevailing view of many asteroids is wrong. Rather than randomly mixed blobs of rock and dust stuck together, it appears that the asteroid that was the source of the Allende meteorite was large enough to have had a molten core, even though its surface remained cold and solid. The new view also suggests that astronomers' view of how planets like the Earth formed may need revision. The Allende meteorite fell in Mexico in 1969, shattering into thousands of fragments as it slammed into the Earth's atmosphere and strewing them across dozens of miles of desert. More than two tons of scattered pieces have been found, and it has become perhaps the best-studied meteorite ever. When the solar system formed, planets built up through the slow accumulation of smaller objects that collided and stuck together. When these growing collections of rubble reached a certain size, radioactive elements within them heated up enough so that the rock melted, and heavier elements tended to sink toward their cores. This separating process (known as differentiation) ended up producing concentric layers of different composition, structured like the layers of an onion. In the metallic cores at the centers of these bodies, swirling eddies of molten metal would produce a magnetic field. Planetary scientists have long thought that asteroids that formed cores must have completely differentiated and melted throughout their interiors. Now, new findings by planetary scientists at MIT and other institutions suggest that may not be the case: that many asteroids with cores might be only partially differentiated, with their outer regions largely unmelted. It's a new paradigm for how people imagine the parent bodies of meteorites, says Benjamin Weiss, associate professor of planetary sciences and paleomagnetism in MIT's Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences (EAPS). The shift in thinking comes from a combination of laboratory work and theoretical modeling. The lab studies, led by former MIT postdoctoral scholar Laurent Carporzen, found evidence for magnetization, apparently built up over a period of millions of years, in a piece of the Allende meteorite. A separate theoretical analysis, led by Linda Elkins-Tanton, the Mitsui Career Development Associate Professor of Geology in EAPS, showed exactly how such magnetization could have occurred - and why that changes not just our view of asteroids, but also of how all the planets formed and where the water that fills Earth's oceans came from. The two lines of evidence were published this month in a two related papers, one appearing in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/03/28/1017165108, the other in /Earth and Planetary Science Letters/ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6V61-52G1S1V-5_user=501045_coverDate=03%2F25%2F2011_rdoc=24_fmt=high_orig=browse_origin=browse_zone=rslt_list_item_srch=doc-info%28%23toc%235801%23%239%239%23FLA%23display%23Articles%29_cdi=5801_sort=d_docanchor=_ct=33_acct=C22659_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=501045md5=f9bfa3ef56a2950bf51ff0cded4ed6dfsearchtype=a. Weiss is a co-author of both papers. The Allende meteorite is a type called a carbonaceous chondrite. Chondrites are conglomerates of tiny pieces (called chondrules and inclusions) stuck together, and the individual pieces are thought to be remnants of the primordial cloud of material that originally collapsed to form the solar system. Many of these are the oldest solar system solids we know of, Weiss says. The new analysis shows that while newly formed asteroids melted from the inside out because of their radioactive elements, their surfaces, exposed to the cold of space and continuing to accumulate layers of new, cold fragments, remained cold. Computer modeling of the cooling process by Elkins-Tanton clearly shows this disparity of a molten interior and cold, unmelted crust, she says. The decisive new evidence came from studies of the way mineral grains within the meteorite are magnetized: the magnetic orientations of all the grains line up, showing that they became magnetized after the material had all become stuck together, rather than being a remnant of earlier magnetic fields in the swirling cloud of dust from which the object formed. In addition, using a form of radiometric dating involving isotopes of xenon, they could determine that the magnetization took place over a period of millions of years. That rules out an alternative theory that the grains could have become magnetized as a result of a brief pulse of magnetism in the cloud of dust
[meteorite-list] Orbiting Dust Storm Could Remove Space Junk
