Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
; Best wishes, >> Matt >> -------- >> Matt Morgan >> Mile High Meteorites >> http://www.mhmeteorites.com > >> P.O. Box 151293 >> Lakewood, CO 80215 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Richard Kowalski >> Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:22:14 >> To: >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price >> Guides >> >> --- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Richard >> > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't >> reiterate >> > my points again, but we have survived in this hobby >> for >> > several decades since the first large dealers began >> without >> > a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a >> place >> > for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time >> period? >> > There have been several attempts before Kevin, with >> no >> > success. Again the collecting market can determine >> the >> > need for a guide. >> >> Matt >> Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the >> reason could be that so few dealers and more importantly so >> few COLLECTORS existed during those times. Things are >> changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and >> love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing >> fresh faces and cash into the collector market. Many of >> these newbies will be looking for something to guide them on >> what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and price >> realized would be of historical interest as are the posts >> here of what long time collectors paid for material before I >> was a teenager, so lists of Nininger prices or Ward's. I >> guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside as you do >> but that's fine. >> >> >> > >> > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't >> use >> > auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items >> > for. To me a guide like that is not useful. >> REALIZED >> > prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data >> from >> > dealers. >> > >> > >> > Matt >> >> >> I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to >> get general prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that >> is the "Buy" price. What the material typically is purchase >> by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" price. Since this >> market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may >> not be willing to share too much information, but that >> shouldn't be a reason not to try (again). >> >> As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for >> appropriate material I certainly do do this. For instance, >> when I was buying Lunars for my collection, I plotted weight >> vs price per gram realized. Did you know a certain lunar can >> be had retail at ~$500 per gram in a certain size range all >> day long? At least it could be had for that when I was >> buying. I'm keeping that information to myself, so don't >> ask, but I know there are more like this out there. >> >> Like that esoteric coin segment I mentioned in my first >> post, there are amazing deals to be had for the collector. I >> think a guide might be a big help to the community, and >> especially for the newest members who have just gotten that >> spark. >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> Richard Kowalski >> Full Moon Photography >> IMCA #1081 >> >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
I know John. It's a curse. Matt, I guess I'm looking at things from a beginner collector point of view as it wasn't too long ago I that beginner. Not too far beyond that either, but I digress. I think that maybe the size of the task and the amount of time involved to keep it up to date might be daunting for one and unprofitable for more than one. Again. I'm not speaking about Kevin's guide. I am thinking about those coin guides. A new coin collector has to learn at least in the US about the various grades (as many as 70) for each and every coin type and design. In some respects meteorites are much easier to deal with. As you point out there is a lot of variability in pricing between individuals of the same meteorite. That certainly isn't an insurmountable challenge, either for the publisher or the collector using the guide. Good discussion Matt. Thank You. This is the what I like about the list. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > Hi Richard > I believe that price guides, at least with collectibles, > give a false sense of market value. Believe me I would > love to get 20/g out of my 350g Homestead, but because there > are so many factors that determine a meteorites value (maybe > many more factors than any collectible), I know that 20/g > will not be paid for such a piece by the small collector > pool that exists. Yet 20/g for Homestead, in small slices, > is attainable. Any guide would need to distinguish > pricing based on a number of factors that you already > pointed out. This would be nearly impossible for a > beginning collector to comprehend. > > Kevin's book on collecting meteorites is a great intro for > the beginning collector. A price guide would muddy the > waters IMO. Rely on your own searches to figure out pricing, > and as you know, the knowledge will come from that search. > > 500/g lunar? I have some. :) > > Best wishes, > Matt > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Kowalski > Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:22:14 > To: > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price > Guides > > --- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com > > wrote: > > > Hi Richard > > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't > reiterate > > my points again, but we have survived in this hobby > for > > several decades since the first large dealers began > without > > a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a > place > > for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time > period? > > There have been several attempts before Kevin, with > no > > success. Again the collecting market can determine > the > > need for a guide. > > Matt > Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the > reason could be that so few dealers and more importantly so > few COLLECTORS existed during those times. Things are > changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and > love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing > fresh faces and cash into the collector market. Many of > these newbies will be looking for something to guide them on > what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and price > realized would be of historical interest as are the posts > here of what long time collectors paid for material before I > was a teenager, so lists of Nininger prices or Ward's. I > guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside as you do > but that's fine. > > > > > > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't > use > > auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items > > for. To me a guide like that is not useful. > REALIZED > > prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data > from > > dealers. > > > > > > Matt > > > I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to > get general prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that > is the "Buy" price. What the material typically is purchase > by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" price. Since this > market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may > not be willing to share too much information, but that > shouldn't be a reason not to try (again). > > As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for > appropriate material I certainly do do this. For instance, > when I was buying Lunars for my collection, I plotted weight > vs price per gram realiz
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
Well, dang, Richard ... here you go bringing reason and logic into the mix. Just think where we would be if we all did that ... order would reign! We CAN'T have that, can we? Tongue firmly in my cheek, John, in Knoxville -Original Message- >From: Richard Kowalski >Sent: Feb 25, 2011 3:22 PM >To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides > >--- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > >> Hi Richard >> Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate >> my points again, but we have survived in this hobby for >> several decades since the first large dealers began without >> a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place >> for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? >> There have been several attempts before Kevin, with no >> success. Again the collecting market can determine the >> need for a guide. > >Matt >Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the reason could be that >so few dealers and more importantly so few COLLECTORS existed during those >times. Things are changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and >love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing fresh faces and >cash into the collector market. Many of these newbies will be looking for >something to guide them on what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and >price realized would be of historical interest as are the posts here of what >long time collectors paid for material before I was a teenager, so lists of >Nininger prices or Ward's. I guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside >as you do but that's fine. > > >> >> Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use >> auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items >> for. To me a guide like that is not useful. REALIZED >> prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from >> dealers. >> >> >> Matt > > >I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to get general >prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that is the "Buy" price. What the >material typically is purchase by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" >price. Since this market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may >not be willing to share too much information, but that shouldn't be a reason >not to try (again). > >As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for appropriate material I >certainly do do this. For instance, when I was buying Lunars for my >collection, I plotted weight vs price per gram realized. Did you know a >certain lunar can be had retail at ~$500 per gram in a certain size range all >day long? At least it could be had for that when I was buying. I'm keeping >that information to myself, so don't ask, but I know there are more like this >out there. > >Like that esoteric coin segment I mentioned in my first post, there are >amazing deals to be had for the collector. I think a guide might be a big help >to the community, and especially for the newest members who have just gotten >that spark. > >Cheers > >-- >Richard Kowalski >Full Moon Photography >IMCA #1081 > > > >__ >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
