RE: [meteorite-list] OT: SATURN'S MOON ENCELADUS HAS HOT WATER VOLCANO
Hi Stirling, Interesting theory, not sure if the fast breeder reactor effect, would be moderated that successfully in a planet situation though. Since the lighter 'ice' (i.e water/steam when hot) would tend move to the 'outside shell' of the active nuclear core, it would only moderate neutrons on the very outer surface of the core rather than neutrons from the whole core. (Since neutrons deep inside the core would be self absorbed and cause further fission). It would certainly extend the lifetime of the heat slightly but not I suspect by billions of years. One other thing, could it be that the tidal forces assume the planet is made of certain materials anmd certain desities, if the planet where more elastic than we think, then you could be looking at factors many times what was originally thought. Like Tunguska, maybe? Trouble with that is, where are all the fission decay products? Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:55 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: SATURN'S MOON ENCELADUS HAS HOT WATER VOLCANO Hi, All British newspapers and the BBC are making much of recently released Cassini photos and data from the earlier flyby of Saturn's moon Enceladus. Enceladus, against expectation, has a water vapor atmosphere, eruptive plumes of hot water vapor from volcanic fissures at its South Pole, hundreds of miles high, which raises questions about what the source of its internal heat may be. Most of these articles point out that gravitational tidal heating is inadequate (less than 1% of the energy required) and assert that radioactive decay is also inadequate. While tidal heating is easily calculated, the amount of radioactive decay heat depends entirely on how much radioactive materials you believe the moon to contain, and that is anybody's guess! How about: wrong guess? If there are only two possible explanations and we know one (tidal) is wrong, there don't seem to be too many choices left... Both water and uranic oxides condense at the same temperature at low pressures (~160 K) and it is logical to assume that icy bodies would have a lot of radioactives. Uranium and ice make a pretty good natural reactor (ice is a good neutron moderator) and such a reactor would act as a breeder reactor that would produce a natural fuel cycle that would allow the reaction to be maintained for billions of years. Even good-sized comets could contain their own internal heat sources from natural reactors, which might explain the fact that their outgassing has proved impossible to predict as a thermal effect. Comets like comet P/Schwassmann-Wachmann 1, which has an almost circular solar orbit without thermal variation, go through wild swings of activity and inactivity that are impossible to explain otherwise. If natural reactors sounds weird to you, the Earth had one in Gabon that perked along for billions of years until it perked out. No ice for a moderator, you see. All of which finally and vaguely connects this topic to the Meteorite List. An impact from a comet with a natural reactor inside would produce an impact event all out of proportion to the size of the body, because re-entry would cause it to be forced together, whereupon it would go critical and explode. Like Tunguska, maybe? Sterling K. Webb - Text of article follows: Scientists baffled by mystery heat source on Saturn's moon Enceladus http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/31/wmoon31.xmlsSheet=/news/2005/08/31/ixnewstop.html Space scientists said yesterday that they were baffled and excited at the discovery of a mysterious heat source beneath the surface of Enceladus, one of Saturn's moons. Readings taken by the Cassini spacecraft and unveiled yesterday unexpectedly showed the 311 mile-wide moon had an atmosphere composed mostly of water vapour. The most detailed images yet of the moon show a series of long and intriguing fault lines around Enceladus's south pole. Cassini's instruments identified an unexplained source of heat below the moon's surface in this region that appears to be shooting out jets of gas, ice and dust particles. Scientists are intrigued because neither radioactive decay nor gravitational tidal forces, thought to be the only two potential sources of internal heating of planetary bodies, should be able to generate the effects measured by Cassini. Prof Michele Dougherty, of Imperial College London, and principal investigator for Cassini's magnetic field measuring equipment, said: It was a complete surprise to find these signals at Enceladus. These new results from Cassini may be the first evidence of gases originating either from the surface or possibly from the interior of Enceladus. Dr Torrence Johnson, from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, said at a news conference in London
RE: [meteorite-list] Impactika remeding an honest mistake
... Just goes to show, the precise reason why we should keep proper records of where material came from and where we sold it on to... it's the only way we can help stop the fakes from infiltrating our collections! MF -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Impactika remeding an honest mistake In a message dated 8/29/2005 9:20:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear List, Being a member of this List has allowed me to acquire a modest collection of which I am quite proud. Recently it came to my attention that a purchace that I made through Impactika[Anne Black] may have sneaked through the screening process and been misrepresented. The fragment of Dhofar 025 that has graced my collection is more probably something else. Thanks to my membership on the List I was made aware of this. Anne Black, without the slightest hesitation, has offered to refund the entire amount and I will accept. I would like to publically thank Anne for her courtesy and remind everyone that as human beings, we all make mistakes. How we respond to becoming aware of a mistake is what separates the good from the great. Thank you Anne. You are GREAT. Jerry Flaherty -- Jerry!!! You are going to make me blush!;-) But seriously, I am glad I was able to undo this mistake. Again I am sorry. And thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Gear Up for Historic Asteroid Passin 2029 (99942 Apophis)
Hi Eric, I'm 100% with you there! Well said that man. And it shouldn't be left to NASA either, we all have a responsibility on this and the ESA is just as complacent IMHO. Everyone also assumes that it will be one single nice round neat asteroid that will hit us at some point (and one will hit us at some point, that is certain!), what about if it is a shoemaker-Levy-9 scenario where the numerous cometry debris is spread out over several thousand clicks? We would need many spacecraft to divert the debris even if we could!! It makes me laugh they are quite happy to ban lead in electronics or put fences near cliff edges in case someone hurts themselves, but when it comes to complete global annihilation of billions of people and destruction of most of life on earth, then they all turn into Ostriches, and put their heads well in the sand, - well my friends one day that sand will turn into tektites!! Mark Ford -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:37 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Gear Up for Historic Asteroid Passin 2029 (99942 Apophis) It's not gonna knock your socks off, and it certainly won't be the brightest object in the sky, but it'll be easily observable with the naked eye, said Don Yeomans, manager of NASA's Near Earth Object (NEO) ProgramYeomans said scientists should be able to conclude with 99.8 percent accuracy whether a future impact scenario can be ruled out and he believes we should therefore wait before launching a mission that could cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Until then, Yeomans says he won't be losing sleep over Apophis. It's an interesting object and it's raised some interesting issues, but a worrisome threat? No, said Yeomans. We've got plenty of time. It is just this sort of cavalier attitude that makes me wish the next asteroid found will be 100% dead on target to impact earth. Until that happens bureaucrats like Yeomans will have no incentive to do anything about diverting impactors. Hey no problem it is years away, long after I am retired. When the next impactor is discovered 6 months or 9 months or 1 year out there will be little time for anything except the finger pointing. You don't have to change the course of the comet very much to miss the keyhole if you do it a number of years in advance, said Clark Chapman, And the converse of that is that you don't have to change the course much to get an impact either, a bank shot off another small asteroid might do or a close approach to a larger one. I am not paranoid and think a large impact in my lifetime is unlikely. However I am amazed that the US government can spend $2 million on a heated bus stop in Alaska, or $15-$20 Billion on farm subsidies, etc, etc and almost nothing on NEO detection and absolutely nothing on impactor diversion. SOHO just discovered its 1000th comet with 900 of them found in just the last 5 years. The longest lead time on a comet is what - 9 months? The government can't scratch it own ass in 9 months let alone mount a diversion program. I believe we have the technical capability but that the government, all governments, are totally lacking in the will to do anything. Only an imminent impact will change that. I just hope it is an asteroid 10-20 years out and not a comet 9 months out. I will step off my soapbox now, take a deep breath and return to calm obscurity. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Some of you may have a free rare earth magnet
Yeah, I know from experience about never keeping a magnet in your wallet! This got me thinking, what about converting one of those credit card torches into a pocket electromagnet? by replacing the LED with a small coil of wire covered in epoxy glue, Just a thought - then you have a pocket magnet that won't affect compasses or credit cards! - Since you can turn it off. Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some of you may have a free rare earth magnet Darren Garrison wrote; If you have any AOL packages like this, it would be a nice little freebie to keep inside your wallet or something in case you might happen to need it. If you do not like your credit cards, driver licenses or any other cards that have the black strips on the back you could keep a strong magnet in your wallet. But, if you like them, do not keep a strong magnet anywhere near them, or they will not work next time you want to use it! : ) Thanks, Tom peregrineflier - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Some of you may have a free rare earth magnet I thought that this might be of interest to some of you because of magnets being used as a diagnostic tool in identifying meteorites. There is a type of AOL disc packaging that is a bulky square cardboard and plastic clamshell box. The two cardboard flaps snap together magneticly. I had a couple of them and was mildly curious to see what kind of magnets were inside (I assumed that it would be those weak, flexible magnets that are sold in rolls in craft stores). But what was inside is a very tiny but very strong (for the size) coated rare earth magnet-- possibly a Neodymium one. If you have any AOL packages like this, it would be a nice little freebie to keep inside your wallet or something in case you might happen to need it. Photo: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tiny_magnet.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 8/15/2005 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel
Hi Göran, Yep, I've also got a few sikhote shrapnels with definite flow lines, so must have been due to detonation in the air, since I can't see how flow lines can form whist imbedding in a tree etc... Best Mark -Original Message- From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:20 AM To: Göran Axelsson; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel G'day Göran, My understanding (and I could be wrong here?) was that most Sikhote-Alin shrapnel was formed when the piece/s detonated in the air during its fall. Mike's piece is probably a good example of showing how the forces/pressure on that piece grew to such a point, the structure of the meteorite (coarsest octahedrite) was no longer able to support it. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Göran Axelsson To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel I was looking through some of Michael Farmers auctions on Ebay and one piece made me puzzled. It was a 7 kg oriented Sikhote-Alin that had flowlines. I thought that all the shrapnel pieces were created when larger meteorites impacted and tore the metal apart. But flowlines should mean that this shrapnel were created in flight. My question is if there are shrapnel pieces created in flight? I have a neat oriented Sikhote-Alin in my collection, complete with flowlines, thumbprinting and even fractured surfaces and teared metal. It isn't a shrapnel and there still are some crust on the leading edge with finer flowlines in the crust. If a shrapnel piece would have crust with flowlines then I would be convinced that it was created in flight but isn't it possible that there could be similar structures without crust created when it hits the ground? I'm just curious as this is the first shrapnel I've heard about with flowlines. Regards, Göran Michael Farmer wrote: I have loaded another 53 meteorites on ebay, most starting at... -- snipp -- 7 kilo ORIENTED Sikhote-Alin piece. $4000.00 specimen, up for one cent. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6551087736 -- snip -- Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel
Martin, Thanks for the link, very interesting, (though somewhat simplified imho). There have been quite a few oriented (with flow lines) SA shrapnel pieces pulled out of trees etc, it will be interesting to see if anyone has any idea's as to the formation mechanism. If the 3rd and 4th detonation/fragmentations where too low, (for there to be enough flight time for flowlines to form) and the explosion on impact (the normal shrapnel forming process) was not consistent with flowline formation, then the question is, how are they formed? I guess the flowlines on my SA shrapnel could conceivably be shock induced lines formed by the explosive energy during impact? But some of the examples ive seen pictures of, look exactly like normal flow lines. Best, Mark Ford -O riginal Message- From: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:08 AM To: mark ford; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel Göran, Mark, Jeff, List here a nice vizualisation of the fragmentation processes of Sikhote. According to this model, the pieces of the 3th and 4th fragmentation can't have flow lines. http://www.geocities.com/diane_va/sikhote-alin/index_E.html (click on The fragmentation) Martinho. - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel Hi Göran, Yep, I've also got a few sikhote shrapnels with definite flow lines, so must have been due to detonation in the air, since I can't see how flow lines can form whist imbedding in a tree etc... Best Mark -Original Message- From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:20 AM To: Göran Axelsson; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel G'day Göran, My understanding (and I could be wrong here?) was that most Sikhote-Alin shrapnel was formed when the piece/s detonated in the air during its fall. Mike's piece is probably a good example of showing how the forces/pressure on that piece grew to such a point, the structure of the meteorite (coarsest octahedrite) was no longer able to support it. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Göran Axelsson To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question on oriented SA shrapnel I was looking through some of Michael Farmers auctions on Ebay and one piece made me puzzled. It was a 7 kg oriented Sikhote-Alin that had flowlines. I thought that all the shrapnel pieces were created when larger meteorites impacted and tore the metal apart. But flowlines should mean that this shrapnel were created in flight. My question is if there are shrapnel pieces created in flight? I have a neat oriented Sikhote-Alin in my collection, complete with flowlines, thumbprinting and even fractured surfaces and teared metal. It isn't a shrapnel and there still are some crust on the leading edge with finer flowlines in the crust. If a shrapnel piece would have crust with flowlines then I would be convinced that it was created in flight but isn't it possible that there could be similar structures without crust created when it hits the ground? I'm just curious as this is the first shrapnel I've heard about with flowlines. Regards, Göran Michael Farmer wrote: I have loaded another 53 meteorites on ebay, most starting at... -- snipp -- 7 kilo ORIENTED Sikhote-Alin piece. $4000.00 specimen, up for one cent. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=6551087736 -- snip -- Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites?????????????
Aren't they those microscopic things in Starwars that give Luke Skywalker 'the power of the Force'. Sorry I couldn't resist !! :) -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 5:31 AM To: met list Subject: [meteorite-list] Metachondrites? Okay list, what in the heck is a Metachondrite? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Whhhaaaa-a-aaaaat??????????
... survive should have been stopped in the caves with our ancestors? Ah but Dave, living in a Cave?? - Surley that's interfering with Nature in it's self!! - surely your 'supposed' to get wet, according to Nature... :) Joke! Daves right, it's ridiculous, if we have the means we should do it, why should we sit there and watch 50 million people and animals vaporize, just because some 's say 'we shouldn't interfere', - get real! 2029 is not long either, only 5 or so 'mission generations' doesn't give us long to perfect the technology needed... However the cynic in me suspects this is just another mars-water-like attempt at generating a few more space missions... Best Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Google Moon
Very good! Also try http://earth.google.com/ -Original Message- From: Jim Strope [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:25 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Google Moon Google also has a sense of humor. Soom that photo in as far as possible. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:27 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Moon http://moon.google.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Mars rover pollution
Hi, I'd like to chip in here as this is one of my all time major soapbox issues! The point about sterilising the Rovers being 'very difficult' is a fair one, but how the hell can you send a probe to potentially look for signs of life, when it is carrying unknown and possibly yet-undiscovered bacteria There are plenty of microbes on Earth which could survive on Mars, there may well be some yet undiscovered ones that could thrive on mars for all we know. What ever the case, IF we find life on Mars (I don't personally believe we ever will) but we will never be 100% sure that it is not an unknown terrestrial organism released into the Martian atmosphere by human activity, the mars life experiment is already a failure in my book! I am sorry but when I see pictures of technicians arrogantly drinking coffee and not wearing masks when they are constructing such vital scientific probes/rovers It really annoys me, how dare they, we are not talking about a communications satellite, but a pristine vitally important [entire planet]. I don't even drink coffee when I am working on industrial electronics let alone space probes!! The standards of work at JPL/Nasa are clearly in need of an overhaul. I am sure they could have sterilised the rovers once in space if they had the will, and once the rovers have finished their task on the surface they could have initiated some kind of auto-sterilise/destruct sequence using explosives, to prevent internal contamination leaching to the outside world once the rovers degrade, got to be better than spraying with ethane and hoping that the odds make it 'unlikley' - unlikely is not good enough. Still it's too late know. Best Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] OT: Happy Bastille Day
Hi Sterling, ... Of course here in the UK, today is St Swithern's day, where tradition has it that if it rains today then it will be bad weather for 40 days and nights. There is a tiny element of truth to this as at this time of year weather tends to hang around for longer periods... .. Another useless fact! Best Mark -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:11 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Happy Bastille Day Hi, To the French members of The List, now that the pesky rotation of the planet has ended it in France, a belated Bastille Day greeting. Our European members frequently extend national holiday greetings to the USA, so I'm trying to return the favor. As for the United Kingdom, as soon as I figure out what Guy Fauwkes Day and Boxing Day ARE, I'll be ready to do the same for them... Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Spongy-Looking Hyperion Tumbles Into View
All I can say is wow! If anyone hasn't looked at Ron's link yet, do so, its amazing, especially in 3D. Anyone care to speculate on how the holes formed, impact or out-gassing? http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov MF -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:47 AM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Spongy-Looking Hyperion Tumbles Into View MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109 TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Guy Webster (818) 354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Preston Dyches (720) 974-5859 Cassini Imaging Central Laboratory for Operations Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. Image Advisory: 2005-114July 11, 2005 Spongy-Looking Hyperion Tumbles Into View Two new Cassini views of Saturn's tumbling moon Hyperion offer the best looks yet at one of the icy, irregularly-shaped moons that orbit the giant, ringed planet. The image products released today include a movie sequence and a 3D view, and are available at http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov, http://www.nasa.gov/cassini and http://ciclops.org . The views were acquired between June 9 and June 11, 2005, during Cassini's first brush with Hyperion. Hyperion is decidedly non-spherical and its unusual shape is easy to see in the movie, which was acquired over the course of two and a half days. Jagged outlines visible on the moon's surface are indicators of large impacts that have chipped away at its shape like a sculptor. Preliminary estimates of its density show that Hyperion is only about 60 percent as dense as solid water ice, indicating that much of its interior (40 percent or more) must be empty space. This makes the moon more like an icy rubble pile than a solid body. In both the movie and the 3D image, craters are visible on the moon's surface down to the limit of resolution, about 1 kilometer (0.6 mile) per pixel. The fresh appearance of most of these craters, combined with their high spatial density, makes Hyperion look something like a sponge. The moon's spongy-looking exterior is an interesting coincidence, as much of Hyperion's interior appears to consist of voids. Hyperion is close to the size limit where, like a child compacting a snowball, internal pressure due to the moon's own gravity will begin to crush weak materials like ice, closing pore spaces and eventually creating a more nearly spherical shape. The images used to create these views were obtained with Cassini's narrow-angle camera at distances ranging from approximately 815,000 to 168,000 kilometers (506,000 to 104,000 miles) from Hyperion. Cassini will fly within 510 kilometers (317 miles) of Hyperion on Sept. 26, 2005. The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Cassini-Huygens mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. The Cassini orbiter and its two onboard cameras were designed, developed and assembled at JPL. The imaging team is based at the Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT - Major Terrorist Attack on London...