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26634/?p1=Blogs Orbiting Dust Storm Could Remove Space Junk Technology Review (MIT) April 12, 2011 The US Naval Research Laboratory is proposing to encircle the Earth with tungsten dust in an attempt to bring down dangerous space junk Space junk is a serious problem, particularly in some orbits where debris is increasing at alarming rates. While there are some 900 active satellites orbiting the Earth, there are 19,000 bits of junk larger than 10 cm across. This stuff is big enough to be tracked and catalogued on the ground so that operational satellites can move away if it becomes a threat. But it's the smaller stuff that represents a more insidious threat since it cannot be seen and therefore can't be avoided. Most experts agree that there's at least an order of magnitude more of this small stuff than large bits up there. So what to do? Various organisations have suggested ways of minimising junk, such as reducing the amount of deliberately jettisoned junk such as lens caps, and by deorbiting defunct satellites or moving them into safe orbits using space tugs. But these measures will only help reduce the amount of big junk. The smaller stuff is much harder to clean up. There is a natural process that can help. Below 900km, the Earth's atmosphere generates a small but significant amount drag, which deorbits small junk in 25 years or less. So here the orbits are naturally flushed clean. But above 900km, the life time of junk stretches into centuries. Today, Gurudas Ganguli at the US Naval Research Laboratory and a few pals describe a novel way of getting it down. Their idea is to increase the drag on the stuff above 900 km so that their orbits decay more rapidly. That sounds perfectly sensible but their method is likely to be controversial. Their scheme is to release some 20 tons of tungsten dust at an altitude of 1100km, creating a thin shell of particles that will entirely envelop the Earth. These tungsten particles will be just 30 micrometres across but still capable of packing a punch, tungsten being 1.7 times denser than lead. Ganguli and co say that the dust's interaction with the atmosphere will cause its orbit to decay slowly. But within 10 years or so, it should drop below the critical 900 km level. After that, it will deorbit more quickly. However, the crucial point is that the tungsten particles will naturally collide with any debris it encounters, taking this junk with it. The dust and the debris will then burn up in the Earth's atmosphere over the next 25 years or so. So over period of 35 years, the orbits up to 1100km will be scrubbed clean. Ganguli and co call it a dust snow plow. There's an obvious question here: what of larger objects that get caught up in the dust storm, operational satellites, for example? Ganguli and co say the risk is manageable. First, these satellites could be designed to move above the cloud. But even if they don't move, Gangulia and co claim these spacecraft will not be significantly damaged by the dust. Dust grains of the size proposed by NRL will certainly not penetrate thermal blankets, spacecraft structure, or sensor baffles, they say. They add that more sensitive equipment, such as the optics of Earth observing sensors or space telescopes, usually point straight up or straight down and so should be protected from dust flying in from the side. One concern is solar panels which are likely to be sand blasted by the cloud. But Ganguli and co say that panels for the next generation of spacecraft could be strengthened to cope with this kind of problem. There's also the question of the tungsten cloud's dynamics. Ganguli and co imagine it forming a shell about 30 km thick. This shell would then deorbit steadily. But there's another possible scenario: that the tungsten band simply widens to form a cloud several hundred kilometres thick! The NRL will need to do more work on this problem. Then there is one group of people whose concerns Ganguli and co fail to address entirely in this paper: astronomers. While a cloud of tungsten particles would have little affect at visible frequencies, astronomers will want to know what kind of effect this cloud will have at other wavelengths. Is it possible that a cloud of metal particles encircling the Earth could significantly degrade our view of the Universe at certain frequencies, perhaps even acting like a giant spherical mirror? More work is needed here too. But before dismissing the proposal out of hand, the alternative has to considered. In 2007, the destruction of a defunct communications satellite at 900km by a Chinese anti-satellite weapon created, in an instant, 2400 pieces of large debris and countless smaller ones. The collision between the Iridium 33 and Kosmos 2251 satellite in 2009 created a similar amount of debris. It's likely that we'll see more events of this kind in future and the possibility of a catastrophic cascade of collisions from the
[meteorite-list] [AD] Some lovely aesthetic and rare specimens!
