[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Marjalahti Contributed by: Anne Black http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used for commercial purposes according to the BLM interpretations rendering them without commercial value. This is even before the new laws limited meteorite recoveries to 10 pounds a year or less without a commercial permit. The interesting thing is not a single commercial permit has ever been issued despite being applied for. Sorry for the bad news, That is why it so important to treat private land owners with the utmost respect in order to gain access to unrestricted search areas. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Chupaderos IIIAB iron, Arltunga IID-an iron, Csatalja hungarian chondrites on E-Bay
Dear Members! I start some rare meteorite (stunning) auctions on E-Bay: CHUPADEROS iron IIIAB, fine etched slice 7.96gr, from 1852, Mexico This iron meteorite the 10th largest individual on the World, very hard to obtain it! http://www.ebay.com/itm/221444765917?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 ARLTUNGA IID-an (just two!!! known of this type on the World) etched slices, from Australia, 1908: You can see in microscope a fine micro-octahedrite structure. 1.58 gr Arltunga: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221444797369?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 1.495 gr Arltunga: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221444797905?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 1.38 gr Arltunga: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221444786725?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 Csatalja (prov. name) H4, S2, W1 newest hungarian chondrite slices - reduced price: 7.64 gr Csatalja chondrite polished slice (grit 2500): http://www.ebay.com/itm/221442463085?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 2.79 gr Csatalja chondrite polished slice (grit 2500): http://www.ebay.com/itm/221442462398?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT_trksid=p3984 ..m1555.l2649 Good Bidding! Zsolt Kereszty IMCA#6251 PS: Every COAs has included from the former owner(s). --- A levél vírus, és rosszindulatú kód mentes, mert az avast! Antivirus védelme ellenőrizte azt. http://www.avast.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune. Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined. It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law. Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority. Adam - Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used for commercial purposes according to the BLM interpretations rendering them without commercial value. This is even before the new laws limited meteorite recoveries to 10 pounds a year or less without a commercial permit. The interesting thing is not a single commercial permit has ever been issued despite being applied for. Sorry for the bad news, That is why it so important to treat private land owners with the utmost respect in order to gain access to unrestricted search areas. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
Adam, your posts come off a bit alarmist. Please cite the laws by Title, Chapter, and Part/Section rather than just saying they turned the rules into laws. Please leave opinions and conspiracies out of it, just state fact. The BLM advisory memorandum regarding meteorites expired in September of 2013. My dealings with the BLM have all been pleasant and professional. I think I got further along the permit process than anyone else, but those guidelines do not apply any longer from what I can tell.* Michael in so. Cal. * - I'm not a lawyer On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune. Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined. It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law. Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority. Adam - Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used for commercial purposes according to the BLM interpretations rendering them without commercial value. This is even before the new laws limited meteorite recoveries to 10 pounds a year or less without a commercial permit. The interesting thing is not a single commercial permit has ever been issued despite being applied for. Sorry for the bad news, That is why it so important to treat private land owners with the utmost respect in order to gain access to unrestricted search areas. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
The UNESCO guidelines have been well discussed on this List. Richard Norton discussed them in great detail and I do not consider him an alarmist. I am speaking from personal experience however I have provided links to these laws in the archives. Please share your experiences on trying to obtain a commercial permit. This would be useful first-hand information Best Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Raremeteorites raremeteori...@centurylink.net Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Adam, your posts come off a bit alarmist. Please cite the laws by Title, Chapter, and Part/Section rather than just saying they turned the rules into laws. Please leave opinions and conspiracies out of it, just state fact. The BLM advisory memorandum regarding meteorites expired in September of 2013. My dealings with the BLM have all been pleasant and professional. I think I got further along the permit process than anyone else, but those guidelines do not apply any longer from what I can tell.* Michael in so. Cal. * - I'm not a lawyer On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune. Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined. It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law. Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority. Adam - Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used for commercial purposes according to the BLM interpretations rendering them without commercial value. This is even before the new laws limited meteorite recoveries to 10 pounds a year or less without a commercial permit. The interesting thing is not a single commercial permit has ever been issued despite being applied for. Sorry for the bad news, That is why it so important to treat private land owners with the utmost respect in order to gain access to unrestricted search areas. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
