subject:"Re\: \[meteorite\-list\] Dam Hammer"


Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would qualify as a 
hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits roads (dirt or paved), crop 
field (man made), etc. I personally think this whole hammer qualification 
has gotten out of hand.


On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a 'dam(n)' nice job 
finding some!!


Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




- Original Message - 
From: meteorh...@aol.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer



Hey Guys,

A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who found one of those dam
hammer stones!

Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock pond near West.   And 
not

only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as well.

6.1  grams.

Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/

Steve  Arnold
Arkansas

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Steve,
There is always someone to try and rain on your parade!
I did not realize earthen Dams were not man made? I thought it was CLEAR that
if it hits anything man made it is indeed a hammer? Where is Blood here?

Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it one you purchased? Is it the main
mass?
Congrats either way. You are still the king.

Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax

Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:
Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would qualify as a
hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits roads (dirt or paved), crop
field (man made), etc. I personally think this whole hammer qualification
has gotten out of hand.

On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a 'dam(n)' nice job
finding some!!

Best regards,
Greg

Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

- Original Message -
From: meteorh...@aol.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Hey Guys,

A special congrats goes out to my wife Qynne who found one of those dam
hammer stones!

Literally, the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock pond near West. And
not
only that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as well.

6.1 grams.

Photos here: http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/

Steve Arnold
Arkansas

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:39:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
gmh...@htn.net writes:
Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite  hitting an earthen dam would qualify as a 
hammer. Think of all of the  stones that hits roads (dirt or paved), crop 
field (man made), etc. I  personally think this whole hammer qualification 
has gotten out of  hand.

On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a 'dam(n)'  nice job 
finding some!!

Best regards,
Greg
.
 

Hey Greg,

You might be right on the hammer qualification, or  over-qualification as 
it may be.   Dam it though, it is still a cute  rock! 

I just couldn't resist on the double entendre calling it a  Dam Hammer.

btw, Qynne says Thanks for the congrats.

Steve
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Farmer


Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a hammer. 
We also found  more than one stone on earthen dams, not of interest to me as 
you could not throw a rock out there without hitting a pond. 
Stones were also found in driveways and roadsides, those are not hammers. 
This is out of hand, and collectors are going to get pissed off at trying to 
pawn every stone off as a hammer piece. 
You won't see me offering these types of stones, if it hits a house, car, 
mailbox, child, etc then we can talk about hammer stone. A parking lot or 
driveway is just a dirt scrape on the ground, it is still the ground.

I will update my West totals today, as I have been gone a month, I have too 
many emails and bills to deal with but be patiant, I am trying to get up to 
speed.
Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

 From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 11:31 AM
 Hey Guys,
 
 A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who
 found one of those dam 
 hammer stones!  
 
 Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock
 pond near West.   And not 
 only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as
 well. 
 
 6.1  grams.
 
 Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
 
 Steve  Arnold
 Arkansas  
 
 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
 $479 
 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Steve,

I've already been shot down on this one. My cemetery stone, which as you know 
cause you were there, was literally found on a grave mound and it didn't 
qualify as a hammer. So I don't think too many here will accept your wife's 
stone as a hammer. However, if they do I'm pretty sure we could sell them for 
50% more!!

p.s. Maybe I should call mine the Head Stone since yours is the Dam Hammer 


Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v


--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:

 From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorh...@aol.com
 Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
 Respectfully Steve,
 
 I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would
 qualify as a hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits
 roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man made), etc. I
 personally think this whole hammer qualification has gotten
 out of hand.
 
 On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a
 'dam(n)' nice job finding some!!
 
 Best regards,
 Greg
 
 
 Greg Hupe
 The Hupe Collection
 NaturesVault (eBay)
 gmh...@htn.net
 www.LunarRock.com
 IMCA 3163
 
 Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
 
 
 
 - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 
 
  Hey Guys,
  
  A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who
 found one of those dam
  hammer stones!
  
  Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a
 stock pond near West.   And not
  only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented
 specimen as well.
  
  6.1  grams.
  
  Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
  
  Steve  Arnold
  Arkansas
  
  **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops -
 Starting at $479
  (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
  leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Thanks Carl.

None of the 69 meteorites I recovered were  purchased.  All were found. 

I will go into more details about the  1,673g find a little later.

I am not sure if it is the Main Mass, as I am  not sure the exact weights of 
others that have been found. 
 
By the way, it WAS raining the day Qynne found the Dam Stone, although I  
don't think Greg had anything to do with the precipitation.

Steve  Arnold




In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:45:20 P.M. Central  Daylight Time, 
cdtuc...@cox.net writes:
Steve,
There is always someone to  try and rain on your parade!
I did not realize earthen Dams were not man  made? I thought it was CLEAR 
that if it hits anything man made it is indeed a  hammer? Where is Blood here? 

Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it  one you purchased?  Is it the 
main mass? 
Congrats either way. You are  still the king. 

Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax
 
**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

I thought a damn is a man made structure? A bridge is more than a road as well? 
Not just a road but a structure. A road becomes a structure when it is a 
bridge.  STRUCTURE seems to be the key word here. Carl

 Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 
 Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a hammer. 
 We also found  more than one stone on earthen dams, not of interest to me as 
 you could not throw a rock out there without hitting a pond. 
 Stones were also found in driveways and roadsides, those are not hammers. 
 This is out of hand, and collectors are going to get pissed off at trying to 
 pawn every stone off as a hammer piece. 
 You won't see me offering these types of stones, if it hits a house, car, 
 mailbox, child, etc then we can talk about hammer stone. A parking lot or 
 driveway is just a dirt scrape on the ground, it is still the ground.
 
 I will update my West totals today, as I have been gone a month, I have too 
 many emails and bills to deal with but be patiant, I am trying to get up to 
 speed.
 Michael Farmer
 
 --- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:
 
  From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 11:31 AM
  Hey Guys,
  
  A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who
  found one of those dam 
  hammer stones!  
  
  Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock
  pond near West.   And not 
  only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as
  well. 
  
  6.1  grams.
  
  Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
  
  Steve  Arnold
  Arkansas  
  
  **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
  $479 
  (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
  leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Hello Carl,

Not raining on anyone's parade. I didn't say an earthen dam was not man 
made. I think qualifying such meteorite strikes as hammers is ridiculous!! 
Michael Blood has an opinion, not a rule. If a meteorite lands in my yard or 
a baseball field does it qualify as a hammer since these places were man 
made? Over use of a term for marketing (not saying Steve had done this here) 
is simply stupid!


If you want a true hammer stone, check out the Garza Stone from Park Forest, 
along with other true house (structure) smashers, hitters, hammers, 
whatever... (March 23rd will be six years old for that fall!).


My opinion!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




- Original Message - 
From: cdtuc...@cox.net

To: meteorh...@aol.com; Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer



Steve,
There is always someone to try and rain on your parade!
I did not realize earthen Dams were not man made? I thought it was CLEAR 
that if it hits anything man made it is indeed a hammer? Where is Blood 
here?


Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it one you purchased?  Is it the 
main mass?

Congrats either way. You are still the king.

Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax

 Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:

Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would qualify as a
hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits roads (dirt or paved), 
crop

field (man made), etc. I personally think this whole hammer qualification
has gotten out of hand.

On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a 'dam(n)' nice job
finding some!!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



- Original Message - 
From: meteorh...@aol.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


 Hey Guys,

 A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who found one of those 
 dam

 hammer stones!

 Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock pond near West. 
 And

 not
 only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as well.

 6.1  grams.

 Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/

 Steve  Arnold
 Arkansas

 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Again Where is Michael blood. A head stone is clearly a man made structure at 
least as much as a mail box is. Actually you can not reside  in a mail box but 
you can reside in a grave. So, if a mailbox qualifies then certainly a final 
resting place applies. Carl

 Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com wrote: 
 
 Steve,
 
 I've already been shot down on this one. My cemetery stone, which as you 
 know cause you were there, was literally found on a grave mound and it didn't 
 qualify as a hammer. So I don't think too many here will accept your wife's 
 stone as a hammer. However, if they do I'm pretty sure we could sell them for 
 50% more!!
 
 p.s. Maybe I should call mine the Head Stone since yours is the Dam 
 Hammer 
 
 
 Ruben Garcia
 Phoenix, Arizona
 Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
 Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
 Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v
 
 
 --- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:
 
  From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
  To: meteorh...@aol.com
  Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
  Respectfully Steve,
  
  I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would
  qualify as a hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits
  roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man made), etc. I
  personally think this whole hammer qualification has gotten
  out of hand.
  