Hi Richard I believe that price guides, at least with collectibles, give a false sense of market value. Believe me I would love to get 20/g out of my 350g Homestead, but because there are so many factors that determine a meteorites value (maybe many more factors than any collectible), I know that 20/g will not be paid for such a piece by the small collector pool that exists. Yet 20/g for Homestead, in small slices, is attainable. Any guide would need to distinguish pricing based on a number of factors that you already pointed out. This would be nearly impossible for a beginning collector to comprehend. Kevin's book on collecting meteorites is a great intro for the beginning collector. A price guide would muddy the waters IMO. Rely on your own searches to figure out pricing, and as you know, the knowledge will come from that search. 500/g lunar? I have some. :) Best wishes, Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:22:14 To: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides --- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > Hi Richard > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate > my points again, but we have survived in this hobby for > several decades since the first large dealers began without > a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place > for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? > There have been several attempts before Kevin, with no > success. Again the collecting market can determine the > need for a guide. Matt Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the reason could be that so few dealers and more importantly so few COLLECTORS existed during those times. Things are changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing fresh faces and cash into the collector market. Many of these newbies will be looking for something to guide them on what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and price realized would be of historical interest as are the posts here of what long time collectors paid for material before I was a teenager, so lists of Nininger prices or Ward's. I guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside as you do but that's fine. > > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use > auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items > for. To me a guide like that is not useful. REALIZED > prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from > dealers. > > > Matt I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to get general prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that is the "Buy" price. What the material typically is purchase by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" price. Since this market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may not be willing to share too much information, but that shouldn't be a reason not to try (again). As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for appropriate material I certainly do do this. For instance, when I was buying Lunars for my collection, I plotted weight vs price per gram realized. Did you know a certain lunar can be had retail at ~$500 per gram in a certain size range all day long? At least it could be had for that when I was buying. I'm keeping that information to myself, so don't ask, but I know there are more like this out there. Like that esoteric coin segment I mentioned in my first post, there are amazing deals to be had for the collector. I think a guide might be a big help to the community, and especially for the newest members who have just gotten that spark. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > Hi Richard > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate > my points again, but we have survived in this hobby for > several decades since the first large dealers began without > a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place > for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? > There have been several attempts before Kevin, with no > success. Again the collecting market can determine the > need for a guide. Matt Something I can't answer. I could guess that part of the reason could be that so few dealers and more importantly so few COLLECTORS existed during those times. Things are changing a bit. We all know about the popular TV show and love or hate the hosts, there is no doubt they are bringing fresh faces and cash into the collector market. Many of these newbies will be looking for something to guide them on what to pay. A historic volume, say every lot and price realized would be of historical interest as are the posts here of what long time collectors paid for material before I was a teenager, so lists of Nininger prices or Ward's. I guess I don't see anywhere near as much downside as you do but that's fine. > > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use > auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items > for. To me a guide like that is not useful. REALIZED > prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from > dealers. > > > Matt I'm in agreement with you here. Anyone can surf websites to get general prices. In coin terms and maybe elsewhere that is the "Buy" price. What the material typically is purchase by a dealer from a collector is the "Bid" price. Since this market is so thin, I tend to agree with you that dealers may not be willing to share too much information, but that shouldn't be a reason not to try (again). As for your suggestion about doing my own pricing, for appropriate material I certainly do do this. For instance, when I was buying Lunars for my collection, I plotted weight vs price per gram realized. Did you know a certain lunar can be had retail at ~$500 per gram in a certain size range all day long? At least it could be had for that when I was buying. I'm keeping that information to myself, so don't ask, but I know there are more like this out there. Like that esoteric coin segment I mentioned in my first post, there are amazing deals to be had for the collector. I think a guide might be a big help to the community, and especially for the newest members who have just gotten that spark. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