Hey Adam, Jim and List, Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go out and do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the last month in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Butte meteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked about meteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting for meteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the Las Vegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I did contact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and they informed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So far all of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has been positive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : ) Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined.It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law.Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority.Adam- Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used for commercial purposes according to the BLM interpretations rendering them without commercial value. This is even before the new laws limited meteorite recoveries to 10 pounds a year or less without a commercial permit. The interesting thing is not a single commercial permit has ever been issued despite being applied for. Sorry for the bad news, That is why it so important to treat private land owners with the utmost respect in order to gain access to unrestricted search areas. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.comMeteorite-list mailing
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there. The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes. Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them, Adam - Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.com To: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hey Adam, Jim and List, Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go out and do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the last month in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Butte meteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked about meteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting for meteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the Las Vegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I did contact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and they informed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So far all of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has been positive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : ) Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined.It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law.Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority.Adam- Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they predate 1972, meteorites found on public land cannot be used
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
In summary, I applied for a commercial permit as soon as the memorandum was issued. Over the course of 14 months my application was routed successfully through 2 or 3 district offices, I paid the application fee ($115), then it went to the State office and effectively died there. The final direction was, I have received further direction from our State Office, and the recommendation at this time is to not process any meteorite applications until we get further guidance/clarification from the BLM Washington Office. My application fee was refunded. Michael in so. Cal. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: The UNESCO guidelines have been well discussed on this List. Richard Norton discussed them in great detail and I do not consider him an alarmist. I am speaking from personal experience however I have provided links to these laws in the archives. Please share your experiences on trying to obtain a commercial permit. This would be useful first-hand information Best Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Raremeteorites raremeteori...@centurylink.net Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Adam, your posts come off a bit alarmist. Please cite the laws by Title, Chapter, and Part/Section rather than just saying they turned the rules into laws. Please leave opinions and conspiracies out of it, just state fact. The BLM advisory memorandum regarding meteorites expired in September of 2013. My dealings with the BLM have all been pleasant and professional. I think I got further along the permit process than anyone else, but those guidelines do not apply any longer from what I can tell.* Michael in so. Cal. * - I'm not a lawyer On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect cultural properties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twisted into law by government servants overstepping their authority with no debate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over 10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bells to anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position with the 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issued based on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune. Not too many people have the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to the miners that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting of seven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles California office that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBay and other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and a scientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as were other team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on this list have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters to step forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feel so inclined. It is best to search on private property with written permission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot of press about artifact hunters having their entire collections confiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds were made on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on private property for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the laws written for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even though meteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which were adopted into law. Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority. Adam - Original Message - From: Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Hi Adam and all, Just for clarification on so called BLM Rules. The BLM put out a paper a while back the stirred up a ruckus. The paper was a GUIDELINE for area supervisors to implement or not. To be clear, they are not rules. And, the BLM has failed to issues claimed permits for commercial ventures when ask. If you can show me where these guidelines have become rules and have actually been implemented, I'd like to see it. Jim On 5/20/2014 4:25 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim and All, Unless they
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???
