Re: [meteorite-list] Definitions of types of falls and finds
Mendy, All due respect to you and Jeff Grossman (one of our Royalty figures) but, to me a fall is either observed or there is great evidence like damage caused by the impact. All else is a find. Because after all, all finds are falls or how else would they be here? Best Rgards, Carl meteoritemax -- Love Life Mendy Ouzillou mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com wrote: I've been thinking about the email Jeff sent out some time back and wanted to propose a slightly different set of names and simplify the nomenclature. You can see Jeff's original email below. I think we have all struggled with defining meteorites that are neither observed falls nor finds and part of the reason is that we were conflating too many ideas. Observed fall: Observed to fall, either by eyewitnesses or with instruments. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, the strewn field location (if there is one) and appearance taking into account weathering associated with time on the ground, may be directly attributed to the fall. Correlated fall: No material was found immediately after an observed event, but later analysis and physical evidence conclusively points to an observed event on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Find: Material was found and no event can be conclusively associated with an observed event. A find that appears like a fresh fall is still a find if no observed event can be associated with it. Feedback welcome. Mendy Ouzillou IMCA8393 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 6:26 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the last three are types of finds. Jeff On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of fall. The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the possible fall category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ;^] -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email
Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting for Georgia tektites
Hello, This is Hal's email address if you need it; katieh...@yahoo.com Carl Meteoritemax -- Love Life Richard Graveline a...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello: Try contacting Hal through the Meteorite Association of Georgia website. Richard G. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of J Sinclair Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 10:47 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Hunting for Georgia tektites Hi List, I've been thinking about areas to hunt for meteorites and since I'm on the southeast coast of the US, my choices are limited. My focus has shifted to hunting for Georgiaites. The map of the tektite strewnfield has grown over the years to include a couple of counties in South Carolina. The Georgia counties where the most have been found is Dodge and Bleckley in the central part of the state. Are those counties still the best areas to hunt? Does anyone have any other suggestions on good areas to hunt now that the strewnfield has been enlarged? What type of terrain should I look for? Would creek banks be good? I've got Hal Povenmire's Tektite book from 1997 and I found a recent phone number for him but that number isn't in service. Any advice would be appreciated and I'm open to join with other hunters if anyone is interested. John __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite
Alan, You said; Interestingly, some studies have concluded that rocks blasted off of Mercury spend millions of years in independent heliocentric orbits before accreting once again with Mercury. How did our probes reveal enough data to reach such a conclusion? Thanks, Carl Meteoritemax -- Love Life Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote: The more general question is how we would distinguish a terrestrial meteorite found on Earth 9as opposed to one found in the lunar regolith). Unless it was an observed fall, the rock would have to have a fusion crust for us to notice it in the first place. It would have been exposed to cosmic rays (gauged by measuring its cosmogenic nuclides) and it should have the isotopic compositions of terrestrial rocks. Presumably, the rock would have been extensively shocked or completely melted for it to have been launched off the Earth to begin with. Interestingly, some studies have concluded that rocks blasted off of Mercury spend millions of years in independent heliocentric orbits before accreting once again with Mercury. Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 office phone: 310-825-3202 fax: 310-206-3051 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wooddell Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 2:53 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] is it a meteorite So, let's say there is one.a chunk of hematite. What tests could be performed to 1. Prove it was in Space. 2. Originally from Earth. ??? Radionuclide? Jim -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] First photos of a cut meteorite from the JinjuFall on 9 March
Yes, Sterling. We have all missed you. Carl -- Love Life Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Of all things, a reference to match-sticks brings out our friend Sterling Webb. Good to see you sir. Do not be a stranger. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 3/16/14, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Shawn, List, Phosphorus sesquisulfide and/or additional elemental sulfur creates the smell of old- fashioned stick matches. Sterling Webb --- -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:41 PM To: Meteorite Central Subject: [meteorite-list] First photos of a cut meteorite from the JinjuFall on 9 March Hello Listers The meteorite looks like an Enstatite the looks like Eagle meteorite. Has anyone noticed that some Enstatites have a slight smell of match sticks. I have Pillistfer meteorite fragments and when I always open the container, I get this matches smell. Do other people on the list notice that as well? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html http://meteoritefalls.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] XRF gun at Tucson 2014?
Mike, Blaine Reed has been doing this for years. The XRF does not give the same readings as a microprobe does but, Blaine has his own data base of many different types of meteorites so, he is very good at interpreting what it is you might have. He compares your rocks numbers with known type meteorite numbers and can make you happy or sad . He does this for a very low cost and you cannot ask for help from a nicer guy than Blaine. Not sure if anybody does the magnetic susceptibility tests. Best regards, Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, It seems like a XRF booth at the big shows would be a big attraction. Set up shop and sell low-cost analysis right there at the show. For a nominal extra fee, magnetic susceptibility could be checked also. It wouldn't be official, but a skilled person could make an educated guess of what type of meteorite it is, based on XRF, magnetic-suc, and hand/microscope examination. At the big shows, it could be quite lucrative I think. :) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - PS - I hope everyone is Colorado is safe from the floods. Be careful! On 9/16/13, Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you all for the replies, Blaine Reed is the man! I will pay him a visit (besides the usual shopping visit), thanks again. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Ancient Meteorite
The painting on the wall appears to be hung up side down as well. This whole thing seems odd. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi All, This looks like something Proud Tom would have done! I agree with Jason that the pottery looks mismatched. It is hard to tell but I would bet the stone is not even a meteorite. I doubt that many Archeologists would glue a pot together this way. I was not able to pull up any history online (from a couple reliable sources) on his name either. It seems if he lives in Phoenix that he would be well aware of ASU and UofA as sources of information. Sonny -Original Message- From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com To: Anne Black impact...@aol.com Cc: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Sep 13, 2013 12:24 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Ancient Meteorite Hello Roman, All,I'm no expert, but...The vertical view of the vessel is triangular because the potteryfragments of the lower portion came from a much larger vessel --probably a bowl or two-handled vessel of some sort, given its apparentdiameter and the thickness of some of the fragments. The glazed anddelicately-formed lip and neck appear to be from a completelydifferent vase -- a nice one, at that. The handle is a bit odd, notsure about it.The first question that came to mind after seeing the images is Whywould anyone glue pieces of a large pot together in the form of a muchsmaller one?Upon closer inspection, I began to wonder why an archaeologist wouldglue mismatched pieces of glass or glazed pottery, painted and scoredterracotta, and other ceramics of greatly differing thicknessestogether into a triangular shape that (crudely) mimics an amphora'sshape...albeit with one handle.I'm surprised that anyone carbon-dated the site, given that thepottery and details of other artifacts are often deemed suitable fordating purposes.I had too many questions after reading the provided description.Sure, pass the fellow along to an expert...JasonOn Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Anne Black impact...@aol.com wrote: Hello Roman, It is really quite simple. Since he is in Phoenix AZ, he should go straight to Arizona State University (ASU) they have an archaeology department and some of the top meteorite experts. Perfect place to get answers to all his questions. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Roman Jirasek r...@meteoritelabels.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Sep 12, 2013 8:00 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible Ancient Meteorite I had an archaeologist email me today asking about custom labels, and also if I could help with identifying a possible ancient meteorite he found this year. I received permission to send this question to my fellow colleagues which may have more insight into this topic. Read below, or click on link to see his photos... http://www.meteoritelabels.com/Ancient.htm Cheers, Roman Jirasek www.meteoritelabels.com Copied email follows I am an Archaeologist and recovered a meteorite in 2013, on private property in Sparta Greece. This meteorite was found inside an ancient vase, and was buried with human remains. We dated this site to approximately, 220 BCE to 130 BCE, but have not yet carbon dated the item. I do not know of any meteorite falling on or near Sparta Greece. Since the meteorite was found inside an honorary vase, we suspect it was held in high regards, and more than likely to remember a battle. The only battle recorded that had a meteorite that fell during the battle; was with ancient Turkey and the Spartans. It actually stopped the battle for two days, thinking it was a sign from the gods. Many of the Spartans recovered portions of the meteorite is a sign of victory from the God of Mars. I have enclosed a picture of the meteorite. Can you tell me? Of any meteorites that fell prior to 220 BCE, since we know that was the earliest date, since the meteorites was buried with the hoplite soldier. We assume the meteorite obviously fell before that date. This would help us, with dating the find. Additionally what would the selling price be if it were to be sold. The meteorite? Thank you Douglas Roth. Phoenix, Arizona. Sparta archaeology. Yes, it is fine to forward the info and pics. I don't have any dir links, but can be found, on face book for Douglas Rothman Scottsdale, or ancient history on face book for archeology travel and tours. Douglas Rothman. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] VINTAGE ORIGINAL NASA APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUT BUZZ ALDRIN MOON VISOR PHOTOGRAPH AD.
Dear List, Please check out my ebay listings for a variety of amazing VINTAGE ORIGINAL NASA APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUT BUZZ ALDRIN MOON VISOR PHOTOGRAPHS. These are a great compliment to all you LUNAR collectors out there. Please Click link below. http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2654 Thanks for looking. Carl' meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
Elton, As always you make some very good points. I agree that this is a glassy slag. But, the question is; Where did it come from? Did the MIR have any glass that could have melted upon re-entry? And who at NASA said it came from MIR? To me those are the critical questions because if for example A fellow at NASA named Grossman or Korotev said it I would tend to believe them. No need for pigeon holing material because it looks like slag. I know this is a stretch but, Some meteorites do look like slag. Look close at a hand specimen ( not a photo) of Vaca Muerta . Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some NASA water cooler engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central membership and not one poster can recognize silicate == slag ===on sight. ( I am not saying that everyone should be a slag expert just that there should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given all the talent represented here.) A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 hours of field time getting to know == slag == because I can't think of a location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his meteor-wrong along. Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. It is literally everywhere. It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a fallacy of logic to believe that something can't be slag because you don't know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it therefore came from space seems to be the corollary which always follows. The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't be slag and must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ section. Regards, Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebays new shipping policy
Jim, Looks like Etsy.com has at least one meteorite dealer; http://www.etsy.com/shop/Meteorites?page=6 Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike and all! I just googled online auction sites and found about a dozen listed. I frequent one other one that is called GunBroker. People often auction off all sorts of things. So why not meteorite sales there??? Gold and Silver coins and other collectables do good there... I am just curious. Ebay has a killer share of the on line auction market, but there are others out there. Maybe the market has been tested and failed...not sure. Maybe Ebay and Amazon are too good to walk away from or too easy. I say spread your wings! Jim On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Mike Miller meteoritefin...@gmail.com wrote: Ok Jim you opened this can ...what other sites... and what do they offer sellers? I mean I am not asking for a complete run down I am asking what real options are out there? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: There sure seems to be a ton of meteorite dealers on Ebay. I look around at other sites on the web and see no dealers taking advantage of them or any attempt in spreading ones wings. Why is that when Ebay is all about squeezing you for their benefit...not yours or your customers??? Is it such no one will venture out of a comfort zone or Jim On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Matt Morgan m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: I agree with Mendy and end up just refunding the difference when I actually pays for the package at the post office. yes it is totally ridiculous. Matt Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Before getting rid of the USPS, let me tell you about eBay's Global Shipping Program. I signed up for it and used it on two auctions before deciding I would never do so again. The buyer pays much higher shipping than USPS and import duties. Why, because the price charge was incredibly high. Shipping to Canada was so high that the buyer (a well respected person on the MetList) asked me to ship it to them standard US Mail. The other package went to China and quite frankly was amazed the person did not complain. eBay's fees are not clear and (I guess) unlike the USPS will try to make money on this service, not just break even. Caveat Emptor, Mendy http://www.ebay.com/sch/mendyo/m.html From: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Met-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebays new shipping policy Before getting rid of the USPS, let me tell you about eBay's Global Shipping Program. I signed up for it and used it on two auctions before deciding I would never do so again. The buyer pays much higher shipping than USPS and import duties. Why, because the price charge was incredibly high. Shipping to Canada was so high that the buyer (a well respected person on the MetList) asked me to ship it to them standard US Mail. The other package went to China and quite frankly was amazed the person did not complain. eBay's fees are not clear and (I guess) unlike the USPS will try to make money on this service, not just break even. Caveat Emptor, Mendy From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebays new shipping policy It just shows how behind the times the United States Postal Service is. They raise international shipping costs by %50 after raising it every year for the last several years. What are we getting for these massive increases? Nothing! Now packages have to be shipped twice, eBay's way of Band-Aiding a serious problem! UPS, FedEx and EMS have been able to track international packages for over two decades! It shows when the U.S. Government oversees an operation like USPS that we can count on extreme inefficiency. I would fire the entire board and and tell the replacement board to learn something from the private sector! Adam From: Jim Strope fa...@yahoo.com To: Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebays new shipping policy The downside for the buyer is that they will have to pay taxes on the full value. Jim Strope 421 4th Street Glen Dale, WV. 26038 Sent from my iPad On May 5, 2013, at 4:30 AM, Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com wrote: under the new overseas shipping policy you send your package to a
[meteorite-list] NASA WET TOWEL
LIST, COOL THING HERE. WHAT DOES A WET TOWEL DO IN SPACE? SEE HERE; http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2013/04/21/177949605/a-wet-towel-in-space-is-not-like-a-wet-towel-on-earth?utm_source=NPRutm_medium=facebookutm_campaign=20130421 CARL METEORITEMAX -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Uh! Oh!
Adam, I agree with the authorities in this case. They were right to make arrests. What bothers me is your statement that meteorites are now Cultural property because of coarse they are NOT! Question; Are meteorites really considered to be cultural property? Because if they are unless they are found on private land based on this story, We hunters risk arrest see link to story here; http://myfwc.com/news/news-releases/2013/february/27/artifacts-arrests/ This is rather scary when you consider the fact that meteorites are really just rocks until an expert declares them to be authentic and even them mistakes are made. What has happened to America? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: The poorly interpreted and recently twisted U.S. laws are nearly as strict. Give it a few more years. Now that meteorites are considered cultural property, we will be hearing a lot more about this subject. When artifacts and rocks (meteorites) are treated the same, so will the jail terms. The recent Florida show artifact busts demonstrates that public servants are not messing around. Several people are facing dozens of felony charges each including a well-known meteorite collector and over a dozen previously respected artifact dealers. Although well-intended, Egyptian laws have pushed the dealing of artifacts underground and have raised their value considerably making them more desirable than ever to some. Personally, I would not touch any item from Turkey or Egypt without proper paperwork which is unobtainable. Just like commercial meteorite collecting permits will be here in the U.S. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Urgent Attention: Major Meteorite Collectionstollen !!!!
List, This is very confusing. The Tucson show ended nearly a month ago on Feb. 18th. Why the long wait to make claims Anyone at the show already saw much of this material being sold by Sean and he and Bruno were very friendly with each other at the time. I saw them meeting and discussing identification and pricing of this material. Bruno had half or this material for sale and Sean had the other half for sale. In other words it was explained to me that they had made a deal in exchange for past debt obligations Bruno had with Sean's partner. Sean explained this to anyone interested . I could give you a list of people Sean told this to. He had made a legitimate deal with Bruno. This seems like somebody is doing dirty laundry in public and has no business on this list. At least not until resolved. There is always two sides to every story. Sean may be caught in the middle here but, I know him to be an honest man. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com wrote: Holy Smokes!!! Looking over the list of stolen meteorites, many of those individual pieces are worth 5X more then my collection of 12 years!!! There has to be several hundred thousand dollars or more lost/stolen on this! How in the name of Mary did anyone get away with all that inventory!? I am speechless, thankful I only have to type. Where was the security, laser alarms and Uzzi! I am very sorry to see and hear this. This is incredible. Hopefully this will help create better measures on security because this boggles my mind! Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: The Earth's Memory i...@meteorite.fr To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: i...@imcamail.de Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Urgent Attention: Major Meteorite Collectionstollen Dear list Members, it is with consternation that we annouce you that we have been victims of extortion at the beginning of the Tucson show and finaly totaly robbed at the end of the Tucson show. Fortunatly the criminals have been iddentified and one have admited that he has the material. For security and procedure raison we will not disclose their names at that time nor the circumstances, we can just tell you that two are Americans and one is Morrocan. We and the Police have enough evidences and witnesses, that will lead the criminal team to be punished by the full power of the Law. We offered them to give back the material and we would not press charges, but it seems that they are not cooperating. The French Police will involve FBI and INTERPOL in the next days as they don't return our inventory intact and at no cost NOW. Here is a rapid list of what have been stolen and extorqued: http://www.meteorite.fr/en/stolen.htm this list is still partial as we are working on it, there are many fossils too. Many of you know that these specimens are our and saw them in our room or on our web site for years, please have a close look on that list, some specimens might be already for sell somewhere. We ask any Dealer, Collector or Curator to be very carefull. If you have been proposed any suspicious specimens, please report it to us or Eric Twelker off list. Any help would be very much appreciated. Best from France, Bruno Carine La Memoire de la Terre The Earth's Memory France www.meteorite.fr __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Urgent Attention: Major Meteorite Collectionstollen !!!!
Bruno and Carine, We have been friends for a long time and you two have always been a joy to visit with. I have nothing against you but, like Elton said. This is a civil (money) matter more than a criminal (jail) matter. A better word for you to use here is leveraged instead of extortion. Too me it looks like they used leverage to collect a debt not extortion. They convinced you to offer up a bunch of your inventory as compensation for a debt you owed them ? Anybody that walked into Sean's room saw what was once your material because it was openly being marketed for sale. I know you know this because I saw you in meetings with Sean himself and he later told me he thought you were pretty cool but, he had nothing to do with your settlement with Braheem (sp). The time to cry wolf was during the show. Not weeks later and if these folks had access to your shipments their must have been a reason. If they had access they could argue the shipment belonged to them. Again, like Elton said, this sounds like a civil action where you would need to sue them but, to claim theft in the United States you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. You are yourself at risk of a libel law suit being filed against you and I would think all of you will piss away a lot of money on lawyers. I hope you guys work this out and clear each others good names. Best to all, Carl -- Cheers The Earth's Memory i...@meteorite.fr wrote: Carl, please send us the list of these people, witnesses are always welcome. Wow, he told you that he has half of our material ? thank you for your testimony. Anybody has pictures of that exposed collection ? If you had more than your house value as retainer you would be very cooperative beleive us, we even had to give some Museum labels . Past debt obligations ? please show any paperwork. If he is caught there and has nothing to see why he doesn't answer us nor write us that he's innocent ? and as for the delay, 12 days for the crate to come back to France, the investigations and been able to have enough strong written evidences and witnesses takes time you know. This is one of the biggest robbery in the meteorites history, we are the victims and you try to tell us that we shouldn't be on the list ? Don't worry, that should be resolved strongly. Bruno Carine - Original Message - From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: i...@imcamail.de Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Urgent Attention: Major Meteorite Collectionstollen List, This is very confusing. The Tucson show ended nearly a month ago on Feb. 18th. Why the long wait to make claims Anyone at the show already saw much of this material being sold by Sean and he and Bruno were very friendly with each other at the time. I saw them meeting and discussing identification and pricing of this material. Bruno had half or this material for sale and Sean had the other half for sale. In other words it was explained to me that they had made a deal in exchange for past debt obligations Bruno had with Sean's partner. Sean explained this to anyone interested . I could give you a list of people Sean told this to. He had made a legitimate deal with Bruno. This seems like somebody is doing dirty laundry in public and has no business on this list. At least not until resolved. There is always two sides to every story. Sean may be caught in the middle here but, I know him to be an honest man. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com wrote: Holy Smokes!!! Looking over the list of stolen meteorites, many of those individual pieces are worth 5X more then my collection of 12 years!!! There has to be several hundred thousand dollars or more lost/stolen on this! How in the name of Mary did anyone get away with all that inventory!? I am speechless, thankful I only have to type. Where was the security, laser alarms and Uzzi! I am very sorry to see and hear this. This is incredible. Hopefully this will help create better measures on security because this boggles my mind! Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: The Earth's Memory i...@meteorite.fr To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: i...@imcamail.de Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Urgent Attention: Major Meteorite Collectionstollen Dear list Members, it is with consternation that we annouce you that we have been victims of extortion at the beginning of the Tucson show and finaly totaly robbed at the end of the Tucson show. Fortunatly the criminals have been iddentified and one have admited that he has the material.
