[meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens; Changed to (Do we really need a bombastic, self serving IMCA meteorite dealer to moderate The List)

[bill kies via Meteorite-list]

Sorry everyone, I forgot to chance the subject line in my last post.

"Bigjohn",

Your offer to moderate our list is not only a conflict of interest on many 
levels but downright absurd. It also reeks of a feeling of self entitlement 
that's actually based on very little in the qualifications department. Who are 
you to decide what constitutes bickering. Where did you get the ability to 
define whats "out of hand"?

Heated discussions can be very enlightening and reveal many truths. If this 
bothers you there's always the delete button or you can cancel your 
subscription and concentrate on your real Administrative duties. The duties you 
list as qualifications to give you the right to restrict honest, passionate 
discourse here.




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Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[bill kies via Meteorite-list]

"Bigjohn",


Your offer to moderate our list is not only a conflict of interest on many 
levels but downright absurd. It also reeks of a feeling of self entitlement 
that's actually based on very little in the qualifications department. Who are 
you to decide what constitutes bickering. Where did you get the ability to 
define whats "out of hand"?


Heated discussions can be very enlightening and reveal many truths. If this 
bothers you there's always the delete button or you can cancel your 
subscription and concentrate on your real Administrative duties. The duties you 
list as qualifications to give you the right to restrict honest, passionate 
discourse here.




From: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com> on behalf of 
Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 5:32 PM
To: metlist
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens
  

Dear Art,
Hope you are well.

I formally request that I be made a “Moderator” for the Metlist, so that there 
is SOMEONE, who can put an end to this back and forth bickering when it gets 
out of hand. Which it has in this scenario...

I have extensive experience as an Administrator for both the “Meteorites” page 
on facebook, and the “Is it a Meteorite” page at the same online venue, for 
numerous years now.

Most Sincerely,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295

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Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Dear Art,
Hope you are well.

I formally request that I be made a “Moderator” for the Metlist, so that there 
is SOMEONE, who can put an end to this back and forth bickering when it gets 
out of hand. Which it has in this scenario...

I have extensive experience as an Administrator for both the “Meteorites” page 
on facebook, and the “Is it a Meteorite” page at the same online venue, for 
numerous years now.

Most Sincerely,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295







Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 3/19/18 at 4:51 PM, Jason Utas wrote:

