Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Not All Lunar Meteorites Are Equal

[David Tann via Meteorite-list]

Mendy, thanks for your advice.  I'll consider what options I have as the next 
step. 

Sorry to bother all on the mailing list, on this particular matter, I will stop 
copying the whole list in from now.

Best,

David

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Sep 2017, at 16:19, Gmail <mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David, 
> 
> Museums are not likely to want to test meteorites for authenticity for many 
> reasons. First and foremost, doing so takes time away from research and 
> classification of new material. Secondly, differentiating between two 
> meteorites of the same classification is difficult if not impossible in some 
> cases. If you just want to know if it is a meteorite and not terrestrial, 
> there are people/companies that will perform that kind of work.
> 
> Buying from trusted dealers is really important because sometimes that 
> bargain may end up costing you much more than you may realize.
> 
> Mendy Ouzillou
> 
> On Sep 7, 2017, at 2:13 AM, David Tann via Meteorite-list 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Mike, I'd go even further in saying sadly 99% of the "meteorites" 
> circulating freely in and from China  are terrestrial rocks! The real Nantan 
> meteorites in private collection are extremely rare, a total of around 40 kg. 
> There is also a rarer type of meteorites intertwined with and inserted into 
> earth rocks indicating high impact crushing/explosion. I'm happy to be proven 
> wrong but as I said I have reasonable cause to believe my source to be 
> reliable and genuine, although it's going to take me sometime to completely 
> verify and document both types. I would naturally like to have the samples 
> tested. I was hoping you guys would be able to test and analyse the 
> composition of the samples for me, but I'll probably approach the Natural 
> History Museum.
> 
> Best,
> 
> David 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 6 Sep 2017, at 20:47, Michael Farmer <m...@meteoriteguy.com> wrote:
>> 
>> David. Sorry but I do mineral shows in china. Everyone has a nice stamped 
>> paper from one Chinese government source or another. Actually your piece 
>> certainly looks like Nantan meteorite. Sadly Nantan is nearly worthless. 
>> 
>> Michael Farmer
>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 11:55 AM, David Tann <dbt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Mike & Adam, for your valuable comments which I fully understand 
>>> and much appreciate. Fake meteorites and scandalous traders were indeed 
>>> acknowledged as a big problem in China, much like elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> I do however have reasonable confidence in the authenticity of the 
>>> meteorites as they were from no ordinary tom dick and harry but a trusted 
>>> and reliable source with high level connections in China; and they had been 
>>> assessed by professionals and academic experts from the Chinese Academy of 
>>> Sciences as genuine.
>>> 
>>> However, I'd like to have these and a great deal more independently tested 
>>> and verified in the UK. Could you advise on how to go about that please?
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance, your help is much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> David 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Sep 2017, at 16:52, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>>> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> People are suckers and if they want to buy crap then let them. In china 
>>>> most people want cheap. Well real good meteorites aren't cheap. So they 
>>>> buy fakes and are happy with low prices. 
>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>>>>> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> It reminds me of the China Syndrome when hundreds of terrestrial stones 
>>>>> were sold to collectors as meteorites on eBay.  Anything that was dark 
>>>>> and rounded including iron ore was sold to unsuspecting collectors as 
>>>>> meteorites fleecing them out of thousands of dollars. Some of them even 
>>>>> included old looking collection ID cards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Link to China Syndrome:
>>>>> http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_content=view=26=114
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was just a matter of time before fraud spread into all sectors of 
>>>>> meteorite collecting.  First it affected irons, then Pallasites, then 
>>>>> falls, then Martians and now Lunar 

Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Not All Lunar Meteorites Are Equal

[David Tann via Meteorite-list]

Thanks, Mike, I'd go even further in saying sadly 99% of the "meteorites" 
circulating freely in and from China  are terrestrial rocks! The real Nantan 
meteorites in private collection are extremely rare, a total of around 40 kg. 
There is also a rarer type of meteorites intertwined with and inserted into 
earth rocks indicating high impact crushing/explosion. I'm happy to be proven 
wrong but as I said I have reasonable cause to believe my source to be reliable 
and genuine, although it's going to take me sometime to completely verify and 
document both types. I would naturally like to have the samples tested. I was 
hoping you guys would be able to test and analyse the composition of the 
samples for me, but I'll probably approach the Natural History Museum.

Best,

David 
Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Sep 2017, at 20:47, Michael Farmer  wrote:
> 
> David. Sorry but I do mineral shows in china. Everyone has a nice stamped 
> paper from one Chinese government source or another. Actually your piece 
> certainly looks like Nantan meteorite. Sadly Nantan is nearly worthless. 
> 
> Michael Farmer
> 
>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 11:55 AM, David Tann  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Mike & Adam, for your valuable comments which I fully understand and 
>> much appreciate. Fake meteorites and scandalous traders were indeed 
>> acknowledged as a big problem in China, much like elsewhere.
>> 
>> I do however have reasonable confidence in the authenticity of the 
>> meteorites as they were from no ordinary tom dick and harry but a trusted 
>> and reliable source with high level connections in China; and they had been 
>> assessed by professionals and academic experts from the Chinese Academy of 
>> Sciences as genuine.
>> 
>> However, I'd like to have these and a great deal more independently tested 
>> and verified in the UK. Could you advise on how to go about that please?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance, your help is much appreciated.
>> 
>> David 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 6 Sep 2017, at 16:52, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> People are suckers and if they want to buy crap then let them. In china 
>>> most people want cheap. Well real good meteorites aren't cheap. So they buy 
>>> fakes and are happy with low prices. 
>>> Michael Farmer
>>> 
 On Sep 6, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
  wrote:
 
 It reminds me of the China Syndrome when hundreds of terrestrial stones 
 were sold to collectors as meteorites on eBay.  Anything that was dark and 
 rounded including iron ore was sold to unsuspecting collectors as 
 meteorites fleecing them out of thousands of dollars. Some of them even 
 included old looking collection ID cards.
 