Evening all, As I continue to try to whittle down my collection to make way for new historics, I've listed some of my nicer specimens for sale on eBay. A beautiful NWA 801 CR2 with great metal halos. The impossibly rare Mulga South from Western Australia. Some very attractive low-petrologic class NWAs, the rare Zacatecas (1969), and a 7.9g end cut of NWA 2918 - the ONLY non-Antarctice CO3.0 other than Colony! Ysleta and Guanaco irons, NWA 4558 with a HUGE chondrule/inclusion, and an end cut of Dhofar 1290 which has everything! Many others! Some with fixed starting prices, many starting at £0.99. Please have a look! http://shop.ebay.co.uk/duineuk/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p3686 Mark Web: http://historicfalls.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 hammer stone -NO RESERVE!
I have the 7.00 g partly crusted CO3.6 'Moss' carbonaceous meteorite fall from 2006 in Norway on a 3 day -listing, ending on Saturday. As fresh as a meteorite ever gets... NO RESERVE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=160573150078 Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
I have contacted Bonhams and they will be sorting the planetaries out. valpar...@aol.com wrote: That is a heckuva good question, John. I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. Paul Swartz I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- Sent from my mobile phone. Please excuse my brevity and any typos. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question
That was what I was thinking or a big sling shot or maybe even a tater-gun/cannon. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 Dan Wray daniel_w...@comcast.net wrote: = Check with the local teenagers, think trebuchet. Dan - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hypothetical launch question Hi Stuart and Bill, I tend to agree with Stuart on this one. Although, the damage done would depend on several factors, including the angle and speed of the descent. The type of roof would make a difference also. The roof of an industrial or hardened structure might resist penetration, but I think a typical residential or commercial roof would be penetrated to great effect by an 8-pound meteorite. However unlikely, it could have fallen from the wheel well of an airplane. It could have also been thrown by a large wood chipper operating a block away. Also, one cannot discount the power of drunken hooligans who like to cause damage for no logical reason. With meteorite hammer falls being so rare, there are a multitude of possible explanations that are more likely, even though some scenarios might seem far-fetched. Strange things happen. If there were no reports of a bolide in the region, then the meteorite theory becomes even more improbable. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/13/11, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: Sounds fishy to me. Lorton was way less then that and it went THROUGH the roof. I don't believe there is ANY way an 8lb rock at terminal velocity wouldn't go through a roof. -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 bill kies parkforest...@hotmail.com wrote: = I had an interesting call from a gentleman in Lombard Illinois. He has an 8 pound rock that bounced off his roof. After careful examination, I explained that it was probably not a meteorite but that it wasn't my place to discount the possibility entirely. I suggested he have a piece sliced and polished since he was so determined to know for sure. The question of how this rock got there is still kind of interesting. It did quite a bit of damage to his roof and ceiling but it didn't penetrate the old roof. I suggested, to muted ears, that a beast that size would have easily crashed through had it been falling at terminal velocity. There are three railroad lines near his home. Can anyone imagine how an ore car might launch an eight pound rock 5 blocks? Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC.
Most of the lots have now been changed but still one does not seem right..eg A partial slice of the lunar NWA 2727 chassignite meteorite. http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/WService=wslive_pub/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=usascreen=LotDetailsiSaleItemNo=4984589iSaleNo=19371iSaleSectionNo=3sServer=http://images2.bonhams.com/sPath=2011-04/13/8295255-7-2.jpg Didn't know there were lunar chassignites!!! Think it should be 2737 and read Martian. Graham On 13 April 2011 08:22, MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com wrote: All three images might be a lunar but in no way Zagami-- a dun colored rock. Elton - Original Message From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 3:12:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Zagami LOT in question and others May 17th 2011 NYC. Hello Listers In NYC on May 17th 2011 Bohams is having a Natural History auction and there are some nice meteorites up for auction. However, I was viewing the LOTS and I noticed that a 5.6g Zagami slice does not look like a Zagami from what I have seen and what I have owned. Here is a link to that lot http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3168/ take a look and see if you agree with me or not. Also, I noticed other LOTS where the images do not match up with what they are auctioning off. Nakhla http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3172/ Here is a Nakhla image from the Smithsonian http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=1001071 Dar al Gani 400 http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19371/lot/3177/ The matrix is darker then what I have seen. From what I can tell, it should be a neutral gray and white clasts. Now I am not sure if I am correct or incorrect but I am wondering if they have mixed up the images of the LOTS or I am blind. But at any rate, take a look and see what I mean by some of the LOTS. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
