Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Hi List, Ok, let's stop mincing words about Mars. Everyone knows the Martian civilization was destroyed by the first padishah emperor over 30,000 years ago during the Butlerian Jihad. The surface was sterilized using orbital atomics from the imperial fleet. There are no traces of life left on the surface and no signs that it ever existed, as per the emperor's decree. Rumor has it, there is a sealed chamber located somewhere on the planet that contains a cenotaph and records from the period. Finding it would be like locating the proverbial needle in a haystack. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 3/15/13, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
MikeG, No, it was the Lemurians that did it. They migrated to Mars after losing an epic battle with the Atlanteans. They established a civilization there for 20,000 years. Then, in the Great Civil War, one side released a horde of omniverous self-replicating nano bots. The bots picked the planet clean. Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Hi List, Ok, let's stop mincing words about Mars. Everyone knows the Martian civilization was destroyed by the first padishah emperor over 30,000 years ago during the Butlerian Jihad. The surface was sterilized using orbital atomics from the imperial fleet. There are no traces of life left on the surface and no signs that it ever existed, as per the emperor's decree. Rumor has it, there is a sealed chamber located somewhere on the planet that contains a cenotaph and records from the period. Finding it would be like locating the proverbial needle in a haystack. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 3/15/13, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Metaphysics, Philosophy? Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
I love fishing. You never know what you'll catch, but you can target pretty well. - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Metaphysics, Philosophy? Phil Whitmer - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List, ...our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! I knew what you were talking about wasn't science. Now, I know what it is. WillyWonkaism Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Dear List, Mark and Phil, Phil has saidIt's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. Really! If it is becoming painfully obvious that Mars has always been lifeless, then what in the hell are we doing spending billions of taxpayer bucks to prove...and notice I said prove...that there was/is life, as we scientifically think of it, on our red neighbor. According to your premise, spending a significant amount of our own, and our partner nation's, science capital constructing and delivering Curiosity to look precisely for confirming evidence...notice I said confirming...is folly. What have you found out that apparently thousands of the world's scientists aren't aware of? The Curiosity mission is not one of discovery...it is one of confirmation... and I think it will only take a few million seconds before we know, as you put it. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Mar 15, 2013 11:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small chance there may still be a few microbes hanging on deep underground near the equator, Nothing wrong with looking and we should, but at some point in the near future we should probably give up and start face to reality, and think about sending some resources elsewhere - where frankly the chances are a looking little bit higher, e.g Europa. Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: 14 March 2013 19:04 To: Sterling K. Webb; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff Sterling, Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth), any life remaining on Mars will likely be found there. Michael in so. Cal. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Sent: Mar 15, 2013 3:05 PM To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Sterling, Nobody knows what life is, plain and simple. The wisest, most wizened theologians and the brightest scientists in the latest techno-labs don't have a clue. Nobody knows what the ghost in the machine is. Or how it arose from matter. What I said was life seems to arisen by chance on our planet, and therefore it could possibly happen again elsewhere. You said: Is our planet special? Yes, our planet is incredibly special, it's the most perfect goldylocksy place ever! Yes, 2500 yrs ago all they had were atoms. Nowadays we have quantum particles and a stringy, vibrating web of particle waves that can be two places at once. Matter may not be solid after all. An entirely new parallel universe may be created ever time we make a decision. There may be near infinite copies of each and every one of us. Physics is turning into metaphysics. Materialism as we know it may be fading away. There might be massless forces lacking a Boson that we know nothing about. (The Force.) Particles may have a simple consciousness. For all we know meteorites may be intentionally aiming for the Sahara's soft sands. (Comic relief and steering the thread back the physical world of meteorites.) Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Phil, List You said: Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionism, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. That is EXACTLY how science defines life. All science is materialist, reductionism, and physicalist. If you believe something else, then whatever that thing is, it is NOT science. Yet: I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probability... So, life can't arise by chance on OUR planet but it CAN on some other planet. Would you explain the logic of that to me? Or is our planet special? 2500 years of having the structure (and eventually the workings) of matter explained by Leucippus, Democritus, Epicurus, through Galileo, to Dalton, Bohr, Heisenberg, Einstein, and hundreds of others, and you still don't get it. I'll give you a 2500-year-old quote that you can repeat quietly to yourself until you DO get it: There are atoms and the void and nothing else. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Mark, I agree. It's becoming painfully obvious Mars has always been lifeless. If it didn't happen there, where conditions were similar to Earth, with all the right ingredients and parameters, then I wouldn't hold my breath while looking for life in the rest of the Solar System. Abiogenisis is an extremely rare thing, maybe even a singularity. Science cannot define life using current materialist, reductionist, physicalist methods. They think life, along with consciousness and intelligence are just chance random byproducts of chance random arrangements of organic molecules. Trying to understand life by studying the physical properties of the building blocks, where they came from, whether or not the early Earth had a reducing atmosphere, etc., etc, is like trying to explain a Van Gogh by microprobing his paints. I'm not ruling out life elsewhere in the Universe, because according to the laws of probablility, if something happened once, no matter how weird, bizarre and unexplainable it was, there's a chance it will happen again. We'll know more in a million years. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum Look deep underground (tough to do from Earth) - That's fine if your looking for Earth style microbes, but until we even formally define life (and not just some grey area about self reproducing molecules) would we know 'it' if we saw it? Seems to me if you chart the historical progress of the hunt for life on Mars it's getting a bit thin and desperate, in 100 years we have gone from theories of there being colonies of Martians with canals or forests to a small
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
And that is why we collect meteorites, 'cause they're heavy! Fred H. Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff
Now that's funny, Sterling. And you is always so serious :0) Guido -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Mar 15, 2013 6:12 PM To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net, Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff Every time I hear that word, I feel... I dunno, kinda heavy. Sterling - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Dori Fry dori...@embarqmail.com; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Don't Find Any Exobiology Stuff The word today students is Boson now, back to your books. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