> I've sold some of those pieces of NWA 7034 to NASA, scientists in Japan,
> Europe, etc., etc., etc.  They were all happy to get NWA 7034 at 1/4 the
> price of what some other dealers were asking.  And, just like Ruben's NWA
> 6963, it was all real.
> 
> At the end of the day, that's what you're fighting for.  Artificially
> inflated values like those fostered by the GIA.  Makes sense when you're
> sitting on kilograms of a Lunar and prices have tanked.   Transparent.
> 
> Your response to a relevant point with repeated personal attacks that
> change tune every time I refute them is, frankly, pathetic.  Grow up.
> 
> Glad you finally conceded that the rules are the rules, and that neither
> you, nor the Nomenclature Committee, enforce them.  Hopefully this can be
> dropped on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Adam Hupe 
> wrote:
> 
> > Jason
> >
> > Complain to the Meteoritical Society if you actually think they will
> > listen given your reputation.   Congratulations you were one of the first
> > to self-pair a key planetary meteorite which has not gone unnoticed by your
> > peers.
> >
> > All my meteorites are official so I sleep fine at night.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/19/2018 11:09 AM, Jason Utas wrote:
> >
> > "Two or more newly discovered meteorites in dense collection areas may be
> > considered paired with each other or with another formally named meteorite
> > if there is overwhelming evidence, including geographic data that are
> > consistent with the meteorites being part of a single fall. The evidence
> > must be evaluated by the Committee. All approved members of a pairing group
> > will be named with a geographic prefix plus a number in the same way as are
> > unpaired meteorites; special type-specimen requirements will apply to newly
> > paired meteorites (§7.1g). If two or more numbered meteorites with formal
> > names are subsequently determined to be paired, their names should not be
> > changed."
> >
> > The rules are the rules.  All you've established in this thread is that
> > "the scientists" sometimes break the rules.  You've broken the rules.  And
> > you're somehow, for reasons I cannot fathom, demanding that everyone else
> > must actually follow them.
> >
> > You're a bleeding hypocrite.
> >
> > It is what it is.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 1:29 AM, Adam Hupe  > > wrote:
> >
> >> And one more thing, I see you were deliberate in trying to start multiple
> >> arguments by forwarding these messages.  I reply all since you felt is
> >> necessary to include others.
> >>
> >> Interesting, I can debate for months but I find your responses so silly
> >> as to not be taken too seriously.
> >>
> >> Perhaps you should join the debate team at UCLA to brush up on your
> >> skills.
> >>
> >> LMAO
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/19/2018 12:10 AM, Jason Utas wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh, right.  Now I'm on medication of some kind.  I'll call you on this:
> >> please provide evidence.
> >>
> >> Oh, that's right.  There isn't and can't be any.  I'm not on any
> >> medication of any kind, prescription or otherwise.  I'd take low-dose
> >> aspirin, but I donate platelets every month or so, and they advised me not
> >> to.
> >>
> >> This is the kind of shit I'm talking about.  You don't like where the
> >> thread is going?  Throw out baseless lies.  Great strategy.
> >>
> >> I cited all of my claims, and any of your *former* friends can
> >> corroborate everything I just said about the IMCA.  There's a reason you
> >> don't have any friends left on the meteorite-list.  At the end of the day,
> >> you're talking shit about me for quoting rules at you and pointing out that
> >> what you and others have done did not agree with them.  That's not
> >> "badmouthing" anyone.  It's stating facts.
> >>
> >> Your lawsuit with Mani was thrown out.  Even the impartial arm of the
> >> American Judicial System says you're full of shit.  I hope you enjoyed
> >> paying that retainer.
> >>
> >> I didn't even say you were insane.  One of your fellow
> >> then-IMCA-board-members did.
> >>
> >> https://aeon.co/essays/so-you-re-surrounded-by-idiots-guess-
> >> who-the-real-jerk-is
> >>
> >> Cut your losses.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Adam Hupe <
> >> raremeteori...@centurylink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jason,
> >>>
> >>> Insane?  I am not the person who takes medications 

Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

Imagine the outrage if dealers borrowed (stole) NGC or PCGS numbers for 
coins that another dealer had graded?  Or stole BGS or PSA numbers to 
describe just any old rare Baseball Cards or simply "borrowed" GIA 
certification report numbers for Diamonds?   They would be charged with 
fraud.


Numbers and nomenclature assigned to NWA meteorites apply only to the 
stones that were submitted and formally studied at the time of 
classification.  These are basically laboratory sample numbers and do 
not apply to subsequently found stones or batches.  Numbers and Total 
Known Weights are officially assigned for a reason; mainly so 
laboratories and research scientists know for sure what material they 
are working with. Collectors see these numbers as some form of 
protection believing that if they have a number assignment, they were 
studied by a qualified research scientist, not some poser. Self-paired 
stones have never been examined by a qualified scientists and were never 
peer-reviewed thus they do not deserve to piggy-back official numbers.


Lets take a sector from the collectables market that is performing well 
like 1960s era muscle cars for instance. Try entering a muscle car into 
an auction, claiming it is original, and see what happens when the 
numbers are found not to match?  You will never be asked to consign 
another car again and you will be blacklisted.


Collectors do care about legitimate number assignments and real TKWs so 
should never settle for self-paired, undocumented stones placed on the 
market.


Besides all that, members of the IMCA took an oath and agreed to following:

6.I agree that unclassified 'meteorites' that have not been verified 
as meteorites might not be meteorites. I will not sell or trade any 
meteorites or any questionable meteoritic material unless I first obtain 
verification. I agree to specify verified but unclassified material as 
such in connection with any sale, trade, or other transaction related to 
the same. Meteoritical Society guidelines will prevail in the 
circumstance of meteorite naming and pairing. I understand and agree 
that, as a member, I may be required to provide further evidence to the 
Board (or other relevant I.M.C.A. Committee), including but not limited 
to: the verification process utilized for unclassified meteorites, 
and/or documentation from an approved testing institution or approved 
individual of the Board's choosing.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list]