Seems they have been working on it...they have also added that they are fro a Canadian collector. Graham On 13 April 2011 20:21, Rob Wesel - Mobile Device nakhla...@comcast.net wrote: I have contacted Bonhams and they will be sorting the planetaries out. valpar...@aol.com wrote: That is a heckuva good question, John. I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. Paul Swartz I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- Sent from my mobile phone. Please excuse my brevity and any typos. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - April 13, 2011
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES April 13, 2011 o Hydrated Minerals North of Hellas Basin http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_021705_1510 This HiRISE image has considerable diversity in color suggesting a range of surface compositions. o More Emmentaler http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_021725_0930 This terrain is called jokingly, Swiss Cheese because the structure looks a little like Emmentaler cheese -- a cheese from near the Emme Valley in the Swiss canton of Berne. o Opportunity's Goal: Northwest Endeavour Crater Rim http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_021892_1775 CRISM spectral information indicates a number of different hydrated sulfates in the whitish material beneath the sand and phyllosilicates, or water bearing clay minerals, in the reddish rim. All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Email address meteorite.fr
Hello out there , - please could anyone provide me with a valid email-address of Bruno Carine Fectay of meteorite.fr? Thanks in advance, best regards, Matthias __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6039 (20110413) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (AllendeMeteorite)
Ron and List, This new evidence fits exactly into the recent question I posted, 'Vesta, for sure?' I only heard back from Elton (thanks, sincerely!) and yet now with this hypothesis, my question lingers as to the absolute recognition of parent bodies, with my query as to the yet-undiscovered potential pairings of undiscovered asteroids. MEM pointed out that the largest asteroids (aka Vesta et al) have already been located, with tell-tale impact and reflective signatures that rule out other parents for our HEDs. My new question, neophyte layman as I am, is: Does this new data/theory bring my initial question about Vesta-for-sure-as-parent-for-HEDs back into play? -Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 11:55 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (AllendeMeteorite) http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/allende-analysis-0408.html Cold asteroids may have a soft heart Partially molten small bodies may be abundant in space, and may have given the Earth its oceans. David L. Chandler, MIT News Office April 8, 2011 A new analysis of one of the most well-known meteorites on Earth provides strong evidence that the prevailing view of many asteroids is wrong. Rather than randomly mixed blobs of rock and dust stuck together, it appears that the asteroid that was the source of the Allende meteorite was large enough to have had a molten core, even though its surface remained cold and solid. The new view also suggests that astronomers' view of how planets like the Earth formed may need revision. The Allende meteorite fell in Mexico in 1969, shattering into thousands of fragments as it slammed into the Earth's atmosphere and strewing them across dozens of miles of desert. More than two tons of scattered pieces have been found, and it has become perhaps the best-studied meteorite ever. When the solar system formed, planets built up through the slow accumulation of smaller objects that collided and stuck together. When these growing collections of rubble reached a certain size, radioactive elements within them heated up enough so that the rock melted, and heavier elements tended to sink toward their cores. This separating process (known as differentiation) ended up producing concentric layers of different composition, structured like the layers of an onion. In the metallic cores at the centers of these bodies, swirling eddies of molten metal would produce a magnetic field. Planetary scientists have long thought that asteroids that formed cores must have completely differentiated and melted throughout their interiors. Now, new findings by planetary scientists at MIT and other institutions suggest that may not be the case: that many asteroids with cores might be only partially differentiated, with their outer regions largely unmelted. It's a new paradigm for how people imagine the parent bodies of meteorites, says Benjamin Weiss, associate professor of planetary sciences and paleomagnetism in MIT's Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences (EAPS). The shift in thinking comes from a combination of