Re: [meteorite-list] Self-Proclaimed Planetary Pairings.
Adam, Don't forget the big one. NWA 5400. In this case even with the word of a real Scientist, people had to wait for Oxygen Isotope comparisons. Luckily, The science proved pairings but, a self pairing is never a good idea. Carl meteoritemax Cheers Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I cannot believe in this day and age there are dealers self-proclaiming pairings on planetary material? I found that most collectors expect dealers to have each and every planetary stone in a pairing series examined by a competent scientist at the bare minimum. My brother and I go as far as depositingthe customary 20% even though we may suspect a pairing. We do not make the judgment call ourselves. NWA 1110, 4880 and others come to mind. We always get a unique number and claim the weight of the entire batch when multiples are found. We submit every piece for examination and claim all of the weight at once. In the case of NWA 2999, a thin-section was taken from every pebble. Self-pairing a planetary piece is equivalent to a coin or artifact dealer grading their own inventory. Come on, get a number and make the pieces official so as to avoid confusion later on! It is disrespectful to collectors and dealers who follow the rules to take shortcuts in order to save 20% and some lab fees. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite market talk on radio
Mike, Why are you always on the attack?
The truth is that I do not risk jail by committing illegal acts. Never have and
never will.
But, if I were ever jailed I certainly would never brag about it.
The point of my post was to relinquish the blame of the state of the market
from Geoff and Steve. They are good for our field and I think they always will
be.
So, please share us your attacks. I stay away from you but would ask that you
try to keep the negative things out of the press.
You are very lucky most people admire your antics. I have to admit, you make
good press but it is unfortunately not always good GOOD press. Mike, I LOVE
YA MAN. PLEASE STOP THE ATTACKS .
CARL
METEORITEMAX
--
Cheers
Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote:
Carl, the problem is armchair warriors like you who cry and whine incessantly
but have yet to provide a real meteorite, have no idea the troubles us
hunters go through to fill the collections of the world, and don't care. You
have been involved in many scams but no recoveries. Some of us have the sack
to take risks, some, like you, do not.
Sincerely
Michael Farmer
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 1, 2013, at 10:42 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:
List,
I have been around Bob Haag (this radio voice does not sound like bob?) and
the meteorite world long enough to say that in my opinion, Bob Haag and The
Meteorite Men TV show have done nothing but, improve the popularity of
meteorites and those men have represented us well. These are the rock stars
of our field. To see the look in the eyes of the kids while getting Geoff's
autograph is truly a sight to see. Geoff should make us all proud.
So, before you knock them please look at the real cause of the problems;
1) It all started when a certain Meteorite Man was (wrongly) jailed for
attempting to export a 37 ton iron meteorite from Argentina. {Made the
press}
1) We do have NYT articles that put out bad information. {made the press}
2) Whether it's true or not The Egyptian officials themselves say it is
illegal to export their meteorites. {made the press}
3) Whether it's true or not We also have India officials saying it is
illegal to export it's meteorites. {made the press}
4) We also have incidents where people admit to being tried , convicted and
imprisoned for illegal mining of meteorites. And then further publicize it
on the local news. {made the press}
5) And of coarse there are all of the news stories about the value of
meteorites. {made the press}
6). Too many more stories to list here but, the point is that the situation
this field is in today cannot be blamed on any one single thing but can
be attributed to many things.
I see the field as growing and improving dramatically.
Our genius scientists are discovering more and more points of interest and
our semi-genius hunters are finding more and more good material.
It's all good.
Carl
Meteoritemax
--
Cheers
Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
Guido Asked:
Can anyone argue that we are better off as a result of three years
hyping the rarity and value of meteorites on cable TV and in the
nation's print media?
I am beginning to long for the good old days just a decade ago. I have
seen over a dozen countries restrict meteorite hunting including the U.S.
in the past few years, many farms and ranches are now off limits due to
the perception of being treated, fraud is at an all time high and wackos
are coming out of the woodwork at an alarming rate. Other than that, we
are great shape.
Every time a self-proclaimed spokesperson seeking fleeting fame steps up
to the plate, the rest of us are left to deal with the aftermath.
Happy Hunting,
Adam
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite market talk on radio
List,
I have been around Bob Haag (this radio voice does not sound like bob?) and the
meteorite world long enough to say that in my opinion, Bob Haag and The
Meteorite Men TV show have done nothing but, improve the popularity of
meteorites and those men have represented us well. These are the rock stars of
our field. To see the look in the eyes of the kids while getting Geoff's
autograph is truly a sight to see. Geoff should make us all proud.
So, before you knock them please look at the real cause of the problems;
1) It all started when a certain Meteorite Man was (wrongly) jailed for
attempting to export a 37 ton iron meteorite from Argentina. {Made the press}
1) We do have NYT articles that put out bad information. {made the press}
2) Whether it's true or not The Egyptian officials themselves say it is illegal
to export their meteorites. {made the press}
3) Whether it's true or not We also have India officials saying it is illegal
to export it's meteorites. {made the press}
4) We also have incidents where people admit to being tried , convicted and
imprisoned for illegal mining of meteorites. And then further publicize it on
the local news. {made the press}
5) And of coarse there are all of the news stories about the value of
meteorites. {made the press}
6). Too many more stories to list here but, the point is that the situation
this field is in today cannot be blamed on any one single thing but can be
attributed to many things.
I see the field as growing and improving dramatically.
Our genius scientists are discovering more and more points of interest and our
semi-genius hunters are finding more and more good material.
It's all good.
Carl
Meteoritemax
--
Cheers
Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote:
Guido Asked:
Can anyone argue that we are better off as a result of three years
hyping the rarity and value of meteorites on cable TV and in the
nation's print media?
I am beginning to long for the good old days just a decade ago. I have seen
over a dozen countries restrict meteorite hunting including the U.S. in the
past few years, many farms and ranches are now off limits due to the
perception of being treated, fraud is at an all time high and wackos are
coming out of the woodwork at an alarming rate. Other than that, we are
great shape.
Every time a self-proclaimed spokesperson seeking fleeting fame steps up to
the plate, the rest of us are left to deal with the aftermath.
Happy Hunting,
Adam
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chebarkul, Russia - Pultusk peas 2.0?
Bjorn, You may be right but, this seems to be a lot like Carancas as well. Lots of peas and the rest is soup. Also, like Carancas an ordinary chondrite, big in the news and historically important and high priced at first but, due to small sizes it might be very easy to satisfy collectors needs and the high price will fade quickly. Hopefully they find a lot more when things thaw out to keep the price affordable. Carl meteopritemax -- Cheers Bjorn Sorheim astro...@online.no wrote: List, Looking at the images I posted earlier today and the other smaller fragments goverment scientists collected plus information about 1000+ small black meteorites from maybe one village, it seems this fall deserves to be compared to the massive fall of pea-sized meteorites like Pultusk, Poland 1868 (H5). An asteroid with 1 tons of mass will retain a very large percentage of its cosmic velocity, so the energy will break it up in probably just smaller fragments. So maybe what is out there in South Ural is mostly these meteorite peas? On the light side The Pultusk fall with 18! total fragments had 200 over 1 kg, with largest 9 kg, so there is still hope... Bjørn Sørheim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Russia meteorite ebay fraud
This is ridiculous but, Not to worry. You cannot be ripped off on ebay any longer. With Ebay's buyer protection policy ebay will assure you get your money back. It is now bullet proof. All you do is file a not as described. complaint and ebay will return your money (even if they have to pay it their self) . This works 100% of the time. So, these idiots are just wasting their time as long as the buyers complain. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers André Moutinho mouti...@bol.com.br wrote: Hello all, It seems someone lost $ 4000.00 on a fake russian meteorite listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111013565868?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 Only few rock samples were found and this seems a big iron. Cant belive how stupid people buy such things on ebay.. Best Andre __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Russia meteorite ebay fraud
Hi MikeG, You are old ebay school. Ebay now credits fees and they also turn dead beats over to an agency for collection. They will now ruin the sellers credit if they don't pay so, in the long run these scammers will pay one way or another. So, don't ever be afraid to buy anything on ebay. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: True, but just like with insurance fraud, the rest of the honest buyers and sellers are left holding the tab for the gullible-bidders and the scammers who prey on them. The buyer pays $4100 via PayPal to some scam-artist. Buyer gets nothing or coprolite from the seller. Buyer files a eBay/PayPal dispute against the seller. Buyer wins the dispute case by default because the seller has no intention of refunding the sale. Buyer gets his money back. Seller gets to keep the money and run off, albeit with their account(s) suspended or flagged. The venue (eBay in this case) keeps their fees, regardless of which way the case goes. eBay and/or PayPal writes off the loss on their taxes at the end of the year. The rest of us pay for it. Lather, rinse, repeat. On 2/19/13, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: This is ridiculous but, Not to worry. You cannot be ripped off on ebay any longer. With Ebay's buyer protection policy ebay will assure you get your money back. It is now bullet proof. All you do is file a not as described. complaint and ebay will return your money (even if they have to pay it their self) . This works 100% of the time. So, these idiots are just wasting their time as long as the buyers complain. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers André Moutinho mouti...@bol.com.br wrote: Hello all, It seems someone lost $ 4000.00 on a fake russian meteorite listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111013565868?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 Only few rock samples were found and this seems a big iron. Cant belive how stupid people buy such things on ebay.. Best Andre __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Alan, Carl, Jeff, Ted, Bernd, Martin, Adam, Greg, MikeG, List, All due respect to all view points here but, there are certain terms that were a good idea that never really caught on such as RALEWITE. I think this was first brought to our attention by Martin back in May of 2009 if you look in the list archives. This best describes a phenomena that so far has only been seen in one fall that I know of but as a hunter is an extremely important discovery made by and named in honor of Stefan Ralew. Because after all hunters are the first in the discovery process. This observation was made in recognition of a very unusual rubble mixture of fusion crustal material and tiny rocks found on the exterior which penetrated well into the interior of the Tamedaght meteorite fall. This mixture of bits and pieces of the main mass itself mixed in with melted fusion crust material is a sight to see because it is a very thick layer. Too thick to be a normal fusion crust. If we did not know it was from an observed fall, most people would not even have acknowledged that it was part of a real meteorite. I have been actively around meteorites since 1989 and attend the Tucson show every year to look at rocks and I have only seen this TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA once. This fusion crust type is so rare it deserves it's own name in order that it does not get overlooked by future hunters as a meteorwrong. (sorry I don't have any of my own pictures to post) Carl, Another potentially good reason for NWA 7034 having it's own name is because it may open a flood gate that has previously been locked shut. I mean had I shown a water rich breccia Meteorite prospect to an accredited meteoriticist before now they would have sent me on my way and not given it a second look. This fact alone deserves a huge high five to Dr. Carl Agee. Thank you so much for not sending this amazing discovery to the pigeon hole of meteorwrongs. Another new Mars rock that deserves acknowledgement (once one is found) is the rover's recent discovery of a rock with Earth -like chemistry, a type which lacks Mg and Fe and is rich in feldspar-like minerals. see link below; http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/12/us-space-mars-idUSBRE89B02Q20121012 Kind Regards, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote: The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus don't pollute the literature. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term Gusev basalt is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re:
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
If you go with Habibite we could call them SHACN (pronounced shaken) . shake, rattle and roll. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Hi Carl, It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching on some SNACS... Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones making the current stone count at about a dozen or so IF they are indeed paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered from Moroccan dealers as pairings. If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first NWA 7034 one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g stone, has this been confirmed yet? The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing in at 84 grams. If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool for such a unique meteorite! Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to light! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Carl Agee Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose saharaite. So we now have the meteorites from Mars or SCANS S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 5102a808.5040...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the SNCB. It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] : Tour of Space Station
List, This is both educational and a fascinating experience. A must see. Enjoy. Carl Meteoritemax Hi - absolutely fascinating! Thank you my friend a fascinating trip through Space.I am sharing with friends and family. Click on or copy and paste link below; http://www.youtube.com/embed/doN4t5NKW-k No virus found in this message. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: OT: Flu shot before Tucson?
Michael, Your PS. message might be a bit harsh. Many people believe the flu shot is primarily a money making scheme and their are many better alternatives. I have no opinion but, this read is interesting. see link ; http://www.bewellbuzz.com/general/10-reasons-flu-shots-dangerous-flu/ Best to you, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: This topic seams to go on forever.however, the most common Means of infection would be touching something someone who Is ill or is about to show symptoms has touchedsuch as an elevator Button. We touch our faces some incredable amount of times per day - In the dozens and flue germs, I am told, are usually spread BEFORE The person has symptoms. I always touch the elevator button with my left elbow...or the right One if the left is unavailable. I HATE shaking hands, but it is rude not To, so use tons of antiseptic hand cleaner. Back to meteorites? Michael PS: If you haven't gotten your flue shot you are both ignorant and irresponsible to others (Excepting those with allergies or other Medical reasons preventing it, of course) On 1/21/13 8:12 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I got to thinking (sometimes a dangerous thing) about what somebody said here on the list about the flu being spread by flatulence. My neighbor swears that he caught the flu this way while he was momentarily trapped in a hotel elevator with a sick and morbidly obese woman for 30 to 45 seconds. From what I was lead to believe, she damaged the air with a noxious biscuit and he showed symptoms a day or two later. He is still very angry about it since he last a couple of weeks worth of income. I read up on the subject and think he is accusing the wrong culprit. This is what the CDC has to say: Person to Person People with flu can spread it to others up to about 6 feet away. Most experts think that flu viruses are spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Less often, a person might also get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it and then touching their own mouth or nose. (To avoid this, people should stay away from sick people and stay home if sick. It also is important to wash hands often with soap and water. If soap and water are not available, use an alcohol-based hand rub. Linens, eating utensils, and dishes belonging to those who are sick should not be shared without washing thoroughly first. Eating utensils can be washed either in a dishwasher or by hand with water and soap and do not need to be cleaned separately. Further, frequently touched surfaces should be cleaned and disinfected at home, work and school, especially if someone is ill.) Enough from me who is almost fully recovered and has more energy now than in the last three weeks, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What I just learned about 'Finds'
Kevin, This is why I posted the following question to Jeff that you evidently missed? I had the same concern about how can we be sure the find is from the fall we think it's from? Without a Scientific test it is well, a guess at best. Because as noted in the question to Jeff, Visual Freshness alone matters not. So, other than the case where someone comes home to find a big hole in the roof and a big rock sitting on the floor inside (an obvious unobserved fall) it seems to me their needs to be a verifiable way to prove when it fell otherwise we will see mistakes even if by accident. Because as already stated, we see falling stars all the time that you could attribute to your find. In my previous post back on the 7th I asked; Jeff, Thanks once again for your information. I have a question; What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, one year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? Just for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a second fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an olive grove?) about one year later than his first fall find and it still looked fresh. Thanks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: -- Cheers Carl Meteoritemax Kevin Kichinka mars...@gmail.com wrote: Team Meteorite: I contributed to the list a couplf of days ago what I thought was a fun, satire piece on Dr. Jeff Grossman's humbly proffered and revolutionary system to characterize 'finds'. I followed this issue in the archives, and must admit I just didn't agree with this complication I felt would end up becoming another marketing tool to raise prices. But what I perceived wasn't the reality. At the end of the 'hilarity' I concluded that smarter folks than me will decide this issue. I'm glad Jeff is trying something new. And it didn't take long for those 'smarter folks' to inform me of what the real issue is. And it's not about anything 'funny'. Some folks among us are trying to pass off fresh meteorites as something they are not for major monetary gain. We all know that there are constant reports of meteors- observed by radar or witnesses- that are not recovered. Wait, here's one! $ It is financially and legally difficult for entrusted parties to counter such a claim of a 'freshly recovered fall', even if it completely chemically matches a known meteorite. If this was Jeff's intention, to try to create some framework to 'signal' the legitimacy of a claimed, recovered fall, I don't know, and I don't want to 'assume' this. I've already done the 'ass thing' once. But knowing now about this subterfuge, I for one, will open my ears and eyes (and shut my mouth and lay down my quill) to consider anything Jeff suggests that will help all of us avoid purchasing such illicit material. And as I wrote, and sincerely meant, I'm glad Jeff is trying something new. Let's hope he succeeds. Kevin Kichinka Rio del Oro, Costa Rica 'The Global Meteorite Price Report - 2013' www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com (also available as an ebook on Amazon/Barnes and Noble) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 3rd Annual Eating Around Tucson - 2013
John, Chuy's on Speedway is closed due to immigration violations. But right next door is a wine shop called the Rum Runner that has it's own restaurant inside called The Dish. It is fine dinning at it's best and many consider it to be Tucson's Finest restaurant. see here; http://www.rumrunnertucson.com/thedish/index.html Mi Nidito is Tucson's finest Mexican restaurant. Try the presidential platter. This is actually what President Clinton ordered when visiting Tucson a few years ago. And easily worth the long wait. But, Rosa's is a close second for Mexican. Too many celebrities to list eat here when in Tucson. Check out the pictures on the walls. On the East side at Broadway at Wilmot the best breakfast is at Brawley's. Low Low price for amazing food. My 2 cents. And I'm lucky enough to live here in Tucson. Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers John Teague volg...@icx.net wrote: Hey, List Members! (I 'seem' to have misplaced some of the e-mails that folks sent me last year with 'additions' for this list! Sorry to those that did! If you will resend them to me, I will make a better effort at updating the list! New suggestions are ALWAYS welcome!) I have it on good authority that Tucson is fast approaching! With that in mind, I am once again giving my “Annual Eating Around Tucson” list. This list has been put together with over twenty years of attending the shows. These are my opinions (well, my wife, Cookie, too!) only. I have no vested interest in any of these establishments, no free food, etc! I just like good food! Maybe you will find my/our tastes different from yours but all of these are worth a try! I’m leaving for Tucson Thursday of next week! This will be my second year to make the 2200 mile (each way!) drive to Tucson. Cookie is flying out later! Guess that she is a bit smarter than I! My first time attending the main show last year was great! I'm really looking forward to this year's show as fluorite (probably my favorite mineral!) is the theme! Being able to spend a full month in Tucson was so great last year that I'm doing it again this year! I am adding some new locations suggested by list members last year after my initial post. I did get to try some of them and enjoyed them VERY much. I hope to add more this year! * Pat's Drive In, 1202 West Niagara Street, 520-624-0891 I should not list this first, but I AM! I first read about Pat's in Arizona Highways magazine. It is a tradition in Arizona! It is on a side street off N. Grande Ave, between Speedway and St. Marys. It is near the condo that we rent each year. I had driven within half a block of it for years and did not know it existed! If you like the old drive in restaurants, this IS the place for you! If you like greasy fries by the pound, this is for you! If you like GREAT chili hotdogs, this IS the place for you, please note that they have three degrees of heat for their chili! We have three favorites that we think everyone should try at least once. In no particular order: * La Fuente Restaurant, 1749 N. Oracle Rd., 520-623-8659 REALLY good Mexican/Tex-Mex food. The lunch buffet is very good and very reasonable. If you're there for dinner, be sure to order the Guacamole made table-side. It is VERY GOOD! * Silver Saddle Steak House, 6th Ave. I-10 (310 E. Benson Highway), 520-622-6253 This place is near downtown and has some of the best steak that I've had in Tucson. If you're going for dinner, it is best to get there early or be prepared to wait 30 minutes to an hour. It IS worth the wait! I do not think that they take reservations. * Lil Abner's Steakhouse, 8501 N Silverbell Rd., 520-744-2800 This is a MUST for Tucson show visitors. I remember going there a lot of years ago when this place was truly in the middle of nowhere! If you go this year, you'll she how that has changed. It use to be a drive out into the desert! Any of the show weekends will have tons of show folks there! The steaks rival Silver Saddle but everything is served with a salad, beans, and bread! LOVE the atmosphere there! * Daisy Mae's Steak House, 2735 W. Anklam Rd., 520-792-. This is just down the street from the condo we rent while in Tucson. Great steaks! Other recommendations: Breakfast recommendations: * Blue Willow, 2616 N. Campbell Ave. Tucson, AZ 520-327-7577 If you want to take time for a nice, leisurely breakfast, this is THE place! Food is great, prices are reasonable. It is in a house converted to a restaurant. * Los Betos Mexican Food, 914 E Speedway Blvd, 520-884-5291 and 32 N Campbell Ave 520-628-7462 plus several other around town. If you're looking for something that will keep you going through MOST of a day visiting shows without having to stop to eat lunch, try the burritos at any Los Betos! There are many breakfast burritos available and VERY reasonably priced. Last year the one on Speedway was closed for remodeling. I hope it has
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Jeff, Thanks once again for your information. I have a question; What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, one year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? Just for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a second fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an olive grove?) about one year later than his first fall find and it still looked fresh. Thanks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the last three are types of finds. Jeff On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of fall. The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the possible fall category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Mike Bandli fuzzf...@comcast.net wrote: If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ;^] -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of h...@meteorhall.com Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM To: Anne Black Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a Fall or a Find. Concise! Cheers, Fred Hall Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved
[meteorite-list] Friday's forecast
List, December 21st is not looking too good. see link; http://ericfm.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/7-day-forecast-friday-december-21st-high-temperatures-doom/ Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus Emails
Obviously, I did not send these either. I got them from about 10 different people myself. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Just a quick note to let users know that I didn't send out any Hey emails. I received one from Carl Ezsparza's email address claiming to be me. If you get one, delete it and do not click on any links. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What has NASA done to make your life awesome?
