Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Dear List, Sorry, it took so long to get back to you on this. I just got back from a grueling Mojave Desert meteorite hunt which I will get into later. Thank you for the compliments. There is no real secret to good meteorite preparation. I learned the hard way just like anybody else. I found that with time and experience the end product will become better. My experience comes from preparing over 20,000 terrestrial rocks, over 35,000 meteorite specimens and in excess of 10,000 hours on the equipment. Although I have lapidary saws ranging from 4 to 24, I find that my 8 saw is used the most. There is no particular saw blade supplier I like the best and have tried just about every brand available. I avoid cheap Chinese made blades and polishing disks at all costs having had one shatter on me. This brings up an important issue. Always wear safety goggles and use the plexiglass glass shields that come with the equipment. On larger cuts, I find that older well-maintained machines like a Highlands Park do a much better job and are built to last a lifetime. Hydraulic feeds are the best followed by gravity, then worm gear and finally freehand. I freehand a lot of the smaller pieces using a rail and clamp system because I like to feel the work and know when the blade is beginning to bind. That way, if I run into a large piece of metal, I can slow it down. The secret to a good finish is to use every grit until you reach the desired polish. It is important to clean the equipment between grit changes. When approaching the final polish, I continually rotate the piece manually as it is being ground so that there are no swirl marks left by the polishing unit. Do not waste your time with a automatic gravity feed polisher as it will take 8 hours whereas the same task can be completed by manually holding the piece in less than a half hour including grit changes. Wear a mask when polishing as the vapor coming off of the polisher is not good to breath. Finally, I mostly use distilled water as a coolant but will use kerosene or mineral oil if a situation calls for it. Some meteorites have water soluble minerals in them like E-Chondrites and Aubrites. I never dry polish other than metal meteorites because I do not care for the dust which you can taste for days sometimes once it imbeds itself in your sinuses . Gotta go, I hope this is helpful. Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Hi Count and List, You are fortunate to work with Adam firsthand and watch him work his magic. It's no secret in the collector world that the Hupes do some top-notch preparation work for all of their specimens. When I purchase a meteorite from Adam or Greg, I know I am getting some of the best preparation available, even if the specimen is a small micro. I wouldn't expect them to divulge their trade-secrets for preparation, but I was hoping for a couple of pointers on how to polish these hard to polish types. The responses I have received in public and private have been valuable and I am very thankful for the advice. It seems part of my problem is dry sanding and part is the fact that I don't have a lap-polisher. I guess I could do some wet-sanding, using distilled water, but I don't like introducing moisture into a specimen unless it is absolutely necessary. That is why the specimens I prepare are stable and free of oxidation. The only water my specimens see is during cutting (which is unavoidable) and then they go straight into a hot waiting oven for 6-10 hours to purge all remaining water. I use distilled water during cutting. Once the pieces are dry, I don't like getting them wet again. But, I will try some wet-sanding tonight and see how it goes. Does anyone know if/where I can purchase some diamond grit sandpaper for hand-sanding? I have been using the typical carbide sandpaper from the local hardware store - 100, 200, 320, 400, 600. I purchase higher grits online because they are hard to find locally without paying an arm and leg - 800, 1000, 1200, 1500. But I don't recall seeing any sandpaper with diamond-based grit. I'd like to locate some if I can. Right now I am polishing a gorgeous IMB meteorite for another dealer. This meteorite takes a great polish, unlike the CR2 I am also preparing. I'll be busy polishing most of the night and my right-arm will be tired to the point of fatigue. I should have an incredible Hulk right arm by now. On the bright side of hand-polishing - I am learning to use my left hand/arm to good effect, once my right side tires out. LOL Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone - On 10/28/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Peter, Ed, Mike and List, I have spent a few days cutting and polishing dozens of various types with Adam Hupe'. With his guidance I set up my own shop with 6 and 8 saws and table and hand mounted polishing equipment. Basically, Adam uses quality diamond blades and arbor free polishing discs. Inspection cuts and slices are made with as fine a blade as will do the material in order to keep the kerf as thin as possible and reduce loss.. and at the same time eliminate the deep saw marks left by cheaper, thicker, blades. Polishing is