  On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a
  'dam(n)' nice job finding some!!
  
  Best regards,
  Greg
  
  
  Greg Hupe
  The Hupe Collection
  NaturesVault (eBay)
  gmh...@htn.net
  www.LunarRock.com
  IMCA 3163
  
  Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
  http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
  
  
  
  - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
  
  
   Hey Guys,
   
   A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who
  found one of those dam
   hammer stones!
   
   Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a
  stock pond near West.   And not
   only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented
  specimen as well.
   
   6.1  grams.
   
   Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
   
   Steve  Arnold
   Arkansas
   
   **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops -
  Starting at $479
   (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
   leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
meteorite...@yahoo.com writes:

Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a hammer.  

.

Mike and all,

While I will leave the interpretation of  hammer up to the beholder, the 
post was indeed more of a joke, or double  entendre .  But it did hit the dam.  
And my congrats going out to my  wife was not a joke, that was sincere. 

I am NOT asking a premium on this  rock above any of the others I am selling, 
just because it hit the dam.   

Although since it was found AFTER the heavy rains, I am actually  discounting 
it below what I would be selling it for if it was picked up earlier,  as I am 
with all the Post-rain recovery specimens.  

Steve
 
**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread greg stanley



All:

Doesn’t a ‘Hammer’ have to do damage to anything living (person, dog or animal) 
or any made-made object?  If a meteorite hit a tree and scraped off some of the 
bark – would that be a hammer?  However, if a large meteorite struck a sidewalk 
and chipped (damaged) it, then that may be considered a hammer.

Thanks,

Greg Stanley

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:

From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
To: meteorh...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM

Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would qualify as a hammer. 
Think of all of the stones that hits roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man 
made), etc. I personally think this whole hammer qualification has gotten out 
of hand.

On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a 'dam(n)' nice job 
finding some!!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



- Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


 Hey Guys,
 
 A special congrats goes out to  my wife Qynne who found one of those dam
 hammer stones!
 
 Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of a stock pond near West.   And not
 only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented specimen as well.
 
 6.1  grams.
 
 Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
 
 Steve  Arnold
 Arkansas
 
 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Carl,

Ruben wrote, ...was literally found on a grave mound  I think he 
clearly stated that, so where do you get the idea a stone hit the head 
stone?


I think if said stone landed in the toilet of a boat, than you could call 
that a Head Stone! That, or if it hit someone in the head. Maybe even a 
Mellon Masher for the same stone.


Any more of these exchanges and we may need to rewind the clock back and 
re-celebrate St. Patrick's Day again, yes you got it, to get 'hammered'! ;-)


Greg



- Original Message - 
From: cdtuc...@cox.net

To: Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com; Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Again Where is Michael blood. A head stone is clearly a man made structure 
at least as much as a mail box is. Actually you can not reside  in a mail 
box but you can reside in a grave. So, if a mailbox qualifies then certainly 
a final resting place applies. Carl


 Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com wrote:


Steve,

I've already been shot down on this one. My cemetery stone, which as you 
know cause you were there, was literally found on a grave mound and it 
didn't qualify as a hammer. So I don't think too many here will accept 
your wife's stone as a hammer. However, if they do I'm pretty sure we 
could sell them for 50% more!!


p.s. Maybe I should call mine the Head Stone since yours is the Dam 
Hammer



Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v


--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:

 From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorh...@aol.com
 Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
 Respectfully Steve,

 I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would
 qualify as a hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits
 roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man made), etc. I
 personally think this whole hammer qualification has gotten
 out of hand.

 On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a
 'dam(n)' nice job finding some!!

 Best regards,
 Greg

 
 Greg Hupe
 The Hupe Collection
 NaturesVault (eBay)
 gmh...@htn.net
 www.LunarRock.com
 IMCA 3163
 
 Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




 - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


  Hey Guys,
 
  A special congrats goes out to my wife Qynne who
 found one of those dam
  hammer stones!
 
  Literally, the rock hit an earthen dam of a
 stock pond near West. And not
  only that, it is a 100% crusted oriented
 specimen as well.
 
  6.1 grams.
 
  Photos here: http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/
 
  Steve Arnold
  Arkansas
 
  **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops -
 Starting at $479
  
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
  leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Again,
Where is Michael? A mound is a structure specifically designed to function as
such. And Steve, I would like to buy the Dam hammer as I think Blood will rule
in it's favor. How much? Carl

Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:
Carl,

Ruben wrote, ...was literally found on a grave mound I think he
clearly stated that, so where do you get the idea a stone hit the head
stone?

I think if said stone landed in the toilet of a boat, than you could call
that a Head Stone! That, or if it hit someone in the head. Maybe even a
Mellon Masher for the same stone.

Any more of these exchanges and we may need to rewind the clock back and
re-celebrate St. Patrick's Day again, yes you got it, to get 'hammered'! ;-)

Greg

- Original Message -
From: cdtuc...@cox.net
To: Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com; Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Again Where is Michael blood. A head stone is clearly a man made structure
at least as much as a mail box is. Actually you can not reside in a mail
box but you can reside in a grave. So, if a mailbox qualifies then certainly
a final resting place applies. Carl

Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com wrote:

Steve,

I've already been shot down on this one. My cemetery stone, which as you
know cause you were there, was literally found on a grave mound and it
didn't qualify as a hammer. So I don't think too many here will accept
your wife's stone as a hammer. However, if they do I'm pretty sure we
could sell them for 50% more!!

p.s. Maybe I should call mine the Head Stone since yours is the Dam
Hammer

Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote:

From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
To: meteorh...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
Respectfully Steve,

I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam would
qualify as a hammer. Think of all of the stones that hits
roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man made), etc. I
personally think this whole hammer qualification has gotten
out of hand.

On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she did a
'dam(n)' nice job finding some!!

Best regards,
Greg

Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

- Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Hey Guys,

A special congrats goes out to my wife Qynne who
found one of those dam
hammer stones!

Literally, the rock hit an earthen dam of a
stock pond near West. And not
only that, it is a 100% crusted oriented
specimen as well.

6.1 grams.

Photos here: http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/

Steve Arnold
Arkansas

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops -
Starting at $479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


My next video will be on the definition of Hammers and the sound track will 
be by(you guessed it) MC Hammer. It's Hammer Time!!!


Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v


--- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

 From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
 Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 11:00 AM
 Again Where is Michael blood. A head
 stone is clearly a man made structure at least as much as a
 mail box is. Actually you can not reside  in a mail box
 but you can reside in a grave. So, if a mailbox qualifies
 then certainly a final resting place applies. Carl
 
  Ruben Garcia meteoritem...@yahoo.com
 wrote: 
  
  Steve,
  
  I've already been shot down on this one. My cemetery
 stone, which as you know cause you were there, was
 literally found on a grave mound and it didn't qualify as a
 hammer. So I don't think too many here will accept your
 wife's stone as a hammer. However, if they do I'm pretty
 sure we could sell them for 50% more!!
  
  p.s. Maybe I should call mine the Head Stone since
 yours is the Dam Hammer 
  
  
  Ruben Garcia
  Phoenix, Arizona
  Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
  Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
  Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v
  
  
  --- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
 wrote:
  
   From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
   Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
   To: meteorh...@aol.com
   Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
   Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
   Respectfully Steve,
   
   I do not think a meteorite hitting an earthen dam
 would
   qualify as a hammer. Think of all of the stones
 that hits
   roads (dirt or paved), crop field (man made),
 etc. I
   personally think this whole hammer qualification
 has gotten
   out of hand.
   
   On the other hand, congratulations to Qynne, she
 did a
   'dam(n)' nice job finding some!!
   
   Best regards,
   Greg
   
   
   Greg Hupe
   The Hupe Collection
   NaturesVault (eBay)
   gmh...@htn.net
   www.LunarRock.com
   IMCA 3163
   
   Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
   http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
   
   
   
   - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com
   To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
   Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:31 PM
   Subject: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
   
   
Hey Guys,

A special congrats goes out to  my wife
 Qynne who
   found one of those dam
hammer stones!

Literally,  the rock hit an earthen dam of
 a
   stock pond near West.   And not
only  that, it is a 100% crusted oriented
   specimen as well.

6.1  grams.

Photos here:   http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/

Steve  Arnold
Arkansas

**Great Deals on Dell 15
 Laptops -
   Starting at $479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
   
 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
   
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Greg,

I think all meteorite specimens have a story.

Some of the stories are lost. Some are preserved.

Some stories will be more appealing to some people than they will be to
others.