List, Here is a cool web site that highlights the Good things that NASA has done for all of us. A must see. Click below; http://wtnasa.com/ Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Shooting Stars explained
List, There is a lot of crap floating around in space. click here for explanation by NASA; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54eTVpHZvb8 Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Earth-like chemistry on Mars
List, In view of this new information, are there any Scientists willing to take a second look at some crusted rocks that were previously deemed to be from Earth? I have a few prevous rejects myself. http://news.yahoo.com/nasas-mars-rover-finds-rock-earth-chemistry-013132681.html Best regards, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hello All, ...
Darryl, I'm sure everybody only this list would agree with you. Bernd Rocks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com wrote: Haven't been following what's going on here, but Bernd is a prince among princes. d, On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Bernd V. Pauli wrote: Thank you all very, very much! Of course, I never saw myself as a spammer but, nevertheless, it was really shocking to see someone chose to call me a spammer! I wanted to send a personal Thank you mail - especially to those list members who sent private mails encouraging me to ignore such negativity but, for some unknown reason, my computer says: Communication failed. So, again, thank you very much ... A.M. + D.P. and M.H. and quite a few others! As for B.C., please, remember that there are several hundred list members, listees, listoids, and some of them consider my posts a positive contribution to this list, others may choose a different perspective but tolerance and the voice of reason should tell you that your personal opinion is not the universal truth! Best wishes to ALL of you, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Fwd: Chicken gun
Chicken Gun Too funny not to share! Sometimes it does take a rocket scientist! Scientists at NASA built a gun specifically to launch standard 4 pound dead chickens at the windshields of airliners, military jets and the space shuttle, all traveling at maximum velocity. The idea is to simulate the frequent incidents of collisions with airborne fowl to test the strength of the windshields. British engineers heard about the gun and were eager to test it on the windshields of their new high speed trains. Arrangements were made, and a gun was sent to the British engineers. When the gun was fired, the engineers stood shocked as the chicken hurled out of the barrel, crashed into the shatterproof shield, smashed it to smithereens, blasted through the control console, snapped the engineer's back-rest in two, and embedded itself in the back wall of the cabin, like an arrow shot from a bow. The horrified Brits sent NASA the disastrous results of the experiment, along with the designs of the windshield and begged the U.S. scientists for suggestions. NASA responded with a one-line memo -- Defrost the chicken. (True Story) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Jeff, I would say that given your position and all you've done for us, we are in very good hands. A huge THANK YOU for all you do. Sincerely, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Jim, Did your correspondence include monetary penalties? Because like the Obamacare sometimes penalties are cheaper than the alternative. And once penalties are paid The other obvious question is enforcement. What do they do when/ if caught? Do they dump them out? Do they confiscate them? Obviously it is largely an honor system bu,t the bottom line is for new falls that in order to legally sell them you must provide a copy of the permit otherwise they would taint a collection. Right? This is sad news. Carl meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Russian Diamond Mine under astroid
List, Has this been covered here yet? Is this a true coincidence? An asteroid hit an existing Diamond mine? --http://news.yahoo.com/russia-reveals-shiny-state-secret-awash-diamonds-131212873.html Carl Meteoritemax Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on find coords
Marc, As a business owner it seems to me you are mainly obligated to satisfy your customers needs. These are the folks paying you for your services. No one else. And as such you might consider everything else secondary. In order to be faithful to your customers the co-ords should be kept between you and your customers. A classic example was the Whetstone fall. U of A agreed to keep co-ords quiet until the members of that exclusive group were done searching on their own. To this very day I think the only reason outsiders know the location is because Jack told people that he found 'Galleta Flats' in the same strewn field as whetstone. And on that note. I was very active in following data that was reported to the list. From the data given of it's trajectory, on a map I tracked the material far more to the east of where it actually ended up being found. I thought it should have landed east of the airport. Not west of it. I suppose that was due to high wings but that data did get us all to the same general area. Thank you to whomever it was that supplied that data to the entire list free of charge. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Marc Fries chief_scient...@galacticanalytics.com wrote: Greetings all I've been talking with a few people about logging the Battle Mountain meteorites, and I'd like to start some discussion on the topic of find coordinates. This is NOT directed at any one person, but I would like to editorialize a bit. I'm getting a lot of push-back about printing find coordinates and I'd like to open the topic to general discussion. Historically, the locations of found meteorites have been a closely guarded secret. That made a lot of sense when meteorite hunting relied most heavily on eyewitness reports. A hunter could easily put in many, many miles of walking before coming across a meteorite. For finds that are made with weather radar, however, I don't think its the same situation. When I post radar analyses, it is like posting a treasure map that says, Go Here. At that point everyone knows where the meteorites are, and it seems to me that the locations of individual stones aren't nearly as important as they were in the past. (Strewn fields without detailed radar data are another matter, of course.) Where those locations do matter are to A) the science behind describing the meteorite fall, and B) the value of the individual meteorite since a well-documented meteorite should be worth more than a random stone from a given fall. I am a scientist, and my first instinct is to collect, analyze, and -share- data. I understand where that is at odds with the level of secrecy needed in the past, but I think that that level of secrecy is no longer needed and actually works contrary to the value of meteorites, both monetary and scientific. On the Galactic Analytics website, I'm willing to go against my better instincts and hide find locations, at least until a scientific paper is released describing the fall. But to be honest, I think that's a little silly - I'll basically have a table showing meteorites with the find locations redacted, and then you can scroll down the page a bit and see a map showing where the meteorites are. So let me throw this out there as a general question - is it really important to hide the find locations? Cheers, Marc Fries __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Meteorites FROM Earth
Gary, I have a question. You said; The escape velocity for the excavated material from asteroid impact would be moving far too slowly to make it to another star system. The same would be true for impacts in another star system to reach ours. This would be impossible. What about Comets such as Haley's? Do they stay completely within our star system or do they travel beyond it? If so, couldn't they produce meteorites that land on various bodies? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Dick Lipke richardli...@comcast.net wrote: I'm one of those old dogs that can't be taught NEW tricks. I have always believed that nothing is impossible. We have seen this long before 1492 A.D. Look at the pyramids of Egypt. Leonardo da Vinci and all his science fiction sketches. Dick - Original Message - The escape velocity for the excavated material from asteroid impact would be moving far too slowly to make it to another star system. The same would be true for impacts in another star system to reach ours. This would be impossible. gary On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:25 AM, Dick Lipke richardli...@comcast.net wrote: Sorry, but all I was trying to say is that not only in this solar system have impacts of meteorites thrown material into space with such force that they become meteorites for another planet or a planets moon in our solar system. But like wise the same can happen in a another distant solar system. The same for another solar system from another galaxy. Why couldn't these end up on Earth to baffle scientists with those mysterious elements never thought possible? Wasn't trying to say fossils, sorry. Dick - Original Message - Dick Lifeforms that are perserved forms replaced by rock will have the evidence of the rock that has replaced the original form. Martian minerals assembledges are not identical to those of Earth. The probability that a massive enough rock containing fossilized life forms from Earth survived a reentry through the Martian atmoshpere is low. Adding the probability that Curriosity would find one is also very low and even if it did, the minerals will vary from the minerals of its surrounding rock mass on Mars. The cummulative probability of Curriosity finding an Earth fosil on Mars that would not be identified as in an Earth mineral assembledge is I believe vanishingly small. Richard Kunter -Original Message- From: Dick Lipke richardli...@comcast.net To: imca i...@imcamail.de Sent: Thu, Aug 23, 2012 7:15 am Subject: Re: [IMCA] Meteorites FROM Earth That also applies to meteorites from another planet of another solar system in this galaxy and from a planet of another solar system from another galaxy. Dick (Richard Lipke) ,IMCA 1155 - Original Message - Hello All, While the website is being repaired.. As meteorites continue to fall onto our chunk of fortunate rock and are scrutinized for their characteristics and the hopeful telltale evidence of some other life form(s) and as very large meteors/asteroids have impacted our surface in the past which most likely produced large amounts of ejector which are out there heading towards some other landing spot... What if Curiosity...while it is looking for the building blocks of life on Mars, finds evidence of such life producing compounds or better yet photographs, say, a trilobite or ammonitehow would it be determined that is indeed Martian as opposed to extraterrestrial. One can only imagine where Our meteorites have landed. John Lutzon IMCA# 1896 Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites PO Box 4175, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Slooh.com event Sunday OT
Enjoy. http://events.slooh.com/ See asteroid fly through solar system on Live Sunday. Carl meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer fall term
Regine, MikeG, I hate to beat a dead horse but, There actually could be such a thing as a Hammer Fall. Take Carancas for example; This fall was not only observed but, it hit a man made water well and killed a couple of animals while excavating a crater. This fall is generally accepted as a Hammer Fall because we believe it was one huge stone that crashed and exploded. So, then the question is; Is this a hammer stone as well? Of coarse it is. That is IF it was indeed caused by one single stone that exploded on impact. This is a fact that is in dispute amongst Scientists. There may have been a swarm of stones that hit at once. We do have evidence of this in stones that were found that were nearly fully fusion crusted. Had it been just one single stone where did the nearly fully crusted stones come from? This lends doubt that in fact all of the stones are Hammer Stones. However, from a sales standpoint. Having one of these ultra rare fully crusted stones would not be such a bad thing to have. I would think they would be far more rare and therefore far more valuable to both the collector (museum) or Scientist for the simple reason of aesthetics and that it does make for an interesting argument about how many stones did fall. As for the use of the word Michael Blood coined Hammer. He could just of easily have used any number of other words to describe this end result. Swatter, clapper, striker or anything else one does with an object in his had while hitting something. The other really funny term is the use of the word Fall at all. I mean try to explain that to a newby? I mean after all, Aren't all meteorites Falls in the true sense of the word. How else could they have gotten here? So, the use of this term necessitates an explanation. You have to explain that not all meteorites are falls. A newby would look at you like you are nuts. The word fresh fall would make more sense but, most of the time the Fresh is left out. Even when a stone is called a fresh Fall science can only determine the time it fell within years not hour or minutes so even then... If you find a stone. How do you really know when it fell. You did find a fall but was it fresh? Or does it just look fresh? Too Funny. Best, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de wrote: Well, I'm referring to an overall suspicious odour when it comes to hammer falls on sales pages. It is so imprecise - as many other things related to it. What comes to my mind right now is that I downloaded a small jpg once from a website on hammers when I started getting interested in the historic side of meteorites. I was new to the subject and took the picture as a genuine photograph of a man from the New Concord area sitting on a dead colt which seemed to be collateral damage. I researched my arse off only to find out that the photo is not related and the incident most likely never happened. The unreliability of the New Concord horse kill has been discussed several times on the list in the meantime, yet the picture is still on the website. I hear you say these things are completely unrelated, and perhaps they are. And in the end this might all be peanuts even. Actually, right now, I ask myself what the heck I'm doing here. I actually enjoy doing the detective work on which account is true and which is doubtful! But why anyone actively wants to play a part in the confusion other than to cash in is a mystery to me. Enough said, Best wishes, Regine Von: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com An: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de CC: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Gesendet: 20:20 Dienstag, 12.Juni 2012 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer fall term Hi Regine, I can't argue that point. I can only say that we (as meteorite buffs) should do our best to educate the newbies, or make resources available that will educate the newbies. I think many of us do that. I also think we could do better if we really tried. But I don't think everyone who uses the term hammer fall is engaging in marketing or trying to mislead people for financial gain. Maybe some dealers do that. If they do, I don't agree with that and they should stop. But the term hammer fall probably isn't going away, and if it does, it will be replaced by another term that means the same thing. And we can't excuse people for making rash purchases. The buyer does bear some responsibility to educate themselves before spending money on a meteorite (or anything). I guess this gets back to some of the most fundamental lessons of collecting things. Do one's homework. Buyer beware. Know your seller. Check references (or feedback). :) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook:
Re: [meteorite-list] Never underestimate or dismiss Spectroscopy
Benjamin, You may be right about Vesta and Eucrites but, without an actual sample return it is still merely an educated guess. Even meteorites that are found within the same strewn field here on Earth require verification of pairing based largely on Oxygen Isotopes matching up. Without this very important tool we would not have confirmation of any parent bodies including the Moon and Mars. So, it seems to me the most important verification needed is in fact Vesta. After all this is the one we think we have many samples of in our collections. Albedo is great but, if we could verify from albedo alone we would already have matches for many planets and asteroids and we simply do not. According to the latest probes of Mercury we still don't know what it's surface rocks would compare to in our collections. What if it ends up having the same Oxygen Isotopes as the Earth and Moon and Aubrites and some irons like IIIAB and IAB? This info would greatly advance our knowledge. The Return of samples mission was chosen for Dante Lauretta's mission for a reason. We cannot state a good case for any origin without study (including isotopic) of return samples. Or at least remote study as we did with Mars. Carl meteoritemax (520) 979-9865 -- Cheers Benjamin P. Sun bpsun2...@gmail.com wrote: If a dealer or someone were to claim that their Tatahouine or NWA 2060 came from Vesta, I would not counter or argue with him. Simply because he has more evidence and proof pointing his way now. You should say that the(1%) rare odd non-Vestan ungrouped anomalous eucrite may or may not be from Vesta instead. At this time, a sample return mission from Mars, Phobos, Europa or Titan would make more sense than a sample return mission from Vesta. On 5/16/12, Benjamin P. Sun bpsun2...@gmail.com wrote: Generally speaking, stating to the HED clan of meteorites are mainly derived from Vesta is acceptable so long as we understand ( Caveat #1) that they could also be from any of the Vesta family: any of those 6000+ bodies populating the Vesta orbital region. Many of those are over 1 km size and most but not all have Vesta matching spectra/albedos. I'd consider that the many Vestiods of the Vesta family were and are still pieces of their parent body, Vesta. Not counting the odd interloper or co-habitant of the group region, of course. Just like the many martian and lunar meteoriods(martianiod? lunoid?) out there floating in space, blasted off their PB's, were and still are considered pieces of Mars and the Moon respectively. Speaking for myself, it matters very little whether my HED came from Vesta directly or indirectly from a Vestiod. In the end, it's still from Vesta. The second caveat is covered elsewhere in recent list commentary: the fact that we do have some non-Vestian eucrites was panned as insignificant. Well, Au contraire-- the existence of a but a solitary example is proof that the basaltic, sub/minor-planetary differentiation process happened on more than a single body. Adding credibility to the planetary-science model. Naively stating over and over that all eucrites come from Vesta won't make it true. Doing so retards the advancement meteorite science. Keep in mind that the word eucrite and eucritic was a rather broad and loosely used term back in the (old) day(s). Scientists now are more specific in it's usage, accurate and clear with their classifications . So some of those old eucrites and rare non-Vestian eucrites need to be re-examined and possibly reclassified. From Wikipedia: Eucrites are achondritic stony meteorites, many of which originate from the surface of the asteroid 4 Vesta and as such are part of the HED meteorite group. They are the most common achondrite group with well over 100 distinct finds at present. Eucrites consist of basaltic rock from the crust of 4 Vesta or a similar parent body. They are mostly composed of Ca-poor pyroxene, pigeonite, and Ca-rich plagioclase (anorthite). I happen to agree with this definition. Also: Eucrites get their name from the Greek word eukritos meaning easily distinguished. This refers to the silicate minerals in them, which can be easily distinguished because of their relatively large grain size. Eucrite is also a now obsolete term for bytownite-gabbro found on Earth. The term was used as a rock type name for some of the Paleogene igneous rocks of Scotland. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Moon rocks
List, As usual, Sterling is right again. This thread was pretty well covered in a similar situation with a different eBay offering on Feb. 3, 2011. as can be found in the archives. Here is a portion of that thread that is rather interesting reading.; [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Matson, Robert D. ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com Thu Feb 3 19:52:29 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygregr at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts is carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults. Many lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The beautiful Space Window in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's landing on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on loan to the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts (and Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the lunar samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be displayed at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was loaned a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried to the summit of Mount Everest. Some diplomatic gifts of lunar samples have found their way onto the black market. A notorious case is a sample presented to the people of Honduras back in 1969. This sample turned up during a NASA Inspector General sting which was designed to catch dealers of fake lunar samples. To the agents' surprise, they were offered a genuine lunar rock: asking price, $5 million. A meeting was arranged and the rock (and presumably, the seller) was seized. Another lunar sample was stolen from a museum in Malta between 1990 and 1994; it was recovered in another sting operation in 1998. The federal government forbids private ownership of any Apollo sample. Yet, such samples show up every now and then. The most common form they take is dust stuck to adhesive tape (an easy way to clean the surface of some exposed sample container, tool, or space suit used on the lunar surface). Mr. Sheffield's sample is likely to be one of these pieces. Its status, I was surprised to find out, is legally uncertain. Although NASA has sued in court to recover any such bootleg sample, no prosecution has succeeded, except for those caught (literally) in the act of theft. In an embarrassing incident for
[meteorite-list] AD lunar meteorite and Space Rocket
List, Please check out my Ebay listings for a small Lunar Meteorite and a Rocket to the Moon. click link; http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25_trksid=p3984 thanks for looking. Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Planet Mercury Even Weirder Than We Thought
Paul, Wow. This is exciting news. Once again, it sounds like a meteorite from Mercury would be either all silica (glass) or a combination of glass and sulfide depending on the depth of the impact that dislodged the material. My question is this; should we be looking for silicate meteorites? Or taking a second look at past rejects because they were to glassy? Too much quartz even? Best regards, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: Planet Mercury Even Weirder Than We Thought Wired Science, by Adam Mann, March 21, 2012 | http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/dynamic-mercury-geology/?pid=3477pageid=101963 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/dynamic-mercury-geology/?pid=3480pageid=101963 Mercury has been 'dynamic world' by Paul Rincon BBC News, March 21, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17248776 Mercury's Surprising Core and Landscape Curiosities ScienceDaily, March 21, 2012 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120321105505.htm The paper is: Zuber, M. T., D. E. Smith, and many others, 2012, Topography of the Northern Hemisphere of Mercury from MESSENGER Laser Altimetry. Science Express. Published Online March 21, 2012 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2012/03/20/science.1218805.abstract http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2012/03/20/science.1218805/suppl/DC1 MESSENGER Planetary Conference Multimedia Page http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/presscon11_multi.html Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AZ Teacher asking for help - Geology
Jim, Mike, list, My wife has taught kindergarten in public shools for 28 years and she has used this 'DonorsChoose.org' web site successfully herself in the past. She has also been very disappointed with this site in the past. The problem with this web site is that , if the teacher is unsuccessful in collecting 100% of her funds needed by the deadline. She forfeits the entire amount and DonorsChiise.org keeps 100% of whatever amount of money was actually collected. In other words this teacher may get nothing , nada , zero, of the money you gave. So, it seems this org loves to see people ask for large sums because they keep the money collected in it's entirety and the teacher gets nothing if they fail to collect all of the money requested. Further more. This teacher has no say in where the money collected ends up going. In my opinion if they were fair they would allow the teacher to set a lower goal that would match the funds collected. But they do not. So, unless you are willing to give 100% of the money she needs she may end up with nothing. Best regards, Carl meteoritemax Cheers Jim Wooddell nf11...@npgcable.com wrote: Hi Mike and thank you for your consideration. Many hundreds of teachers are using this service and I too think the recommend fee is a bit high for a Non-Profit. Still, I donated as it was this teachers choice to use that service and to apply the suggested, non mandatory contribution to the site that helps promote the request. I did not use the PayPal feature, so that is good info. May you would consider contacting this teach direct and helping! That would completely eliminate the website organization. Just a thought, if you wish to help. Jim Jim Wooddell http://k7wfr.us - Original Message - From: Mike Fiedler mlfied...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AZ Teacher asking for help - Geology Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but the contribution mechanism kind of annoyed me. I think few things are more deserving of support than a teacher taking the initiative to make science exciting and compelling to young people. I nearly contributed, but then ran into some deal-breakers: While the 'DonorsChoose.org' web site does accept contributions by PayPal, they require that the donor 'pay-by-check' . . . The whole idea of PayPal is to not share unnecessarily your personal info. I would accept PayPal as it functions on ebay. . . . payee gets my email, my address, and the money. Secondly, once you share your email, there seems no way to 'opt-out' of being hit up with unrelated requests. I appreciate it when a person who shares a common interest sends me info about a worthy cause. Case in point: I recently contributed to the project discussed at the URL http://projectfreedom.bbnow.org/about.php , but it was because another recumbent bike enthusiast referred me to the site. Shared interest is the basis of 'community'. But I don't want some anonymous ''organizing entrepreneur' who accepts an (OPTIONAL???) donation equal to 17% of a project's costs deciding what I need to learn about next. And emailing me a steady stream of 'opportunities' to make 'optional' donations to his personal pocket. I get way too many unfocused solicitations as it is. That 17% seems a hefty cut to 'OPTIONALLY' accept for the service of sharing info, and processing the collection of EFTs. Just how optional is optional? The verbiage alone sets my teeth on edge. OK, end of off topic rant. Hope everyone has a nice day! -- Mike On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:00 AM, meteorite-list-requ...@meteoritecentral.com wrote: Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to meteorite-list-requ...@meteoritecentral.com You can reach the person managing the list at meteorite-list-ow...@meteoritecentral.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest... Today's Topics: 1. AD - new pallasite Conception Junction, MO (Karl Aston) 2. AD: New material, rare American finds, and more (Mike Bandli) 3. Re: Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? (Sterling K. Webb) 4. AD: Special: An unique and truly exotic anomalous Mesosiderite - NWA 7025 (Chladnis Heirs) 5. this time it is for good (steve arnold) 6. Re: Solar flares (ot) ? or are ions meteorites? (Chris Peterson) 7. Re: this time it is for good (Mike Groetz) 8. Tissint? Yes, it tis! (and a tease on Shergotty) (Kevin Kichinka) 9. test (JoshuaTreeMuseum) 10. **Ad** Last Minute eBay Reminder New Arizona Find, Tissint.. (Larry Atkins) 11. Re: this time it is for
[meteorite-list] AD. Carancas
List, Please check out my Carancas listing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280836793039 Thanks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] First Meteorite Found in Antarctica?