accomplished with diamond impregnated discs both powered and in hand held blocks. He is a virtuoso with being able to turn our nice even, polished slices by hand. But, I never saw him dry cut or polish anything. He uses distilled water. This could be the secret, because when I used the same equipment dry, I couldn't get the same results until I added water for cooling and cleaning. The water also adds a fine abrasive sedimentary element to the polishing mix that I think is overlooked in it's ability to take up minute imperfections. Because of the fine (max.018) cut of his blades, I rarely found that I had to use coarser grained material to start polishing. Oh! Yes! It's really important to dress and clear the saw blade between cuts by running it through a piece of hand held common red brick. I could get by starting with 600 grit on small samples of friable material and move right into 1000 and then go on up. Bigger, harder, meteorites, or where I may have gotten ham handed with the saw, required 300 to start. Remember these are diamond impregnated polishing discs and hand held blocks like the type used by masons to finish counter top granite and marble. They can be bought in sets on eBay. I learned from Adam how to hand hold specimens safely while cutting and polishing. We both agree that there is something to feeling the pressure through your fingers on the stone. All of this seems, I'm sure, very ordinary and it isn't rocket science, but the key info here is to use the best diamond abrasives and the smallest diameter blades... and work by hand...and use water to carry off the removed material from the surface. Dry them out in the oven and fine finish wit ultra fine jeweler's non-resin cloths. P.S. Watch out for Urelites...they eat polishing discs. Have fun, Count
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Hi Mike and All, I am out in the desert SW hunting and will be flying back home tomorrow afternoon. Seems the Count has answered a majority of the polishing tips I would have provided so I won't strain my eyes tapping on this tiny phone keypad. :) One of the greatest, and not so secret 'techniques', is hiring Marlin Cilz who does beyond fantastic for meteorites too large for my saw! Have fun! Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Oct 28, 2011, at 2:55 PM, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Count and List, You are fortunate to work with Adam firsthand and watch him work his magic. It's no secret in the collector world that the Hupes do some top-notch preparation work for all of their specimens. When I purchase a meteorite from Adam or Greg, I know I am getting some of the best preparation available, even if the specimen is a small micro. I wouldn't expect them to divulge their trade-secrets for preparation, but I was hoping for a couple of pointers on how to polish these hard to polish types. The responses I have received in public and private have been valuable and I am very thankful for the advice. It seems part of my problem is dry sanding and part is the fact that I don't have a lap-polisher. I guess I could do some wet-sanding, using distilled water, but I don't like introducing moisture into a specimen unless it is absolutely necessary. That is why the specimens I prepare are stable and free of oxidation. The only water my specimens see is during cutting (which is unavoidable) and then they go straight into a hot waiting oven for 6-10 hours to purge all remaining water. I use distilled water during cutting. Once the pieces are dry, I don't like getting them wet again. But, I will try some wet-sanding tonight and see how it goes. Does anyone know if/where I can purchase some diamond grit sandpaper for hand-sanding? I have been using the typical carbide sandpaper from the local hardware store - 100, 200, 320, 400, 600. I purchase higher grits online because they are hard to find locally without paying an arm and leg - 800, 1000, 1200, 1500. But I don't recall seeing any sandpaper with diamond-based grit. I'd like to locate some if I can. Right now I am polishing a gorgeous IMB meteorite for another dealer. This meteorite takes a great polish, unlike the CR2 I am also preparing. I'll be busy polishing most of the night and my right-arm will be tired to the point of fatigue. I should have an incredible Hulk right arm by now. On the bright side of hand-polishing - I am learning to use my left hand/arm to good effect, once my right side tires out. LOL Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone - On 10/28/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Peter, Ed, Mike and List, I have spent a few days cutting and polishing dozens of various types with Adam Hupe'. With his guidance I set up my own shop with 6 and 8 saws and table and hand mounted polishing equipment. Basically, Adam uses quality diamond blades and arbor free polishing discs. Inspection cuts and slices are made with as fine a blade as will do the material in order to keep the kerf as thin as possible and reduce loss.. and at the same time eliminate the deep saw marks left by cheaper, thicker, blades. Polishing is accomplished with diamond impregnated discs both powered and in hand held blocks. He is a virtuoso