 Link to China Syndrome:
 http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_content=view=26=114
 
 It was just a matter of time before fraud spread into all sectors of 
 meteorite collecting.  First it affected irons, then Pallasites, then 
 falls, then Martians and now Lunar material. The worst part is some 
 dealers are using the IMCA's good name to distribute untested, unproven 
 and in some cases fake material completely bypassing protections put in 
 place by following Meteoritical Society protocols which IMCA members are 
 supposed to adhere to.
 
 Adam
 
 
 
> On 9/6/2017 7:03 AM, Michael Farmer wrote:
> That's worth about $50
> Michael Farmer
>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 1:36 AM, David Tann  wrote:
>> 
>> Gents,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This 2800g IAB Nantan Meteorite was discovered in 1958 in Nantan, 
>> Guanxi, Southwest China. The fall was observed and clearly recorded in 
>> Chinese historical literature, it happened on 7 June 1516 over an 8 km 
>> length of area. Anyone interested please get in touch.
>> 
>> David
>> 07771888566
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 5 Sep 2017, at 17:54, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree fully. Great time to buy.
>>> 
>>> Michael Farmer
>>> 
 On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:31 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
  wrote:
 
 Just like Martians were a few years ago when the self-pairing and 
 piggy-backing reached an all time high at around 2012/NWA 7000.  And 
 before that, it was falls when some less than honest dealers were 
 substituting NWA material in place of the real thing. I remember 
 Claxton, which I acquired from Michael Blood later selling for less 
 than a $100.00 gram due to a lack in collector confidence.
 
 No meteorite is immune from less than honest business practices.  Many
 collectors will not touch anything that post 

Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Not All Lunar Meteorites Are Equal

[David Tann via Meteorite-list]

Thanks, Mike & Adam, for your valuable comments which I fully understand and 
much appreciate. Fake meteorites and scandalous traders were indeed 
acknowledged as a big problem in China, much like elsewhere.

I do however have reasonable confidence in the authenticity of the meteorites 
as they were from no ordinary tom dick and harry but a trusted and reliable 
source with high level connections in China; and they had been assessed by 
professionals and academic experts from the Chinese Academy of Sciences as 
genuine.

However, I'd like to have these and a great deal more independently tested and 
verified in the UK. Could you advise on how to go about that please?

Thank you in advance, your help is much appreciated.

David 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Sep 2017, at 16:52, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> People are suckers and if they want to buy crap then let them. In china most 
> people want cheap. Well real good meteorites aren't cheap. So they buy fakes 
> and are happy with low prices. 
> Michael Farmer
> 
>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> It reminds me of the China Syndrome when hundreds of terrestrial stones were 
>> sold to collectors as meteorites on eBay.  Anything that was dark and 
>> rounded including iron ore was sold to unsuspecting collectors as meteorites 
>> fleecing them out of thousands of dollars. Some of them even included old 
>> looking collection ID cards.
>> 
>> Link to China Syndrome:
>> http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_content=view=26=114
>> 
>> It was just a matter of time before fraud spread into all sectors of 
>> meteorite collecting.  First it affected irons, then Pallasites, then falls, 
>> then Martians and now Lunar material. The worst part is some dealers are 
>> using the IMCA's good name to distribute untested, unproven and in some 
>> cases fake material completely bypassing protections put in place by 
>> following Meteoritical Society protocols which IMCA members are supposed to 
>> adhere to.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/6/2017 7:03 AM, Michael Farmer wrote:
>>> That's worth about $50
>>> Michael Farmer
 On Sep 6, 2017, at 1:36 AM, David Tann  wrote:
 
 Gents,
 
 
 
 This 2800g IAB Nantan Meteorite was discovered in 1958 in Nantan, Guanxi, 
 Southwest China. The fall was observed and clearly recorded in Chinese 
 historical literature, it happened on 7 June 1516 over an 8 km length of 
 area. Anyone interested please get in touch.
 
 David
 07771888566
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 5 Sep 2017, at 17:54, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> I agree fully. Great time to buy.
> 
> Michael Farmer
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:31 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Just like Martians were a few years ago when the self-pairing and 
>> piggy-backing reached an all time high at around 2012/NWA 7000.  And 
>> before that, it was falls when some less than honest dealers were 
>> substituting NWA material in place of the real thing. I remember 
>> Claxton, which I acquired from Michael Blood later selling for less than 
>> a $100.00 gram due to a lack in collector confidence.
>> 
>> No meteorite is immune from less than honest business practices.  Many
>> collectors will not touch anything that post dates 2012 and are very 
>> leery of falls.
>> 
>> On the bright side. There is no better time to purchase genuine lunar 
>> material with good provenance and laboratory confirmation since the 
>> price is sure to go up just like the Martians that were dumped a few 
>> years ago.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/5/2017 8:30 AM, Michael Farmer wrote:
>>> You are pissing in the wind. Lunars are about worthless now. Moroccans 
>>> have dropped the price to less than that of eucrites. I want just in 
>>> Morocco. I saw kilos and kilos is lunar.
>>> Michael Farmer
 On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
  wrote:
 
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