Ron, Don, All, According to this BBC Antiques Road Show video of 2 years ago. A meteorite was found by Sir Ernest Shackelton in 1908 on his Nimrod expedition and it is inscribed with that date right on it. It is currently in Bill Gates collection. see link here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_HV_mRB7Xccontext=C37c2ddcADOEgsToPDskJsvrA5-7kjOKoHF8D5sQ7d Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com wrote: And lastly. First meteorite in Antarctica found by western sledge journey 1912 5th December The first meteorite to be found in Antarctica was discovered by the western sledge journey. It measured approximately 13 x 7.5 x 9 centimetres. It was named Adelie Land an L5 Chondrite Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com To: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant dmerc...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] First Meteorite Found in Antarctica? One more good link: http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/science/meteorites.shtml Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] First Meteorite Found in Antarctica? When was the first meteorite found in Antarctica and who found it? Ron __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Steves unproven tektite theory by Steve lol!
Daniel, Steve, All due respect to this theory. I'd like to hear more about this theory because he says; Theories about chemical etching and spalling as the major creators of surface sculpturing have been proven unlikely. He does not explain this statement. How has this been proven unlikely? If his theory is true. How do you explain all of the glass rocks found that have the same surface features as tektites but, have been ruled out as tektites based largely on the amount of H2O within them? Arizonaites( Saffordites) ?, Columbianites?, etc. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Daniel rainte...@aol.com wrote: Hi all, Take a look at this website. http://www.edamgaard.dk/Copy%20of%20VietnamTektites%20edj.htm Cheers, Daniel Sutherland Sent from my iPhone On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:19 PM, Dan Wray daniel_w...@comcast.net wrote: Steve, I am a tektite collector and I agree with you about the so called etching. If you look at broken fragments of hollow tektites the inside surface is smooth and the outside textured. You can also see this on stretched specimens, the stretched area is smooth. This so called etching is bogus. Dan Wray - Original Message - From: Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Steves unproven tektite theory by Steve lol! I believe the features on most tektites are produced during formation and not by etching. As the molten material reaches the upper atmosphere they reach a verry cold environment with low atmospheric pressure. The skin of the material is outgassing while being exposed to sub zero temps. this outgassing while freezing causes the skin to crystalize in strange shapes. then they are smoothed off during re entry which reaches speeds over the speed of sound. when wet limestone mud freezes in winter it causes similar crystal formations. when you mash them down they look like the surface of tektites. the molten material travels up to 4 or 5 miles in a molten state where it is quenched by sub zero tempratures causing crystalization. then re heated during its fall back to earth. the deep sharp grooves made during cooling are rounded off during re melting. I have a teardrop with smooth glassy surface on one end with no etching. if the etching was terestrial the whole tektite would be etched. Cheers Steve Dunklee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Please read this. Bryan Scarborough still at it!
MikeG, list, I have never done business with Scarborough nor have I ever met him. I only know of him through this list. I understand your confusion because I did have a bad experience with a Mifflin meteorite but, it has since been completely explained and anybody effected was quickly refunded their money. For the record; In a nut shell what happened is this; I purchased a find from Mifflin that later turned out to be a throw down (meteorite used to adjust either a metal detector or to give a visual comparison) left behind. I sent this pristine fully crusted find to be cut and sold by a well known dealer. I never saw the interior of this cut stone or I would have recognized it as odd and the NWA fall it turned out to be. It was re-sold and I was alerted to it's odd morphology by a buyer I had never met before. I called the dealer selling the material and he told me another well known dealer told him it was a likely second lithology of Mifflin. Had I not been told this the sales would have ended then. Long story short; the stone turned out to be a throw down from a different hunter. This story was believable because the stone was found the day after another stone had been found in the same area. This is where it gets interesting. The day the first stone was found and announced with much excitement , the land owner came outside and proclaimed it had been found on her land and she demanded it be handed over to her. The finder argued that it was found on the side of the road but, the lady insisted the road belonged to her as it was built on her land. When the finder refused to give up the meteorite she demanded everyone they had to leave or she would have the police remove them. This meant that everyone left in a hurry. Apparently leaving behind a throw down. This throw down was found by a different hunter the next day and subsequently sold to me. At the time I did not know where this stone was found. This info was reveled to me later but, he too says the lady could not prove the road belonged to her so he too kept it. Due to possible litigation against me because I cannot prove or dis-prove this story I chose to write this off as experience and we paid back all buyers of this stone but, to this day we have not had a single piece returned to us. I guess people chose to keep this material along with the full refunds we gave. I truly hope they flushed it all down the toilet as this has caused much grief and confusion. In any case I hope this clears things up. Carl Esparza Meteoritemax -- Cheers Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Brandon and List, Thanks so much for this warning and going public with it. You are doing a valuable service to the meteorite community as a whole. I have noticed a DISTURBING trend in the meteorite world lately, and that is secrecy involving members who have fallen from grace by offering bogus specimens. Without Jason Utas coming forward and going public, non-IMCA members would have never known that their collections were compromised by Scarborough-Esparza bogus Mifflin affair where NWA chondrites like Chergach/Bassi were being sold as Mifflin. To all of the watchdog groups out there who are supposedly safeguarding the integrity of the market - STOP BEING SECRETIVE about the wrongdoings of your members. By sweeping their misdeeds under the rug, you are doing to entire community a disservice and acting as accomplices in the destruction of the integrity of collections of non-members who are not privy to the internal business/wrongdoings of the group. The entire community, members or not, have a RIGHT to now if their collections are comprised by your members. Stop trying to salvage the damaged reputation of your group by hiding the crimes of disgraced members. This secrecy is backfiring because many of us are informed collectors who are not pushovers or fools - we know what is going on, despite the best attempts to cover it up. It's only making the group worse than it really is. The next time one of the members of these groups engages in criminal or unethical activity, do not limit the announcement to your own members - TELL THE PUBLIC. We have a right to know. If not, informed collectors are going to start taking their business elsewhere. Best regards, MikeG -- * Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone *** On 2/13/12, Brandon b1dunov...@aol.com wrote: List, I would like to give my opinion regarding Bryan Scarborough a.k.a, lonestar*meteorites. I try to give everyone the benifit of the doubt and after hearing the questions about John/Bryan's Tissint listing I had
Re: [meteorite-list] It's about time!
Hats off to Blain for all of his time and efforts because without his work this may not have happened. Carl meteoritemax. -- Cheers Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: I agree, Al... Time always exposes the bad seeds, no matter how many decades they have been floating around us... -Original Message- From: al mitt Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 2:48 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's about time! Greetings, I hope this is a wake up call for some of the other dishonest dealers who mis-represent meteorites or who are doing illegal acts. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: jimsk...@aol.com; jimsk...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's about time! Yes! This wingnut caused a lot of grief in the community. Hope whoever filed the criminal complaint also goes for a civil suit. Maybe that will finally get rid of him. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: jimsk...@aol.com Sent: Feb 12, 2012 7:36 AM To: jimsk...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's about time! Link correction: _http://www.kjct8.com/news/30437647/detail.html_ (http://www.kjct8.com/news/30437647/detail.html) In a message dated 2/12/2012 9:33:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, jimsk...@aol.com writes: They finally got Steve Curry. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the one and only
Doug, Actually, Poncho Villa was shot and killed in his car in the city of Parrel, Chih, Mexico. I have been to his museum there. At that time his car was still on display in situ where it crashed into the tree it hit upon his death. Same local as the museum. ET has some amazing specimens of Allende at the Tucson show if anyone needs any. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Dear List, Just to take a moment to appreciate the anniversary of incredible Allende event. Allende actually hammered Pancho Villa's old stronghold from where he lorded over all of Northern Mexico - a huge territory larger than most European countries what are the odds? Fun with numbers ... the heavy artillery CV3 happened 45 years after Villa died and Villa himself was assassinated at age of 45 (in Chihuahua City). Viva Allende ! etc., etc. Kindest wishes Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tata-Foumzgit-Tanzrou Martian Fall. (Why no lunar falls? and freshest lunar?)
Graham, I'm sure you saw this article about the Stone-6 experiments but, as a reminder. It does say that sedimentary rocks would survive and that sedimentary rocks developed a white or no crust at all. see link; http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Stone_6_Artificial_Meteorite_Shows_Martian_Impactors_Could_Carry_Traces_Of_Life_999.html Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers Graham Ensor graham.en...@gmail.com wrote: It still seems strange to me that we have not found any sedimentary meteorites from Mars.what are the main thoughts on why? There are many very fragile meteorites so I cannot imagine it is because they would not surviveor are we just not identifying them? Graham On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: ...except that it is unlikely that the primary target of a sample return mission to Mars would be basalt! That is not to say that this isn't an exciting event. But it does not accomplish what a sample return mission would, nor does it make such a mission less important. Jeff On 1/15/2012 2:43 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Shawn and List, It is true that science has access to dozens(!) of Martian meteorites, but all of them have been sitting on Earth for thousands of years and they have experienced alteration and oxidation during that long wait for discovery. This is the first Martian (or any planetary) that has a terrestrial age measured in months. That is exciting. It is so pristine and fresh, that scientists should be very keen to research it. Due to it's lack of oxidation and alteration, it is the next best thing to sample recovery mission. Imagine how much it would cost to bring back a sizeable sample from Mars. Mother Nature just saved science billions of dollars. :) Best regards, MikeG __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carancas lot Ad.