Hi List...(I'm the other Richard...but not from Chicago.) One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is that collecting meteorites, TKWs, rarity, figuring their associated values, the size of the collector base, etc...is not a static model. Of course all of this changes over time (as Steve pointed out), and those that collect bricks will attest. Kevin's price guide may be a valueable tool to watch over time, as will watching auction results over time. Again, not a static model. Watching changing auction results, also not a static model. I initially commented on this thread to point out that miss-information potentially being maliciously represented by an over-ambitious media could inflame (and has in one case) a landowner, all of whom should be held in high respect; [it could do the same if a malicious someone did a story on (e.g.) "the over-stated value of TFL meteorites, but doesn't rule out blood-vessel fossils in the new North American lunars, etc." and in the unknowing public's reaction, completely damage the validity of complete and proper classifications...] In the case of Michael's auction, it was all above-board (both on the net) and open to anyone to attend; with that said, merely asking for results off-list is a simple solution for anyone. It might even be a measure of interest; this, of course, is another reason to cite the non-static model. -Richard (Rick) Montgomery Goldierocks From: To: "Richard Kowalski" ; ; Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides Hi Richard Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate my points again, but we have survived in this hobby for several decades since the first large dealers began without a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? There have been several attempts before Kevin, with no success. Again the collecting market can determine the need for a guide. Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items for. To me a guide like that is not useful. REALIZED prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from dealers. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:20:02 To: Subject: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides Sorry for making another subject change on this Kevin & Matt. I have to argue directly against you one this one Matt. Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the meteorite market. While I do not have Kevin's price guide, I certainly think it is something useful. Auction results are a very important tool too. Nearly everyone on this list who spoke up not too long ago when asked about interests other than meteorites said they collect some thing or other. Many of these collectors collected coins and notes, numisma. Since this is the first collecting bug tat bit me too, I'll discuss this market in those terms. Coins, tokens, notes, etc is a huge market, but value is assigned by the numerous points already raised and more, but are always dictated by supply and demand. Many relatively common coins are very valuable because so many collectors desire them while vast areas of numismatics, which are rather esoteric, may only have a few hundred of even just one or a few collectors worldwide. That is a type of market the we find ourselves in. I've had a number of you with customer lists privately estimate for me the worldwide number of active meteorite collectors and the consensus seems to be well under 1000. Many estimate the number to be around 500. Double or maybe triple that and you have the total number of active and sporadic collectors. Adam Hupe often points out how rare meteorites are and that is very true. The flip side of that is the meteorite collector base is minuscule. Just in those small areas of numismatics many insanely rare, beautiful and interesting items go for pennies. The money collector community and market is literally thousands of years old and has a huge worldwide collector base. There are price guides to be found that include highly esoteric topics with no concern about new collectors being confused by retail versus wholesale. The pricing methodology is outlined and the collector is urged to learn as much as they can about the material and pricing. Same as meteorites no? When I started seriously collecting meteorites a few years ago, I already had some information about meteorites and vast experience as a c
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
> Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in > any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the > meteorite market. I completely agree with this sentiment. How is it that a guide (with appropriate caveats included) cannot be of benefit to the collector/buyer? If only to reveal the relative differences in valuation between different meteorites. Conceptually, I love the word "guide" and all that it implies, and I think it's a laudable exercise. On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:32 AM, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > Hi Richard > Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate my points again, but we > have survived in this hobby for several decades since the first large dealers > began without a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place for > a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? There have been > several attempts before Kevin, with no success. Again the collecting market > can determine the need for a guide. > > Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use auctions ad doesn't > know what the dealers SOLD items for. To me a guide like that is not useful. > REALIZED prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from dealers. > > > Matt > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Kowalski > Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:20:02 > To: > Subject: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides > > Sorry for making another subject change on this Kevin & Matt. > > I have to argue directly against you one this one Matt. > > Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in > any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the > meteorite market. > > While I do not have Kevin's price guide, I certainly think it is something > useful. Auction results are a very important tool too. > > Nearly everyone on this list who spoke up not too long ago when asked about > interests other than meteorites said they collect some thing or other. Many > of these collectors collected coins and