Hi Adam! I totally get where you are coming from on this issue and trust me...we are on the same side! Soapbox ON - I've been directly involved with the NPS and BLM on patrols on Federal Waters. I can safely say I am not going to have any issues with rangers over this issue. I won't own what they think. If I do get confronted, it will not bother me much and odds are if he/she is an ass, they will go away with more of their day ruined. I am not one of the idiots they really have to worry about. And have yet talked to a Ranger or BLM supervisor that thinks these rules are reasonable or enforceable or worth their time bothering with. Sheese, just last week we had a fighter jet do a flyby, turn around and go sideways on us checking us out! The paper was a guideline. They have denied issuing permits. If we keep being sheep, they will continue to herd us! People have become way to passive in regards to these federal agencies. When someone gets arrested for selling meteorites, I hope the meteorite community finally gets off their lazy butt and fight it. 99.9% of us hunters are doing nothing illegal or wrong, we are not hurting the environment by any means and some of us do provide material to science...whether it adds to a better understanding of the cosmos or not is moot! We help provide answers, we are the boots on the ground. Beings how my interest is 99.9% hunting and research, they really do not have a leg to stand onif they push the issue, I will push right back equally. I have no problem getting arrested for my beliefs. So, my bottom line is this; Their so called rules do not intimidate me nor am I going to fear them. I am one that is sick and tire of crappy BLM rules and management if you can call what some of what they do is management (you'd have to be as dumb as a box of rocks thinking it is management (and that's what they count on)). They have, as an agency, exploited and ruined more public land because of their rules and policies than any other group of people haveever. On the other hand, I appreciate what a good ranger does and I really do not mind them checking up on us in the field. I fully understand they do have to deal with some real idiots that trash our deserts. Most of the time they are alone and can not monkey around when dealing with people they do not know. With me, odds are they will go away enlightened and with a meteorite! - Soapbox OFF We should get together sometime and hunt, and drag Guy out so he can find a meteorite! Jim Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting you have engaged in over the years that you have not been personally involved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into a reasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one looking exert their authority. Adam -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Opportunity Update: May 8-13, 2014
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Explores Region of Aluminum Clay Minerals - sols 3657-3662, May 08, 2014-May 13, 2014: Opportunity is exploring south of 'Solander Point' on the west rim of Endeavour Crater. The rover is exploring the region of aluminum-hydroxyl clay minerals seen from orbit. On Sol 3657 (May 8, 2014), Opportunity collected a Microscopic Imager (MI) mosaic of the surface outcrop, called 'Ash Meadows,' then placed the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) for a multi-sol integration. On Sol 3659 (May 10, 2014), the rover drove just under 85 feet (26 meters) to the east, approaching a region of extended outcrop as a possible site for clay minerals. Also, Opportunity tested the new two-second spacecraft clock correction sequence. Over the next two sols, the rover collected an atmospheric argon measurement with the APXS and performed two more one-second-clock corrections. On Sol 3662 (May 13, 2014), Opportunity bumped 7 feet (2 meters) forward to approach an exposed rock outcrop for further in-situ (contact) investigation. As of Sol 3662, the solar array energy production was 761 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.621, and an improved solar array dust factor of 0.964. Perfectly clean solar arrays would have a dust factor of 1.0, so the larger the dust factor, the cleaner the arrays. Total odometry is 24.49 miles (39.41 kilometers). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I didcontact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and theyinformed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So farall of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has beenpositive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : )Sonny-Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 amSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect culturalproperties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twistedinto law by government servants overstepping their authority with nodebate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bellsto anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position withthe 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issuedbased on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lyingaround like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting ofseven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles Californiaoffice that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBayand other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and ascientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as wereother team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on thislist have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters tostep forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feelso inclined.It is best to search on private property with writtenpermission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot ofpress about artifact hunters having their entire collectionsconfiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds weremade on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on privateproperty for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the lawswritten for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even thoughmeteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which wereadopted into law.Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting youhave engaged in over the years that you have not been personallyinvolved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into areasonable agent, but more than likely, you will run into one lookingexert their authority.Adam- Original Message - From: JimWooddell via Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
Hi Sonny, I thought the miners..or one of them passed? Let's go get it! Did they say how big the other pieces are? Jim On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote: Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I didcontact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and theyinformed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So farall of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has beenpositive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : )Sonny-Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 amSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect culturalproperties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twistedinto law by government servants overstepping their authority with nodebate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bellsto anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position withthe 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issuedbased on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lyingaround like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting ofseven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles Californiaoffice that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBayand other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and ascientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as wereother team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on thislist have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters tostep forward with their unsavory experiences with the BLM if they feelso inclined.It is best to search on private property with writtenpermission if want to resell your finds. There has been a lot ofpress about artifact hunters having their entire collectionsconfiscated if they did not have provenance indicating their finds weremade on private land. Even then, you are not allowed to dig on privateproperty for them. They have to be surface finds. Remember, the lawswritten for artifacts and fossils now apply to meteorites even thoughmeteorites were never mentioned in the UNESCO guidelines which wereadopted into law.Jim, I am surprised that with all of the hunting youhave engaged in over the years that you have not been personallyinvolved with the BLM in the field. Sometimes you run into
[meteorite-list] Martian Mineral Could Be Linked to Microbes (Stevensite)
http://news.anu.edu.au/2014/05/20/martian-mineral-could-be-linked-to-microbes/ Martian mineral could be linked to microbes Australian National University May 20, 2014 Scientists have discovered that the earliest living organisms on Earth were capable of making a mineral that may be found on Mars. The clay-mineral stevensite has been used since ancient times and was used by Nubian women as a beauty treatment, but scientists had believed deposits could only be formed in harsh conditions like volcanic lava and hot alkali lakes. Researchers led by Dr Bob Burne from the ANU Research School of Earth Sciences have found living microbes create an environment that allows stevensite to form, raising new questions about the stevensite found on Mars. It's much more likely that the stevensite on Mars is made geologically, from volcanic activity, Dr Burne said. But our finding - that stevensite can form around biological organisms - will encourage re-interpretation of these Martian deposits and their possible links to life on that planet. Dr Burne and his colleagues from ANU, University of Western Australia and rock imaging company Lithicon, have found microbes can become encrusted by stevensite, which protects their delicate insides and provides the rigidity to allow them to build reef-like structures called microbialites. Microbialites are the earliest large-scale evidence of life on Earth, Dr Burne said. They demonstrate how microscopic organisms are able to join together to build enormous structures that sometimes rivalled the size of today's coral reefs. He said the process still happens today in some isolated places like Shark Bay and Lake Clifton in Western Australia. Stevensite is usually assumed to require highly alkaline conditions to form, such as volcanic soda lakes. But our stevensite microbialites grow in a lake less salty than seawater and with near-neutral pH. One of the paper's authors, Dr Penny King from ANU, is a science co-investigator on NASA's Mars Curiosity rover, which uncovered the presence of possible Martian stevensite. The findings also have implications for how some of the world's largest oil reservoirs were formed. The discovery was made using ANU-developed imaging technology licensed to Lithicon. The data was run on Raijin, the most powerful supercomputer in the Southern Hemisphere, based at the National Computational Infrastructure in Canberra. The research is published in Geology. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Writeup and photos from North West Astro Fest 2013