with being able to turn our nice even, polished slices by hand. But, I never saw him dry cut or polish anything. He uses distilled water. This could be the secret, because when I used the same equipment dry, I couldn't get the same results until I added water for cooling and cleaning. The water also adds a fine abrasive sedimentary element to the polishing mix that I think is overlooked in it's ability to take up minute imperfections. Because of the fine (max.018) cut of his blades, I rarely found that I had to use coarser grained material to start polishing. Oh! Yes! It's really important to dress and clear the saw blade between cuts by running it through a piece of hand held common red brick. I could get by starting with 600 grit on small samples of friable material and move right into 1000 and then go on up. Bigger, harder, meteorites, or where I may have gotten ham handed with the saw, required 300 to start. Remember these are diamond impregnated polishing discs and hand held blocks like the type used by masons to finish counter top granite and marble. They can be bought in sets on eBay. I learned from Adam how to hand hold
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Hi Mike and List, Purchase the diamond polishing blocks online at: http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Tile-Tools/Polishing-Pads-Buffing-Compounds/Diamond-Hand-Pad-Polishing These are easier to use than the individual grit blocks and they are the same price. $100.00 I use a shallow plastic tray with a 1/2 inch, or so of distilled water and place the block in the bottom and move the meteorite by hand. Larger examples I hold on the bottom of the pan and move the block instead. Just enough water in the bottom to sluice off the block every few strokes. I find the argument that distilled water is bad for anything other than a pristine specimen undergoing scientific study unconvincing. I have had no incidents of accelerated deterioration, or rusting, with a specimen that has dried and stored properly. Just think how much water the stone has been subjected to in the hundreds to thousands of years prior to being found. (new falls excepted). Ambient high humidity locations subject your stones to water no matter what. I'm fortunate to live in the desert. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 28, 2011 2:55 PM To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Cc: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?) Hi Count and List, You are fortunate to work with Adam firsthand and watch him work his magic. It's no secret in the collector world that the Hupes do some top-notch preparation work for all of their specimens. When I purchase a meteorite from Adam or Greg, I know I am getting some of the best preparation available, even if the specimen is a small micro. I wouldn't expect them to divulge their trade-secrets for preparation, but I was hoping for a couple of pointers on how to polish these hard to polish types. The responses I have received in public and private have been valuable and I am very thankful for the advice. It seems part of my problem is dry sanding and part is the fact that I don't have a lap-polisher. I guess I could do some wet-sanding, using distilled water, but I don't like introducing moisture into a specimen unless it is absolutely necessary. That is why the specimens I prepare are stable and free of oxidation. The only water my specimens see is during cutting (which is unavoidable) and then they go straight into a hot waiting oven for 6-10 hours to purge all remaining water. I use distilled water during cutting. Once the pieces are dry, I don't like getting them wet again. But, I will try some wet-sanding tonight and see how it goes. Does anyone know if/where I can purchase some diamond grit sandpaper for hand-sanding? I have been using the typical carbide sandpaper from the local hardware store - 100, 200, 320, 400, 600. I purchase higher grits online because they are hard to find locally without paying an arm and leg - 800, 1000, 1200, 1500. But I don't recall seeing any sandpaper with diamond-based grit. I'd like to locate some if I can. Right now I am polishing a gorgeous IMB meteorite for another dealer. This meteorite takes a great polish, unlike the CR2 I am also preparing. I'll be busy polishing most of the night and my right-arm will be tired to the point of fatigue. I should have an incredible Hulk right arm by now. On the bright side of hand-polishing - I am learning to use my left hand/arm to good effect, once my right side tires out. LOL Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone - On 10/28/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Peter, Ed, Mike and List, I have spent a few days cutting and polishing dozens of various types with Adam Hupe'. With his guidance I set up my own shop with 6 and 8 saws and table and hand mounted polishing equipment. Basically, Adam uses quality diamond blades and arbor free polishing discs. Inspection cuts and slices are made with as fine a blade as will do the material in order to keep the kerf as thin as possible and reduce loss.. and at the same time eliminate the deep saw marks left by cheaper, thicker, blades. Polishing is accomplished with diamond impregnated discs both powered and in hand held blocks. He is a virtuoso with being able to turn our nice even, polished slices by hand. But, I never saw him dry cut or polish anything. He uses distilled water. This could be the secret, because when I used the same equipment dry, I couldn't get the same results until I added water for cooling and cleaning. The water also