Hi, There has been a major terrorist attack on London at least 6 Bombs have gone off at underground stations and at least one Bus has been blown up, London is at maximum alert. There are unfortunately quite a few casualties. One bus bomb was near the British museum. More at www.bbc.co.uk/news Best, Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] OT - Major Terrorist Attack on London...
Hi Manoj, Yes it's pretty bad, at least 50 deaths and many hundreds injured, the entire London cell phone network went down, There are still people being rescued from the underground rail tunnels. I knew it was serious when they initially said it was a 'power surge' (this explanation is automatically used by emergency planning when there is a suspected terrorist attack, to avoid mass panic). One saving grace I suppose is at least London is well prepared for this sort of thing, and has previous experience of terrorist IRA bombings during the 1980's, so hopefully things should return to normal fairly soon. Just glad I didn't take a day trip to London today, I had thought about it!! Best Regards, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Manoj Pai [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:46 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Major Terrorist Attack on London... Deeply pained to hear the news. We are all glued to the TV. On last count it was 2 death and 208 injuries. A total of 7 explosions. Hope Dave and other members of BIMS as well Sarah and our friends in the Museum are OK. Wishes Manoj --- mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There has been a major terrorist attack on London at least 6 Bombs have gone off at underground stations and at least one Bus has been blown up, London is at maximum alert. There are unfortunately quite a few casualties. One bus bomb was near the British museum. Best, Mark Ford __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: [off topic] Fwd: To all interested Parties
Not more than a few thousand times. And they were all bad people. Bad! Bad! They hated our freedom! No, in civilized countries they are supposed to be innocent until they have had a fair trial, fair treatment, and guilt has been proven. Trouble is, to date almost none of the inmates of Guantanamo has had any trial (or in most cases not even access to lawyers etc). What went on in Oman is actually not all that much different to Guantanamo (which is just the public face of many such sites), so I don't think anyone is particularly in the moral high ground here... It's time people realized that other countries do things very differently, Oman is not America. When you go to these places, these are the risks you must take. To me what makes the world such an exciting place is the very fact that everywhere is different, and it's about time certain countries stopped forcefully imposing their cultures on everyone else...but ho hum, just glad they all got home safely. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:29 PM To: DALMASSO Thomas Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: [off topic] Fwd: To all interested Parties On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:23:29 +0200, DALMASSO Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Sorry for the off-topic, but we seem to always point to the same countries, but do you think actually that what is written below never happened in the USA after Sept. 11th? Not more than a few thousand times. And they were all bad people. Bad! Bad! They hated our freedom! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: [off topic] Fwd: To all interested Parties
Yes obviously 911 was very different to this but, how would you like it if you or your family was snatched in the middle of the night because you 'sounded a bit suspect' to some intelligence analyst, based on patchy information) then held in a cell for months/years, interrogated etc, without any trial or anything? It's very easy to say they must all automatically be terrorists, but the rule of law has been in place for centuries for a very good reason, - dangerous route to go down that. As for Oman and Meteorites it's still not exactly clear if the government wants to control the export of meteorites!? there is a massive cultural difference between 'them and us' and you have local officials and soldiers etc who can (and do) basically what they want, the very fact that a bribe had to allegedly be paid illustrates the point... the rules seem inconsistent and subject to change without notice. The unfortunate events that John and his colleagues have undergone, have sent a clear enough message, don't go there if you don't want the chance of something similar happening to you. It won't be on my top 10 holiday destinations for a while! :) Best Mark -Original Message- From: JKGwilliam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:12 PM To: DALMASSO Thomas; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: [off topic] Fwd: To all interested Parties How does collecting meteorites in the Omani desert compare to the killing of thousands of human beings? You are compring apples to oranges. To me, the solution is simple. If the Oman government wants to control or curtail the collection and export of meteorites from their country all they have to do is share that information on any of several forums (like this list) that are available. That way, meteorite hunters from around the world would know what the official position is on the issue. Why do you think it is that they allowed tons of meteorites to clear Customs prior to this incident? Maybe a few strategically placed signs (in several languages) posted in the airports and near the customs areas stating that collection and exportation of meteorites is forbidden would be helpful. Best, JKGwilliam At 08:23 AM 6/23/2005, DALMASSO Thomas wrote: Hello all, Sorry for the off-topic, but we seem to always point to the same countries, but do you think actually that what is written below never happened in the USA after Sept. 11th? Best Regards, Thom, Bruges, Belgium. -Original Message- From: AL Mitterling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Any country that holds people without charges, doesn't permit them to contact their countries embassies when trouble arises (reasonable length of time), takes property is in my opinion guilty of crimes themselves. Such countries should be avoided at all costs. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] BIMS URL
Hi Steve, I sent you a couple of off list emails when you posted on this the other day, you may have missed them so I will resend it BTW the URL for BIMS is www.bimsociety.org Best, Mark Ford (Chairman BIMS) (British and Irish Meteorite Society) -Original Message- From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:49 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] BIMS URL Will someone please inform me of the url for the BIM society please?I am having a herd time getting to it. steve arnold, usa Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] WD-40
Mark, Interesting, you have to bear in mind though that WD-40 is a low cost mass produced product, I doubt it gets 'dried', and is certainly not Anhydrous. Bearing in mind it is essentially a natural volatile organic solvent with a few additives, (c9-c11+) i.e a petrochemical (by)product, it will probably contain natural water (as does petroleum in our cars and most other natural based fuels). To me the main problem with it is, WD-40 leaves a thin sticky residue, and is only a very temporary protector, since it evaporates very quickly. There are far better oils/sprays around, such as gun oil, VCI's and Lithium Grease (for Irons), all much more stable and well proven. I have stopped my Campos rusting successfully, by using a thin wipe of Lithium Grease. Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 3:23 PM To: AL Mitterling Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WD-40 This is interesting and I should address this with the makers then since the MSDS states that WD-40 is made from naptha and hydrotreated heavy mineral oil. It may be the accessory ingredients which are inert which cause this problem. I'll get back to the list once I have an answer from the company. But, I like your gun oil idea also. But am worried about the smell. How does it react with poly bags and the styrene type storage/display boxes? Mark On June 2, 4:59 pm AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark and all, WD40 is basically kerosene but refined. We had discussions many years back about this oil for use on meteorites. What was determine back then if I remember right, was that some batches of WD40 were OK but others batches contained more water in it. People had both good luck and bad luck depending if they got a batch with water in it or not. If it is made from Kerosene then I can understand why it could contain water (every burn a kerosene heater? Humidity goes up!). I just know that some people who used it had rusting problems with it. I personally use Sheath gun oil as it displaces moisture very well. It smells terrible but seems to work good. Any oil used SHOULD NOT CONTAIN CHLORIDES as those will cause major rusting problems. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can address this issue. --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: A Message Concerning Oman
Yes welcome home lads, we appreciate what you guys do to get our rocks!! MF -Original Message- From: Notkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:57 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: A Message Concerning Oman Dear Listees: I'd like to send a sincere welcome home to my neighbor John Blennert, and the rest of the Omani nine. Being detained in a foreign country for well over a month must have been an ordeal for them all. I hope everyone now clearly understands why requests were made to curtail public discussion of the Oman situation on the M-List, while John B. and his friends were in custody. Thanks to those of you who respected those requests. List member John Gwilliam is too modest to say anything, but he spent an enormous amount of time and energy assisting his friends and colleagues while they were stuck in Oman. Hats off to John. Sincerely, Geoff N. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: WHERE HUNTING was [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Released fromOman
Hi Pierre and List, If we lose deserts for meteorite hunting, it's the beginning of the end for your hobby so we have to find new areas. I don't think it will mean the beginning of the end of the hobby, - it may even go back to being like the good old days, when material was highly treasured and usually properly labeled recorded. - And let's face it, it was only ever going to be a 'finite resource'. When I started collecting around 20 years ago, meteorite collecting was fun, almost magical, of course that was before the internet really opened up trade, but who knows maybe some of the pathetic bickering and market manipulation will disappear once all the NWA fields dry up? ... A cynical view, I know - but hey ... ;) Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Kansas: Creation, Evolution and Intelligent Design
Well since the famous 'god thread' is back... (Where's Marcia when you need her??) Here's my take on the universe, I call it 'realistic fundamentalism' The 'creationists et al' basically appear to say that life is too amazing to have happened by pure chance, so in their view it must have been created by a god since clearly only he is 'clever enough' , and they usually use the classic argument ' ... ok so what was there before the big bang? Here's why that is, IMHO, such a crock of shat: What ever they say - they have a fundamental problem: 1. Either there was a god being who appeared from nowhere (chicken and egg!) then created the universe. 3. Or the universe appeared from nowhere. (Of course time is really just a 'man thing' there was no 'before the big bang' time is an effect we perceive nothing more. So words like 'before time began' are simply irrelevant. The question for me is - what does god have to do with the price of fish?,i.e why does he even need to enter into the equation?, there is simply no evidence whatsoever, If a god can arise by chance in the first place then so can a universe without a god, you'd just get back to the problem who created god!? The answer is religion is simply a mechanism invented by man, to: a) Control Society b) A holding theory to explain away the world we see, before the invention of proper analytical tools. At the end of the day people will always want to believe in something, and they certainly won't let the truth get in the way, religion is basically man kind slowly going stir crazy on this damp chunk of rock floating in space and in IMHO it certainly has no place on the school desk, and does the US really want a produce a generation of 'burger eating prayer monkeys? :)' We should just teach them proven fact (or as close as we get) and let them decide the rest for themselves, (an alien concept it seems for some religions). Just my 2g worth... Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: MARK BOSTICK [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:17 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kansas: Creation,Evolution and Intelligent Design Hello list, intelligence Design is an attempt...although it is happening, so i am not sure if attempt is a right word to bring the bible back into the classroom. Something they not being very secret about. This started a few years ago and they tried to pass it in Kansas court, they couldnt get it through, so they spend several millions, getting those that blocked it, removed out of the Kansas legislation, this was for the legal right of adding intelligence design to the textbooks. So they get the legislation set up with the people they want, pass it, and bring it to the school board. The school board was like screw that nonsense, you do not have a complete theory. So now they are going to force their will on the school board, so we are having a debate. They have also redefined to the meaning of science in Kansas, literally. Not word for word, but it was something like facts about the world and enviroment around us to attempts to explain the world and enviroment around us. Again, not word for word, but it is easy to see where this going. So we have our debates going. Which are funny in general. I have never seen such a Kangaroo court. They were careful in choosing their witnesses, had pre-written questions that are carefully worded, and those that talk are not allowed to answer anything but the questions asked. Debates are usually not so one-siding. Or at least not public debates. But Kansas is just the beginning. Liberal region views.unconstitutionally coming to a school near you. In 10 years, half of the school in American will be teaching creation. Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Embarressed to say I live in Kansas. www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Is Amgala Official? / New Bulletin
Canyon Diablo, what was the reasoning for that name Tom, Canyon Diablo = Valley of the devil Castellio Diablo = castle/house of the devil, the name of a particularly horrible tasting red wine, that was on special offer at my local supermarket, - which wasn't even usable in cooking! Best Mark -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:31 AM To: Michael L Blood; Adam Hupe; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Amgala Official? / New Bulletin Hi Mike and list, speaking of Canyon Diablo, what was the reasoning for that name? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm http://fstop.proboards24.com/ - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Amgala Official? / New Bulletin on 5/10/05 10:47 AM, Adam Hupe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another note: I still think most will still use the name Amgala. This is because most collectors know it under this name. -- Hi Adam and all, I respectfully disagree - eventually, it will be known by its true name, though formerly called Amgala is likely to be around a while. The name approved by the Nomenclature Committee is the name. I can call Canyon Diablo Meteor Crater all I want, it will always be, however, Canyon Diablo. In fact, many meteorite collectors could call it Meteor Crater and it would still be Canyon Diablo and there would always be those that refuse to use the wrong nomenclature and respectable dealers would label it properly. I have seen this phenomenon in botany: Fucaria columnaris was known for many years as Idria columnaris, until, about two decades ago it was reclassified as a species of Fucaria. While to this day, one occasionally sees it advertised in exotic plant catalogs as Idria columnaris, it is Fucaria columnaris because it belongs to the genus Fucaria in the formal botanical Taxon. What has been called Amgala will be known as Oum Dreyga because it is being officially entered in the formal meteorite Taxon as Oum Dreyga. Best wishes, Michael -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite
Well, looking at the sellers feedback, if it is fake DH025 then a lot of famous collectors/dealers have been burned -Original Message- From: Meteoryt.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:41 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite Hi http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6531307 234rd=1 Dhofar 025 :(( For me its piece of slag. And looks like we have another Pallasite from Serge Afanasjev PALLASOVKA http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6531312 877rd=1ssPageName=WDVW -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
FW: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite
But, the photo of the real stuff looks pretty vescular to me http://www.timewarp.de/images/lunar/Dho025-0.352g.JPG -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:28 PM To: mark ford; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite With all carefullness and expressing only my personal opinion: I wouldn't buy this Dho 025. I took a cheap fragment for curiosness (1.345g at 150$/g) and I'm convinced, that it isn't Dho 025 nor a lunaite at all. Much to vesicular. The story, the seller told me about the provenience can't be true neither (beside some unbelievable details): They told to have it acquired from ebay in Feb 2002. The finder of Dho025, who had that locality exclusevely, didn't sell it at that time on ebay, nor does he know those people. Furthermore he sold always thin slices only, but the piece I took is a fat fragment, obviously not token from a slice. The main mass, where it only could stem from, was in the possession of the finder until it was sold in Tucson in 2004 and not in 2002. The reason, why I couldn't warn yet (and care for getting my money back) is, that I'm careful in blaming others to sell fakes and I wanted to show my fragment to the finder first, who I'll met not before Ensisheim. (You may bring your specimens there too). I only asked a certain person not to spread this doubtful material in giveaways for free, until I'll have more cogent informations - obviously without success. Buckleboo! Martin - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite Well, looking at the sellers feedback, if it is fake DH025 then a lot of famous collectors/dealers have been burned -Original Message- From: Meteoryt.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:41 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Fake Lunar and new Pallasite Hi http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6531307 234rd=1 Dhofar 025 :(( For me its piece of slag. And looks like we have another Pallasite from Serge Afanasjev PALLASOVKA http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6531312 877rd=1ssPageName=WDVW -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] PHOTO OF A LUNAR IMPACT EVENT (was Crackpotin the news...)