If a rock hit a pond, or a dam, or a car or a road, etc. it is all part of
that rock's story. Some people will appreciate a rock more depending on the
particular story (history) it has. Some people will value such a rock more,
and some will even pay more.

I think my job is to tell the story, and let the buyers value them the way
they personally choose.

Is it a hammer? I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I think that it being found just a few feet from water, where it
would have been lost forever, is kind of cool. If you are a bull dozer
operator, you might highly value that a rock impacted a man made dam. If you
live in Texas, you might like it. If you like oriented stones you might like
it. Lots of reasons to like it.

As a marketer, I am just trying to help people justify why they want to pay
a price for a rock I am selling. That's all.

Steve

In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:05:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
stanleygr...@yahoo.com writes:
All:

Doesn’t a ‘Hammer’ have to do damage to anything living (person, dog or
animal) or any made-made object? If a meteorite hit a tree and scraped off
some
of the bark – would that be a hammer? However, if a large meteorite struck
a sidewalk and chipped (damaged) it, then that may be considered a hammer.

Thanks,

Greg Stanley

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Darren Garrison

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:57:59 -0400, you wrote:

Michael Blood has an opinion, not a rule. If a meteorite lands in my yard or 
a baseball field does it qualify as a hammer since these places were man 
made? Over use of a term for marketing (not saying Steve had done this here) 
is simply stupid!

IMHO, the fault lies not in the use of the term, but the existance of it.  The
fact that you can pick and choose which human created, human maintained objects
(which would quickly fall into disrepair and soon after fall apart without
peirodic maintainance) qualify as hammer worthy and which don't are the fault
of the ambiguity of the term, not of those using the term.  Or else, someone
needs to compound an official, authoritative list of what an artifact needs to
be built from before something hitting it can become a hammering.  And the shape
of the thing would have to be accounted for, too-- if a earthern dam doesn't
count, how about a mud-roofed hut somewhere?
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Farmer


Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and congrats on the stone. 

But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is nothing more than a pile 
of dirt. Carl seems to think that anything touched by man would make a 
meteorite a hammer stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this 
discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and watch my business go 
down the drain by trying to lump every stone as a hammer. I know of one hammer 
in West, a 124 gram stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the yard. The 
homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded in it. I am still 
trying to buy the stone, but the owner has money and really has no interest in 
selling it. That is a hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I know of from 
West, that is definitive.

We can not allow people to continue to demean meteorites by attempting to say 
that dirt roads and driveways make hammer stones. 
Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you have a hammer. 
An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage could 
be done to it. A stone landing in the dirt 20 feet away but not on the dam is 
no different that a stone on the dam.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

 From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:01 PM
 In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33
 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
 meteorite...@yahoo.com
 writes:
 
 Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a
 hammer.  
 
 .
 
 Mike and all,
 
 While I will leave the interpretation of  hammer up
 to the beholder, the 
 post was indeed more of a joke, or double  entendre
 .  But it did hit the dam.  
 And my congrats going out to my  wife was not a
 joke, that was sincere. 
 
 I am NOT asking a premium on this  rock above any of
 the others I am selling, 
 just because it hit the dam.   
 
 Although since it was found AFTER the heavy rains, I am
 actually  discounting 
 it below what I would be selling it for if it was picked up
 earlier,  as I am 
 with all the Post-rain recovery specimens.  
 
 Steve
  
 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
 $479 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:14:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
cdtuc...@cox.net writes:
Again,
Where is Michael? A mound is a structure  specifically designed to function 
as such. And Steve, I would like to buy the  Dam hammer as I think Blood will 
rule in it's favor. How much?  Carl
Carl,
.


Carl,
 
That rock is on hold as another customer was asking to look at the photos  
I just took of it.  If he doesn't want it, I will give you next dibs on  it.

Thanks,
Steve
 
**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Hello Steve,

I agree with telling the true story behind a meteorite's recovery is 
valuable and everyone appreciates that. I think because of one person's 
extreme desire to collect AND sell hammers (Michael Blood, and the founder 
of the term 'hammer'), does not make that person the authority to start 
adding all of these ridiculous qualifications to the table (or with the help 
of other's). I personally think it cheapens the whole niche, and I am not 
only talking financially.


Adding trees, dams, mounds, playfields, lawns and other man-made or touched 
places is reaching to an extreme, and yes, it does cheapen the true 
smashers. If these places were accepted as hammers, why not add ALL 
meteorites as they ALL go through the ozone layer, which is man-made??!


Now, what does everyone think when I say all meteorites are falls, witnessed 
or found? That should bring out the rest!


This whole conversation is simply, Smashing!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




- Original Message - 
From: meteorh...@aol.com

To: stanleygr...@yahoo.com; gmh...@htn.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Greg,

I think all meteorite specimens have a story.

Some of  the stories are lost.  Some are preserved.

Some stories will be more  appealing to some people than they will be to
others.

If a rock hit a  pond, or a dam, or a car or a road, etc. it is all part of
that rock's  story.   Some people will appreciate a rock more depending on 
the
particular story (history) it has.  Some people will value such a rock 
more,

and some will even pay more.

I think my job is to tell the story,  and let the buyers value them the way
they personally choose.

Is it a  hammer?  I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I  think that it being found just a few feet from water, where 
it

would have been  lost forever, is kind of cool.  If you are a bull dozer
operator, you might  highly value that a rock impacted a man made dam.  If 
you
live in Texas,  you might like it.  If you like oriented stones you might 
like

it.   Lots of reasons to like it.

As a marketer, I am just trying to help  people justify why they want to pay
a price for a rock I am selling.   That's all.

Steve

.

.


In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:05:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
stanleygr...@yahoo.com writes:
All:

Doesn’t a ‘Hammer’ have to do  damage to anything living (person, dog or
animal) or any made-made object?   If a meteorite hit a tree and scraped off 
some

of the bark – would that be a  hammer?  However, if a large meteorite struck
a sidewalk and chipped  (damaged) it, then that may be considered a hammer.

Thanks,

Greg  Stanley

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Okay Michael.
Now you added this to the equation;
--An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage
could be
done to it.
Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have photos to prove it???
Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must be done then lets see
the damage?
And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is not going to send
your business down the drain unless you let it. Everyone seems to have an
opinion here but the use of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled for. Michael
Blood will clear this up without any name calling.
I hope. Carl

-- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com wrote:

Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and congrats on the stone.

But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is nothing more than a
pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that anything touched by man would make a
meteorite a hammer stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this
discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and watch my business go
down the drain by trying to lump every stone as a hammer. I know of one
hammer in West, a 124 gram stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the
yard. The homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded in it. I
am still trying to buy the stone, but the owner has money and really has no
interest in selling it. That is a hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I
know of from West, that is definitive.

We can not allow people to continue to demean meteorites by attempting to say
that dirt roads and driveways make hammer stones.
Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you have a hammer.
An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage could
be done to it. A stone landing in the dirt 20 feet away but not on the dam is
no different that a stone on the dam.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:01 PM
In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33
P.M. Central Daylight Time,
meteorite...@yahoo.com
writes:

Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a
hammer.

Mike and all,

While I will leave the interpretation of hammer up
to the beholder, the
post was indeed more of a joke, or double entendre
. But it did hit the dam.
And my congrats going out to my wife was not a
joke, that was sincere.

I am NOT asking a premium on this rock above any of
the others I am selling,
just because it hit the dam.

Although since it was found AFTER the heavy rains, I am
actually discounting
it below what I would be selling it for if it was picked up
earlier, as I am
with all the Post-rain recovery specimens.

Steve

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
$479
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:28:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
gmh...@htn.net writes:
Adding trees, dams, mounds, playfields, lawns and  other man-made or touched 
places is reaching to an extreme, and yes, it  does cheapen the true 
smashers. 

.
Greg,

I found two  specimens in an Indian Camp Site with arrow points around, and 
Qynne found one  in a different Indian Camp Site,  next to where I found a real 
cool  flint chisel. 

How is that for extreme?  An Ancient Indian Yard  Hammer.

I also found some specimens near where I found some dinosaur  bones too.  So 
how about a Dino Grave Hammer for the list?

Yes, it  gets ridiculous.  
 
But I just like the sound of Dam Hammer damn it!

OK, I will go  back to my Photobucket and change the names to Dam 
Non-Hammer just so people  will feel better.

I think civil conversations on these types of topics  are great.  It makes 
the M-list a good place to be.