Hi all, Just uploaded a very belated writeup and photos from our BIMS display at North West Astro Fest 2013. It can be seen at the link below: (http://msg-meteorites.co.uk/meteorite-adventures/north-west-astro-fest-2013) Please take a look and have a read :-) Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures -- i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass is on display in California for tourists to appreciate. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi Sonny, I thought the miners..or one of them passed? Let's go get it! Did they say how big the other pieces are? Jim On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote: Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I didcontact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and theyinformed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So farall of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has beenpositive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : )Sonny-Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 amSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect culturalproperties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twistedinto law by government servants overstepping their authority with nodebate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bellsto anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position withthe 10 pound limit and commercial permits which will never be issuedbased on television shows, falsely perceiving that meteorites are lyingaround like Easter Eggs and are worth a fortune.Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. Our group, consisting ofseven people, were warned by BLM agents from the Needles Californiaoffice that meteorites are not to be resold and that they monitor eBayand other outlets. Four prominent meteorite collector/dealers and ascientist were on this trip. I was personally threatened, as wereother team members, by them and will leave it at that. Others on thislist have been warned as well. I will leave it up to other hunters tostep forward with their unsavory experiences
[meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - 6 New Hot Desert Meteorites
Hi Bulletin Watchers, There are 6 new approvals from the hot deserts of Oman and Northwest Africa. There are achondrites, carbonaceous, and OC's. Link : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=%2Asfor=namesants=falls=valids=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmblist=Allrect=phot=snew=2pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=0 Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
Hi Carl! I agree it is good where it's at. I really appreciated the opportunity to touch and see the Old Woman Meteorite. The girl in the office gave me the evil eye when I tried to roll it out of the BLM building! She thought I was joking around! ;) If there truly are additional pieces of the old gal, some one ought to go get it and re-unite them. I think UCLA should be jumping all over this with a vengeance. Funds could be raised to retrieve these. Russia would do it, I bet! I volunteer to be part of the ground crew and donate money to help make it happen by a qualified organization Won't believe it until I see pictures. Hiding something like this is nuts! I am mean really. Now back to watching epoxy cure! I need to call you next week. Jim On 5/21/2014 2:20 PM, Carl Agee wrote: I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures -- i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass is on display in California for tourists to appreciate. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi Sonny, I thought the miners..or one of them passed? Let's go get it! Did they say how big the other pieces are? Jim On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote: Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting and have had no problem. I didcontact the State of Arizona about hunting on State Land and theyinformed me that meteorite hunting on state land is not allowed. So farall of my experiences with the BLM and meteorite hunting has beenpositive. I can hopefully find some more Easter Eggs this weekend! : )Sonny-Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comTo: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wed, May 21, 2014 9:08 amSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???The BLM adopted the UNESCO rules designed to protect culturalproperties and turned them into laws. These rules have been twistedinto law by government servants overstepping their authority with nodebate or intelligent input whatsoever. I talked at great length over10 years ago with the late Richard Norton which sounded the alarm bellsto anybody who would listen. The BLM strengthened their position withthe 10 pound limit and commercial permits which
Re: [meteorite-list] Mike Miller in ICU - Thoughts and Prayers Appreciated