Hi, Let's keep this in context, Not all TLP observers are crackpots, (though every subject clearly attracts a few!) There are a number well of respected astronomers who observe the moon looking for TLP's (transient Lunar Phenomena) they are not looking for little green men, but remnant Geological activity, such as out gassing (and perhaps occasional meteor strikes). There are literally thousands of well documented TLP'S (The BAA maintains a large TLP database) (TLP'S are cases of strange glows and flashes regularly observed on the surface), people such as Moore, Herschel, and other great astronomers have seen them. They do exist, the question is are these flashes and glows meteor strikes, out gassing, (or simply bizarre lighting effects due to odd lunar libration). This is why people study them to learn more. There is certainly something in it, since most of the sightings are concentrated around the Aristarchus and the Plato crater areas, both area's have potential for remnant geological activity too since the geology of the area points to volcanic activity in the (geologically speaking) recent past. So bear in mind this is a real phenomena even if a few 'Loonies' start to twist the evidence to fit the theories, (just like quite a few religions I could mention...!) Best, Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Barred chondrule, ok, try this one!
Hi Tom, You should maybe take a look in the book 'The Cambridge encyclopedia of meteorites' (O richard Norton) there are some good illustrations of the major chondrule types in there Looks like another partially melted Barred chondrule to me... Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:51 PM To: met list Subject: [meteorite-list] Barred chondrule, ok, try this one! Hi list, this meteorite has some cool stuff, I had never seen a barred chondrule before, but know I know! : )But have you seen one of these? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/peregrineflier/DSCN1000.jpg Thanks, Tom peregrineflier Once was member of the IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm http://fstop.proboards24.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Huge Ball of Fire Spotted Over Spain
NOT AGAIN!??? - that's not fair! What is it about Spain that seems to attract fireballs!?? -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:02 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Ball of Fire Spotted Over Spain http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/other_news/art icleid=234883 'Huge ball of fire' over Spain Sapa-AFP Madrid, Spain 13 April 2005 A meteorite that residents described as a huge ball of fire was spotted on Wednesday over the eastern Spanish regions of Catalonia and Valencia, according to astronomers in the region. We received scores of calls from witnesses, who at first thought it was an asteroid flashing past. But judging from its size, it was a meteorite, said a spokesperson for a Catalonia-based astronomers' association. Motorists spotted the glowing sphere from the motorway linking Spain with southern France and reported seeing it break up into fragments. The meteorite glowed a greenish hue as it sped through the atmosphere on a northeast-southeast trajectory. That leads us to think it fell into the sea, the spokesperson said. The observatory at Valencia University said it estimates the celestial body was travelling at around 10 000kph when it entered the atmosphere. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there
Nice pics. A Classic illustration of why classification is so very important! Especially with Martian and Lunar Material... Best, Mark -Original Message- From: Robert Verish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral Subject: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Hello Brother Graham and List, http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/2mars1not.jpg As you can tell from the above image, Brother Graham and I belong to the same fraternity - The Fraternal Order of Green Rock Picker-Uppers. And here is an in-situ image showing where I found my green rock: http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/MRF04996.jpg Actually, Graham, my story is much shorter than yours. I found my little shergo-not just last week, and only a few miles from my backyard. It was still sitting on top of my monitor when I read your message and saw your great looking image. It prompted me to share my image with you. And, as in your image, I placed a small slice of DaG 476 in front of my Mars-wannabe. For added effect, I placed a larger slice of the DaG 670 stone to the right of my m-wrong. As a rule, I don't hazard a guess about a rock-type based solely on an image. Too many times I've had to change my opinion about a rock-type after examining a cut surface. So, if you show me the inside of your rock, I'll show you the inside of my rock! ;-) It's true. I haven't cut my little rock, yet. And to be truthful, I haven't had it examined by an expert, so I can't say with 100% certainty that my rock is a shergo-not. Wouldn't I be emabarassed if I was wrong, and my wrong wasn't? Bob V. --- Original Message [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Graham Christensen voltage at telus.net Thu Apr 7 05:21:16 EDT 2005 Hello list I've had this rock sitting on my kitchen table since last year when I picked it up along the side of the road while out for a walk. It is a fairly smooth green rock with black bits in it and it looks somewhat like my DAG 476 shergottite but it's a slightly lighter shade of green. I have yet to grind an end off to see what the inside looks like but there are a couple chips out of it and it looks about the same on the inside with the green part being fine grained and the black bits are individual crystals. I doubt that it is meteoritic (there is no trace of fusion crust) but I was wondering if it might be similar to a shergottite but of terrestrial origin. Here is a pic of it: http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter/dag476andunidentified.jpg The small slice in the forground is my DAG 476 and the big rock is of course the rock in question. I have been collecting rocks on and off in this area since I was a kid and I haven't seen anything like it but that doesn't mean much. I live in Alberta, Canada, where most of the rocks you find lying on the ground were brought down from various locations by the glaciers of the last ice age so it's kind of a potluck dinner of geology up here. I won't get my hopes up, but I certainly wouldn't mind copying Bob Verish and finding out I've been sitting on a mars meteorite for a year!! :-) Any comments are greatly appreciated Graham ~ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Google Maps
Very good. If you type in 'AZ 86047' Then you can find 'meteor crater' (you need to search around a bit). Not bad, shame the resolution isn't great. But could maybe be a handy tool to find other impact structures... Mark -Original Message- From: Marc Fries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 4:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Maps Howdy Ok, this is pretty cool: http://maps.google.com/ Google has developed a seamless map database that cross-links to satellite photos. I scrolled this thing from Manacouagan crater to Wetumpka crater, then out to Hawaii and visited my current home and my mom's house on the way. This is actually a pretty spectacular site for locating physical landform features and cross-referencing them to a road map. I can see my house from here! Enjoy, MDF -- Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] British Museum
Tracy, and Stan, Sara Russell is usually the best one to contact, but she has been off sick on and off recently due to the fact that she is apparently expecting a baby. Monica Grady is also there. But note: None of them usually respond to emails1 - They get so many that they tend not to answer them! It's best to phone them, some details here: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/mineralogy/collections/meteor.htm Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: tracy latimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] British Museum I'd like that information as well; I'm going to be in London this fall and wouldn't mind a look at some of the undisplayed meteorites. Is Dr. Monica Grady still curating the meteorites there? Tracy Latimer From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] British Museum Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:30:48 + Can anyone recomend a contact at the musuem of natural history in London that one could speak with to get a 'behind the scenes' tour of the musuems collection while in town??? TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] crusing for a brusing
Hi, I heard a rumour, that some of the mission scientists who devised the Deep impact's copper projectile (that will impact the comet), may have completely misinterpreted the mean density of the comet, and there is a very real possibility that it may actually completely shatter the comet into several pieces!! Apparently they made quite a few educated guesses since not a great deal is known about the physical structure of the material. The other interesting thing is that the change in the dust trail from the comet should be quite pronounced, so amateurs may be able to actually observe the impact using telescopes! Should be fun! Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:50 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] crusing for a brusing Or crusing TO a brusing, if you will. http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005/mar/HQ_05086_deep_impact.html Dolores Beasley Headquarters, Washington (Phone: 202/358-1753) D.C. Agle Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. (Phone: 818/ 393-9011) March 25, 2005 RELEASE: 05-086 NASA Releases Deep Impact Mission Status Report NASA's Deep Impact spacecraft completed the commissioning phase of the mission and has moved into the cruise phase. Deep Impact mission planners have separated the spacecraft's flight operations into five mission phases. Cruise phase will continue until about 60 days before the encounter with comet Tempel 1 on July 4, 2005. Soon after launch on Jan. 12, 2005, Deep Impact entered the commissioning phase. During that phase, the mission team verified the basic state of health of all subsystems and tested the operation of science instruments. The spacecraft's autonomous navigation system was activated and tested using the moon and Jupiter as targets. The spacecraft's high gain antenna, which will relay images and data of the cometary collision, was activated and is operating properly. A trajectory correction maneuver was performed, refining the spacecraft's flight path to comet Tempel 1. The maneuver was so successful that a second one planned for March 31 was cancelled. Another event during commissioning phase was the bake-out heating of the spacecraft's High Resolution Instrument (HRI) to remove normal residual moisture from its barrel. The moisture was a result of absorption into the structure of the instrument during the vehicle's last hours on the launch pad and its transit through the atmosphere to space. At completion of the bake-out procedure, test images were taken through the HRI. These images indicate the telescope has not reached perfect focus. A special team has been formed to investigate the performance and to evaluate activities to bring the telescope the rest of the way to focus. Future calibration tests will provide additional information about the instruments' performance. The Deep Impact spacecraft has four data collectors to observe the effects of the collision: a camera and infrared spectrometer comprise the High Resolution Instrument; a Medium Resolution Instrument (MRI); and a duplicate camera on the Impactor Targeting Sensor (ITS). They will record the vehicle's final moments before it is run over by comet Tempel 1 at approximately 23,000 mph. The MRI and ITS are performing as expected. This in no way will affect our ability to impact the comet on July 4, said Rick Grammier, Deep Impact project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, Calif. Everyone on the science and engineering teams is getting very excited and looking forward to the encounter. Dr. Michael A'Hearn of the University of Maryland, College Park, Md., added, We are very early in the process of examining the data from all the instruments. It appears our infrared spectrometer is performing spectacularly, and even if the spatial resolution of the High Resolution Instrument remains at present levels, we still expect to obtain the best, most detailed pictures of a comet ever taken. Deep Impact is comprised of two parts, a flyby spacecraft and a smaller impactor. The impactor will be released into the comet's path for the planned high-speed collision. The crater produced by the impactor is expected to range from the width of a house up to the size of a football stadium and be from two to 14 stories deep. Ice and dust debris will be ejected from the crater revealing the material beneath. Along with the imagers aboard the spacecraft, NASA's Hubble, Spitzer and Chandra space telescopes, along with the largest telescopes on Earth, will observe the effects of the material flying from the comet's newly formed crater. An intimate glimpse beneath the surface of a comet, where material and debris from the formation of the solar system remain relatively unchanged, will answer basic questions about the formation of the solar system. The effects of the collision will offer a better look at the nature and composition
[meteorite-list] First light directly detected from an extrasolar planet
This was Interesting.. http://www.carnegieinstitution.org/news_releases/news_0503_23.html First light detected from an extrasolar planet Washington D.C. Most of the 150 known extrasolar planets are discovered and studied through techniques such as finding the telltale wobble of a star tugged by an orbiting planet, or the blink of a star as a planet passes in front of it. Now for the first time scientists have observed an extrasolar planet through the light it emits in the infrared. I feel we've been blind and have just been given sight, commented co-author of the study* Dr. Sara Seager of the Carnegie Institution. Detecting light from these other worlds is very exciting. It opens a whole new window on these objects. It's the beginning of our ability to study their temperature, and composition, she added. The study, published in the March 23 on-line edition of Nature, used measurements from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, an infrared observatory launched in August 2003. Results of the work are announced today at NASA headquarters. The planet, HD 209458b, is a so-called hot Jupiter-a massive gaseous world that orbits very closely to its parent star in only 3.5 days. It has not yet been possible to see these planets in the visible part of the spectrum because the light from the star vastly outshines that from the planet. However in the infrared, the planets show up more brightly than they do at visible wavelengths, making them detectable. As Seager explained: This planet was discovered indirectly in 1999 and was later found to transit its star-the star dims as the planet moves in front of it during the course of the planet's orbit. With Spitzer, we first measured the combined light of the planet and star just before the planet went out of sight. Then when the planet was out of view, we measured how much energy the star emitted on its own. The difference between those readings told us how much the planet emitted. The results of the measurements agreed with models created to determine how much infrared radiation hot Jupiters are likely to emit. HD 209458b was found to be a scorching 1,574 F (1130 K), confirming that hot Jupiters are in fact intensely baked by their stars. More at http://www.carnegieinstitution.org/news_releases/news_0503_23.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs...
Light hearted question and a bit of word fun, Someone has just asked me an interesting question, what do you call a 'potential meteorite' that is not yet a 'meteoright' or a 'meteorwrong' After a couple of minutes with a theasaurus : Some idea's: Meteormaybe Meteorcouldbe Meteormightbe Meteorpossible Meteorunsure Meteorisky Meteorchance Meteocandidate meteorsuspect I think 'meteormaybe' has the edge, but any other thoughts!? Mark (who's clearly got nothing better to do :) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs...
Ha wonderful!! ... A bit of optimism that's what I like! -Original Message- From: Tom Knudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:50 PM To: mark ford; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs... Mark, these are all good, but, you are not thing positive enough, how about meteor-hopeful? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm http://fstop.proboards24.com/ - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 8:44 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs... Light hearted question and a bit of word fun, Someone has just asked me an interesting question, what do you call a 'potential meteorite' that is not yet a 'meteoright' or a 'meteorwrong' After a couple of minutes with a theasaurus : Some idea's: Meteormaybe Meteorcouldbe Meteormightbe Meteorpossible Meteorunsure Meteorisky Meteorchance Meteocandidate meteorsuspect I think 'meteormaybe' has the edge, but any other thoughts!? Mark (who's clearly got nothing better to do :) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs...
Yep meteormight fits with 'meteorite and meteorwrong' nicely... Good work lads! Any others? -Original Message- From: Chauncey Walden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:05 PM To: mark ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] metorwrongs... Mark, I like the sound of meteormight; if you say it fast enough it becomes more definite. Chauncey mark ford wrote: Light hearted question and a bit of word fun, Someone has just asked me an interesting question, what do you call a 'potential meteorite' that is not yet a 'meteoright' or a 'meteorwrong' After a couple of minutes with a theasaurus : Some idea's: Meteormaybe Meteorcouldbe Meteormightbe Meteorpossible Meteorunsure Meteorisky Meteorchance Meteocandidate meteorsuspect I think 'meteormaybe' has the edge, but any other thoughts!? Mark (who's clearly got nothing better to do :) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Ad-Announcing a New German Iron Meteorite!
C'mon guys, get it classified before you say it is definitely a meteorite! -Original Message- From: Arizona Skies Meteorites [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:18 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad-Announcing a New German Iron Meteorite! Hello everyone! We are extremely pleased to announce a New German Iron meteorite! This is only the 12th iron meteorite to ever be found in Germany and it is a spectacular, sculpted specimen. We are leaving it in an 'as found' condition for now with the exception of windowing a small area and etching it. Surprisingly, it has a brilliant micro-etch pattern somewhat reminescent to our New NWA 2428! We are accepting offers and you can check out this unique German iron on our website. Cheers -John Dawn Arizona Skies Meteorites http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] chondrules not primary nebula objects
Yes there are LOTS of assumptions in that paper! ... Mark -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:20 PM To: David Weir Cc: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] chondrules not primary nebula objects On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:28:46 -0500, David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, I wanted to share the following abstract from the 2005 LPSC, which stands out as one of the most interesting to me: Wow. So that three seperate recent papers on chondrules that all disagree with each other! (The other two being gamma rays did it and Jupiter did it.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] loupes (and 'scope?)