Steve
 
**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Jeff Grossman

I'm going to further stir this up. In addition to my last comment, that
hammer should only refer to the offending stone that did damage, I
think there has to be a certain fame or notoriety associated with the
impact for it to be noteworthy enough for a special name like this.
Certainly, the larger Sylacauga stone is worthy of the term. Peekskill,
for the image of the mashed car that appeared everywhere. Benld is a
great one, for those of you who remember the FMNH exhibit. If one of the
Nakhla stones really got a dog or Valera got a cow, which everybody has
heard about, then sure, these are hammers. But a piddly piece of some
shower that dings a shingle on a roof? No way. It's still a subjective
term, but let's give it some force.

jeff

meteorh...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:28:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
gmh...@htn.net writes:
Adding trees, dams, mounds, playfields, lawns and other man-made or touched
places is reaching to an extreme, and yes, it does cheapen the true
smashers.

.
Greg,

I found two specimens in an Indian Camp Site with arrow points around, and
Qynne found one in a different Indian Camp Site, next to where I found a real
cool flint chisel.

How is that for extreme? An Ancient Indian Yard Hammer.

I also found some specimens near where I found some dinosaur bones too. So
how about a Dino Grave Hammer for the list?

Yes, it gets ridiculous.

But I just like the sound of Dam Hammer damn it!

OK, I will go back to my Photobucket and change the names to Dam
Non-Hammer just so people will feel better.

I think civil conversations on these types of topics are great. It makes
the M-list a good place to be.

Steve

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub

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US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Carl,

You wrote:
Everyone seems to have an opinion here but the use of the word stupid by
Greg is uncalled for. Michael Blood will clear this up without any name
calling.

In reply to what I wrote earlier:
...Over use of a term for marketing (not saying Steve had done this here)
is simply stupid! My opinion!

I did not call 'anyone' stupid. I said in 'my opinion' the over use of the
term for marketing is stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid

Take it for what it is worth, not meant to be an insult!
Greg
P.S. I think I am stupid for being drawn into continued conversation on this 
subject!



- Original Message - 
From: cdtuc...@cox.net
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorh...@aol.com; Michael 
Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer



Okay Michael.
Now you added this to the equation;
--An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage 
could be

done to it.
Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have photos to prove 
it???
Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must be done then 
lets see the damage?
And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is not going to 
send your business down the drain unless you let it. Everyone seems to 
have an opinion here but the use of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled 
for. Michael Blood will clear this up without any name calling.

I hope. Carl

-- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com wrote:


Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and congrats on the stone.

But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is nothing more than a 
pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that anything touched by man would make 
a meteorite a hammer stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I 
ignored this discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and 
watch my business go down the drain by trying to lump every stone as a 
hammer. I know of one hammer in West, a 124 gram stone hit a house, 
bounced off and landed in the yard. The homeowner picked it up and the 
stone has shingles embedded in it. I am still trying to buy the stone, 
but the owner has money and really has no interest in selling it. That is 
a hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I know of from West, that is 
definitive.


We can not allow people to continue to demean meteorites by attempting to 
say that dirt roads and driveways make hammer stones.

Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you have a hammer.
An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage 
could be done to it. A stone landing in the dirt 20 feet away but not on 
the dam is no different that a stone on the dam.


Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

 From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:01 PM
 In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33
 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
 meteorite...@yahoo.com
 writes:

 Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a
 hammer.

 .

 Mike and all,

 While I will leave the interpretation of hammer up
 to the beholder, the
 post was indeed more of a joke, or double entendre
 . But it did hit the dam.
 And my congrats going out to my wife was not a
 joke, that was sincere.

 I am NOT asking a premium on this rock above any of
 the others I am selling,
 just because it hit the dam.

 Although since it was found AFTER the heavy rains, I am
 actually discounting
 it below what I would be selling it for if it was picked up
 earlier, as I am
 with all the Post-rain recovery specimens.

 Steve

 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
 $479
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

After being bit by too many of those Texas Fire  Ants, I was hoping to find 
at least one squished ant on the bottom of one of my  finds, but alas, I never 
found the elusive Ant Hammer Stone.  

Steve



In a message dated 3/18/2009 2:04:39 P.M. Central  Daylight Time, 
jgross...@usgs.gov writes:
I'm going to further stir this  up.  In addition to my last comment, that 
hammer should only refer to  the offending stone that did damage, I 
think there has to be a certain fame  or notoriety associated with the 
impact for it to be noteworthy enough for a  special name like this.  
Certainly, the larger Sylacauga stone is  worthy of the term. Peekskill, 
for the image of the mashed car that appeared  everywhere.  Benld is a 
great one, for those of you who remember the  FMNH exhibit. If one of the 
Nakhla stones really got a dog or Valera got a  cow, which everybody has 
heard about, then sure, these are hammers.   But a piddly piece of some 
shower that dings a shingle on a roof?  No  way.  It's still a subjective 
term, but let's give it some  force.

jeff  

**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Martin Altmann

IMHO, the fault lies not in the use of the term, but the existance of it.
  
Darren, you hit the nail on the head -
You're a hammer!
Thank you for that.

Next step would be, to dissociate the hammer-concept from solely
meteorites and to extend it e.g. on hailstones, lightning strokes, birds,
airplanes, apples  pears, flower pots and roof tiles...and who says, that a
hammer as always to happen vertically?

and a new field of collecting is born. Hammer Collecting...
and then we can leave that kind of discussion to the expert collectors from
there and could later overtake their definitions.

Huh, here in Central-Europe most of the landscape, fields, meadows, forests
are shaped by men we have a huge potential of not yet revealed hammers
sitting in our cupboards.

Btw.
Are non-observed falls, so called finds also allowed to be called
hammers if they're found in the right place?



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren
Garrison
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. März 2009 20:14
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:57:59 -0400, you wrote:

Michael Blood has an opinion, not a rule. If a meteorite lands in my yard
or 
a baseball field does it qualify as a hammer since these places were man 
made? Over use of a term for marketing (not saying Steve had done this
here) 
is simply stupid!

IMHO, the fault lies not in the use of the term, but the existance of it.
The
fact that you can pick and choose which human created, human maintained
objects
(which would quickly fall into disrepair and soon after fall apart without
peirodic maintainance) qualify as hammer worthy and which don't are the
fault
of the ambiguity of the term, not of those using the term.  Or else, someone
needs to compound an official, authoritative list of what an artifact needs
to
be built from before something hitting it can become a hammering.  And the
shape
of the thing would have to be accounted for, too-- if a earthern dam doesn't
count, how about a mud-roofed hut somewhere?
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Darryl Pitt

Completely agree. And as previously mentioned, in the not too distant
future an ever increasing number of meteorite showers will contain a
stone that hits a roof.

On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

I'm going to further stir this up. In addition to my last comment,
that hammer should only refer to the offending stone that did
damage, I think there has to be a certain fame or notoriety
associated with the impact for it to be noteworthy enough for a
special name like this. Certainly, the larger Sylacauga stone is
worthy of the term. Peekskill, for the image of the mashed car that
appeared everywhere. Benld is a great one, for those of you who
remember the FMNH exhibit. If one of the Nakhla stones really got a
dog or Valera got a cow, which everybody has heard about, then sure,
these are hammers. But a piddly piece of some shower that dings a
shingle on a roof? No way. It's still a subjective term, but let's
give it some force.

jeff

meteorh...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/18/2009 1:28:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gmh...@htn.net
writes:
Adding trees, dams, mounds, playfields, lawns and other man-made
or touched places is reaching to an extreme, and yes, it does
cheapen the true smashers.

.
Greg,

I found two specimens in an Indian Camp Site with arrow points
around, and Qynne found one in a different Indian Camp Site, next
to where I found a real cool flint chisel.

How is that for extreme? An Ancient Indian Yard Hammer.

I also found some specimens near where I found some dinosaur bones
too. So how about a Dino Grave Hammer for the list?

Yes, it gets ridiculous. But I just like the sound of Dam
Hammer damn it!

OK, I will go back to my Photobucket and change the names to Dam
Non-Hammer just so people will feel better.

I think civil conversations on these types of topics are great.
It makes the M-list a good place to be.

Steve
**Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)
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--
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Matthias Bärmann


. and don't forget your genom sequential kit when go out hunting. A dead
sheep on the meadow, killed by a meteorite - wonderful, but: attention!
Could be good ol' Dolly (man-made = hammer = forget all your problems), but
usually a normal standard sheep (ram-made = ahm, non-hammer = hello ebay)
... delicate matter ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZk2uMrQBSQ

Best, Matthias

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


IMHO, the fault lies not in the use of the term, but the existance of it.

