[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Chelyabinsk Contributed by: Mike Farmer http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff
Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Count, You said: ...Asimov was making a wild ass guess as to the 10,000 to one Oxygen/Chlorine ratio and he never presented one paper to support his hypothesis. Asimov wasn't presenting a scientific paper. He was writing a popular article in a popular magazine. There are no referencew in magazine pieces. Again, he wasn't making hypotheses; he was presenting the well-known science of the time. The cosmic abundances were being determined for forty years before this article was writteen. Here's a current table of the values: http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/chemistry/3_1/3_1_3.html and a bit clearer example at: http://old.orionsarm.com/science/Abundance_of_Elements.html Counting atoms for cosmic abundances is tricky. People have tried by counting atoms in Earth's sea water, in the crustal rocks of the Earth, by analyzing meteorite abundances, by spectroscopic analysis of the Sun and of other stars. The table in the first reference gives figures for all of these sources; water, rocks, meteorites, Sun, stars... (I don't know which one Asimov was using.) It works because our star and rocks (planets) are all made out of the same stuff and similar stars are made from almost identical stuff. The ratios may have been refined since 1957, but they haven't changed that much. And Isaac only mentions one noble gas: neon. As for Mars, I have another argument. Mars had a warm wet past. Any simple life there probably started then. So, life has had 3-4 billion years to get its act together. IF there is life on Mars, don't you think it would evolve a little bit in all that time? Do something that would get our attention? Leave visible evidence of its presence? Life expands, spreads, complicates. If there were life on Mars, wouldn't it have done SOMETHING in three billion years? I don't believe in patient little microbes that do nothing for billions of years. It says to me that there's nobody home... Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Oh man! I see lipping on a bottom right specimen. I like that one :) Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:00 AM, valpar...@aol.com wrote: Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Chelyabinsk Contributed by: Mike Farmer http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Jason Sylvia
Hello! Does anybody knows: JASON SYLVIA From LOS FELIZ California? Thanks! Franesco! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Zooamorphic Chameleon-oil on Campo- MJW#5 for sale
Hello Everyone, I met an artist a couple years back by the name of Mark Joyner, who may very well be the first artist to paint artwork on meteorites based on what he envisions in their natural shape alone. I see animals in the clouds, and this talented gent not only sees them in meteorites, but he has the skill to paint it in such detail we can all enjoy. Today I am making available from my collection, the most beautiful piece of meteorite art I have and hope that it finds a nice home where it too can be appreciated and admired. The artwork is titled MJW #5 Chameleon. It pictures a Chameleon perched on a branch with his long tongue extended as if in mid catch of some unsuspecting insect. It’s painted in oil on a 28g Campo del Cielo crystal and is done with breathtaking detail. Along with the artwork In a clear top display box, I am also including the original paintbrush he used to paint it as well as a COA provide to me by the artist. I believe I also have paperwork he sent me of its travel to be displayed in a museum local to him, so I will have to look a bit harder. I am asking $500.00 which I think that is completely fair. Pictures of the MJW artwork and other impactites below can be viewed on my Photobucket account at: http://s1286.beta.photobucket.com/user/Meteor-Rite/profile/ Additionally, yesterday I was told by several people that the links to some of my newly recovered and cut impactites weren’t working, but using the link above will take you there as well. There have been some notable adjustments and additions as well as todays $100 sale for spectacular Glover Bluff slices which hands down will trump anything you have ever seen. I have a 536.8g, 381.4g, and a sister pair of slices 224.1g/157g. Any size and $100 takes it home. Early bird gets the largest slices!! Let me know if you have any issues or would like additional photos. Forwarded from yesterday: Kentland IMB: The matrix shows a great diversity of breccia representing several various levels of metamorphism… it really is a feast for the eyes. I have two slices available at the moment. 529.5g - $250 467.8g - $200 The Kentland melt/quench rock was another singleton stone and I have not come across another since finding it. I have two slices available at the moment. 391.8g - $200 196.9g - $100 Thanks! Brandon D. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] type of carbonaceous