Hi Steve and List EVERYONE should at least have a 10x lupe, an illuminated magnifier and a preferably a scope, otherwise how the hell can you tell what you are buying!??? Imho it's the basic fundamental equipment for the hobby - go buy it. As far as lupes go, get one with a large diameter lense and a clear base that lets light in the side, some of them are next to useless because the object is in shadow when you look into it, or better still one with a small light in it. You don't need much magnification, too much mag can be useless. These ones are expensive, but these looked good (scroll down to illuminated lupes) http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/lenses.htm Or this sort of thing on ebay is good too http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=31416item=5564 684315rd=1 Best wishes, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting : is it legal ?
Yes but.. I bet 90% of material in our collections was collected from land owned by someone else, or not declared (I bet most of the PF's collected in the streets weren't declared to the US government, for exapmple) It just goes with the territory, most geological specimens are extracted from sites, without the owners permission, we probably wouldn't have the science of geology at all if people had thought twice about collecting rocks. The alternative is few meteorites for sale at high prices and next to none available for research, that would do no-one any good! Rescue it from the deserts before it disappears I say! MF __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] All These Worlds Are Yours, Except Europa. Attempt No Landing There.
Dear ESA/NASA, Please consider buying a $20 webcam with a little more resolution than the one YOU selected for Huygens ;) Mark -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:22 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] All These Worlds Are Yours,Except Europa. Attempt No Landing There. The monolith makers aren't going to be happy with this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/science/nature/4347571.stm Monday, 14 March, 2005, 13:16 GMT Europe tells US: 'Come to Europa' By Jonathan Amos BBC News science reporter The next big cooperative European-US space mission will be to Europa, the ice-crusted moon of Jupiter. A joint working team is being set up to consider what sort of spacecraft would be needed and what each side could do. Officials in Washington and Paris are keen to follow up the spectacular success of Cassini-Huygens at Saturn. It was a beautiful marriage and we really are looking to do a repeat, said Professor David Southwood, from the European Space Agency (Esa). Southwood told the BBC News website that Europe could do Europa on its own, but that a cooperative venture was extremely attractive. It's a natural for the next big international collaboration in space Prof Fred Taylor, Oxford University Many scientists agree that Europa is now a high priority target for a major mission. The moon, discovered by Galileo, is slightly smaller than the Earth's Moon. Its covering of white and brownish-tinted ice is riven with cracks that are probably the result of stressing caused by the contorting tidal effects of Jupiter's strong gravity. Researchers speculate that tidal heating may even have produced vast oceans of water under the ice sheet and that this environment could harbour micro-organisms. Convenient time The Esa director of science held discussions about Europa with counterparts at the US space agency (Nasa) at the end of last week. I've definitely piqued their interest, he said. The discussions are at a very early stage - and a mission that would launch no earlier than 2016 is some way off becoming a reality. Nevertheless, Professor Southwood said it was a good time to consider how the two agencies could build on their Saturn experience, which has produced stunning images of the ringed planet and put a lander on the surface of Titan. EUROPA - MOON OF JUPITER Orbit: 670,900km from Jupiter Diameter: 3,138km Discovered by Galileo and Marius in 1610 Ice crust may be many tens of km deep The Americans had planned to go to Europa independently with their Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (Jimo). But the ambitious project, which would have used a nuclear propulsion system, has been shelved as Nasa re-focuses its budget on a White House initiative that could take humans back to the Moon. As a consequence, the European suggestion of a joint mission to Europa has been favourably entertained. As with Cassini-Huygens, Southwood envisages the new mission incorporating a double-spacecraft architecture. Surface imperative You've got to have a relay satellite, he explained. You go together; you fly out there in tandem. They separate after Jupiter orbit insertion and then you leave the relay satellite in orbit around Jupiter, preferably in a resonance with Europa. Then there's a debate about what you do at Europa. Personally, I would like deep-penetrating radar [on an orbiter]. But that's because I'm a remote-sensing man. I believe you get more by getting the global picture than you do by scratching and sniffing the surface. But the pressure to go down to Europa's cracked and blotchy surface would be immense, said Professor John Zarnecki, the principal investigator on the surface science instruments loaded on to Huygens for its Titan descent. If it is technically feasible to go to the surface, you would want to do that. Huygens' surface image on Titan says everything, the Open University researcher enthused. But, it may be that what you want to do - to look below Europa's ice - you can do that better from orbit. The Esa-Nasa group that's going to be set up will look at just these sorts of technical issues, added Professor Zarnecki, who has been party to the initial trans-Atlantic discussions. Power needs Researchers at the German Aerospace Centre are already developing a prototype technology that could be used to melt through Europa's ice sheet. Any water might be a considerable (and possibly unreachable) way down - 20-30km down. Once under the sheet, the probe would take samples and drop mass to begin a slow climb back up the ice column. On the surface, it could then send data to an orbiter or relay satellite for onward transmission to Earth. DEVELOPING SPACE TECHNOLOGY Melting through Europa's ice Europe already has a major mission en route to Jupiter's orbit - the Rosetta mission, which will chase down a comet and put a lander on its surface. This has
RE: [meteorite-list] Spirit Gets A Dust Devil Once-Over
Turns out that a martian whirlwind - dubbed a dust devil - likely zoomed rover the robot high up in the Columbia Hills. That fleeting flyby ffectively cleaned Spirit's solar arrays, giving the robot a new lease n life. Engineers report that the rover's power reading quickly shot up to most as high as when the rover landed on Mars over a year ago. My God, how lucky are these rovers??!! (All we need now is for a meteorite to blast the rover off the surface and return it back to Earth, along with a few rocks... :) Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 6:47 AM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Gets A Dust Devil Once-Over http://space.com/missionlaunches/spirit_dust_050312.html Spirit Gets A Dust Devil Once-Over By Leonard David space.com 12 March 2005 Mars scientists and engineers are elated about a dust-busting blast that has struck the Spirit rover at its Gusev crater exploration site. Turns out that a martian whirlwind - dubbed a dust devil - likely zoomed over the robot high up in the Columbia Hills. That fleeting flyby effectively cleaned Spirit's solar arrays, giving the robot a new lease on life. Engineers report that the rover's power reading quickly shot up to almost as high as when the rover landed on Mars over a year ago. Gusev: Alive with dust devils Rover scientists suspected something was up at the Gusev site when Spirit's wheel tracks were disappearing. Onboard cameras could look down and see the tracks vanishing. Rover team members assumed that the site was experiencing a heavy dust loading in the atmosphere. Indeed, the rover's energy quickly dropped. Seeing the robot's decreasing power level, controllers started to consider cutting back on rover Mars work. Gusev was alive with dust devils, explained one scientist familiar with rover operations. But suddenly Spirit's available energy rocketed to a high level. The plus-up in power, team members believe, was due to a whirlwind passing right over the robot, removing the dust that had collected on its solar cells. Martian squeegee men The impact of the devilish dust-off was significant. The noon solar output from the panels went from a 40 percent loss to just 7 percent, said rover science team member, Larry Crumpler, a research curator in volcanology and space sciences at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science in Albuquerque. Images of the panels taken later showed beautiful dark panels, Crumpler explained. And all the wires and edges on the [rover] deck have little dust tails. I think it might have been the Martian squeegee men. Either that or one heck of a buffeting by a dust devil, he said. Spirit has been busy wrapping up a spectacular panorama from the vantage point of Larry's Lookout. Miracle cleaning event Earlier this month, lead investigator for the Mars Exploration Rover mission, Steve Squyres of Cornell University, noted that Spirit's depleted power was reducing the number of hours per day available to snap photos. Squyres couldn't gauge the chance of what he called a miracle cleaning event - akin to what occurred months ago on Opportunity, its sister robot on the other side of Mars. If it happens, I'll take it! We have to assume the worst - that the solar panels are going to stay dirty and just get dirtier, Squyres told SPACE.com at the time. As to what caused Opportunity's solar panels at Meridiani Planum to become cleaned is a puzzle, Squyres said. Wind has to be involved at some level you figure. Frost might have helped. A frost build-up on arrays could coagulate the dust - but the fact is that we don't understand it very well. But I'll take it. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] New Orleans meteorite bits on Ebay
Yep, It's very friable, but the real deal... MF -Original Message- From: Jason Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 3:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Orleans meteorite bits on Ebay Hello Darren and List, Yes, this person is legitimate. His name is Alexander Falster and he is one of the principle researchers on the New Orleans meteorite from the University of New Orleans. Here is a web page dedicated to the fall: http://www.uno.edu/%7Ewsimmons/pub/meteor/meteor.html He is a very nice person and I was actually able purchase the remaining material that he had from this fall last week. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com Darren Garrison wrote: I've been noticing the seller with these bits of New Orleans meteorte for a while now. Do you think these are authentic? He doesn't have an IMCA number and there never seem to be (as far as I've noticed) anyone else selling any part of New Orleans, so I'm unconvinced. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: RE: Polishing slices?
Yes, I'd like to add to that, always wear a mask when sanding rocks!!! - 10,000 miners can't be wrong (mainly because they are dead from silicosis). In my experience once you have achieved the desired result, it is VERY important to clean the surface of the rock, since dust sits in the crevices and hides the detail. I have often wiped specimens with an alcohol soaked cloth that have supposedly been prepared by the 'experts' and found the cloth turned black with preparation dust, only to reveal much unseen detail on the slice!, so its worth taking the trouble to clean the rock well after sanding Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:33 AM To: Christian Anger; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: RE: Polishing slices? And addition: Don't forget to clean your fingernails too, if you switch to the next higher grid. A single remaining grain from the coarser powder could disturb the result of the next polishing round. Control with a good magnyfying glass from time to time whether marks from the antecedent coarser grains are visible, if not anymore, you can go on to the next finest grain. I use also the sand papers dry, but for cleaning the slices between the switching to the next grid, I use water or alcool for the more sensible stones. If water, add a little drop of dish-liquid, and use a toothbrush from downwards to the specimen - so the loose grindiding grains and the dust will fall out and easily sink away from the piece. Dry it shortly. This wet cleaning is not so problematic, if you continue immediately with the grinding as the water will fastly volatilize. After the last grinding a good test to see, whether there ist some dust left in the slice is to wipe the surface with some pressure over your leg, which should stuck in a black jeans. You'll see immediately whether it has some dust left or not. But don't tell to mommy... With dry polishing you should use a mask against fine dusts. Cosmic dust in the lungs in not so agreeable, especially not the nickle from the iron meteorites. Those masks aren't expensive and should be found in each DIY store. Don't mix them up, with those for only hygienic purposes, those are not suitable. All in all a hard work, but by hand one can produce a perfect polish with small means. Happy working! Martin - Original Message - From: Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Meteoryt.net' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:47 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: RE: Polishing slices? Disagreement ! I also lay the sanding papers on a flat glass which has the same effect of producing a flat surface on the sample. I do not have rounded edges on my specimens. Also it is wrong to move the face of the probe in circles. You have to describe an 8 when moving the sample across the grains or paper - that's the real polishing technique. I also do NOT produce scratches. You have to take care not to withdraw grinding material from the coarser grinding papers to the next lower grinding grain size paper. Keep your sanding papers clean. Store every sanding paper extra, be careful and make the job with patience and love. I do not have the difficulties what Marcin is talking about. And diamond powders or pastes are expensive too. The technique I use only takes time. I own years of experience in polishing by using sanding paper and I also use it DRY - without any fluid (water, alcohol etc...) - I think nobody expected this - but that's my experience and it works - works very well and I have best results - without any scratches. You just have to learn it. Experience is all. It is a lot of work, for sure, but this belongs to curating a collection too, for me, at least. Cheers and good night, Christian __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Oriented chondrules?
Darren and list, I have seen Some pieces of NWA 869 that have similar oriented Chondrules, (even though some people have classified it as a 3.8), maybe its due to some sort of early impact deformation, otherwise you would you not expect the chondrules to be a lot more indistinct? ... Interesting thread this! Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Graham Christensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:31 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented chondrules? Hi Darren Chondritic meteorites come from asteroids that aren't quite large enough to have completely melted, but usually still large enough to cause some thermal alteration. The heat that was present might have made the chondrules sufficiently pliable that they squished into oval shapes due to the downward pressure from the material that was above it in its parent asteroid. Or, possibly the chondrules were already elongated but the pressure from above caused them to settle that way while the matrix was still soft. Just throwing out ideas, Graham ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 11:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented chondrules? (Sorry, last question of the night.) Anyone know anything about oriented chondrules in a meteorite? I was looking at the scan of that condrite that I had shown in the question about polishing (thanks to all who gave advise, by the way) and noticed that, for objects in the matrix that are oblong, the long axises of a large percentage of them seem to be aligned in a prefered direction rather than point in random directions. Here is the base image: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/base_image.jpg And one with arrows added to a few of the larger objects. Many other chondrules seem to tend to be aligned in the same direction. http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/flow_direction.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Oriented chondrules?