Darren, you hit the nail on the head -
You're a hammer!
Thank you for that.

Next step would be, to dissociate the hammer-concept from solely
meteorites and to extend it e.g. on hailstones, lightning strokes, birds,
airplanes, apples  pears, flower pots and roof tiles...and who says, that a
hammer as always to happen vertically?

and a new field of collecting is born. Hammer Collecting...
and then we can leave that kind of discussion to the expert collectors from
there and could later overtake their definitions.

Huh, here in Central-Europe most of the landscape, fields, meadows, forests
are shaped by men we have a huge potential of not yet revealed hammers
sitting in our cupboards.

Btw.
Are non-observed falls, so called finds also allowed to be called
hammers if they're found in the right place?



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren
Garrison
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. März 2009 20:14
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:57:59 -0400, you wrote:


Michael Blood has an opinion, not a rule. If a meteorite lands in my yard

or

a baseball field does it qualify as a hammer since these places were man
made? Over use of a term for marketing (not saying Steve had done this

here)

is simply stupid!


IMHO, the fault lies not in the use of the term, but the existance of it.
The
fact that you can pick and choose which human created, human maintained
objects
(which would quickly fall into disrepair and soon after fall apart without
peirodic maintainance) qualify as hammer worthy and which don't are the
fault
of the ambiguity of the term, not of those using the term.  Or else, someone
needs to compound an official, authoritative list of what an artifact needs
to
be built from before something hitting it can become a hammering.  And the
shape
of the thing would have to be accounted for, too-- if a earthern dam doesn't
count, how about a mud-roofed hut somewhere?
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Blood

Hi Carl, Steve, Greg and others -
I have explained my position and the response
Varied from ho hum to you're wrong to outright
Expressions of resentment and accusations of distortion
to commercially exploit and take advantage of people.
I've had enough.
My book on hammers is targeted for release
Absolutely no later than Tucson 2010. For those
Who may care what I have to say about it, they
Will have an opportunity to read about every hammer
Known, my definitions, etc.
For now I will say one thing people clearly have
forgotten is is that we collect primarily for fun. Telling
Others that their definition of fun is the wrong definition
Does not seem to be the mark of someone who plays well
With others. 
Best wishes, Michael


 From: cdtuc...@cox.net
 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:45:11 -0700
 To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne meteorh...@aol.com, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net
 Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 
 Steve,
 There is always someone to try and rain on your parade!
  I did not realize earthen Dams were not man made? I thought it was CLEAR that
 if it hits anything man made it is indeed a hammer? Where is Blood here?
 
 Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it one you purchased?  Is it the main
 mass? 
 Congrats either way. You are still the king.
 
 Carl Esparza
 IMCA 5829
 Meteoritemax


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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Blood

 we must get this under control
What is this, Germany!?
Get a grip!
some say tomato some say tomato (guess they
Are spelled the same way.
Michael

 From: Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Steve Arnold
 dealer/Qynne meteorh...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

 Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and congrats on the stone.

 But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is nothing more than a pile
 of dirt. Carl seems to think that anything touched by man would make a
 meteorite a hammer stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this
 discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and watch my business go
 down the drain by trying to lump every stone as a hammer. I know of one hammer
 in West, a 124 gram stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the yard. The
 homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded in it. I am still
 trying to buy the stone, but the owner has money and really has no interest in
 selling it. That is a hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I know of from
 West, that is definitive.

 We can not allow people to continue to demean meteorites by attempting to say
 that dirt roads and driveways make hammer stones.
 Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you have a hammer.
 An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No damage could
 be done to it. A stone landing in the dirt 20 feet away but not on the dam is
 no different that a stone on the dam.

 Michael Farmer

 --- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

 From: meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:01 PM
 In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33
 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
 meteorite...@yahoo.com
 writes:

 Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it a
 hammer.  

 .

 Mike and all,

 While I will leave the interpretation of  hammer up
 to the beholder, the
 post was indeed more of a joke, or double  entendre
 .  But it did hit the dam. 
 And my congrats going out to my  wife was not a
 joke, that was sincere.

 I am NOT asking a premium on this  rock above any of
 the others I am selling,
 just because it hit the dam.   

 Although since it was found AFTER the heavy rains, I am
 actually  discounting
 it below what I would be selling it for if it was picked up
 earlier,  as I am
 with all the Post-rain recovery specimens. 

 Steve

 **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at
 $479 
 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433363x1201394532/aol?redir=http
 :%2F%2Fad.doub
 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B212935224%3B34245239%3Bb)

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Fries, Marc D

My two cents, Ocause what the hell, eh?  We¹re up to several dollars by now.

Call whatever you want a hammer, because I don¹t think anyone will ever
agree on a ³lower cut-off level of importance² for a hammer-worthy target.
Just include a description of whatever the ³hammer² hit, and let the buyer
decide if he/she wants to pay two/five/a million times as much because it
landed on a roof or a footprint or discarded Snickers wrapper or an [insert
favorite item of monumental importance here].

Actually, I¹d like to see a hammer that actually hit a hammer.  I call dibs.

Cheers,
MDF


On 3/18/09 1:36 PM, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote:

 Hi Carl, Steve, Greg and others -
 I have explained my position and the response
 Varied from ho hum to you're wrong to outright
 Expressions of resentment and accusations of distortion
 to commercially exploit and take advantage of people.
 I've had enough.
 My book on hammers is targeted for release
 Absolutely no later than Tucson 2010. For those
 Who may care what I have to say about it, they
 Will have an opportunity to read about every hammer
 Known, my definitions, etc.
 For now I will say one thing people clearly have
 forgotten is is that we collect primarily for fun. Telling
 Others that their definition of fun is the wrong definition
 Does not seem to be the mark of someone who plays well
 With others.
 Best wishes, Michael
 
 
 From: cdtuc...@cox.net
 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:45:11 -0700
 To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne meteorh...@aol.com, Greg Hupe
 gmh...@htn.net
 Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 
 Steve,
 There is always someone to try and rain on your parade!
  I did not realize earthen Dams were not man made? I thought it was CLEAR
 that
 if it hits anything man made it is indeed a hammer? Where is Blood here?
 
 Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it one you purchased?  Is it the main
 mass?
 Congrats either way. You are still the king.
 
 Carl Esparza
 IMCA 5829
 Meteoritemax
 
 
 __
 http://www.meteoritecentral.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Carl 's



Hi Steve and others,

I like the sound of Dam Hammer myself. It would make a great ebay name or TV 
series. Some thoughts on the subject: Suppose a meteorite fragment struck the 
Hoover Dam and was recovered? Would that be considered a hammer or no? What 
about that West fragment you (Steve) found in a pile of cow crap. Did that 
hammer a cow pie or was that hammered by crap. Sorry.

Carl (the newbie)



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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Darren Garrison

On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:24:45 -0700, you wrote:

Suppose a meteorite fragment struck the Hoover Dam and was recovered? 
Would that be considered a hammer or no? 

See, that's the problem with a nebulous term.  There are lots of ways to build a
dam-- pile up dirt, use field stones (with some sort of sealant/mortar in the
gaps), use sand bags, use bricks, use logs (again, with a sealant), use poured
concrete...

Let's say, for the sake of argument, hitting a poured concrete dam (like the
Hoover) DOES make a hammer-- but hitting an earthen dam DOES NOT make a hammer.
Okay, that has established upper and lower limits of hammerdom-- but at what
point in the grade from dirt to concrete does the artificially-built dam become
artificial enough to be concidered a hammerable object?  When does the bloom
become Michael's tomato?
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Walter Branch


Guten Tag, Michael :-)

Hang in there.  Don't let 'em get to you.

Can't wait to read your book!  Of course, I will purchase an autographed 
copy.


I will now depart my computer to enjoy a good plate of spaghetti at the 
Olive Garden.


Hammer, hammer, hammer.

Wish you could join me!

(Hammer, hammer hammer..)

-Walter Branch
-
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net
To: cdtuc...@cox.net; Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne meteorh...@aol.com; 
Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net

Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer



Hi Carl, Steve, Greg and others -
   I have explained my position and the response
Varied from ho hum to you're wrong to outright
Expressions of resentment and accusations of distortion
to commercially exploit and take advantage of people.
   I've had enough.
   My book on hammers is targeted for release
Absolutely no later than Tucson 2010. For those
Who may care what I have to say about it, they
Will have an opportunity to read about every hammer
Known, my definitions, etc.
   For now I will say one thing people clearly have
forgotten is is that we collect primarily for fun. Telling
Others that their definition of fun is the wrong definition
Does not seem to be the mark of someone who plays well
With others.
   Best wishes, Michael



From: cdtuc...@cox.net
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:45:11 -0700
To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne meteorh...@aol.com, Greg Hupe 
gmh...@htn.net

Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Steve,
There is always someone to try and rain on your parade!
 I did not realize earthen Dams were not man made? I thought it was CLEAR 
that

if it hits anything man made it is indeed a hammer? Where is Blood here?