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Hi Mike, Trade secrets to sanding? Maybe you mean just the experience of knowing each meteorites favorite way to be sanded. It's kind of silly not to use deionized water to wet sand the specimens that you've determined look better that way unless we're talking about a stone that's never slept outside over night, if you can dry them after quickly enough. I appreciate your perfectionism of not wanting to allow water to touch your meteorites, but stony meteorites are like sponges anyway and soak up water. Dew tends to form on them inside your house if you're not careful or outside and they are porous, and once out of the oven will always be picking up water - they absolutely don't stay dry. All of the desert specimens which have been in the desert got tens, hundreds and thoudands of years have the unstoppable phenomenon of terrestrialization; that is dew cycles more than half of the nights, each night, every day of every year. The desert is especially prone to dew on meteorites, even though it is so arid it is another of those conundrums - why so much dew in the desert? Simple ... the meteorite is cold as stone in the morning and that is the time everything is the desert has most likely settled down in terms of winds which are what would normally wisk away the humid air before it cooled enough to deposit its dew. The core of the meteorite continues cooling the immediate air around the meteorite (this is infrared heating/cooling) faster than the radiative heating of the Sun can warm, so the go dew-dew on the meteorites all the time. This is accentuated by passing through the dew point of the air almost always in the desert due to the extreme day/night temperature variation, remembering even the dryest desert in the world has a lot of water still in it. The result is drplets of water all over the meteorite which collect and rust below it sometime for a long time. People in some places supposedly in the Atacama in prehistoric times used to pile up rock just to collect the water in them. Stone castle walls can have the same effect. In China, desert farming is accomplished by scattering gravel on the ground to take advantage of this and no additional irrigation is necessary in some cases. If you really are making a business of this and find yourself evaluating a capital purchase of costly equipment or holding off for the time being - and as posted want diamond sandpaper without having to buy a motor and disk or ready to use laping machine, and to do it by hand, there is no reason that you can't put nearly an equal finish on it over glass while purchasing the same polishing grit for the final step and impregnating it on some sort of shammy that you can be sure is clean of prior hard particles, exactly as you have been doing, wet or dry whichever works best for the piece. Of course 3360 rpm of a 6 diameter wheel at the edge will be traveling exactly a mile a minute worth of arm strokes. Kindest wishes Dioug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 5:55 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?) Hi Count and List, You are fortunate to work with Adam firsthand and watch him work his magic. It's no secret in the collector world that the Hupes do some top-notch preparation work for all of their specimens. When I purchase a meteorite from Adam or Greg, I know I am getting some of the best preparation available, even if the specimen is a small micro. I wouldn't expect them to divulge their trade-secrets for preparation, but I was hoping for a couple of pointers on how to polish these hard to polish types. The responses I have received in public and private have been valuable and I am very thankful for the advice. It seems part of my problem is dry sanding and part is the fact that I don't have a lap-polisher. I guess I could do some wet-sanding, using distilled water, but I don't like introducing moisture into a specimen unless it is absolutely necessary. That is why the specimens I prepare are stable and free of oxidation. The only water my specimens see is during cutting (which is unavoidable) and then they go straight into a hot waiting oven for 6-10 hours to purge all remaining water. I use distilled water during cutting. Once the pieces are dry, I don't like getting them wet again. But, I will try some wet-sanding tonight and see how it goes. Does anyone know if/where I can purchase some diamond grit sandpaper for hand-sanding? I have been using the typical carbide sandpaper from the local hardware store - 100, 200, 320, 400, 600. I purchase higher grits online because they are hard to find locally without paying an arm and leg - 800, 1000, 1200, 1500. But I don't recall seeing any sandpaper with diamond-based grit. I'd like
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?)