True, I suppose it could be some sort of 'flow effect', as the finer matrix material interspersed with the Chondrules, presumably when the whole rock coagulated it would have been very loose (and hot) at first before being compacted under the mass of rock. Perhaps Oriented Chondrules originate as part of much larger bodies than the non-orientated ones . I wonder if some sand and a few small round pebbles could be used to simulate the effect in some way?... You often get oriented pebbles in terresrial Eocene cliff deposits, where the stones are all aligned, maybe a similar process is going on (the stones behaving like large chondrules) Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:41 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented chondrules? On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:31:02 -0700, Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Darren Chondritic meteorites come from asteroids that aren't quite large enough to have completely melted, but usually still large enough to cause some thermal alteration. The heat that was present might have made the chondrules sufficiently pliable that they squished into oval shapes due to the downward pressure from the material that was above it in its parent asteroid. Or, possibly the chondrules were already elongated but the pressure from above caused them to settle that way while the matrix was still soft. Just throwing out ideas, Graham Possible, I suppose. But look at the one elongated chondrule near the top center that is oriented close to 90 degrees differently than the majority of them. That kind of (to me, at least) increases the appearance of some sort of flowing of the material. You know how in a stream of material (water, air) an object will try to line up to cause the least resistance (which would be the majority of the chondrules with the axis pointed in one direction) or, if the angle to the flow is just right, would have the flattest side pushing agaist the flow and would end up aligned perpendicular to the flow. (Much like how a heat shield oriented meteorite forms). Squishing would seem to have a harder time explaining (in my non-expert opinion) how that one chondrite is flattened and aligned in a nearly perpendicular direction. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] John Blennert and Gold Basin
And ... I'd Like to publicly thank John Blennart for donating a nice collection of Gold Basins and others to South downs Planetarium in Chichester, England just before christmas. They were very much appreciated. They are on permanent display, and are enjoyed by visitors to the Planetarium. Very Kind. Best Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:00 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] John Blennert and Gold Basin John wrote: it was found before ... and the folks on this list ever heard of Gold Basin !!! Hello John and List, These words bring back pleasant memories, ... memories from 1999 when I got an email from John after I had posted something about Michael Blood hunting for Gold Basin meteorites. John wrote: I would like to extend a personal invitation for you to hunt Gold Basin. I will loan you a goldmaster metal detector and be your personal guide. I will cook (no guarantees) and get you familiar with the detector, heck I'll even give you a drive around and show you all the known field. I guarantee you'll find a few meteorites if I have to throw them at you? He He. That's assuming you don't have a hearing impairment !!! I know you are a long way from Arizona, but if you could find your way to get here I will try and accomodate anyway I can !! It's very hot there now the best times for hunting are October thru April. If this offer is not workable because of work, wife, kids or finances email me your address and I would love to mail you a nice Gold Basin!! I would be honored to send one to the man that helps so many!! A few days later there were two beautiful specimens (76 and 86 gr) in my mailbox and they were welcomed by a small 31.5 gr specimen with an official field number (UA410) that I had purchased from Allan Lang some time before. John wrote in his letter that most of the Gold Basin finds are broken up pretty bad and that both of these have a good show of crust. That was more than true because they even showed clear signs of primary crust, the 86-gram even signs of a secondary crust; the 76-gram piece has shallow regmaglypts, is conical and may thus be oriented or at least flight-marked from its plunge through the Earth's atmosphere. John, let me once again thank you for these beauties, and, you may be sure that they will never leave the B. Pauli Meteorite Collection, no matter where the wind blows from! Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Quarter of Mars Scientists atEuropean MeetingBelieve Life Possible on Mars
I think the bio-skeptics (like me) will wake up and say 'yes there's life! - when: A)We see it B)someone presents evidence of direct life (not just a cloud of methane) I mean [actual] evidence, collected and presented without any 'funding bias', or vested interest, (like justifying future space programs to congress.) It all sounds an awful lot like they have a theory and are desperately trying to find shreds of evidence to prove it rather than keeping an open mind and seeing what appears. The wrong way to do science. Personally I rekon Mars is about the least likely place for life, but who knows. Thing is, life on earth leaves us clues all over the place, surely we would have detected life on Mars by know. Personally I'd have thought 'Titan the flying chemistry set, would be the best bet. Least it has an ATMOSPHERE! Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: David Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 11:46 PM To: Francis Graham Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Quarter of Mars Scientists atEuropean MeetingBelieve Life Possible on Mars Dear Francis, List; And I follow this thread by asking Dear Great God of the universe, please let there be banded irons and stromatolites on Mars. Humbledave F. ebay user ID mjwy Francis Graham wrote: --- Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy A friendly hello to all concerned with this perplexing issue, Keep me off that list, even if the NASA Astrobiology Institute is paying my bills nowadays. Methane can be produced by geology, formaldehyde is a natural by-product of methane in Mars' viciously oxidizing environment, and hexaoctahedral magnetite can be produced abiotically. All correct, I can't argue. But the argument runs that these events are more-or-less independent abiotically (except for the formaldehyde-methane link) , and not so if biology is involved, so the biological origin is increasingly more probable. Keep in mind that was McKay et al's argument in ALH 84001: these things are all in the same rock, and their association would be improbable if they were abiotic, although each might be produced somehow abiotically. The counter to that was: well, we have only one rock as an example. My remarks meant to look to the future of this issue. More news came out in today's Aviation Week. It turns out, according to the article, that Elysium seems to be an ice lake the size of the North Sea on Mars, covered by volcanic ash. (Elysium is visible as an albedo feature from Earth ) And they report the methane is enhanced over it, exactly as it should be if biology in the underlying ground water were a factor, but only coincidentally if geology were. This is a serious question with a thousand important implications, and We can't accept a partial answer or rushed judgement to it either way. I could not agree more that a healthy scientific skepticism is in order here. But, as future evidence comes in, should we cling to nonbiological interpretations with desparation? What is the criteria for saying, Gee. It sure looks like Mars has or had some sort of biology. ? If it is required that all possible nonbiological ad-hoc explanations be comprehensively disproven then it may take some time to get there. Is that what you are saying? It would be OK to say that, IF the implications of even a tentative conclusion about life on Mars (and all science is tentative) were so abhorrent that we must not embrace it unless forced to. Are the implications of saying microbiotic life is probable on Mars so abhorrent that we must not think it unless forced to? And why? You may well be correct that we may not be to the point yet of saying life exists or existed on Mars. But: the news comes in as you say, daily (and faster than the journals can print it) so at what level do we say so? What are the lines to be crossed? And: can we not now today speak of at least probabilities? You must admit, the probabilities look better and better, and as the probability of biology increases, things begin to fit together, and the probability of a lifeless contrary Mars decreases. True, I am a little troubled by some things on a biological Mars model that don't quite fit, but they can be explained by a biology on Mars that is barely hanging on, as did Earth's biology during some of the equator-to-pole freezes of our own Archaean and Proterozoic times. Except on Mars it has been so for billions of years. Of course, if Mars had anything like a visible biosphere above the surface this issue would not even be here. We are really indirectly looking into dark water-filled crevices below the cryosphere with sniffing instruments. We can indeed reach tentative conclusions in science by indirect evidence. If Mars' deep life is chemosynthetic in crevices underground, the kind of absolute solid direct proof many desire may not be forthcoming ever at all, and the indirect evidence may be it. I can
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Diamonds and Minerals
Hi, I was interested to read in the current issue of Meteorite mag, that they have discovered a mineral even harder than Diamond, some sort of impact mineral I think, anyone got any further info? Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dho 025 lunar
Hi, Dave Harris asked me to post this... Anyone have any thoughts regarding the nature of the vesicular clasts in the lunar Dho 025? Looks like a black pumice stone inclusion! The clasts themseves are a couple of mm across and contain numerous little bubbles/vesicles. I was wondering where the vesicles come from, what gases were trapped and so on ! Any thoughts anyone? Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] what the heck is up with dho 007?
Stan, I've got a large slice of this, its really great stuff, the metal inclusions are very odd, I can never get how the metal stayed as evenly spaced metallic flecks when the whole matrix was clearly very molten. There was a discussion on this a year or so back so maybe search the archives... They did initially theorize/suspect it may be of 'mercury type orbit' in origin due to the anomalous oxygen content which would appear to put it closer to the sun than some of the others. Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: stan . [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:37 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] what the heck is up with dho 007? what the heck is going on with dho 007? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6512405 947rd=1 this guy says researchers are speculating the material is from mercury - I did a quick google and found that Yamaguchi et al DID report that it's an anaomolous eucrite and may infact be a mesosiderite! http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1377.pdf so what would the apropriate name for this material be? if it isnt related to other HED meteorites it isnt a eucrite anymore, right? and it certainly wouldnt be a stony iron messosiderite, unless that term now applies to rocks with .1% stone - so what would we call this stuff, just an anaomolous eucrite? Anyone have any more links / papers about this material? TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: AW: [meteorite-list] Is Brahin a ruster ?
Lars, Putting meteorites into acrylic blocks, doesn't seem to stop them rusting, there will always be residual moisture and salts in the matrix, you need to chemically treat it to have any chance of halting the corrosion. I put a slab of H Chondrite into resin several years ago and it immediately went brown like rust! - there must have been some reaction with the plastic. Mark -Original Message- From: Lars Pedersen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:17 PM To: M come Meteorite Meteorites; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Is Brahin a ruster ? Yes maybe it should be put into some kind of acrylic resin. Does anyone know what to use, and how to do it. It is a 530 gram full slice aprox. 21 x 17 centimeters. Just a thin layer ? Or a block like you sometine see seascales in a acrylic block ? Best Lars - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:05 PM Subject: Re: AW: [meteorite-list] Is Brahin a ruster ? For me the unique method for save the pallasites from rusty is put this into a acrilic resin without air. Matteo --- Jörn Koblitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hi List, back in the 1980s, I got a large, beautiful Admire slice. I kept it at low humidity and also added corrosion inhibitor to the bag in which the slice was wrapped in. During the first 10 years I checked for signs of rust from time to time. It was okay, no rust, very stable. So, I kept it alone (same storage conditions) until one year ago, when I look at it again. Well, the pallasite was in the state of disintegration, heavily rusted, olivines pressed out of the metal grid. What I want to say is, that even after so long time of stability, one can never be sure. I think, one has to check the state of such a known ruster more often. If any sign of rust, especially swallowing of olivine grains, one has to start corrective actions immediately (e.g. neutralization of acids, drying...). Rusting is a self-accelerating process, once it has started. If a meteorite is known as a ruster (like Brahin, Brenham, Admire), be very careful! I am presently developing a special method of treatment to remove all the salts (the source of the mess) from such corrosion sensitive irons and pallasite specimens. I hope, with such reatment, then these rusters are sufficiently stabilized for the time being. Jörn -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 7. Februar 2005 23:35 An: Lars Pedersen; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Brahin a ruster ? Hi Lars, Brahin is untreated a hefty ruster like Brenham. With two of the main suppliers of Brahin I made the experience that Afanasjev (cometshop) did a good job in varnishing his slices. My oldest slice from him I had for almost 7 years without any problems and many others I had in stock for 2years and more without developping a single trace of rust. Once I was curios, grinded off the varnish and the slice started to rust and to swell within a few weeks. From the other supplier Koutyrev (finmet) I know only, that he advertized his slices in former times to be stabilized with a new method and with the gimmick, that you can keep them even in salt water without any effect. I never took from his Brahins, but heard from several of my collector fellows as well as from some dealers too, that they were indeed stable and goody-goody. To be sure, one should choose a member of the Eagle-Station-grouplet, with their 15%+ Ni, they should be the most stable ones among all pallasites, but they are difficult to get and not even cheap... Cheers! Martin - Original Message - From: Lars Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 8:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is Brahin a ruster ? Hello All Thanks for you show reports and poictures, I enjoy them. I have just traded for a big fullslice of Brahin. Is it a ruster ? How do I prevent ? etc. etc. ? Best Lars -- New meteorite forum: http://www.worldofmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = M come
RE: [meteorite-list] Nice CAI in a CV3
Really interesting CAI! Does anyone know if it is possible to dissolve away the matrix of a CV and leave the CAI? I know at the BNHM Sara Russel had a vial of diamonds from Allende. Best Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky etching
I agree, this etching shows that the metal cooled way too quickly, and even seems to illustrate how it was made, chunks of Iron/Nickel etc were dropped into molten Iron, the large chunks that show up when etched are probably the very same iron chunks that never quite mixed into the rest of the metal, hence you get 'Zoning' when etched MF -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky etching My question is what it is ? Why this pattern looks like this ? http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/shirokovsky_112a.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/shirokovsky_112b.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/shirokovsky_112c.jpg http://www.meteoryt.net/ebay/shirokovsky_112d.jpg Hello All, A genuine Widmannstätten pattern can only develop if the cooling process is long and slow enough. This Shirokovsky pseudopallasite cooled too quickly. Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] all most OT; WW2 stuff?
Indeed - A classic book! I always liked this article about him http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:12 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] all most OT; WW2 stuff? On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:52:25 -, mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, they used Kingman as an airfield / trash can. Just a word of caution when searching WW2 airfields and Cold war airfields, watch out for Radioactive 'Radium Paint containers', (and their associated rubbish burning places), they used to repaint Radium instruments and then burn all the left over junk, leaving radioactive debris all over the place Or look FOR it. Build your own nuclear reactor! The non-fiction book The Radioactive Boyscout needs a good sequel http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=mHu18 HYiBYisbn=037550351Xitm=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfrom radio shack
Hi Bob, Well to be honest I just shove a few table spoonfuls into a pint of distilled water, (i.e. unchlorinated water) and stir. The best stuff to use really though, is 'Sodium Hydroxide', which is sold in hardware stores to unblock drains etc. otherwise known as caustic soda, (at least here in the UK..) this can be added to industrial alcohol, (it will dissolve but it takes hours!) or you could use sodium hydroxide with water, but you must dry the specimen well, in a warm place for a number of hours then coat the iron in plenty of gun oil, (which contains a rust inhibitor). It's not perfect, but it works, etching anything is a destructive process. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Bob King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:01 AM To: mark ford Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfrom radio shack Hi Mark, I plan on doing some etching with ferric chloride and have read your postings with interest. Tell me though, how do you prepare the sodium bicarbonate solution? Thanks! Bob Subject:RE: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfromradio shack Date sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:32:09 - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Ferric Chloride has been used for many years for etching meteorites. (I personally etched a small Canyon Diablo in about 1985 and it has never shown any signs of rust). Iv'e even etched campos in Ferric, and they are fine too. You must neutralize the iron after etching however, in Sodium hydroxide solution (caustic soda) or Sodium bicarbonate soln.) It is important to clean the meteorite and remove all traces of etchant. And etch as quickly as possible (I.E concentrated and warm) so that the solution doesn't have time to penetrate into the meteorite. Nitric acid is used for etching as well, this has it's own problems with stability, In either case, as long as you take care to neutralize it, then It should give no problems. Personally I have found Ferric Chloride to give a far better quality of etch, even under mag it is noticeable. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Göran Axelsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:17 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfrom radio shack I thought that the general idea was chlorine and iron makes rusting meteorites. I wouldn't use it myself. I used some to etch circuit boards in my youth and if you drop some grains of iron chloride it will pull moisture from the air until it's completely dissolved. If you dip an iron into FeCl solution it will be drawn into dry fractures and surfaces and to get it out without electrolysis is probably really slow work. Am I wrong in my speculations? Anyone tested this already? I use the alcohol and nitric acid etch. Not only because I have it handy, but also to avoid chlorine contaminations. /Göran harlan trammell wrote: i thought i'd try it on a cheap iron- anybody got any pointers on swabbing, rinsing , waiting, etc.?! i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of storage). please cc to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Slightly OT: latest asteroid naming batch
The original Radio series is by far the best! imho -Original Message- From: David Hardy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:43 PM To: Matson, Robert; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slightly OT: latest asteroid naming batch I saw recently where Hitchhiker's will be coming out in a movie next summer. Should be better than the BBC's series! DH --- Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Thought I'd share this as I know a number of you are fans of the author. I'm very pleased to report that _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe_ author Douglas Adams has had an asteroid named after him in this month's Minor Planet Center naming batch: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6867061 While visiting Boston a year and half ago, I stopped in to see Brian Marsden and most of the primary staff at the MPC at Harvard. Among the things we talked about were some deserving people who had not yet been honored with an asteroid namesake. Douglas Adams was on my short list (and/or some of his more colorful book characters). As mentioned in the article above, Arthur Dent had already been taken care of -- just days before Adams died of a heart attack at the young age of 49. I'm especially overjoyed by the choice of asteroid for Adams. The asteroid itself isn't anything special or out of the ordinary, but its preliminary designation is tailor-made for Adams: 2001 DA42. (He died in 2001, and anyone who has read the books knows the significance of the number 42 -- the ultimate answer to the question of life, the universe and everything!) Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list = Here is the price of freedom, your every drop of courage, ounce of pain, pint of blood. Paid in advance. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfrom radio shack
Ferric Chloride has been used for many years for etching meteorites. (I personally etched a small Canyon Diablo in about 1985 and it has never shown any signs of rust). Iv'e even etched campos in Ferric, and they are fine too. You must neutralize the iron after etching however, in Sodium hydroxide solution (caustic soda) or Sodium bicarbonate soln.) It is important to clean the meteorite and remove all traces of etchant. And etch as quickly as possible (I.E concentrated and warm) so that the solution doesn't have time to penetrate into the meteorite. Nitric acid is used for etching as well, this has it's own problems with stability, In either case, as long as you take care to neutralize it, then It should give no problems. Personally I have found Ferric Chloride to give a far better quality of etch, even under mag it is noticeable. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Göran Axelsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:17 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] etching irons with ferric chloride solutionfrom radio shack I thought that the general idea was chlorine and iron makes rusting meteorites. I wouldn't use it myself. I used some to etch circuit boards in my youth and if you drop some grains of iron chloride it will pull moisture from the air until it's completely dissolved. If you dip an iron into FeCl solution it will be drawn into dry fractures and surfaces and to get it out without electrolysis is probably really slow work. Am I wrong in my speculations? Anyone tested this already? I use the alcohol and nitric acid etch. Not only because I have it handy, but also to avoid chlorine contaminations. /Göran harlan trammell wrote: i thought i'd try it on a cheap iron- anybody got any pointers on swabbing, rinsing , waiting, etc.?! i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of storage). please cc to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Suspected Meteorite Falls in Cambodia
How the hell do you set fire to a rice field? Aren't they under 3ft of water?? Mark -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:57 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspected Meteorite Falls in Cambodia http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/26/content_2511399.htm Suspected meteorite hits Cambodia China View January 26, 2005 PHNOM PENH, Jan. 26 (Xinhuanet) -- A rock weight of about 4.5 kg fell into rice fields on Monday morning in Cambodia's border province Banteay Meanchey causing a fire across paddy fields, local media reported on Wednesday. A hole of 30 cm depth was left by the little bit black-colored rock which local people suspected as a meteorite. And the picture of the rock was published at the front pages of local newspapers Wednesday. According to police chief Sok Sareth, the rock was handed over to police waiting examination by experts. The rock was discovered by the villagers on early Monday morning at about seven o'clock when they heard a tremendous noise like a bomb exploding. Banteay Meanchey province locates more than 300 km northwest ofthe capital Phnom Penh. No people was hurt. It was lucky that it did not land in the village or people could have been killed, Sok Sareth was quoted as saying. - http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1652621,00.htm l Meteor narrowly misses village news24.com (South Africa) January 26, 2005 Phnom Penh - A 4.5kg suspected meteorite has landed in rice fields in northwestern Cambodia, narrowly avoiding a nearby village, police said on Wednesday. The rock fell on a harvested rice field from the sky on Monday morning, said Sok Sareth, police chief of Banteay Meanchey province, which borders Thailand. According to the villagers who live nearby, it came very quickly from the sky and made a noise like a bomb exploding. It dug about 40 centimetres into the ground, he said. The rock is a little bit black and was hot, and looks strange compared to other rocks... It was lucky that it did not land in the village or people could have been killed, he said, adding experts would examine the rock. Pictures of the lump were splashed across the front pages of local newspapers on Wednesday. Sok Sareth said some villagers reportedly wanted to turn it into a shrine. Nobody has asked for it yet, but I have been told some villagers said that they want to put it on a shrine to pray to it, but we won't allow them to do that. It's useless, he said. Cambodians, particularly in rural areas, are typically superstitious. - http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNewsstoryID=660805 Meteorite sparks fires and prayers in Cambodia Reuters January 26, 2005 PHNOM PENH (Reuters) - A 4.5 kg (10 lb) meteorite which landed in a former Khmer Rouge zone of northwest Cambodia has started fires across rice fields and prayers from villagers who saw it as a divine omen of peace. Some farmers are angry with the rock because it caused fires and destroyed several hundred hectares of their paddy fields, said Sok Sareth, police chief of Banteay Meanchey province, around 200 miles northwest of the capital, Phnom Penh. But others asked the police to leave it where it landed and put it on shrine to pray for peace, he told Reuters on Wednesday. The black lump of celestial rock sent villagers scurrying for cover when it thumped into the ground in the war-scarred southeast Asian nation on Monday morning. It made a noise like a bomb exploding, Sok Sareth said. It's a good thing it didn't land in the village or people could have been killed. Pictures of the meteorite were splashed across newspapers in the capital, but the item itself has been carried away by police pending scientific analysis. Initial investigations by explosives experts still clearing the bombs and mines left behind from Cambodia's years of civil war against Pol Pot's guerrillas have not yielded many results. I asked my friend who works as deminer, but he has no idea what the rock is, Sok Sareth said. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Mystery Light Seen Over England
Why is it, that when there are several possibilities do people always have to opt for the least likely? A UFO, could it be that's what they want to believe 'Per chance!!' Snip Now county residents and top boffins have drawn up a list of possible explanations for the phenomenon, including an iridium flare, a burning meteor, a bright search light, aircraft landing lights or even a UFO. She said though she does not usually believe in weird happenings, after seeing the light she thought it could have been a UFO. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Tips on etching?