Did you find that 1673 gram piece or is it one you purchased?  Is it the 
main

mass?
Congrats either way. You are still the king.

Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.18/2009 - Release Date: 03/18/09 
07:17:00


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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Blood

Darreb wrote: at what
 point in the grade from dirt to concrete does the artificially-built dam
 become
 artificial enough to be concidered a hammerable object?  When does the bloom
 become Michael's tomato?

Hi Darren (and all),
I have a very precise response: The moment
It matters to someone.
---
This issue is a sad one to me. I recently lost a
Good friend over it - at least I think it was over this
Issue, I have a hard time telling because he emailed
Me he disapproved of my business practices and
didn't want to talk to me, and this was the topic
Under discussion at the time. So, I can only assume
It is over this very issue.
--
It's real simple folks: if it has meaning for you,
Great, if it doesn't have meaning for you, no problem.

The problem comes when people tell others what
SHOULD be considered this or that and whether
It SHOULD cost more or not, etc. If it costs more
Than it is worth to you, don't buy it. You do not have
To make up a scenario in your head about the dealer
Trying to rip you off.

I like hammers. Not everything another person
Has called a hammer seemed like a hammer to me and
Some things that are a hammer to me are not a hammer
To others. 

To me, a hammer is a fall wherein one or more
Individual meteorites strikes a man made artifact, animal
Or human. Not just the one, two or more stones in that
Fall that strike things (those are hammer stones) - but
The entire fall.

Many will see it this way - others obviously see it
As only those individual meteorites that struck the
Artifact/animal/person. I have never met a hammer collector
That did not value the specific hammer stone(s) more than
Other individuals in that fall, but there are many falls wherein
The hammer stone was lost. ie: Chiang-Khan  where many
Stones landed in a boat on the river. The fisherman, feeling
They were evil threw them overboard. A hammer collector
Can get one of the other individuals of that fall, but not one
Of the stones that fell into the boat (I only know of 2 falls that
Involve landing on a boat).

Anyway, this could go on forever. Embrace what has meaning
For you. Do not embrace what does not hold meaning for you -
But it would be nice if you didn't rain on the parade others are
Enjoying.
Best wishes, Michael


 From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net
 Reply-To: cyna...@charter.net
 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:33:49 -0500
 To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 
 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:24:45 -0700, you wrote:
 
 Suppose a meteorite fragment struck the Hoover Dam and was recovered?
 Would that be considered a hammer or no?
 
 See, that's the problem with a nebulous term.  There are lots of ways to build
 a
 dam-- pile up dirt, use field stones (with some sort of sealant/mortar in the
 gaps), use sand bags, use bricks, use logs (again, with a sealant), use poured
 concrete...
 
 Let's say, for the sake of argument, hitting a poured concrete dam (like the
 Hoover) DOES make a hammer-- but hitting an earthen dam DOES NOT make a
 hammer.
 Okay, that has established upper and lower limits of hammerdom-- but at what
 point in the grade from dirt to concrete does the artificially-built dam
 become
 artificial enough to be concidered a hammerable object?  When does the bloom
 become Michael's tomato?
 __
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 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Mark Crawford


Actually, it would make a great name for a meteorite ;-)

Carl 's wrote:
I like the sound of Dam Hammer myself. It would make a great ebay name or TV series. 



--
Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Michael Farmer


Carl, you are a major part of this problem.
For example, you still keep selling Carancas on ebay quoting them as Haag 
Collection pieces. This is an outright lie! Bob told me last year that he 
asked you to stop doing that. Haag went to Carancas as a partner of yours, he 
brought back all the material and gave you your share, then he sold me the rest 
of his share. Now, you pretend that all of the pieces are from the Haag 
collection, simply becuase he had possesion of them for a hew hours. This is a 
tactic that used-car salesmen use and it is not true.  You are trying to get 
more  by dropping Bob's name.

Now, this hammer issue is one and the same, a total crock of bullshit. Anyone 
with even the most simple common sense can tell when a meteorite impacts 
something that makes it stand out, then the hammer term makes sense. Hitting 
a dirt pile at a pond is BORING. Any collector who buys into that shit deserves 
to lose their money if they pay based on that being a hammer. As I said 
before, there is nothing wrong with giving as much data about where each stone 
was found and it is great that this particular piece was found by Steve's wife 
on a pond dam. If you try to sell me that piece 5 years from now, and try to 
get me to pay more for that fact, I will laugh you out of the house.
Now, if you have a housesmasher, I would be much more interested.
By the way, I have great photos of the West househitter and embedded shingle 
fragments in the stone. I am keeing the location secret, as I want the stone. 
There are at least  7 people on this list in my group who saw that stone.

If you have to explain why you consider the stone as a hammer, then it likely 
is not one. To scrape the bottom of the barrel in pretending every other stone 
a hammer is killing this business.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

 From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, meteorh...@aol.com, Michael Farmer 
 meteorite...@yahoo.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:34 PM
 Okay Michael.
 Now you added this to the equation;
 --An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just
 dirt. No damage could be 
 done to it.
 Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
 How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have
 photos to prove it???
 Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must
 be done then lets see the damage?
 And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is
 not going to send your business down the drain unless you
 let it. Everyone seems to have an opinion here but the use
 of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled for. Michael Blood
 will clear this up without any name calling. 
 I hope. Carl
 
  -- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
 wrote: 
  
  Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and
 congrats on the stone. 
  
  But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is
 nothing more than a pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that
 anything touched by man would make a meteorite a hammer
 stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this
 discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and
 watch my business go down the drain by trying to lump every
 stone as a hammer. I know of one hammer in West, a 124 gram
 stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the yard. The
 homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded
 in it. I am still trying to buy the stone, but the owner has
 money and really has no interest in selling it. That is a
 hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I know of from
 West, that is definitive.
  
  We can not allow people to continue to demean
 meteorites by attempting to say that dirt roads and
 driveways make hammer stones. 
  Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you
 have a hammer. 
  An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still
 just dirt. No damage could be done to it. A stone landing in
 the dirt 20 feet away but not on the dam is no different
 that a stone on the dam.
  
  Michael Farmer
  
  --- On Wed, 3/18/09, meteorh...@aol.com
 meteorh...@aol.com
 wrote:
  
   From: meteorh...@aol.com
 meteorh...@aol.com
   Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
   To: meteorite...@yahoo.com,
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
   Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:01 PM
   In a message dated 3/18/2009 12:50:33
   P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
   meteorite...@yahoo.com
   writes:
   
   Um, I hope this is a joke, as far as calling it
 a
   hammer.  
   
   .
   
   Mike and all,
   
   While I will leave the interpretation of 
 hammer up
   to the beholder, the 
   post was indeed more of a joke, or double 
 entendre
   .  But it did hit the dam.  
   And my congrats going out to my  wife was not
 a
   joke, that was sincere. 
   
   I am NOT asking a premium on this  rock above
 any of
   the others I am selling, 
   just because it hit the dam.   
   
   Although since it was found

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Hi all,
I agree completely with Darren! For the most part, I don't use the term 
Hammer when I sell one of my finds anyway. I'll use a description instead - 
This meteorite was found on a grave or hit a tree or yard. 

For those who've asked, my West meteorite found on a grave is not for sale as 
it was my very first West find. 



Ruben Garcia
Phoenix, Arizona
Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfrightp=v


--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net wrote:

 From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 3:33 PM
 On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:24:45 -0700,
 you wrote:
 
 Suppose a meteorite fragment struck the Hoover Dam and
 was recovered? 
 Would that be considered a hammer or no? 
 
 See, that's the problem with a nebulous term.  There
 are lots of ways to build a
 dam-- pile up dirt, use field stones (with some sort of
 sealant/mortar in the
 gaps), use sand bags, use bricks, use logs (again, with a
 sealant), use poured
 concrete...
 