All lovers of carbpnaceous I have a very nice interesting type of carbonaceous meteorites for sale. please contact me off list or at pyrolithos6àyahoo.fr Thanks, Abdelfattah. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] chameleon -oil on Campo--anyone see it? gimme a link please
I clicked that photobucket link but only saw 3 slices of impactite I believe--no other media present in 7 albums.Anyone any luck? thanks Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] chameleon -oil on Campo--anyone see it? gimme a link please
Hi Jim, Click on view library and there will be a pull out on the left side called view albums and it will show all my library pictures which include both the MJW chameleons and various impactites I have available at the moment. If there is a simpler way to go straight to the library albums with all the pictures, please let me know! Thanks for having a look. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will send you pictures directly. Best regards, Brandon D. On Mar 15, 2013, at 11:33 AM, jim_brady...@o2.co.uk wrote: I clicked that photobucket link but only saw 3 slices of impactite I believe--no other media present in 7 albums.Anyone any luck? thanks Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Opportunity Update: March 6-12, 2013
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Departing South Soon - sols 3241-3247, Mar. 06, 2013-Mar. 12, 2013: Opportunity is completing the in-situ (contact) investigation of the terrain on the inboard edge of Cape York on the rim of 'Endeavour Crater' before departing to the south. Flash memory issues appeared again on Sol 3244 (March 9, 2013), but were minor. Although, this time the symptoms were different from earlier incidents. The project continues to investigate this. On Sol 3246 (March 11, 2013), Opportunity approached the Kirkwood outcrop with a 30 foot (9.2 meter) drive. The rover visited this site before the start of the regional 'walkabout' and has now returned for detailed investigation of the 'newberries' seen at this location. As of Sol 3247 (March 12, 2013), the solar array energy production was 483 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.863 and a solar array dust factor of 0.598. Total odometry is 22.14 miles (35625.03 meters). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: March 11-15, 2013
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES March 11-15, 2013 o Wind Erosion (11 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6110 o Martz Crater (12 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6111 o Channels (13 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6112 o Solis Planum (14 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6113 o Crater Delta (15 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6114 All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka
Ha I am looking for a contact to the owner of the collection sold by Anne Black: http://www.impactika.com/newpage.htm I am looking for a contact to the person who bought from her Krzadka meteorite. Please contact me off list woreczko@gmail.com Best Woreczko __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka
Jan, Both persons are private collectors. The person I bought the collection from only had that one fragment of Krzadka, and no more. I told the person who bought it that you were interested, but he did not respond to that, apparently he wants to keep it. I am sorry, I do realize that this meteorite is extremely rare since the main mass was lost during WWII but that is the reality of it. Please remember they are Private Collectors. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Jan Woreczko Wadi e...@biol.uw.edu.pl To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 15, 2013 12:32 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka Ha I am looking for a contact to the owner of the collection sold by Anne Black: http://www.impactika.com/newpage.htm I am looking for a contact to the person who bought from her Krzadka meteorite. Please contact me off list woreczko@gmail.com Best Woreczko __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Hi List, Ok, let's stop mincing words about Mars. Everyone knows the Martian civilization was destroyed by the first padishah emperor over 30,000 years ago during the Butlerian Jihad. The surface was sterilized using orbital atomics from the imperial fleet. There are no traces of life left on the surface and no signs that it ever existed, as per the emperor's decree. Rumor has it, there is a sealed chamber located somewhere on the planet that contains a cenotaph and records from the period. Finding it would be like locating the proverbial needle in a haystack. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 3/15/13, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