Hi Bob, There are various mixtures people have suggested. But I have has success with 1 pint of alcohol to a couple of table spoons of caustic. it takes a bit of time for the caustic (sodium hydroxide) to dissolve, but eventually it does. To be honest I don't think it matters exactly how much you use, there is probably an ideal ratio but I just chuck a couple of spoons in and scale the amount (according to the size of iron). If your stabilizing an already rusty iron, then you need to remove the rust first with a brush, and soak for a few weeks at least, changing the mixture when it gets brown. Bucket chemistry but I have campos which are now not rusting that were rusting like bastads before treatments so I can only assume it works! Best Mark -Original Message- From: bob cucchiara [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:22 AM To: mark ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tips on etching? Hi Mark, Could you give me the procedure and formula of how much alcohol to how much caustic soda for soaking bigger irons. I got this from you a while back but cant seem to locate the info. It would be much apprieciated. Thanks Bob C. - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:03 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Tips on etching? Darren, I would use 'Ferric Chloride' solution (available from electronics stores , as it is used for etching electronic circuit boards). Ferric gives a sharper etch and is way safer than Nitric acid. This is the quick way... 1) Polish the iron slice to a deep shine (preferably like a mirror), wash all traces of metal polish, grease etc off with alcohol or hot soap and water (i.e Just make sure it's got no fingerprints or grease on it). 2) Using a cotton wool pad, wash the face to be etched with the ferric chloride so that it becomes covered in a thin layer of the solution. Keep finger prints off the etched face, wait for a few minutes. 3) Repeat as required until you have a decent looking etch, then wash the iron clean in alcohol or hot soapy water to remove all traces of the ferric chloride. 4) Soak the iron in alcohol mixed with a few tablespoons of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) this helps slow down rusting, by neutralizing any remaining acid and rust compounds. 5) Dry in a warm place (warm oven but not too hot) for a few hours. 6) When totally dry add a good coating of gun oil while still slightly warm to help prevent rusting. There are other ways to do this but this way works fine for me, its not rocket science... Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:02 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Tips on etching? I just bought a few Campo slices and would appreciate any tips on the most effective and safest (both to me and the slices) way of etching them. Would I use the glass-etching gel you can buy at craft stores? The Campo slices I bought are right here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6505070004 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Possible Mars meteorite!
Maybe I'm missing something but, that rock looks exactly like all the other volcanic rocks on mars to me - It even has vesicles! Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:42 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Mars meteorite! It's bigger than I had guessed it to be-- I was thinking something in the grapefruit size range, but looking at this photo, it looks much larger than that: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/f/345/1F158809653EFF40DFP12 14L0M1.JPG __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Signal aquired from Huygens
Hi, Just heard, they have received the first signal from the Huygens probe it has entered the atmosphere of Titan exactly as planned. WOW!! THIS COULD BE GOOD! Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Signal aquired from Huygens
The website for info on the mission is http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm But - I've been watching it live at http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/ or via windows media player. http://www.nasa.gov/55644main_NASATV_Windows.asx Best Mark -Original Message- From: J. Hirschmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:26 AM To: mark ford Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Signal aquired from Huygens Hi, from where did you get the info? I watch tv but only soap operas. We are excited and eating our fingernails Joachim Hi, Just heard, they have received the first signal from the Huygens probe it has entered the atmosphere of Titan exactly as planned. WOW!! THIS COULD BE GOOD! Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] OT- Signal aquired from Huygens
If the Huygens mission is a success, this bloke deserves a medal in my book! http://www.esa.int/spacecraftops/ESOC-Article-fullArticle_par-40_1103125 842574.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] A Call For A New Meteorite List
For Christ/creator of universe/natural quantum event, sake can we all grow up! This list is now about the tamest list iv'e ever seen, In many internet lists/newsgroups death threats and swearing are the norm! Whilst I don't enjoy all the personal attacks etc, they have toned down considerably since last year, (when it was getting really annoying). Creating a new list(s) will only divide the meteorite community even further, what we don't need is 10 MORE small international lists, in fact we need more people to came back and join this list! That way we would have a greater diversity of meteorite related chat. Lets, just here and now adopt a voluntary code, of not submitting personal attacks etc, and keeping the postings reasonably meteorite related, then everything will be fine. There are enough problems in the world without getting over dramatic about a poxy mailing list. Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Nice Dronino
Nels and list, Yes but let's not forget that ALL iron meteorites rust, this will affect all pieces if they are not stored in a reasonably dry place... I have even seen rusty Chinga pieces, and that stuff is practially natural stainless steel! Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2004 13:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice Dronino Dear List, I can't see getting any meteorite I have to spend hours fretting over and dipping in solutions et al. There are so many fantastic pieces to be had that just allow you to love'm and stare at them and enjoy them.. Thanks Nels __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
This is exactly why I suggested ages ago that we adopt a standardized
meteorite Record card, then any information follows the piece around.
I do feel the IMCA should step in here, authenticity is paramount in our
field, and confidence is dripping away FAST!
Best,
Mark Ford
-Original Message-
From: John Birdsell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 November 2004 22:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Hi Doug and thanks for the interesting idea. I suppose that could work
if every dealer kept perfect records of every piece, slice, part slice,
and part, part slice that they ever bought or sold. The question then
would be, who would be the Meteorite Auditors to track down the few
offending dealers that may decide to fake a meteorite ID number, say
NWA 123,9,25,3,2 and track it through all the hands that is has passed
and sub-divisions that it has been cut into to verify that it is
really NWA 123,9,25,3,2? What happens if someone along the chain of
custody accidentally transposed the 3 and the 2 in the ID number, and
this got passed down the line? Some end recipient could then be accused
by the Meteorite Auditors of faking the piece after an audit exposed
the problem. Who is going to spend their time trying to resolve this
inevitable issues? I can just see our friends on the Meteorite-List
bickering over whether they have proper claim to NWA 123,9,25, 3,2 or
NWA 123,9,25,2,3!
Cheers
-John
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello John, Larry, Mike, Michael, List,
I want to respond to John's point of view on Mike's dramatic suggestion
that we acquire NWA's only from the dealer that classified it.
Mike - good post. My only wincing is that the dealer doesn't
classify it. A Met Soc approved researcher does mi cuate. I know you
know that but it won't hurt to remind you, I think, with my respects, as
always to you for a bang-up job. I am in agreement with the spirit of
your post and with that of John's with has me thinking you are both way
too right, extreme and impractical. What you have done IMHO is make a
perfect combined argument to get all the dealers off their alleged lazy
and greedy duffs to do the right thing.
John - Your post was good as usual, but more jaded than I am accustomed
to coming from you. This Trust argument alternative holds no water
personally since folks like me and I assume like Larry are not
interested in doing credit and background checks on dealers. And
without folks like me and I assume like Larry all you dealers will be
soon stuck in a pyramid scheme with each other on Meteorite pricing
which everyone's free-for-all neglect of scientific protocol has created
and sales have happily fomented.
So Listen, please and stop blaming the nomads gangs (wow that was a
laugher) or Habibi or Hupe or whoever and distancing yourselves - this
is a collective problem, period.
John, other than the trust monopoly exclusive club smelling thing you
suggest, I think you have not added your usual eye-opening value to
Mike's post. The answer [I think] here is to add the stone and fragment
numbers to conserve the classification process. Like NWA 6000, 2, 4
{...}. And keep a copy of the original classification card. In this
hypothetical exaple case, the NWA 6000 stone #2 slice 4. I stole the
idea from Dr. Grossman and NASA curators. It works. Then if you cut
the slice in half and give your partner the second half, she has NWA
6000,2,4,2. Don't make this confusing. sheesh, it is just adding a
number and only when necessary to your little piece of heaven, not
cataloging the entire stone.
Larry, let me give you the reason I think no one has done this. It
isn't some far flung idea - there is a great scientific precedent now
and for years. My opinion is that meteorite dealers just don't want
to deal with the paperwork. What a PATHETIC excuse of theirs. They
know enough to know who they bought the piece from and how much they
sold it to you for. And the tax authority probably requires it anyway,
too, but let's let the tax authority police them on that. The other
half is that they don't want you to know where they got it from.
Another pathetic excuse to sacrifice the science you buy for their
blindly greedy benefits.
The elementary school library has the Dewey Decimal system, what a
great model, and first graders can handle it, but not us. Ho Hum. I
bet a German cat could handle it. It is the same no-brainer thing.
So no one is asking from John for his new esquisite Sahara iron these
numbers, and he won't send them to you (or will he:)). So let's not
just blame the dealers, but take our ownership as well. No more I
don't know what to do, it's a meteorite jungle out there. Just a
courteous question to the dealer. Can you tell me the fragment number
I am buying? If they squeal on that one you know you are dealing with
a pig. If they are honest you're not buying a pig in a poke
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Bernhard,
I really don't want to criticize the IMCA, but I am Sorry to say I agree
with your statement, just when the biggest turmoil in years has kicked
up, about authenticity, (which incidentally is exactly what they where
started up for in the first place!!), - they seem to have gone an
'unearthly quiet'!
Best,
Mark
-Original Message-
From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 November 2004 11:28
To: mark ford
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Well, IMCA has made a call for a design for such a card lately, and I
even submitted one to them. No answer, and nothing else on this matter
:-(
It seems to me that IMCA spends a lot of energy on the structuring of
the management lately, and less on other things. And their communication
towards the members is something they have to improve. One could have
the impression now that IMCA acts like an elite circle and not like a
representation of collectors. For example: Since I am member of IMCA, I
haven't received a single mail to members about what is going on inside
of IMCA. I have been contacted by individuals within IMCA, yes, on
different matters I proposed and offered, but these were personal
contacts. Would I have remained a silent member, I would know nothing
about what IMCA is doing right now.
Yes, this is some critizism, but I think it is needed.
_
Best regards,
Bernhard Rendelius Rems
CEO RPGDot Network
This outgoing mail has been virus-checked.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark
ford
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 12:14 PM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
This is exactly why I suggested ages ago that we adopt a standardized
meteorite Record card, then any information follows the piece around.
I do feel the IMCA should step in here, authenticity is paramount in our
field, and confidence is dripping away FAST!
Best,
Mark Ford
-Original Message-
From: John Birdsell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 November 2004 22:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Hi Doug and thanks for the interesting idea. I suppose that could work
if every dealer kept perfect records of every piece, slice, part slice,
and part, part slice that they ever bought or sold. The question then
would be, who would be the Meteorite Auditors to track down the few
offending dealers that may decide to fake a meteorite ID number, say
NWA 123,9,25,3,2 and track it through all the hands that is has passed
and sub-divisions that it has been cut into to verify that it is
really NWA 123,9,25,3,2? What happens if someone along the chain of
custody accidentally transposed the 3 and the 2 in the ID number, and
this got passed down the line? Some end recipient could then be accused
by the Meteorite Auditors of faking the piece after an audit exposed
the problem. Who is going to spend their time trying to resolve this
inevitable issues? I can just see our friends on the Meteorite-List
bickering over whether they have proper claim to NWA 123,9,25, 3,2 or
NWA 123,9,25,2,3!
Cheers
-John
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello John, Larry, Mike, Michael, List,
I want to respond to John's point of view on Mike's dramatic suggestion
that we acquire NWA's only from the dealer that classified it.
Mike - good post. My only wincing is that the dealer doesn't
classify it. A Met Soc approved researcher does mi cuate. I know you
know that but it won't hurt to remind you, I think, with my respects, as
always to you for a bang-up job. I am in agreement with the spirit of
your post and with that of John's with has me thinking you are both way
too right, extreme and impractical. What you have done IMHO is make a
perfect combined argument to get all the dealers off their alleged lazy
and greedy duffs to do the right thing.
John - Your post was good as usual, but more jaded than I am accustomed
to coming from you. This Trust argument alternative holds no water
personally since folks like me and I assume like Larry are not
interested in doing credit and background checks on dealers. And
without folks like me and I assume like Larry all you dealers will be
soon stuck in a pyramid scheme with each other on Meteorite pricing
which everyone's free-for-all neglect of scientific protocol has created
and sales have happily fomented.
So Listen, please and stop blaming the nomads gangs (wow that was a
laugher) or Habibi or Hupe or whoever and distancing yourselves - this
is a collective problem, period.