laboratory work and theoretical modeling. The lab studies, led by former MIT postdoctoral scholar Laurent Carporzen, found evidence for magnetization, apparently built up over a period of millions of years, in a piece of the Allende meteorite. A separate theoretical analysis, led by Linda Elkins-Tanton, the Mitsui Career Development Associate Professor of Geology in EAPS, showed exactly how such magnetization could have occurred - and why that changes not just our view of asteroids, but also of how all the planets formed and where the water that fills Earth's oceans came from. The two lines of evidence were published this month in a two related papers, one appearing in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/03/28/1017165108, the other in /Earth and Planetary Science Letters/ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL_udi=B6V61-52G1S1V-5_user=501045_coverDate=03%2F25%2F2011_rdoc=24_fmt=high_orig=browse_origin=browse_zone=rslt_list_item_srch=doc-info%28%23toc%235801%23%239%239%23FLA%23display%23Articles%29_cdi=5801_sort=d_docanchor=_ct=33_acct=C22659_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=501045md5=f9bfa3ef56a2950bf51ff0cded4ed6dfsearchtype=a. Weiss is a co-author of both papers. The Allende meteorite is a type called a carbonaceous chondrite. Chondrites are conglomerates of tiny pieces (called chondrules and inclusions) stuck together, and the individual pieces are thought to be remnants of the primordial cloud of material that originally collapsed to form the solar system. Many of these are the oldest solar system solids we know of, Weiss says. The new analysis shows that while newly formed asteroids melted from the inside out
[meteorite-list] For your enjoyment
Listers Feast your eyes on a 2.57 gram Nakhla, crusted from the British Museum. Courtesy by The Count http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799@N03/5617680275/ Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
Hi List, Thought I'd chime in on this subject since I'm in the auction industry. Privacy (and anonymity) is one of the principles of the auction industry. The consignor or direct previous owner is kept private unless they wish to be recognized, at which point it is up to a department's director whether or not to include them in the description of an item. Well recognized provenance, such as from The British Museum, or Nininger, would normally be shown in the description while the direct previous owner or consignor will not be unless it is agreed upon. Of course a potential buyer can certainly ask to be put in contact with the previous owner, but it's up to the consignor whether or not they want to respond. Also, a bill of sale from an auction house is usually really good for authenticity and provenance since auction houses are supposed to guarentee the titles of items. -Yinan On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM, valpar...@aol.com wrote: That is a heckuva good question, John. I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. Paul Swartz I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WTB: Nice Individual Gibeon
Hello, I am interested in purchasing a nice gibeon meteorite (not for cutting) in the 2-8kg range. Please contact me off-list with pictures/prices. Thanks, -Bill __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (AllendeMeteorite)
Let me play politician and ask to revise and extend my remarks. There are asteroid gurus on the list who are more likely able to address this and I'd like to hear from them. Your theory/question is partially in the right direction so let me re-frame it. I believe we have likely detected all the existent asteroids in our inner solar system which are large enough to have formed basalt/cores--aka differentiated. That size is hard overlook(100-300km minimum?). I read somewhere that as many as 12-20 major/minor planets would have formed in the early solar system that are no longer with us as major/minor intact bodies.( i.e. absorbed or ejected) As to meteorite parent bodies, what we have yet to inventory and, for which we have not had a specimen drop by Earth for comparison, are these long ago disrupted bodies. These bodies which now are represented only by minor, irregular, slivers, slices, and rubble piles within certain swarms of asteroids in different sectors of the solar system. There is a diogenite-like spectrum coming from an outer-belt asteroid whose orbit proves it cannot be related to Vesta. I mentioned the caveat that there may be some remnants of asteroids which were differentiated in the early solar system and for whatever reason are no longer in tact. We may only have a fraction of the original large body such that while we have located all the differentiated intact ergo larger asteroids, we may need to be looking for shards of former bodies to match meteorites from our collections. The reason all our HEDs are from Vesta is probably that Vesta is on our mail route and quantum transport from Vesta to Earth is a favorable happenstance. 1459 Magnya: Orbits in the outer main belt, too far from Vesta to be genetically related. May be the remains of a different ancient differentiated body that was shattered long ago. Spectrum is diogenite-like Another candidate which may be the source of olivine-diogenites but is a chunk off Vesta: 2579 Spartacus — contains a significant portion of olivine, which may indicate origin deeper within Vesta than other V-types. See list at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-type_asteroid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Vesta Pallas and its family of asteroids is certainly a candidate for one of the Carbonaceous parent body, even thought it shows no major excavations. 