HI Jim, and all who've asked. I talked to several people that have seen Mike today and they tell me his condition is improving - but he will remian in ICU for a while longer. When I called the hospital they couldn't tell me much. I do know that he's breathing without the aid of a ventilator and that he's talking, but not much I keep saying that's always how he is ;) Anyway, I'm coming up to see him again on Saturday so I'll have a better idea and can relay that to the meteorite community as soon I see for myself. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Ruben! Any update on Mike? Jim On 5/20/2014 8:57 AM, Ruben Garcia wrote: Thanks for posting on FB... Mike will appreciate it. Hope thinks are good with you and Wendy On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Ruben! Good news he is getting better. Thanks for posting. I've been forwarding to FaceBook as some folks can not see this. Please keep the good news coming! Hope all is well with you and your family. First think I thought of was he cut into something bad in a meteorite.you can never know. All good here, just returned from Yelland Dry Lake and Tule Valley Dry Lake in UTAH. Jim On 5/19/2014 9:29 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi all, Thanks to everyone that sent Mike an email message. In response to questions about Mikes illness: The doctors have treated Mike for pneumonia, and valley fever, but they're thinking now that the cause may be meteorite related. Mike has been cutting, sanding, etching, opticon-ing and lacquering meteorites for nearly a decade without using any type of mask. Even If not THE cause I doubt seriously it's helped the situation. Update: Just talked to Melissa (Mike's daughter) and she said Mike has responded somewhat favorably to the treatment. Just this afternoon he began breathing on his own and so they removed the ventilator. While still heavily sedated and in ICU he is trying to speak and moving enough that they thought he was trying to break the restaints placed on his arms and legs. It's looking better... Keep Praying! On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 6:42 PM, John Cabassi j...@cabassi.net wrote: Thanks Ruben for the information, please keep us informed on Mike Cheers John On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi all, I stopped by to see our friend Mike Miller today at the hospital (KRMC) in Kingman, AZ. He's completely sedated and on a breathing machine. I was told that he's been in ICU for a few days and that doctors are somewhat baffled as to what has happened. Something is causing fluid build up in his lungs that is making it impossible for him to breathe unassisted. He entered the hospital on Wednesday evening due to pains in his chest and back but within hours had to be put on a ventilator to breathe. Mikes daughters (Ashley, and Melissa) work for him and will be checking his email. If you'd like to wish Mike well I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Here is his email. meteoritefin...@gmail.com -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia http://www.MrMeteorite.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia http://www.MrMeteorite.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mike Miller in ICU - Thoughts and Prayers Appreciated
Hi Ruben, I would like to meet you up there. Call me with your plans! Jim On 5/21/2014 3:59 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote: HI Jim, and all who've asked. I talked to several people that have seen Mike today and they tell me his condition is improving - but he will remian in ICU for a while longer. When I called the hospital they couldn't tell me much. I do know that he's breathing without the aid of a ventilator and that he's talking, but not much I keep saying that's always how he is ;) Anyway, I'm coming up to see him again on Saturday so I'll have a better idea and can relay that to the meteorite community as soon I see for myself. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Ruben! Any update on Mike? Jim On 5/20/2014 8:57 AM, Ruben Garcia wrote: Thanks for posting on FB... Mike will appreciate it. Hope thinks are good with you and Wendy On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Ruben! Good news he is getting better. Thanks for posting. I've been forwarding to FaceBook as some folks can not see this. Please keep the good news coming! Hope all is well with you and your family. First think I thought of was he cut into something bad in a meteorite.you can never know. All good here, just returned from Yelland Dry Lake and Tule Valley Dry Lake in UTAH. Jim On 5/19/2014 9:29 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi all, Thanks to everyone that sent Mike an email message. In response to questions about Mikes illness: The doctors have treated Mike for pneumonia, and valley fever, but they're thinking now that the cause may be meteorite related. Mike has been cutting, sanding, etching, opticon-ing and lacquering meteorites for nearly a decade without using any type of mask. Even If not THE cause I doubt seriously it's helped the situation. Update: Just talked to Melissa (Mike's daughter) and she said Mike has responded somewhat favorably to the treatment. Just this afternoon he began breathing on his own and so they removed the ventilator. While still heavily sedated and in ICU he is trying to speak and moving enough that they thought he was trying to break the restaints placed on his arms and legs. It's looking better... Keep Praying! On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 6:42 PM, John Cabassi j...@cabassi.net wrote: Thanks Ruben for the information, please keep us informed on Mike Cheers John On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi all, I stopped by to see our friend Mike Miller today at the hospital (KRMC) in Kingman, AZ. He's completely sedated and on a breathing machine. I was told that he's been in ICU for a few days and that doctors are somewhat baffled as to what has happened. Something is causing fluid build up in his lungs that is making it impossible for him to breathe unassisted. He entered the hospital on Wednesday evening due to pains in his chest and back but within hours had to be put on a ventilator to breathe. Mikes daughters (Ashley, and Melissa) work for him and will be checking his email. If you'd like to wish Mike well I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Here is his email. meteoritefin...@gmail.com -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia http://www.MrMeteorite.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