List, Please see my Ebay ad for a 5.24 gram Carancas Lot. With a buy it now option. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280804481353 Thanks, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury
Carl, You make a very convincing argument against your Norton County Aubrite being from Mercury. Especially when you do consider it's very low Iron content and it's white color. I have seen many Aubrites and I do not ever recall seeing one with zero observable iron. But, What do you think about Mayo Belwa being mis-classified? It not only looks way different than most of the other Aubrites in that it has a lot of darker colored material but, it also has no visible metal at all (at least from photos I have seen). Including red rust spots. It was also studied by non- American scientists that may or may not have tested it for it's true age? So, maybe it is young enough to be a Mercurian candidate? Or maybe it is old but, still from Mercury? Could it be mis-classified? I mean it happens. Look at ALH84001. As a trained architect; I see a relationship between Art and Science and on the art side ( visible) Mayo Belwa looks much different than the other 62 known Aubrites. And on the Science side; Lets just say that I'd like to see more science done by Americans. Surely it has a lower total iron content than even Norton County has and according to the Messenger, Mercury also has extremely low iron (maybe none). Maybe the detected iron is exclusively from meteorite hits? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Sterling makes some good points. The other thing besides trapped atmospheric gases that make the SNC's planetary is their relatively young igneous crystallization ages (except for ALH84001) -- indicating geologically long-lived volcanism on a large parent body. All angrites have ancient crystallization ages, in fact SAH99555 has perhaps the oldest crystallization age of any igneous rock in the known solar system. It is assumed that a body of Mercurian size would have at least a billion years of igneous activity and probably longer (like the Moon). If so it might take several 10's of millions of years to form a permanent crust from which to derive meteorites. Hence the zero age of angrites do not fit this picture well, more likely a smaller body, but not definitive. On the other hand, neither do the aubrites. As much as I would like our low-FeO 1-ton Norton County aubrite to be a Mercurian meteorite, this also seems unlikely because of it ancient age ~4.55 BY. The color argument is a tricky one because we have no idea what causes the Mercurian regolith to be darker than say an aubrite, and this is because of the intense stream of solar wind on rock surfaces which may have a huge on surface coloration. Another thing to remember is that none of the orbiters at Mars have ever spotted a terrain on the martian that is exactly the same as SNC meteorites, so based just on orbital data you would never know SNCs are from Mars -- dust coating is a big problem. There probably isn't as much dust on Mercury, but keep in mind that the interpretation of spectral data from orbit is as much art as it is science and ground-truth calibrations are hard to come by, so knowing the Sun's interaction with the Mercurian regolith maybe just as problematic. This is definitely a work in progress! Of course a NASA sample return mission would be my recommendation! I'm not picky, Mercury, Venus, Mars... Carl Agee --- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 15:44:26 -0600 From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com, Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov, meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 8C3C0F61ACE547BAA3F7E2510550BA80@ATARIENGINE2 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi, You may or may not remember that what made possible the positive identification of Martian meteorites AS Martian meteorites was that we had samples from the Martian surface. No, not rock samples, nor any returned samples, but the isotopic composition of rare gases in the Martian atmosphere, which made a distinctive and unusual signature (particularly for Argon). The SNC's shared this unique signature. It was like a fingerprint. And possible only because we had a lander on the surface.. Mercury has no atmosphere of any consequence and we have no lander there. It's always possible that our present sensing capacity will turn up something as definite, but I can't think of what it could be. Believe me, I've tried. Sterling K. Webb -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/
Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury
Sterling, list, I would never try to second guess you sterling but, it seems this topic has come up quite a bit and the big question always has to do with mineralogy. The truth is that Mercury's Oxygen isotopes may be the same as Earth as are many others within our same Zone such as Aubrites, our moon and few others. So, From what I read of this latest information a rock from Mercury might have the following specs: Magnesium rich- this describes Olivine and particularly Forsterite. Volitiles- Potassium-This describes feldspar. Darker colored than Aubrites- This means any color but white? Appear heavily shocked- Nothing more shocked than an IMB (impact melt breccia) High levels of Cosmic Ray exposure. Slightly magnetic (attracted to a magnet). This pretty much describes Cat MT. and I mentioned this in an earlier post on this same topic but, got no responses. I am curious to hear from you and others about this because Cat MT does have all of the above with the possible exception of the Cosmic ray exposure because I'm not sure that has ever been tested . Hopefully my lost in the UPS Cat MT. will some day be found and if returned I will happily supply plenty for this testing if need be. Carl meteoritemax Cheers Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Hi, You may or may not remember that what made possible the positive identification of Martian meteorites AS Martian meteorites was that we had samples from the Martian surface. No, not rock samples, nor any returned samples, but the isotopic composition of rare gases in the Martian atmosphere, which made a distinctive and unusual signature (particularly for Argon). The SNC's shared this unique signature. It was like a fingerprint. And possible only because we had a lander on the surface.. Mercury has no atmosphere of any consequence and we have no lander there. It's always possible that our present sensing capacity will turn up something as definite, but I can't think of what it could be. Believe me, I've tried. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com Cc: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury Hi Pete and List, There is really no evidence that supports the Mercury-angrite connection. However, if a meteorite from Mercury is ever confirmed, it is expected to be similar to angrites. Because angrites are so unusual (in comparison to other meteorites) and they possess properties that would be expected from a Mercury meteorite, they are the leading candidates. But as far as I know, nothing definitive has ever come to light that makes a solid connection between angrites and Mercury (or any other parent body). Best regards, MikeG -- * Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone *** On 1/8/12, Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com wrote: That is what was mentioned in the article. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 http://spacerocks.weebly.com -Original Message- From: Pete Pete Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 3:12 PM To: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov ; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury Hi, All, I know there's been only scattered remarks about the Messenger mission, but is the current consensus that angrites do not originate from Mercury? Best, Pete From: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 10:20:11 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/Wanted-Meteorites-from-Mercury-136803313.html Wanted: Meteorites from Mercury By Kelly Beatty Sky Telescope January 6, 2012 During a recent science conference discussing Messenger's results from Mercury, investigator Shoshana Weider (Carnegie Institution of Washington) commented, Short of landing on the surface, picking up a rock, and bringing it home, the instruments on Messenger that characterize chemistry are the best we're going to get. Well, Shoshana, you might still get to hold such a rock someday. According to a 2008 analysis http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0801/0801.4038.pdf by Brett Gladman and Jaime Coffey (University of British
Re: [meteorite-list] Breja Stone, chondrite
Michael, List, Fabulous photo. Any explanation as to why the fusion crust is soo brown on a fresh fall? Anyone! Thanks, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers ROCKS FROM SPACE rockma...@yahoo.com wrote: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/taousz.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nobel Prizewinning Quasicrystal Fell From Space
List, Hats off to them for this fabulous discovery . Also, It does not appear to have a fusion crust? No scale cube either in picture. Does anybody know the weight? Thanks Carl meteoritemax Cheers Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Jeff replied: No. Quick and to the point, I like that! :) Is a name and/or number in the works? Thank you, Greg -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:40 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nobel Prizewinning Quasicrystal Fell From Space No. On 1/3/2012 2:41 PM, Greg Hupé wrote: Very interesting! Does this meteorite have a name or number yet? Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com NaturesVault (eBay) IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Ron Baalke Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 1:56 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] Nobel Prizewinning Quasicrystal Fell From Space http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21325-nobel-prizewinning-quasicrystal-fell-from-space.html Nobel prizewinning quasicrystal fell from space by David Shiga New Scientist January 3, 2012 A Nobel prizewinning crystal has just got alien status. It now seems that the only known sample of a naturally occurring quasicrystal fell from space, changing our understanding of the conditions needed for these curious structures to form. Quasicrystals are orderly, like conventional crystals, but have a more complex form of symmetry. Patterns echoing this symmetry have been used in art for centuries, but materials with this kind of order on the atomic scale were not discovered until the 1980s. Their discovery, in a lab-made material composed of metallic elements including aluminium and manganese, garnered Daniel Shechtman of the Technion Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa last year's Nobel prize in chemistry. Now Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University and colleagues have evidence that the only known naturally occurring quasicrystal sample, found in a rock from the Koryak mountains in eastern Russia, is part of a meteorite. Nutty conditions Steinhardt suspected the rock might be a meteorite when a team that he led discovered the natural quasicrystal sample http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1170827 in 2009. But other researchers, including meteorite expert Glenn MacPherson of the Smithsonian Institution of Washington DC, were sceptical. Now Steinhardt and members of the 2009 team have joined forces with MacPherson to perform a new analysis of the rock, uncovering evidence that has finally convinced MacPherson. In a paper that the pair and their teams wrote together, the researchers say the rock has experienced the extreme pressures and temperatures typical of the high-speed collisions that produce meteoroids in the asteroid belt. In addition, the relative abundances of different oxygen isotopes in the rock matched those of other meteorites rather than the isotope levels of rocks from Earth. It is still not clear exactly how quasicrystals form in nature. Laboratory specimens are made by depositing metallic vapour of a carefully controlled composition in a vacuum chamber. The new discovery that that they can form in space too, where the environment is more variable, suggests the crystals can be produced in a wider variety of conditions. Nature managed to do it under conditions we would have thought completely nuts, says Steinhardt. Journal reference: /Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences/, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.115109 http://www.pnas.org/ __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ADVERT - NEW WITNESSED SHERGOTTITE FALL
How does Hakuna Ma-Tata sound then? Carl -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Falls (if this is one) do not get dense collection area numbers. NomCom guideline 3.3a says, In the event that a meteorite falls near the same locality as an existing named meteorite, the new fall should not be assigned... a numeric designation... It gets a unique name. Jeff On 12/28/2011 9:07 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi Jeff and List, Whatever the official name is, I hope it's an actual place name and not another NWA number. A fall of this magnitude deserves a name. :) Best regards, MikeG __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Carancas
List, Please see my Carancas listing ending soon. Still at 99 cents. http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25_trksid=p3984 Meteoritemax -- Cheers, Carl __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Primitive Achondrite Question
Ted, Jeff, Doug, list, Given what we now know about Almahatta Sita and how the classification type depends largely on what sample piece is being tested at the time. Couldn't this help explain why your (Ted's) Butt has been getting the workout as of late? Maybe you were right all along and perhaps their are more mixed batches of soup yet to be acknowledged than we once realized? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Ted Bunch tbe...@cableone.net wrote: Well stated Jeff and I agree! Thank you. There is the thing about metachondrite terminology, but we shall leave this dead horse alone for the time being. Two of these unremitting classification issues in 3 days is much too much for me in one week, especially when my butt is tied to both of them. Ted On 12/5/11 7:02 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: Type 7 is considered by most of those who use it to represent the highest degree of thermal metamorphism that a chondrite can experience without melting. As implied in that first sentence, some petrologists don't distinguish these from type 6. The term primitive achondrite is widely taken to be the next stage: you make them when a chondrite partially melts, and the process of crystal-melt separation begins. The primitive part says that the bulk composition is still fairly close to chondritic. But these definitions are not used by everybody, and you will get arguments about them. Clearly, the LL part of an LL7 classification for NWA 3100 is unlikely. O isotopes are below the terrestrial fractionation line, which basically rules it out. So it is not an LL7. Bunch has shown that the O isotopes are closer to CR chondrites. The hard part is the type 7 vs. primitive achondrite distinction. Bunch et al.'s 2005 and 2008 LPSC abstracts do not report anything in NWA 3100 that I take as evidence of melting or differentiation. So I don't see any reason to call these primitive achondrites, at least not based on these findings. I think the Bunch et al.'s conclusion that NWA 3100 is a CR6 is the best we have right now, but I think you still have to think of this as preliminary. Ted can correct me, but I think it was actually the nomcom that pushed for calling this a PAC, amid controversy on the committee. Jeff On 12/5/2011 8:23 PM, Ruben Garcia wrote: Hi all, I just bought a smallish collection and several of the slices that came with are NWA 3100. Mike Farmer's card was included and lists NWA 3100 as an LL7. The Met-Bul calls NWA 3100 a Primitive achondrite - not an LL7. My question is this, Does LL7 denote a particular Primitive achondrite? If so which one? If not then what type is this? BTW - I think Ted Bunch did the classification __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Primitive Achondrite Question
Alan, I agree with Darryl. Very fascinating conversation. Speaking of tidy categories. How do you feel about the following suggested case for replacing the current obsolete metallurgy system for classifying Iron meteorites? see link; http://meteormetals.com/Case_for_New_Meteorite_Metallurgy.pdf Cheers, Carl meteoritemax Alan Rubin aeru...@ucla.edu wrote: Classifications are just a way of making sense of the world by putting diverse objects into tidy categories. Even though real-world objects don't always fit (is light a wave or a particle?), good classifications last longer than interpretations. For example, the Linnaeus classification system was developed from a creationist perspective but is used today by every evolutionary biologist. So, to answer your question, classification is an end in itself -- it certainly helps in understanding relationships among diverse objects. But classification is not the only end -- understanding the origins of objects is also rather important, but because we have incomplete knowledge of objects, our interpretations are always tentative, subject to revision when new data are acquired. Classifications should be longer-lasting. As an aside, if you are interested in bad classification systems for meteorites, look at George Merrill's The Story of Meteorites from 1929: There are andrites, eukrites, shergottites, howardites, bustites, chassignites, chladnites, amphoterites, howarditic chondrites, white chondrites, intermediate chondrites, gray chondrites, black chondrites, spherulitic chondrites, crystalline chondrites, carbonaceous chondrites, orvinites, tadjerites, ureilites, lodranies, grahamite mesosiderites, siderophyrs, and more. Some of the groups are still recogniable, others less so. The problem was that the knowledge base at the time was insufficient to distinguish essential from secondary properties. Similar problems arose among classification schemes of living creatures and especially fossils. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Primitive Achondrite Question Adam wrote: NWA 3133 is a CV Primitive Achondrite Hi Adam, thanks ... The asteroid belt ought to be called the asteroid zoo! The question I have on this one, if CV is for certain, would be whether it is the result of a collision with a typical CV type, or is it certain that it is a fully baked CV (what happened to the possible CAI's - are there any, or is the CV possibly just impact regolith?), or, whether some innocent CV got hot all by itself. Kinest wishes Doug (Why does my wallet retract down my pocket every time ths stuff comes up!) -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2011 11:47 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Primitive Achondrite Question Doug wrote: I can't wait until someone turns up a CV6+. Theoretically, there is no reason to bar the possibility,, or is there... NWA 3133 is a CV Primitive Achondrite All of these oxygen isotope compositions plot on the CV3 mixing line, suggesting that this achondritic meteorite has affinities with CV chondrites (Irving et al., 2004). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Real UFO?
Thanks guys, I see it now. It looks like the camera man's own remote lights reflecting in his own lens. Carl -- Cheers Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com wrote: I agree with Greg as I have seen this effect thousands of times. If you look closely it even follows the curve of the lens surface. It is simply a reflection from a bright object. add a few frames and you make it look like it goes behind the building. They use lens flash as a special effect in lot of movies. cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Mon, 11/28/11, Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Greg Stanley stanleygr...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real UFO? To: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, November 28, 2011, 9:30 PM A reflection in the camera lens. There are many different colored bright lights there. Greg S Sent from my iPhone On Nov 25, 2011, at 3:57 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: List, What is this? Could somebody please explain this? see link; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/ufo-nfl-game_n_1033966.html Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another Sticks Like an Iron
CBb? Carl -- Cheers MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Jim Really suggestive of an octahedral structure. But I'm going to go with some railroad slag of some sort. Too hard to see in the picture whether there are any bubbles, but still the smoothed side is highly suspicious for a piece of slag that was crushed, maybe with other crap added to it. Is that anything close? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell nf11...@npgcable.com To: Meteorite-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, Nov 27, 2011 12:24 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Sticks Like an Iron Here is another recent find. Sticks like an iron to a magnet, has a density of about 4.6g/cc and has a lot of metal in the matrix. What is it???...just for fun. https://k7wfr.us/cold/DSCN0529.JPG Jim Jim Wooddell https://k7wfr.us __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Real UFO?
List, What is this? Could somebody please explain this? see link; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/ufo-nfl-game_n_1033966.html Carl Meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Latest from Gerta Keller - Chixilub didn't really do it...
The truth is but a resting place until the next revelation; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxZgn-wtc0 Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi David and List, Interesting theory. I am a little confused at what this new research is trying to say. Are they claiming that the volcanism from the Deccan Traps is largely responsible for the mass extinctions and that the coincidental meteorite impact aggravated the problem? Or, are they claiming that a meteorite impact near the area of the Deccan Traps triggered the resulting volcanism? It is not inconceivable to think that the latent potential of the Deccan Traps was unleashed by a catastrophic meteorite impact that punctured the crust and released the volcanism that caused the extinctions? In effect, this would mean that the Deccan Traps would not have caused the extinctions on their own, because the volcanism would not have been triggered if the meteorite impact had not happened. Considering the massive size and global cataclysmic effects caused by the Chicxulub event, it is hard to imagine that such an impact could not have caused the extinctions on it's own without any help from unrelated volcanism. However, if the Deccan Traps were already pummeling life on Earth with it's toxic effects, then the subsequent Chicxulub event may have been the knock out punch that finished off the species that were already on the ropes from the Deccan volcanism. Either way, the new research still admits that a meteorite impact played a role - even if it was secondary. Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone - On 11/18/11, David R. Vann drv...@sas.upenn.edu wrote: Not sure how much I agree with all this, but it sures seems the end Cretaceous would have been a bad time to be on planet Earth. One-Two Punch Caused Mass Extinction November 18, 2011 Princeton Univ. researchers found that massive, prolonged eruptions of the Deccan Traps in India gradually eliminated species and resulted in the Cretaceous-Tertiary mass extinction that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Marine sediment trapped between Deccan lava flows revealed that a species known as planktonic foraminifera-widely used to gauge the severity of prehistoric disasters-succumbed to lava mega-flows and volcano-induced environmental stress such as acid rain and drastic climate changes. As conditions on Earth worsened, large, variedspecies (left) were eliminated. The no more than seven or eight smaller species (right) that remained dwarfed further. Image: Gerta Keller A cosmic one-two punch of colossal volcanic eruptions and meteorite strikes likely caused the mass-extinction event at the end of the Cretaceous period that is famous for killing the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, according to two Princeton Univ. reports that reject the prevailing theory that the extinction was caused by a single large meteorite. Princeton-led researchers found that a trail of dead plankton spanning half a million years provides a timeline that links the mass extinction to large-scale eruptions of the Deccan Traps, a primeval volcanic range in western India that was once three-times larger than France. A second Princeton-based group uncovered traces of a meteorite close to the Deccan Traps that may have been one of a series to strike the Earth around the time of the mass extinction, possibly wiping out the few species that remained after thousands of years of volcanic activity. Researchers led by Princeton professor of Geosciences Gerta Keller report this month in the Journal of the Geological Society of India that marine sediments from Deccan lava flows show that the population of a plankton species widely used to gauge the fallout of prehistoric catastrophes plummeted nearly 100 percent in the thousands of years leading up to the mass extinction. This eradication occurred in sync with the largest eruption phase of the Deccan Traps-the second of three-when the volcanoes pumped the atmosphere full of climate-altering carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide, the researchers report. The less severe third phase of Deccan activity kept the Earth nearly uninhabitable for the next 500,000 years, the researchers report. A substantially weaker first phase occurred roughly 2.5 million years before the second-phase eruptions. Another group based in Keller's lab found evidence in Indian sediment of a meteorite strike from the time of
[meteorite-list] What is Provenance?
List, Our hobby of collecting meteorites is strongly dictated by provenance so I ask ; which of the two primary definitions below most apply's to the collection of meteorites and why? Merriam-Webster Online dictionary defines provenance as (1) the origin, source. (2) the history of ownership of a valued object or work of art or literature. Origin; Ancestry, Parentage. Source; Point of origin or beginning. It seems to me that without having a bullet proof origin the history of ownership wouldn't mean much. And knowing where a meteorite comes from does indeed add to it's value. Once origin is scientifically proven then and only then does history of ownership play a role. It then actually plays a huge role. Back in 1991 I was asked to sell Gina Haag's collection of meteorites in my upscale Art Gallery. Gina Haag for those who are new to this hobby was Bob Haag's first wife. After their divorce Gina asked me to help her sell her material. With Bob's name associated with the collection it was very easy to sell the entire collection for her rather quickly. Back then there was no Internet and even Bob would sell material by Xerox copy's sent through the mail. He would trace the actual slice of the meteorite and add a brief description and mail it off to his list of collectors. I still have such lists as I used them as a price guideline for Gina's meteorites. They flew out of the gallery for two main reasons. The first was origin. People could not believe they could actually own a real piece of a falling star. And second was the fact that many people had seen Bob on TV pitching these rocks from space. Origin has two meanings in our collecting world. One is the origin in the universe and the next is the origin of where it was found on Earth. Both being of significant importance. This also helps us categorize the rocks. Unlike coins and most other collectibles condition plays a small role in the evaluation of meteorites. We tend to treat our rocks more like works of art and a rusty or ugly work of art is worth less than pristine beautiful samples but, origin still rules. I can only guess why American meteorites are worth so much more than ones found elsewhere. As with Art it might be because Americans have the most money to invest? This seems to be true of other art forms as well. I mean people pay more for work by Jackson Pollock (140 mil.) versus Picasso (100 mil) I think just because one is an American and the other is not. Similarly in our world people pay more when certain names are associated with the rocks. Nininger, Haag, Chadni, The Meteorite Men, TCU, ASU. etc. ... Falls vs. finds are another unique aspect of our hobby. This I understand as the falls add a great story to the collection. What I don't get is why people are willing to pay a premium price for an initial offering when they know from past experience that the price will likely fall once the initial excitement fades. Also people will pay more if it hit or killed something. Even the carcase's and otherwise damaged man made things are worth money and they are not even meteorites. Of course it goes back to origin. If it hit something it must be from space. No boubt a doubt it. And if the other origin is the moon the sky would be the limit to the value whereas a common type can be very affordable. So, it seems to me our best collections should be filled with not only scientificly verified material but also with labels from great sources. We have a very unique addiction here. Please share your thoughts. Thanks Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo autographs Carancas AD.
List, Please check out my Ebay auctions ending today. Moon Walkers autographs and Carancas Hammer. http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25_trksid=p3984 Thanks, Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lutetia
Benjamin, The regolith (dust) on the moon is pretty think as evidenced by the depth of the moon walkers foot prints as seen in photos. So, Tell me. Does that dust composition match the rocks on the Moon or not? Or is it a mixture of impactors and native rocks? That answer should hint at the truth about spectroscopy shouldn't it? Carl meteoritemax Benjamin P. Sun bpsun2...@gmail.com wrote: Regolith is mostly powdered rock and pebbles from the parent body that may or may not be compacted at the surface. So why should the reflectance spectra from Lutetia's regolith be totally dismissed? Are you dismissing Spectroscopy of asteroids altogether? If the paint derived from the parent body, then analysis of the paint could possibly tell us something about the parent body itself. Yes? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] White House: No Evidence That ETs Have Reached Out To Touch Us -- Or Even Exist
Phil, Good one. It is sometimes difficult to prove some things exist. Even if they do. The way they can doctor pictures and video these days I imagine the proof bar is pretty high these days in the ET debate. Looks like we're going to need an actual body at this point. And take God for example. Believers think the world is all the proof you need whereas disbelievers cannot prove he doesn't exist. If there is life elsewhere one might expect it to be on the moon. I mean they say the moon was once part of Earth. If that is so then why is there no life there? Earth has life almost everywhere and yet the moon has none anywhere. This not only adds to the other discredits of the origin of the moon theory but, it does equally the life elsewhere theory. The moon even has the same oxygen and it is also not flat. Yes, we can prove the Earth is not flat. Although each theory has it's own circular argument. Neither one will ever prove or disprove the other. Because we were not there when the moon formed and we have yet to find a shred of life elsewhere. Not even a peep (SETI) . And to say there must be life out there is the same argument stated about God. There must be a God. In any event I think Earth is great. God or chance did something right. 2 more cents, Carl meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. dorifry dori...@embarqmail.com wrote: http://www.aol.com/2011/11/08/white-house-says-no-et-evidence_n_1081731.html#s307060title=Lanterns White House: No Evidence That ETs Have Reached Out To Touch Us -- Or Even Exist Posted: 11/8/11 10:09 AM ET share this story 7 0 0 There's no evidence of any extraterrestrial life and no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public's eye. And there you have it, straight from the White House's mouth, so to speak. UFO aficionados, skeptics and believers alike have waited patiently since September to see how the Obama administration would respond to two petitions under the new We the People program. According to the official response written and released Friday evening by Phil Larson at the White House Office of Science Technology Policy, while the government is saying it has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race, the door is still open to the possibility and search efforts of life outside our planet. And those efforts include the ongoing Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence -- or SETI -- which uses ground-based telescopes to try and tune in to signals from another world. Larson's response also mentions the Kepler spacecraft in Earth's orbit, searching for Earth-like planets, and the upcoming Mars Science Laboratory, a car-size vehicle that will explore the geology of the red planet to look for any of the building blocks of life. Undoubtedly, the minions who believe that Earth has already been visited by at least one race of extraterrestrials -- citing photographic, film, video tape, radar returns and landing traces as evidence -- will surely be disappointed with the White House's no evidence stance. Steven Bassett, who penned the first alien disclosure petition in September, isn't satisfied with the White House response and has announced on his Paradigm Research Group site his intention of filing another petition. The [White House] response was unacceptable. Much feedback is likely. PRG will begin to pre-promote a new petition relevant to the Disclosure process ... and will continue to keep the Disclosure issue front and center within this attempt at participatory democracy by the Obama administration, Bassett wrote. If someone, like Bassett, isn't happy with the response given by the Obama administration, he or she can turn right around and file a new petition with no restrictions. There's no reason someone couldn't submit a second petition, White House spokesman Matt Lehrich told The Huffington Post in an e-mail Monday. If it crosses the threshold [of 25,000 signatures], it will get a response. Obviously, if the petition is very similar, it may garner a similar response. Any backlash to the White House ET response will most likely come from people and organizations who will point to the thousands of pages of previously classified government documents about UFOs -- many of which clearly indicate that some UFO encounters with military forces and airline pilots in the past were considered so important that they weren't disclosed to the public. Of course, anything in the sky that can't be identified is a UFO. Experts, government officials and military personnel have often been unable to explain away sightings. That
[meteorite-list] First men on Moon, Carancas AD.