MikeG, No, it was the Lemurians that did it. They migrated to Mars after losing an epic battle with the Atlanteans. They established a civilization there for 20,000 years. Then, in the Great Civil War, one side released a horde of omniverous self-replicating nano bots. The bots picked the planet clean. Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Hi List, Ok, let's stop mincing words about Mars. Everyone knows the Martian civilization was destroyed by the first padishah emperor over 30,000 years ago during the Butlerian Jihad. The surface was sterilized using orbital atomics from the imperial fleet. There are no traces of life left on the surface and no signs that it ever existed, as per the emperor's decree. Rumor has it, there is a sealed chamber located somewhere on the planet that contains a cenotaph and records from the period. Finding it would be like locating the proverbial needle in a haystack. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 3/15/13, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka
Ha Ok. I am the author portal of the Polish meteorites http://wiki.meteoritica.pl I am looking for information about the meteorite Krzadka. I am looking for information about the origin of the fragment. Best regards Woreczko www.woreczko.pl - Original Message - From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com To: e...@biol.uw.edu.pl; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka Jan, Both persons are private collectors. The person I bought the collection from only had that one fragment of Krzadka, and no more. I told the person who bought it that you were interested, but he did not respond to that, apparently he wants to keep it. I am sorry, I do realize that this meteorite is extremely rare since the main mass was lost during WWII but that is the reality of it. Please remember they are Private Collectors. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Jan Woreczko Wadi e...@biol.uw.edu.pl To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 15, 2013 12:32 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Old collection - Krzadka Ha I am looking for a contact to the owner of the collection sold by Anne Black: http://www.impactika.com/newpage.htm I am looking for a contact to the person who bought from her Krzadka meteorite. Please contact me off list woreczko@gmail.com Best Woreczko __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 118, Issue 40
Message: 13 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 00:00:18 -0700 From: valpar...@aol.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: CE5C83F633A64F79911C94D719FA0E6A@Seuthopolis Content-Type: text/plain Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Chelyabinsk Contributed by: Mike Farmer http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp * Hi Michael (and list) - would you happen to know when these will be available? Cheers! Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA's Webb Telescope Gets Its Wings
March 15, 2013 J.D. Harrington Headquarters, Washington 202-358-5241 j.d.harring...@nasa.gov Christina Thompson Northrop Grumman Corporation, Redondo Beach, Calif. 310-812-2375 christina.thomp...@ngc.com Jennifer Bowman ATK, Magna, Utah 435-279-3159 jennifer.bow...@atk.com RELEASE: 13-072 NASA'S WEBB TELESCOPE GETS ITS WINGS WASHINGTON -- A massive backplane that will hold the primary mirror of NASA's James Webb Space Telescope nearly motionless while it peers into space is another step closer to completion with the recent assembly of the support structure's wings. The wings enable the mirror, made of 18 pieces of beryllium, to fold up and fit inside a 16.4-foot (5-meter) fairing on a rocket, and then unfold to 21 feet in diameter after the telescope is delivered to space. All that is left to build is the support fixture that will house an integrated science instrument module, and technicians will connect the wings and the backplane's center section to the rest of the observatory. The center section was completed in April 2012. This is another milestone that helps move Webb closer to its launch date in 2018, said Geoff Yoder, NASA's James Webb Space Telescope program director, NASA Headquarters, Washington. Designed, built and set to be tested by ATK at its facilities in Magna, Utah, the wing assemblies are extremely complex, with 900 separate parts made of lightweight graphite composite materials using advanced fabrication techniques. ATK assembled the wing assemblies like a puzzle with absolute precision. ATK and teammate Northrop Grumman of Redondo Beach, Calif., completed the fabrication. We will measure the accuracy down to nanometers -- it will be an incredible engineering and manufacturing challenge, said Bob Hellekson, ATK's Webb Telescope program manager. With all the new technologies that have been developed during this program, the Webb telescope has helped advance a whole new generation of highly skilled ATK engineers, scientists and craftsmen while helping the team create a revolutionary telescope. When fully assembled, the primary mirror backplane support structure will measure about 24 feet by 21 feet and weigh more than 2,000 pounds. The backplane must be very stable, both structurally and thermally, so it does not introduce changes in the primary mirror shape, and holds the instruments in a precise position with respect to the telescope. While the telescope is operating at a range of extremely cold