2 Pallas is a large and most certainly differentiated body but lacks evidence of a deep excavation and its spectrum shows carbonaceous chondrite affinities. However 75% of the astrtoids out there whose spectra we've measured fall in the C or Carbonaceous class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Pallas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonaceous_chondrite Also in my reading there is good indication that the Martian moons are captured carbonaceous asteroids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Mars Asteroid types More than I can retain in my head: http://nineplanets.org/asteroids.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_spectral_types * C-type, includes more than 75% of known asteroids: extremely dark (albedo 0.03);similar to carbonaceous chondrite meteorites; approximately the same chemical composition as the Sun minus hydrogen, helium and other volatiles; * S-type, 17%: relatively bright (albedo .10-.22); metallic nickel-iron mixed with iron- and magnesium-silicates; * M-type, most of the rest: bright (albedo .10-.18); pure nickel-iron. * There are also a dozen or so other rare types. Read more about Asteroids l Asteroid facts, pictures and information by nineplanets.org * C-type, includes more than 75% of known asteroids: extremely dark (albedo 0.03); similar to carbonaceous chondrite meteorites; approximately the same chemical composition as the Sun minus hydrogen, helium and other volatiles; * S-type, 17%: relatively bright (albedo .10-.22); metallic nickel-iron mixed with iron- and magnesium-silicates; * M-type, most of the rest: bright (albedo .10-.18); pure nickel-iron. * There are also a dozen or so other rare types. Read more about Asteroids l Asteroid facts, pictures and information by nineplanets.org Meteorites and their Parent Bodies 2nd Edition. Harry Mc Sween which I think us a google book online. Elton - Original Message From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:39:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (AllendeMeteorite) Ron and List, This new evidence fits exactly into the recent question I posted, 'Vesta, for sure?' I only heard back from Elton (thanks, sincerely!) and yet now with this hypothesis, my question lingers as to the
[meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance
Yinan I would have to agree the bill of sale from a world renowned auction house says it all. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html Bonhams and provenance Yinan Wang veomega at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 23:37:14 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 hammer stone -NO RESERVE! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi List, Thought I'd chime in on this subject since I'm in the auction industry. Privacy (and anonymity) is one of the principles of the auction industry. The consignor or direct previous owner is kept private unless they wish to be recognized, at which point it is up to a department's director whether or not to include them in the description of an item. Well recognized provenance, such as from The British Museum, or Nininger, would normally be shown in the description while the direct previous owner or consignor will not be unless it is agreed upon. Of course a potential buyer can certainly ask to be put in contact with the previous owner, but it's up to the consignor whether or not they want to respond. Also, a bill of sale from an auction house is usually really good for authenticity and provenance since auction houses are supposed to guarentee the titles of items. -Yinan On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM, valparint at aol.com wrote: That is a heckuva good question, John. I've contacted Bonhams about provenance on lots I've won and was told by the head guy that they do not release information about the consignor, but they would send an email on my behalf. So far, no consignor has responded. Sometimes Bonhams will state the name of the collection from which an item came and I've tried direct contact based on that info, to no avail. I am currently negotating the sale of a piece and the potential buyer is insistant on documentation, which I have been unable to get. Very frustrating, especially from an auction house. One would think they would live or die on provenance, especially for items that cost a bunch. Paul Swartz I have a question about the exceedingly rare meteorites in question. Why does Bonhams devalue these meteorites by stripping them of their provenance and chain of ownership history? Why are they being sold without the supporting information of where they originated from? It does not seem to be in the best interest of the buyer Best Regards, John Higgins __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Previous message: [meteorite-list] Bonhams and provenance Next message: [meteorite-list] AD - 7.00 g 'Moss' CO3 fall -World's no.1 hammer stone -NO RESERVE! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 14, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_14_2011.html - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart (AllendeMeteorite)