John, other than the trust monopoly exclusive club smelling thing you
suggest, I think you have not added your usual eye-opening value to
Mike's post. The answer [I think] here is to add the stone and fragment
numbers to conserve the classification process. Like NWA 6000, 2, 4
{...}. And keep
RE: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of MeteoritePhotographedHittingEarth
Yeah seems dodgy to me too. There are plenty of Sea Gulls around wharfs! Would it be the first to be filmed in any case - Didn't a news crew film a park forest rock hitting the ground? I remember seeing the film footage, the film clearly showed a 'streak' hitting the ground, and was taken accidentally while they were filming some fire trucks. Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Chris Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2004 02:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of MeteoritePhotographedHittingEarth You're right. It would have been falling nearly vertically, subject only to some drift from the wind. If it had still been traveling at 30,000 mph as the article suggests, it would have been way bigger; a huge fireball, sonic booms, all sorts of stuff like that which would hardly have gone unnoticed. And a typical fall, which of course could have been captured on a camera, isn't going to produce an explosion when it hits. I guess the light bulb might have burst, creating something like an explosion. Still, there are just too many things about this story that are problematic. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul H [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite PhotographedHittingEarth I think this is a load of crap, the piece is obviously very small, and falling at a very low angle. There is no possible way a meteorite that small could come down at that angle, it would have reached terminal velocity and should be falling strait down. Am I correct? Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
All that's needed is a simple card which documents, the origins of the specimen and the previous owners, maybe also anything that is done to the rock, eg, classifications analysis cleaning etc (maybe even these cards would become collectable themselves one day?) then at least you know it's pedigree, it's a start. Should the specimen be cut then the card is then photocopied and the new specimen weight is added as a new line on the card along with any new details, that way all the original info of the parent rock is preserved. Think about it, you could pick up a specimen and tell where it came from, and gain a degree of confidence. Now that might scare some people but its called 'authenticity' and we want it! A slice with a full provenance could be worth a lot more than a lunar slice stuffed in a plastic bag with no info - that's for sure, which would you rather buy? Of course you would never be able to stop people faking the cards, but at least that's definite fraud and would come under the law, where as the sorry sate of affairs that exists at the moment even [we] can't even tell whats going on let alone knowing what we are buying! There's been a lot of argument and heated discussion on all this, but I'm sure it's not personal, and I really think its actually very good to get the truth out in the open, it's the only way forward. Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2004 15:15 To: Meteorite List Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom Just so you all understand, here's what JSC does (I think). It doesn't translate well into a system where more than one person owns the meteorite, but perhaps that doesn't matter. They label their original specimen name,0. I suppose if they had a case where there was more than one fragment in the original mass (not usually true), they might number each fragment with a different number. Every time they divide a sample, the main remaining piece retains its number and the new sample gets the next available sequence number. A database records the original mass of each sample, its current mass, the nature of the sample (slab, end piece, thin section, potted butt, etc.) and the name of the parent sample from which it was taken. So you might have ALH 05002,20 which is a thin section that the database tells you was taken from parent ALH 05002,3 which was a 20 g slice taken from the main mass ALH 05002,0 which weighed 221 g. When a researcher gets a sample, he no longer modifies these numbers even if he divides specimens because he has no access to the JSC database. How could this translate to commercial meteorites? I think the suggestion that each person in the chain append a new subsample number separated by a comma is impractical. For big meteorites, this could get out of hand real quick, producing a long chain of untraceable numbers. All I think that is needed is for the original owner to do what JSC does in some form. I would suggest that they not concern themselves with maintaining a database of all cuts and divisions, but instead just number the specimens once and leave it at that. If somebody buys a piece of NWA 5423,11 then he can trace this back to an original specimen. You see, the comma denotes a specimen number. These numbers would correspond exactly to the number of pieces reported to the NomCom. Everything with only one piece would be ,1. Now if somebody wants to call a new meteorite he buys in Morocco NWA 5434, which is not allowed under our rules, he would have to go the extra step of actually faking a specimen number. The other nice thing about this scheme is that if somebody discovers that NWA 5434,11 is a primitive achondrite not really paired with the rest of NWA 5434, an H6 chondrite, then everybody who bought it will know if he has it. Note, that when one is selling a meteorite, one should be careful how the specimen numbers are used. You are selling NWA 5434. However, this 15 g piece I have up for auction is a slice of NWA 5434,4. The name of the meteorite has no comma. The name of a particular specimen does. reactions? Jeff At 06:14 AM 11/25/2004, mark ford wrote: This is exactly why I suggested ages ago that we adopt a standardized meteorite Record card, then any information follows the piece around. I do feel the IMCA should step in here, authenticity is paramount in our field, and confidence is dripping away FAST! Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: John Birdsell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 November 2004 22:13 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom Hi Doug and thanks for the interesting idea. I suppose that could work if every dealer kept perfect records of every piece, slice, part slice, and part, part slice that they ever bought or sold. The question then would be, who would
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: NWA's, 'Dealers', Science, NomCom
It's quite simple, if you don't know where it comes from and it hasn't been classified then its 'unclasssifed' ... voila - no faking needed, it has a name! :) -Original Message- From: Herbert Raab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2004 16:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: NWA's, 'Dealers', Science, NomCom Jeff Grossman wrote: 1) Keep the specimen under the name the seller told you It was bough as unclassified stony meteorite, so I knew that I am the one who has to care for classification. 2) Get it classified and named properly. I sent it to a major lab for classification. Response was that they do not want to give yet another NWA number to the same meteorite. 3) Fake a specimen number. Not a good choice for anyone that wants to keep honest...? Greetings, Herbert Raab __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: NWA's, 'Dealers', Science, NomCom
If the lab says it's paired, then I would have thought you could sell it as paired with xxx ... no-one can argue you haven't done the right thing. I think the problem comes when someone claims a pairing without getting it looked at, at all. MF -Original Message- From: Herbert Raab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 November 2004 17:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: NWA's, 'Dealers', Science, NomCom Mark Ford wrote: It's quite simple, if you don't know where it comes from and it hasn't been classified then its 'unclasssifed' ... Unfortunately, it is not that simple. As I wrote in my previous message, the stone was sent to a major lab for classification. They cut off a type specimen, made a thin section, and classified the stone accordingly. The result was that it is paired to another NWA chondrite that already has (at least) three separate numbers. So the lab said they won't bother to add yet another number to the very same material. But as the stone has already sereval designations, I can at least take a choice with which dealer I want to get in trouble about stolen NWA numbers... ;^) Best greetings, Herbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need Scorecard
Yes it is confusing! To me, all it's done is make every single meteorite label in our collections questionable. - i.e 'a probably rather than an actually' Clearly there is no way to guarantee authenticity if people sell unchecked stuff, - yes even if someone in a bar in Morroco said it originated from a known strewnfield. So as long as everyone appreciates that then fair enough. Personally, I say never mind the dealers, the Buyers should get stuff checked! - I certainly will from now on, all Lunar Martian stuff etc I buy will gonna be checked over a lot more stringently than usual... Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Paul H [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 November 2004 15:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need Scorecard As someone, who is trying to follow this discussion, my eyes are starting glaze over with NWA 1110 this; NWA 2223 that; NWA 3133 is mine; NWA 3133 is not yours; my NWA 1906 is real; your NWA 1906 is fake; may the real NWA 788, NWA 787, or NWA 482, please stand up. It is hard to search back through the innumerable posts, given the lack of a search engine specifically for the archives, to find out the details behind each specific number is being talked about. At some point, it seems someone needs to provide a scorecard of some sort, if it doesn't already exist, about what each of these players (meteorites) in the number game are about. It would help the soft core, uninitiated lurkers better understand what is the significance of NWA versus either NWA or NWA YYXX. As the posts go back and forth about these numbers, I think of a song to the tune of This Land is Your Land that starts out as NWA 1110 is My number, NWA 1110 is not your number from Uranus to Mercury... appearing at some point. Yours, Paul Baton Rouge, LA __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need Scorecard
Yes but even reputable dealers buy rocks from other people/collectors, the 'reliable' dealers buy collections and sell pieces, presumably without 'submitting it', naturally they would just go with what the labels that came with them say... It's simply not practical to test everything. If you don't know the dealer personally, and exactly where (S)he got the stuff, then you owe it to yourself to have it checked, that's my philosophy! (That way dodgy material would soon be picked up). Example : I had to laugh, on the back page of the current issue of Meteorite, is an advert for a complete SAU 130 Martian individual, completely uncut 100% crusted, they even advertised the fact that it hadn't been sampled!- So the old question applies - How can it be 100% Sau 130? -Original Message- From: Matt Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 November 2004 16:00 To: mark ford; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need Scorecard Mark Wrote: Personally, I say never mind the dealers, the Buyers should get stuff checked! - I certainly will from now on, all Lunar Martian stuff etc I buy will gonna be checked over a lot more stringently than usual... Best Mark Ford Mark: Any reputable dealer SHOULD have their NWA's tested by a lab; and I believe most do this. It should not be up to the collector to have their items verified. That is unjust and unfair to them. Matt Morgan -Original Message- From: Paul H [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 November 2004 15:26 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] My Eyes Are Glazing Over- Need Scorecard As someone, who is trying to follow this discussion, my eyes are starting glaze over with NWA 1110 this; NWA 2223 that; NWA 3133 is mine; NWA 3133 is not yours; my NWA 1906 is real; your NWA 1906 is fake; may the real NWA 788, NWA 787, or NWA 482, please stand up. It is hard to search back through the innumerable posts, given the lack of a search engine specifically for the archives, to find out the details behind each specific number is being talked about. At some point, it seems someone needs to provide a scorecard of some sort, if it doesn't already exist, about what each of these players (meteorites) in the number game are about. It would help the soft core, uninitiated lurkers better understand what is the significance of NWA versus either NWA or NWA YYXX. As the posts go back and forth about these numbers, I think of a song to the tune of This Land is Your Land that starts out as NWA 1110 is My number, NWA 1110 is not your number from Uranus to Mercury... appearing at some point. Yours, Paul Baton Rouge, LA __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Another fake name, serious business
Goes back to the point I made months ago, we need an industry standard record card (a sort of 'meteorite passport') particularly for the more valuable pieces, that way valuable info is preserved... Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 November 2004 12:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another fake name, serious business I don't know if this will help, but maybe it would be a good idea if you dealers start keeping good records of how meteorites are divided and labeling specimens accordingly. So when you get a new meteorite named and you own the whole thing, begin numbering the subspecimens you prepare in the way that JSC does, by adding a comma and a split number. You can then sell something as NWA 3133,10. At least then an educated buyer could tell the difference between a pedigreed sample and one with suspicious origins. I know this doesn't help for the thousands of NWA meteorites already sold, but maybe this will help in future cases. Jeff Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chair, Meteorite Nomenclature Committee (Meteoritical Society) US Geological Survey 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA Phone: (703) 648-6184 fax: (703) 648-6383 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Main Mass
Hi I thought 'main mass' was already well defined? For years it's been the largest single piece recovered from the fall site. And that's it. If it gets cut then the main mass was cut - end of story. if an even larger piece is found at the strewn field then that would become the main mass. (Or in the separate case of NWA's pairings, the new main mass would be classified and would be only the main mass of the new number that was issued) But we don't want to talk about pairings anymore DO WE ?!!! :) Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Fwd: The Next Five Big NASA Failures [Editorial]
Interesting editorial. What people often forget though is that space exploration is still primarily about military technology and politics. It's a lot easier to get funding for 'a science survey mission' than a 'new spy camera technology mission'... One wonders how the current ( slightly misguided imo) paranoia over terrorism will effect future missions? - No doubt many more telecoms satellites will be launched! ;) This guy wonders 'what it must be like to spend months working on a dead end project', he obviously hasn't worked as an engineer on any commercial projects! Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Robert Verish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 November 2004 22:22 To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: The Next Five Big NASA Failures [Editorial] For the part that is relevant to meteorites, Skip down to the 5th Failure - Mars Sample Return: -Original Message [non-HTML format]- Subject: The Next Five Big NASA Failures (Editorial) http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04zh.html The Next Five Big NASA Failures by Jeffrey F. Bell SpaceDaily November 15, 2004 ETC __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] No Dogs Allowed
Dog wars, I like it! ha In the natural history museums latest introduction to meteorites book (the exact title escapes me at the moment) which is on sale in the NHM shop Monica Grady still says a meteorite 'Probably killed a dog' ... Whatever, Consign it to legend I say, we will never prove/disprove it unless someone finds a buried dog with a crushed skull!! Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 November 2004 20:40 To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] No Dogs Allowed More telling, no person clinging to the legend has published anything in its support in the last five years. I know you attempted to have Monica Grady remove the dog story from the Catalogue of Meteorites, 5th edition. She disagreed with your opinions and published the dog story in the Nahkla entry in the catalog in 2000 The catalog only contains factual data, and dog story was kept in, as was appropriate. Ron B. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] The Relic and Some Images
Adam, Thanks for showing us the African meteorite object, very interesting! My immediate thought was that the iron work is made by someone with considerable skill in metal working, and for a tribe the 1700's in south Africa that would be some feat. Since many of the techniques were imported. So perhaps it is later than the date you where given, nice object though! You have to wonder at the thought process about using an Iron meteorite to hold down another meteorite Doh! - Have you nickel tested the iron pieces? Thanks for sharing it with us. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 October 2004 01:14 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] The Relic and Some Images Dear List Members, I have a few questions that some of you may be able to answer. First off, I purchased this relic about seven years ago from a person who deals in African artifacts. I was told the following: It came from a South African tribe who fashioned it in the 1700s. Natives witnessed a fireball, saw a thunderstone hit the ground and built this vessel for it. They carved the main part of this relic out of wood and hand hammered out the iron accessories using possible pieces of an iron meteorite (Gibeon?) Since this stone was witnessed to have came from the sky they anchored it using two wrought iron or meteoritic iron straps so that it would not get away. They depicted the fireball event by portraying the bolide using splayed metal spikes run through nuts. It was used for ceremonies by the tribal shaman who claimed it had the most powerful magic the tribe had ever experienced but the stone was not given time to recharge itself because it was called upon too many times to perform its magic. It has a wrought iron chain and places where feathers could be attached so I do believe it was used for ceremonies. Here are some images: Side view: http://themeteoritesite.com/RelicSideView.jpg Another side view: http://themeteoritesite.com/RelicLayingSide.jpg Top view showing trapped meteorite?: http://themeteoritesite.com/RelicTopView.jpg Close-up of suspected meteorite: http://themeteoritesite.com/CloseupofMeteorite.jpg Bottom view showing wrought iron work: http://themeteoritesite.com/BottomView.jpg Close-up of tribal artisan's conception of fireball: http://themeteoritesite.com/Bolide.jpg Another Close-up: http://themeteoritesite.com/Bolide2.jpg I do not know anything about African artifacts so if anybody knows anything about this piece or similar examples I would like to hear about it. It does look like an achondrite with the crust worn off in areas from being touched so many times. I am sure it is a genuine relic and would like to authenticate the meteorite but do not want to damage it in anyway by trying to pry the stone out. I do not believe in superstition but for some reason I cannot draw myself to remove the stone and have it examined. This could represent a very old witnessed fall so any advice would be appreciated. All the best. Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: large, radioactive ebay brahins from chenobylarea
Yep, it's actually amazing how un-radioactive meteorites are, when you consider where they have come from and that some have actually melted due to radioactivity, long ago. I guess the differentiation on an asteroid and the fact that there is no aqueous action on the rocks, means that any naturally occurring radioisotopes are well dispersed, and not concentrated enough to measure. Lots of short lived isotopes on new falls due to cosmic events though.. Mark -Original Message- From: Pekka Savolainen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 October 2004 20:47 To: Brennan Klose Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: large, radioactive ebay brahins from chenobylarea Well, I have 3 Geiger counters, but not radioactive meteorites...;- I´m also a collector of minerals, and there are many, many minerals, radioactive in the nature. Some slightly, like Columbite, some not so slightly, like Uranite, these I keep in my garage, but my Brahins are all in the house ;- best, pekka s Brennan Klose wrote: Hi All, I just want you all to know that it is nothing dangerous (radioactive) in all Brahin samples. Brahin meteorite fell long ago and all samples that were (and will be) found are from quite deep level under the surface (0.5-1.5 meters) where no radiation is. Some radiation is only on the surface in that area. My friends and I were several times there. But we are not enemies for our selves. The radiation is quite low in the area where the ellipse of Brahin is located. Temporary visiting that place is absolutely safety for health. Even several tenths of years you can live there. Just they made a border between living and not living areas on the level of 30 microrentgen/h. (The Brahin town is in the level of 36 microrentgen/h and people live there. They let cows eat the grass there and eat the meat and drink milk after without any doubt. Note, that a lot of Earth stones that were used to built big houses have more radiation level than all meteorites (including Brahin). We pass all the times the security in many airports of the world with Brahin. It impossible to carry radioactive goods on the plane! If you still not believe, get a Geiger counter, measure something at home and after bring it to one of the shows (or measure you own Brahin sample if you have already one). All the best. Serge __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] large, radioactive ebay brahins from chenobyl area
Harlan, Ive often wondered about this too! If someone has measured an 'increase over background' then clearly the potential at least exists for a serious health issue.. I am an engineer in the nuclear industry, so I have access to Geiger counters and MCA's etc and I have extensively checked my Brahin but found no abnormal contamination, but that's not to say it isn't a potential issue. As far as I know the Brahin strewn field extends reasonably far into the restricted zone, much of the land has never been surveyed, so the levels are unknown, I doubt much contamination would have penetrated deep into the metal, more likely most danger would be from any residual surface soil/moisture, that is still on the outer surface of the metal. What would worry me more is the workshops that are cutting the stuff, airborne radioactive dust being an even more serious issue! Just goes to show, every home should have a Geiger counter imho... Mark Ford -Original Message- From: harlan trammell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 October 2004 16:23 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] large, radioactive ebay brahins from chenobyl area i noticed a very large , whole brahin piece on ebay. in the ad, it stated that there was an additional amount of radiation over the backgeound radiation rate from it due to the fact that it was collected in the chernobyl area. a.) is this a concern for health risks? b.) just HOW MUCH of this used-to-be$25/g, but-now-is-50cents/g (hmmm...), huge pieces of brahin is or may be being collected illegally from the chernobyl radiation area? i do not have a gieger counter, so i can't check mine. all documented info appreciated. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorites Donated to Planetarium
Hi Geoff, Yes Patrick Moore is a great character, and is in his 80's now but still very with it! He is currently working with the queen Guitarist Brian May on a book (Brian being a keen astronomer!). The South Downs Planetarium is in Chichester in west Sussex, which is on the south coast of England. Our website www.bimsociety.org The Planetarium website http://www.southdowns.org.uk/sdpt/ Best Mark Chairman BIMS IMCA #1388 -Original Message- From: Notkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 October 2004 18:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorites Donated to Planetarium Mark posted: Photos at http://www.freewebs.com/fordmeteorites/meteoritepresentation.htm Wow, Sir Patrick is getting to look more and more like Winston Churchill. What a venerable chap he is! I used to love watching The Sky at Night when I was a kid. Where in England is The South Downs Planetarium? (I grew up in Surrey). Thanks for the photos, and well done. Regards, Geoff N. Tucson, AZ www.paleozoic.org www.notkin.net __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites Donated to Planetarium
Hi, I am pleased to announce to the list, that Last Friday, Dave Harris and I (on behalf of the British an Irish meteorite Society which we formed earlier this year), presented The South Downs Planetarium with a substantial meteorite collection. It was gratefully received by Sir Patrick Moore, the famous Astronomer. Sir Patrick Moore was instrumental in mapping the lunar surface for the Nasa Moon missions, and has played a vital role in British astronomy for many years. Photos at http://www.freewebs.com/fordmeteorites/meteoritepresentation.htm A great day was had by all, and I would like to thank all those that donated material, these rocks will be used as both a study resource and to inspire school kids and Adults alike, on the south coast of England. The collection totaled around 35 items, including a 2.2 kilo Campo slice, a large Brahin Slice, and a large representative selection of Chondrite and Achondrite slices. Again thanks to those that donated material, much appreciated. Best, Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] The World's Largest Meteorite Field Found in Egypt?