temperatures, from minus 406 to minus 360 degrees Fahrenheit, the backplane must not vary more than 38 nanometers (about one one-thousandth the diameter of a human hair). The thermal stability requirements for the backplane are unprecedented. Our ATK teammates demonstrated the thermal stability on test articles before building the wing assemblies with the same design, analysis, and manufacturing techniques. One of the test articles ATK built and tested is actually larger than a wing, said Charlie Atkinson, deputy Webb Optical Telescope Element manager for Northrop Grumman in Redondo Beach, Calif. The mirrors are attached to the wings, as well as the rest of the backplane support structure, so the alignment is critical. If the wings distort, then the mirror distorts, and the images formed by the telescope would be distorted. The James Webb Space Telescope is the successor to NASA's Hubble Space Telescope. It will be the most powerful space telescope ever built and observe the most distant objects in the universe, provide images of the first galaxies formed and see unexplored planets around distant stars. The Webb telescope is a joint project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Canadian Space Agency. For the news release on the completion of the center section of the backplane, visit: http://go.nasa.gov/Zuggpq For a Behind the Webb series video about the backplane, visit: http://go.nasa.gov/Zugltr For more information about the James Webb Space Telescope, visit: http://www.jwst.nasa.gov -end- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Panorama From NASA Mars Rover Shows Mount Sharp
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-097 Panorama From NASA Mars Rover Shows Mount Sharp Jet Propulsion Laboratory March 15, 2013 PASADENA, Calif. -- Rising above the present location of NASA's Mars rover Curiosity, higher than any mountain in the 48 contiguous states of the United States, Mount Sharp is featured in new imagery from the rover. A pair of mosaics assembled from dozens of telephoto images shows Mount Sharp in dramatic detail. The component images were taken by the 100-millimeter-focal-length telephoto lens camera mounted on the right side of Curiosity's remote sensing mast, during the 45th Martian day of the rover's mission on Mars (Sept. 20, 2012). This layered mound, also called Aeolis Mons, in the center of Gale Crater rises more than 3 miles (5 kilometers) above the crater floor location of Curiosity. Lower slopes of Mount Sharp remain a destination for the mission, though the rover will first spend many more weeks around a location called Yellowknife Bay, where it has found evidence of a past environment favorable for microbial life. A version of the mosaic that has been white-balanced to show the terrain as if under Earthlike lighting, which makes the sky look overly blue, is at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA16768. White-balanced versions help scientists recognize rock materials based on their terrestrial experience. The Martian sky would look like more of a butterscotch color to the human eye. A version of the mosaic with raw color, as a typical smart-phone camera would show the scene, is at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA16769. In both versions, the sky has been filled out by extrapolating color and brightness information from the portions of the sky that were captured in images of the terrain. NASA's Mars Science Laboratory project is using Curiosity and the rover's 10 science instruments to investigate environmental history within Gale Crater, a location where the project has found that conditions were long ago favorable for microbial life. Malin Space Science Systems, San Diego, built and operates the Mast Camera (Mastcam) instrument. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Science Laboratory mission for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, and built the rover. For more information about the mission, visit http://www.nasa.gov/msl and http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl. Follow the mission on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/marscuriosity and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/marscuriosity. Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov 2012-097 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sunset Comet C/2011 L4 (PANSTARRS)