List, Please check out my ebay listings for an original autographed photo of the first moon walkers. Armstrong, Aldrin and collins at the lowest price ever . Also a nice Carancas fragment. http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25_trksid=p3984 Thanks. Carl Meteoritemax Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - CambridgeEncyclopedia More - AD
Mark, Doug, All. This chicken or egg question does have an obvious answer because it sounds rather logical whether you are a believer in evolution or not. In fact this same obvious answer could be used to explain away a few million similar questions ( other odd things) if you think about it. It is a particularly good answer if you are involved in the very circular argument as evolution. Because it reinforces the argument itself but , in order to be fact in science proof is required. Otherwise it is but a great theory. I am not arguing against evolution per se. Just saying that sometimes it takes more than a good explanation to make things so. As in all circular arguments there are too many possibly wrong assumptions made to begin with so, it is easy to believe the rest. A one degree navigation error at the beginning of a journey can lead to a huge mistake. If for example for whatever reason you believe that meteorites seeded the Earth with life you might lean towards the belief that all odd things came from different meteorites. Oh and there is the god theory as well. Yet another species of a very different circular argument? Why must all scientific theories agree with previous theories? None of us was around back then so it's not like anyone can prove us wrong! Sir Ernest Rutherford said; All science is either physics or stamp collecting This chicken or egg discussion is clearly stamp collecting. Carl Meteoritemax Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Mark's Meteorites m...@meteorites.cc wrote: I'll ignore the debat about the origins of man, but this one: What came first. The chicken or the egg? Has a very clear and obvious answer. The egg came first. It just wasn't a chicken's egg - dinosaurs and other egg-laying reptiles were around long before hens :) Mark Crawford On 27 Oct 2011, at 00:55, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Sterling, Okay. I have some real questions for you. What came first. The chicken or the egg? Seriously! Also, Even if your statements are true. Isn't there a missing link between not alive and alive? And couldn't man have arrived here as a man and not an ape? Why did it take man s long to develop if it derived from the soup already here? Thanks, Carl Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: One. There is NO missing link between Ape and Man since human ancestry is a brush or shrub, not a tree. Two: Lucy is either ONE of many links between Ape and Man or One Cousin to one link between Ape and Man, of which there are probably dozens of so-called species. If this is confusing, just tell me WHICH of your great- great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (numbering 1024) you are descended from? Or is it from ALL of them? For example, if you are a non-African, non-Asian H. sap, you have up to 4% Neanderthal DNA. Is H. sap. descended from H. neanderthalensis? Well, no. On the other hand... Well, yes. Human thinking about blood lines and ancestry is hopelessly corrupted by meaningless notions derived from antiquated tripe, of which the idea of the Missing Link is one. Three: There is no way (absent remarkable recovery of DNA beyond present technology) to prove any potential intermediary form actually IS intermediary except for good judgment. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Becky and Kirk ba...@chorus.net To: geohigg...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - CambridgeEncyclopedia More - AD I don't believe that Lucy has ever been proven to be the missing link. Science knows it will have to do better than that. Australopithecine has often been debated---but never proven as such beyond any doubt. Lucy and her kind still spent most of their time in trees as I recall. Kirk. - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: geohigg...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - Cambridge Encyclopedia More - AD On NWA 6077 / NWA 5400: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320779119158 It may be the only surviving ancestor of Earth itself. The last time such a important discovery was made is when anthropologist found Lucy the missing link between Ape and Man. Hey John, or maybe the much more petrologically important link between Lucé and L'Aigle ;-) ? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: John
[meteorite-list] First men on Moon, Carancas AD.
List, Please check out my ebay listings for an original autographed photo of the first moon walkers. Armstrong, Aldrin and collins at the lowest price ever . Also a nice Carancas fragment. http://www.ebay.com/sch/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25_trksid=p3984 Thanks. Carl Meteoritemax Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - CambridgeEncyclopedia More - AD
Sterling, Okay. I have some real questions for you. What came first. The chicken or the egg? Seriously! Also, Even if your statements are true. Isn't there a missing link between not alive and alive? And couldn't man have arrived here as a man and not an ape? Why did it take man s long to develop if it derived from the soup already here? Thanks, Carl Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: One. There is NO missing link between Ape and Man since human ancestry is a brush or shrub, not a tree. Two: Lucy is either ONE of many links between Ape and Man or One Cousin to one link between Ape and Man, of which there are probably dozens of so-called species. If this is confusing, just tell me WHICH of your great- great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (numbering 1024) you are descended from? Or is it from ALL of them? For example, if you are a non-African, non-Asian H. sap, you have up to 4% Neanderthal DNA. Is H. sap. descended from H. neanderthalensis? Well, no. On the other hand... Well, yes. Human thinking about blood lines and ancestry is hopelessly corrupted by meaningless notions derived from antiquated tripe, of which the idea of the Missing Link is one. Three: There is no way (absent remarkable recovery of DNA beyond present technology) to prove any potential intermediary form actually IS intermediary except for good judgment. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Becky and Kirk ba...@chorus.net To: geohigg...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - CambridgeEncyclopedia More - AD I don't believe that Lucy has ever been proven to be the missing link. Science knows it will have to do better than that. Australopithecine has often been debated---but never proven as such beyond any doubt. Lucy and her kind still spent most of their time in trees as I recall. Kirk. - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: geohigg...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - Cambridge Encyclopedia More - AD On NWA 6077 / NWA 5400: http://www.ebay.com/itm/320779119158 It may be the only surviving ancestor of Earth itself. The last time such a important discovery was made is when anthropologist found Lucy the missing link between Ape and Man. Hey John, or maybe the much more petrologically important link between Lucé and L'Aigle ;-) ? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 2:14 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Sale - Rare Types - Cambridge Encyclopedia More - AD Dear Meteorite List members, All auctions started @ .99 cents. All winning bidders will receive the New Outer Space Rocks 2012 magnetic meteorite calendar. One per person. All non-auction meteorites 10% OFF FREE SHIPPING. Please visit my eBay http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks www.OUTERSPACEROCKS.com HIGHLIGHTS of auctions include many new and exciting rare meteorite types professionally presented with provenance: NWA 6868 (5.3g Part Slice) Introducing a gorgeous Provisionally classified LL6 Breccia meteorite. Recrystallized, mostly poikiloblastic clasts containing rare relict chondrule fragments in a matrix of related debris. The presence of some recognizable RP chondrule fragments in NWA 6868 makes it a Type 6 - otherwise it would be an LL metachondrite. The necessary precautions were taken while cutting to ensure you have a nice stable specimen, this slice is polished on one side with no unsightly saw marks.( http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6868-LL6-Chondrite-Breccia-Meteorite-5-3g-PS-/380378898246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item5890595f46 ) NWA 6284 (8.9g Part Slice) Introducing a new Officially classified L5 meteorite with some distinct chondrules. Olivine (Fa24.7-25.1), orthopyroxene (Fs20.4-21.2Wo4.2-1.9). clinopyroxene (Fs7.5-7.8Wo46.6-43.8), sodic plagioclase, chromite, altered kamacite and troilite.This is a beautiful specimen from a very fresh meteorite with a weathering level of only 1/2 and a very modest Total known weight of only 1021g This is a gorgeous part slice with wide surface area polished on both sides with some fusion crust along one of the edges. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWA-6284-L5-Chondrite-Meteorite-8-9g-Part-Slice- /380378899755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item589059652b ) NWA 6077 (1.32g Part Slice) Incredibly rare, Officially classified Ungrouped
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Auction Days Numbered?
Eric, EBay has been sued many times. Luckily they keep winning. Even so they have had to make numerous changes. Supposedly the USA sales account for about 46 percent (4 billion dollars) of their total sales so, by limiting some of the off-shore visibility they may be cutting their own throat. On the other hand people who depend on off-shore sales could lose a possible 54 percent of their revenue. Ouch! According to the link below they are actively trying to stop the fraud but, it takes people like us to hit the report button in order to stop the auctions. They told me that three day auctions are very hard to catch in time though. Consequently some stuff does fall through the cracks. For these reasons I think eBay will continue to try and continue as many sales as possible without becoming too much the Man. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/07/ebay_claims_vic.html Carl eBay seller ; Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Eric Wichman e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: The writing has been on the wall for a while now. Hopefully I'm wrong... With all the fuss over the years with suspect and obvious fake meteorites on Ebay, misleading and incorrect information and identification of terrestrial stones claimed as meteorites by inexperienced folks trying to make a quick buck on that lava rock they found in their driveway that wasn't there yesterday. Problems of international shipping and the tightening of export laws in other countries which govern, or at least try to govern the exportation of meteorites. Ebay is starting to take measures to prohibit meteorite sales on their international sites, as per a recent post on the Met-List a little while ago. (I'm assuming some dealers used to list items internationally on multiple international Ebay sites like others have, but now Ebay is seemingly prohibiting this practice. Hopefully this is not a sign of things to come.) Recent posts about suspect Lunar meteorites, and the numerous other suspect and supposed meteorites that get listed on Ebay, the countless emails from meteorite dealers to Ebay about apparent and obviously fraudulent Ebay auctions featuring fake meteorites doesn't really help. This coupled with the ambiguous and non-standard international export and import laws in other countries regarding meteorites, I think selling meteorites on Ebay might become a thing of the past. There are too many other products with much less hassle and risk for Ebay to allow to be listed, without dealing with the liability of the possibility of suspect and or blatantly fraudulent meteorite auctions which might cause buyers undo loss, or inadvertent proliferation of non-meteoritic material throughout the meteorite community. This causes much confusion on what a meteorite really looks like, and identification of meteorites by psuedo-experts, and backyard meteorite hunters who quickly list their find on Ebay hurts the community, and ultimately the science. Not that Ebay cares about that, but if any of these things increase their risk, and meteorites become too much of a liability, or it costs them too much money to wade through the possible legal and/or business policy disputes that arise from meteorite listings, then they would have no reason to continue to allow meteorites to be listed. Meteorite auction days on Ebay might just be numbered. Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT Hero
List, This is off topic but, a must see. Click below; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZFkZiwMLZ4 Thank you FDNY. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] eBay restriction on international auctions of meteorites?
Gary, This has happened to me many times before. In most cases you can simply change the listing slightly and re list it. In some of the cases I was selling antique ivory or swords and there are countries that do forbid these objects. When I called eBay about the sword listing they told me in Portugal NO weapons are allowed to be purchased by it's citizens so, eBay will not allow international listings of weapons of any kind. But, again usually a call to eBay can straighten out these messes. dial 866-907-3229 and prompt to continue without a pin number and ask to speak with a rep. On another note eBay has been sued and lost cases many times. The most recent hit ebat took involved a seller selling fake Tiffany antiques. For this now most sellers some day soon may be required to have stuff authenticated by a licensed appraiser prior to listing the Name Brand stuff for sale. Yes, it is getting tougher out there. Cheers, Carl meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com wrote: Aloha, I was working on inputing my lineup of offerings on ebay's scheduler, when I received the following emails from ebay stating they are removing the international site visibility feature. Here's what the message says: You recently created or revised this eBay listing that included the International Site Visibility feature: 230676640288 NEW! NWA 6929 H4 (S2,W2) 2.77g Meteorite Full Slice, However, we had to remove International Site Visibility from your listing. Of course, we won't be charging you the fee for it. Because the laws and eBay policies vary by country, sometimes items that can be listed in your country can't be listed internationally. It's also possible that the listing itself violated an eBay policy in another country. In situations like this, we automatically remove the International Site Visibility feature from the listing. We're sorry for the inconvenience this causes. Anyone else experience this? I never have. Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites delivered Earth's gold
Paul, List, It seems to me that much of the Gold found on Earth is accompanied by Quartz. In fact most of the finest Non-nugget specimens are usually found in quartz. That said; If this gold came from space then where did the quartz come from and for that matter why is gold not found buried in chonditic rock instead of quartz. . Quartz does not seem to be terribly abundant in meteorites. Just curious why we don't find gold / quartz meteorites. What changed meteorites? Do we have any witnessed falls of Gold meteorites? Do these researchers consider the Quartz issue here? Thanks. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: Young Earth was sprinkled with precious metals physicsworld.com, Sept. 7, 2011 http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/47116 Where does all the gold come from? University of Bristol, Sept 7, 2011 http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2011/7885.html Meteorites delivered Earth's gold, by Leila Battison BBC News, Sept 8, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14827624 The paper is: Willbold, M., T. Elliott, and S. Moorbath, 2011, The tungsten isotopic composition of the Earth’s mantle before the terminal bombardment. Nature. vol. 477, no. 7363, pp. 195-198. DOI: 10.1038/nature10399 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v477/n7363/full/nature10399.html A related paper is: Marty, B., and A. Meibom, 2007, Noble gas signature of the Late Heavy Bombardment in the Earth’s atmosphere. eEarth. vol. 2, pp. 43–49. PDF file at: http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/33/07/83/PDF/ee-2-43-2007.pdf Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Conception Junction approved (question)
Laurence, Sorry if this is a stupid question but none of the other pallasites in the bulletin show their data this same way. looking at this data . What does it mean when it says; mg/g etc... Is this milligrams divided by grams? What would the percentage be put in a way that it can be compared with the way others are reported? Geochemistry: Compositional data: Co 6.0 mg/g; Ni 79 mg/g; Ga 24 μg/g; Ge ~80 μg/g; As 29 μg/g; Ir 0.50 μg/g; Au 2.39 μg/g. Data are the mean of duplicate determinations. The composition of the metal differs in detail from other pallasites. For example, the Ir concentration is 0.50 ug/g, with the nearest relative Seymchan at 0.67 μg/g and Barcis at 0.32 μg/g. Classification: On element-Au diagrams, Conception Junction plots distinctly lower than most PMG on Ni and Cu and above most PMG on Co, Ga, As, and Ir diagrams; it is therefore classified as PMG-anomalous (PMG-an). Its Ni and Cu contents are the lowest known for PMG. Its nearest PMG-an neighbor on most diagrams is Krasnojarsk. The low Ni and high Co could reflect unrepresentative sampling of kamacite and taenite but these are the means of two replicates. Thank you. Carl meteoritemax Laurence Garvie lgar...@cox.net wrote: For those that are interested, Conception Junction was approved today. see www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=53877 Laurence CMS ASU __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Conception Junction
Seems to me Intercourse Pennsylvania might be at least remotely related? Haha Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Bernd and List, I was thinking much the same thing, except for the statement by UCLA's Dr. John Wasson given in the write-up: …there is no main-group pallasite that is closely related to Conception Junction. Conception Junction is unique. Best, Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: MichaelG. wrote: In all seriousness, it is an attractive pallasite. At first glance, it has a passing resemblance to Brenham. In all seriousness: not only at first glance does it look like Brenham. It does look suspiciously like Brenham. Maybe it is a transported Brenham mass! Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy Cat Mountain story
List, All, I would like to explain the situation here as I see it. To me this whole story is amazing. Out of the blue Guido posts on the met-list that he is in possession of a very rare meteorite. After looking at the mere photos of it I responded that it looked like Cat MT in every way. Much to my surprise the next post from Guido announces that it is in fact a newly discovered Cat MT. meteorite. This I repeat was recognized by me from a mere photograph and I was correct. How good is that? How many other people made this recognition from the photo? None. As a matter of fact most people that initially saw the photo told him it was slag. In fact Greg H. cleverly named it Slagadocios. Well , Gary F. recommended that Guido should have it looked at by an expert. So, Guido sent it at his own expense to one of the most knowledgeable investigators of meteorites on the planet. He sent it to Dr. Ted Bunch. As everyone knows by now . It was confirmed to be a paired example of Cat MT. This discovery prompted me to go back out to Snyder Hill and search for more. I live 20 minutes away. As luck would have it. On Aug 2, 2011 I found another example of Cat MT. This was totally amazing because I had not only been there two dozen times before dating back to 1995 but , I had taken many people to the hunt zone to look and as mentioned before. I was with the group back in 1995 that found what turned out to be the Snyder Hill meteorite. The same group also found a pecan size Cat MT that I was not aware they had found until recently. So, to be clear. I recognized Guido's Cat MT. from a photo. This prompted me to go back out and look for more. I found and thoroughly documented this 170 gram find with many pictures and a GPS unit. This I agreed to allow Guido to get authenticated and to sell it for me because I was not looking for any publicity. You can rate the this story yourself but, to me this is a great story . Worthy of note in the meteorite community but, clearly should be an inspiration to all future wood- be hunters. The lesson is of course to go and look where meteorites have been found before (Bob Haag.) It's all good. Only a real scrooge could see it any other way. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cat Mountain on EBay
Regine, To be clear. I will answer your questions in ALL CAPS below after each question. Regine Petersen fips_br...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi Sonny and list, can someone clarify some things for me? I find it a bit confusing, so excuse me if I ask obvious questions. These are the facts as far as I have understood them: Apart from the first Cat Mountain find there was Snyder Hill, which was not part of the same fall and only found while looking for further Cat Mountain pieces. THIS IS CORRECT. IT HAS NOT BEEN LINKED TO CAT MT BUT, THEY ARE THE SAME CLASSIFICATION OF L5 WHICH IN AND OF ITSELF SEEMS A BIT COINCIDENTAL. ALTHOUGH THEY LOOK NOTHING ALIKE. There was another small Cat Mountain found by Robert Haag which didn't get classified. TECHNICALLY IT WAS A PECAN SIZED PIECE FOUND DURING THE SEARCH BACK IN 1995 AND ALSO FOUND BY THE SAME GROUP THAT FOUND SNYDER HILL BUT WAS IMMEDIATELY SOLD TO ROBERT HAAG. AND HE NEVER DID GET IT CLASSIFIED. Now hunters were searching the Snyder Hill site and found two more Cat Mountains which are now sold on eBay. NO. TWO MORE PIECES HAVE BEEN FOUND BUT ONLY PART OF ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN SOLD ON EBAY TO RUBEN. THE PIECE SOLD ON EBAY TO RUBEN WEIGHED 61 GRAMS AND WAS PART OF THE RECENT 107 GRAM FIND. THE OTHER 170 GRAM FIND REMAINS AVAILABLE FOR SALE BY COUNT DEIRO. Who found the rocks, Count Deiro or the hunters who have also found the Snyder Hill piece? THE COUNT IS NOT SAYING WHO FOUND THE SECOND ONE BUT THE FIRST WAS FOUND BY THE SAME FELLOW (DAVE JOHNSON) WHO FOUND THE SNYDER HILL AND THE ONE SOLD TO ROBERT HAAG.. Who is selling them? And why was the third rock which was found designated 001? THE SECOND ROCK WAS THE ONE DESIGNATED 001 AND THE THIRD ONE WHICH IS STILL BEING OFFERED BY THE COUNT IS 002. IT WEIGHS 164.5 GRAMS The second one hasn't been classified, but wouldn't the original find get the first number? NO. THE ORIGINAL FIND GETS THE NAME. TECHNICALLY THE FOLLOWING FINDS GET THE SAME NAME WITH SEQUENTIAL NUMBERS AFTER THE NAME BUT THIS IS THE CONFUSING PART. I THOUGHT THEY ONLY GOT DIFFERENT NUMBERS IF THEY WERE FOUND TO BE A DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATION. THE REASON I AM CONFUSED IS THAT SNYDER HILL SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED CAT MT. 001 AS IT WAS FOUND IN THE CAT MT STREWNFIELD BUT IT GOT A SEPARATE NAME. SO, MY QUESTION IS ; WHICH IS THE CORRECT WAY TO NAME THESE NOW FIVE METEORITES? THERE IS CAT MT THE ORIGINAL AND MAIN MASS. AND THREE OTHER RELATED ROCKS ONE PECAN SIZE ROCK SOLD TO HAAG. ONE 107 GRAM ROCK PART OF WHICH WAS SOLD TO RUBEN AND THE LAST ONE OF 170 GRAMS THE COUNT IS SELLING 164.5 GRAMS OF NOW. AND THERE IS SNYDER HILL.. IS THERE A TRUE OFFICIAL WAY TO DO THIS? CARL Pretty amazing finds :-) Regine --- wahlpe...@aol.com wahlpe...@aol.com schrieb am Fr, 19.8.2011: Von: wahlpe...@aol.com wahlpe...@aol.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Cat Mountain on Ebay An: cdtuc...@cox.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Datum: Freitag, 19. August, 2011 16:29 Uhr Hi Carl, These are truly amazing finds. This is a great example to everyone that if one meteorite is found return and check for more pieces. Who knows, you may find something from a different fall. The number one key is to spend time in the field and to have fun! Sonny -Original Message- From: cdtucson cdtuc...@cox.net To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; wahlperry wahlpe...@aol.com Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 3:00 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cat Mountain on Ebay Sonny,This is interesting because the seller and finder are also the original finders of Snyder Hill back in 1995. They also found a pecan sized cat MT I was never aware of that Bob Haag never got added to the official record.I also had no idea they were the finders of this new Cat MT find until now but, I actually took them to the Cat MT strewnfield back in 1995 and I was with them when they originally found Snyder Hill.It was interesting because Mike Holden and Jerome Johnson found the first half of Snyder Hill and the very next day Dave found the other half on the opposite side of the hill. It seems it had struck the hill and each half went it's own direction. They were later reunited and they fit perfectly back together.Bob Haag has said it a million times. Go back and search where meteorites have been found before. It worked again. I talked to Dave tonight for the first time since 1995 and he told me he had not ever been back since his first find until this past March when he found this latest Cat MT. 001. This story has another interesting twist to it. Back then everyone was worried about ownership. For this reason everyone was afraid to mention find locations. There was no Met-list to ask questions. Only rumors. Long story short the true find location of Snyder Hill was eventually correctly documented and named appropriately. Tonight Dave said he went back to the hill
Re: [meteorite-list] Cat Mountain on Ebay
Sonny, This is interesting because the seller and finder are also the original finders of Snyder Hill back in 1995. They also found a pecan sized cat MT I was never aware of that Bob Haag never got added to the official record. I also had no idea they were the finders of this new Cat MT find until now but, I actually took them to the Cat MT strewnfield back in 1995 and I was with them when they originally found Snyder Hill. It was interesting because Mike Holden and Jerome Johnson found the first half of Snyder Hill and the very next day Dave found the other half on the opposite side of the hill. It seems it had struck the hill and each half went it's own direction. They were later reunited and they fit perfectly back together. Bob Haag has said it a million times. Go back and search where meteorites have been found before. It worked again. I talked to Dave tonight for the first time since 1995 and he told me he had not ever been back since his first find until this past March when he found this latest Cat MT. 001. This story has another interesting twist to it. Back then everyone was worried about ownership. For this reason everyone was afraid to mention find locations. There was no Met-list to ask questions. Only rumors. Long story short the true find location of Snyder Hill was eventually correctly documented and named appropriately. Tonight Dave said he went back to the hill because that is the only place he had ever found a meteorite and low and behold he found another of the holy grail of all impact melt breccias. A new Cat MT itself. He says he sold it to Ruben for a pile of money and some nice meteorites were thrown in on the deal. So, looks like Dave finds meteorites every time he hunts. Even if they were 16 years apart. Great job Dave. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi List, Cat Mountain for sale on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Cat-Mountian-meteorite-001-/330599015532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4cf93ca46c __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lyon Turnbull meteorite auction results!!!