Didn't a famous Victorian explorer claim once that he had found a massive meteorite in Egypt the size of a mountain/hill? (There have been field expeditions, but no-one has ever found it) - Anyone know about this? I take it there is no connection with the new discoveries in Egypt? Bernd? Any help? Best, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] The World's Largest Meteorite Field Found inEgypt?
Yes that's the one! Thanks Rob! http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/E/ends/meteorite1.html -Original Message- From: Rob Wesel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 October 2004 08:33 To: mark ford; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Largest Meteorite Field Found inEgypt? Hello Mark, and all- I think you are referring to Chinguetti http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/E/ends/meteorite1.html Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] The World's Largest Meteorite Field Found inEgypt? Didn't a famous Victorian explorer claim once that he had found a massive meteorite in Egypt the size of a mountain/hill? (There have been field expeditions, but no-one has ever found it) - Anyone know about this? I take it there is no connection with the new discoveries in Egypt? Bernd? Any help? Best, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] The World's Largest Meteorite Field FoundinEgypt?
Looks like the original article that was posted, is by the same bunch as the infamous 'Alien technology found at Sikhote Alin' .. Or worse! http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/14269_aliens.html Hmmm. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Wow!
Yeah, chin up Dave! - good people like you are what keeps the world from destroying itself. It's easy to let the bad stuff dominate in one's mind, but for every looser out there there are ten good ones. Things will work out... Viva la list! -Original Message- From: Dave Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2004 22:10 To: metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] Wow! Hi, Well, I have to say that I am really moved by some of the wonderful emails I have got from you good guys and gals on the Metlist! I guess I forgot you were there - being blinded by the crap so often posted by certain individuals. Of course you are all right - just send to my spam bucket and delete without reading. I guess I read the negative ones like one just HAS to look at an horrific car crash. Morbid curiousity and maybe a glimmer of truth about oneself within them... I love this List and it forms an important part of my recreational life - your support, knowledge and breadth of experience always stuns me and I really do want to be a part of it still I shall continue to lurk, and I'll await any mails that I will surely get that I will naturally delete. Thank you all very much! dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day - October 5, 2004
Now that's nice! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 October 2004 14:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day - October 5,2004 ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY: http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Oct_5.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] General Meteorite Interest Has Increased 100%InLast Year
Hi, 'Supply and demand', that's what determines prices, there is a lot more material around, these days, just look at the number of people selling stuff. Having said that I have noticed that there are less and less larger specimens around, everything seems to get cut these days! Mark -Original Message- From: Bernhard Rems [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 September 2004 21:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] General Meteorite Interest Has Increased 100%InLast Year I think these low prices are partly because people don't know how to sell. Look at the Hupes - they still get good prices for their material. Most people on the net or ebay sell meteorites like, well, rocks. Believe in their value and their beauty, communicate their value and beauty, and you will get better prices. Amen. Bernhard -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von MARK BOSTICK Gesendet: Donnerstag, 30. September 2004 17:40 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [meteorite-list] General Meteorite Interest Has Increased 100% InLast Year Hello List, The Meteorite Market is Crashing!, The Meteorite Market Has Crashed the Last Two Years!, Things Are Not Selling, The Market is Ruin.it seems a common theme or underlined theme in the meteorite community. I have never seen this to be true. In fact, it appears to me that sales and interest has done nothing but increase.and at a really amazing pace. As we continue to increase the inflow of meteorites, it makes it harder and harder to get a large piece of everything, but I do not think that means things are not selling or the market has crashed. And to show this I present some of my website stats. Which show a general interest in meteorites is up almost 50%. While this does not mean sales are up 50%, the two factors are very closely related. The following is a list of different visitors, per a month, to my website, www.meteoritearticles.com. This is not page hits or visits a month, which are both larger numbers. Such information is usually kept private but I think some of you will find it of interest. Date - Different Visitors Sept 2004 - 4,484 (not over yetbut almost) Aug, 2004 - 4,239 Jul. 2004 - 3,244 May 2004 - 2,754 Apr 2004 - 3,069 Mar 2004 - 3,605 Feb 2004 - 3,352 Jan 2004 - 2,942 Dec 2003 - 2,480 Nov 2003 - 2,449 Oct 2003 - 2,393 Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] eBay Parnallee ad - 39g of it...
Hi, Having seen it up close it's every bit as fab as the picture suggests.. Nice! Best, Mark -Original Message- From: Dave Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 September 2004 17:48 To: metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Parnallee ad - 39g of it... Hi, As I advised earlier, here is a link to a sizeable chunk of Parnallee on eBay if anyone is interested http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=2273122681 Apologies to those who dislike such emails! Best regards dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: UK fireball
Marco, It was apparently seen directly [over head] in Dorset UK.. not 'in the distance', so this implies a very southerly flight path. Time will tell. Best Mark -Original Message- From: Marco Langbroek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 September 2004 17:12 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] re: UK fireball The fireball reported over England on Friday (24th September) appears to have traveled from Northern England/Ireland all the way down the country and the most southerly report appears to be from Poole in Dorset, which is right on the south coast. Please do not make the same mistake as was made with the January 4th fireball over Spain: the fact that it was reported from southern England does not mean it traveled OVER southern England. A fireball traveling 500 north of you can well be seen by you. The distribution of locations of sighting is NOT the same as the trajectory path of the fireball! The area over which it can be seen is much wider than the actual trajectory length. A distance traveled from Northern Ireland to southern Dorset and hence a trajectory of over 500 km is not entirely impossible for a meteor (there are precedents), but it would be VERY unusual. - Marco -- Marco Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) Leiden, the Netherlands 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DMS website: http://www.dmsweb.org priv. website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
Hi, This is a great discussion, very interesting. As was brought up by me and others last time round, it's all very well having information about the origins and history of a piece, but it just never gets passed on!!! I still think a lot of the problems would be solved if we had a standard record card for each piece that follows the piece around, and if it's cut the card is copied so each new piece gets its own card which contains the original information about the parent specimens history/origins. I'm sorry, but when your paying $50+ a gram for something, you are entitled to know something about the origins of the piece! Who would buy a diamond without knowing it was real, or buy gold without a gold hallmark? Some meteorite material is even more valuable and yet we know nothing about where it came from! I've bought Lunar slices from well respected dealers that arrived in nothing more than a small plastic bag, with not even the number written on, that's simply an appalling situation in my book! C'mon guys n Girls we live in a world where people are faking everything, the last thing we want is for total trust to break down in the meteorite world, and im afraid it's heading that way, slowly but surley. Shirokovsky was a wake up call, and it won't be the last I'm sure, let's make sure confidence prevails! Best Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
re: [meteorite-list] Fireball over England
Hi Vic, Iv'e not heard anything yet, but there had been two sonic booms heard over Wales UK reported earlier this week. They are flight testing the Eurofighter typhoon aircraft... But this fireball sighting sounds like a new one! Mark Ford -Original Message- From: V.K.Pearson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 September 2004 11:09 To: meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball over England We have received reports of a fireball and airburst over the Northamptonshire/Buckinghamshire/Bedfordshire area this morning (~06.30am BST). The approximate trajectory was in a south-east direction. Has anyone else in the UK meteorite community heard anything about this or witnessed the event? Cheers Vic Pearson __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out
Yeah, there are quite a few anomalies in the whole system... If the name or number given to a fall is only for the specimens given in for analysis, how come falls like sikhote have a total known weight of many tons? Surley only a few kilo's where officially used for the classification, so if we are being strict, the total known weight should really be the 'total classified weight', should it not? Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: JKG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 September 2004 16:53 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List (E-mail) Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out This is an interesting point. The word known implies that up to this point this is what we know exists. History has shown that addition specimens of meteorites with previously published TNWs have been found which changes the TNW. But remember, in the case of NWAs, the Meteoritical Society has invoked a specific set of rules for a meteorite to be properly recognized. Maybe it's time for the rule makers to revisit this issue. Best, JKG At 08:35 AM 9/23/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bernhard and list, Something else to bear in mind (although it may be trivial) when you refer to the TKW of say NWA1929 (or any other classified NWA). The weight is actually the total weight not total known weight as the name NWA1929 refers to the rock Mike had classified and no other. TKW infers there may be other unknown/undiscovered mass. This cannot be possible. Regards Ken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bernhard Rendelius Rems Sent: 23 September 2004 16:19 To: 'Michael Farmer' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out Michael (and others who have written to me in private), it's not making me sick that it's about money, it makes me sick that people do not stick to the rules (even dealers I trust don't stick to the simple rules anymore). Let me tell you this: I recently bought a somewhat larger slice of NWA 2019 from a respected dealer. I knew the TKW, I accepted the price and I expected that the piece I buy is from this TKW. It seems now that the NWA 2019 I bought isn't NWA 2019, but unclassified material that might quite possibly be paired to NWA 2019. Now, if this discussion wouldn't take place, I would believe I have so and so much from the TKW of NWA 2019. I would possibly resell it in the future as NWA 2019, adding to the confusion and unknowingly betraying my business partner. So, to all dealers out there: if you sell a meteorite as Meteorite A and it is just something that is possibly paired to A, I FEEL RIPPED OFF! And I don't like that feeling. Adam, what hav you done about the NWA 1110 auctions and the olivine diogenite you declared to be fake? What does the IMCA have to say about this matter? _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:58 PM To: Bernhard Rendelius Rems Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out Bernhard, don't do that. I also have felt that way, but love for the meteorites themselves keeps me sane. Unfortunately all the travel I do costs a small fortune, so selling keeps me and my family alive, while building my collection. This is simply an issue that needs some sort of fixing. I don't really know how to do it. I Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Michael Farmer' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 7:50 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out Money, you know. This makes me so sick lately that I think of quitting this hobby and selling off my 600+ meteorites. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:45 PM To: Rob Wesel; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sale - Howardite Blow Out This one confuses me. We had a large fight and discussion just last week, where the Hupes and Dr Jeff Grossman said that pairings must be made scientifically and when the nomenclature committee denote a number for a meteorite, it is for that meteorite that the number is reserved, no others. NWA 1929 was my meteorite, and it was a single individual. I had it classified by Dr Bunch. It now seems that people are selling other meteorites under my number, including the Hupes? How is this possible? Complete individuals? Then they have not been cut. Why the double standard? How does anyone know these uncut meteorites are NWA 1929? Why were they all
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Giveaway...
Hi Steve and List I don't know if you have heard, but a bunch of us UK collectors, recently got together and started, 'The British and Irish Meteorite Society'. (www.bimsociety.org). - So far we have 10 members. At the moment we are in the process of donating some meteorites to The Southdowns Planetarium, in Chichester (England). Sir Patrick Moore (The famous Astronomer) has agreed to receive them from us, and hopefully through this we will be able to get some much needed publicity for the society and the Planetarium. Kids ( adults) from all over the country go to the planetarium for lectures and we feel this is an ideal place to have some material on display! We already have a few reasonable specimens, sourced from our own collections!, but if you or anyone else out there has any spare meteorites they would be gratefully received! (I can cover postage if needed)... Very Best Mark Ford Imca #1388 (Chairman of BIMS). __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Seymchan Pallasite
Hi, Anyone got a link to any classification details for this seymchan pallasite? Looks quite interesting, very sharp Olivine pieces Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Seymchan Pallasite
i.e - have the new 'pallasite' parts of the fall have been looked at? MF -Original Message- From: mark ford Sent: 20 September 2004 09:54 To: Meteorite List Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Seymchan Pallasite Hi, Anyone got a link to any classification details for this seymchan pallasite? Looks quite interesting, very sharp Olivine pieces Best Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Society
Hi Marcin, Yes there are a few meteorite societies, in the world. Even so, most collectors still don't belong to any societies at all. We formed the British and Irish Meteorite Society, because it seems meteoritics in the UK and Ireland is not being promoted very well at all. This is particularly sad, because Britain has played such a major role in meteorite science since the early days! The society's aims are the promotion of meteorite study and collecting (educating people about them), bringing collectors together and also hopefully finding some new falls in Britain and Ireland, this can only practically be achieved by having a society based in the UK. Besides all that, it's a great way of bringing collectors together to exchange interests! ... Best, Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Meteoryt.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 September 2004 10:29 To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Society Hi Mark and List. So how many meteorite society's is now in this small planet ? NZ Met. Society (WorldWide) Polish Meteorite Society UK/Irish Met. Society Anyone else ? -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Alien Microbes Could Survive Crash-Landing
.. Snip ... Bacteria could survive crash-landing on other planets, a British team has found. Interesting, but they appear to have kinda missed out the 'extreme cosmic radiation' and the heat/cold bit, that would likely kill the little suckers... Best, Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: Enough is Enough is Enough...
Well, I personally think this has been an interesting debate, (mud slinging aside), this is what we need more of, - openness! So what else are we being scammed with? .. Does explain why NWA869 appears to have 'many different lithologies'! ;) Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