Hi Jim, Just between you and me -- and everyone else on the internet -- I wish NASA would spend a tiny fraction of their ~$19B annual budget on the recovery, classification, curation, and data analysis on scientifically valuable meteorites originating outside of Antarctica. They spend piles of money on JPL's remote sensing probes and archiving the data from missions but somehow the non-Antarctic samples in our labs and university museums are not as special to them -- and as far as I know they are from the same solar system :) :) Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl! I agree it is good where it's at. I really appreciated the opportunity to touch and see the Old Woman Meteorite. The girl in the office gave me the evil eye when I tried to roll it out of the BLM building! She thought I was joking around! ;) If there truly are additional pieces of the old gal, some one ought to go get it and re-unite them. I think UCLA should be jumping all over this with a vengeance. Funds could be raised to retrieve these. Russia would do it, I bet! I volunteer to be part of the ground crew and donate money to help make it happen by a qualified organization Won't believe it until I see pictures. Hiding something like this is nuts! I am mean really. Now back to watching epoxy cure! I need to call you next week. Jim On 5/21/2014 2:20 PM, Carl Agee wrote: I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures -- i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass is on display in California for tourists to appreciate. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi Sonny, I thought the miners..or one of them passed? Let's go get it! Did they say how big the other pieces are? Jim On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote: Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:49 AMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds???Hey Adam, Jim and List,Meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs you just need to go outand do a little hunting. I was able to recover 2.5 pounds over the lastmonth in a new area. Last year while I was hunting the Indian Buttemeteorite I stopped and talked with two BLM Rangers. We talked aboutmeteorite hunting. The two rangers had no problem with me hunting formeteorites and wished me good luck. I have also talked with the LasVegas BLM regarding meteorite hunting
Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Old Women Meteorite
Yep 100% agree. I'd go a step further and say data analysis/classification/curation of ALL meteoriteseven the little bitty ones. I got to tell you it's tough...very toughbeing a hunter...wanting to do the right thing getting finds classified and in curation. Especially when I am retired and seek no profit from any of this. BTW, do you have an area for USA meteorites set up for displaying them? I'll send you anything I have if you dono strings... other than I'd like to see them displayed. ASU doesn't even have an Arizona displaydrives me freaking nuts! Jim On 5/21/2014 4:07 PM, Carl Agee via Meteorite-list wrote: Hi Jim, Just between you and me -- and everyone else on the internet -- I wish NASA would spend a tiny fraction of their ~$19B annual budget on the recovery, classification, curation, and data analysis on scientifically valuable meteorites originating outside of Antarctica. They spend piles of money on JPL's remote sensing probes and archiving the data from missions but somehow the non-Antarctic samples in our labs and university museums are not as special to them -- and as far as I know they are from the same solar system :) :) Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net wrote: Hi Carl! I agree it is good where it's at. I really appreciated the opportunity to touch and see the Old Woman Meteorite. The girl in the office gave me the evil eye when I tried to roll it out of the BLM building! She thought I was joking around! ;) If there truly are additional pieces of the old gal, some one ought to go get it and re-unite them. I think UCLA should be jumping all over this with a vengeance. Funds could be raised to retrieve these. Russia would do it, I bet! I volunteer to be part of the ground crew and donate money to help make it happen by a qualified organization Won't believe it until I see pictures. Hiding something like this is nuts! I am mean really. Now back to watching epoxy cure! I need to call you next week. Jim On 5/21/2014 2:20 PM, Carl Agee wrote: I think the Old Woman could be in worse hands. Last time I checked the Smithsonian was our county's repository for national treasures -- i.e., it belongs to all Americans. I certainly enjoyed seeing the full slice on my last visit there -- also good to know that the main mass is on display in California for tourists to appreciate. Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jim Wooddell via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Hi Sonny, I thought the miners..or one of them passed? Let's go get it! Did they say how big the other pieces are? Jim On 5/21/2014 10:58 AM, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list wrote: Hey Adam and list Not too many peoplehave the resources to fight the federal government. Just talk to theminers that lost the Old Woman meteorite. With the Old Women Meteorite a second piece has been found. A third piece has also been found wedged under a large boulder half exposed. I have tried to get permission to remove the meteorite. I was told that the meteorite would be confiscated if recovered and best to leave it alone. This would be a great case to challenge in court. Sonny -Original Message- From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 10:06 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Prices for SouthWest Dry Lake Finds??? Sonny, That is great news. I am not saying that every experience with the BLM has been a negative one for me. I spent hours on the phone with three different agents from the Barstow and Needles offices and got variable answers. I was even told it was illegal to bring devices into an area that also contains heritage items or artifacts. This included a magnet on a stick. I did manage to get a permit to enter Ivanpah after one of my friends was ticketed there.The bottom line is that I do not want to see anybody hassled for selling meteorites found on public land. The only consistent answer I ever got was that meteorites found on public land are not to be used for commercial purposes.Sell at your own risk. For me, the thrill is finding them,Adam- Original Message - From: wahlpe...@aol.comTo: raremeteori...@centurylink.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent:
[meteorite-list] NASA Signs Agreement with Citizen Scientists Attempting to Communicate with ISEE-3 Spacecraft
May 21, 2014 NASA Signs Agreement with Citizen Scientists Attempting to Communicate with Old Spacecraft NASA has given a green light to a group of citizen scientists attempting to breathe new scientific life into a more than 35-year old agency spacecraft. The agency has signed a Non-Reimbursable Space Act Agreement (NRSAA) with Skycorp, Inc., in Los Gatos, California, allowing the company to attempt to contact, and possibly command and control, NASA's International Sun-Earth Explorer-3 (ISEE-3) spacecraft as part of the companyâs ISEE-3 Reboot Project. This is the first time NASA has worked such an agreement for use of a spacecraft the agency is no longer using or ever planned to use again. The NRSAA details the technical, safety, legal and proprietary issues that will be addressed before any attempts are made to communicate with or control the 1970's-era spacecraft as it nears the Earth in August. The intrepid ISEE-3 spacecraft was sent away from its primary mission to study the physics of the solar wind extending its mission of discovery to study two comets. said John Grunsfeld, astronaut and associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA headquarters in Washington. We have a chance to engage a new generation of citizen scientists through this creative effort to recapture the ISEE-3 spacecraft as it zips by the Earth this summer. Launched in 1978 to study the constant flow of solar wind streaming toward Earth, ISEE-3 successfully completed its prime mission in 1981. With remaining fuel and functioning instruments, it then was redirected to observe two comets. Following the completion of that mission, the spacecraft continued in orbit around the sun. It is now making its closest approach to Earth in more than 30 years. The goal of the ISEE-3 Reboot Project is to put the spacecraft into an orbit at a gravitationally stable point between Earth and the sun known as Lagrangian 1 (L1). Once safely back in orbit, the next step would be to return the spacecraft to operations and use its instruments as they were originally designed. ISEE-3's close approach in the coming weeks provides optimal conditions to attempt communication. If communications are unsuccessful, the spacecraft will swing by the moon and continue to orbit the sun. NASA has shared technical data these citizen scientists to help them communicate with and return data from ISEE-3. The contributions of any citizen science provided by the spacecraft, if it is successfully recovered, depend on the current condition of its instruments. New data resulting from the project will be shared with the science community and the public, providing a unique tool for teaching students and the public about spacecraft operations and data gathering. The data also will provide valuable information about the effects of the space environment on the 36-year old spacecraft. The ISEE-3 mission opened new pathways for scientific exploration, helping scientists better understand the sun-Earth system, which at its most turbulent can affect satellites around Earth and disrupt our technological infrastructure. To learn more about the ISEE-3 Reboot Project, visit: http://spacecollege.org/isee3 To learn more about ISEE-3, visit: http://go.nasa.gov/1mSskQs -end- Steve Cole Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0918 stephen.e.c...@nasa.gov Dennis Wingo Skycorp/ISEE-3 Reboot Project 310-403-1346 win...@skycorpinc.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://three.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