Shawn, This is great but, here in America things are still a bit rough. The recession has hit everybody really hard.. My neighbor got a pre-declined credit card in the mail. Wives are having sex with their husbands because they can't afford batteries. CEO's are now playing miniature golf. Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen. A Private Entertainer was killed when her audience showered her with rolls of pennies while she danced. I saw a Mormon with only one wife. If the bank returns your check marked Insufficient Funds, you call them and ask if they meant you or them. McDonald's is selling the 1/4 ouncer. Angelina Jolie adopted a child from America. Parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children's names. My cousin had an exorcism but couldn't afford to pay for it, and they re-possessed her! A truckload of Americans was caught sneaking into Mexico . A picture is now only worth 200 words. When Bill and Hillary travel together, they now have to share a room. The Treasure Island casino in Las Vegas is now managed by Somali pirates. Congress says they are looking into this Bernard Madoff scandal. Oh Great! The guy who made $50 Billion disappear is being investigated by the people who made $14.1 Trillion disappear! And, finally... I was so depressed last night thinking about the economy, wars, jobs, my savings, Social Security, retirement funds, etc., I called the Suicide Hotline. I got forwarded to the outsourced call center in Pakistan, and when I told them I was suicidal, they got all excited, and asked if I could drive a truck. author unknown. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, Hope everyone is doing well. I was able to watch the The Robert Elliott Meteorite Collection: Part II auction I have to say sales were high with some items. I guess in the UK market people can spend some coins. The Michael Jackson interest NWA xxx 559g meteorite sold for £1,100 with the expected value at about Estimate £250-350. Can we say we have some Michael Jackson fans in the house. I was thinking that might be a high of the auction ans so it seems it was. Now I wonder is the Jackson estate has the other half still and what that might be worth on the meteorite market. Now me move onto Nakhla. I think this was also a house favorite with the closing cost at £1,100 for a .228g fragment. After conversion and sellers fee, the expected winner will be paying about 2200 in American dollars. The price you pay for history and aura. Now there were some flops.. Can anyone say cheese.. Well that is what I was told the Moon was made out of when I was a little kid, bit soon after, I was told that astronauts made the moon from rocks. The stories that kids are told, I hope kids these days are smarter and when the parents aren't looking google it. If I had google when I was 4 years old, I would have been smart little kid on my speak n spell. Now back to the flops. Those were Dar al Gani 400. The suggested price for a Moon rock 0.184g was at Estimate: £1600 - 2200. Am I missing something or is that old prices when this stuff was selling like hot cakes? Now we move to closer of the auction. Calcalong Creek. This meteorite can command a pretty penny and was said to sell for around $40,000 a gram. Last time I say some of this sell I think it was a 2mg piece for around $700. As for the Lyon and Turnbull's Calcalong Creek fragment this could be a winner for the winning bidder at a mystery weight. The only thing one could go by was the size, 3mm. The weight could be 3mg to 10mg or more. But I have to say for £300, at the end of the day, a deal was made considering the province and hand written letter and not to mention the fragment could be 10mg or more, and if that's the case, the winner got a steal. All and all, the sales were average to above average and for the market being in a rut, the auction went off with some great buys. Now I just want to know when is the next one is cause this one was nice to watch and see alot of great meteorites slip by. For the results of all 101 LOTS click on the link down below http://www.lyonandturnbull.com/asp/searchresults.asp?pg=1st=D Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury Meteorites - the short list
Michael. You and the report mention Sulfides. Are you suggesting that a meteorite might be made up primarily of sulfides? Because there have been many nearly pure sulfide meteor-wrongs found and looked at and rejected. These have been called such things as manganese nodules , Tombstone Manganese silver ore and many other similar stuff found like nearly pure Molybdenum and bornite wrongs as well as the famous or rather infamous NJ fall wrong and many similar objects that flood eBay today. Perhaps the big secret NASA is keeping is that one or more of these previous wrongs may be right after all? Maybe not all metal type meteorites are Fe/Ni after all. Maybe some are made of other metals and or sulfides? Those sneaky little NASA devils may be at it again. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Michael Murray mikebevmur...@gmail.com wrote: Carl, List, I make no guarantees that this information is correct but, as I understand it, the public might have to wait until sometime around the middle of September of 2012 for the data they are collecting now from orbit. And, I understand only a few of the pictures taken will be released between now and then. Wonder why? I'm starting to get a mushroom complex. Kept in the dark and all that. I ask you, can mushrooms survive on sulfides? Mike in CO On Aug 6, 2011, at 10:32 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Bernd, The very latest info on Mercuries composition does not even mention Fe or FeO. It seems to me if it was there NASA would have already mentioned it. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/media/NewsConference20110616.html Ut says; Mercury's Surface Composition The X-ray Spectrometer (XRS) — one of two instruments on MESSENGER designed to measure the abundances of many key elements on Mercury — has made several important discoveries since the orbital mission began. The magnesium/silicon, aluminum/silicon, and calcium/silicon ratios averaged over large areas of the planet's surface show that, unlike the surface of the Moon, Mercury's surface is not dominated by feldspar-rich rocks. XRS observations have also revealed substantial amounts of sulfur at Mercury's surface, lending support to prior suggestions from ground- based telescopic spectral observations that sulfide minerals are present. This discovery suggests that the original building blocks from which Mercury was assembled may have been less oxidized than those that formed the other terrestrial planets, and it has potentially important implications for understanding the nature of volcanism on Mercury. So, until the next report it seems all of these older theories might be out the window. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: Hi All, I would like to remind you of Russ Kempton's article in Meteorite! Kempton R. (1996) Abee: More Questions Than Answers (METEORITE! Magazine, Pallasite Press, November, 1996): Curiously, the study of light reflected from Mercury's surface indicates that it is iron-rich and oxygen-poor - characteristics shared with E chondrites.* ... or with some of their achondritic counterparts: the aubrites. * In 1998, our late Richard Norton wrote in RFS: Their low oxygen content suggests that they formed even closer to the Sun than the H-chondrites, possibly inside Mercury's orbit. NORTON O.R. (1998) Rocks From Space, p. 190, E-Chondrites: But Mercury's mean density of about 5.4 g/cm^3 is a major problem because enstatite chondrites have a density of about 3.4-3.7 g/cm^3. NWA 011 is also mentioned in the short list but here's another obstacle: ...its high FeO content, a circumstance which implies a parent body with a small metallic iron core. Mercury is believed to have a large iron core. Niquist et al. (2003) suggest that NWA 011 is of asteroidal rather than Mercurian origin. Love S.G. et al. (1995) think it highly likely that there are Mercurian meteorites in our collections although they should be rare (probably less than 1% of the amount of Martian meteorites in our collections)*. *Love S.G. et al. (1995) Recognizing mercurian meteorites (MAPS 30-3, 1995, pp. 269-278). Best wishes from rainy Southern Germany, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury Meteorites - the short list
Bernd, The very latest info on Mercuries composition does not even mention Fe or FeO. It seems to me if it was there NASA would have already mentioned it. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/media/NewsConference20110616.html Ut says; Mercury's Surface Composition The X-ray Spectrometer (XRS) — one of two instruments on MESSENGER designed to measure the abundances of many key elements on Mercury — has made several important discoveries since the orbital mission began. The magnesium/silicon, aluminum/silicon, and calcium/silicon ratios averaged over large areas of the planet's surface show that, unlike the surface of the Moon, Mercury's surface is not dominated by feldspar-rich rocks. XRS observations have also revealed substantial amounts of sulfur at Mercury's surface, lending support to prior suggestions from ground-based telescopic spectral observations that sulfide minerals are present. This discovery suggests that the original building blocks from which Mercury was assembled may have been less oxidized than those that formed the other terrestrial planets, and it has potentially important implications for understanding the nature of volcanism on Mercury. So, until the next report it seems all of these older theories might be out the window. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: Hi All, I would like to remind you of Russ Kempton's article in Meteorite! Kempton R. (1996) Abee: More Questions Than Answers (METEORITE! Magazine, Pallasite Press, November, 1996): Curiously, the study of light reflected from Mercury's surface indicates that it is iron-rich and oxygen-poor - characteristics shared with E chondrites.* ... or with some of their achondritic counterparts: the aubrites. * In 1998, our late Richard Norton wrote in RFS: Their low oxygen content suggests that they formed even closer to the Sun than the H-chondrites, possibly inside Mercury's orbit. NORTON O.R. (1998) Rocks From Space, p. 190, E-Chondrites: But Mercury's mean density of about 5.4 g/cm^3 is a major problem because enstatite chondrites have a density of about 3.4-3.7 g/cm^3. NWA 011 is also mentioned in the short list but here's another obstacle: ...its high FeO content, a circumstance which implies a parent body with a small metallic iron core. Mercury is believed to have a large iron core. Niquist et al. (2003) suggest that NWA 011 is of asteroidal rather than Mercurian origin. Love S.G. et al. (1995) think it highly likely that there are Mercurian meteorites in our collections although they should be rare (probably less than 1% of the amount of Martian meteorites in our collections)*. *Love S.G. et al. (1995) Recognizing mercurian meteorites (MAPS 30-3, 1995, pp. 269-278). Best wishes from rainy Southern Germany, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury Meteorites - the short list
Doug, I would like to add Cat MT. to this short list of possible meteorites from Mercury. Reason being that according to the latest report on Mercury. There was no mention of any Fe or FeO so , I assume neither one is very abundant. That said. any meteorite with metal is not a good candidate unless it is mixed with a known meteorite that does contain metal. Cat Mountain is the perfect candidate. It is a mixture of Achondite ( mercury surface material) and an L5 with metal in that portion. It only makes sense that anything powerful enough to knock material off of a planet is going to contain both planetary and inpactor material melted together. For this reason I would say that an L5 meteorite hit Mercury and knocked a mixture of the two lithologies and some time later it made it's way to Tucson. To add credence to this theory; Cat MT is part L5 and another meteorite was found within it's strewnfield which turned out to be an L5 (Snyder Hill). This too makes total sense. Naturally some of the material from the impact mixed together and some of the material did not mix but, they did travel together until their landing near Tucson in 1980-ish. The only thing missing from this equation is a non mixed piece of mercury which may also have already been found but, not yet identified. Stay tuned! So, I vote for Cat MT. as being from Mercury. Carl Meteoritemax. -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hello again Mercury Nornoids, Physics, opinions and biases aside ... can we build a concise list of Mercury meteorite candidates already in our collections (at least wistfully) and play a game to see if we can speculate on them one by one - before the scientific press - with information from MESSENGER - as candidate meteorites from Mercury? Or, better yet, not eliminate one or more ... ;-) ? 1. Bencubbinites 2. Angrites 3. GRA 06128 06129 4. NWA 011 and pairings 5. Mercury Meteor (parent body Mercury or Ford?) Sunnyside up, Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New type of fake moldavite coming soon?
MikeG, list, As a man who has earned much of his living in the art and collectible resale business. This is actually much worse news than people may realize. If these things are actually made of real glass then the testing of them for H2O will be difficult because all of the water was removed during the faking (melting) manufacturing process. If these are indeed fake. This could mean the end of Moldavites as a collectible. Once fakes get this good nobody wants them anymore. This happened to Roseville pottery. A Chinese firm purchased the actual vintage molds that were used to make Roseville Pottery and the Chinese figured out how to match the glaze colors. So, there went the Roseville collecting industry. It became virtually impossible to tell the old from the new. The risk of buying a fake is too great. Thermoluminesence can tell them apart but that it both destructive and costly. This is very very sad news. -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Yinan for the heads-up. I frequent the Vug, but haven't been there in a while and missed this article. :) Yes, that is an impressive forgery. If they can fake such a large piece, then they can also fake a much smaller piece. Their greed and ambition betray them, because such large pieces are fantastically rare, especially in perfect condition. Most of us will never have access to such a large and impressive Moldavite specimen, and it would cost a king's ransom to acquire and would surely come with museum or institution provenance. Buyer beware. The same thing has been happening with amber. There is a ton of fake and misrepresented amber on eBay that has frogs, big spiders, scorpions, even bats in it. Many of these are fakes, but some of them are well-done and can be tricky to spot. They might look real, but the red flag is rarity. Invertebrates like large frogs are astronomically rare and cost a fortune if they can be acquired at all. Seeing such a piece for sale on eBay for less than wheel-barrow full of money is suspect at best to begin with. The same would hold true for large spectacular moldavites. Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 8/1/11, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: My buddy Justin at The-Vug just put out a new article on Fakeminerals.com about a new type of fake moldavite that has been recently spotted in China: http://www.fakeminerals.com/?p=146 I'm not sure if this is the material people are already familiar with, or if it is indeed a new type, but it's impressive looking. - Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SLAGADOCIOUS / Interior photo?
Guido, Wow and congrats. Looks a lot like Cat MT. in every way. Also an IMB but, I too have questions if you would be so kind to answer. In the picture are the white inclusions Metal or silicate material? Also, in Cat MT. the interior is as dark as the crust. Is yours the same as well or is there a distinct fusion crust color change? Thanks. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Sure. Sonny, I don't have a problem with showing the interior cut surface. Here is a pic of the 22.5 gram full slice that was sent in for classification...and appraisal. http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i361/Airmuseum1/OCL5WOS---3-23-11.jpg Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: wahlpe...@aol.com Sent: Jul 30, 2011 4:32 PM To: majbaerm...@web.de, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SLAGADOCIOUS / Interior photo? Hm, this meteorite really looks somehow strange and atypical. It is very strange. Could you post pictures of the interior cut surface showing the whole meteorite next to the scale cube? Sonny -Original Message- From: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net; meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:30 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SLAGADOCIOUS! These are great news, Count, congratulations! It's a - welcome, I guess ;-) - remuneration for your persistence. Hm, this meteorite really looks somehow strange and atypical. But, as we can see: we'd never be too sure.Wish you lots of pleasure with your new guest from the skies,best,Matthias- Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.netTo: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 11:47 PMSubject: [meteorite-list] SLAGADOCIOUS! Had a bit of trouble posting this, so excuse me if it's a duplicate...or a triple! Hello Listees, Last month, some may recall that I sent out photos depicting a suspicious looking 108 gram find made 3/23/11 and asking for opinions. The general consensus was terrestrial and probably slag. I agreed initially with my respected and more experienced colleagues, but curiosity over traits that could be seen only by having the specimen in hand overcame my cheapness and I sent 22+ grams off to be classified. Today, I am pleased to announce that the unusal slag like exterior concealed an extremely fresh (WO/.1) L5 OC with an uncommon petrography. Efforts are under way to recover additional finds in the field, so I pray indulgence until we release the location which is in the western USA. http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i361/Airmuseum1/METEORITE%20FINDS%202/ Their out theregood hunting, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6337 (20110730) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6337 (20110730) __E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security.http://www.eset.com_ _Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list mailing listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li stinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SLAGADOCIOUS!