 Let's say, for the sake of argument, hitting a poured
 concrete dam (like the
 Hoover) DOES make a hammer-- but hitting an earthen dam
 DOES NOT make a hammer.
 Okay, that has established upper and lower limits of
 hammerdom-- but at what
 point in the grade from dirt to concrete does the
 artificially-built dam become
 artificial enough to be concidered a hammerable
 object?  When does the bloom
 become Michael's tomato?
 __
 http://www.meteoritecentral.com
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 


  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Alexander Seidel

  we must get this under control
 What is this, Germany!?
 Get a grip!
 some say tomato some say tomato (guess they
 Are spelled the same way.
 Michael


Yes, Germany! Everything unter Kontrolle right now! :-)
Got that grip, just at this very moment,

Alex
Berlin/Germany


If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning
I'd hammer in the evening, all over this land
I'd hammer out danger, I'd hammer out a warning
I'd hammer out love between my brothers and my sisters all over this land

If I had a bell, I'd ring it in the morning
I'd ring it in the evening, all over this land
I'd ring it in danger, I'd ring out a warning
I'd ring in love between my brothers and my sisters all over this land

If I had a song, I'd sing it in the morning
I'd sing it in the evening, all over this land
I'd sing it in danger, I'd sing out a warning
I'd sing in love between my brothers and my sisters all over this land

Well I got a hammer and I got a bell
And I got a song to sing all over this land
It's the hammer of justice, it's the bell of freedom
It's the song about love between my brothers and my sisters all over this land
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Dave Gheesling

Mike  All,

Perhaps another simple way to look at this issue is this:
1) just tell the actual story and let it stand on its own merits,
2) call it a hammer or whatever else you like, but
3) make it ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR whether the actual specimen for sale did
whatever hitting that was associated with the fall or not.

The value of the story will be like water seeking its own level; it's when
there's a more than reasonable inference (note: I'm not saying implication,
which would suggest intent on the part of the seller) on the part of the
buyer that a stone picked up in the middle of a field is the one that hit,
for example, the house you describe below -- for lack of any attempt to
clarify to the contrary.

Best,

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Farmer
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:41 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorh...@aol.com;
cdtuc...@cox.net
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer


Carl, you are a major part of this problem.
For example, you still keep selling Carancas on ebay quoting them as Haag
Collection pieces. This is an outright lie! Bob told me last year that he
asked you to stop doing that. Haag went to Carancas as a partner of yours,
he brought back all the material and gave you your share, then he sold me
the rest of his share. Now, you pretend that all of the pieces are from the
Haag collection, simply becuase he had possesion of them for a hew hours.
This is a tactic that used-car salesmen use and it is not true.  You are
trying to get more  by dropping Bob's name.

Now, this hammer issue is one and the same, a total crock of bullshit.
Anyone with even the most simple common sense can tell when a meteorite
impacts something that makes it stand out, then the hammer term makes
sense. Hitting a dirt pile at a pond is BORING. Any collector who buys into
that shit deserves to lose their money if they pay based on that being a
hammer. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with giving as much data
about where each stone was found and it is great that this particular piece
was found by Steve's wife on a pond dam. If you try to sell me that piece 5
years from now, and try to get me to pay more for that fact, I will laugh
you out of the house.
Now, if you have a housesmasher, I would be much more interested.
By the way, I have great photos of the West househitter and embedded shingle
fragments in the stone. I am keeing the location secret, as I want the
stone. There are at least  7 people on this list in my group who saw that
stone.

If you have to explain why you consider the stone as a hammer, then it
likely is not one. To scrape the bottom of the barrel in pretending every
other stone a hammer is killing this business.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

 From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, meteorh...@aol.com, Michael 
 Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:34 PM Okay Michael.
 Now you added this to the equation;
 --An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just dirt. No 
 damage could be done to it.
 Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
 How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have photos to 
 prove it???
 Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must be done then 
 lets see the damage?
 And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is not going 
 to send your business down the drain unless you let it. Everyone seems 
 to have an opinion here but the use of the word stupid by Greg is 
 uncalled for. Michael Blood will clear this up without any name 
 calling.
 I hope. Carl
 
  -- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
 wrote: 
  
  Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and
 congrats on the stone. 
  
  But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is
 nothing more than a pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that anything 
 touched by man would make a meteorite a hammer stone. This is a 
 crock of crap, and while I ignored this discussion a couple of weeks 
 ago, I can not sit back and watch my business go down the drain by 
 trying to lump every stone as a hammer. I know of one hammer in West, 
 a 124 gram stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the yard. The 
 homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded in it. I am 
 still trying to buy the stone, but the owner has money and really has 
 no interest in selling it. That is a hammer stone. It is the only 
 hammer stone I know of from West, that is definitive.
  
  We can not allow people to continue to demean
 meteorites by attempting to say that dirt roads and driveways make 
 hammer stones.
  Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you
 have a hammer. 
  An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still
 just

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Meteorites USA

I have to agree with Mike. Use common sense, cut the crap definitions 
and stop trying to up-sell the public with bogus hammer claims. Leave 
the defining to the person who first used the term hammer.


If I offend anyone with these remarks I invite your wrath with open 
arms. Most people I'm sure would agree that a hammer is any single 
meteorite (NOT AN ENTIRE FALL) that hit an inanimate man-made object or 
structure, or living creature, humans included.


If it crashes into or through a roof? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a wall? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a car? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a building? HAMMER

If it lands on a golf course? NOT A HAMMER!
If it hits a golf cart? HAMMER

The point is this could go on forever. Let the buyer decide, and use 
common sense in your marketing. Don't fabricate or exaggerate. How hard 
is that to understand?


Legal definitions are the freaking problem (not the term) as too often 
these terms throw common sense to the wind and substitute it with BS!


Regards,
Eric




Michael Farmer wrote:

Carl, you are a major part of this problem.
For example, you still keep selling Carancas on ebay quoting them as Haag Collection 
pieces. This is an outright lie! Bob told me last year that he asked you to stop doing that. Haag 
went to Carancas as a partner of yours, he brought back all the material and gave you your share, 
then he sold me the rest of his share. Now, you pretend that all of the pieces are from the Haag 
collection, simply becuase he had possesion of them for a hew hours. This is a tactic that 
used-car salesmen use and it is not true.  You are trying to get more  by dropping 
Bob's name.

Now, this hammer issue is one and the same, a total crock of bullshit. Anyone with even the most 
simple common sense can tell when a meteorite impacts something that makes it stand out, then the 
hammer term makes sense. Hitting a dirt pile at a pond is BORING. Any collector who buys into 
that shit deserves to lose their money if they pay based on that being a hammer. As I said 
before, there is nothing wrong with giving as much data about where each stone was found and it is great that 
this particular piece was found by Steve's wife on a pond dam. If you try to sell me that piece 5 years from 
now, and try to get me to pay more for that fact, I will laugh you out of the house.
Now, if you have a housesmasher, I would be much more interested.
By the way, I have great photos of the West househitter and embedded shingle 
fragments in the stone. I am keeing the location secret, as I want the stone. 
There are at least  7 people on this list in my group who saw that stone.

If you have to explain why you consider the stone as a hammer, then it likely 
is not one. To scrape the bottom of the barrel in pretending every other stone 
a hammer is killing this business.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

  

From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, meteorh...@aol.com, Michael Farmer 
meteorite...@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:34 PM
Okay Michael.
Now you added this to the equation;
--An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just
dirt. No damage could be 
done to it.

Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have
photos to prove it???
Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must
be done then lets see the damage?
And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is
not going to send your business down the drain unless you
let it. Everyone seems to have an opinion here but the use
of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled for. Michael Blood
will clear this up without any name calling. 
I hope. Carl


 -- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
wrote: 


Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and
  
congrats on the stone. 


But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is
  

nothing more than a pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that
anything touched by man would make a meteorite a hammer
stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this
discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back and
watch my business go down the drain by trying to lump every
stone as a hammer. I know of one hammer in West, a 124 gram
stone hit a house, bounced off and landed in the yard. The
homeowner picked it up and the stone has shingles embedded
in it. I am still trying to buy the stone, but the owner has
money and really has no interest in selling it. That is a
hammer stone. It is the only hammer stone I know of from
West, that is definitive.


We can not allow people to continue to demean
  

meteorites by attempting to say that dirt roads and
driveways make hammer stones. 


Smash a car, computer printer, rooftop, or cow and you
  
have a hammer. 


An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

Eric, I don't know what you agree with but I sell with 100% honesty. I have no 
west to sell. I do not see how it serves Mike Farmer to rant like this. I am 
(was) a good customer of his. I have many meteorites from him. I think he must 
be crazy. Like you said . you are not stupid. You are not going to buy into 
this Hammer crap. Good for you. I don't either. I collect based on material. I 
don't even need another  ordinary chondrite.  from West or East or places 
between. 
Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829

 Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: 
 I have to agree with Mike. Use common sense, cut the crap definitions 
 and stop trying to up-sell the public with bogus hammer claims. Leave 
 the defining to the person who first used the term hammer.
 