[My original post from my yahoo address got bounced as spam, so I'll try it from here.] Elton, I am no expert in asteroid families, but possibly I can give a general answer and cite a paper that may be of interest while we wait for a real expert like Larry to respond. A paper that I believe should be available to all online is: Impact origin of the Vesta family by Erik Asphaug, published in Meteoritics Planetary Science 32,965-980 (1997) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10./j.1945-5100.1997.tb01584.x/pdf I'm a bit busy validating NEO candidates at the moment so can't take the time to read the entire paper, but in a nutshell Ashpaug discusses a mechanism that created the Vesta family of asteroids about 10 - 100 million years ago. While HEDs are almost certainly from Vesta the uncertainty about this comes from the fact that we are sensing the surface from great distance. When DAWN arrives, I'm sure the answer will become definitive and as I mentioned in a previous thread, we may even be able to pinpoint where some of our meteorites originated. Exciting stuff coming in the next few months to be sure! Most specifically to this question, that of other possible source parents, it is my belief that this is unlikely. The formation of the Vesta family was a major impact event. We certainly have not sampled spectroscopically every asteroid, and I'm sure that we have not yet found every member of the family, mostly due to size, brightness and circumstance. Small chunks of Vesta in earth crossing orbits, say 10 meters in diameter, the size that can drop tens of kilos on the earth's surface, are very difficult to detect. In fact something this size may only be detected a few days before impact, if at all. It is my personal opinion that all HEDs can be traced back to Vesta and most if not all Vesta-like V-type asteroids can be traced back to Vesta as well. More rocks coming through the pipeline, so that's all for now. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? (Was: Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart)
Richard, List, Since smaller meteoroids and asteroids are nearly undetectable in space, and we're currently searching optically with telescopes. Is it possible to detect meteoroids/asteroids with space based radar? Will radar even work in space? If so, what's the range, and how would it work? Do we have something like this? I know we have space based weather radar satellites, but what about pointing them into empty space to search for asteroids? Sorry if this is a dumb question... Just curious. Regards, Eric On 4/13/2011 10:00 PM, Richard A. Kowalski wrote: Small chunks of Vesta in earth crossing orbits, say 10 meters in diameter, the size that can drop tens of kilos on the earth's surface, are very difficult to detect. In fact something this size may only be detected a few days before impact, if at all. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar?
--- On Wed, 4/13/11, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Radar? (Was: Cold Asteroids May Have A Soft Heart) To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 10:15 PM Richard, List, Since smaller meteoroids and asteroids are nearly undetectable in space, and we're currently searching optically with telescopes. Is it possible to detect meteoroids/asteroids with space based radar? Will radar even work in space? If so, what's the range, and how would it work? Do we have something like this? I know we have space based weather radar satellites, but what about pointing them into empty space to search for asteroids? Sorry if this is a dumb question... Just curious. Regards, Eric Not a dumb question and one that I field every so often. While it could be possible to detect NEOs and other asteroids usig a space based radar system, such a system would be ungodly expensive and difficult to construct and operate. Remember that radar works by sending our the radio signal and then observing the reflected energy. The radio telescopes here on earth that observe asteroids and other planets using radar are huge (The dishes at Goldstone and Arecibo) and they require huge amounts of power to operate. The engineering alone would make the project unlikely and the power requirements make it a non-starter. Also, while we are familiar with air traffic and weather radar systems here on the surface, these are vastly less powerful than what would be required by an NEO detection system. ATC radar can be much less powerful than required to paint every target because most aircraft have a transponder installed. The transponder in effect hears the radar pulse and transmits essentially a Here I am! message in response. Asteroids of course have no such transponder, so you have to paint the asteroid and then detect the reflected signal. Finally, most radar systems have narrow beams. This Field of View is tiny on the two dishes I mentioned. The optical community frequently gets requests for continuing observations of NEOs that will be observed with radar to make sure they point the telescope precisely enough that the asteroid is in their beam. Even a handful of arcseconds off (an arcsecond is 1/3600 of a degree) and they miss the asteroid entirely. Optical telescopes can have very wide fields of view and are relative cheap to build and operate making them the obvious choice, especially in this cash strapped era. Hope this helps -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