Adam, If you read the history part of the bulletin it indicates there is 
perhaps a lot of stones found. While the classifier may have only had 3 in his 
possession as indicated lower in the bulletin. Clearly there is a lot of this 
material. here is the history as written ; 
"  In September, 2011, a Moroccan meteorite hunter found the first pieces of 
NWA 6963 and sold it to AHabibi without giving the exact provenance. The hunter 
continued collecting pieces in the same area for about 6 months. In mid-May, 
2012, the NWA 6963 locality, near the river Oued Touflit, became widely known 
and hundreds of meteorite hunters went to the area searching for more pieces. 
Pieces ranging from 100 to 700 g have been recovered, as well as a few small 
pieces (3-10 g), most of them are broken and partially covered by a thin fusion 
crust. The total mass may be as much as 8-10 kg. ". 
Carl
--
Love & Life

 Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list  wrote: 
> Nice stone, what laboratory confirmed it?  I only ask because only three 
> pieces are listed in the Meteoritical Bulletin database.
> 
> https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+6963=namescontains=50=ge==All=name=All=All===0=Normal%20table=54565
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> On 3/13/2018 4:54 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I purchased quite a few NWA 6963 Martian Specimens in Tucson -
> > February 2018. After slicing and selling many of the individuals I
> > came to the last one, a 40 gram specimen.  As I began to take slices
> > off I started seeing inclusions that looked as if they swirled around
> > the interior of the meteorite in a fluid motion. In reality the slices
> > looked more like a loaf of marble rye bread than any Mars specimen I'd
> > seen previously. After contacting two well known meteorite scientists
> > and asking if what I was seeing was a weathering pattern they both
> > informed me that it looked like shock melt. The slices listed on ebay
> > have NOT been polished as sometimes a polished surface takes away the
> > sharp contrast in the two lithologies.
> > 
> > Worth a look even if you're not looking to buy!
> > https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=mr-meteorite=323140487648&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xshock+melted+nwa+6963.TRS0&_nkw=shock+melted+nwa+6963&_sacat=0
> > 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

Nice stone, what laboratory confirmed it?  I only ask because only three 
pieces are listed in the Meteoritical Bulletin database.


https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+6963=namescontains=50=ge==All=name=All=All===0=Normal%20table=54565

Best Regards,

Adam


On 3/13/2018 4:54 PM, Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hi all,

I purchased quite a few NWA 6963 Martian Specimens in Tucson -
February 2018. After slicing and selling many of the individuals I
came to the last one, a 40 gram specimen.  As I began to take slices
off I started seeing inclusions that looked as if they swirled around
the interior of the meteorite in a fluid motion. In reality the slices
looked more like a loaf of marble rye bread than any Mars specimen I'd
seen previously. After contacting two well known meteorite scientists
and asking if what I was seeing was a weathering pattern they both
informed me that it looked like shock melt. The slices listed on ebay
have NOT been polished as sometimes a polished surface takes away the
sharp contrast in the two lithologies.

Worth a look even if you're not looking to buy!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=mr-meteorite=323140487648&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xshock+melted+nwa+6963.TRS0&_nkw=shock+melted+nwa+6963&_sacat=0


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[meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list]

Hi all,

I purchased quite a few NWA 6963 Martian Specimens in Tucson -
February 2018. After slicing and selling many of the individuals I
came to the last one, a 40 gram specimen.  As I began to take slices
off I started seeing inclusions that looked as if they swirled around
the interior of the meteorite in a fluid motion. In reality the slices
looked more like a loaf of marble rye bread than any Mars specimen I'd
seen previously. After contacting two well known meteorite scientists
and asking if what I was seeing was a weathering pattern they both
informed me that it looked like shock melt. The slices listed on ebay
have NOT been polished as sometimes a polished surface takes away the
sharp contrast in the two lithologies.

Worth a look even if you're not looking to buy!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=mr-meteorite=323140487648&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xshock+melted+nwa+6963.TRS0&_nkw=shock+melted+nwa+6963&_sacat=0

-- 



Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com
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