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/15mar_sunsetcomet/ Sunset Comet NASA Science News March 15, 2013 For a comet, visiting the sun is risky business. Fierce solar heat vaporizes gases long frozen in the fragile nucleus, breaking up some comets and completely destroying others. That's why astronomers weren't sure what would happen in early March when Comet Pan-STARRS, a first-time visitor to the inner solar system, dipped inside the orbit of Mercury. On March 10th , NASA's STEREO-B spacecraft watched as the comet made its closest approach to the sun only 28 million miles away. At that distance, the sun loomed 3 times wider and felt more than 10 times hotter than it does on Earth. The comet survived. Still intact, Comet Pan-STARRS is emerging from the Sun's glare into the sunset skies of the northern hemisphere. Solar heating has caused the comet to glow brighter than a first magnitude star. Bright twilight sharply reduces visibility, but it is still an easy target for binoculars and small telescopes 1 and 2 hours after sunset. As of March 15th, people are beginning to report that they can see the comet with the unaided eye. Discovered in June 2011 by astronomers using the Pan-STARRS survey telescope atop the Haleakala volcano in Hawaii, the comet is paying its first visit to the inner solar system. It hails from the Oort cloud, a deep space reservoir of comets far beyond the orbit of Pluto. Because Comet PanSTARRs is a newcomer, astronomers didn't know what to expect. Now they know. It is a gorgeous comet--one of the brightest in years, says astronomer Matthew Knight of the Lowell Observatory. Comet specialist Emmanuel Jehin of the European Southern Observatory has been monitoring Pan-STARRS using a remote-controlled telescope in Chile. Based on his data, Knight concludes that Comet Pan-STARRS seems to be producing quite a bit of dust compared to an average comet. This is very good for its visibility, because the extra dust is reflecting sunlight and making Pan-STARRS appear brighter than it would otherwise. The amount of dust and gas spewing from the comet implies a nucleus on the order of 1 km in diameter--in other words, neither unusually large nor small. Size-wise, it is a fairly typical comet. The comet's tail is anything but typical. STEREO-B images processed by Karl Battams of the Naval Research Lab in Washington DC reveal many wild and ragged striations in the cloud of dust trailing behind Pan-STARRS. Wow! says Battams. The fine-structure is breathtaking. We think this is caused by some fairly complex interaction between the solar wind and the comet's rotating nucleus. We're going to need computer models to figure this one out. The comet is now receding from Earth. It will slowly dim as it heads back into deep space. Ironically, though, its visibility will improve for a while as it heads into darker skies away from the sun. In the last weeks of March it could become an easy naked-eye object. Step outside after sunset, face west, and take a look. Production editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sunset Comet C/2011 L4 (PANSTARRS)
Hi All, While the image-processed STEREO-B images of Comet Pan-STARRS are impressive, it is a bit disappointing to me that rather basic data processing techniques have not been applied to the raw data beyond what appears to be simple median background subtraction. The result is a distracting black trailing image (caused by prior images) that obscures 50% of the comet's structure. I will work on generating a proper movie of the comet that shows it in all its glory. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ron Baalke Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:51 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Sunset Comet C/2011 L4 (PANSTARRS) http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/15mar_sunsetco met/ Sunset Comet NASA Science News March 15, 2013 For a comet, visiting the sun is risky business. Fierce solar heat vaporizes gases long frozen in the fragile nucleus, breaking up some comets and completely destroying others. That's why astronomers weren't sure what would happen in early March when Comet Pan-STARRS, a first-time visitor to the inner solar system, dipped inside the orbit of Mercury. On March 10th , NASA's STEREO-B spacecraft watched as the comet made its closest approach to the sun only 28 million miles away. At that distance, the sun loomed 3 times wider and felt more than 10 times hotter than it does on Earth. The comet survived. Still intact, Comet Pan-STARRS is emerging from the Sun's glare into the sunset skies of the northern hemisphere. Solar heating has caused the comet to glow brighter than a first magnitude star. Bright twilight sharply reduces visibility, but it is still an easy target for binoculars and small telescopes 1 and 2 hours after sunset. As of March 15th, people are beginning to report that they can see the comet with the unaided eye. Discovered in June 2011 by astronomers using the Pan-STARRS survey telescope atop the Haleakala volcano in Hawaii, the comet is paying its first visit to the inner solar system. It hails from the Oort cloud, a deep space reservoir of comets far beyond the orbit of Pluto. Because Comet PanSTARRs is a newcomer, astronomers didn't know what to expect. Now they know. It is a gorgeous comet--one of the brightest in years, says astronomer Matthew Knight of the Lowell Observatory. Comet specialist Emmanuel Jehin of the European Southern Observatory has been monitoring Pan-STARRS using a remote-controlled telescope in Chile. Based on his data, Knight concludes that Comet Pan-STARRS seems to be producing quite a bit of dust compared to an average comet. This is very good for its visibility, because the extra dust is reflecting sunlight and making Pan-STARRS appear brighter than it would