 If I offend anyone with these remarks I invite your wrath with open 
 arms. Most people I'm sure would agree that a hammer is any single 
 meteorite (NOT AN ENTIRE FALL) that hit an inanimate man-made object or 
 structure, or living creature, humans included.
 
 If it crashes into or through a roof? HAMMER
 If it crashes into or through a wall? HAMMER
 If it crashes into or through a car? HAMMER
 If it crashes into or through a building? HAMMER
 
 If it lands on a golf course? NOT A HAMMER!
 If it hits a golf cart? HAMMER
 
 The point is this could go on forever. Let the buyer decide, and use 
 common sense in your marketing. Don't fabricate or exaggerate. How hard 
 is that to understand?
 
 Legal definitions are the freaking problem (not the term) as too often 
 these terms throw common sense to the wind and substitute it with BS!
 
 Regards,
 Eric
 
 
 
 
 Michael Farmer wrote:
  Carl, you are a major part of this problem.
  For example, you still keep selling Carancas on ebay quoting them as Haag 
  Collection pieces. This is an outright lie! Bob told me last year that he 
  asked you to stop doing that. Haag went to Carancas as a partner of yours, 
  he brought back all the material and gave you your share, then he sold me 
  the rest of his share. Now, you pretend that all of the pieces are from the 
  Haag collection, simply becuase he had possesion of them for a hew hours. 
  This is a tactic that used-car salesmen use and it is not true.  You are 
  trying to get more  by dropping Bob's name.
 
  Now, this hammer issue is one and the same, a total crock of bullshit. 
  Anyone with even the most simple common sense can tell when a meteorite 
  impacts something that makes it stand out, then the hammer term makes 
  sense. Hitting a dirt pile at a pond is BORING. Any collector who buys into 
  that shit deserves to lose their money if they pay based on that being a 
  hammer. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with giving as much data 
  about where each stone was found and it is great that this particular piece 
  was found by Steve's wife on a pond dam. If you try to sell me that piece 5 
  years from now, and try to get me to pay more for that fact, I will laugh 
  you out of the house.
  Now, if you have a housesmasher, I would be much more interested.
  By the way, I have great photos of the West househitter and embedded 
  shingle fragments in the stone. I am keeing the location secret, as I want 
  the stone. There are at least  7 people on this list in my group who saw 
  that stone.
 
  If you have to explain why you consider the stone as a hammer, then it 
  likely is not one. To scrape the bottom of the barrel in pretending every 
  other stone a hammer is killing this business.
 
  Michael Farmer
 
  --- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:
 

  From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, meteorh...@aol.com, Michael 
  Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
  Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:34 PM
  Okay Michael.
  Now you added this to the equation;
  --An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just
  dirt. No damage could be 
  done to it.
  Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
  How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have
  photos to prove it???
  Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must
  be done then lets see the damage?
  And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is
  not going to send your business down the drain unless you
  let it. Everyone seems to have an opinion here but the use
  of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled for. Michael Blood
  will clear this up without any name calling. 
  I hope. Carl
 
   -- Michael Farmer meteorite...@yahoo.com
  wrote: 
  
  Yes, I saw that the email was mostly a joke, and

  congrats on the stone. 
  
  But we must get this under control. A pile of dirt is

  nothing more than a pile of dirt. Carl seems to think that
  anything touched by man would make a meteorite a hammer
  stone. This is a crock of crap, and while I ignored this
  discussion a couple of weeks ago, I can not sit back

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread Meteorites USA


Hmmm... You make your own case, and change directions on a whim.

...Like you said . you are not stupid. You are not going to buy into this Hammer 
crap. Good for you. I don't either...

Don't put words in my mouth Carl... Don't pretend to know me or explain 
what I meant. And certainly don't try to change your story. Either 
that's what you were doing or you were being sarcastic, in which case 
the following statement still applies.


Car salesman are car salesman and people don't particularly like car 
salesman.


Regards,
Eric



cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:
Eric, I don't know what you agree with but I sell with 100% honesty. I have no west to sell. I do not see how it serves Mike Farmer to rant like this. I am (was) a good customer of his. I have many meteorites from him. I think he must be crazy. Like you said . you are not stupid. You are not going to buy into this Hammer crap. Good for you. I don't either. I collect based on material. I don't even need another  ordinary chondrite.  from West or East or places between. 
Carl Esparza

IMCA 5829

 Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: 
  
I have to agree with Mike. Use common sense, cut the crap definitions 
and stop trying to up-sell the public with bogus hammer claims. Leave 
the defining to the person who first used the term hammer.


If I offend anyone with these remarks I invite your wrath with open 
arms. Most people I'm sure would agree that a hammer is any single 
meteorite (NOT AN ENTIRE FALL) that hit an inanimate man-made object or 
structure, or living creature, humans included.


If it crashes into or through a roof? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a wall? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a car? HAMMER
If it crashes into or through a building? HAMMER

If it lands on a golf course? NOT A HAMMER!
If it hits a golf cart? HAMMER

The point is this could go on forever. Let the buyer decide, and use 
common sense in your marketing. Don't fabricate or exaggerate. How hard 
is that to understand?


Legal definitions are the freaking problem (not the term) as too often 
these terms throw common sense to the wind and substitute it with BS!


Regards,
Eric




Michael Farmer wrote:


Carl, you are a major part of this problem.
For example, you still keep selling Carancas on ebay quoting them as Haag Collection 
pieces. This is an outright lie! Bob told me last year that he asked you to stop doing that. Haag 
went to Carancas as a partner of yours, he brought back all the material and gave you your share, 
then he sold me the rest of his share. Now, you pretend that all of the pieces are from the Haag 
collection, simply becuase he had possesion of them for a hew hours. This is a tactic that 
used-car salesmen use and it is not true.  You are trying to get more  by dropping 
Bob's name.

Now, this hammer issue is one and the same, a total crock of bullshit. Anyone with even the most 
simple common sense can tell when a meteorite impacts something that makes it stand out, then the 
hammer term makes sense. Hitting a dirt pile at a pond is BORING. Any collector who buys into 
that shit deserves to lose their money if they pay based on that being a hammer. As I said 
before, there is nothing wrong with giving as much data about where each stone was found and it is great that 
this particular piece was found by Steve's wife on a pond dam. If you try to sell me that piece 5 years from 
now, and try to get me to pay more for that fact, I will laugh you out of the house.
Now, if you have a housesmasher, I would be much more interested.
By the way, I have great photos of the West househitter and embedded shingle 
fragments in the stone. I am keeing the location secret, as I want the stone. 
There are at least  7 people on this list in my group who saw that stone.

If you have to explain why you consider the stone as a hammer, then it likely 
is not one. To scrape the bottom of the barrel in pretending every other stone 
a hammer is killing this business.

Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

  
  

From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, meteorh...@aol.com, Michael Farmer 
meteorite...@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 12:34 PM
Okay Michael.
Now you added this to the equation;
--An earthen dam while yes, scraped by man, is still just
dirt. No damage could be 
done to it.

Now are you saying damage has to be done to it
How much damage was done to the guys roof and do you have
photos to prove it???
Not that we don't trust you but if you insist damage must
be done then lets see the damage?
And by the way if these are hammers or not hammers this is
not going to send your business down the drain unless you
let it. Everyone seems to have an opinion here but the use
of the word stupid by Greg is uncalled for. Michael Blood
will clear this up without any name calling. 
I hope. Carl


 -- Michael Farmer

Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer

2009-03-18 Thread John.L.Cabassi


G'Day List
Well, here we go again. After the last episode and my last post, my PC 
crashed.  So I was not going to get involved in this once upon a time thing 
or even a child's book. I wish all would leave the terminology where it 
belongs.. with the carpenters and construction workers, I don't see them 
ripping off new creative names that do not apply. But I can see it now.. 
Hey Ted, you gotta check this out. Just went to Home Depot, they've just 
been released. They call it a Bolide, supposed to drill holes faster than 
any drill.   Cool dude. I want one


Sorry to drive the nail home and no pun intended. IMPACTED I feel is more 
appropriate for what's being discussed than some irrelevant word.  With that 
said, and after all these emails, I have one thing to say


PLEASE, PLEASE TAZE ME BRO!!!

Cheers
John 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Dam Hammer