notes, numisma. Since this is the > first collecting bug tat bit me too, I'll discuss this market in those terms. > > Coins, tokens, notes, etc is a huge market, but value is assigned by the > numerous points already raised and more, but are always dictated by supply > and demand. Many relatively common coins are very valuable because so many > collectors desire them while vast areas of numismatics, which are rather > esoteric, may only have a few hundred of even just one or a few collectors > worldwide. That is a type of market the we find ourselves in. > > I've had a number of you with customer lists privately estimate for me the > worldwide number of active meteorite collectors and the consensus seems to be > well under 1000. Many estimate the number to be around 500. Double or maybe > triple that and you have the total number of active and sporadic collectors. > Adam Hupe often points out how rare meteorites are and that is very true. The > flip side of that is the meteorite collector base is minuscule. Just in those > small areas of numismatics many insanely rare, beautiful and interesting > items go for pennies. > > The money collector community and market is literally thousands of years old > and has a huge worldwide collector base. There are price guides to be found > that include highly esoteric topics with no concern about new collectors > being confused by retail versus wholesale. The pricing methodology is > outlined and the collector is urged to learn as much as they can about the > material and pricing. Same as meteorites no? > > When I started seriously collecting meteorites a few years ago, I already had > some information about meteorites and vast experience as a collector, so the > first order of things for me was 1, determine which direction I wanted my > collecting to go. 2, determine which dealers were trustworthy and 3, how much > do I pay? 1 & 2 were easy but #3 was more difficult. I wish I knew of Kevin's > guide back then. It would have saved me some time and effort. > > For me I'd like to see a few more guides, not less. I bet Michael could turn > a very nice profit if he sold PDF books of all the auction lots and prices > realized from this year and at all of his previous auctions too. I know I'd > buy a copy. > > Cheers > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Full Moon Photography &
Re: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
Hi Richard Seems we just completely disagree. I won't reiterate my points again, but we have survived in this hobby for several decades since the first large dealers began without a price guide and survived quite well. If there is a place for a guide then why hasn't one stuck over that time period? There have been several attempts before Kevin, with no success. Again the collecting market can determine the need for a guide. Why not do your own pricing? Kevin admits he doesn't use auctions ad doesn't know what the dealers SOLD items for. To me a guide like that is not useful. REALIZED prices may be ok, but good luck getting those data from dealers. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:20:02 To: Subject: [meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides Sorry for making another subject change on this Kevin & Matt. I have to argue directly against you one this one Matt. Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the meteorite market. While I do not have Kevin's price guide, I certainly think it is something useful. Auction results are a very important tool too. Nearly everyone on this list who spoke up not too long ago when asked about interests other than meteorites said they collect some thing or other. Many of these collectors collected coins and notes, numisma. Since this is the first collecting bug tat bit me too, I'll discuss this market in those terms. Coins, tokens, notes, etc is a huge market, but value is assigned by the numerous points already raised and more, but are always dictated by supply and demand. Many relatively common coins are very valuable because so many collectors desire them while vast areas of numismatics, which are rather esoteric, may only have a few hundred of even just one or a few collectors worldwide. That is a type of market the we find ourselves in. I've had a number of you with customer lists privately estimate for me the worldwide number of active meteorite collectors and the consensus seems to be well under 1000. Many estimate the number to be around 500. Double or maybe triple that and you have the total number of active and sporadic collectors. Adam Hupe often points out how rare meteorites are and that is very true. The flip side of that is the meteorite collector base is minuscule. Just in those small areas of numismatics many insanely rare, beautiful and interesting items go for pennies. The money collector community and market is literally thousands of years old and has a huge worldwide collector base. There are price guides to be found that include highly esoteric topics with no concern about new collectors being confused by retail versus wholesale. The pricing methodology is outlined and the collector is urged to learn as much as they can about the material and pricing. Same as meteorites no? When I started seriously collecting meteorites a few years ago, I already had some information about meteorites and vast experience as a collector, so the first order of things for me was 1, determine which direction I wanted my collecting to go. 2, determine which dealers were trustworthy and 3, how much do I pay? 1 & 2 were easy but #3 was more difficult. I wish I knew of Kevin's guide back then. It would have saved me some time and effort. For me I'd like to see a few more guides, not less. I bet Michael could turn a very nice profit if he sold PDF books of all the auction lots and prices realized from this year and at all of his previous auctions too. I know I'd buy a copy. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 2/24/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > From: m...@mhmeteorites.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Auction #1 > To: "Kevin Kichinka" , > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com, > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 8:01 PM > Hi Kevin and list: > Kevin, while I appreciate what you are doing and applaud > you for putting together a detailed and extensive list, I > will just say that I think any price guides in any field are > problematic. All collectibles are worth only what one > is willing to pay. Coinage may be a different > situation since there is underlying value in the metal > commodity and there are fairly accurate mintage numbers. > > A good example are home values. An owner can ask 500k > for their home but only realize 300k in today's > "market". Zillow.com is a great example of how a > "price guide" should work; they show the recently so
[meteorite-list] Retail & Auction Price Guides
Sorry for making another subject change on this Kevin & Matt. I have to argue directly against you one this one Matt. Retail price guides and auction results have a very real and useful place in any collectibles market, especially for a market as small and thin as the meteorite market. While I do not have Kevin's price guide, I certainly think it is something useful. Auction results are a very important tool too. Nearly everyone on this list who spoke up not too long ago when asked about interests other than meteorites said they collect some thing or other. Many of these collectors collected coins and notes, numisma. Since this is the first collecting bug tat bit me too, I'll discuss this market in those terms. Coins, tokens, notes, etc is a huge market, but value is assigned by the numerous points already raised and more, but are always dictated by supply and demand. Many relatively common coins are very valuable because so many collectors desire them while vast areas of numismatics, which are rather esoteric, may only have a few hundred of even just one or a few collectors worldwide. That is a type of market the we find ourselves in. I've had a number of you with customer lists privately estimate for me the worldwide number of active meteorite collectors and the consensus seems to be well under 1000. Many estimate the number to be around 500. Double or maybe triple that and you have the total number of active and sporadic collectors. Adam Hupe often points out how rare meteorites are and that is very true. The flip side of that is the meteorite collector base is minuscule. Just in those small areas of numismatics many insanely rare, beautiful and interesting items go for pennies. The money collector community and market is literally thousands of years old and has a huge worldwide collector base. There are price guides to be found that include highly esoteric topics with no concern about new collectors being confused by retail versus wholesale. The pricing methodology is outlined and the collector is urged to learn as much as they can about the material and pricing. Same as meteorites no? When I started seriously collecting meteorites a few years ago, I already had some information about meteorites and vast experience as a collector, so the first order of things for me was 1, determine which direction I wanted my collecting to go. 2, determine which dealers were trustworthy and 3, how much do I pay? 1 & 2 were easy but #3 was more difficult. I wish I knew of Kevin's guide back then. It would have saved me some time and effort. For me I'd like to see a few more guides, not less. I bet Michael could turn a very nice profit if he sold PDF books of all the auction lots and prices realized from this year and at all of his previous auctions too. I know I'd buy a copy. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 2/24/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: > From: m...@mhmeteorites.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Auction #1 > To: "Kevin Kichinka" , > meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com, > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 8:01 PM > Hi Kevin and list: > Kevin, while I appreciate what you are doing and applaud > you for putting together a detailed and extensive list, I > will just say that I think any price guides in any field are > problematic. All collectibles are worth only what one > is willing to pay. Coinage may be a different > situation since there is underlying value in the metal > commodity and there are fairly accurate mintage numbers. > > A good example are home values. An owner can ask 500k > for their home but only realize 300k in today's > "market". Zillow.com is a great example of how a > "price guide" should work; they show the recently sold price > not asking prices (as you do in your guide). If one > were to use asking prices the housing market would be > artificially higher than what is realized in the market. > > I also think that price guides give collectors a false > sense of hope when it comes to selling their > collections. For example, a dealer should be paying > them $10/g for Estherville (according to a price from your > list) when in fact I wouldn't pay more than $6/g, which is > perceived as "ripping" the collector off. This creates a > feeling of animosity for the collector and may result in > them not collecting any longer. > > With meteorites or any other collectible for that matter, a > dealer (or any person with the item) can ask whatever he or > she wishes to ask. The consumer is best served by > doing their own market analysis. As you pointed out there > are dozens of different reasons for assigning a value to a > meteorite, many of which are subjective (appearance, > freshness, orientation, etc.). Even the TKW is misleading if > one uses the MetBull as the standard for that. Who > says that Allende is "worth" 10/g? The consumer does. Not >