Also if you plan on doing thin sections do NOT use oils or polishing compounds that are oil based. D_water = good! Jim Jim Wooddell https://k7wfr.us - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?) Hi Count and List, Distilled water is the best. It has no chlorine in it. Anyone cutting with tap water is introducing chlorine into their specimens and that will result in an unstable specimen and could possibly start a lawrencite disease reaction. A gallon of distilled water is less than one dollar, so I don't understand why people don't use it - unless they have a giant 16 slabbing saw which would be impractical to use distilled water. My 6-inch saw coolant tank only holds about one quart of water to the top, but I only fill it just enough to cover the bottom cutting edge of the blade. I pour more into the tank through the blade slot when needed. Anyone who uses tap water is asking for trouble later on - rusting, ugly, sick specimens and unhappy buyers. Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone - On 10/28/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hi Mike and List, Purchase the diamond polishing blocks online at: http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Tile-Tools/Polishing-Pads-Buffing-Compounds/Diamond-Hand-Pad-Polishing These are easier to use than the individual grit blocks and they are the same price. $100.00 I use a shallow plastic tray with a 1/2 inch, or so of distilled water and place the block in the bottom and move the meteorite by hand. Larger examples I hold on the bottom of the pan and move the block instead. Just enough water in the bottom to sluice off the block every few strokes. I find the argument that distilled water is bad for anything other than a pristine specimen undergoing scientific study unconvincing. I have had no incidents of accelerated deterioration, or rusting, with a specimen that has dried and stored properly. Just think how much water the stone has been subjected to in the hundreds to thousands of years prior to being found. (new falls excepted). Ambient high humidity locations subject your stones to water no matter what. I'm fortunate to live in the desert. Best regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 28, 2011 2:55 PM To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Cc: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard to Polish Meteorites - Any Ideas? (diamond grit sandpaper?) Hi Count and List, You are fortunate to work with Adam firsthand and watch him work his magic. It's no secret in the collector world that the Hupes do some top-notch preparation work for all of their specimens. When I purchase a meteorite from Adam or Greg, I know I am getting some of the best preparation available, even if the specimen is a small micro. I wouldn't expect them to divulge their trade-secrets for preparation, but I was hoping for a couple of pointers on how to polish these hard to polish types. The responses I have received in public and private have been valuable and I am very thankful for the advice. It seems part of my problem is dry sanding and part is the fact that I don't have a lap-polisher. I guess I could do some wet-sanding, using distilled water, but I don't like introducing moisture into a specimen unless it is absolutely necessary. That is why the specimens I prepare are stable and free of oxidation. The only water my specimens see is during cutting (which is unavoidable) and then they go straight into a hot waiting oven for 6-10 hours to purge all remaining water. I use distilled water during cutting. Once the pieces are dry, I don't like getting them wet again. But, I will try some wet-sanding tonight and see how it goes. Does anyone know if/where I can purchase some diamond grit sandpaper for hand-sanding? I have been using the typical carbide sandpaper from the local hardware store - 100, 200, 320, 400, 600. I purchase higher grits online because they are hard to find locally without paying an arm and leg - 800, 1000, 1200, 1500. But I don't recall seeing any sandpaper with diamond-based grit. I'd like to locate some if I can. Right now I am polishing a gorgeous IMB meteorite for another dealer. This meteorite takes a great polish, unlike the CR2 I am also preparing. I'll be busy