Guido, If there was ever a doubt that you are a true count this newest discovery confirms indeed that you get divine intervention on your hunts. First you find the largest Chondrite ever found in Nevada. Now you find the allusive Cat MT. Pairing. It is my understanding that this is THE FIRST confirmed pairing of Cat MT. The earlier mentioned pecan size example has never been officially verified and therefore likely does not exist. The part about Shirley Wetmore's identification is true. Shirley talked the dude into chipping off a tiny piece and X rayed it and confirmed it was largely made up of forsterite a form of olivine. With this revelation she was able to regain the attention of David Kring who had previously seen the whole rock and was one of many who had previously decided it was slag based on an exterior examination alone. Without Shirley's aid . This rock would likely still be considered slag. I have personally hunted there dozens of times and obviously knew what to look for as I had seen the original Cat MT in person many times before. I shared this very secret ( at the time) find location with the Johnson's and I was with them ( Dave and Jerome) when they each found a separate half of the Snyder Hill find. Dave found the first half on one side of the hill and Jerome found the other half a short time later on the other side of the hill. It seems it had landed on top of the hill , broke into two pieces. One went west and the other east and when found and reunited they fit perfectly back together. Interestingly it too is an L5 but, not an IMB. Could it be from the same fall? Maybe it is based on what we now know about Almahata sitta and how many different types can fall together. Guido, I don't know how you do it but you do it well. Congrats again. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD. Carancas and medal.
Please see my ebay sales. Carancas still at $.99 including a photo of Bob Haag. http://shop.ebay.com/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25 Thanks for looking. meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Memorabilia Auction AD
Speaking of rare Moon collectibles; I have a super rare medal / coin on ebay right now. That is perfectly legal. see link; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=220810355971ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Thanks for looking. meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: We'll see how this one goes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/science/space/10moon.html?_r=1hp Shreds of Moon History on the Block By DOUGLAS QUENQUA Published: July 9, 2011 a.. Recommend b.. Twitter c.. Sign In to E-Mail d.. Print e.. Reprints a.. ShareClose a.. Linkedin b.. Digg c.. MySpace d.. Permalink e.. It was two weeks before the liftoff of the Apollo 11 mission when Thomas Moser's boss walked into his office at NASA and announced, We're putting a flag on the moon. Enlarge This Image Goldberg Coins and Collectibles At bottom, remnants of the American flag that went to the moon, signed by Mr. Armstrong, are expected to bring $100,000 at auction. Enlarge This Image NASA Buzz Aldrin in a photograph taken by Neil Armstrong. Mr. Moser, then a 30-year-old mechanical engineer, was put in charge of designing a flag mechanism that could not only fit into the lunar module and survive the flight, but also make the flag appear to fly on the windless moon. His solution involved two sections of a staff, a telescoping tube and a nylon flag bought at a local housing goods store (Sears, he thinks). But in order for the flag to fit the staff, its edges needed to be trimmed. They were throwing it all in the trash, Mr. Moser recalled of the remnants in a recent interview, so I picked it up out of the trash can, mounted it and had Neil Armstrong sign it. Forty-two years later, Mr. Moser is auctioning off those flag remnants. The expected selling price: $100,000. There's so much attention on the manned space program right now that the timing may be good, Mr. Moser said, referring to the final launching of the space shuttle Atlantis on Friday. Mr. Moser's flag shreds are the star lot of an extensive space memorabilia auction being held in Beverly Hills, Calif., on Sunday. Other notable items include the astronaut Deke Slayton's handwritten training notes from the Mercury program and dozens of heat shields, crew patches and other ephemera that once transcended earthly bounds. For collectors, the remnants of the space flag are comparable to a Betsy Ross flag or the flag flying over the port in Baltimore in 1812, said Michael Orenstein, who is overseeing the auction for Goldberg Coins and Collectibles. Two days before the auction, online pre-bidding for the lot had reached $49,999. But trading in space nostalgia can be a dangerous business. In June, investigators confiscated a triangular nub of transparent tape an eighth of an inch wide from an auction house in St. Louis because it contained tiny particles of moon dust. Selling moon rocks, no matter how small, is illegal, as is selling NASA property that the agency has not willingly disposed of. Mr. Orenstein said that his auction contained no moon particles, and that all NASA property in the sale had been discarded by the agency long ago. A NASA spokesman declined to comment on the status of the items. There are also economic concerns. The collectibles market tends to follow the overall economy; when money is tight, even avid collectors are less likely to spend money on memorabilia. But Mr. Orenstein said he believed that rule did not apply to one-of-a-kind items like the flag remnants. Just give me two flag collectors who can't live without it, he said. As for Mr. Moser, he does not plan to attend the auction, but he was at Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Friday to watch the Atlantis lift off. I spent most of my life developing the shuttle, said Mr. Moser, who retired from NASA in 1989 after 25 years with the agency. I was there from sketch pad to launch pad. A version of this article appeared in print on July 10, 2011, on page A15 of the New York edition with the headline: Shreds of History, Going on the Block. - Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] XRF Test results UNWA First try
Jim, My posts are moderated so, they do not post in real time but , until Art releases them. Please excuse these delays. I don't know of any such links with XRF generated data. I only had my own data that I paid Blaine to produce from my own rocks. In order to compare data with that of known meteorites you have to have data for a few certain elements. Not the info you got from your XRF results. All of the published needed data that is used to plot these charts with are basically the same. the data you got for your UNWA is arbitrary in that nobody really uses much of what you were given for much of anything. The elements you do need data for are at a minimum is the following; Si, Ti, Al, Cr if possible because Cr is very telling , Fe, Mn, Mg, Ca,Na, Ni, With this data you can then go to published meteorite classifications and compare your numbers with theirs as reflected both in print form and on charts and graphs. This is the info that Blaine furnishes with his XRF gun services he provides. It should be useful to use to plot charts with but, this is the question that remains unanswered. What good does having this info really do if nobody acknowledges the comparisons as significant or relevant? Carl meteoritemax Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Carl, If you have links to XRF test result data on meteorites, can you please provide them to me? Thank you Jim Wooddell On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:14 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Jim, Scientists, List, I 'd like to hear more on this topic as well. Preferably from a qualified Scientist as far as where exactly this test ends up taking us? I have personally had several of these tests done on dozens of prospect rocks. . In my mind I thought I could easily use this chemical data to compare my data with known meteorites and determine based on like chemistry what I might have. This way no scientist is bothered by me until I had something to show them. At the end of the day. The results have turned out to be less telling than I expected. My madness was based on the fact that nearly all if not all rare meteorites that are classified as a particular classification are plotted on little charts and graphs to show that they plot with other known material of the same classification. And states the case that since known meteorite A plots in all of these areas and meteorite B plots right with them, then it too is the same classification. I know O tests are also needed but that is not in question here. What I question is; that this test in and of itself evidently proves nothing? In fact it seems that Scientists already know this? So, these tests have proven to be a complete and utter waste of time money and energy when done by laymen? This because I ended up having several rocks with the correct chemistry to plot EXACTLY on the Mars and Lunar charts right with the known meteorites. (to add to this confusion, there are also known meteorites that do not plot perfectly on these charts so, they are simply left off the chart but, acknowledged with a different color plot mark.). I thought this would be an easy home test. Simply go to Randy's site and copy all of his amazing charts and plot your results directly onto the same charts he provided. If they plot with Randy's plots then , they are from the moon. Go to a number of other sites and print out these same charts from Mars and plot your results right with theirs. This method actually worked out for Calcalong Creek. The first Lunar found outside of Antarctica. Bonyton, Hill and Haag saw a meteorite that looked Lunar so, they broke down it's chemistry and determined that since it's ratios were similar to the known moon's ratios. (yes, there were also like minerals) . Therefore it is Lunar. This determination was made prior to having Oxygen isotopic studies done on the material. (which as we all now know is important). In fact the formal presentation of this amazing little meteorite not only declares it has a Lunar origin but, it also reemphasizes the fact that these chemical ratios are actually definitive of origin. Therefore any meteorite that matches these ratios must originate from the same parent body. Which In that case was the Earth's moon. Again, I have found this is either not the case for the layman or the testing is flawed? Blaine knows his testing gun pretty well by now and he feels his numbers are pretty accurate and it seems to me they must be at least as good as the Mars probes and other remote sensing devises are that we use and trust? This said because I also have rocks that plot exactly with some of the ones
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Arnaud, According to Bob Haag's Field Guide Of Meteorites in both the 10th and 12th editions Bob lists the number 1 meteorite as Atacama, North Chile and says it is a Hexaheddrite. Based on this info and Bob's vast amount of experience. If I wanted a piece of Atacama , I would be looking for a piece of North Chile. And it looks like the pictures you show as well. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hi Arnaud, Atacama is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. Perou is not mentioned...(see below) Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym Atacama. See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym is rather Atacama Desert or Desert of Atacama (Grady, op. cit.). Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 but before 1866) For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for some olivine remanents. Now against Imilac is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) Regarding Perou, this name was never reported for Imilac, though the 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym Perou (or Pérou, or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the Perou (link 2) is most probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the Atacama (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), nor regarding its Ni analysis I hope this helps to promote to some extent the schmilblick Bonne chance Zelimir (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains ragarding samples from link 1 ) r...@free.fr a écrit : Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the Academy of the Floral Games or College of the Happy Science, in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his meteorite manuscripts blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called Atacama, sometimes with Perou attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna.
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
The Atacama is probably this.; http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php It is from North Chile and is a Hexahedrite. The othetr is probably Imilac. Carl Meteoritemax -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. r...@free.fr wrote: Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the Academy of the Floral Games or College of the Happy Science, in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his meteorite manuscripts blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called Atacama, sometimes with Perou attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, Cr 0,54 http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg #2: so called Perou 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g acquired in 1958 or later http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg Hope you can help! Renaud __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
Blaine Reed had an actual shuttle tile in his room at the Gem show. I don't recall the price. This was a real actual tile with numbers on it indicating where it went on the shuttle not just the material used to make real tiles as indicated on this web site. Blaine's was significantly more expensive because it was real but, I don't think it was flown in space. I was able to hold it. It weighs almost nothing. It feels like you are holding chalk, NOT ceramic tile. Carl Meteoritemax . -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. John.L.Cabassi j...@cabassi.net wrote: http://www.thespaceshop.com/shuttilin.html -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gilmer Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:20 AM To: MexicoDoug Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust Hi Doug and List, Doug - it is great to see you posting again. I have missed your insights. :) They are selling heat tiles from the shuttles at KSC? I didn't know that, and I want one! I've been meaning to acquire some more space-related items - aerogel, heat shield tiles, etc. Do they have a website where I can order the tiles, or do I need to visit the gift shop in person? Best regards, MikeG PS - is there somewhere online to buy the Russian tiles also? -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/25/11, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: JG wrote to MG: What law are you talking about? Ditto! A fact-supported discussion would be so much nicer. It is my understanding that when Apollo lost its funding, oodles of relics entered the private domain and there wasn't much ado about it - rather, a tacit acceptance and a party atmosphere pervaded in the wake of Moonphoria and non had any scientific value at the time. Where are the retroactive vigorous sting operations hunting down these national treasures? I am sure the same laws, whatever they might be, cover them. Post-facto contrived rules are a violation which seems to date to the Magna Carta and any remotely civilized society. All material loaned or provided in exchange for analyses to be done which is covered by modern agreements (as Jeff alludes to) has a clear paper trail, but there are the nonsensical cases like tape on the Hasselblad magazines demonstrate how ludicrous things can become for reasons foreign to science and domestic to collectors willingness to pay. I take my place behind the line of those who have already pointed this out. Moon specimens that were incidental and innocuous gifts of questionable or no value at the time seem to have taken a special place. But, there are other exceptions as well. As I peruse the aisles of the gift shop at KSC I am tempted to buy a Space Shuttle heat tile. Yet NASA has allegedly gone on record saying that it will not dispose of them by sale to the public (reason: we could be liable for unintended harm they might cause). Rumor has it that the Soviet Buran tiles are more interesting to collect and Russia has no such hang ups over them, so I'll hold out for one of them. If I had an American one it would not be satisfying in present company. I couldn't freely share it with my international friends without risking being thrown in jail for providing sensitive military secrets to other nations... at least that is the rumor on how it was for a long time ... There is a clear demonstration of double standard and a willingness to invent retroactive laws, which should be prohibited constitutionally, but the American system separates the judicial and that makes legislation from the bench a convenient option in cases like this. How frustrating for Mr. Rosen, the guy who bought the gifted moon rock from a Honduran official for a large sum of money. The government simply snatched it from him and it was not because the Hondurans filed a claim. If he had been compensated for his recovery of the specimen it would be different in my view. But the way it went down, there is reason to be wary of the court's freeloading and arbitrary mindset in these cases. It is quite removed from science and boils down to politics and setting cruel and
Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
Michael, Rafael, List, Is it possible NASA has it's own people (police) enforcing this self proclaimed laws against owning material. Or is their a congressional order making this material illegal after the fact? After is was given away as trophies. This method of self enforcement seems to work well for another Federal agency known as the IRS. They have their own set of rules and also self enforce their own rules with their own enforcement people without do process of the law. I ask because as I have said before on this list; I have seen and held and actual piece of the moon that was returned from the Apollo missions. A friend brought it over to my home. I did not think to photograph it at the time but it was about a 5 gram fragment encased in resin and it had a presentation plaque right on it that stated it was an actual piece of the moon returned from an Apollo mission. It did not say it was a facsimile of the moon but a real piece. This was given to one of the bosses at one of the aerospace companies that built the ships for the missions. He has since passed away but, retired from Raytheon right here in Tucson and it was shown to me by his grandson. Out of fear from this story surfacing a couple of years ago he now refuses to show it to me again until this is cleared up. He too has not been able to find any written evidence that NASA has the legal right to confiscate this material. If memory serves me correctly, The past article stated that this material was only on loan to these lucky recipients but, it is to be returned upon their death. The piece I saw did not say that it was on loan anywhere on the [piece itself. So, again, my question is. Do these NASA folks or congress actually have any of this ownership business in writing any where we could see it? Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rafael, I do not know for certain that owning Apollo moon dust is illegal. In fact, I think samples such as Florian's tape specimens are or should be legal. Up until recently, I just assumed that they were. The fact that law enforcement has stepped in and is actively pursuing these samples at least gives the impression that law enforcement thinks it is illegal. I am not an attorney, nor have I worked for NASA or government. But, it seems to be commonly-accepted wisdom that owning NASA-sourced samples is a no-no. When the US government handed out moon rocks to other governments, some of these eventually found their way onto the private market. There was at least one publicized case where the sample was confiscated and returned. So whether it is legal or not, the current modus-operandi of law enforcement is to harass and prosecute owners of such samples as soon as they are discovered. In the case where a NASA intern stole a sample from JSC, he was prosecuted and rightfully so. But, I do not agree with people being harassed or arrested for trading tiny pieces of tape with a milligram of dust on them - that is silly and a waste of taxpayer money. You won't get any argument from me about that. :) Law-enforcement is not infallible and the make mistakes all the time. Just because someone is arrested for something, doesn't mean it is illegal. But, the fact that people are being harassed for this now, would make me think twice about trading in this material until the legal questions are resolved. Best regards, MikeG PS - nobody is going to lose this debate, because in my case, you are preaching to the choir! :) -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - I ask to Michael Gilbert (Galactic Stone), can you tell me exactly *(Date)* *which* law prohibits individuals to have samples of lunar rocks brought by NASA. This is something I would like to know as well, and if anyone can answer this definitively, I am anxious to hear it. On 6/25/11, Rafael Navarro rafael.navar...@gmail.com wrote: Well ,Michael Blood you can not talk about the speck in your brother's eye, when you do not see the beam in yours, (the eyes not see to inward). I had the suspicion that NASA gave lunar rock samples (Apollo 11) without having studied, hize a research about it and wanted to share my findings with members of Met-list, but the editors of the list, censored my posts by
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
Carl., Thank you so much for this very good information. So, If as you say the FeO is such a big deal. Why then would they have neglected to mention it if they found it? Is it possible Mercury is extremely depleted in FeO? I mean how could they miss it if it's there? And if it's not there. What kind of basalt would that match? Thank you. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury question
Rocks and minerals found in planetary meteorites have very little to do with where they originated from. That question is answered by analysis of the Oxygen isotopes. As evidenced by the NWA 5400 discussion and many others. It's not the minerals that matter it's the oxygen they contain. Another odd ball in this regard was GRA 06128. It plots with the brachinites but mineralogically is nothing like any other brachinite. But it was determined to be a Brachinite anyway. What I was asking and what Sterling asked in a better way was; What kind of rocks are they finding on Mercury as they relate or compare to which rocks found here on earth? It seemed to me that they would be rather metallic rocks ? Anyone ? Carl-- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Mike, I was referring to Sterling's text:...Mercury surface, and presumably its crust, is composed of high-potassium non-feldspar rocks., which I believe is opposite to what is generally found in angrites. Cheers, Pete Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury question From: meteoritem...@gmail.com To: rsvp...@hotmail.com CC: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Good question Pete. :) Is there anything coming out of this new Mercury data (yet) that is relevant to the angrite parent body issue? Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/17/11, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: I love it when scientific consensus gets turned on its head with facts! (My first astronomy book, Golden Library of Knowledge, The Moon, 1959, has three theories for the creation of lunar craters; volcanic, meteorite, and the bubble theory - popping bubbles while in a molten state) I'm assuming that angrites are slowly being discounted from Mercury origin? Cheers, Pete From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:20:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury question Carl, List, Only one Mercury question? What is revealed from the first bulk composition scans is that Mercury surface, and presumably its crust, is composed of high-potassium non-feldspar rocks. In a word, Mercury is nothing like it's supposed to be. Mercury appears to have been made (the rock part) from high-volatile stuff, a notion that stands everything everybody has ever thought about Mercury on its head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBCExa2Rgwfeature=player_embedded Being non--field-geologically literate, I would like somebody on the List to post a list of Earthly high-potassium non-feldspar rocks rich in sulfur. I suppose that would be a bunch of high-potassium metallic sulfides, because one of the things we're seeing is a lot of sulfur on the surface of Mercury. Those yellow markings and stains in the photos? I don't think anybody ever thought Mercury would be a place rich in volatiles -- completely illogical. Welcome to the Real World... When I started out every book said the craters on the Moon were volcanoes. We spent a noticeable amount of the time we were actually ON the Moon looking for the evidence for lunar volcanoes. There aren't any volcanoes on the Moon. In one of the early Messenger flyby's there was a featured imaged called Spider crater. I posted here that I was pretty sure it was a caldera volcano. Now it appears that a lot of the craters on Mercury MAY be volcanoes. It would ironic (at the least) if we were to go from Moon volcanoes that are really impacts all the way to Mercury impacts that are really volcanoes! http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/science/space/17mercury.html Even better would be if Mercurian volcanoes were caused by impacts, because every geophysicist on Earth rejects the notion that impacts could cause volcanoes (and flood basalts). As long as we are going to be wrong about most things, why not be wrong about everything? (I love that NYTimes headline Close Up, Mercury Is Less Boring. Well, Earth Monkeys, at
[meteorite-list] AD NASA rare coin / Carancas
List, Please check out my rare NASA coin Men on the Moon and Carancas meteorite still at at $.99. click below: http://shop.ebay.com/meteoritemax/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=25 Thanks for looking. Carl -- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mercury question
List, I have a question. With this new data from MESSENGER about the surface composition of Mercury; http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=174 What does this mean it terms of what a meteorite would be expected to look like? Would it be metallic -ish? Anyone, Thanks. Carl Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