otherwise. The amount of dust and gas spewing from the comet implies a nucleus on the order of 1 km in diameter--in other words, neither unusually large nor small. Size-wise, it is a fairly typical comet. The comet's tail is anything but typical. STEREO-B images processed by Karl Battams of the Naval Research Lab in Washington DC reveal many wild and ragged striations in the cloud of dust trailing behind Pan-STARRS. Wow! says Battams. The fine-structure is breathtaking. We think this is caused by some fairly complex interaction between the solar wind and the comet's rotating nucleus. We're going to need computer models to figure this one out. The comet is now receding from Earth. It will slowly dim as it heads back into deep space. Ironically, though, its visibility will improve for a while as it heads into darker skies away from the sun. In the last weeks of March it could become an easy naked-eye object. Step outside after sunset, face west, and take a look. Production editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From:
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Metaphysics, Philosophy? Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was,
[meteorite-list] Moon, Mars Science Conference Events to be Streamed (LPSC)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-098 Moon, Mars Science Conference Events to be Streamed Jet Propulsion Laboratory March 15, 2013 NASA's Mars Curiosity and lunar GRAIL missions, managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., will be among those discussed during the 44th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston on March 18 to 22. Science briefings for Curiosity and GRAIL (Gravity Recovery and Interior Laboratory) will be streamed live by JPL on Ustream, as follows: --Mars Curiosity: Monday, March 18, 10 a.m. PDT (1 p.m. EDT), online at http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl. -GRAIL and NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter: Tuesday, March 19, 10 a.m. PDT (1 p.m. EDT), online at: http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl2. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. The briefings, along with others from the conference, will also be streamed by the conference organizer, the Lunar and Planetary Institute of Houston, at: http://www.livestream.com/lpsc2013. The institute is managed by the Universities Space Research Association, a national, nonprofit consortium of universities chartered at NASA's request in 1969 by the National Academy of Sciences. For news products, a complete agenda and other conference information, visit: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/. Follow the conference on Twitter and Facebook using the hashtag #lpsc2013: https://twitter.com/lpimeetings and https://www.facebook.com/LunarandPlanetaryInstitute. More information about NASA's Curiosity mission is online at: http://www.nasa.gov/msl and http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl http://www.nasa.gov/msl. More information about NASA's GRAIL mission to the moon is at: http://www.nasa.gov/grail . Follow JPL on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/nasajpl and on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/nasajpl. For information about NASA and agency programs, visit: http://www.nasa.gov. Guy Webster/Elena Mejia 818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov / elena.me...@jpl.nasa.gov 2013-098 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
I love fishing. You never know what you'll catch, but you can target pretty well. - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Metaphysics, Philosophy? Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Dear List, Mark and Phil, Phil has saidIt's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. Really! If it is becoming painfully obvious that Mars has always been lifeless, then what in the hell are we doing spending billions of taxpayer bucks to prove...and notice I said prove...that there was/is life, as we scientifically think of it, on our red neighbor. According to your premise, spending a significant amount of our own, and our partner nation's, science capital constructing and delivering Curiosity to look precisely for confirming evidence...notice I said confirming...is folly. What have you found out that apparently thousands of the world's scientists aren't aware of? The Curiosity mission is not one of discovery...it is one of confirmation... and I think it will only take a few million seconds before we know, as you put it. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Mar 15, 2013 11:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Sent: Mar 15, 2013 3:05 PM To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
And that is why we collect meteorites, 'cause they're heavy! Fred H. Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Now that's funny, Sterling. And you is always so serious :0) Guido -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Mar 15, 2013 6:12 PM To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net, Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
